Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real killer.
C Lund
light <Go...@light.org> wrote:
> Atheism, not Religion, is the Real Killer
> Itąs time to abandon the mindlessly-repeated mantra that religious
> belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
> Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
> history.
This, of course, is bullshit.
> In recent years, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion
> represents, as End of Faith author Sam Harris puts it, łthe most potent
> source of human conflict, past and present.˛
Don't worry; overpopulation and insufficient resources will take the
#1 spot some time this century,
> Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. łThe Crusades
> slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the
> torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did
> bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries.˛
> In his best-seller The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins contends that most
> of the worldąs recent conflicts‹in the Middle East, in the Balkans, in
> Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, in Sri Lanka‹show the vitality of
> religionąs murderous impulse.
>
> The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes
> attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular
> fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the
> Salem Witch Trials. How many people were killed in those trials?
> Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event continues to
> haunt the liberal imagination.
You got off easy. The witch hunts of Europe were far worse.
> It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures
> rail against the Crusadersą and Inquisitorsą misdeeds of more than 500
> years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition
> appears to be around 5,000. Some historians contend that an additional
> 100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.
> These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much
> lower at the time. But even so, they are miniscule compared with the
> death tolls produced by the atheist despotisms of the twentieth century.
> In the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf
> Hitler, Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter
> that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist
> tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
First of all, Hitler was a "good christian". He hated jews because he
was a christian. If Hitler had been an atheist, there would not have
been a holocaust.
Secondly, even though Mao and Pol Pot were atheists (and Stalin
probably was), they didn't kill all those people because they were
atheists; they killed them because they were communists.
> The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its
> core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over
> self-determination and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in
> Israel may advance theological claims‹łGod gave us this land˛ and so
> forth‹but the conflict would remain essentially the same even without
> these religious motives. Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of
> the tension in Northern Ireland and the Balkans.
The Israel/Palestine conflict started as a secular conflict, where
ashkenazi jews flooded into an arab country in order to flee
persecution at the hands of european christians, but there is no
question that religion is now fueling the conflict. The israeli
colonists (aka "settlers") are taking land in the name of their god,
and you XPNs are supporting them in the name of *your* god. And the
arabs have turned to their god for help.
> Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism
> and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that
> Stalinism and Maoism were in reality łlittle more than a political
> religion.˛
And he is correct to do so. Communism as it was practiced had very
much in common with religion.
> As for Nazism, łwhile the hatred of Jews in Germany expressed
> itself in a predominantly secular way, it was a direct inheritance from
> medieval Christianity.˛ Indeed, łThe holocaust marked the culmination
> ofŠtwo thousand years of Christian fulminating against the Jews.˛
There can be no question that this is true.
> One finds the same inanities in Dawkinsąs work. Donąt be fooled by this
> rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism
> was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity
> did not produce a Hitler.
Medieval christianity was full of little Hitlers. Look at what
happened to the sephardic jews. Look at what Martin Luther wrote about
the jews.
> How can an ideology advanced by Hitler as a
> repudiation of Christianity, be a łculmination˛ of two thousand years of
> Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent
> slight-of-hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes
> committed in its name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the
> greater crimes committed in their name.
Atheism is simply an absence of belief in gods. That is all. Atheism
is not an ideology. It does not motivate anything.
(big snip)
> Dinesh D'Souza
This guy does not seem to be all there.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
Jamie Kahn Genet
Dude, I wouldn't bother - you're just wasting your breath. These
religious nuts can't deal with reason or logic. That's kinda the point.
Or they wouldn't believe in fantasies.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
C Lund
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> Dude, I wouldn't bother - you're just wasting your breath. These
> religious nuts can't deal with reason or logic. That's kinda the point.
> Or they wouldn't believe in fantasies.
I know I'll never change his mind, but I'll have some fun kicking him
around anyway... B)
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
light <Go...@light.org> wrote:
> In article
> <clund-8ADC70....@adsl-065-015-208-084.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net>
> > > In recent years, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion
> > > represents, as End of Faith author Sam Harris puts it, łthe most potent
> > > source of human conflict, past and present.˛
> > Don't worry; overpopulation and insufficient resources will take the
> > #1 spot some time this century,
> pestilence, mass poverty - need there be anything else?
With all that, there is no point in making things even worse by adding
religion to the mix.
Btw:
Terrorism: Often motivated by religion.
World War: Both the germans and the japanese were motivated by
religion.
Famine: The long-term consequences of avoiding contraceptives for
religious reasons.
Pestilence: Religious attitudes towards condoms and homosexuality
facilitate the spread of HIV.
> > You got off easy. The witch hunts of Europe were far worse.
> > First of all, Hitler was a "good christian". He hated jews because he
> > was a christian. If Hitler had been an atheist, there would not have
> > been a holocaust.
> That's because they were lead by the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic
> church - a false Christianity rooted in paganism.
Catholics are every bit as XPNs as the protestants and the orthodox.
You're only revealing your own bigotry by claiming anything else.
> > Secondly, even though Mao and Pol Pot were atheists (and Stalin
> > probably was), they didn't kill all those people because they were
> > atheists; they killed them because they were communists.
> You can't separate atheism and communism - they go hand in hand.
Bullshit. Pure bullshit. You obviously know nothing of either atheism
or communism. That is all there is to it.
> > The Israel/Palestine conflict started as a secular conflict, where
> > ashkenazi jews flooded into an arab country in order to flee
> > persecution at the hands of european christians, but there is no
> > question that religion is now fueling the conflict. The israeli
> > colonists (aka "settlers") are taking land in the name of their god,
> > and you XPNs are supporting them in the name of *your* god. And the
> > arabs have turned to their god for help.
> You are completely wrong.
No.
> The Jews have been giving up their land for
> peace ever since they became a nation and the Arabs have been
> encroaching on Jewish territory, bombing and killing Jews at every turn.
If the ashkenazi jews have truly been giving up land for peace, why
has Israel been growing ever since 1947?
It wasn't their land either, btw. The ashkenazi jews are europeans,
not people of the middle-east. The jews who lived in that region
before the alyiahs started were mizrahim / sephardim, and they had no
interest in a jewish state. Nor did the immigrants from Europe
consider much better than the local arabs.
> The Jewish military response has always been one of defense and
> prevention of their own destruction. The wall in Jerusalem was built to
> keep the Arabs from shooting into Jewish neighborhoods and sneaking in
> bombs. But, the Arabs claim the Jews have done it to destroy their
> economy and to drive them into poverty.
And they are right to do so.
> That's why this issue is being "settled" by external nations - they
> think they can solve the problem. But, it will not be solved until
> Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdom in Jerusalem.
You actually believe this rubbish?
> > > Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism
> > > and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that
> > > Stalinism and Maoism were in reality łlittle more than a political
> > > religion.˛
> > And he is correct to do so. Communism as it was practiced had very
> > much in common with religion.
> An atheistic religion of the worship of the state and the dictator
> leading the state.
But it wasn't atheism. Once you put some "flawless" leader up in the
place of a god (fex Stalin or Pol Pot), it is no longer atheism.
Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. Nothing more.
> There is a line of thinking that all Christians are Christians.
Of course.
> > > How can an ideology advanced by Hitler as a
> > > repudiation of Christianity, be a łculmination˛ of two thousand years of
> > > Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent
> > > slight-of-hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes
> > > committed in its name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the
> > > greater crimes committed in their name.
> > Atheism is simply an absence of belief in gods. That is all. Atheism
> > is not an ideology. It does not motivate anything.
> Atheism is a religion that has no God - it is a faith directed toward
> mankind - a humanist religion.
Atheism is a religion in the same way that *not* collecting stamps is
a hobby.
Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. Nothing more.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
Jamie Kahn Genet
Ah, well. Then is this a private party, or can anyone join in? :-D
MuahMan
> In article <914ef$48f11aa0$...@news.teranews.com>,> > <clund-8ADC70.10404011102...@adsl-065-015-208-084.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net>
> > > > In recent years, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion
> > > > religion.²
> > > And he is correct to do so. Communism as it was practiced had very
> > > much in common with religion.
> > An atheistic religion of the worship of the state and the dictator
> > leading the state.
>
> But it wasn't atheism. Once you put some "flawless" leader up in the
> place of a god (fex Stalin or Pol Pot), it is no longer atheism.
>
> Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. Nothing more.
>
> > There is a line of thinking that all Christians are Christians.
>
> Of course.
>
> > > > How can an ideology advanced by Hitler as a
> > > > Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent
> > > > slight-of-hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes
> > > > committed in its name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the
> > > > greater crimes committed in their name.
> > > Atheism is simply an absence of belief in gods. That is all. Atheism
> > > is not an ideology. It does not motivate anything.
> > Atheism is a religion that has no God - it is a faith directed toward
> > mankind - a humanist religion.
>
> Atheism is a religion in the same way that *not* collecting stamps is
> a hobby.
>
> Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. Nothing more.
>
> --
> C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
Terrible analogy. Stamps can be held, seen, etc.
Atheism is a religon just like the rest.
Jamie Kahn Genet
[snip]
> What I believe is not rubbish but the blasphemous lies that you spew out
> in all your posts certainly is and I will waste no more time trying to
> convince you of anything.
Promise? Really? YAAAAAAY! WOOT!
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article
> <clund-6B42BA....@adsl-065-015-208-084.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net>
> ,
> You're not kicking me around - you are tying a noose around your neck
> and you will realize that one day - God will not be mocked.
Fear, huh? That's why we should believe in superstitious bullshit? Fear?
LOL!
> And, as I said in my previous post - I'm done with you because some
> people are toxic and you are one of them.
*mocks you and everything you blindly believe in defiance of reality,
logic and reason* :-)
C Lund
light <Go...@light.org> wrote:
> In article
> <clund-6B42BA....@adsl-065-015-208-084.sip.ilm.bellsouth.net>
> ,
> C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> and you will realize that one day - God will not be mocked.
Your god is a monster.
> And, as I said in my previous post - I'm done with you because some
> people are toxic and you are one of them.
Dude, that god-thing you worship is toxic.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
>
> > In article <1iop2z4.z49olk1vx49x1N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > > C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > Dude, I wouldn't bother - you're just wasting your breath. These
> > > religious nuts can't deal with reason or logic. That's kinda the point.
> > > Or they wouldn't believe in fantasies.
> >
> > I know I'll never change his mind, but I'll have some fun kicking him
> > around anyway... B)
>
> Ah, well. Then is this a private party, or can anyone join in? :-D
Well, it's a public forum. B)
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
> > > And before that more terrorism, economic collapse, world war, famine,
> > > pestilence, mass poverty - need there be anything else?
> > With all that, there is no point in making things even worse by adding
> > religion to the mix.
> > Btw:
> because you blame them for all the trouble of the world.
I don't blame religion for all the troubles of the world. Stop lying,
and stop playing martyr.
> You are actually quite ignorant of many facts, often wrong and way off
> the mark on just about everything.
I could say the same about you ã and I'd be right.
> I don't have any more time to waste arguing with you.
Yet you spent the time answering this post?
> > Terrorism: Often motivated by religion.
> We are in the age of grace brought in by the first coming of Jesus.
> There is a time coming when the age will end and a time of judgment will
> come on the earth - that time is upon us.
> The Jews are more than justified in blowing the Arab nations off the
> face of the earth but not the other way around.
Why not?
> But, they have shown
> remarkable restraint. Why? Because of the restraining influence of God
> and other nations but also because most of the Jews want to live in
> peace.
Most jews, yes. But not the zionists, and they're the ones who're
running the show down there.
> It is the Arabs who are always stirring up the trouble.
You've never heard of the "settlers", have you?
> > World War: Both the germans and the japanese were motivated by
> > religion.
> True - many of the Nazis, including Hitler were Satanists and the
> Japanese worshiped their emperor - both of them false gods.
Hitler worshipped the same god you worship.
> > Famine: The long-term consequences of avoiding contraceptives for
> > religious reasons.
> Famine is not primarily caused by too many people.
It is the result of there being more people in one place than there is
food to feed.
> Besides, many nations do not use contraception and it has nothing to do
> with religion - the nations of Africa, India, Singapore, Malaysia and
> many others.
And all your examples are dominated by religions that frown on the use
of contraceptives. In Africa, christians and muslims go around telling
people that condoms don't help at all and are infused with HIV and
other lies.
> > Pestilence: Religious attitudes towards condoms and homosexuality
> > facilitate the spread of HIV.
> Religious attitudes doesn't spread aids - sex with infected partners,
> oral and anal sex does.
But put on a condom and the problem will become irrelevant.
> And some even say that aids was a lab-created
> virus that was injected into homosexual men in the form of vaccinations
> many years ago - this plan was set in motion by government agencies to
> destroy the minuscule homosexual population.
This, of course, is BS.
> > > The Jews have been giving up their land for
> > > peace ever since they became a nation and the Arabs have been
> > > encroaching on Jewish territory, bombing and killing Jews at every turn.
> > If the ashkenazi jews have truly been giving up land for peace, why
> > has Israel been growing ever since 1947?
> Now you show how little you know. It hasn't been growing in terms of
> the size and amount of land, but it has been growing in population.
Yes, Israel has been growing in terms of land. This map shows how
little *you* know:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/img/photos/olmertmaps/olmert_plan_maps
.jpg
> I
> know - I've been there and the people are packed into Tel Aviv and
> Jerusalem. Settlements are growing up all over the country, even in the
> deserts.
And this proves my point. Those "settlements" aren't in Israel;
they're in Palestine.
> > It wasn't their land either, btw. The ashkenazi jews are europeans,
> > not people of the middle-east.
> The land was a gift from God - so it is the land of the true Jew by
> divine right.
Bullshit.
> A much larger area than they now hold.
I know. And that's why Israel will keep on growing until it has
swallowed all that land.
> Some say the Ashkenazi Jews are not true Jews at all.
Oh, they're jews. But they are european jews, not semitic jews.
> > > The Jewish military response has always been one of defense and
> > > prevention of their own destruction. The wall in Jerusalem was built to
> > > keep the Arabs from shooting into Jewish neighborhoods and sneaking in
> > > bombs. But, the Arabs claim the Jews have done it to destroy their
> > > economy and to drive them into poverty.
> > And they are right to do so.
> So, to you, it's okay for the Arab to shoot and bomb Jews but not okay
> for the Jews to protect themselves.
Here we go... ;p
The arabs are being invaded by foreigners. They have every right to
defend themselves and repel the invaders. Some invaders get killed?
That's too bad.
> You are a Jew hater - an
> anti-semite who would make Hitler proud.
And you're an immoral, obnoxious liar, just like the vast majority of
your fellow bible-thumpers.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
<f99f502b-2b80-4ca0...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Atheism is a religon just like the rest.
As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
MuahMan
> ,
> C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
>
> > In article <1iop2z4.z49olk1vx49x1N%jami...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > > C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > Dude, I wouldn't bother - you're just wasting your breath. These
> > > religious nuts can't deal with reason or logic. That's kinda the point.
> > > Or they wouldn't believe in fantasies.
>
> > I know I'll never change his mind, but I'll have some fun kicking him
> > around anyway... B)
>
> and you will realize that one day - God will not be mocked.
>
> people are toxic and you are one of them.
Why do you argue with Atheists? They are only atheists until they are
on their death bed.
They are just ignorant and scared of things they can't understand.
Perhaps God will even
show mercy to evil people like C Lund?
MuahMan
When he's on his death bed he will be BEGGING for God's mercy. Until
then he will probably live in blind ignorance thinking he's a god.
C Lund
<408072ca-880f-4f15...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why do you argue with Atheists? They are only atheists until they are
> on their death bed.
What makes you think we change then?
> They are just ignorant and scared of things they can't understand.
Nope. We're just too old to believe in silly children's stories.
> Perhaps God will even show mercy to evil people like C Lund?
Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
<536885f8-0fc9-4bb7...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
All we ever get from you is bullshit, pratt.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
MuahMan
> In article
>
> MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why do you argue with Atheists? They are only atheists until they are
> > on their death bed.
>
> What makes you think we change then?
I've lost two atheist family members to cancer in the past two years.
Both
became religous near the end. You will do the same even though you are
not man enough to admit it.
>
> > They are just ignorant and scared of things they can't understand.
>
> Nope. We're just too old to believe in silly children's stories.
not too old, too jaded and close minded.
>
> > Perhaps God will even show mercy to evil people like C Lund?
>
> Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
>
They are all the same one going by a different name.
> --
> C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
Alan Baker
<2092835e-0a68-4d0c...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 3:36 pm, C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > In article
> > <408072ca-880f-4f15-8240-3e6978414...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why do you argue with Atheists? They are only atheists until they are
> > > on their death bed.
> >
> > What makes you think we change then?
>
> I've lost two atheist family members to cancer in the past two years.
> Both
> became religous near the end. You will do the same even though you are
> not man enough to admit it.
Hilarity:
The guy who lives at home with his mom talking about what makes "man
enough"!
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
MuahMan
> In article
> <2092835e-0a68-4d0c-9a00-8e50565cd...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
I see the convicted rapist is back.
I have a feeling more tales of your criminal misdeeds are about
to..... oh nevermind. Lets keep the surprise.
Alan Baker is about to have a VERY bad week.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> On Oct 13, 3:36 pm, C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > In article
> > <408072ca-880f-4f15-8240-3e6978414...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why do you argue with Atheists? They are only atheists until they are
> > > on their death bed.
> >
> > What makes you think we change then?
>
> I've lost two atheist family members to cancer in the past two years.
> Both
> became religous near the end. You will do the same even though you are
> not man enough to admit it.
Wow! Fear of death used to convert people! What a lovely idea. Well,
sign me up! This sounds like a beautiful religion :-)
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article <1ioqxx4.jv9z6o1nuzokuN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
> > C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1iop2z4.z49olk1vx49x1N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > > > > C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > > Dude, I wouldn't bother - you're just wasting your breath. These
> > > > religious nuts can't deal with reason or logic. That's kinda the point.
> > > > Or they wouldn't believe in fantasies.
> > >
> > > I know I'll never change his mind, but I'll have some fun kicking him
> > > around anyway... B)
> >
> > Ah, well. Then is this a private party, or can anyone join in? :-D
>
> Well, it's a public forum. B)
*puts the boot in*
Jamie Kahn Genet
Why would he beg for mercy from something that isn't real? Or do you
have some proof you'd like to share with us. Oh wait... there is no
proof, is there? There never has been. Just ignorance, superstition, and
fear as per usual.
MuahMan
wrote:
I have no idea why people find religon on their deathbed and in fox
holes. It happens all the time and it will happen to you as well.
C Lund
> And, as I said in my previous post - I'm done with you because some
> people are toxic and you are one of them.
BTW: "Toxic people"? Is that a theist code-word for people who ask
difficult questions?
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
> > In article
> > <408072ca-880f-4f15-8240-3e6978414...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > on their death bed.
> > What makes you think we change then?
> I've lost two atheist family members to cancer in the past two years.
> Both became religous near the end.
So you have two examples of atheists who became irrational at the end.
BFD.
Assuming you're telling the truth, that is. You don't have much in the
way of credibility, pratt.
> You will do the same even though you are not man enough to admit it.
You have two examples. Hardly a statistically significant sample.
> > > They are just ignorant and scared of things they can't understand.
> > Nope. We're just too old to believe in silly children's stories.
> not too old, too jaded and close minded.
Wrong.
> > > Perhaps God will even show mercy to evil people like C Lund?
> > Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
> They are all the same one going by a different name.
So it's all the same whether I believe in Odin and Thor or GodnJebus?
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
<12a2d038-baa4-4344...@v53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker is about to have a VERY bad week.
Why is that? Are you going to post even more lies nobody care about?
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
C Lund
<48fd3d31-cf4e-4226...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have no idea why people find religon on their deathbed and in fox
> holes. It happens all the time and it will happen to you as well.
No, it happens some times. But the opposite can also happen.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
Jamie Kahn Genet
You bet it is. Religious fundamentalists find free thought and
expression supremely dangerous.
Jamie Kahn Genet
He's an arrogant prick, isn't he? Typical of religious nutters - they
can't just live and let live. They have to try to tell others how to
live their lives. Obviously they don't feel they lead by example. No, no
(which is a telling comment on their lives). Fear is what's needed...
John C. Randolph
> Atheism, not Religion, is the Real Killer
To be precise, it's obedience that is the killer. When people follow
leaders, whether they're ostensibly religious or secular, they become
willing to commit crimes on an industrial scale.
-jcr
MuahMan
wrote:
> C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > In article
> > MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have no idea why people find religon on their deathbed and in fox
> > > holes. It happens all the time and it will happen to you as well.
>
> > No, it happens some times. But the opposite can also happen.
>
> He's an arrogant prick, isn't he? Typical of religious nutters - they
> can't just live and let live. They have to try to tell others how to
> live their lives. Obviously they don't feel they lead by example. No, no
> (which is a telling comment on their lives). Fear is what's needed...
> --
> If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Really, I'm telling you how to live? I could care less if you have
sex with pigs. But in the end you will be begging some God for
mercy. Deal with it.
Alan Baker
<a8a6b1cd-0227-48a9...@42g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
In the present, you're so scared of what you don't understand, you have
to invent a mythical supernatural daddy to make you feel better.
C Lund
> Really, I'm telling you how to live? I could care less if you have
> sex with pigs. But in the end you will be begging some God for
> mercy. Deal with it.
We atheists aren't the ones who are so scared of reality that we have
to resort to invisible magical friends to help us deal with the real
world.
You've got issues.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
MuahMan
>
> - Show quoted text -
And you will be on your knees begging this mythical super daddy for
mercy. Especially given your evil past.
MuahMan
> In article
>
> MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Really, I'm telling you how to live? I could care less if you have
> > sex with pigs. But in the end you will be begging some God for
> > mercy. Deal with it.
>
> We atheists aren't the ones who are so scared of reality that we have
> to resort to invisible magical friends to help us deal with the real
> world.
>
> You've got issues.
>
> --
> C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
You are incredibly scared of reality. So much so you are in denial.
Probably one of the reason you use a fake computer instead of a real
PC. You don't like to deal in reality. The reality you are a closed
minded scared shitless religous whacko who will be begging a God for
mercy in the end times.
Alan Baker
<7000ab06-4741-481a...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, but no.
MuahMan
Alan Baker
<6cd51be2-cdf9-429e...@u75g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
Nope.
Look... ...your weakness is unlikely your fault, pratt-fall.
Your parents believed the fairy tale and taught it to you, and now
you're not strong enough to accept the idea that when you die, it's over.
No shame on you.
MuahMan
My parents didn't teach me that. They didn't need to.
You are too weak to realize you are completely flawed. You want to
think you are important but you are just another one of Gods toys. You
will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing your teeth begging like a small
infant when the time comes. You will beg this fairy tale for mercy.
Alan Baker
<6a09a4fe-1f4b-401e...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
Your parents were atheists, were they?
>
> You are too weak to realize you are completely flawed. You want to
> think you are important but you are just another one of Gods toys. You
> will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing your teeth begging like a small
> infant when the time comes. You will beg this fairy tale for mercy.
I don't think I'm important to anyone but myself and the people I know.
And sorry, but no.
Jamie Kahn Genet
The fear argument again. What a beautiful thing this religion must be if
fear is what's needed to believe.
MuahMan
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
The fear argument? LOL You are a big time liberal. What have I
said that was scary, please quote it.
I'm sorry you think you are a god an know that one doesn't exist. In
the end you will be utterly begging, and crying to whoever will listen
begging a God for mercy. You internet tough guys are funny.
Especially since you liberal internet tough guys are such loser
trailer trash that have never done a tought thing in your life, played
a sport, fought a fight, stood for anything, or contributed to the
world in any meaningful way.
Alan Baker
<f6ccfe46-51ab-4b65...@p49g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
Where does he suggest he thinks he's a god, Pratt-fall? Is that what
they taught you at Liberty U: to just make up arguments, so you can have
something you can succeed in arguing against?
Maybe that's why you live at home with your mom, huh?
MuahMan
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL
Poor Alan baker the rapist from Vancouver BC. So confused and closed
minded. Still can't admit he will be crying like a small child and
begging god for mercy at one point in his said evil deed doing life.
I don't know if there is a place in heaven for child molestors or not
but you had better hope so.
C Lund
<8fb90469-0330-4660...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is just stupid. Troll.
--
C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
Jamie Kahn Genet
> On Oct 15, 11:16 pm, jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
> wrote:
> > MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 15, 4:18 am, C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <a8a6b1cd-0227-48a9-bad0-621fc130c...@42g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > > MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Really, I'm telling you how to live? I could care less if you have
> > > > > sex with pigs. But in the end you will be begging some God for
> > > > > mercy. Deal with it.
> >
> > > > We atheists aren't the ones who are so scared of reality that we have
> > > > to resort to invisible magical friends to help us deal with the real
> > > > world.
> >
> > > > You've got issues.
> >
> > > > --
> > > > C Lund, folk.uio.no/clund/
> >
> > > You are incredibly scared of reality. So much so you are in denial.
> > > Probably one of the reason you use a fake computer instead of a real
> > > PC. You don't like to deal in reality. The reality you are a closed
> > > minded scared shitless religous whacko who will be begging a God for
> > > mercy in the end times.
"religous whacko"? LOL. I think you misunderstand where we stand on the
religion issue :-D
> > The fear argument again. What a beautiful thing this religion must be if
> > fear is what's needed to believe.
> > -- If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.-
> > Hide quoted text -
Hmmm... your Usenet client is broken - it's not stripping sigs.
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The fear argument? LOL You are a big time liberal. What have I
> said that was scary, please quote it.
Nothing you said was scary to me. Sometimes funny, more often sad - but
hardly scary :-D But you DID say that somehow I'd "be begging a God for
mercy in the end times." So - why would I want anything to do with
superstition in which belief is motivated by fear?
Also it seems pretty sad to me that most of you religious nutters
believe in an end of the world. Just sounds to me like another attempt
to scare the weak minded and ignorant into believing in superstitious
nonsense without any basis in fact.
> I'm sorry you think you are a god an know that one doesn't exist. In
> the end you will be utterly begging, and crying to whoever will listen
> begging a God for mercy.
Again with the fear :-D And right after trying to say you weren't trying
to be scary (though if you are it's a piss poor job you're doing at it).
And if I'm a god can I banish you? *waves hand at you* Bugger - no
lightening bolt! There must be trick to this... hold still, I'll get it
in a moment. I'll just ask Zeus...
> You internet tough guys are funny. Especially since you liberal internet
> tough guys are such loser trailer trash that have never done a tought
Interesting note here: the vast majority of teachers in higher
educational are liberals. Funny that...
> thing in your life, played a sport, fought a fight, stood for anything, or
> contributed to the world in any meaningful way.
I stand for reason, logic, and the belief that we can overcome pretty
differences and rivalries, and better ourselves. Right now I'll be
really impressed if we make it into the next century - especially with
nutcases like you running around.
OTOH you'd rather waste time competing in useless national rivalries
like either sport or war. More US and THEM attitude. Like that will help
anybody *shakes head*
The fact that you'd use violence as an example of character shows you
really have no understanding of what real character is.
You're the kind of violent, superstitious, fundamentalist, weak-minded
fool who holds the human race back. Give yourself a big pat on the back
- you've earned it.
MuahMan
LOL! You wanna be know it all atheists who think you are a God crack
me up. So tough now. You will literally shit yourself and piss
yourself one day. Drop to your knees and beg God for mercy. It would
particularly fun to watch you beg him for mercy after pretending to be
so smart that you don't need a god.
Alan Baker
light <Go...@light.org> wrote:
> In article
> <alangbaker-313B2...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Nope.
> >
> > Look... ...your weakness is unlikely your fault, pratt-fall.
> >
> > Your parents believed the fairy tale and taught it to you, and now
> > you're not strong enough to accept the idea that when you die, it's over.
> >
> > No shame on you.
>
> Ezekial 7:3 <snip>
Right. As I said: a fairy tale.
There are lots of them. Why is yours better than a Hindu's, or an
Australian aborgine's?
MuahMan
> In article <48f93f25$0$90271$14726...@news.sunsite.dk>,> > <alangbaker-313B2D.10440215102...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
> > Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > Nope.
>
> > > Look... ...your weakness is unlikely your fault, pratt-fall.
>
> > > Your parents believed the fairy tale and taught it to you, and now
> > > you're not strong enough to accept the idea that when you die, it's over.
>
> > > No shame on you.
>
> > Ezekial 7:3 <snip>
>
> Right. As I said: a fairy tale.
>
> There are lots of them. Why is yours better than a Hindu's, or an
> Australian aborgine's?
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
>
> - Show quoted text -
They are all worshipping the same God under a different name. You
worship a false god yourself. You worship Steve Jobs, and do what he
says when he says ALWAYS. Then you claim to be an atheist.
Alan Baker
<da1f5304-3261-4cb4...@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
Really?
The hindus -- who worship a pantheon of gods -- are worshipping the same
god?
LOL
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article <2008101412041375249-jcrnospam@nospammaccom>,
> Again, I have to agree with you. Blind obedience to any man or woman is
> against the God-given command to "test the spirits." We have to be
> discerning and willing to do the research and the "brain-work." Most
> people just hook on to something or someone that sounds good or looks
> good and follows them into oblivion.
> The only leader that can be trusted is God Himself.
LOL! So convienent! But you don't even see the irony... :-D
> And His word is on the pages of His book.
And you know this... how? I refer you to
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_research> to get you started on
your way.
> Anything else, is man-made.
>
> Of course, those who don't believe in God say that the Bible is man-made.
> Men wrote it down but God inspired it. That is learned through study,
> belief and faith that grows from communion with the Holy Spirit - and
> that is a gift from God.
But don't test anything of your beliefs.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article
> <alangbaker-829C1...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Hilarity:
> >
> > The guy who lives at home with his mom talking about what makes "man
> > enough"!
>
> There is no shame in living with Mom if he is taking care of her instead
> of "sponging" off of her. If he is a "gay boy" or a "playboy" living at
> home - shame on him. But, I suspect neither is true.
> Jesus and Paul were both celibates and there have been many more
> throughout history - there is no shame in that. Beethoven was said by
> some historians to have been one - other wanted to make him the made
> adulterous lover because of a few letter written to an unknown woman
> friend. Most of the world is obsessed with sex and those people are
> living in chains of their own making - and most don't even realize it.
OL - you're a homophobe too! Oh, that just caps it all off! LMAO! :-D
So fear basically rules your life, eh? Fear of your god. Fear of gay
people. Fear of anyone different that you. Even fear of sex it would
seem.
Thank you for doing a far, far better job than I ever could have to show
what you really are. Well, I can take the day off now. My work here is
done (by you) :-)
Jamie Kahn Genet
[snip]
> LOL! You wanna be know it all atheists who think you are a God crack
> me up. So tough now. You will literally shit yourself and piss
> yourself one day. Drop to your knees and beg God for mercy. It would
> particularly fun to watch you beg him for mercy after pretending to be
> so smart that you don't need a god.
Fear! Fear! Fear! (I wonder if you even see the hypocrisy in your sad
childish attempts to use fear to get people to believe in your religion?
I doubt it :-) )
Heh, logic and rational thought must really scare the crap out of you
:-D
Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
P.S. Why would I need a god? So I can not have to face up to reality? So
I can disregard facts and empirical testing and make decisions based on
fairytales (cause that's been shown to work well time and time again!
*sarcasm you won't comprehend because you ignore history and ideology is
all that matters to you*)? Because I have such disdain for anything and
everything in the real world that I can't 'believe' in something real
like humanity's potential or making the world a better place for future
generations? (sorry - I don't have that much disdain, unless we're
talking about gullible fools...)
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article
> <2092835e-0a68-4d0c...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 13, 3:36 pm, C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <408072ca-880f-4f15-8240-3e6978414...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
> > >
> >
> > They are all the same one going by a different name.
>
>
> I have to disagree with you there, Muah.
>
> And that is what makes followers of Yeshua (Jesus) so hated by many.
In fact it's usually your religion's hatred and persecution of different
people (e.g. gay people), and your unquestioning ideology in the face of
mountains of evidence to the contrary which leads to unnecessary
suffering (e.g. contraception). That's why people with the ability to
think and reason dislike you.
But continue to believe that you're just being persecuted because of
your beliefs. As with everything else in your life you will fail to use
logic and reason to determine your current position.
C Lund
light <Go...@light.org> wrote:
> In article
> <2092835e-0a68-4d0c...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 13, 3:36 pm, C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <408072ca-880f-4f15-8240-3e6978414...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
> > They are all the same one going by a different name.
> I have to disagree with you there, Muah.
> And that is what makes followers of Yeshua (Jesus) so hated by many.
So.. you don't think the crusades, the gas chambers, the torture, the
auto-dafés, and the blatant hypocrisy may have made some people
dislike you XPNs?
--
C Lund
MuahMan
wrote:
> In article <48fa28f1$0$90272$14726...@news.sunsite.dk>,> > <2092835e-0a68-4d0c-9a00-8e50565cd...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 13, 3:36 pm, C Lund <cl...@notam02SPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <408072ca-880f-4f15-8240-3e6978414...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
> > > They are all the same one going by a different name.
> > I have to disagree with you there, Muah.
> > And that is what makes followers of Yeshua (Jesus) so hated by many.
>
> So.. you don't think the crusades, the gas chambers, the torture, the
> auto-dafés, and the blatant hypocrisy may have made some people
> dislike you XPNs?
>
> --
> C Lund
Duh! A liberals should be tortured and put in gas chambers.
C Lund
<47c264f5-84a4-4c8a...@v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
MuahMan <mua...@gmail.com> wrote:
And there, "light," is why people dislike you christians.. ;)
--
C Lund
C Lund
> lsouth.net>,
> C Lund <christop...@getmailSPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
> > > > > Which god do you have in mind? There are hundreds to choose from.
> > > > They are all the same one going by a different name.
> > > I have to disagree with you there, Muah.
> > > And that is what makes followers of Yeshua (Jesus) so hated by many.
> > So.. you don't think the crusades, the gas chambers, the torture, the
> > auto-dafés, and the blatant hypocrisy may have made some people
> > dislike you XPNs?
> someday you will understand it.
> The crusades were carried out by order of the Roman Catholic Church.
The catholics are every bit at christian as you are.
> If
> you ever read the Bible and the teaching of Jesus, there is nothing on
> the pages that would justify them.
The god of the NT is the same god as the god of the OT ‹ otherwise,
why would you bother with the OT? And the OT makes it perfectly clear
that genocide is a good and moral thing when your god orders it. So is
slavery, rape, child abuse, and killing people of the "wrong" faith.
> The Roman Catholic Church is not a
> Christian religion - it claims to be, but it has pagan roots and has
> been consistently anti-semitic and anti-everyone that does not bow down
> and worship the Pope.
Again, the catholics are just as christian as any other flavour of
christianity. Furthermore, christianity itself has pagan roots ‹
including whatever sort of christianity you believe in.
This "they're not real christians" attitude of yours gave Europe
centuries of war. Even today, people are killing each other because of
this.
> The Nazis who carried out the holocaust and the torture were not
> Christians - they may have called themselves Christians - but there is
> no teaching in the Bible that they can use to back up or justify their
> acts.
Other than stuff like Joshua, you mean? The nazis were every bit as
christian as you are.
You can't turn your back on the nazis (and the catholics) without
turning your back on 2000 years of christian history. And it seems
slightly odd to me that "real" christians did not appear until after
WWWII.
> There are many people who call themselves Christians who don't always
> act like Christians - following the example and teaching of Christ.
But what are the teachings of your christ? That's entirely subjective,
you see.
> That includes most of us at one time or another. But, God will forgive
> us if we ask Him to and we truly repent or turn from our evil doing.
> Christians are supposed to love one another and be kind and loving to
> all people. Many of us do not and are not and when we don't live up to
> example of Christ we are persecuted and ridiculed - actually, we are
> persecuted and ridiculed moreso when we do sometimes.
BTW: Was Martin Luther, in your opinion, a "real" christian?
--
C Lund
C Lund
light <Go...@light.org> wrote:
> In article
> <christopher.lund-56...@adsl-065-015-208-084.sip.ilm.bel
> lsouth.net>,
> C Lund <christop...@getmailSPAMBLOCK.no> wrote:
>
> Come on Muah, please try to be a good example of the teachings of Christ
> if you are going to claim to be a follower. Hatred and belittling of
> others will gain very few converts to Christianity.
Oh, I wouldn't say that; it's how much of Europe, Africa, and the
Americas were converted to christianity.
--
C Lund
John C. Randolph
> In article <2008101412041375249-jcrnospam@nospammaccom>,
> John C. Randolph <jcr.n...@nospam.mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2008-10-10 20:34:25 -0700, light <Go...@light.org> said:
>>
>>> Atheism, not Religion, is the Real Killer
>>
>> To be precise, it's obedience that is the killer. When people follow
>> leaders, whether they're ostensibly religious or secular, they become
>> willing to commit crimes on an industrial scale.
>>
>> -jcr
>
> Again, I have to agree with you.
So you say...
> The only leader that can be trusted is God Himself.
...and then you go right off into the weeds again.
Your imaginary friend says whatever you want it to say. Follow it if
you want, but if you make any attempt to make me do so, then I'll tell
you to fuck off.
-jcr