Winbook 233 XL Goes Back
SJC
A short follow up to earlier postings re. my experience with the
WinBook 233 XL. I just got back from a trade show in Palm Springs. We
took our new WinBook loaded with our latest data acquisition software.
Our Windows 95 software interfaces with an A/D PCMCIA card.
First day in the booth I proudly point to the computer screen drawing
a potential customer to our super fast CSA display only to cringe in
horror when I notice our signal has flat lined. The signal generator
is fine, cables connected correctly, PCMCIA card checks OK but the
WinBook has forgotten how to communicate with the PCMCIA socket. I try
to save the day by whipping out our Sager 6280 and finish the demo.
Later that evening I hook up to the internet to down load my email and
the hard drive crashes. We finished the show with our Sager and the
WinBook goes back tomorrow to WinBook for the second time in less than
a month. They will keep the unit this time. I noticed that two of our
competitors use Sagers and when quizzed all agreed the machines were
not sexy or perfect but had never failed in the field.
Shawn P. Miller
Hi SJC,
I keep telling people not to worry about notebooks that use desktop CPUs. If
they are designed properly (such as your sager 6280 and mine 7200) that they
will work quite fine and last a long time. Its funny that everybody for
mobile CPUs keep telling me that longevity is a key factor of why they buy
machines with mobile CPUs. I guess your a case in which such a machine with
a mobile CPU didn't last to long.
Shawn Miller
SJC wrote in message <6btt7s$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Chris Holko
"Shawn P. Miller" <s...@jps.net> blithered:
>Hi SJC,
>
>I keep telling people not to worry about notebooks that use desktop CPUs. If
>they are designed properly (such as your sager 6280 and mine 7200) that they
>will work quite fine and last a long time. Its funny that everybody for
>mobile CPUs keep telling me that longevity is a key factor of why they buy
>machines with mobile CPUs. I guess your a case in which such a machine with
>a mobile CPU didn't last to long.
This isn't a case of mobile processor versus desktop. This is a case of a
Winbook laptop. Remember them from days gone past? Where keys actually
came loose and sometimes fell off???
Sorry, Winbooks are simply second tier, sometimes third tier notebooks.
Chris
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Erick
Shawn,
Sorry, I have to say this... but who said it was the CPU that was at
fault? You said it yourself, if it's built properly it should work fine,
so why bring up the mobile vs. desktop? People here complain about
Toshibas or IBMs breaking down... but since they use mobile CPUs are we
to assume that it is the processor's fault?
The argument for mobile is not just the CPU issue, the consensus is that
notebooks that use desktop CPUs to cut price also cut other things too.
The integration of the components, the chipsets... yada yada yada.
Sager's new 15.1" notebook can use a Tillamook, will I buy it? NO, I
don't think Sagers are as well built as the other brands... regardless
of whether or not it uses a mobile CPU.
And just for the record, I know we still have to settle this but all the
mags agree, mobile is better than desktop. Maybe desktop is cheaper (but
not by much any more)... but mobile uses less power, is thinner and
lighter. And I still think a notebook that uses it will have better
LONGEVITY than a desktop CPU.
Erick
--
Laptops/Notebooks Guide for the Mining Co. - http://laptops.miningco.com
and
Building the Notebook Buyer's HomePage at
http://www.edgeworld.com/notebook
Shawn P. Miller wrote:
>
> Hi SJC,
>
> I keep telling people not to worry about notebooks that use desktop CPUs. If
> they are designed properly (such as your sager 6280 and mine 7200) that they
> will work quite fine and last a long time. Its funny that everybody for
> mobile CPUs keep telling me that longevity is a key factor of why they buy
> machines with mobile CPUs. I guess your a case in which such a machine with
> a mobile CPU didn't last to long.
>
SJC
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:30:23 -0800, Erick <er...@edgeworld.com> wrote:
>Shawn,
>
>Sorry, I have to say this...
I certainly wasn't trying to argue for or against mobile chips in
laptop computers. We are always looking for good quality, DOS and
Windows compatible computers both desktop and laptop. I have had hands
on experience with many "name brand" and less well known systems.
We had high hopes for the WinBook 233 XL but were very disappointed
with the unit we just returned. If we had not had the Sager as backup
we would have been dead in the water! I still find the Sager 6280 to
be an excellent choice for our very demanding needs. We will continue
to evaluate systems for ourselves, dealers and customers and will
pass on our observations if relevant to this group.
Steve Janofsky
Forget the WinBook and Sager. Get a Micron!
Shawn P. Miller
Erick,
If you read the magazines carefully they don't say that they are better for
longevity or speed. Only for battery life. That I agree. If you think this
then why not prove it. I will take anyone on saying that mobile CPU
notebooks will outlive a desktop based one. You are simply incorrect. I have
given you several times the opportunity to set up a meeting with me and see
my Sager. I am giving you a chance to prove it to me and back up your
claims. What do you think?
Shawn Miller
Erick wrote in message <34E369...@edgeworld.com>...
>Shawn,
>
Erick
Shawn,
I will say this one last time:
According to all the people I've talked to (Intel engineers, big vendor
engineers), mobile is simply the better choice when it comes to a
notebook (especially in the 12x2x10 cases). I said before that based on
all the evidence it is **MY** opinion that mobile CPUs will have better
longevity than desktop CPUs in notebooks.
As for battery life we know for sure that mobile is better. But that's
NOT the only thing. According to all my tests and the tests in
magazines... PEFORMANCE is better too (and I have been reading them
carefully). You sent me your SI scores for your 233/64MB Sager. Those
scores were not much better than the 166/32MB machines that I've tested.
And compared to the 233/64MB mobile machines that I've tested recently,
they blow yours away. Do the newsgroup a favor, post your scores here
and then take a look at my scores at
http://laptops.miningco.com/bl_mmx#perf. Also look at the scores in PC
Magazine / Computer Shopper and *on average*, notebooks with a desktop
CPU score lower than mobile CPU notebooks. I'm talking ZD Benchmark
tests here, I know you like Norton SI but that just tests raw CPU power
which of course desktop CPUs should do well on. But in real life, with
applications running, disk drives being accessed and video being
updated over an extended amount of time (like normal usage) is where
the real test is, and that's what ZD does.
Maybe I'm wrong... until I run the ZD bench tests myself on your
notebook 5 times I'll never know, just name the place and the time
(sounds like the Old West).
Erick
Sure the XL broke down and the Sager saved you, but like I was telling
Shawn, I don't think it was the CPU. I am referring to notebooks in
general, while yours is a specific case. I'm sorry for your experience
but it's not proof of the mobile CPU vs. desktop CPU issue (which was my
point), it's proof of one Winbook XL vs. another Sager... that's it.
Erick
--
Laptops/Notebooks Guide for the Mining Co. - http://laptops.miningco.com
and
Building the Notebook Buyer's HomePage at
http://www.edgeworld.com/notebook
SJC wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:21:48 -0800, Erick <er...@edgeworld.com> wrote:
>
> >Shawn,
> >
> >I will say this one last time:
> >
> >According to all the people I've talked to (Intel engineers, big vendor
> >engineers), mobile is simply the better choice when it comes to a
> >notebook (especially in the 12x2x10 cases). I said before that based on
> >all the evidence it is **MY** opinion that mobile CPUs will have better
> >longevity than desktop CPUs in notebooks......
>
> As my wife is fond of saying "get real". In my "real world"
> comparison of a mobile CPU WinBook and a desktop CPU Sager, the
> WinBook dropped dead less than three weeks out of the factory (note:
> the original unit was returned to WinBook for repair three days after
> we first received it and the motherboard was replaced). A three month
> old Sager saved my butt and is still ticking. When I compared
> performance running our real-time data acquisition software the 166
> Sager actually out performed the 233 WinBook.
>
> I liked the WinBook case design and surface appearance of quality
> construction. The audio was weak but the keyboard and display
> excellent. I was disappointed with WinBook's policy of ignoring DOS
> but hoped that the XL would give us a low power, high performance
> alternative. Yet, in it's first day in the trenches the WinBook failed
> us possibly costing a sale. I know we may have had the unfortunate
> misfortune to get a rare lemon but the reality is that we are left
> with doubts about the suitability of the XL for mission critical data
> acquisition applications.
>
> Sam
> www.VI-Lab.com
SJC
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:21:48 -0800, Erick <er...@edgeworld.com> wrote:
>Shawn,
>
>I will say this one last time:
>
>According to all the people I've talked to (Intel engineers, big vendor
>engineers), mobile is simply the better choice when it comes to a
>notebook (especially in the 12x2x10 cases). I said before that based on
>all the evidence it is **MY** opinion that mobile CPUs will have better
SJC
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:35:12 -0800, Erick <er...@edgeworld.com> wrote:
>Sure the XL broke down and the Sager saved you, but like I was telling
>Shawn, I don't think it was the CPU. I am referring to notebooks in
>general, while yours is a specific case. I'm sorry for your experience
>but it's not proof of the mobile CPU vs. desktop CPU issue (which was my
>point), it's proof of one Winbook XL vs. another Sager... that's it.
>
Thank you, you made my point. The manufacturer and system design are
more important than CPU type. I also noticed that the Sager 6280 case
stayed cooler to touch than the WinBook XL. If heat is a major factor
in your equation this Sager model may have the upper hand.
PS I was sorry to see the WinBook go but I use computers to run a
business not play games.
>Erick
>--
Joe
Well, the mobile processor also runs cooler than the full power desktop chip.
In article <34e3e...@blushng.jps.net>, "Shawn P. Miller" <s...@jps.net>
>>Erick
>>--
>>Laptops/Notebooks Guide for the Mining Co. - http://laptops.miningco.com
>>and
>>Building the Notebook Buyer's HomePage at
>>http://www.edgeworld.com/notebook
>>