iPhone battery life sucks

[Thomas E.]

After a year of use my 6s is falling way short on battery life. I run some pretty CPU-intensive software. When skiing if I turn on Ski Tracks and use my Go Pro the battery lasts at best 3-4 hours. The Moto Android I had before the Mac would run 7-8 hours using Ski Tracks. I had to tether to a small Mophie to get the iPhone to run all day.

Even in normal light use it typically needs charging before the day is up. On several occasions I've seen the battery drop from over 80% to under 20% in an hour, and the phone gets hot. While out in Colorado I forgot to plug it in and overnight it went from 95% to 20% - on standby! All of my GPS apps are set to not use GPS in background too. The battery report claimed Google Maps was the main drain, even though a browser was running in foreground.

I hope it's just the 6s, but if the next iPhone is as bad I'm back to Android.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-03-11 6:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> After a year of use my 6s is falling way short on battery life. I run
> some pretty CPU-intensive software. When skiing if I turn on Ski
> Tracks and use my Go Pro the battery lasts at best 3-4 hours. The
> Moto Android I had before the Mac would run 7-8 hours using Ski
> Tracks. I had to tether to a small Mophie to get the iPhone to run
> all day.

And the Liarboy makes an apples to oranges comparison...

[John]

I have seen this happen once in awhile usually right after a new major
IOS release. Nothing wrong with the iPhone or software. The problem
is you have one or more bad apps which are malfunctioning. Close them
completely or update to the latest version and the problem goes away.
And guess what? The same problem with battery drain occurs on Android
also- if an App is defective.

[Thomas E.]

Except that the OS version at that time was 13.3.1, which was installed the day it came out on January 28. The app updates were all the latest versions. I saw the same thing with prior OS revisions. I'm seeing it now on 13.4. Yesterday morning I opened the phone with 80% battery remaining. Literally 10 minutes later, using only e-mail and web browsing, it dropped to about 50%. If I plug in a small Mophie the phone will stay at 100% all day, even with GPS tracking me full time. Why does the Mophie not drain too?

The advertised by Apple battery life is a joke: https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6s-battery-life/

I can not use the phone all day and the next morning I see about 80% power remaining. 10 days is a joke. With light use I can just get through a day with a few hours of screen time. In the car, using Maps for navigation, the battery lasts 2 hours, tops. 11 hours of HD video? Not going to happen.

[Thomas E.]

You got that right. The iPhone 6s is no substitute for an Android phone from a company not obsessed with thin and is obsessed with battery life.

[Alan Baker]

Have you even looked to see which apps are using the most energy,
Liarboy? Do you even know HOW to check. Take a screenshot to show that
you do.

Do you know how to take a screenshot.

The iPhone 6s was discontinued 18 months ago, so you're claiming you
bought a new iPHone 6s 6 months after it was discontinued? Seems dodgy
to me, Liarboy.

Did you buy a new iPhone 6s...

...or a refurbished one?

[Alan Baker]

And yet you've kept the iPhone.

[Thomas E.]

Yes I have looked and a screenshot is power+button. The app power use differs day-to-day, the result is the same.

It was a factory new phone purchased from Verizon. It received the 1 year Apple warranty and I bought the 2 year plan too. Screenshot: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13csnu7xDCmnmCM9_XCYmz26wnEnCmlyH

[Alan Baker]

Riiiiiiiight.

Funny how there's no accompanying screenshot...

>
> It was a factory new phone purchased from Verizon. It received the 1
> year Apple warranty and I bought the 2 year plan too. Screenshot:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=13csnu7xDCmnmCM9_XCYmz26wnEnCmlyH
>

Proves nothing, Liarboy:

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/5iwrpygg77s8ewb/Screenshot%202020-03-29%2015.26.03.png?dl=0>

See that?

AppleCare+ is offered on refurbished Apple products.

Take a screenshot of your About screen in Settings:General.

[Thomas E.]

I also got the factory warranty. This is the phone that replaced the one that water killed. It was made in week 31 of 2018. I got it at the Apple Store in the Fashion Mall, Indianapolis.

About:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QadESSKZt9byuESaN_rzQCUoNiObtk3o

As you can see the serial number indicates it's a replacement device. The Apple rep brought it out in the OEM box. He assured me that it is factory new.

[Thomas E.]

More:

Try opening the Apple Care link I sent: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13csnu7xDCmnmCM9_XCYmz26wnEnCmlyH

[Alan Baker]

You mean the serial number that your screenshot doesn't show...

...along with the model number.

Try again.

Like this:

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/pg9i0kmi97g733x/IMG_4124.png?dl=0>

Let's see the Model Number and Serial Number, Liarboy.

[Alan Baker]

Yeah... ...saw it.

But as I demonstrated, Apple offers Apple care on refurbished products.

[Alan Baker]

What's the matter, Liarboy?

You've suddenly gone all coy.

[Thomas E.]

OK, no problem

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VWFsFO5_879C8yU6AjBuzJSmHSkVlH1I

[Thomas E.]

I'll save you the trouble. Remember, it is a replacement obtained in person at the local Apple Store under the damage warranty. It was in the Apple OEM box and came with the standard 1 year warranty.

[Alan Baker]

Funny.

You initially claimed:

"It was a factory new phone purchased from Verizon."

Now you got it from the Apple store.

But in either case, it wasn't a "factory new phone"...

...so your story has some curious holes in it, Liarboy.

[Alan Baker]

As I thought. It was NOT a "factory new phone" when you bought it.

That's what the model number beginning with "N" means.

[-hh]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 12:05:15 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-04-10 6:49 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 8:24:58 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

> >> [like this]

> >> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/pg9i0kmi97g733x/IMG_4124.png?dl=0>
> >>
> >> Let's see the Model Number and Serial Number, Liarboy.
> >
> > OK, no problem
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VWFsFO5_879C8yU6AjBuzJSmHSkVlH1I
> >
>
> As I thought. It was NOT a "factory new phone" when you bought it.
>
> That's what the model number beginning with "N" means.

If memory serves, Tom's first one went swimming and got replaced, so
this would be the S/N of the replacement?

In any event, here's a page that details the code(s) that Alan was referring to.
Personally, I wasn't aware of this before:

<https://appletoolbox.com/how-to-tell-if-your-iphone-is-new-or-refurbished/>


-hh

[ed]

So an apple sourced, unlocked iPhone?

[Alan Baker]

Tom is being is usual evasive self and it wouldn't surprise me in the
least if the second screenshot he presented was from a different device
than the first.

[Alan Baker]

Well... ...sometimes it's an Apple-sourced phone...

"I got it at the Apple Store in the Fashion Mall, Indianapolis."

...and sometimes it came from Verizon.

[Thomas E.]

Alan, you just cannot stop lying, can you?

Let's start with serial number FVMX506GGRYJ

F - made in Zhengzhou
X - second half of 2018
5 - made from 7/29 to 8/04 of 2018

When I received this replacement in May you could still buy them new from Verizon.

Model number NKQV2LL/A begins with N, that's a replacement phone from Apple.
Refurbished model numbers start with F. https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/Models
Press the model number and A1688 comes up, a 6S that runs on Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon.

IMEI - see:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pa9_w9H3yfjsF3QcYeNMJ0W_9narUVmG

Or just read the results here:

IMEI.info: (note that the purchase date and warranty is set to the date I bought the phone from Verizon)

Model: iPhone 6s 128GB Gold MM-TD [A1688] [iPhone8,1]
IMEI: 356140092138829
Serial Number: FVMX506GGRYJ
Purchase Date: 2019-02-06
Activation Status: Activated
Warranty Status: AppleCare+
Telephone Technical Support: Active
Technical Support Expiration Date: 2021-02-05
Technical Support Expires In: (299) Days
Repairs and Service Coverage: Active (limits apply)
Repairs and Service Expiration Date: 2021-02-05
Repairs and Service Expires In: (299) Days
Coverage End Date: 2021-02-05
Valid Purchase Date: Yes
AppleCare Eligible: Already Activated
Registered: Yes
Replaced: No
Loaner: No
Find My iPhone: ON
Carrier: Unlock
SIMLock Status: Unlocked

[Thomas E.]

You have a short memory, Liarboy. The phone purchased from Verizon in February 2019 was new. That's not the phone's data I posted. I gave you the data off the replacement phone from Apple received in May 2019. The one I bought from Verizon phone died in a tub of water. It's data cannot be accessed off the phone because that phone was bricked.

A model number that starts with F is refurbished. Mine starts with a N. Please look that up.

[Thomas E.]

Two different phones, Liarboy

[Thomas E.]

Yes, the second was the replacement supplied by Apple at the Apple Store Genius Bar in May, 2019. It was unlocked. We just put in my Verizon SIM and did a restore. Pretty slick process. I called Verizon and they referred me to the Apple Store for the replacement.

The first was purchased from Apple in February 2019.

[Thomas E.]

Yes, and those have model numbers that start with F, not N.

Maybe you confused model number and serial number? The serial number tells you nothing about whether it's a replacement, retail/new or refurbished.

[ed]

So much for your reasoning that you couldn't have bought an iPhone 7 from apple for a couple bucks more than a 3 gen old 6s from Verizon. ;)
https://groups.google.com/forum/?nomobile=true#!original/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/Ob_lnAlb-fg/xR2QylGfGwAJ

[Thomas E.]

True, I could have. It was my first iPhone and I saw little advantage in the 7 versus the 6s. The SE 2020 rumors are looking interesting. When my 6s Apple Care runs out next year I'll have a hard look at that model.

[ed]

1 generation newer so longer before it gets sunsetted for support, faster, better cameras, better screen, and directly relevant to you, ip67 water resistance and better battery life. :P all for $20 more.

all in all, it really speaks to the main issue with your phone purchases - they're basically uninformed, and whatever you buy, you think is the best, until you find out why it's not.

[Alan Baker]

And factory-new phones have model numbers starting with "M"...

[Alan Baker]

So which is the real story, Liarboy?

As the first purchased from Apple...

...or Verizon?

[Alan Baker]

What was the lie?

Factory new phones get numbers starting with "M".

>
> Let's start with serial number FVMX506GGRYJ
>
> F - made in Zhengzhou
> X - second half of 2018
> 5 - made from 7/29 to 8/04 of 2018
>
> When I received this replacement in May you could still buy them new from Verizon.
>
> Model number NKQV2LL/A begins with N, that's a replacement phone from Apple.

Does that mean it's guaranteed to be new, Liarboy?

[Alan Baker]

And yet in a reply to Ed, you said:

"The first was purchased from Apple in February 2019."

> That's not the phone's data I posted. I gave
> you the data off the replacement phone from Apple received in May
> 2019. The one I bought from Verizon phone died in a tub of water.

"The first was purchased from Apple in February 2019."

> It's data cannot be accessed off the phone because that phone was
> bricked.
>
> A model number that starts with F is refurbished. Mine starts with a
> N. Please look that up.

It doesn't start with "M"...

[Alan Baker]

And this one:

"The first was purchased from Apple in February 2019."

Which one is that?

[Thomas E.]

If it was not a new phone the Apple employee who retrieved it from the back room lied to me. I saw it in the OEM packaging, asked him if it was new, and he stated it was. I'm sure that Apple stocks new phones for warranty replacement. If it was refurbished it would have a newer battery than a phone that was made in August, 2018. When I got it the battery charged to 100% of capacity. Even when it was fully charging it would go down to well under 50% on a light use day. I've had at least 2 uncommanded shutdowns because, as the OS batter health says "the battery was unable to deliver the necessary peak power."

It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After a 45 minutes of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%. That sucks.

[Thomas E.]

I never said I purchased a phone direct from Apple. I bought it from Verizon.

Also, as you apparently forgot, prior to Verizon there was a 6s purchased off eBay that I returned. It was advertised as new, but was about 2 years old and refurbished. A real learning experience.

[Alan Baker]

You are getting senile. Look up... ...six lines of text:

"The first was purchased from Apple in February 2019."

You agree, you did write that, right Liarboy?

>
> Also, as you apparently forgot, prior to Verizon there was a 6s
> purchased off eBay that I returned. It was advertised as new, but was
> about 2 years old and refurbished. A real learning experience.

I didn't forget it, I IGNORED it for this discussion...

...because I understood its irrelevance.

[Alan Baker]

So at that rate, by 2am the next day, the battery will be at 0%, right?

How does that hinder you?

I'm sure you've done everything possible to make the iPhone perform
poorly. Or maybe you're just incompetent, Liarboy.

Show us the screen which lists which apps have drawn the most power.

[ed]

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:49:25 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-04-13 1:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

...

> > It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After a 45 minutes
> > of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%. That sucks.
> >
>
> So at that rate, by 2am the next day, the battery will be at 0%, right?
>
> How does that hinder you?

battery life indicator isn't always linear, especially as the battery ages. on my 6s, it'd trickle down to ~50%, then fall off the cliff. and of course when the battery is really crapping out, can shut down in the 10-30% range for no apparent reason.


...

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-13 1:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

> If it was not a new phone the Apple employee who retrieved it from the back room lied to me. I saw it in the OEM packaging, asked him if it was new, and he stated it was. I'm sure that Apple stocks new phones for warranty replacement. If it was refurbished it would have a newer battery than a phone that was made in August, 2018. When I got it the battery charged to 100% of capacity. Even when it was fully charging it would go down to well under 50% on a light use day. I've had at least 2 uncommanded shutdowns because, as the OS batter health says "the battery was unable to deliver the necessary peak power."
>
> It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After a 45 minutes of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%. That sucks.

BTW: did you do any checking about possible causes, Liarboy?

I'm betting... ...not:

'I have been using Garmin Pilot since the summer and love it.
I bought a brand new iPad Air 2 in August just to run Garmin Pilot.
My battery life has been excellent; anywhere from 5 to 7 days on a full
charge.

However,....

Two weeks ago I upgraded to Garmin Pilot v. 8.5 and IMMEDIATELY noticed
that my battery was being sucked dry. after putting my iPad away with a
full charge, I found it completely dead after just two days;... of
NON-USE. I am now getting only 1 to 2 days between charges.

I finally checked my battery monitor, and my iPad tells me what I'd
suspected: over the past 7 days, Garmin Pilot has used 90% of my battery
life... PERFORMING BACKGROUND ACTIVITIES.

I have changed no settings in Garmin Pilot, and can find no options to
stop background activities.

Anybody know what's going on? '

Replies:

'It does run in the background and will drain the battery moreso than if
it isn't running at all. Foreflight does the same thing, so this isn't
something unique to Garmin Pilot. It's really a matter of how the app is
designed and if it utilizes iOS' background execution or not.

Just kill it when you're not using it and it will be fine.'



'You may want to take a look at the counters to see what specifically is
draining the battery:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201264

You may need to clear the counters first and wait a day or two to see
what is doing it. You would be surprised what other apps have had issues
in the past. I don't use it that much (honestly) but the Domino's Pizza
app was a great example in the past on mine of one that was constantly
looking for the location in the background as if I was going to order
pizza 24 hours a day'



'Jeff,

That's exactly what I did, and it told me that Garmin Pilot was using
90% of my battery in Background Tasks. I have had to charge my battery
from completely dead THREE TIMES in the last week, and have only used it
a total of about 2 hours; the rest of the time it's been in sleep mode.

The previous version of Garmin Pilot never drained my battery like this.

Again, I have not changed ANYTHING on my iPad in the last 2 months
EXCEPT loading GP ver. 8.5, and all of a sudden a typical charge went
from lasting 5 to 7 days to lasting just 1 or 2.'



'I really like Garmin pilot, but it has been a battery hog on my iPhone
for some time.

i regularly check the phone and kill unused apps (double click the home
button, then swipe up on anything you want turned off).

If i inadvertently leave the Pilot app running, in the background, it
will drain my iPhone 6 in less than half a day.

The iPad hasn't been an issue, and i typically fire the app up first
thing in the morning if I have a trip to file and brief, then use it
frequenly but not continuously in flight. I've flown a lot of four hour
legs after that and haven't killed the ipad yet.'

<http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?s=b292e96e959a123088e9f0c0c02ce585&t=144818&page=2>


Oh, and from Garmin's information on the App Store:

"Location This app may use your location even when it isn't open, which
can decrease battery life."

<https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/garmin-pilot/id340917615>

[Alan Baker]

I agree with that...

...but I'm making the point that his statements don't seem to match the
facts on their face.

That being the case, it's up to him to provide the full story.

Oh, and it's his Garmin Pilot software:

'Location This app may use your location even when it isn't open, which

[ed]

like any app, only if you allow it to.

[Alan Baker]

Hence the incompetency I mentioned to him.

[Thomas E.]

The GP (and all other GPS app) setting is for only "while using the app".

[Thomas E.]

Allan, I know how to set app permissions. You live in a bilingual country can't even figure out how to change Windows 10 from French to English.

[Thomas E.]

By first I was thinking of the 2 that I actually used for more than a few days. The eBay purchase was returned in about 1 week.

[Thomas E.]

I've seen exactly that happen, but only a few times.

[Alan Baker]

But you keep going back and forth between it being purchased from
Verizon and it being purchased from Apple, Liarboy

[Alan Baker]

And yet you won't post a screenshot of what apps are using how much
battery...

[Alan Baker]

And that doesn't mean it isn't using up other resources, Liarboy.

Post the screenshot of what apps are using up the most battery...

...or have you already looked and discovered it's damning to your claims?

[-hh]

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:57:31 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:49:25 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> > On 2020-04-13 1:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> ...
> > > It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After
> > > a 45 minutes of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%.
> > > That sucks.
> >
> >
> > So at that rate, by 2am the next day, the battery will be at 0%, right?
> > How does that hinder you?

With somewhat ironic coincidence, I happened to grab the
wrong iPhone when I hosted a teleconference call yesterday
afternoon, namely my personal 6s rather than the work 7.
I'll upload the screenshot when I get a chance; it basically
shows that when I started the call at 14:30, battery was
at roughly 75% … and 1:41 later when I ended that call, it
was at ~50% (I looked at it was registering 51%).

By comparison, I had two work calls today that I used the
correct phone and they lasted 1:11 and 0:34 which burned
the phone down from ~75% to ~50% … quite similar. FYI, I'd
forgotten to charge the work phone overnight, which was why
it was at 75% at 9AM. Currently, its registering 47%.

YMMV, but I don't really see a huge difference .. or, for that
matter all that much of a "problem": cellular connections
are known to burn more power than WiFi, and being able to
spend 2 hours on a call and not completely burn out one's
battery is a vast improvement from where the technology was
a decade ago - - it was literally this week a decade ago
that I was stuck in Europe due to the Iceland volcano, and
I was routinely charging my Blackberry 2-3x per day between
calls to the airline's customer service center to get rebooked.

> battery life indicator isn't always linear, especially as
> the battery ages. on my 6s, it'd trickle down to ~50%, then
> fall off the cliff. and of course when the battery is
> really crapping out, can shut down in the 10-30% range
> for no apparent reason.

I've noticed this as well and IMO, its a reliable sign that
one would benefit from a battery replacement even when the
"battery health" indicator claims that everything's still
'perfectly fine'. Its not.


-hh

[ed]

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:54:38 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:57:31 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:49:25 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> > > On 2020-04-13 1:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > ...
> > > > It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After
> > > > a 45 minutes of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%.
> > > > That sucks.
> > >
> > >
> > > So at that rate, by 2am the next day, the battery will be at 0%, right?
> > > How does that hinder you?
>
> With somewhat ironic coincidence, I happened to grab the
> wrong iPhone when I hosted a teleconference call yesterday
> afternoon, namely my personal 6s rather than the work 7.
> I'll upload the screenshot when I get a chance; it basically
> shows that when I started the call at 14:30, battery was
> at roughly 75% … and 1:41 later when I ended that call, it
> was at ~50% (I looked at it was registering 51%).

i don't think my pretty stinkin' new xr does that well. i'll have to take note next time i'm on a longer call.

at the end, it was literally a crapshoot taking a phone call much below 50%, for any length of time.

[ed]

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 3:03:32 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:54:38 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:57:31 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:49:25 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> > > > On 2020-04-13 1:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > > It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After
> > > > > a 45 minutes of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%.
> > > > > That sucks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So at that rate, by 2am the next day, the battery will be at 0%, right?
> > > > How does that hinder you?
> >
> > With somewhat ironic coincidence, I happened to grab the
> > wrong iPhone when I hosted a teleconference call yesterday
> > afternoon, namely my personal 6s rather than the work 7.
> > I'll upload the screenshot when I get a chance; it basically
> > shows that when I started the call at 14:30, battery was
> > at roughly 75% … and 1:41 later when I ended that call, it
> > was at ~50% (I looked at it was registering 51%).
>
> i don't think my pretty stinkin' new xr does that well. i'll have to take note next time i'm on a longer call.

6% reduction (100%-94%) for a 30min call, using wifi calling. your numbers seem suspiciously good for an old phone with a smaller battery. ;D i got plenty of telecons these days, so i'll try to remember to make note of a couple more.

...

[-hh]

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 11:12:47 AM UTC-4, ed wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 3:03:32 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:54:38 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:57:31 PM UTC-4, ed wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:49:25 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> > > > > On 2020-04-13 1:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > > > It was at 100% on the home screen at 11 am today. After
> > > > > > a 45 minutes of phone calls and 5 hours later it's 66%.
> > > > > > That sucks.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So at that rate, by 2am the next day, the battery will be at 0%, right?
> > > > > How does that hinder you?
> > >
> > > With somewhat ironic coincidence, I happened to grab the
> > > wrong iPhone when I hosted a teleconference call yesterday
> > > afternoon, namely my personal 6s rather than the work 7.
> > > I'll upload the screenshot when I get a chance; it basically
> > > shows that when I started the call at 14:30, battery was
> > > at roughly 75% … and 1:41 later when I ended that call, it
> > > was at ~50% (I looked at it was registering 51%).
> >
> > i don't think my pretty stinkin' new xr does that well.
> > i'll have to take note next time i'm on a longer call.
>
> 6% reduction (100%-94%) for a 30min call, using wifi calling.

I've not used WiFi calling; probably because for the longest
time, we only had DSL.

> your numbers seem suspiciously good for an old phone with
> a smaller battery. ;D i got plenty of telecons these days,
> so i'll try to remember to make note of a couple more.

Well, while the 6s is certainly older hardware, don't forget
that I'd mentioned that I'd replaced the battery (12/2018),
so that helps. The 7 was a replacement a few months ago
when my work 6s bricked - I forget exactly when, but I'd
offhand say ~4? months ago...sometime in the 11/19 to 2/20
timeframe. As such, figure a one year delta in battery age
between the two.

-hh

[ed]

still almost 1.5 yrs old, vs a weeks old phone with a larger battery. :P

[Thomas E.]

Nope, I need have a use for GPS app and hotspot. In case you have not noticed for some reason people are not taking many trips around here these days. Sheesh, you are impatient.

[Thomas E.]

My last Moto had a ~3,000 mAh battery and ran that app for 5-6 hours on a similar GPS use setting. It's the small 6s battery, stupid.

[Alan Baker]

I notice you still haven't produced a screenshot of what's using your
battery the most.

Is there something there you don't want us to see, Liarboy?

[Alan Baker]

The software CANNOT be exactly the same, Liarboy...

...or can't you figure that out for yourself?

[Thomas E.]

When I bought the iPhone I installed, where possible, all Android apps I was using and very happy with.

So, most of the apps are the same. Outlook, Chrome, Google's apps, Garmin Pilot and all the other aviation apps, Libby, Kindle, Office, Pandora, weather/news apps, etc. I have installed substitutes for almost all the Apple iOS apps. On the iPhone I do not use Apple Maps, Apple Mail, Photos, the Apple word processor/spreadsheet/presentations apps, etc.

The only Apple apps I use on a regular basis are Messages, Clock, and the file browser. Where possible I deleted Apple apps.

Why? Because I wanted out of the walled garden.

[Thomas E.]

Because it happens when I'm on the road or in the air. Not driving much or flying at all. We are locked down here until further notice.

[Thomas E.]

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 3:11:45 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-03-29 9:19 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 11, 2020 at 9:40:11 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

> >> On 2020-03-11 6:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
> >>> After a year of use my 6s is falling way short on battery life. I
> >>> run some pretty CPU-intensive software. When skiing if I turn on
> >>> Ski Tracks and use my Go Pro the battery lasts at best 3-4 hours.
> >>> The Moto Android I had before the Mac would run 7-8 hours using
> >>> Ski Tracks. I had to tether to a small Mophie to get the iPhone
> >>> to run all day.
> >>

> >> And the Liarboy makes an apples to oranges comparison...

> >>
> >>>
> >>> Even in normal light use it typically needs charging before the
> >>> day is up. On several occasions I've seen the battery drop from
> >>> over 80% to under 20% in an hour, and the phone gets hot. While
> >>> out in Colorado I forgot to plug it in and overnight it went from
> >>> 95% to 20% - on standby! All of my GPS apps are set to not use
> >>> GPS in background too. The battery report claimed Google Maps was
> >>> the main drain, even though a browser was running in foreground.
> >>>
> >>> I hope it's just the 6s, but if the next iPhone is as bad I'm
> >>> back to Android.
> >>>
> >

> > You got that right. The iPhone 6s is no substitute for an Android
> > phone from a company not obsessed with thin and is obsessed with
> > battery life.
> >
>
>
> And yet you've kept the iPhone.

And if I had not kept it you would be griping about trading phone so often. At the moment my expensive Apple Care expires early next year. Why would I not keep it and put up with a piss poor battery until then?

[Alan Baker]

Once again, you're having a hard time keeping your lies straight, Liarboy.

You have a phone with AppleCare+ and you claim that battery life is now
terrible...

...so why haven't you had it replaced?

'If your iPhone is covered by an AppleCare plan and the battery holds
less than 80 percent of its original capacity, we'll service your
product at no charge.'

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service

[Alan Baker]

Bully for you.

>
> So, most of the apps are the same. Outlook, Chrome, Google's apps,
> Garmin Pilot and all the other aviation apps, Libby, Kindle, Office,
> Pandora, weather/news apps, etc. I have installed substitutes for
> almost all the Apple iOS apps. On the iPhone I do not use Apple Maps,
> Apple Mail, Photos, the Apple word
> processor/spreadsheet/presentations apps, etc.

No, Liarboy. The apps have the same name and the same function...

...but the actually underlying code MUST BE DIFFERENT.

[Alan Baker]

So you're saying that you DON'T have a problem with battery life except
when you're on the road or in the air, is that right?

[Thomas E.]

Alan, you don't know anything. About my iPhone, AppleCare or Windows 10.

First, my phone shows 92% battery capacity, so AppleCare is not applicable:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aPFxjK9b3EmkCTaRyUIxbiwtwQw3C_7Q

Today I needed to go pick up a few things at the grocery, so I turned on Google Maps and hooked up Pandora via Bluetooth. On the way home I drove around a bit to see what the battery would show. Here are the shots showing app use that you begged for:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GenAdBlMMs3n2V1HE5RAALqyEnTOZ78X
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12x8PXpli1qJcFv5MvG4eD888e2FwSL7_

The battery was about 96% when I started out and 57% at the end. The phone ran the apps about 90 minutes and lost about 40 pct. points. That projects to about 225 minutes, 3.75 hours. That's pretty much exactly what I see when I hit the slopes with Ski Tracks running. The Motorola I had before the iPhone I had would run Ski Tracks 7-8 hours on it's much larger 3000 mAh battery. The newest iPhones have substantially increased battery capacity at the price of a slightly thicker case.

When I piggyback a smallish external 3000 mAh Mophie Mini battery the iPhone will run 8 hours with little drain on the fully charged 6s battery. Funny about that, the Mophie Mini and the Motorola phone battery are about the same size capacity.

Summary, the 6s has lousy battery life because the battery is just simply too small. The fault lies with Apple for putting form before function. Ive said so in this article:

https://pocketnow.com/iphone-battery-life

"The way Ive sees it, iPhone battery life can be low because of just how much we use the phone – like it’s almost too compelling for its own good. And we use it so much, he argues, because it’s such a thin, light, convenient-to-hold phone – all direct consequences of it having a smaller battery to begin with. In a sense, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy."

"The flip side to that – that a phone with a more generous battery would automatically be larger, heavier, and less desirable than the iPhone – can be a difficult pill to swallow. Ive seems to imply that at the end of the day, a successful device will be an attractive one rather than a functional one – though that’s hardly a surprising position to take considering his background."

I love this part: "a successful device will be an attractive one rather than a functional one". That's the definition of form over function.

[ed]

the phone *reporting* 80% capacity doesn't mean it lasts nearly as long. when my phone was lasting 4-5hrs of very light use (almost no active use), it was reporting ~70%.

[ed]

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 11:20:09 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

sooo many calls this week, but i keep forgetting to do it on my xr to see the battery drain. finally got a 1:18 call yesterday, and a 30min call yesterday. cell network this time. 1:18 call drained 15% of the indicated battery, from 70%-55%, and the 30min call drained 8%, from 38% to 30%. so the xr does do better, but i'm still shocked that you report the old 6s does as well it does relative to the xr, given the 70%+ bigger battery - that 1.5yr old battery has proportionally less drain than the bigger brand new battery?

[Alan Baker]

Sorry, Ed, but I'm not getting into this with you.

I'm far too busy with the inconsistencies and evasions Tommy is laying down.

[Alan Baker]

Which shows clearly that Google Maps is a HUGE battery drain.

Imagine what Garmin Pilot might be.

>
> The battery was about 96% when I started out and 57% at the end. The
> phone ran the apps about 90 minutes and lost about 40 pct. points.
> That projects to about 225 minutes, 3.75 hours. That's pretty much
> exactly what I see when I hit the slopes with Ski Tracks running. The
> Motorola I had before the iPhone I had would run Ski Tracks 7-8 hours
> on it's much larger 3000 mAh battery. The newest iPhones have
> substantially increased battery capacity at the price of a slightly
> thicker case.

No, Liarboy. They are quite minimally thicker and have a larger capacity
battery at least as much for the fact that they are taller and wider.

Phone Thicknesses Area
6s: 7.1mm 138.3*67.1=9279.93mm^2
1st SE: 7.6 (+7%) 123.8*58.6=7,254.68 (-22%)
7: 7.1 138.3*67.1=9279.93mm
8: 7.3 (+3%) 138.4*67.3=9,314.32 (+0%)
X: 7.7 (+10%) 143.6*70.9=10,181.24 (+10%)
XS: 7.7 (+10%) 143.6*70.9=10,181.24 (+10%)
XR: 8.3 (+17%) 150.9*75.7=11,423.13 (+23%)
11: 8.3 (+17%) 150.9*75.7=11,423.13 (+23%)
11 Pro: 8.1 (+14%) 144*71.4=10,281.6 (+11%)

So you can have a larger battery...

...but only by getting a physically bigger phone.

>
> When I piggyback a smallish external 3000 mAh Mophie Mini battery the
> iPhone will run 8 hours with little drain on the fully charged 6s
> battery. Funny about that, the Mophie Mini and the Motorola phone
> battery are about the same size capacity.
>
> Summary, the 6s has lousy battery life because the battery is just
> simply too small. The fault lies with Apple for putting form before
> function. Ive said so in this article:
>
> https://pocketnow.com/iphone-battery-life

And yet, there is a correlation you've mentioned between using certain
software and your battery life changing substantially that you don't
want to investigate.

>
> "The way Ive sees it, iPhone battery life can be low because of just
> how much we use the phone – like it’s almost too compelling for its
> own good. And we use it so much, he argues, because it’s such a thin,
> light, convenient-to-hold phone – all direct consequences of it
> having a smaller battery to begin with. In a sense, it’s a
> self-fulfilling prophecy."

And?

>
> "The flip side to that – that a phone with a more generous battery
> would automatically be larger, heavier, and less desirable than the
> iPhone – can be a difficult pill to swallow. Ive seems to imply that
> at the end of the day, a successful device will be an attractive one
> rather than a functional one – though that’s hardly a surprising
> position to take considering his background."
>
> I love this part: "a successful device will be an attractive one
> rather than a functional one". That's the definition of form over
> function.

No. Because attractiveness is in itself a part of the function we want
from things we purchase to use.

That's what he's saying.

But what I'm saying is you have a huge inconsistency in your story about
this, Liarboy.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-23 12:54 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

>> You have a phone with AppleCare+ and you claim that battery life is
>> now terrible...
>>
>> ...so why haven't you had it replaced?
>>
>> 'If your iPhone is covered by an AppleCare plan and the battery
>> holds less than 80 percent of its original capacity, we'll service
>> your product at no charge.'
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service
>
> Alan, you don't know anything. About my iPhone, AppleCare or Windows
> 10.
>
> First, my phone shows 92% battery capacity, so AppleCare is not
> applicable:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aPFxjK9b3EmkCTaRyUIxbiwtwQw3C_7Q
>
> Today I needed to go pick up a few things at the grocery, so I turned
> on Google Maps and hooked up Pandora via Bluetooth. On the way home I
> drove around a bit to see what the battery would show. Here are the
> shots showing app use that you begged for:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GenAdBlMMs3n2V1HE5RAALqyEnTOZ78X
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12x8PXpli1qJcFv5MvG4eD888e2FwSL7_
>
> The battery was about 96% when I started out and 57% at the end. The
> phone ran the apps about 90 minutes and lost about 40 pct. points.

I failed to note this before:

The battery shows pretty much full charge until just about 1pm, and then
it begins to fall quite quickly...

...when you had the screen on almost all the time.

The "Activity" chart shows times when the screen was on in darker blue
and times when the phone was active with the screen off in lighter blue.

Your screenshot clearly shows that between 1300 and 1400, the phone was
active for just over 30 minutes and the screen was on for all but a tiny
fraction of that time.

From 1400 to 1500, the phone was active for more than 40 minutes...

...and the screen was on the entire time (or at least was off so little
than you cannot see any hint of light blue on that bar)

This demands I ask the questions:

In addition to having the screen on for about 70 minutes in 120, did you
turn the brightness up to full as well, Liarboy?

And did you do it deliberately to make your results look worse?

[Thomas E.]

Nitpicking on your part.

You are correct on Garmin battery drain. Garmin maps in the foreground is drains my tiny iPhone battery in 3-4 hours. Therefore, to be useful using an app like Garmin Maps or Pilot you need more battery capacity that older iPhones offer. That's the whole point. A phone with an inadequate battery to run computationally intensive apps for more than a few hours are not very useful for those of who who want to frequently run those apps. Why do you think people buy piggyback battery packs?

You are incorrect on the form over function decisions that Apple made under Ive. What Ive said was that you design a device that compels use, but to hell with the fact that the design cannot run a compelling but power intensive navigation app that more than a few hours without external power or a recharge. Also to hell with fact that the thin butterfly was failure prone.

Have you not noticed that recent iPhones and Macs have scrapped Ive-inspired designs in favor of increasing function and reliability? Do you not see this as a good direction for Apple? Or, you just hung up on trying to beat me down?

It's you that's being inconsistent.

[Thomas E.]

No Alan, the brightness was on auto and the phone was sitting in the console. The screen was on the entire time. You sort of need that with a navigation app that has a destination programmed.

When running Ski Tracks the phone is in my coat with the screen off almost all day, and it still lasts only 3-4 hours on the internal battery. The first day this year I forgot the Mophie, and the phone was down to 10% by noon. I found a charging station in Summit House at Keystone and got it back to 75% over a long lunch. Then it died before the last lift.

It's not the screen. It's the computationally intensive nature of GPS apps that I use a lot. The 6s battery is just not up to the task.

[ed]

The screen is generally the big battery drain when running gps - newer gps chips aren't big power hogs. I'm not sure what would so computationally intense about the gps apps you use - care to elaborate?

[Thomas E.]

Right, turn off the screen so that you can't follow your progress. That's a partial "solution"? It helps, but apps that use Location Services even with the screen off still drain the battery.

https://appletoolbox.com/google-map-apps-causing-your-iphone-battery-drain-to-fast/

I can tell you from experience that any app that continuously tracks your precise location is going to drain the battery.

[Alan Baker]

I'm sure he will...

...if by "elaborate" you mean "make up yet more excuses".

[Alan Baker]

Did you even bother to read that article...

...or did you just search "google maps iphone battery"?

Because here's their first tip:

'Tip 1: Turn off your iPhone screen

Use the Side button, also known as the Sleep/Wake button to turn off
your screen.

Your iPhone screen is the biggest source of battery drain when using
Google Maps. It takes a lot of energy to power all those pixels! The
single best thing you can do to save power while using Google Maps is to
turn off your iPhone screen. '

And before you drone on about needing to follow your progress, do
remember that you can plug your phone in when using it in a car.

And remember:

'Of course, you can’t do this if you need to see the map the entire
time. But most long trips include a sizable stretch on the highway. If
the next turn isn’t for 20 miles or more, you can save a lot of energy
by turning the screen off until then.'

[ed]

Didn't say it was a solution - but you said it's not the screen, but when the screen is on, it's typically the biggest / one of the biggest battery drainers (other than in computationally intensive things, which GPS is not).

> It helps, but apps that use Location Services even with the screen off still drain the battery.

That's not because your app is computationally intense as you claim.

When GPS tracking is on, a whole lot of things end up being on, as the phone is prevented from sleeping. That's the main issue with most gps apps. Regarding gos itself, my Garmin watch can go like 20 hrs on it's little tiny battery with gps tracking.

> https://appletoolbox.com/google-map-apps-causing-your-iphone-battery-drain-to-fast/
>
> I can tell you from experience that any app that continuously tracks your precise location is going to drain the battery.

Yep. Not because of GPS itself, and certainly not because it's computationally intense though.

[Alan Baker]

Riiiiiiiiiight.

And you need to run it on battery... ...when you're in a car.

>
> When running Ski Tracks the phone is in my coat with the screen off
> almost all day, and it still lasts only 3-4 hours on the internal
> battery. The first day this year I forgot the Mophie, and the phone
> was down to 10% by noon. I found a charging station in Summit House
> at Keystone and got it back to 75% over a long lunch. Then it died
> before the last lift.

And 3-4 hours of continuous processing sounds pretty reasonable.

And you've suddenly forgotten that you were JUST running Ski Tracks when
you first mentioned it:

"When skiing if I turn on Ski Tracks and use my Go Pro the battery lasts
at best 3-4 hours. The Moto Android I had before the Mac would run 7-8
hours using Ski Tracks."

See that clever little lie, Liarboy?

You compared an iPhone doing two things to a Moto doing only one.

And now you've conveniently started talking about it as if the only
thing you were doing was Ski Tracks on the iPhone.

>
> It's not the screen. It's the computationally intensive nature of GPS
> apps that I use a lot. The 6s battery is just not up to the task.

So why did you ever buy it?

Oh, wait!

It couldn't be because there's more to making the choice than how large
the battery is, could it?

But moreover, you story has changed.

You've got from claim you have seen a large drop off in battery life to
claiming that it was always sub-standard.

So which is it?

[Alan Baker]

When using a phone for navigation in an aircraft or in a car...

...you can plug it in.

>
> You are incorrect on the form over function decisions that Apple made
> under Ive. What Ive said was that you design a device that compels
> use, but to hell with the fact that the design cannot run a
> compelling but power intensive navigation app that more than a few
> hours without external power or a recharge. Also to hell with fact
> that the thin butterfly was failure prone.

The device can run such software in the context for which using such
software is appropriate: by plugging in a charging cable.

>
> Have you not noticed that recent iPhones and Macs have scrapped
> Ive-inspired designs in favor of increasing function and reliability?
> Do you not see this as a good direction for Apple? Or, you just hung
> up on trying to beat me down?
>
> It's you that's being inconsistent.

LOL!

Recent Macs scrapped a bad keyboard design. They fucked up. It happens.

But as it happens, you can actually check if your story about them
changing the form in that case really happened, and the simple fact is:

It really didn't change the form.

The 16" MacBook Pro that replaces the 15" model with the butterfly
keyboard mechanism is essentially no thicker than the older model.

The 2019 15" MacBook Pro was 0.61" (1.55cm) thick.

The new 2020 model is 0.64" (1.62cm) thick.

The difference is three HUNDREDTHS OF AN INCH.

It weighs more... ...but that's because it is bigger in width and length...

...because it has a bigger screen!

What's more, Jonathan Ive didn't actually leave Apple until some time
AFTER June 2019.

By then, physical designs for every single Apple product being sold
today would have pretty much been cast in stone...

...but that spoils your narrative, doesn't it?