PC World & Mac World

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Snit

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Mar 11, 2004, 2:31:37 PM3/11/04
to
This may or may not be representative, but it seems common. I have in front
of me two magazines: PC World (February 2004) and Macword (April 2004).
Just happens to be the ones I have... I have no others handy.

Ok... A quick look at the cover stories:

PC World
* BONUS: PC Maintenance Guide
* The Trouble Free PC: unbeatable tools to help you
protect data, remove junk, stop crashes

Macworld
* Panther Secrets: uncover 51 hidden features and productivity
boosters
* Protect your Mac and watch your back: Mac based home security
camera and tools to fight laptop thieves

Now I did not enter all of the cover stories... but the others, for both,
are not relevant to my point. Both do offer reviews of new software or
hardware, etc.

What I have noticed, though, is how often, very often it seems, PC mags
focus, at least largely, on how to stop your machine from crashing, how to
fix it, how to prevent viruses, etc.

Mac mags focus on productivity tips, new features, new Apple hardware.

Why do you think that is? My guess: they are doing their best to serve
their readers. Mac users focus on getting work done - so they are shown
more productive ways of doing so (the "secrets" referred to on the cover are
just Tips and Tricks... not really secrets. Examples: how to best use
labels, title bar proxies, one-click printing, etc.)

Oh, the PC maintenance guide includes such necessities as:
EVERY DAY
* update virus definitions
* do an incremental backup (in case your machine fails you)
* reboot when programs crash (this is in the EVERY DAY section!)
"failed programs can cause other programs to falter. Restart
your system after every crash to clear it out"

WOW. Anyone have any reputable source that suggests such things for OS X?
Yuck! Moving on...

EVERY WEEK
* perform a full virus scan
* do a complete backup
* Run Windows update "get the latest patches from Microsoft to secure
your system"
* Run spyware and adware removal program

Ok... I get the backups... good idea. Maybe, just maybe the running of the
updater... but can you *imagine* the rest being suggested for the Mac? LOL.
Not hardly!

EVERY MONTH
* Update your programs
* Check for new drivers
* Use a one-click utility-suite chechup program (such as the ones found
here: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,86934,00.asp)

Check for drivers *every month*. That and use some sort of 3rd party
utility to give your computer a checkup.

-----

I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a Windows
XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote than is needed
for OS X.

I welcome anyone to show me *any* reputable list that shows OS X needs
anything comparable to *daily* downloads of virus definitions and should be
rebooted on any application crash. Or, for that matter, suggests a weekly
spyware check or an update to get newest patches to protect against security
problems.

leo

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Mar 11, 2004, 2:50:24 PM3/11/04
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"Snit" <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote in message
news:BC760CA9.430E5%sn...@nospam-cableone.net...

Then please suggest to MacWorld how to minimize the occurrence of
"application unexpectly quit" issue on my powerbook.


Alan Baker

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Mar 11, 2004, 2:51:56 PM3/11/04
to
In article <4q34c.15589$%06....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"leo" <som...@somewhere.net> wrote:

> > I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a
> Windows
> > XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote than is needed
> > for OS X.
> >
> > I welcome anyone to show me *any* reputable list that shows OS X needs
> > anything comparable to *daily* downloads of virus definitions and should
> be
> > rebooted on any application crash. Or, for that matter, suggests a weekly
> > spyware check or an update to get newest patches to protect against
> security
> > problems.
>
> Then please suggest to MacWorld how to minimize the occurrence of
> "application unexpectly quit" issue on my powerbook.

What's the app?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Snit

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Mar 11, 2004, 2:59:00 PM3/11/04
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"leo" <som...@somewhere.net> wrote in
4q34c.15589$%06....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net on 3/11/04 12:50 PM:

Talk to John, he can point you in the right direction.

Have you ever seen any serious list suggest you should reboot after any
application crash on OS X? I am not saying that crashes to apps do not
happen, and you may have something going on to make them more common, but
the idea of having to reboot when an app does crash would be considered
absurd on today's Mac for most crashes.

leo

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Mar 11, 2004, 3:03:44 PM3/11/04
to
"Snit" <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote in message
news:BC761314.430F5%sn...@nospam-cableone.net...

yes, I learned that from experience. Once there's an app crashes, something
weired would follow, so I reboot.


John

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Mar 11, 2004, 3:20:31 PM3/11/04
to

Snit

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Mar 11, 2004, 3:32:46 PM3/11/04
to
"John" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in 1051igf...@news.supernews.com on
3/11/04 1:20 PM:

I cannot find any recommendations there for the things I list for XP.
Thanks for supporting the idea that OS X is more trouble free and requires
less maintenance.

George Graves

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Mar 11, 2004, 5:11:20 PM3/11/04
to
In article <BC760CA9.430E5%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:

> This may or may not be representative, but it seems common. I have in front
> of me two magazines: PC World (February 2004) and Macword (April 2004).
> Just happens to be the ones I have... I have no others handy.
>
> Ok... A quick look at the cover stories:
>
> PC World
> * BONUS: PC Maintenance Guide
> * The Trouble Free PC: unbeatable tools to help you
> protect data, remove junk, stop crashes
>
> Macworld
> * Panther Secrets: uncover 51 hidden features and productivity
> boosters
> * Protect your Mac and watch your back: Mac based home security
> camera and tools to fight laptop thieves
>
> Now I did not enter all of the cover stories... but the others, for both,
> are not relevant to my point. Both do offer reviews of new software or
> hardware, etc.
>
> What I have noticed, though, is how often, very often it seems, PC mags
> focus, at least largely, on how to stop your machine from crashing, how to
> fix it, how to prevent viruses, etc.
>
> Mac mags focus on productivity tips, new features, new Apple hardware.

I was about to post something along these lines myself. Well, you know
what they say about great minds.....

I recently had an opportunity to get a year's subscription to MacAddict
for free (sans the CD, of course) and after not having looked at a Mac
magazine since OS9 days, I was amazed at the wealth of OSX tips and
techniques contained in just one issue. Nothing about troubleshooting,
just hidden features, articles about how to do things (like record
streaming radio using iTunes) etc. Yet, every PC mag I see is nothing
but troubleshooting, virus protection, preventing crashes, etc - and
that's just on the cover!

In the light of such overwhelming evidence, I simply do not see how some
of the Windows fanatics here in this NG can live in the constant state
of denial that they inhabit with regard to computer reliability. It
should be apparent to even the most casual observer, given the number of
venues devoted SOLELY to Windows problem issues, that the Windows
environment is a house of cards. Daily TV shows, weekly radio call-ins,
magazines filled with troubleshooting articles, constant security
alerts, endless virus scares, hundreds of "PC Fix it" web sites, the
list goes on and on. Is there anybody who TRULY believes the stuff they
shovel in this NG about XP being flawless? And they call Mac users
fanatics, "living in the RFD" and "delusional."

But the Windows fanatics don't ever see any of this. To them it's always
just incompetent editors and writers (funny that all the incompetent
ones seem to gravitate to the Windows publications. I'm sure that's
indicitive of something; not sure what), delusional "Maccies" (these
magazines don't really contain all of this troubleshooting and
maintenance falderall, we just imagine that they do), etc. In other
words, none of this is important nor do any of the problems covered ever
affect anybody. Mac problems, OTOH, now they're a different story. They
make the platform unusable :->

--
George Graves
------------------
My Three Favorite Words WRT Women, Wine, food, cars and motorcycles:
"Made in Italy"

George Graves

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Mar 11, 2004, 5:38:45 PM3/11/04
to
In article <1051igf...@news.supernews.com>,
"John" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:

You are so delusional and stupid that you defy all understanding.

Jim Lee Jr.

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Mar 11, 2004, 5:53:57 PM3/11/04
to

> info.apple.com
> www.macfixit.com

Ms. macfixit.com fetish has posted again, I see.
Now she has added info.apple.com to her list of goodies.

Snit

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Mar 11, 2004, 7:15:03 PM3/11/04
to
"George Graves" <gmgra...@pacbell.net> wrote in
gmgravesnos-A63C...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net on 3/11/04 3:11 PM:

> In article <BC760CA9.430E5%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
> Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> This may or may not be representative, but it seems common. I have in front
>> of me two magazines: PC World (February 2004) and Macword (April 2004).
>> Just happens to be the ones I have... I have no others handy.
>>
>> Ok... A quick look at the cover stories:
>>
>> PC World
>> * BONUS: PC Maintenance Guide
>> * The Trouble Free PC: unbeatable tools to help you
>> protect data, remove junk, stop crashes
>>
>> Macworld
>> * Panther Secrets: uncover 51 hidden features and productivity
>> boosters
>> * Protect your Mac and watch your back: Mac based home security
>> camera and tools to fight laptop thieves
>>
>> Now I did not enter all of the cover stories... but the others, for both,
>> are not relevant to my point. Both do offer reviews of new software or
>> hardware, etc.
>>
>> What I have noticed, though, is how often, very often it seems, PC mags
>> focus, at least largely, on how to stop your machine from crashing, how to
>> fix it, how to prevent viruses, etc.
>>
>> Mac mags focus on productivity tips, new features, new Apple hardware.
>
> I was about to post something along these lines myself. Well, you know
> what they say about great minds.....

Great minds think alike... and so do ours. Well, about computers, anyway.


>
> I recently had an opportunity to get a year's subscription to MacAddict
> for free (sans the CD, of course) and after not having looked at a Mac
> magazine since OS9 days, I was amazed at the wealth of OSX tips and
> techniques contained in just one issue. Nothing about troubleshooting,
> just hidden features, articles about how to do things (like record
> streaming radio using iTunes) etc. Yet, every PC mag I see is nothing
> but troubleshooting, virus protection, preventing crashes, etc - and
> that's just on the cover!

If you read them they do have the occasional review - often telling you how
bad the software is.


>
> In the light of such overwhelming evidence, I simply do not see how some
> of the Windows fanatics here in this NG can live in the constant state
> of denial that they inhabit with regard to computer reliability. It
> should be apparent to even the most casual observer, given the number of
> venues devoted SOLELY to Windows problem issues, that the Windows
> environment is a house of cards. Daily TV shows, weekly radio call-ins,
> magazines filled with troubleshooting articles, constant security
> alerts, endless virus scares, hundreds of "PC Fix it" web sites, the
> list goes on and on. Is there anybody who TRULY believes the stuff they
> shovel in this NG about XP being flawless? And they call Mac users
> fanatics, "living in the RFD" and "delusional."

Funny thing is most Mac users are pretty open about the down sides of the
Mac. Most. :) Then again, when you can honestly say you made the right
choice, there is less problem with being honest.

To be fair, though, most of these mags are made on Macs. :)

C Lund

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Mar 12, 2004, 4:26:16 AM3/12/04
to

Ron Parsons

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Mar 12, 2004, 7:34:57 AM3/12/04
to
In article <gmgravesnos-A63C...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
George Graves <gmgra...@pacbell.net> wrote:

>I recently had an opportunity to get a year's subscription to MacAddict
>for free (sans the CD, of course) and after not having looked at a Mac
>magazine since OS9 days, I was amazed at the wealth of OSX tips and
>techniques contained in just one issue. Nothing about troubleshooting,
>just hidden features, articles about how to do things (like record
>streaming radio using iTunes) etc. Yet, every PC mag I see is nothing
>but troubleshooting, virus protection, preventing crashes, etc - and
>that's just on the cover!

If you walk down the isles of a CompUSA or MicroCenter type computer
store, you will find the same preponderance troubleshooting, virus
protection, crash prevention, etc. software. That seems to pretty much
account of a great portion of those thousands of more available programs
for Windows.

--
Ron

George Graves

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Mar 12, 2004, 8:33:15 PM3/12/04
to
In article <jrp59-730606....@news.verizon.net>,
Ron Parsons <jr...@gte.net> wrote:

Yeah, Windows is obviously such a house of cards, that they need those
things. Why is it that Windroids can't see this and continue to deny
that the Mac is clearly superior in terms of reliability.

digitaleon

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Mar 13, 2004, 1:15:22 AM3/13/04
to
To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,

> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,

> What I have noticed, though, is how often, very often it seems, PC
> mags focus, at least largely, on how to stop your machine from
> crashing, how to fix it, how to prevent viruses, etc.
>
> Mac mags focus on productivity tips, new features, new Apple hardware.

I've read a number of different Windows PC publications. What you
describe certainly does not appear in every edition. Rather, the
publications generally have a 'super troubleshooting issue' twice a
year, with 'smaller, less flashy' articles appearing in every other
edition relating to various forms of troubleshooting.

This is about double the rate that the same appears in the various Mac
publications. So to some extent, you're right about the amount of
troubleshooting articles that appear in Windows PC publications vs. Mac
publications. To some extent only, however.

> Why do you think that is? My guess: they are doing their best to
> serve their readers.

A good publication will always do this...

> Mac users focus on getting work done - so they are shown more
> productive ways of doing so (the "secrets" referred to on the cover
> are just Tips and Tricks... not really secrets. Examples: how to best
> use labels, title bar proxies, one-click printing, etc.)

Windows PC users are also interested in getting work done. Part of that
involves system maintenance and troubleshooting. Unfortunately, in my
experience, that is a larger proportion of 'getting work done' on a
Windows PC than on a Mac, _except_ where Windows and the included
applications have been sufficiently customised and tested so as to be
as trouble free as possible.

> Oh, the PC maintenance guide includes such necessities as:

> EVERY DAY

> * update virus definitions

I agree this is somewhat excessive. But it's especially necessary with
Novarg, NetSky, Cone, Koce and friends on the loose. Virus e-mails over
the past month or so have exploded to unprecedented levels due to
Windows PCs that have not been secured.

> * do an incremental backup (in case your machine fails you)

Running daily incremental backups of your important files is actually a
very good idea.

Courtesy of StuffIt Deluxe and a little AppleScripting, I have a
customised backup solution for me for certain files I update regularly
that I want to ensure that are not lost. Nothing easier than to run it
each night. It doesn't diff the files, so it's actually more of a full
backup than an incremental one, but still...

> * reboot when programs crash (this is in the EVERY DAY section!)
> "failed programs can cause other programs to falter. Restart
> your system after every crash to clear it out"

Not necessary on systems with proper process and memory separation, such
as Mac OS X, the various BSDs, Windows NT 5.x (ala Windows 2000 and
Windows XP), and systems based on the Linux 2.x series kernel.

> EVERY WEEK

> * perform a full virus scan

I do this, only to ensure that I'm not a carrier for any virii. The fact
that a particular virus can't infect my computer doesn't mean it can't
infect others, and it would be somewhat irresponsible for me to simply
say "they use a different system, not my problem" when there exists the
Internet.

> * do a complete backup

I do this fortnightly. Weekly is too much of an irritation.

> * Run Windows update "get the latest patches from Microsoft to secure
> your system"

I do this (well, Software Update runs automatically).

> * Run spyware and adware removal program

I don't do this. Are there even any such programs for the Mac? I confess
to not having looked for any...

> EVERY MONTH

> * Update your programs

I can do this weekly courtesy of VersionTracker Pro; takes all the
effort and much of the time out of it.

> * Check for new drivers

VersionTracker Pro helps in this regard, too.

> * Use a one-click utility-suite checkup program (such as the ones
> found here: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,86934,00.asp)

Periodically checking and correcting disk errors is a good idea. The
extent to which some of these programs go in the pursuit of 'system
perfection' is ridiculous though...

> I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a
> Windows XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote than
> is needed for OS X.

None of it is NEEDED. Windows XP won't crash and burn if you do none of
these things. It really depends on how critical the computer is to you,
how much and how often it's used, what it's used for, and how much
maintenance you're prepared to put up with.

The regime I've established isn't necessary for a Mac OS X machine, as
you already pointed out. I doubt I would have any severe issues with my
Mac if I didn't, but because I do, I've never been in the situation to
find out for sure.

digitaleon.

Snit

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Mar 13, 2004, 1:45:54 AM3/13/04
to
"digitaleon" <thi...@fake.address> wrote in
_Fx4c.10551944$Of.17...@news.easynews.com on 3/12/04 11:15 PM:

> To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,
>
>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>
>> What I have noticed, though, is how often, very often it seems, PC
>> mags focus, at least largely, on how to stop your machine from
>> crashing, how to fix it, how to prevent viruses, etc.
>>
>> Mac mags focus on productivity tips, new features, new Apple hardware.
>
> I've read a number of different Windows PC publications. What you
> describe certainly does not appear in every edition. Rather, the
> publications generally have a 'super troubleshooting issue' twice a
> year, with 'smaller, less flashy' articles appearing in every other
> edition relating to various forms of troubleshooting.

That is not what I generally see, but I admit I do not pay much attention to
the "general public" computer mags... looking at their web site they do not
have many covers, but there is some support for what you say: one cover
seems focused on "76 Ways To Make Windows Do Everything" (sounds like a tips
and tricks type thing), and the other is "Best New Stuff". It would be
interesting to look at, say, the same 6-12 months of both mags...

Looked at the MacWorld site and their issue is focused on "Hot New Stuff".
Hmmmm, which is better, Best New Stuff or Hot New Stuff. I suppose the PC
mag got the best stuff and the Macs get mere Hot Stuff. :)


>
> This is about double the rate that the same appears in the various Mac
> publications. So to some extent, you're right about the amount of
> troubleshooting articles that appear in Windows PC publications vs. Mac
> publications. To some extent only, however.

Fair enough...


>
>> Why do you think that is? My guess: they are doing their best to
>> serve their readers.
>
> A good publication will always do this...

You are assuming they are both good. :)


>
>> Mac users focus on getting work done - so they are shown more
>> productive ways of doing so (the "secrets" referred to on the cover
>> are just Tips and Tricks... not really secrets. Examples: how to best
>> use labels, title bar proxies, one-click printing, etc.)
>
> Windows PC users are also interested in getting work done. Part of that
> involves system maintenance and troubleshooting. Unfortunately, in my
> experience, that is a larger proportion of 'getting work done' on a
> Windows PC than on a Mac, _except_ where Windows and the included
> applications have been sufficiently customised and tested so as to be
> as trouble free as possible.

Even then you need to do more maintenance and protection... sadly. I do not
envy the Windows users who have to do so much of this...


>
>> Oh, the PC maintenance guide includes such necessities as:
>
>> EVERY DAY
>
>> * update virus definitions
>
> I agree this is somewhat excessive. But it's especially necessary with
> Novarg, NetSky, Cone, Koce and friends on the loose. Virus e-mails over
> the past month or so have exploded to unprecedented levels due to
> Windows PCs that have not been secured.

Yup. It is getting outragious.


>
>> * do an incremental backup (in case your machine fails you)
>
> Running daily incremental backups of your important files is actually a
> very good idea.

Sure...


>
> Courtesy of StuffIt Deluxe and a little AppleScripting, I have a
> customised backup solution for me for certain files I update regularly
> that I want to ensure that are not lost. Nothing easier than to run it
> each night. It doesn't diff the files, so it's actually more of a full
> backup than an incremental one, but still...

I use Carbon Copy Cloner's scheduling... works great.


>
>> * reboot when programs crash (this is in the EVERY DAY section!)
>> "failed programs can cause other programs to falter. Restart
>> your system after every crash to clear it out"
>
> Not necessary on systems with proper process and memory separation, such
> as Mac OS X, the various BSDs, Windows NT 5.x (ala Windows 2000 and
> Windows XP), and systems based on the Linux 2.x series kernel.

I have to say, I was surprised to see this for XP. Why do you think they
have it there? An error?


>
>> EVERY WEEK
>
>> * perform a full virus scan
>
> I do this, only to ensure that I'm not a carrier for any virii. The fact
> that a particular virus can't infect my computer doesn't mean it can't
> infect others, and it would be somewhat irresponsible for me to simply
> say "they use a different system, not my problem" when there exists the
> Internet.

Yes and no. The chance of sending a virus is less on a Mac, and, I refuse
to pay to protect people who chose to get a system they knew has serious
virus problems. If it were something new, maybe I would be more giving.


>
>> * do a complete backup
>
> I do this fortnightly. Weekly is too much of an irritation.

I do it.... um... whenever I am going to do something big like upgrade to
10.3


>
>> * Run Windows update "get the latest patches from Microsoft to secure
>> your system"
>
> I do this (well, Software Update runs automatically).
>
>> * Run spyware and adware removal program
>
> I don't do this. Are there even any such programs for the Mac? I confess
> to not having looked for any...

There is no spyware... so no need. Yet.


>
>> EVERY MONTH
>
>> * Update your programs
>
> I can do this weekly courtesy of VersionTracker Pro; takes all the
> effort and much of the time out of it.

Does that work well... I have considered getting it...


>
>> * Check for new drivers
>
> VersionTracker Pro helps in this regard, too.

How often do you need them?


>
>> * Use a one-click utility-suite checkup program (such as the ones
>> found here: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,86934,00.asp)
>
> Periodically checking and correcting disk errors is a good idea. The
> extent to which some of these programs go in the pursuit of 'system
> perfection' is ridiculous though...

Yup.


>
>> I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a
>> Windows XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote than
>> is needed for OS X.
>
> None of it is NEEDED. Windows XP won't crash and burn if you do none of
> these things. It really depends on how critical the computer is to you,
> how much and how often it's used, what it's used for, and how much
> maintenance you're prepared to put up with.
>
> The regime I've established isn't necessary for a Mac OS X machine, as
> you already pointed out. I doubt I would have any severe issues with my
> Mac if I didn't, but because I do, I've never been in the situation to
> find out for sure.

You seem quite fair minded about all this. Rare in csma. Thanks...

digitaleon

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 9:01:34 AM3/13/04
to
To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,

>>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,

>>> What I have noticed, though, is how often, very often it seems, PC
>>> mags focus, at least largely, on how to stop your machine from
>>> crashing, how to fix it, how to prevent viruses, etc.
>>>
>>> Mac mags focus on productivity tips, new features, new Apple
>>> hardware.
>>
>> I've read a number of different Windows PC publications. What you
>> describe certainly does not appear in every edition. Rather, the
>> publications generally have a 'super troubleshooting issue' twice a
>> year, with 'smaller, less flashy' articles appearing in every other
>> edition relating to various forms of troubleshooting.
>
> That is not what I generally see, but I admit I do not pay much
> attention to the "general public" computer mags... looking at their
> web site they do not have many covers, but there is some support for
> what you say: one cover seems focused on "76 Ways To Make Windows Do
> Everything" (sounds like a tips and tricks type thing), and the other
> is "Best New Stuff". It would be interesting to look at, say, the
> same 6-12 months of both mags...

Exactly. The focus generally orbits the following topics on a bi-annual
basis for the "major" articles: hardware comparisons, software reviews,
operating system useage hints, operating system troubleshooting, games,
and major IT issues. These are generally done en massè to make a good
splash (ala 76 Ways...). It gets a bit boring after awhile; ironically,
publications for the Macintosh and Linux platforms have more
flexibility and more scope to cover a wide range of topics, given the
(arguably) close-knit communities.

They have plenty of interesting content in the other pages of the
Windows PC publications that are 'frighteningly fresh', so it's still
worthwhile reading them, although I usually skip the "major" article
for the month. Hence why I pick up an edition of APC (Australian
Personal Computer) every few months or so.

> Looked at the MacWorld site and their issue is focused on "Hot New
> Stuff". Hmmmm, which is better, Best New Stuff or Hot New Stuff. I
> suppose the PC mag got the best stuff and the Macs get mere Hot Stuff.
> :)

I think Donna Summer would go for the Mac then ;-)

>>> Why do you think that is? My guess: they are doing their best to
>>> serve their readers.
>>
>> A good publication will always do this...
>
> You are assuming they are both good. :)

That's true =) I admit I haven't read Macworld for a bit. Is it still
going strong?

>>> Mac users focus on getting work done - so they are shown more
>>> productive ways of doing so (the "secrets" referred to on the cover
>>> are just Tips and Tricks... not really secrets. Examples: how to
>>> best use labels, title bar proxies, one-click printing, etc.)
>>
>> Windows PC users are also interested in getting work done. Part of
>> that involves system maintenance and troubleshooting. Unfortunately,
>> in my experience, that is a larger proportion of 'getting work done'
>> on a Windows PC than on a Mac, _except_ where Windows and the
>> included applications have been sufficiently customised and tested so
>> as to be as trouble free as possible.
>
> Even then you need to do more maintenance and protection... sadly. I
> do not envy the Windows users who have to do so much of this...

I've certainly found that to be the case with individual installs of
Windows.

In the case of the customised, tested build of Windows, its' been
essentially trouble-free (I get to support it by day...). The same
unfortunately cannot be said in the case of applications running on top
of it (namely, Ybghf Abgrf).

>>> Oh, the PC maintenance guide includes such necessities as:

>>> EVERY DAY

>>> * update virus definitions
>>
>> I agree this is somewhat excessive. But it's especially necessary
>> with Novarg, NetSky, Cone, Koce and friends on the loose. Virus
>> e-mails over the past month or so have exploded to unprecedented
>> levels due to Windows PCs that have not been secured.
>

> Yup. It is getting outrageous.

Absolutely agree. Over the past month, the number of e-mails sent with
virus attachments has jumped by something like 500%. Organisations that
were previously trapping only a few dozen to a few hundred per day are
now trapping thousands per day. Chiefly thanks to the virus families I
mentioned above.

Putting that together with spam and message bounces, it's a wonder
people don't just give up on e-mail...

>> Courtesy of StuffIt Deluxe and a little AppleScripting, I have a
>> customised backup solution for me for certain files I update
>> regularly that I want to ensure that are not lost. Nothing easier
>> than to run it each night. It doesn't diff the files, so it's
>> actually more of a full backup than an incremental one, but still...
>
> I use Carbon Copy Cloner's scheduling... works great.

Groovy. I'll remember that name in case I'm searching for another tool
at some point in the future.

>>> * reboot when programs crash (this is in the EVERY DAY section!)
>>> "failed programs can cause other programs to falter. Restart
>>> your system after every crash to clear it out"
>>
>> Not necessary on systems with proper process and memory separation,
>> such as Mac OS X, the various BSDs, Windows NT 5.x (ala Windows 2000
>> and Windows XP), and systems based on the Linux 2.x series kernel.
>
> I have to say, I was surprised to see this for XP. Why do you think
> they have it there? An error?

Possibly an error, but my guess would be that after a crash there's no
guarantee that the application that crashed would run again until the
user environment has been cleared, either by log out or restart. And
since re-launching the exact application that just crashed is the first
thing people try to do...

>>> EVERY WEEK

>>> * perform a full virus scan
>>
>> I do this, only to ensure that I'm not a carrier for any virii. The
>> fact that a particular virus can't infect my computer doesn't mean it
>> can't infect others, and it would be somewhat irresponsible for me to
>> simply say "they use a different system, not my problem" when there
>> exists the Internet.
>
> Yes and no. The chance of sending a virus is less on a Mac, and, I
> refuse to pay to protect people who chose to get a system they knew
> has serious virus problems. If it were something new, maybe I would
> be more giving.

That's a fair position. I feel that way at times, but having virus
protection, even though I'm very unlikely to ever have a problem, lets
me stand on the moral high ground when dealing with those who just
don't care - generally people with Windows computers at home who think
they're smarter than the virii and don't need protection because
they're careful. It doesn't work with sex, and I don't think it'll ever
work with virii ;-)

Fortunately, the $org I support takes virus prevention very seriously
and has virus protection on everything they can. The best preventative
being that _all_ e-mails in & out are scanned for virii and for
anything executable.

>>> * do a complete backup
>>
>> I do this fortnightly. Weekly is too much of an irritation.
>
> I do it.... um... whenever I am going to do something big like upgrade
> to 10.3

That's how I used to do it, too. I decided I'd get into 'good habits'
and do it on a regular basis. Realistically, they're not really
complete backups, just of documents and packages. Actual full backups
of everything on my Mac I only really do a few times a year, due to the
amount of time they take.

>>> * Run spyware and adware removal program
>>
>> I don't do this. Are there even any such programs for the Mac? I
>> confess to not having looked for any...
>
> There is no spyware... so no need. Yet.

Long may it last! Sadly, I fear this year will be the year the Macintosh
is compromised by this particular breed of scum.

>>> EVERY MONTH
>>
>>> * Update your programs
>>
>> I can do this weekly courtesy of VersionTracker Pro; takes all the
>> effort and much of the time out of it.
>
> Does that work well... I have considered getting it...

It works very well in all respects except one. It lets you view a list
of updated software against what's installed on your computer, the
daily updates, and allows you to search for applications and see the
results all from within the software. Any of the packages in any of
these views can be downloaded (it has a Safari-style download manager)
or some further information looked at without launching the web
browser.

Its' been very helpful especially in regards to ensuring I have the
latest build and minor releases of the software I use.

The one respect where it doesn't work well is that it probably won't
track all of your installed software. I suspect the applications it
won't track are those that aren't submitted to VersionTracker.

>>> * Check for new drivers
>>
>> VersionTracker Pro helps in this regard, too.
>
> How often do you need them?

I confess, so far I have only needed them once (I really don't have much
by the way of hardware needing it). I mentioned VT Pro because it takes
away the need to poke around the vendors' site, provided of course
updates get submitted to VT...

>>> I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a
>>> Windows XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote
>>> than is needed for OS X.
>>
>> None of it is NEEDED. Windows XP won't crash and burn if you do none
>> of these things. It really depends on how critical the computer is to
>> you, how much and how often it's used, what it's used for, and how
>> much maintenance you're prepared to put up with.
>>
>> The regime I've established isn't necessary for a Mac OS X machine,
>> as you already pointed out. I doubt I would have any severe issues
>> with my Mac if I didn't, but because I do, I've never been in the
>> situation to find out for sure.
>
> You seem quite fair minded about all this. Rare in csma. Thanks...

Why thankyou :-) That is a rare compliment in an advocacy group. I'd
like to extend the compliment to you as well, because it's always a
pleasure to discuss a topic like this intelligently and interestingly.

digitaleon.

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 11:24:04 AM3/13/04
to
"digitaleon" <thi...@fake.address> wrote in
2vE4c.10488176$Id.17...@news.easynews.com on 3/13/04 7:01 AM:

> To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,
>
>>>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>

<Heavy snippage of sections where all I would say is "me too" or simply
thanks you for info>

>>>> Why do you think that is? My guess: they are doing their best to
>>>> serve their readers.
>>>
>>> A good publication will always do this...
>>
>> You are assuming they are both good. :)
>
> That's true =) I admit I haven't read Macworld for a bit. Is it still
> going strong?

Seems to be. I have been getting it for a year based on a free offer. Some
of the reviews can be pretty good - most of the rest I find online via
frequent skimming of http://macsurfer.com

>>>> Mac users focus on getting work done - so they are shown more
>>>> productive ways of doing so (the "secrets" referred to on the cover
>>>> are just Tips and Tricks... not really secrets. Examples: how to
>>>> best use labels, title bar proxies, one-click printing, etc.)
>>>
>>> Windows PC users are also interested in getting work done. Part of
>>> that involves system maintenance and troubleshooting. Unfortunately,
>>> in my experience, that is a larger proportion of 'getting work done'
>>> on a Windows PC than on a Mac, _except_ where Windows and the
>>> included applications have been sufficiently customised and tested so
>>> as to be as trouble free as possible.
>>
>> Even then you need to do more maintenance and protection... sadly. I
>> do not envy the Windows users who have to do so much of this...
>
> I've certainly found that to be the case with individual installs of
> Windows.
>
> In the case of the customised, tested build of Windows, its' been
> essentially trouble-free (I get to support it by day...). The same
> unfortunately cannot be said in the case of applications running on top
> of it (namely, Ybghf Abgrf).

The college where I work uses "Ybghf Abgrf", and nobody seems to like it. I
am only a part time instructor, so I do not get stuck with it. I do get
stuck with no office and no benefits. If I am offered a full time job, is
it worth the trade off? :)


>
>>>> Oh, the PC maintenance guide includes such necessities as:
>
>>>> EVERY DAY
>
>>>> * update virus definitions
>>>
>>> I agree this is somewhat excessive. But it's especially necessary
>>> with Novarg, NetSky, Cone, Koce and friends on the loose. Virus
>>> e-mails over the past month or so have exploded to unprecedented
>>> levels due to Windows PCs that have not been secured.
>>
>> Yup. It is getting outrageous.
>
> Absolutely agree. Over the past month, the number of e-mails sent with
> virus attachments has jumped by something like 500%. Organisations that
> were previously trapping only a few dozen to a few hundred per day are
> now trapping thousands per day. Chiefly thanks to the virus families I
> mentioned above.
>
> Putting that together with spam and message bounces, it's a wonder
> people don't just give up on e-mail...

The sad thing is 99% of this garbage seems to be spread not just from
Windows, but specifically from Outlook or Outlook Express. Maybe Apple can
do the world a favor and port Mail to XP. :)


>
>>> Courtesy of StuffIt Deluxe and a little AppleScripting, I have a
>>> customised backup solution for me for certain files I update
>>> regularly that I want to ensure that are not lost. Nothing easier
>>> than to run it each night. It doesn't diff the files, so it's
>>> actually more of a full backup than an incremental one, but still...
>>
>> I use Carbon Copy Cloner's scheduling... works great.
>
> Groovy. I'll remember that name in case I'm searching for another tool
> at some point in the future.

It is great for making bootable backups also. Highly recommended.

>> Yes and no. The chance of sending a virus is less on a Mac, and, I
>> refuse to pay to protect people who chose to get a system they knew
>> has serious virus problems. If it were something new, maybe I would
>> be more giving.
>
> That's a fair position. I feel that way at times, but having virus
> protection, even though I'm very unlikely to ever have a problem, lets
> me stand on the moral high ground when dealing with those who just
> don't care - generally people with Windows computers at home who think
> they're smarter than the virii and don't need protection because
> they're careful. It doesn't work with sex, and I don't think it'll ever
> work with virii ;-)

Good analogy. :) To be fair, I almost never send anything with an
attachment, other than the occasional jpg, so I figure my chances of
forwarding a virus is pretty slim.


>
> Fortunately, the $org I support takes virus prevention very seriously
> and has virus protection on everything they can. The best preventative
> being that _all_ e-mails in & out are scanned for virii and for
> anything executable.

The college I work at *claims* to do the same, but they still have been hit
a few times.


>
>>>> * do a complete backup
>>>
>>> I do this fortnightly. Weekly is too much of an irritation.
>>
>> I do it.... um... whenever I am going to do something big like upgrade
>> to 10.3
>
> That's how I used to do it, too. I decided I'd get into 'good habits'
> and do it on a regular basis. Realistically, they're not really
> complete backups, just of documents and packages. Actual full backups
> of everything on my Mac I only really do a few times a year, due to the
> amount of time they take.

I do an incremental backup of my User and Application folders once a week.
Of course, since I do this to a second internal hard drive, if my computer
gets stolen, lost in a fire, or something similar that will do me absolutely
no good.


>
>>>> * Run spyware and adware removal program
>>>
>>> I don't do this. Are there even any such programs for the Mac? I
>>> confess to not having looked for any...
>>
>> There is no spyware... so no need. Yet.
>
> Long may it last! Sadly, I fear this year will be the year the Macintosh
> is compromised by this particular breed of scum.

It will happen. I can not say when, but I am surprised it is not already
happening.


>>>> I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a
>>>> Windows XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote
>>>> than is needed for OS X.
>>>
>>> None of it is NEEDED. Windows XP won't crash and burn if you do none
>>> of these things. It really depends on how critical the computer is to
>>> you, how much and how often it's used, what it's used for, and how
>>> much maintenance you're prepared to put up with.
>>>
>>> The regime I've established isn't necessary for a Mac OS X machine,
>>> as you already pointed out. I doubt I would have any severe issues
>>> with my Mac if I didn't, but because I do, I've never been in the
>>> situation to find out for sure.
>>
>> You seem quite fair minded about all this. Rare in csma. Thanks...
>
> Why thankyou :-) That is a rare compliment in an advocacy group. I'd
> like to extend the compliment to you as well, because it's always a
> pleasure to discuss a topic like this intelligently and interestingly.

Thanks. For the opposing view, read just a few posts from Steve or
Elizabot. They slam me in almost every post. It has gotten so bad that I
have asked them to at least place "Flame:" in the subject lines so that
others can ignore them - there have been quite a few complaints.

Steve Carroll

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 12:59:09 PM3/13/04
to
In article <BC7883B4.4346D%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:

Yes, and many of those complaints recognize that you incite people...
then you complain they are 'attacking' you. You have a pretty serious
case of victim mentality going on. I noticed you didn't mention anything
here about your sexual harrassment of Elizabot. Or your many out of
context attacks on others. Why not point to those? Do you think people
create threads entitled anatomy of a snit-zel for no good reason? Google
is chock full of your strange activity, if this guy wants to find out
the truth all he has to do is read enough of your posts... in this NG
and the anxiety NG... he'll catch on quickly enough. He might be
interested in ShutterBugz assessment of you:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:comp.sys.mac.advocacy+insubject:a
natomy+insubject:of+insubject:a+insubject:snit-zel&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=
UTF-8&selm=40449c98_1%40news.iprimus.com.au&rnum=1


For some reason (I believe I know why and I mention it below) you
somehow think you have hidden your disingenuous activity with your 'I'm
a good guy' routine. If you think you are going to be able to tell the
group that you tried to get us to use the 'Flame' idea and we simply
rejected it... all so you can make yourself look good... all I can say
is it's not going to work.. You don't look good, won't look good and
can't look good because you never stop doing what you did right here...
flat out lying. You are 'attacked'(in your mind) because of what you
continually do... habitually lie... and google shows no less than over
a dozen people in here have made mention of it.

I think it's pretty obvious what causes your odd behavior. I read your
posts in the anxiety NG. You stated that you needed medication to be
able to function with your mental problems. I read your posts where you
have had to leave jobs, couldn't attend your own mother's birthday party
and have been housebound... as well as the posts about having phobias to
things like having your blood pressure taken and what not. I read the
posts about all the different medications, as well... the side effects
are well known. I'm sorry but this isn't normal and has GOT to be the
cause of some SERIOUS frustration for you... frustration that it seems
you have seen fit to take out on certain posters in this NG. I'm sorry
for your mental health problems but it's pretty obvious you should have
your dosage re-adjusted or check into a new medication or something
because you are definitely out of whack in terms of reality. I don't
know if it's the drugs at fault or if they are even able to help you at
all... but you NEED to seek help one way or another.

Steve

Steve Mackay

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 1:00:20 PM3/13/04
to
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:24:04 -0700, Snit wrote:

> "digitaleon" <thi...@fake.address> wrote in
> 2vE4c.10488176$Id.17...@news.easynews.com on 3/13/04 7:01 AM:
>
>> To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,
>>
>>>>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>>>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
>>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>>

<snip>


>>>>> I am just flabbergasted at the amount of suggested maintenance for a
>>>>> Windows XP machine. More than was needed for OS 9, and *far* mote
>>>>> than is needed for OS X.
>>>>
>>>> None of it is NEEDED. Windows XP won't crash and burn if you do none
>>>> of these things. It really depends on how critical the computer is to
>>>> you, how much and how often it's used, what it's used for, and how
>>>> much maintenance you're prepared to put up with.
>>>>
>>>> The regime I've established isn't necessary for a Mac OS X machine,
>>>> as you already pointed out. I doubt I would have any severe issues
>>>> with my Mac if I didn't, but because I do, I've never been in the
>>>> situation to find out for sure.
>>>
>>> You seem quite fair minded about all this. Rare in csma. Thanks...
>>
>> Why thankyou :-) That is a rare compliment in an advocacy group. I'd
>> like to extend the compliment to you as well, because it's always a
>> pleasure to discuss a topic like this intelligently and interestingly.
>
> Thanks. For the opposing view, read just a few posts from Steve or
> Elizabot. They slam me in almost every post. It has gotten so bad that I
> have asked them to at least place "Flame:" in the subject lines so that
> others can ignore them - there have been quite a few complaints.

People slam you, because you're a delusional putz. I'm sure you'll ask for
proof, that has been given on numerous ocassions. But it sure wont stop
you from asking.

Steve Carroll

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 1:12:28 PM3/13/04
to
In article <pan.2004.03.13....@hotmail.com>,
Steve Mackay <steve_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

It's easy to forget that he's on medication that might tend to make him
that way (seriously). If he is no longer taking it, you can read in the
anxiety NG why he should be back on it. Either way, probably due to his
severe anxiety disorders and the mental anguish likely surrounding them,
it's obvious he has pent up frustrations he's taking out on certain
posters. When they remove themselves from view (even for less than 24
hours) he begs for their attention... and if it isn't immediately
forthcoming, he seeks a fresh target. Somehow, he thinks he has hidden
these facts.

Steve

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 5:02:29 PM3/13/04
to
"Steve Mackay" <steve_...@hotmail.com> wrote in
pan.2004.03.13....@hotmail.com on 3/13/04 11:00 AM:

Nope... won't ask you for your splendid "proof" (playing those games has
become boring), just thank you for posting the meaningless flames in an
appropriate thread. Thanks!

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 5:05:04 PM3/13/04
to
"Steve Carroll" <fret...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote in
fretwizz-FC4606...@netnews.comcast.net on 3/13/04 11:12 AM:

Thanks for posting these lies in an appropriately named thread. You do
realize, don't you, that most, if not all, of what you have stated above is
at best based on sheer ignorance, and, most likely is just a lie.

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 6:37:47 PM3/13/04
to
"Steve Carroll" <fret...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote in
fretwizz-528945...@netnews.comcast.net on 3/13/04 10:59 AM:

Just a few words:

Once again you have managed to elicit a response from me. Good job. Just a
shame that you have had to debase yourself even further to do it. You are
sinking to a new low, even for you.

Ok...

1) I find it amusing that you seem me, the one with the "victim" mentality
also being the one to incite you, and then you claim even greater victim
mentality status for Elizabot. I do not claim to be the victim at all; as I
have clearly been able to get you (and your clique) to be my personal Spin
N' Speaks. And, just so you know, it has been working quite well. I can
not tell you how many laughs I have gotten from you. Thanks.

You refer to posts where someone, possibly you, was trying to yank my chain
and I did not bite. So? Please note: that particular trolling failed.
Well, mostly. I did start to respond, then decided the guy was not worth
it. See what happened... the thread died. Nobody cared. Well, nobody who
is not obsessed with getting revenge against me for pointing out there lies.

For the record, I did try to get you to be reasonable several times. I
failed. You did nothing but Spin N' Speak. And rarely nothing more
valuable than "moo".

2) What "mental problems" do you refer to? Seems you are clearly ignorant
of anxiety disorders in general and my history in particular. Suffice it to
say you are simply wrong. For the record, I have told you about you being
wrong, and you continue to repeat the lie.

You have spent time and effort to dig up old posts of mine dealing with my
health. In what way are they related to anything in here? For that matter,
why the obsession to dig that far into my posting history? You and Elizabot
truly are obsessed. Why try, in an ignorant and even bigoted way, to use
them against me in a Usenet forum. You have claimed not to be an ignorant
bigot. I accepted that from you and told you I would not use your previous
comments that suggested such against you. I have not. But you are using
similar concepts here.

I suppose this is your way of trying to "pull my strings": you have found
out that I have a serious and possibly life altering and even debilitating
disorder and you want to throw that into the mix? You must really be
desperate. Seriously, Steve, I hope you do not sink to that level in your
lies and your obsession to get revenge, but I would not be surprised if you
did.

Are you so morally corrupt as to lie about my unrelated medical history as a
weapon to try to embarrass me? Sorry - anyone can look at my site. Who
cares about your apparent bigotry other than you? If I were embarrassed or
ashamed of my health problems, I would not post about them.

Really Steve, if you were to find out I were a part of some minority group
that ignorant and bigoted people might use as a reason to believe your lies,
would you focus on that as well? Here is some ammo for you: I am part
polish. There are many polish jokes on the web, and you can even find books
filled with them. If you think it will help your wounded ego to use that as
well, let your lies continue to fly.

digitaleon

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 6:56:47 PM3/13/04
to
To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,

>>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,

>> I admit I haven't read Macworld for a bit. Is it still going strong?
>
> Seems to be. I have been getting it for a year based on a free offer.
> Some of the reviews can be pretty good - most of the rest I find
> online via frequent skimming of http://macsurfer.com

Cool. Thanks for letting me know.

>> In the case of the customised, tested build of Windows, its' been
>> essentially trouble-free (I get to support it by day...). The same
>> unfortunately cannot be said in the case of applications running on
>> top of it (namely, Ybghf Abgrf).
>
> The college where I work uses "Ybghf Abgrf", and nobody seems to like
> it. I am only a part time instructor, so I do not get stuck with it.
> I do get stuck with no office and no benefits. If I am offered a full
> time job, is it worth the trade off? :)

Yes, certainly. There's nothing really wrong with Abgrf as far as using
it goes, I just wish it was somewhat less buggy and somewhat less crash
prone than it is. I would love there to be a "Copy Into" function in
Mail to create new Calendar and To Do entries in iCal from an e-mail,
or the ability to have a rotating archive system. OTOH, you can't
really filter things to folders in Abgrf because then there's no
immediate way to know which folders have new messages in them. It's
really just a matter of dealing with it differently than you would
Mail.

>> Over the past month, the number of e-mails sent with virus
>> attachments has jumped by something like 500%. Organisations that
>> were previously trapping only a few dozen to a few hundred per day
>> are now trapping thousands per day.
>>

>> Putting that together with spam and message bounces, it's a wonder
>> people don't just give up on e-mail...
>
> The sad thing is 99% of this garbage seems to be spread not just from
> Windows, but specifically from Outlook or Outlook Express. Maybe
> Apple can do the world a favor and port Mail to XP. :)

The continued lack of proper security features in the Outlook and
Exchange product families is not forgivable.

Mail on XP... that would be interesting, especially the Aqua interface
;-)

>> Having virus protection, even though I'm very unlikely to ever have a


>> problem, lets me stand on the moral high ground when dealing with
>> those who just don't care - generally people with Windows computers
>> at home who think they're smarter than the virii and don't need
>> protection because they're careful. It doesn't work with sex, and I
>> don't think it'll ever work with virii ;-)
>
> Good analogy. :) To be fair, I almost never send anything with an
> attachment, other than the occasional jpg, so I figure my chances of
> forwarding a virus is pretty slim.

Same here. I find that there's really no reason to send executables
about the place by e-mail.

>> Fortunately, the $org I support takes virus prevention very seriously
>> and has virus protection on everything they can. The best
>> preventative being that _all_ e-mails in & out are scanned for virii
>> and for anything executable.
>
> The college I work at *claims* to do the same, but they still have
> been hit a few times.

The $org I support has also been hit a few times. It's inevitable. But
having to clean up once or twice a year is better than having to clean
up thrice or quace a fortnight on networks where virus protection is
not taken seriously.

> I do an incremental backup of my User and Application folders once a
> week. Of course, since I do this to a second internal hard drive, if
> my computer gets stolen, lost in a fire, or something similar that
> will do me absolutely no good.

I've been doing them to re-writeable CD, and the full backups onto CD-R.
Will soon have a SuperDrive and can do it onto DVD (finally!).

>>> There is no spyware... so no need. Yet.
>>
>> Long may it last! Sadly, I fear this year will be the year the
>> Macintosh is compromised by this particular breed of scum.
>
> It will happen. I can not say when, but I am surprised it is not
> already happening.

So am I :-(

>>> You seem quite fair minded about all this. Rare in csma. Thanks...
>>
>> Why thankyou :-) That is a rare compliment in an advocacy group. I'd
>> like to extend the compliment to you as well, because it's always a
>> pleasure to discuss a topic like this intelligently and
>> interestingly.
>
> Thanks. For the opposing view, read just a few posts from Steve or
> Elizabot. They slam me in almost every post. It has gotten so bad
> that I have asked them to at least place "Flame:" in the subject lines
> so that others can ignore them - there have been quite a few
> complaints.

I've been watching these threads go back and forth for weeks now. I've
simply been ignoring them (and for that matter, most threads which have
been peripheral to Macintosh advocacy).

digitaleon.

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 7:12:11 PM3/13/04
to
"digitaleon" <thi...@fake.address> wrote in
3dN4c.2452489$9p3.4...@news.easynews.com on 3/13/04 4:56 PM:

> To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,
>
>>>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>
>>> I admit I haven't read Macworld for a bit. Is it still going strong?
>>
>> Seems to be. I have been getting it for a year based on a free offer.
>> Some of the reviews can be pretty good - most of the rest I find
>> online via frequent skimming of http://macsurfer.com
>
> Cool. Thanks for letting me know.

It, and the sites it points to of course, are really about all I ever need
to know. The only "hard" part is figuring out how much I really want to
read. I generally skim the top links section, click on the ones I want, and
then ignore most of the rest accept macosxhints.com and versiontracker.

One think I *really* like about Safari is I can click on the links with the
scroll wheel button on my mouse and they open in another tab - but keep the
current tab in focus. I end up just scrolling and clicking to get all the
links I want. Has me sold on Safari.


>
>>> In the case of the customised, tested build of Windows, its' been
>>> essentially trouble-free (I get to support it by day...). The same
>>> unfortunately cannot be said in the case of applications running on
>>> top of it (namely, Ybghf Abgrf).
>>
>> The college where I work uses "Ybghf Abgrf", and nobody seems to like
>> it. I am only a part time instructor, so I do not get stuck with it.
>> I do get stuck with no office and no benefits. If I am offered a full
>> time job, is it worth the trade off? :)
>
> Yes, certainly. There's nothing really wrong with Abgrf as far as using
> it goes, I just wish it was somewhat less buggy and somewhat less crash
> prone than it is. I would love there to be a "Copy Into" function in
> Mail to create new Calendar and To Do entries in iCal from an e-mail,
> or the ability to have a rotating archive system. OTOH, you can't
> really filter things to folders in Abgrf because then there's no
> immediate way to know which folders have new messages in them. It's
> really just a matter of dealing with it differently than you would
> Mail.

I am not sure if the college mandates usage or if they just place it on
everyone's machines so it has become the norm. Hopefully, if I ever do get
to full time, I can get a Mac and an XP machine to help stay current on
both.


>
>>> Over the past month, the number of e-mails sent with virus
>>> attachments has jumped by something like 500%. Organisations that
>>> were previously trapping only a few dozen to a few hundred per day
>>> are now trapping thousands per day.
>>>
>>> Putting that together with spam and message bounces, it's a wonder
>>> people don't just give up on e-mail...
>>
>> The sad thing is 99% of this garbage seems to be spread not just from
>> Windows, but specifically from Outlook or Outlook Express. Maybe
>> Apple can do the world a favor and port Mail to XP. :)
>
> The continued lack of proper security features in the Outlook and
> Exchange product families is not forgivable.
>
> Mail on XP... that would be interesting, especially the Aqua interface
> ;-)

Don't hold your breath.


>
>>> Having virus protection, even though I'm very unlikely to ever have a
>>> problem, lets me stand on the moral high ground when dealing with
>>> those who just don't care - generally people with Windows computers
>>> at home who think they're smarter than the virii and don't need
>>> protection because they're careful. It doesn't work with sex, and I
>>> don't think it'll ever work with virii ;-)
>>
>> Good analogy. :) To be fair, I almost never send anything with an
>> attachment, other than the occasional jpg, so I figure my chances of
>> forwarding a virus is pretty slim.
>
> Same here. I find that there's really no reason to send executables
> about the place by e-mail.

As someone who does not write programs, I can not think of a time I have had
a need. If I want to suggest some shareware, I just send a link to the
site. Easier, safer, more fair to the software author, and teaches
independence.


>
>>> Fortunately, the $org I support takes virus prevention very seriously
>>> and has virus protection on everything they can. The best
>>> preventative being that _all_ e-mails in & out are scanned for virii
>>> and for anything executable.
>>
>> The college I work at *claims* to do the same, but they still have
>> been hit a few times.
>
> The $org I support has also been hit a few times. It's inevitable. But
> having to clean up once or twice a year is better than having to clean
> up thrice or quace a fortnight on networks where virus protection is
> not taken seriously.

True. Just annoying that it has to be such a concern on Windows. And it is
amazing that even with the protection you describe, garbage still gets
through.


>
>> I do an incremental backup of my User and Application folders once a
>> week. Of course, since I do this to a second internal hard drive, if
>> my computer gets stolen, lost in a fire, or something similar that
>> will do me absolutely no good.
>
> I've been doing them to re-writeable CD, and the full backups onto CD-R.
> Will soon have a SuperDrive and can do it onto DVD (finally!).

I have a SuperDrive, but the blank media is too expensive for me to use as
frequent backups. Then again, losing my computer would be expensive, too...


>
>>>> There is no spyware... so no need. Yet.
>>>
>>> Long may it last! Sadly, I fear this year will be the year the
>>> Macintosh is compromised by this particular breed of scum.
>>
>> It will happen. I can not say when, but I am surprised it is not
>> already happening.
>
> So am I :-(

I suppose this is one good thing about low market share... that does reduce
the chances.


>
>>>> You seem quite fair minded about all this. Rare in csma. Thanks...
>>>
>>> Why thankyou :-) That is a rare compliment in an advocacy group. I'd
>>> like to extend the compliment to you as well, because it's always a
>>> pleasure to discuss a topic like this intelligently and
>>> interestingly.
>>
>> Thanks. For the opposing view, read just a few posts from Steve or
>> Elizabot. They slam me in almost every post. It has gotten so bad
>> that I have asked them to at least place "Flame:" in the subject lines
>> so that others can ignore them - there have been quite a few
>> complaints.
>
> I've been watching these threads go back and forth for weeks now. I've
> simply been ignoring them (and for that matter, most threads which have
> been peripheral to Macintosh advocacy).

Seems the smartest thing to do... :)

Steve Carroll

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 8:19:58 PM3/13/04
to
In article <BC78E95B.43506%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:

I'm sorry, but no matter how much you want it to be so, me, talking
about the likely cause of your often strange behavior, isn't debasing
myself in any way. At this point, I consider this an unpleasant
necessity. If I wanted to 'attack' you with it, as you seem to think, I
could have brought it up in many ways other than this and have done so
long ago. Why would I have waited? This makes no sense.

> Ok...
>
> 1) I find it amusing that you seem me, the one with the "victim" mentality
> also being the one to incite you, and then you claim even greater victim
> mentality status for Elizabot. I do not claim to be the victim at all; as I
> have clearly been able to get you (and your clique) to be my personal Spin
> N' Speaks. And, just so you know, it has been working quite well. I can
> not tell you how many laughs I have gotten from you. Thanks.

But Snit, Elizabot IS a victim... of your sexual harrassment. Your spin
n speak is nothing more than another manifestation of your obsessive
behavior.

> You refer to posts where someone, possibly you, was trying to yank my chain
> and I did not bite. So? Please note: that particular trolling failed.
> Well, mostly. I did start to respond, then decided the guy was not worth
> it. See what happened... the thread died. Nobody cared. Well, nobody who
> is not obsessed with getting revenge against me for pointing out there lies.

I'm sorry... I don't follow all your posts like you seem to think I
should. I really don't know what you are talking about here but I
suggest that if nobody cared it's because they are consciously avoiding
threads you start like that. Can you blame them? In one recent thread I
saw another poster named Wally get involved and you quickly subjected
him to your usual crap and he slammed your for it. When you get to the
point where you're asking where Elizabot, Steve and myself were because
we hadn't posted in a 12 hour period... well... that's just abnormal.
You were looking for an argument at that point. If you noticed, none of
us obliged in any appreciable way... but Wally sure gave you a look at
some reality you quickly denied existed.

> For the record, I did try to get you to be reasonable several times. I
> failed. You did nothing but Spin N' Speak. And rarely nothing more
> valuable than "moo".
>
> 2) What "mental problems" do you refer to? Seems you are clearly ignorant
> of anxiety disorders in general and my history in particular. Suffice it to
> say you are simply wrong. For the record, I have told you about you being
> wrong, and you continue to repeat the lie.

Well... like I said, it's evident that you are in denial about your
frequent delusional behavior on this NG. It doesn't much matter as
people in here have eyes... and memories.

> You have spent time and effort to dig up old posts of mine dealing with my
> health. In what way are they related to anything in here? For that matter,
> why the obsession to dig that far into my posting history? You and Elizabot
> truly are obsessed. Why try, in an ignorant and even bigoted way, to use
> them against me in a Usenet forum. You have claimed not to be an ignorant
> bigot. I accepted that from you and told you I would not use your previous
> comments that suggested such against you. I have not. But you are using
> similar concepts here.

I didn't dig up anything... you pointed me at it. For the longest time I
knew there was a problem with you and as I saw you exhibit the same kind
of behavior with more and more posters, I took your suggestion and read
your site. What I saw there opened my eyes.

> I suppose this is your way of trying to "pull my strings": you have found
> out that I have a serious and possibly life altering and even debilitating
> disorder and you want to throw that into the mix? You must really be
> desperate. Seriously, Steve, I hope you do not sink to that level in your
> lies and your obsession to get revenge, but I would not be surprised if you
> did.

What am I desperate about? Trying to make you look bad? I have no need
to, you do it all by yourself. I'm trying to help you by suggesting you
back off on engaging people because you seem to come apart when the
stress level gets too high. You seem to want to fight as opposed to
argue your points but you are unable to do either effectively.

> Are you so morally corrupt as to lie about my unrelated medical history as a
> weapon to try to embarrass me? Sorry - anyone can look at my site. Who
> cares about your apparent bigotry other than you? If I were embarrassed or
> ashamed of my health problems, I would not post about them.

You have no reason to be ashamed but you cannot pretend that you are not
affected by the medication you take, it's just too obvious there is some
sort of a problem. That is the only reason I even bring this up. You
post a lot of bizarre stuff in here and there is obviously a reason for
it. You cannot hide from this.



> Really Steve, if you were to find out I were a part of some minority group
> that ignorant and bigoted people might use as a reason to believe your lies,
> would you focus on that as well? Here is some ammo for you: I am part
> polish. There are many polish jokes on the web, and you can even find books
> filled with them. If you think it will help your wounded ego to use that as
> well, let your lies continue to fly.
>

My ego, the idea that I am 'desperate' or you being Polish have nothing
to do with anything. Your condition puts you into an entirely different
league as you are on at least one medication (and maybe several more you
haven't mentioned) that has some serious side effects... surely your Dr.
has made you aware... if not:


Paxil - Seroxat (Paroxetine) Side Effects

Frequent - Paxil - Seroxat (Paroxetine) Side Effects

Body as a Whole: Malaise (a vague feeling of bodily discomfort), pain.
Cardiovascular: Hypertension, syncope (a sudden loss of strength, a
temporary suspension of consciousness due to cerebral anemia),
tachycardia (excessive rapidity in the action of the heart).
Dermatological: Pruritus (Intense itching) Gastrointestinal: Nausea and
vomiting. Metabolic and Nutritional: Weight gain, weight loss. Nervous
System: Central Nervous System stimulation, concentration impaired,
depression, emotional lability (emotional instability), vertigo (a
hallucination of movement; a sensation as if the external world were
revolving around the patient or as if he himself were revolving in
space). Respiratory: Cough increased, rhinitis (inflammation of the
mucus membrane of the nose).


There are many more but the ones included above are enough for anyone in
here to realize that you are suffering from at least some of these and
show it regularly in this NG. For you to try and pretend you are just
fine and never exhibit any symptoms is part of an associative disorder
people with anxiety conditions like yours often display, particularly
when they are introduced into what they perceive as a higher stress
level situation. There is no question you are 'concentration impaired'
and you are trying to function at a level your medication prevents you
from functioning at... the result is increased 'emotional instability',
anger and frustration. Along with your obsessive behavior, all of this
is very evident in many of your posts as it manifests itself in the many
strange ways you often show. You got really bizarre with Elizabot... up
until that point I thought you were just being an angry asshole but when
you did that shit I realized something else was going on. Recently, you
told me you had NO health problems (mental or otherwise) ... that is
simply not the case. You need to deal with the anger, figure out ways to
just 'let it go'. Look at the reality of it... who here, other than you,
has a website where they try to publicly make people look like fools
because others disagree with an argument they think they have proven? Is
this healthy behavior for you, with the condition you have? It's
obsession, frustration and anger that drove you to do such a thing. That
you don't see it only exemplifies the problem.

Steve

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 8:47:39 PM3/13/04
to
Steve, you have been asked to move your flames to reasonably named threads
(as I have now done so). If you do so, maybe I will give you another round
of flame wars that you so clearly are seeking with me. Maybe not... I have
gotten bored with your style. In any case, please post future flames to an
appropriately named thread.

Even then, showing extreme ignorance and bigotry toward people with health
concerns is *not* something I am going to even humor with detailed responses
to.

"Steve Carroll" <fret...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote in

fretwizz-608A68...@netnews.comcast.net on 3/13/04 6:19 PM:

digitaleon

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 9:24:55 PM3/13/04
to
To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,

>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,

> One thing I *really* like about Safari is I can click on the links


> with the scroll wheel button on my mouse and they open in another tab
> - but keep the current tab in focus. I end up just scrolling and
> clicking to get all the links I want. Has me sold on Safari.

I didn't know about that. Nice! I'm hoping OW 5 will have the same
feature (since that's my main browser and probably will be for a long
time to come - it's shaping up well, despite being at b3).

> I am not sure if the college mandates [Abgrf] usage or if they just


> place it on everyone's machines so it has become the norm. Hopefully,
> if I ever do get to full time, I can get a Mac and an XP machine to
> help stay current on both.

It depends what your mail system is based on. If it's Qbzvab based, then
Abgrf will be mandatory. If it's based on something more standard like
POP, then you can skip it. Also, note that you can get Abgrf for Mac OS
X, and it essentially works identically to Abgrf for Windows.

>> The continued lack of proper security features in the Outlook and
>> Exchange product families is not forgivable.
>>
>> Mail on XP... that would be interesting, especially the Aqua
>> interface ;-)
>
> Don't hold your breath.

Tell me about it! Having either of these issues resolved would see me
checking on sales of ice skates and thermoses....

> As someone who does not write programs, I can not think of a time I
> have had a need. If I want to suggest some shareware, I just send a
> link to the site. Easier, safer, more fair to the software author,
> and teaches independence.

As someone who does write programs occasionally, I agree with you. I've
only ever had a need once to send executable code via e-mail.
Otherwise, there's simply no advantage to it than just linking to an
FTP or HTTP server.

>> The $org I support has also been hit a few times. It's inevitable.
>> But having to clean up once or twice a year is better than having to
>> clean up thrice or quace a fortnight on networks where virus
>> protection is not taken seriously.
>
> True. Just annoying that it has to be such a concern on Windows. And
> it is amazing that even with the protection you describe, garbage
> still gets through.

All it takes is one weak point. Virii in a sense are semi-systematic in
their finding of weak points through which to infect networks.
Unfortunately they don't bother to let you know how they got in so you
can 'plug the hole'; maybe there'll be a "noble virus" in the future
that does just that...

>> I've been doing them to re-writeable CD, and the full backups onto
>> CD-R. Will soon have a SuperDrive and can do it onto DVD (finally!).
>
> I have a SuperDrive, but the blank media is too expensive for me to
> use as frequent backups. Then again, losing my computer would be
> expensive, too...

I was actually thinking of the DVD's for the full backups only (so it
doesn't take a stack of CDs each time), and continuing to use CD-RWs
for the periodic backups.

> I suppose this is one good thing about low market share... that does

> reduce the chances [of developers creating adware + spyware].

Good, but in the grand scheme of things entirely too brief.

>> I've been watching these threads go back and forth for weeks now.
>> I've simply been ignoring them (and for that matter, most threads
>> which have been peripheral to Macintosh advocacy).
>
> Seems the smartest thing to do... :)

I thought so ;-)

digitaleon.

Steve Carroll

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 9:27:05 PM3/13/04
to
In article <BC7907CB.43547%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:

> Steve, you have been asked to move your flames to reasonably named threads
> (as I have now done so). If you do so, maybe I will give you another round
> of flame wars that you so clearly are seeking with me. Maybe not... I have
> gotten bored with your style. In any case, please post future flames to an
> appropriately named thread.

If and when I get to the point where I decide I want to flame you,
perhaps I'll consider it. Until then, when I find it necessary to point
out the truth of actual reality, not the stuff floating around in your
damaged psyche, I will do just that.

> Even then, showing extreme ignorance and bigotry toward people with health
> concerns is *not* something I am going to even humor with detailed responses
> to.

I see denial is still the order of the day for you, it's a shame...

I didn't really expect you to address any of this but I hope you
seriously consider what I've discussed with you here. I suggest that if
you back off with your paranoid victim mentality, you might find you are
'attacked' with much less frequency. Give it some thought... OK?

Steve

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 10:13:17 PM3/13/04
to
"digitaleon" <thi...@fake.address> wrote in
XnP4c.10627437$Of.17...@news.easynews.com on 3/13/04 7:24 PM:

> To comp.sys.mac.advocacy subscribers,
>
>>> From: digitaleon <thi...@fake.address>,
>> From: Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>
>> One thing I *really* like about Safari is I can click on the links
>> with the scroll wheel button on my mouse and they open in another tab
>> - but keep the current tab in focus. I end up just scrolling and
>> clicking to get all the links I want. Has me sold on Safari.
>
> I didn't know about that. Nice! I'm hoping OW 5 will have the same
> feature (since that's my main browser and probably will be for a long
> time to come - it's shaping up well, despite being at b3).

All you need to do for Safari is go to the Safari > Preferences, select
"tabs", and check "Enable Tabbed Browsing". I also select, from the General
options, "Open links from applications: in new tab in the current window".
Safari is far from perfect, but it really is amazingly well done.



>> I am not sure if the college mandates [Abgrf] usage or if they just
>> place it on everyone's machines so it has become the norm. Hopefully,
>> if I ever do get to full time, I can get a Mac and an XP machine to
>> help stay current on both.
>
> It depends what your mail system is based on. If it's Qbzvab based, then
> Abgrf will be mandatory. If it's based on something more standard like
> POP, then you can skip it. Also, note that you can get Abgrf for Mac OS
> X, and it essentially works identically to Abgrf for Windows.

Just out of curiosity, why do you call it "abgrf" instead of... well... I
will not ruin it for those not in the "know".


>
>>> The continued lack of proper security features in the Outlook and
>>> Exchange product families is not forgivable.
>>>
>>> Mail on XP... that would be interesting, especially the Aqua
>>> interface ;-)
>>
>> Don't hold your breath.
>
> Tell me about it! Having either of these issues resolved would see me
> checking on sales of ice skates and thermoses....

LOL. I have a headache tonight... took me a second.


>
>> As someone who does not write programs, I can not think of a time I
>> have had a need. If I want to suggest some shareware, I just send a
>> link to the site. Easier, safer, more fair to the software author,
>> and teaches independence.
>
> As someone who does write programs occasionally, I agree with you. I've
> only ever had a need once to send executable code via e-mail.
> Otherwise, there's simply no advantage to it than just linking to an
> FTP or HTTP server.

Yup. I suppose I have written a few AppleScript programs, and some
FileMaker Pro executables (with the developer edition) but then I just
transferred via a network...


>
>>> The $org I support has also been hit a few times. It's inevitable.
>>> But having to clean up once or twice a year is better than having to
>>> clean up thrice or quace a fortnight on networks where virus
>>> protection is not taken seriously.
>>
>> True. Just annoying that it has to be such a concern on Windows. And
>> it is amazing that even with the protection you describe, garbage
>> still gets through.
>
> All it takes is one weak point. Virii in a sense are semi-systematic in
> their finding of weak points through which to infect networks.
> Unfortunately they don't bother to let you know how they got in so you
> can 'plug the hole'; maybe there'll be a "noble virus" in the future
> that does just that...

I am surprised nobody writes those. Imagine a little pop-up "If you are
reading this message, your firewall is really bad, please check ports ...".

Of course, if people did this, other virus writers would write ones to
lie...


>
>>> I've been doing them to re-writeable CD, and the full backups onto
>>> CD-R. Will soon have a SuperDrive and can do it onto DVD (finally!).
>>
>> I have a SuperDrive, but the blank media is too expensive for me to
>> use as frequent backups. Then again, losing my computer would be
>> expensive, too...
>
> I was actually thinking of the DVD's for the full backups only (so it
> doesn't take a stack of CDs each time), and continuing to use CD-RWs
> for the periodic backups.

Makes sense. I *should* be doing that.

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 10:37:00 PM3/13/04
to
"Steve Carroll" <fret...@NOSPAMattbi.com> wrote in
fretwizz-66455A...@netnews.comcast.net on 3/13/04 7:27 PM:

> In article <BC7907CB.43547%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
> Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Steve, you have been asked to move your flames to reasonably named threads
>> (as I have now done so). If you do so, maybe I will give you another round
>> of flame wars that you so clearly are seeking with me. Maybe not... I have
>> gotten bored with your style. In any case, please post future flames to an
>> appropriately named thread.
>
> If and when I get to the point where I decide I want to flame you,
> perhaps I'll consider it. Until then, when I find it necessary to point
> out the truth of actual reality, not the stuff floating around in your
> damaged psyche, I will do just that.

You clearly are flaming me. I suggest you look into the meaning of the
word, as it applies to Usenet.

-----
Originally, "flame" meant to carry forth in a passionate manner in the
spirit of honorable debate. Flames most often involved the use of flowery
language and flaming well was an art form. More recently flame has come to
refer to any kind of derogatory comment no matter how witless or crude. See
also: Flame War
www.matisse.net/files/glossary.html
-----

-----
A flame is usually a message that is extremely critical, and often
irrational, of someone or something. Sometimes flames are intentionally
trying to start a flame war--a series of many messages with people
essentially yelling at each other. Such deliberately provocative messages
are often called trolls (the same term is used for those who post them).
Flame wars are extremely common, and if you've been active on Usenet for any
time at all you've probably been involved in one. Anyone who expresses any
strong opinions is generally considered fair game by flamers, so don't take
it personally--consider it a compliment that you are, at least, making an
impression.
www.technomom.com/harassed/defmain.shtml
-----

-----
A deliberately insulting e-mail message or post to a USENET newsgroup,
usually containing personal attack on the writer of an earlier post.
www.angelfire.com/ny3/diGi8tech/FGlossary.html
-----

>
>> Even then, showing extreme ignorance and bigotry toward people with health
>> concerns is *not* something I am going to even humor with detailed responses
>> to.
>
> I see denial is still the order of the day for you, it's a shame...

Steve, you are being bigoted, or more accurately, prejudicial. What else do
you call your partiality that leads you to believe people with anxiety
disorders are in some way irrational when it comes to the topics we have
discussed? Do you deny you are doing this? If not, what, exactly, are you
talking about. In your normal way, you will avoid this question. That is
OK. I will simply be able to add it to the list of questions you are
unwilling or unable to answer. Then, when I am bored, I can post the list
for you and watch you go into "Spin N' Speak" mode for me.

To be clear, the question is:

What condition do you think I have that affects my ability to post, and in
what way do you claim it affects it?

Perhaps you should cross post some of your comments to
alt.support.anxiety-panic. I am sure someone there, someone who has not
shared our history, would be happy to help you. In any case, you may be
more likely to believe what you are told, unless you really believe all of
"us" are irrational loons.

In short, Steve, you are, simply, wrong about your prejudicial and bigoted
beliefs. Once before I had decided to trust you when you claimed you were
not openly bigoted. It seems you are placing that into question. What other
groups do you think are "parasites" on others in society?

Face it Steve, you have shown your ignorance, again.

MR_ED_of_Course

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 10:43:44 PM3/13/04
to
in article fretwizz-66455A...@netnews.comcast.net, Steve Carroll
at fret...@NOSPAMattbi.com wrote on 3/13/04 6:27 PM:

> In article <BC7907CB.43547%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
> Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Steve, you have been asked to move your flames to reasonably named threads
>> (as I have now done so). If you do so, maybe I will give you another round
>> of flame wars that you so clearly are seeking with me. Maybe not... I have
>> gotten bored with your style. In any case, please post future flames to an
>> appropriately named thread.
>
> If and when I get to the point where I decide I want to flame you,
> perhaps I'll consider it. Until then, when I find it necessary to point
> out the truth of actual reality, not the stuff floating around in your
> damaged psyche, I will do just that.

Steve (and others),

With all due respect, what does this have to do with the OT?

It really sucks to see more and more threads here being pulled into this
nonsense that the overwhelming majority of people here don't care about let
alone even understand.

This request was made to Snit, Elizabot and anyone else in this war that's
going on and taking over this group.

Usually you have a group with one or two *full-time* jerks that you want to
kill file. The problem is that quite often all of you have things to say
that are of interest and on topic.

This is where the idea came to post your insults/complaints/whatever in a
new group or at least a new subject. Otherwise the result is that every
subject where one of you posts will ultimately end up turning into:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quit stalking me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quite harassing me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wah, wah, wah...

Really, why bother? Why not just set up a bot that automatically and
continuously responds to every post with:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 10:56:36 PM3/13/04
to
"MR_ED_of_Course" <OhNo...@pacbell.net> wrote in
BC7914EE.35444%OhNo...@pacbell.net on 3/13/04 8:43 PM:

Steve, do you maintain your delusion that your aggressive posts against me
are not flames?

Please, Steve, find a way to not pollute the group with your trash.

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 11:02:25 PM3/13/04
to
"MR_ED_of_Course" <OhNo...@pacbell.net> wrote in
BC7914EE.35444%OhNo...@pacbell.net on 3/13/04 8:43 PM:

> Steve (and others),


>
> With all due respect, what does this have to do with the OT?
>
> It really sucks to see more and more threads here being pulled into this
> nonsense that the overwhelming majority of people here don't care about let
> alone even understand.

Is my compromise acceptable: I have gone to just adding "Flame:" to the the
post subject?

That way:

1) You, and others, get what you want: you can easily ignore the
stupidity or even create a filter

2) Each of us can get what we want: the ability to maintain that
we have somehow gotten an upper hand in a meaningless debate
that nobody else cares about, and that somehow this will ruin
the others credibility. :)

Lloyd Parsons

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 11:20:39 PM3/13/04
to
In article <BC792761.43575%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>, Snit
<sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:

Or an even better solution, KNOCK THE CRAP OFF!

Of course, that would require common sense on both sides of this idiocy
and no sign of that has been seen.

Snit

unread,
Mar 13, 2004, 11:27:06 PM3/13/04
to
"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp...@spamac.com> wrote in
130320042218584075%lloydp...@spamac.com on 3/13/04 9:20 PM:

Well, I have reduced my posts to them a great deal. Hopefully they will do
the same. Admittedly, though, I seem to share a weakness with them that I
get a certain amount of enjoyment from them, as they clearly do from me. I
think my compromise is more likely to work, and gives everyone most of what
they want.

Steve Carroll

unread,
Mar 14, 2004, 12:50:26 AM3/14/04
to
In article <BC7914EE.35444%OhNo...@pacbell.net>,
MR_ED_of_Course <OhNo...@pacbell.net> wrote:

> in article fretwizz-66455A...@netnews.comcast.net, Steve Carroll
> at fret...@NOSPAMattbi.com wrote on 3/13/04 6:27 PM:
>
> > In article <BC7907CB.43547%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
> > Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Steve, you have been asked to move your flames to reasonably named threads
> >> (as I have now done so). If you do so, maybe I will give you another
> >> round
> >> of flame wars that you so clearly are seeking with me. Maybe not... I
> >> have
> >> gotten bored with your style. In any case, please post future flames to
> >> an
> >> appropriately named thread.
> >
> > If and when I get to the point where I decide I want to flame you,
> > perhaps I'll consider it. Until then, when I find it necessary to point
> > out the truth of actual reality, not the stuff floating around in your
> > damaged psyche, I will do just that.
>
> Steve (and others),
>
> With all due respect, what does this have to do with the OT?
>
> It really sucks to see more and more threads here being pulled into this
> nonsense that the overwhelming majority of people here don't care about let
> alone even understand.
>
> This request was made to Snit, Elizabot and anyone else in this war that's
> going on and taking over this group.

You obviously don't care but... you don't find it surprising in any
significant way that there is one common poster involved in all of these
'wars'? I don't think you are aware of some of the shit that Snit has
pulled in this NG. Snit has suggested that we confine our barbs to
threads preceded with the word 'Flame'. All well and good but he didn't
even stick to his own suggestion for more than about 2 minutes. IOW...
it was another disingneuous offer by Snit... business as usual. Sorry,
I'm not down with that... and when he tries to spread his bullshit with
my name, trust me, I WILL counter it. I suggest killfile me... then you
won't have to be bothered with my answers to him.

Steve

Steve Carroll

unread,
Mar 14, 2004, 12:54:00 AM3/14/04
to
In article <BC792D2A.4357B%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
Snit <sn...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:

Your offer to precede threads (that we confine our barbs to) with the
word 'Flame' was a bullshit offer. You didn't stick to it yourself. It
was as disingenuous as everything else you post. When I see my name
brought up in ANY thread where you are spreading your manure I will
confront you on it:)

Steve