Michael Digest, email.pdf edition
Sandman
is Michael (Snit) who has bombarded the group with incorrect information, which
this digest aims to clear up.
The background
Michael is questioning the PDF of the screenshot of the mail that Steve Mackay
received from him which later was one of the evidence that tied Michael to
having created sigmond as a sock puppet. Basically, Michael claims that the PDF
has been altered, lets examine that. The original of the PDF, as posted by
Steve Mackay is on <http://home.wi.rr.com/mackays/email.pdf>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD3E9B07.5BA3B%snit-nospam@cableone.n
et>
From: Snit <snit-...@cableone.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:32:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3E9B07.5BA3B%snit-...@cableone.net>
This is the first message where Michael claims to have dug up the old PDF from
his "backup drive". Note that the PDF, which is supposed to be coming from
Steve Mackay is on Michaels web space. He mentiones the "unverified" part (see
the sigmond FAQ for this part).
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.11.14.52.54.922000@hotmai
l.com>
From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:47:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.11....@hotmail.com>
Steve replies to that, and notes that Michaels version of "his" PDF is larger
then the original and is created on a Mac (Steve used a Windows box to create
the original).
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD3F80F0.5BC56%snit-nospam@cableone.n
et>
From: Snit <snit-...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:53:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3F80F0.5BC56%snit-...@cableone.net>
Michael asks Steve why *HE* changed the PDF, which of course he didn't, the
original is still on Steves server, the altered version is on Michaels server.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.11.16.04.00.141000@hotmai
l.com>
From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:54:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.11....@hotmail.com>
Steve replies and says he did no such thing and links to two screenshots about
the information of the two PDFs clearly displaying that one is made by Internet
Explorer for PC while the other is made by OmniGraffle on a Mac. Steve also
links to the web directory that holds his files and point to the modification
date which is June 13, not August 10 like the one Michael has.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD3F92B2.5BC82%snit-nospam@cableone.n
et>
From: Snit <snit-...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:09:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3F92B2.5BC82%snit-...@cableone.net>
Michael responds to say that he is concerned only with the "unverified" part of
the PDF, and whatever differences in the PDF Steve might find is irrelevant. He
claims it doesn't matter which one Steve uses.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD3F96B3.5BC8B%snit-nospam@cableone.n
et>
From: Snit <snit-...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:26:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3F96B3.5BC8B%snit-...@cableone.net>
Michael then posts to say that he has added both of Steves PDF's to his site,
but Steve hasn't had two PDFs, he has only had one, the original. Michael still
claims that Steve has altered the PDFs which is what accounts for the change of
size. Remember that the PDF with the different size originally came from
Michaels web space, not Steves.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.11.19.58.21.63000@hotmail
.com>
From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:53:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.11...@hotmail.com>
Steve replies by telling Michael that there isn't two versions of the PDF
coming from him. The one called "email.pdf" on Michaels web space is the
altered one and the one called "email-new.pdf" is in fact the original one,
from Steves site, now also on Michaels site.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD3FD100.5BD2B%snit-nospam@cableone.n
et>
From: Snit <snit-...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:34:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3FD100.5BD2B%snit-...@cableone.net>
Michael claims that both PDFs came from Steve, when this just isn't true. One
of the PDFs is different from the one on Steves site. Steve hasn't posted this
modified version, Michael has. Michael still claims he is focused on the word
"unverified".
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563000@hotmai
l.com>
From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:01:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.12....@hotmail.com>
Steve now posts a small summary of the PDFs where he has saved the two, by
Michael, modified version of his original PDF on his site, clearly stating them
to be Michales PDFs.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD4019A9.5BDB5%snit-nospam@cableone.n
et>
From: Snit <snit-...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:44:57 -0700
Subject: Caught Steve Mackay in *another* big lie
Message-id: <BD4019A9.5BDB5%snit-...@cableone.net>
Now Michael posts a new thread, called "Caught Steve Mackay in *another* big
lie" where he claims that one of the PDFs on Steves site is a forgery! The only
problem is that it's -Michaels- version of the PDF that is the forgery, the one
Michael has been posting on his site! He claims that the font for the IP number
is different - in his own PDF! The one Steve uploaded to his site to keep a
copy of Michaels alterations to the PDF. Note that this different font isn't
visible in the original version on Steves site.
Classic, Michael has done all the work to prove that he forged the PDF to look
edited.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3A2004081122085275249%stevemackay@hotma
ilcom>
From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:08:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Caught Steve Mackay in *another* big lie
Message-id: <2004081122085275249%stevemackay@hotmailcom>
Steve replies by saying same thing as above pretty much.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
wrote:
> <snip>
This digest is now posted to the site, http://csma.sandman.net with all
references and with images of the PDFs in question.
--
Sandman[.net]
Steve Mackay
I must say, you do some gorgeous HTML/graphics work. Your site looks awesome.
Sandman
Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >
> > This digest is now posted to the site, http://csma.sandman.net with all
> > references and with images of the PDFs in question.
>
> I must say, you do some gorgeous HTML/graphics work. Your site looks awesome.
Why thank you! Given that it is my profession, I sure hope my clients agree
with you. :)
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
on 8/12/04 1:24 AM:
LOL. You forgot where I broke into Steve M.'s web site and uploaded all the
proof there.
--
"If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law."
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://smallurl.com/?i=15235)
Sandman
Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
> LOL. You forgot where I broke into Steve M.'s web site and uploaded all the
> proof there.
Nopes, Steve even posted here about uploading your altered PDFs to his site.
It's even part of the digest you just responded to:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563000@hotmai
l.com>
From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:01:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.12....@hotmail.com>
Steve now posts a small summary of the PDFs where he has saved the two, by
Michael, modified versions of his original PDF on his site, clearly stating
them to be Michaels PDFs.
You will ignore this, of course, so you can continue your evasion technique.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
on 8/12/04 7:17 AM:
You forgot to account for Steve's time machine where he publishes "proof"
over 7 hours before the files had been created.
Sandman
Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
No need, since you created that file long before he posted the proof. You are
desperatly trying to obfuscate the modified date in the web server listing to
mean when the PDF was generated when it actually means when the file was
uploaded to the server.
It was you who created the forgery and you who tried to pin it on Steve. Look
at the digest over at csma.sandman.net with screenshots of the files on your
server and the original on Steves server and your PDF on Steves server.
You seem to think you're dealing with stupid people here, when many actually
know a thing or two about PDF's. And I suppose that was your first mistake,
thinking you could forge a PDF without it being noticable - as if a PDF was a
bitmap picture! A PDF contains vast amounts of information, and if one opens
your PDF and Steves original unaltered version of the PDF in Acrobat and run
the "Compare documents" it finds your added text right away.
I see no reason for you to try to "win" this, you're up against far more
intelligent people than yourself, and to cut your losses, just ignore the
entire thread as if it never existed, leave the group and never look back,
because here you'll ba haunted by your lies, forgeries and trolling for as long
as you remain in the group.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
on 8/12/04 8:10 AM:
> Look at the digest over at csma.sandman.net
Wow... wasn't it you who stated one sure sign of being a troll was to make
web sites with the intent to harass others.
Let me guess: that does not include your lie filled web site... right?
LOL... come on troll... post something *interesting*!
Blam
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in mr-2AA84C.16...@individual.net
> on 8/12/04 7:17 AM:
>
> > In article <BD40C6AF.5BE6E%snit-...@cableone.net>,
> > Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> LOL. You forgot where I broke into Steve M.'s web site and uploaded
> >> all the proof there.
> >
> > Nopes, Steve even posted here about uploading your altered PDFs to his
> > site.
> >
> > It's even part of the digest you just responded to:
> >
> >
> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.12...@hotmail.com>
> > From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:01:04 GMT
> > Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
> > Message-id: <pan.2004.08.12....@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Steve now posts a small summary of the PDFs where he has saved the two,
> > by Michael, modified versions of his original PDF on his site, clearly
> > stating them to be Michaels PDFs.
> >
> > You will ignore this, of course, so you can continue your evasion
> > technique.
>
> You forgot to account for Steve's time machine where he publishes "proof"
> over 7 hours before the files had been created.
No need for a time machine - the directory listing is clearly in GMT so
the files were posted at 11:32 PST, which is hours before his posting
$ telnet home.wi.rr.com 80
Trying 198.78.80.65...
Connected to home.wi.rr.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET /mackays/ HTTP/1.1
Host: home.wi.rr.com
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:18:16 GMT <--------------
Server: RRRPHP/9.4.2 (Xinu) FrontPage/4.0.4.3
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Content-Type: text/html
--
Sandman
<snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>> You forgot to account for Steve's time machine where he publishes
>>> "proof" over 7 hours before the files had been created.
>>
>> No need, since you created that file long before he posted the proof.
>> You are desperatly trying to obfuscate the modified date in the web
>> server listing to mean when the PDF was generated when it actually
>> means when the file was uploaded to the server.
>>
>> It was you who created the forgery and you who tried to pin it on
>> Steve. Look at the digest over at csma.sandman.net with screenshots
>> of the files on your server and the original on Steves server and
>> your PDF on Steves server.
>>
>> You seem to think you're dealing with stupid people here, when many
>> actually know a thing or two about PDF's. And I suppose that was your
>> first mistake, thinking you could forge a PDF without it being
>> noticable - as if a PDF was a bitmap picture! A PDF contains vast
>> amounts of information, and if one opens your PDF and Steves original
>> unaltered version of the PDF in Acrobat and run the "Compare
>> documents" it finds your added text right away.
>>
>> I see no reason for you to try to "win" this, you're up against far
>> more intelligent people than yourself, and to cut your losses, just
>> ignore the entire thread as if it never existed, leave the group and
>> never look back, because here you'll ba haunted by your lies,
>> forgeries and trolling for as long as you remain in the group.
>
> Wow... wasn't it you who stated one sure sign of being a troll was to
> make web sites with the intent to harass others.
Yes, as opposed to sigmond FAQ, which contains nothing but facts and no
opinions.
I note you don't have any commentary to add to the fact that you forged the
PDF. Why don't you take my advice?
--
Sandman[.net]
Tommy
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in mr-2AA84C.16...@individual.net
> on 8/12/04 7:17 AM:
>
> > In article <BD40C6AF.5BE6E%snit-...@cableone.net>,
> > Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> LOL. You forgot where I broke into Steve M.'s web site and uploaded all the
> >> proof there.
> >
> > Nopes, Steve even posted here about uploading your altered PDFs to his site.
> >
> > It's even part of the digest you just responded to:
> >
> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563000@hotm
> > ai
> > l.com>
> > From: Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:01:04 GMT
> > Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
> > Message-id: <pan.2004.08.12....@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Steve now posts a small summary of the PDFs where he has saved the two, by
> > Michael, modified versions of his original PDF on his site, clearly stating
> > them to be Michaels PDFs.
> >
> > You will ignore this, of course, so you can continue your evasion technique.
>
> You forgot to account for Steve's time machine where he publishes "proof"
> over 7 hours before the files had been created.
LIAR!!!
Snit
8/12/04 8:21 AM:
> Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in mr-2AA84C.16...@individual.net
>> on 8/12/04 7:17 AM:
>>
>>> In article <BD40C6AF.5BE6E%snit-...@cableone.net>,
>>> Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> LOL. You forgot where I broke into Steve M.'s web site and uploaded
>>>> all the proof there.
>>>
>>> Nopes, Steve even posted here about uploading your altered PDFs to his
>>> site.
>>>
>>> It's even part of the digest you just responded to:
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563000@ho
What time zone could I have been in to upload anything that was more than 7
hours different than Steve?
And how did I upload anything?
Snit
on 8/12/04 10:32 AM:
I notice how you evade responding to the 24 known deceptions in the sigmond
FAQ. Why is that?
>
> I note you don't have any commentary to add to the fact that you forged the
> PDF. Why don't you take my advice?
LOL.
Sandman
<snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
Incorrect, I responded and explained to you that you had nothing but
unsubstantiated claims here:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mr-B4CD84.07590410082004%40individual.net>
Which you, ironically, dodged in your followup:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=BD3DB630.5B902%25snit-nospam%40cableone.ne
t>
>> I note you don't have any commentary to add to the fact that you
>> forged the PDF. Why don't you take my advice?
>
> LOL.
Leaving the group is a good idea right about now, Michael.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <snit-...@cableone.net> wrote:
> > No need for a time machine - the directory listing is clearly in GMT so
> > the files were posted at 11:32 PST, which is hours before his posting
> >
> > $ telnet home.wi.rr.com 80
> > Trying 198.78.80.65...
> > Connected to home.wi.rr.com.
> > Escape character is '^]'.
> > GET /mackays/ HTTP/1.1
> > Host: home.wi.rr.com
> >
> > HTTP/1.1 200 OK
> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:18:16 GMT <--------------
> > Server: RRRPHP/9.4.2 (Xinu) FrontPage/4.0.4.3
> > Transfer-Encoding: chunked
> > Content-Type: text/html
> >
> What time zone could I have been in to upload anything that was more than 7
> hours different than Steve?
>
> And how did I upload anything?
That's right Michael - try to obsfuscate as much as you can - even though this
particular dodge of yours has been explained in detail in the digest.
Steve uploaded them. He took them from your site and uploaded them to his site.
Here is, again, the post where he even tells you he did:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3Apan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563000@hotmai
l.com>
Huh? You caught /me/ in lies. Bzzzzt.... try again.
Here is the original PDF.
http://home.wi.rr.com/mackays/email.pdf
Here is your 1st one, made with OmniGraffle, created on a Mac,
yesterday, and not by me.
http://home.wi.rr.com/mackays/email_snit_lie1.pdf
Here is your 2nd one, made today by you, with a creator name of
M, created today, again, not by me.
http://home.wi.rr.com/mackays/email_snit_lie2.pdf
As he said - the original PDF, that has been on his site for several month, has
not been altered. The two PDFs you have submitted have.
--
Sandman[.net]
Blam
Oh please. No one here has claimed that you uploaded anything to Steve
M's site. The timeline for file creation and uploading with GMT
timestamps for easy reference.......
06/13 13:12
The original email.pdf file on Steve Ms site is created (see document
properties)
06/13 18:17:41
The original email.pdf file on Steve Ms site is uploaded [a]
08/10 21:47 (10 Aug 14:47 -0700)
A PDF that was posted to Snits site as
http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/csma/email.pdf is created. File size is
211,938 bytes (details from documents properties).
08/10 22:23 (10 Aug 15:23 -0700)
Snit posts that he's dug up a PDF from his "backup drive" (the file that
was created just 36 minutes before) [1]
08/11 12:04
Steve uploaded 'snit.jpg' and 'mine.jpg' to
http://home.wi.rr.com/mackays/ (file listings here are in GMT as
previously shown)
08/11 14:53 (11 Aug 2004 07:53:20 -0700)
Snit claims that Steve has changed the PDFs [2]
08/11 15:54 (11 Aug 2004 15:54:03 GMT)
Steve M replies that he didn't change the PDF's and provides links to
screenshots of the PDF's properties windows which he uploaded to his
site 3 hours previously. [3]
08/11 16:16
Snit uploads 'email-new.pdf' to his own site - this is Steve M's file
from 13 Jun [b]
08/11 16:26 (11 Aug 2004 09:26:11 -0700)
Snit posts that he's added "both of" Steve's PDF's to to Snits own site.
For some reason, he decides to call the original PDF from 13 Jun
'email-new.pdf' even though it's clearly the original one. [4]
08/11 16:37
Snit uploads a different copy of 'email.pdf' to his own site - the files
size has now changed to 224,007 bytes [b]
08/11 19:32
Steve uploads the original email.pdf downloaded from Snit's pages to his
own site as email_snit_lie1.pdf and the "new" email.pdf from Snits pages
as "email_snit_lie2.pdf"
08/11 19:53 11 Aug 2004 14:53:19 -0500
Steve replies stating that only the file that Snit is calling
'email-new.pdf' is from him. The other file first appeared on Snits
site [5]
08/12 00:01
Steve posts detailing the PDFs he uploaded to his web space 4.5 hours
earlier.
More details given in Sandmans digest of this:
<http://csma.sandman.net/texter/read.php?id=42111>
---------
References:
[1]<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3ABD3E9B07.5BA3B%25snit-nosp
a...@cableone.net>
[2]<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=BD3F80F0.5BC56%25snit-nospam%40
cableone.net>
[3]<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.08.11.16.04.00.141000%
40hotmail.com>
[4]<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=BD3F96B3.5BC8B%25snit-nospam%40
cableone.net>
[5]<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.08.11.19.58.21.63000%4
0hotmail.com>
[6]<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563000%
40hotmail.com>
a) $ telnet home.wi.rr.com 80
Trying 198.78.80.65...
Connected to home.wi.rr.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD /mackays/email.pdf HTTP/1.1
Host: home.wi.rr.com
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:28:49 GMT
Server: RRRPHP/9.4.2 (Xinu) FrontPage/4.0.4.3
Last-Modified: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:17:41 GMT
ETag: "f5231c-26db7-40cc9a45"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 159159
Content-Type: application/pdf
X-Pad: avoid browser bug
b) $ telnet myweb.cableone.net 80
Trying 24.116.1.130...
Connected to myweb.cableone.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD /snit/csma/email-new.pdf HTTP/1.1
Host: myweb.cableone.net
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:01:07 GMT
Content-Type: application/pdf
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Last-Modified: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:16:01 GMT
ETag: "9014837ebe7fc41:161f"
Content-Length: 159159
HEAD /snit/csma/email.pdf HTTP/1.1
Host: myweb.cableone.net
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:00:24 GMT
Content-Type: application/pdf
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Last-Modified: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:37:58 GMT
ETag: "9aa4708fc17fc41:161f"
Content-Length: 224007
--
Sandman
Good timeline. I'll include it in the Digest, if you don't mind.
--
Sandman[.net]
Tim Smith
> Leaving the group is a good idea right about now, Michael.
So this is your fault!
--
--Tim Smith
Sandman
Tim Smith <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> On 2004-08-13, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> > Leaving the group is a good idea right about now, Michael.
>
> So this is your fault!
What?
--
Sandman[.net]