How to get a loaner iPhone
Dr zara
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=18482
Peter Hayes
> When your iPhone battery craps out.
>
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=18482
Why do Apple pull this fast one with batteries?
--
Immunity is better than innoculation.
Peter
Oxford
> > When your iPhone battery craps out.
> >
> > http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=18482
>
> Why do Apple pull this fast one with batteries?
not sure what you mean?
an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
looks like you got fooled into "media hype", not the actual answer.
Snit
colalovesmacs-1C9...@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net on 7/7/07
3:08 PM:
Most users will not want to solder battery cables to their $500 phone.
--
€ If A = B then B = A (known as the "symmetric property of equality")
€ Incest and sex are not identical (only a pervert would disagree)
€ One can be actually guilty of a crime but neither tried nor convicted
ed
news:colalovesmacs-1C9...@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net...
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
>> > When your iPhone battery craps out.
>> >
>> > http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=18482
>>
>> Why do Apple pull this fast one with batteries?
>
> not sure what you mean?
>
> an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
> entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
$500-$600 phone...
Oxford
> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
>
> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
> $500-$600 phone...
you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
have a new battery... in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
at this level.
Snit
6:11 PM:
The pics I have seen show it soldered... do you have contrary info?
--
€ Different version numbers refer to different versions
€ Macs are Macs and Apple is still making and selling Macs
€ The early IBM PCs and Commodores shipped with an OS in ROM
ed
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
>> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
>>
>> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
>> $500-$600 phone...
>
> you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> have a new battery...
that's a load of crap dude.
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
it's *clearly* soldered.
> in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
>
> apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> at this level.
if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
difference between solder and 'clips? :D
Alan Baker
"ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> "Oxford" <colalo...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:colalovesmacs-875...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
> > "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
> >> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
> >>
> >> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
> >> $500-$600 phone...
> >
> > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > have a new battery...
>
> that's a load of crap dude.
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>
> it's *clearly* soldered.
The leads are clearly soldered to something, but is that something a
permanent part of the battery, or is it just "clipped" to it?
>
> > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> >
> > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> > at this level.
>
> if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> difference between solder and 'clips? :D
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Oxford
> > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > have a new battery...
>
> that's a load of crap dude.
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>
> it's *clearly* soldered.
and i never said it wasn't, did you even look at this picture?
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
that's incredibly simple to swap out with 2 clips.
> > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> >
> > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> > at this level.
>
> if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> difference between solder and 'clips? :D
ed, you're a moron, you illustrate that every day on these boards.
2 of these come free with a $19 battery in 3-5 years and you are done.
ed
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
>> > have a new battery...
>>
>> that's a load of crap dude.
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>>
>> it's *clearly* soldered.
>
> and i never said it wasn't, did you even look at this picture?
>
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
yes, the one clearly labeled "...battery contacts are soldered on..." :D
> that's incredibly simple to swap out with 2 clips.
actually, it's not.
>> > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
>> > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
>> >
>> > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
>> > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
>> > at this level.
>>
>> if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
>> difference between solder and 'clips? :D
>
> ed, you're a moron, you illustrate that every day on these boards.
sorry dude, you're clearly the idiot, evidenced by your comments in this
thread (amongst others).
> 2 of these come free with a $19 battery in 3-5 years and you are done.
>
> http://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=723
no way those things fit in the iphone case dude (and those generally called
'taps' not 'clips' as you've been referring to them).
Alan Baker
"ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
I think the point he is making is that you assumed a m
Ed: I think the point he is making is that you assumed one meaning for
"clips" when he had another in mind.
ed
news:alangbaker-24864...@news.telus.net...
alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he was
talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the battery is
soldered on. :D
ZnU
noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
> Dr zara <jac...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > When your iPhone battery craps out.
> >
> > http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=18482
>
> Why do Apple pull this fast one with batteries?
If they made it a walk-in operation (rather than having to send the
phone off), I wouldn't really care. Having to send the phone off is
slightly obnoxious.
I suppose when the time comes (assuming the phone isn't retired by the
anyway), I'll just stick the SIM into my old unlocked Nokia for three
days. The charge for the rental phone is a little nutty. (I might pay
$10.)
--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006
Sandman
<colalovesmacs-9AE...@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net>,
Oxford <colalo...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > > have a new battery...
> >
> > that's a load of crap dude.
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
> >
> > it's *clearly* soldered.
>
> and i never said it wasn't
Apart, of course, from the fact that you stated, above, that it was
"Just a couple clips" as opposed to "just a little soldering".
iPhone battery is soldered to the phone. That sucks. Admit it.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
mr-2FDF45.09...@News.Individual.NET on 7/8/07 12:20 AM:
Oxford is trying to claim, I think, that since one can snip the wires and
then use technology other than soldering to attach a new battery then that
means he never implied it was not soldered. This is contrary to my
understanding of his past comments and, as far as I know, contrary to how
everyone else who has commented on his statements thought he meant. Either
way, however, I agree that it seems a poor design decision to solder
batteries in the phone - almost beyond belief bad as far as I can tell. The
battery should be relatively quick and easy to replace. The worst I could
"forgive" was having to take the phone to an authorized center and having to
wait a few minutes. To have to send it off and wait a few days is just
absurd - that is unless Apple can give some very, very good explanation
(something like a huge environmental advantage).
--
€ The tilde in an OS X path does *not* mean "the hard drive only"
€ Things which are not the same are not "identical"
€ The word "ouch" is not a sure sign of agreement.
Steve de Mena
Those are *HUGE*. There is no room for those
clips inside the iPhone.
Steve
Peter Hayes
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-2FDF45.09...@News.Individual.NET on 7/8/07 12:20 AM:
>
> > In article
> > <colalovesmacs-9AE...@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net>,
> > Oxford <colalo...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>> you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> >>>> have a new battery...
> >>>
> >>> that's a load of crap dude.
> >>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> >>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> >>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
> >>>
> >>> it's *clearly* soldered.
> >>
> >> and i never said it wasn't
> >
> > Apart, of course, from the fact that you stated, above, that it was
> > "Just a couple clips" as opposed to "just a little soldering".
> >
> > iPhone battery is soldered to the phone. That sucks. Admit it.
> >
> Oxford is trying to claim, I think, that since one can snip the wires and
> then use technology other than soldering to attach a new battery then that
> means he never implied it was not soldered.
This requires the replacement battery to come with pre-soldered wires.
Even assuming it does, there's no way the connectors Oxford suggests
will ever fit inside the phone.
> This is contrary to my
> understanding of his past comments and, as far as I know, contrary to how
> everyone else who has commented on his statements thought he meant.
You mean you didn't hear the crunching of Oxford's reverse gear?
> Either
> way, however, I agree that it seems a poor design decision to solder
> batteries in the phone - almost beyond belief bad as far as I can tell. The
> battery should be relatively quick and easy to replace. The worst I could
> "forgive" was having to take the phone to an authorized center and having to
> wait a few minutes. To have to send it off and wait a few days is just
> absurd - that is unless Apple can give some very, very good explanation
> (something like a huge environmental advantage).
It's done purely to maintain a monopoly on battery replacement.
Peter Hayes
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
> > > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > > have a new battery...
> >
> > that's a load of crap dude.
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
> >
> > it's *clearly* soldered.
>
> and i never said it wasn't, did you even look at this picture?
>
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
>
> that's incredibly simple to swap out with 2 clips.
You'll need 3 "clips", the battery is connected with black, white and
red wires. Seems you can't count to three, dude...
> > > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> > > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> > >
> > > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> > > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> > > at this level.
> >
> > if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> > difference between solder and 'clips? :D
>
> ed, you're a moron, you illustrate that every day on these boards.
>
> 2 of these come free with a $19 battery in 3-5 years and you are done.
>
> http://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=723
Do the *three* come *free* with the battery? They'll not fit anyway,
those connectors are far too big.
Face it, sunshine, Apple have blundered here, you're defending the
indefensible.
Tim Adams
"ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> "Oxford" <colalo...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:colalovesmacs-875...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
> > "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
> >> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
> >>
> >> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
> >> $500-$600 phone...
> >
> > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > have a new battery...
>
> that's a load of crap dude.
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>
> it's *clearly* soldered.
Which addresses the fact that an owner could attach clips to the existing wires
and the wires on a new battery and then connect them together just how? No
soldering involved.
>
> > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> >
> > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> > at this level.
>
> if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> difference between solder and 'clips? :D
--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
Oxford
> > >
> > Oxford is trying to claim, I think, that since one can snip the wires and
> > then use technology other than soldering to attach a new battery then that
> > means he never implied it was not soldered.
>
> This requires the replacement battery to come with pre-soldered wires.
> Even assuming it does, there's no way the connectors Oxford suggests
> will ever fit inside the phone.
all you do is snip the existing wires and put on the connector and close
the clasp, done. sure, perhaps not that exact connector will fit, but
rest assured something very similar will come with iphone replacement
batteries in 3-5 years.
> > This is contrary to my
> > understanding of his past comments and, as far as I know, contrary to how
> > everyone else who has commented on his statements thought he meant.
>
> You mean you didn't hear the crunching of Oxford's reverse gear?
where did i reverse gears? don't lie peter.
> > Either
> > way, however, I agree that it seems a poor design decision to solder
> > batteries in the phone - almost beyond belief bad as far as I can tell. The
> > battery should be relatively quick and easy to replace. The worst I could
> > "forgive" was having to take the phone to an authorized center and having to
> > wait a few minutes. To have to send it off and wait a few days is just
> > absurd - that is unless Apple can give some very, very good explanation
> > (something like a huge environmental advantage).
>
> It's done purely to maintain a monopoly on battery replacement.
no it's not, it's done for "reliability" reasons, plain and simple.
if you want another battery, just order it. i guess your idea they have
a "monopoly" just died...
Oxford
> > and i never said it wasn't, did you even look at this picture?
> >
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> >
> > that's incredibly simple to swap out with 2 clips.
>
> You'll need 3 "clips", the battery is connected with black, white and
> red wires. Seems you can't count to three, dude...
i didn't see the black at first, my bad... but on 2nd look, i see you
won't need to do any soldering OR clips at all! look at the battery,
then look at the "tapped" PCB board... ah, so you just remove that and
slide another battery in place.
so problem is solved! no soldering required!
> > > > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> > > > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> > > >
> > > > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> > > > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> > > > at this level.
> > >
> > > if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> > > difference between solder and 'clips? :D
> >
> > ed, you're a moron, you illustrate that every day on these boards.
> >
> > 2 of these come free with a $19 battery in 3-5 years and you are done.
> >
> > http://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=723
>
> Do the *three* come *free* with the battery? They'll not fit anyway,
> those connectors are far too big.
now you don't need them so it doesn't matter.
> Face it, sunshine, Apple have blundered here, you're defending the
> indefensible.
no, it just shows you know very little about electronics.
Oxford
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
>
> yes, the one clearly labeled "...battery contacts are soldered on..." :D
>
> > that's incredibly simple to swap out with 2 clips.
>
> actually, it's not.
no longer needed, see my previous post.
> >> > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> >> > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> >> >
> >> > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> >> > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> >> > at this level.
> >>
> >> if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> >> difference between solder and 'clips? :D
> >
> > ed, you're a moron, you illustrate that every day on these boards.
>
> sorry dude, you're clearly the idiot, evidenced by your comments in this
> thread (amongst others).
see my previous post, the battery replacement issue has been solved.
> > 2 of these come free with a $19 battery in 3-5 years and you are done.
> >
> > http://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=723
>
> no way those things fit in the iphone case dude (and those generally called
> 'taps' not 'clips' as you've been referring to them).
perhaps not "those exact" clips, but something similar. but it no longer
matters, the PCB board is just tapped on, so it just pulls off and you
put another battery on. no soldering required.
Oxford
> alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he was
> talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the battery is
> soldered on. :D
no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
required.
with electronics there is always an easier way, something you have yet
to learn.
Peter Hayes
> In article <RkYji.18619$2v1....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
> > "Oxford" <colalo...@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:colalovesmacs-875...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
> > > "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
> > >> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
> > >>
> > >> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
> > >> $500-$600 phone...
> > >
> > > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > > have a new battery...
> >
> > that's a load of crap dude.
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
> >
> > it's *clearly* soldered.
>
> Which addresses the fact that an owner could attach clips to the existing
> wires and the wires on a new battery and then connect them together just
> how? No soldering involved.
Is there room within the iPhone to safely connect the cables?
The user also has to open up the phone, do the work and reassemble it.
It's easy-ish for anyone with mechanical skills and electrical knowledge
but it's certainly not something Joe Bloggs will contemplate
undertaking.
What's wrong with a standard user-replaceable battery? The user should
be able to carry a charged spare. Apple have boobed here.
Dr zara
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
>> > >
>> > Oxford is trying to claim, I think, that since one can snip the wires
>> > and
>> > then use technology other than soldering to attach a new battery then
>> > that
>> > means he never implied it was not soldered.
>>
>> This requires the replacement battery to come with pre-soldered wires.
>> Even assuming it does, there's no way the connectors Oxford suggests
>> will ever fit inside the phone.
>
> all you do is snip the existing wires and put on the connector and close
> the clasp, done. sure, perhaps not that exact connector will fit, but
> rest assured something very similar will come with iphone replacement
> batteries in 3-5 years.
Not a very good method at all. Not reliable at all. If it were, they would
be using that system in airplanes . As for your 3 -5 year projection -
simply stupid. You are not a "futurest" by any stretch. The iPod has been
here for ages, and apple hasn't come up with a viable battery swap yet.
> snip
Peter Hayes
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
> > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he was
> > talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the battery is
> > soldered on. :D
>
> no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
> the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
> required.
Whatever the replacement method, the user has to open up the phone to
replace the battery. What's wrong with standard slide in batteries so
Joe Bloggs could swap batteries and carry a hot spare should he wish?
Oxford
> > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
> > the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
> > required.
>
> Whatever the replacement method, the user has to open up the phone to
> replace the battery. What's wrong with standard slide in batteries so
> Joe Bloggs could swap batteries and carry a hot spare should he wish?
it makes the device thicker, less reliable, plus a battery like that
rarely needs replacing anyway. people are thinking about traditional
cell phones in this area, they haven't yet understood this isn't a cell
phone.
Q: Why didn't Apple make the iPhone battery easily user-accessible?
Neither Apple nor AT&T/Cingular have made any statements on this topic.
However, it is again an engineering decision, as with the iPod. On the
iPod, the decision wasn't made for "planned obsolescense", to force
people into buying new iPods, or to make people buy "overpriced"
batteries, as there are numerous ways to replace the battery from many
sources, including Apple, for as little as $20. In the case of the iPod,
it was an engineering decision, allowing them to make the device
smaller, thinner, and lighter than competitive devices, and not covered
with access doors, by eliminating traditional mechanisms and internal
design required for "user-accessible" battery access.
In the case of iPhone, it has been done for the same reasons: iPhone is
the thinnest and lightest phone anywhere near its class, while also
being a much more powerful device, with more functionality and
capability in the same size than other devices on the market. This would
likely be seen as a very reasonable tradeoff for iPhone's target market.
iPhone is also more likely to be docked and/or connected to a computer
via USB or attached to a powered dock for music playback, and would thus
also be charging while connected. This is also seen as another
differentiation from how many other phones, even in the smartphone/PDA
class, are used. One other difference with the mobile phone market, even
with higher end phones, is that many customers obtain a new phone when
the contract is renewed because of the carrier subsidy for a new phone
or a desire for the latest device features, often before a new battery
is needed.
Snit
1i0xg7d.e8fa6o65t4bkN%noti...@btinternet.com on 7/8/07 2:32 AM:
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
>> mr-2FDF45.09...@News.Individual.NET on 7/8/07 12:20 AM:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <colalovesmacs-9AE...@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net>,
>>> Oxford <colalo...@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
>>>>>> have a new battery...
>>>>>
>>>>> that's a load of crap dude.
>>>>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
>>>>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
>>>>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>>>>>
>>>>> it's *clearly* soldered.
>>>>
>>>> and i never said it wasn't
>>>
>>> Apart, of course, from the fact that you stated, above, that it was
>>> "Just a couple clips" as opposed to "just a little soldering".
>>>
>>> iPhone battery is soldered to the phone. That sucks. Admit it.
>>>
>> Oxford is trying to claim, I think, that since one can snip the wires and
>> then use technology other than soldering to attach a new battery then that
>> means he never implied it was not soldered.
>
> This requires the replacement battery to come with pre-soldered wires.
> Even assuming it does, there's no way the connectors Oxford suggests
> will ever fit inside the phone.
Don't get me wrong - I agree with what you are saying. The "clips" Oxford
pointed to would be unlikely to work.
>> This is contrary to my
>> understanding of his past comments and, as far as I know, contrary to how
>> everyone else who has commented on his statements thought he meant.
>
> You mean you didn't hear the crunching of Oxford's reverse gear?
I am giving him every benefit of the doubt - and *still* find his comments
lacking. :)
>> Either way, however, I agree that it seems a poor design decision to solder
>> batteries in the phone - almost beyond belief bad as far as I can tell. The
>> battery should be relatively quick and easy to replace. The worst I could
>> "forgive" was having to take the phone to an authorized center and having to
>> wait a few minutes. To have to send it off and wait a few days is just
>> absurd - that is unless Apple can give some very, very good explanation
>> (something like a huge environmental advantage).
>>
> It's done purely to maintain a monopoly on battery replacement.
I cannot think of any other realistic reason...
--
€ OS X is partially based on BSD (esp. FreeBSD)
€ OS X users are at far less risk of malware then are XP users
€ Photoshop is an image editing application
Snit
teadams$2$0$0$3-3A0597.06...@news.west.earthlink.net on 7/8/07 3:47
AM:
> In article <RkYji.18619$2v1....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> "Oxford" <colalo...@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:colalovesmacs-875...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
>>> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
>>>>> entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
>>>>
>>>> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
>>>> $500-$600 phone...
>>>
>>> you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
>>> have a new battery...
>>
>> that's a load of crap dude.
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>>
>> it's *clearly* soldered.
>>
> Which addresses the fact that an owner could attach clips to the existing
> wires and the wires on a new battery and then connect them together just how?
> No soldering involved.
What type "clips" do you think would fit in the space allotted by the
iPhone?
--
€ A partial subset is not synonymous with the whole
€ A person's actions speak more about him than what others say
€ Apple doesn't provide as many options as the rest of the PC industry
Peter Hayes
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
> > > the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
> > > required.
> >
> > Whatever the replacement method, the user has to open up the phone to
> > replace the battery. What's wrong with standard slide in batteries so
> > Joe Bloggs could swap batteries and carry a hot spare should he wish?
>
> it makes the device thicker, less reliable,
I've had mobiles for over ten years. Their reliability has never been an
issue. And if you're relying on tape of all things to secure the battery
to the PCB, well, I can't think of a less reliable method. You need some
form of clamp mechanism, and once you do that you might as well engineer
in user replacement.
> plus a battery like that rarely needs replacing anyway.
What if you want to carry a spare battery?
> people are thinking about traditional cell phones in this area, they
> haven't yet understood this isn't a cell phone.
How does that change the basic premise that the battery could have been
made user replaceable without any cost in reliability?
Most design decisions are tradeoffs between competing factors, Here we
have a tradeoff between looks and user (in)convenience, and the decision
taken turns out to be dumb because it places too high a burden on the
user when the battery dies. Oh, and the cost involved seems to have been
kept a secret until after the phone goes on sale.
<snip something c&p from who knows where>
> One other difference with the mobile phone market, even
> with higher end phones, is that many customers obtain a new phone when
> the contract is renewed because of the carrier subsidy for a new phone
> or a desire for the latest device features, often before a new battery
> is needed.
So you're now saying the iPhone isn't going to be the mobile for the
next 80-100 years?
Oxford
> > it makes the device thicker, less reliable,
>
> I've had mobiles for over ten years. Their reliability has never been an
> issue. And if you're relying on tape of all things to secure the battery
> to the PCB, well, I can't think of a less reliable method. You need some
> form of clamp mechanism, and once you do that you might as well engineer
> in user replacement.
BUT you've never had an Apple iPhone correct?
You are basing your entire argument on entirely obsolete equipment. All
the cell phones in europe are now completely obsolete. So you comments
aren't valid in the least. The iPhone changes the ENTIRE cell phone
market, you are completely ignoring that fact.
> > plus a battery like that rarely needs replacing anyway.
>
> What if you want to carry a spare battery?
then connect another battery up! are you brain dead Peter? there are
HUNDREDS of these devices already on the market... here is just ONE:
http://www.batterygeek.net/Batterygeek_100_Hr_iPhone_and_iPod_Battery_Pac
k_p/geekpod_100_black.htm
> > people are thinking about traditional cell phones in this area, they
> > haven't yet understood this isn't a cell phone.
>
> How does that change the basic premise that the battery could have been
> made user replaceable without any cost in reliability?
how can you cut a square hole in a device without lessening its
strength? please use logic next time Peter.
What if a customer used a poor quality battery? That would REFLECT on
Apple, not the customer that made a poor choice. TRUST ME, all those
false ideas have been studied, the only way to make a reliable device
that lasts 3-5 years is build it INTO the device.
> Most design decisions are tradeoffs between competing factors, Here we
> have a tradeoff between looks and user (in)convenience, and the decision
> taken turns out to be dumb because it places too high a burden on the
> user when the battery dies. Oh, and the cost involved seems to have been
> kept a secret until after the phone goes on sale.
>
> <snip something c&p from who knows where>
??? Are you perplexed by Google as well?
> > One other difference with the mobile phone market, even
> > with higher end phones, is that many customers obtain a new phone when
> > the contract is renewed because of the carrier subsidy for a new phone
> > or a desire for the latest device features, often before a new battery
> > is needed.
>
> So you're now saying the iPhone isn't going to be the mobile for the
> next 80-100 years?
It depends, the iPhone will be the main cell phone for the next few
decades, WE ALL KNOW THAT, but in the 80 year time frame, a new company
could and probably WILL appear.
-
Oxford
> What's wrong with a standard user-replaceable battery? The user should
> be able to carry a charged spare. Apple have boobed here.
if you keep your for phone for 4 years or more, and don't want to spend
$20 to replace the battery, then just buy one of these. Apple isn't
trying to make money off a battery, numbnuts...
http://www.batterygeek.net/Batterygeek_100_Hr_iPhone_and_iPod_Battery_Pac
k_p/geekpod_100_black.htm
ed
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he was
>> talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the battery is
>> soldered on. :D
>
> no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
> the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
> required.
1- if that's the case, why do you think you need taps to connect a new
battery?
2- there's clearly two globs of solder there.
> with electronics there is always an easier way, something you have yet
> to learn.
you clearly just don't know what you're talking about.
ed
news:teadams$2$0$0$3-3A0597.06...@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <RkYji.18619$2v1....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> "Oxford" <colalo...@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:colalovesmacs-875...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
>> > "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
>> >> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
>> >>
>> >> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
>> >> $500-$600 phone...
>> >
>> > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
>> > have a new battery...
>>
>> that's a load of crap dude.
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
>> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
>>
>> it's *clearly* soldered.
>
> Which addresses the fact that an owner could attach clips to the existing
> wires
> and the wires on a new battery and then connect them together just how?
it addresses it in that oxford said replacing the battery in the iphone is
'as easy' as replacing one on the ipod, implying that he thought the battery
was attached with a easily removable connector like on an ipod. his mention
of 'clips' was an afterthought when this was brought up. not to mention the
'clips' he keeps mentioning are taps, and there's no way in hell they fit.
> No
> soldering involved.
also no way to close the iphone back up with the connectors oxford had in
mind.
<snip>
ed
> "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he was
> > talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the battery is
> > soldered on. :D
>
> no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
no, no it's not.
<snip>
Alan Baker
ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
Peter Hayes
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > > it makes the device thicker, less reliable,
> >
> > I've had mobiles for over ten years. Their reliability has never been an
> > issue. And if you're relying on tape of all things to secure the battery
> > to the PCB, well, I can't think of a less reliable method. You need some
> > form of clamp mechanism, and once you do that you might as well engineer
> > in user replacement.
>
> BUT you've never had an Apple iPhone correct?
>
> You are basing your entire argument on entirely obsolete equipment. All
> the cell phones in europe are now completely obsolete. So you comments
> aren't valid in the least. The iPhone changes the ENTIRE cell phone
> market, you are completely ignoring that fact.
Stop believing all that marketing babble. It has nothing to do with the
discussion over soldering in the battery.
> > How does that change the basic premise that the battery could have been
> > made user replaceable without any cost in reliability?
> how can you cut a square hole in a device without lessening its
> strength? please use logic next time Peter.
Are you saying the iPhone case lacks strength? At that price and with
Apple's profit margin it should be made of carbon fibre.
> What if a customer used a poor quality battery? That would REFLECT on
> Apple,
That's essentially the same argument that Microsoft used to stop OEMs
offering dual boot PCs. And it's just as fallacious now as it was then.
<snip nonsense>
> > > One other difference with the mobile phone market, even
> > > with higher end phones, is that many customers obtain a new phone when
> > > the contract is renewed because of the carrier subsidy for a new phone
> > > or a desire for the latest device features, often before a new battery
> > > is needed.
> >
> > So you're now saying the iPhone isn't going to be the mobile for the
> > next 80-100 years?
>
> It depends, the iPhone will be the main cell phone for the next few
> decades, WE ALL KNOW THAT, but in the 80 year time frame, a new company
> could and probably WILL appear.
So the iPhone will be "the main cell phone for the next few decades" or
"many customers obtain a new phone [...] often before a new battery is
needed" which is around five years. Hmmm... Spot the inconsistency.
Peter Hayes
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with a standard user-replaceable battery? The user should
> > be able to carry a charged spare. Apple have boobed here.
>
> if you keep your for phone for 4 years or more, and don't want to spend
> $20 to replace the battery, then just buy one of these. Apple isn't
> trying to make money off a battery, numbnuts...
You reckon?
"Replacement costs owners of the $499 or $599 device $79 plus $6.95
shipping charges. The process takes three business days, and Apple will
offer a loan unit to tide users over during this period for an
additional $29 charge. That's $108 to replace a $20 (approx) battery.
Some markup from a captive market
> http://www.batterygeek.net/Batterygeek_100_Hr_iPhone_and_iPod_Battery_Pac
> k_p/geekpod_100_black.htm
Handy for emergencies, but hardly something for everyday use, kinda
kills the image.
Peter Hayes
> In article <1183925425.8...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 8, 6:20 am, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > > > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he
> > > > was talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the
> > > > battery is soldered on. :D
> > >
> > > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
> >
> > no, no it's not.
> >
> > <snip>
>
> I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
True, but taping the battery on is pretty amateurish.
Tim Adams
Oxford <colalo...@mac.com> wrote:
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > > and i never said it wasn't, did you even look at this picture?
> > >
> > > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> > >
> > > that's incredibly simple to swap out with 2 clips.
> >
> > You'll need 3 "clips", the battery is connected with black, white and
> > red wires. Seems you can't count to three, dude...
>
> i didn't see the black at first, my bad... but on 2nd look, i see you
> won't need to do any soldering OR clips at all! look at the battery,
> then look at the "tapped" PCB board... ah, so you just remove that and
> slide another battery in place.
Actually it looks as if this 'circuit board' IS part of the battery. The kapton
tape is merely for insulation/protections from shorts.
>
> so problem is solved! no soldering required!
>
> > > > > in 3-5 years... i'd rather save $50-60 than use
> > > > > regular batteries or have a less sturdy phone.
> > > > >
> > > > > apple as always has the best interest for the consumer in mind, even
> > > > > though the less "educated" like "ed" won't ever understand electronics
> > > > > at this level.
> > > >
> > > > if i'm 'less educated', what are you, given that you can't even tell the
> > > > difference between solder and 'clips? :D
> > >
> > > ed, you're a moron, you illustrate that every day on these boards.
> > >
> > > 2 of these come free with a $19 battery in 3-5 years and you are done.
> > >
> > > http://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=723
> >
> > Do the *three* come *free* with the battery? They'll not fit anyway,
> > those connectors are far too big.
>
> now you don't need them so it doesn't matter.
>
> > Face it, sunshine, Apple have blundered here, you're defending the
> > indefensible.
>
> no, it just shows you know very little about electronics.
--
Tim Adams
noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
> Tim Adams <teadams$2$0$0$3...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <RkYji.18619$2v1....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
> > "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Oxford" <colalo...@mac.com> wrote in message
> > > news:colalovesmacs-875...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
> > > > "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> > an iphone battery will be the usual cost $20-$25 after 3-5 years and
> > > >> > entirely replaceable by the user, just like any iPod ever created.
> > > >>
> > > >> um, yeah, if the use is comfortable desoldering and soldering their
> > > >> $500-$600 phone...
> > > >
> > > > you clearly haven't seen an iphone open, just a couple clips and you
> > > > have a new battery...
> > >
> > > that's a load of crap dude.
> > > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/
> > > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone23.html
> > > http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/iphonetakeapart/source/iphone24.html
> > >
> > > it's *clearly* soldered.
> >
> > Which addresses the fact that an owner could attach clips to the existing
> > wires and the wires on a new battery and then connect them together just
> > how? No soldering involved.
>
> Is there room within the iPhone to safely connect the cables?
With the 'clips' that this thread has linked to - NO, however I have seen some
real small wire splice connectors that might. Not having an iPhone in pieces in
front of me I can't give a positive answer.
>
> The user also has to open up the phone, do the work and reassemble it.
> It's easy-ish for anyone with mechanical skills and electrical knowledge
> but it's certainly not something Joe Bloggs will contemplate
> undertaking.
That is the problem and the reason Apple is offering to do it for you. They have
the tools and the experienced people to do the work.
>
> What's wrong with a standard user-replaceable battery? The user should
> be able to carry a charged spare. Apple have boobed here.
--
Tim Adams
"ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
But the 'clips' linked to are not the only method of connecting wires together.
I've seen some real small wire splice that _might_ fit but without an opened
iPhone and the spices in front of me, couldn't say one way or another for sure.
>
> <snip>
Alan Baker
noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
LOL
Oh, come on, Peter!
Look at the tape. Look at the inside of any extremely compact electronic
device and ask yourself: what is that tape for?
Peter Hayes
> In article <1i0yceo.nsfwza16h90xfN%noti...@btinternet.com>,
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1183925425.8...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Jul 8, 6:20 am, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > > > > > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he
> > > > > > was talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the
> > > > > > battery is soldered on. :D
> > > > >
> > > > > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
> > > >
> > > > no, no it's not.
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > >
> > > I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
> >
> > True, but taping the battery on is pretty amateurish.
>
> LOL
>
> Oh, come on, Peter!
>
> Look at the tape. Look at the inside of any extremely compact electronic
> device and ask yourself: what is that tape for?
To insulate, that's all.
If it was employed to secure the PCB to the battery it would have to
maintain its strength through the lifetime of the battery. This seems to
be a risky and to me amateurish solution, whereas soldering is reliable.
It looks to me like the terminals could be part of the battery, but for
all we know the PCB is clipped into the battery.
Alan Baker
noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <1i0yceo.nsfwza16h90xfN%noti...@btinternet.com>,
> > noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <1183925425.8...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Jul 8, 6:20 am, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he
> > > > > > > was talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the
> > > > > > > battery is soldered on. :D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
> > > > >
> > > > > no, no it's not.
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
> > >
> > > True, but taping the battery on is pretty amateurish.
> >
> > LOL
> >
> > Oh, come on, Peter!
> >
> > Look at the tape. Look at the inside of any extremely compact electronic
> > device and ask yourself: what is that tape for?
>
> To insulate, that's all.
Right. So why imagine that it's "taping the battery on"?
>
> If it was employed to secure the PCB to the battery it would have to
> maintain its strength through the lifetime of the battery. This seems to
> be a risky and to me amateurish solution, whereas soldering is reliable.
But you've already agreed that we don't know that it's taped on.
>
> It looks to me like the terminals could be part of the battery, but for
> all we know the PCB is clipped into the battery.
Right. So why the pejoratives?
ed
news:alangbaker-38CB7...@news.telus.net...
> In article <1183925425.8...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 8, 6:20 am, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
>> > "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>> > > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what he
>> > > was
>> > > talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that the
>> > > battery is
>> > > soldered on. :D
>> >
>> > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
>>
>> no, no it's not.
>>
>> <snip>
>
> I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
(from anothe post:)
> Look at the tape. Look at the inside of any extremely compact electronic
> device and ask yourself: what is that tape for?
the tape is for insulation so you don't have a short.
but if oxford insists on continuing this line of argument, there's an easy
way for him to prove himself right- he says he's got an iphone (or 4), so if
it's really that easy to open and replace the battery, he should have no
problem pulling his apart and disconnecting the battery, right? so let's
see those pictures! :D
Dr zara
> In article <1i0yceo.nsfwza16h90xfN%noti...@btinternet.com>,
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <1183925425.8...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> > ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Jul 8, 6:20 am, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
>> > > > "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>> > > > > alan, i sincerely think oxford is a dumbass and isn't sure what
>> > > > > he
>> > > > > was talking about, and is trying to backtrack given proof that
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > battery is soldered on. :D
>> > > >
>> > > > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
>> > >
>> > > no, no it's not.
>> > >
>> > > <snip>
>> >
>> > I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
>>
>> True, but taping the battery on is pretty amateurish.
>
> LOL
>
> Oh, come on, Peter!
>
> Look at the tape. Look at the inside of any extremely compact electronic
> device and ask yourself: what is that tape for?
insulation.
Oxford
> > BUT you've never had an Apple iPhone correct?
> >
> > You are basing your entire argument on entirely obsolete equipment. All
> > the cell phones in europe are now completely obsolete. So your comments
> > aren't valid in the least. The iPhone changes the ENTIRE cell phone
> > market, you are completely ignoring that fact.
>
> Stop believing all that marketing babble. It has nothing to do with the
> discussion over soldering in the battery.
what marketing babble? i haven't seen any lately... what are you
referring to? the iphone is exactly and MORE than what anyone has said
it would be. have you even used one? if not, please don't reply since
you have know IDEA about the iphone.
> > > How does that change the basic premise that the battery could have been
> > > made user replaceable without any cost in reliability?
>
> > how can you cut a square hole in a device without lessening its
> > strength? please use logic next time Peter.
>
> Are you saying the iPhone case lacks strength? At that price and with
> Apple's profit margin it should be made of carbon fibre.
how do you figure? i said IF apple had cut a huge square in it, like you
are suggesting, it would be weak. it's built like a little tank peter,
you don't want to go cutting it up to replace a battery that will work
for the life of the product anyway.
> > It depends, the iPhone will be the main cell phone for the next few
> > decades, WE ALL KNOW THAT, but in the 80 year time frame, a new company
> > could and probably WILL appear.
>
> So the iPhone will be "the main cell phone for the next few decades" or
> "many customers obtain a new phone [...] often before a new battery is
> needed" which is around five years. Hmmm... Spot the inconsistency.
people will get a new model of iphone before the battery ever goes out
is what i'm saying. the "hand me down" iphones will get a new $20
battery and off it goes into another person's hands for 4-5 years,
repeat.
Oxford
> > i didn't see the black at first, my bad... but on 2nd look, i see you
> > won't need to do any soldering OR clips at all! look at the battery,
> > then look at the "tapped" PCB board... ah, so you just remove that and
> > slide another battery in place.
>
> Actually it looks as if this 'circuit board' IS part of the battery. The
> kapton
> tape is merely for insulation/protections from shorts.
doubtful, but we should know for sure in a few years...
Mitch
Hayes <noti...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > plus a battery like that rarely needs replacing anyway.
>
> What if you want to carry a spare battery?
Are you saying the user needs this option specifically, or he needs a
way to make sure he doesn't run low on power?
Pick carefully; your argument hinges on whether you understand why you
are carrying the battery in the first place!
> > people are thinking about traditional cell phones in this area, they
> > haven't yet understood this isn't a cell phone.
>
> How does that change the basic premise that the battery could have been
> made user replaceable without any cost in reliability?
You haven't established that. You have only established that you don't
know why it should be less well-engineered.
So I'll tell you a couple: dust, water-resistance, removable battery
doors, losing small parts, careless fingers inside casing, low-end
third-party batteries, warranty issues, reputation issues....
I know, you say that such damage doesn't happen very often, or doesn't
amount to much. Apple holds itself to a higher standard. They're trying
to make the better product in as many possible ways. Honestly.
> Most design decisions are tradeoffs between competing factors, Here we
> have a tradeoff between looks and user (in)convenience, and the decision
> taken turns out to be dumb because it places too high a burden on the
> user when the battery dies.
Well, how can you make the comparions before you understood the reasons
to compare to?
Yes, you could easily come up with the decision that the inconvenience
is not outweighed by the advantages. Apple did not, however.
> Oh, and the cost involved seems to have been
> kept a secret until after the phone goes on sale.
Almost everything was. But it was also revealed right away; people
concerned could easily just decide not to buy it. (You've gotta believe
no one in the first round cared about battery replacement!)
> > One other difference with the mobile phone market, even
> > with higher end phones, is that many customers obtain a new phone when
> > the contract is renewed because of the carrier subsidy for a new phone
> > or a desire for the latest device features, often before a new battery
> > is needed.
>
> So you're now saying the iPhone isn't going to be the mobile for the
> next 80-100 years?
No, he's saying many will replace it with another at end of contract.
Mitch
Hayes <noti...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > how can you cut a square hole in a device without lessening its
> > strength? please use logic next time Peter.
>
> Are you saying the iPhone case lacks strength? At that price and with
> Apple's profit margin it should be made of carbon fibre.
Or harder, but it's still not the point. Apple is trying to build the
best possible, not merely acceptable. You don't put big holes in a
product you want handled a lot, no matter what the rest of the case is
made from.
> > What if a customer used a poor quality battery? That would REFLECT on
> > Apple,
>
> That's essentially the same argument that Microsoft used to stop OEMs
> offering dual boot PCs. And it's just as fallacious now as it was then.
It's not fallacious; if Microsoft allows dual-boot options in OEM
equipment, their OS will be compared to other OSes more often and with
more criticism. That's not a guess or error.
Apple is choosing the most reliable method of design that keeps a
positive reflection on Apple itself (or at least as positive as they
actually make the device).
> > It depends, the iPhone will be the main cell phone for the next few
> > decades, WE ALL KNOW THAT, but in the 80 year time frame, a new company
> > could and probably WILL appear.
>
> So the iPhone will be "the main cell phone for the next few decades" or
> "many customers obtain a new phone [...] often before a new battery is
> needed" which is around five years. Hmmm... Spot the inconsistency.
Oh, come on -- you can't be this childish and stupid.
Oxford is saying that the style and design of iPhone is going to last a
very long time -- not that a specific unit will last that long time. He
is talking about how it affects the market or devices, not how long one
single model will last a user.
Mitch
Hayes <noti...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Replacement costs owners of the $499 or $599 device $79 plus $6.95
> shipping charges. The process takes three business days, and Apple will
> offer a loan unit to tide users over during this period for an
> additional $29 charge. That's $108 to replace a $20 (approx) battery.
> Some markup from a captive market
Massively erroneous figuring here, anyway; weren't you criticizing bad
logic before?
If the battery costs $20 and Apple gets $79, that's all you figure into
the markup. Not the shipping and loaner costs also; those are entirely
separate costs, and much higher than the battery cost also.
Mitch
<ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
> > the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
> > required.
>
> 1- if that's the case, why do you think you need taps to connect a new
> battery?
> 2- there's clearly two globs of solder there.
Is Oxford thinking that the PCB board is taped to the battery but makes
no contact with the battery?
I wonder if he thinks the PCB is ot part of it.
> > with electronics there is always an easier way, something you have yet
> > to learn.
>
> you clearly just don't know what you're talking about.
No, he was right about the taps. They would be very easy, if they fit.
(I can't see how any would fit. Even inline taps are bulky.)
ed
news:080720071612026008%mi...@hawaii.rr...
> In article <1i0y5cd.dnyzvdt66okjN%noti...@btinternet.com>, Peter
> Hayes <noti...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> > how can you cut a square hole in a device without lessening its
>> > strength? please use logic next time Peter.
>>
>> Are you saying the iPhone case lacks strength? At that price and with
>> Apple's profit margin it should be made of carbon fibre.
>
> Or harder, but it's still not the point. Apple is trying to build the
> best possible, not merely acceptable. You don't put big holes in a
> product you want handled a lot, no matter what the rest of the case is
> made from.
um, actually, a battery compartment can easily make a case stronger (it's
not like you're literally just putting a hole into a predesigned case- you
design the case w/ the battery comparment in mind, and it's (the way many
battery compartment's are designed) pretty inherently cross braced)).
<snip>
ed
> In article <tkbki.1814$eY....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>, ed
> <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on, just cut
>> > the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
>> > required.
>>
>> 1- if that's the case, why do you think you need taps to connect a new
>> battery?
>> 2- there's clearly two globs of solder there.
>
> Is Oxford thinking that the PCB board is taped to the battery but makes
> no contact with the battery?
> I wonder if he thinks the PCB is ot part of it.
that wouldn't make any sense given how he thinks the bettery could be
replaced.
>> > with electronics there is always an easier way, something you have yet
>> > to learn.
>>
>> you clearly just don't know what you're talking about.
> No, he was right about the taps.
um, no. see below.
> They would be very easy, if they fit.
that's the very big if that makes it very clear he doesn't know what he's
talking about (and that he kept talking them clips). and i think he pulled
that out his butt after being called on it and having it point out that the
battery is soldered in- i suspect he thought it used a connector like the
ipod (given how he said it was as easy as an ipod).
Mitch
<colalovesmacs-43C...@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net>,
Oxford <colalo...@mac.com> wrote:
> > Actually it looks as if this 'circuit board' IS part of the battery. The
> > kapton
> > tape is merely for insulation/protections from shorts.
>
> doubtful, but we should know for sure in a few years...
Doubtful?
You know rechargeable batteries need circuitry, don't you?
And you know that the foil contains the reactant chemicals?
So there is circuitry on the outside of the foil packet.
We can see it.
It seems to have the only leads coming off the battery. It must be
electrically connected to the foil packet.
Why wouldn't you think that circuitry is a battery component?
Oxford
> > Is Oxford thinking that the PCB board is taped to the battery but makes
> > no contact with the battery?
> > I wonder if he thinks the PCB is ot part of it.
>
> that wouldn't make any sense given how he thinks the bettery could be
> replaced.
why would I think that? the PCB board is pressed on over a couple
connectors, and the tape is there to provide some insulation and keep
the connection tight. hasn't anyone worked on electronics here?
> >> > with electronics there is always an easier way, something you have yet
> >> > to learn.
> >>
> >> you clearly just don't know what you're talking about.
> > No, he was right about the taps.
>
> um, no. see below.
>
> > They would be very easy, if they fit.
>
> that's the very big if that makes it very clear he doesn't know what he's
> talking about (and that he kept talking them clips). and i think he pulled
> that out his butt after being called on it and having it point out that the
> battery is soldered in- i suspect he thought it used a connector like the
> ipod (given how he said it was as easy as an ipod).
you could either use connectors / clips like i mentioned or just
disconnect the pcb board and slide in a new battery. easy stuff, a 10
minute, $20 for parts job.
Peter Hayes
It wasn't I, t'was Oxford that suggested the battery was taped on.
Peter Hayes
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > > BUT you've never had an Apple iPhone correct?
> > >
> > > You are basing your entire argument on entirely obsolete equipment. All
> > > the cell phones in europe are now completely obsolete. So your comments
> > > aren't valid in the least. The iPhone changes the ENTIRE cell phone
> > > market, you are completely ignoring that fact.
> >
> > Stop believing all that marketing babble. It has nothing to do with the
> > discussion over soldering in the battery.
>
> what marketing babble? i haven't seen any lately... what are you
> referring to? the iphone is exactly and MORE than what anyone has said
> it would be. have you even used one? if not, please don't reply since
> you have know IDEA about the iphone.
This is Usenet, I'll reply if I want to.
Marketing babble has nothing whatsoever to do with the method Apple
emply to connect in the battery. Please stay on topic and refrain from
quoting marketing bullshit in an attempt to sidetrack the discussion,
thanks!
> > > > How does that change the basic premise that the battery could have been
> > > > made user replaceable without any cost in reliability?
> >
> > > how can you cut a square hole in a device without lessening its
> > > strength? please use logic next time Peter.
> >
> > Are you saying the iPhone case lacks strength? At that price and with
> > Apple's profit margin it should be made of carbon fibre.
>
> how do you figure? i said IF apple had cut a huge square in it, like you
> are suggesting, it would be weak.
Not if the cutout was done properly, it could even strengthen the case.
Besides, these batteries can be made in virtually any shape, a long slim
battery running the length of the phone could be engineered in with only
a tiny cutout, similar to the simcard cutout but smaller.
Peter Hayes
I didn't include shipping costs.
My calculation assumed someone handed the phone in at an Apple outlet
and took a loaner.
The loaner should be given out free but against a refundable deposit.
Oxford
> > > To insulate, that's all.
> >
> > Right. So why imagine that it's "taping the battery on"?
>
> It wasn't I, t'was Oxford that suggested the battery was taped on.
when did i EVER say the "battery was taped" on? I said the connector was
taped, which is quite normal when you get into fine electronics.
peter, you know nothing about this topic, so please shut up.
you haven't even touched an iphone, so whatever you say is invalid.
Dr zara
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
>> > > To insulate, that's all.
>> >
>> > Right. So why imagine that it's "taping the battery on"?
>>
>> It wasn't I, t'was Oxford that suggested the battery was taped on.
>
> when did i EVER say the "battery was taped" on? I said the connector was
> taped, which is quite normal when you get into fine electronics.
You said: "no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
just cut
the tape, pull the old battery off, put a new one on, no soldering
required."
Your trolling tequnique is worth following.
Don't use the expression "PCB" board - it's redundant.
Peter Hayes
> noti...@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > > > To insulate, that's all.
> > >
> > > Right. So why imagine that it's "taping the battery on"?
> >
> > It wasn't I, t'was Oxford that suggested the battery was taped on.
>
> when did i EVER say the "battery was taped" on? I said the connector was
> taped,
The connector is taped to the battery, that's the same as the battery
being taped to the connector, ok numbnuts?
> which is quite normal when you get into fine electronics.
Not really.
There will be some more reliable method of securing an electrical
connection, then the whole shebang is taped to prevent shorts.
Oxford
> but if oxford insists on continuing this line of argument, there's an easy
> way for him to prove himself right- he says he's got an iphone (or 4), so if
> it's really that easy to open and replace the battery, he should have no
> problem pulling his apart and disconnecting the battery, right? so let's
> see those pictures! :D
in 4-5 years i will do so, but for now, it a moot point.
-
Oxford
> > I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other.
>
> True, but taping the battery on is pretty amateurish.
good lord you make laugh, tape is a VERY common way to to ensure
connections stay tight in small, modern devices.
you live in the UK right?
NO WONDER!
we are dealing with california and china here, not a 3rd world country.
Oxford
> To insulate, that's all.
>
> If it was employed to secure the PCB to the battery it would have to
> maintain its strength through the lifetime of the battery. This seems to
> be a risky and to me amateurish solution, whereas soldering is reliable.
>
> It looks to me like the terminals could be part of the battery, but for
> all we know the PCB is clipped into the battery.
look inside an iBook peter, you'll see TAPE all over the place! 20-30
pieces on EACH one... soldering is important for certain components, but
tape is lighter, tighter when a simple point to point connection is
involved.
the PCB is NOT soldered onto the battery, it's TAPED, thus you pull the
tape and put on a new battery, simple stuff!
Oxford
> > when did i EVER say the "battery was taped" on? I said the connector was
> > taped,
>
> The connector is taped to the battery, that's the same as the battery
> being taped to the connector, ok numbnuts?
but you said the "battery was taped on" which isn't correct. only the
CONNECTOR is taped that's a HUGE difference.
> > which is quite normal when you get into fine electronics.
>
> Not really.
ah, when you get into fine, small electronics it certainly is...
> There will be some more reliable method of securing an electrical
> connection, then the whole shebang is taped to prevent shorts.
you live in the UK, you guys are are about 20 years behind americans and
asians, so i understand why you haven't seen this more modern method,
but it will reach your shores in 2027, trust me.
Oxford
> > no ed, wrong again, look at the PCB board, it's just taped on,
>
> no, no it's not.
it's certainly not soldered on, it's pushed into place, then taped, very
normal in small electronics.
Mitch
<ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > Or harder, but it's still not the point. Apple is trying to build the
> > best possible, not merely acceptable. You don't put big holes in a
> > product you want handled a lot, no matter what the rest of the case is
> > made from.
>
> um, actually, a battery compartment can easily make a case stronger (it's
> not like you're literally just putting a hole into a predesigned case- you
> design the case w/ the battery comparment in mind, and it's (the way many
> battery compartment's are designed) pretty inherently cross braced)).
Well, true, mostly. I'm not sure it would be true in this case, since
thinness is the biggest issue.
I was thinking more about keeping the cover in place. I have had two
models whose covers kept coming off. It sometimes even made me drop the
things. That was bad for my little candy bar; it would be totally
inexcusable for something as wide and flat as a PDA or iPhone.
Those devices also got dirtier inside than they otherwise would have.
ed
moot except for your claim it's as easy as changing an ipod batter against
all evidence to the contrary.... :D
ed
> In article <30hki.38096$Um6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, ed
> <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>> > Or harder, but it's still not the point. Apple is trying to build the
>> > best possible, not merely acceptable. You don't put big holes in a
>> > product you want handled a lot, no matter what the rest of the case is
>> > made from.
>>
>> um, actually, a battery compartment can easily make a case stronger (it's
>> not like you're literally just putting a hole into a predesigned case-
>> you
>> design the case w/ the battery comparment in mind, and it's (the way many
>> battery compartment's are designed) pretty inherently cross braced)).
>
> Well, true, mostly. I'm not sure it would be true in this case, since
> thinness is the biggest issue.
thinness has very little to do with it, as the battery compartment would
still be a boxed section, which would be stronger.
> I was thinking more about keeping the cover in place. I have had two
> models whose covers kept coming off. It sometimes even made me drop the
> things. That was bad for my little candy bar; it would be totally
> inexcusable for something as wide and flat as a PDA or iPhone.
sounds like a sliding cover over the battery- in a thin design, that would
not make sense- the battery and cover would be integrated; ideally with
hooks on one end, and retractable catches on the other.