Why is IBM so expensive??
Jeff F
expensive?? The component list is only moderately impressive, surely not any
better than what's offered by Dell, GW or Toshiba.
What's so great about them??
Anyone with experience from many brands have any insight??
Jeff
knuj
chunky. You pay for good quality.
===============================
"Jeff F" <noth...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:ifPS8.4051$071.7...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
joni
for about $500 less
Why have I done this? quality of the product
"knuj" <kn...@spamgoaway.com> wrote in message
news:STPS8.366239$o66.9...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
bobb
wrote:
Once someone asked IBM's chairman, John Watson, what is so great about
IBM's products.
Most would think performance is on top of the list - NOPE.
John said #1 is Reliability, and performance is like 5th down the
list.
Now if you are a power user and fix your own things, and don't ever
need to call IBM, then save yourself some$ and buy whatever you like.
-bobb
La Bomba Subwoofa
"bobb" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3d1ce108....@news.mindspring.com...
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:47:58 GMT, "Jeff F" <noth...@nothanks.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I need a new laptop and like the sturdiness of the IMB. Why is it so
> >expensive?? The component list is only moderately impressive, surely not
any
> >better than what's offered by Dell, GW or Toshiba.
> >
> >What's so great about them??
> >
> >Anyone with experience from many brands have any insight??
>
>
> Once someone asked IBM's chairman, John Watson, what is so great about
> IBM's products.
>
> Most would think performance is on top of the list - NOPE.
>
> John said #1 is Reliability, and performance is like 5th down the
> list.
LOL. I'm reading this on my backup Sony Vaio, cuz my $3500 A30p Thinkpad
lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
>
> Now if you are a power user and fix your own things, and don't ever
> need to call IBM, then save yourself some$ and buy whatever you like.
Or, buy whatever you like and possibly be better off without IBM.
Signed,
2nd A30p, 5 time EZ-Serve veteran.
>
>
>
>
> -bobb
>
joni
"Marcio Watanabe" <mar...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:7drnhukifgst0m2q6...@4ax.com...
> "La Bomba Subwoofa" <usenet_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >LOL. I'm reading this on my backup Sony Vaio, cuz my $3500 A30p Thinkpad
> >lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
>
> service.
>
Lol how true
bobb
<usenet_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>LOL. I'm reading this on my backup Sony Vaio, cuz my $3500 A30p Thinkpad
>lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
I think I will put you in the category of people who a bad thing
happened to you once and then you whine for congress to change the law
because damn it, if it happened to you, it's must be bad to the whole
country.
To be fair, the A is the cheap IBM model. There have been a few IBM
duhs but hey, whatever makes ya happy.
-bobb
Paul Rubin
> >LOL. I'm reading this on my backup Sony Vaio, cuz my $3500 A30p Thinkpad
> >lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
> To be fair, the A is the cheap IBM model. There have been a few IBM
> duhs but hey, whatever makes ya happy.
The A is the cheap model?! Which is the expensive one??
bobb
<phr-n...@NOSPAMnightsong.com> wrote:
OK men, this is getting tiresome, which one is the cheap model then,
hey, I don't memorize this stuff. I just remember there was a cheap
model with the cheap plastic and the thick case. If you own an A
cool. Don't listen to everything I say.
-bobb
Paul Rubin
> >no...@nowhere.com (bobb) writes:
> >> >LOL. I'm reading this on my backup Sony Vaio, cuz my $3500 A30p Thinkpad
> >> >lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
> >> ...
> >> To be fair, the A is the cheap IBM model. There have been a few IBM
> >> duhs but hey, whatever makes ya happy.
>
> >The A is the cheap model?! Which is the expensive one??
>
> OK men, this is getting tiresome, which one is the cheap model then,
> hey, I don't memorize this stuff. I just remember there was a cheap
> model with the cheap plastic and the thick case. If you own an A
> cool. Don't listen to everything I say.
I think you mean the I series. The A series are expensive, especially
the A20p/A21p/A30p (the "p" means professional model).
Gary Reichlinger
>The promise of IBM driver support and parts availability throughout
>the life-cycle of the machine.
For example, I recently called IBM parts to see if they had a
part for a printer I bought in 1978. It was in stock and shipped the
next day.
Michael Simon
wrote:
>I need a new laptop and like the sturdiness of the IMB. Why is it so
>expensive?? The component list is only moderately impressive, surely not any
>better than what's offered by Dell, GW or Toshiba.
>
>What's so great about them??
Marketing. You pay for a insurance company. Nothing more.
The Vaio GRX series are as sturdy as the IBMs and have a better
display. Imagine yourself IBM doesn't deliver any backup CDs, they put
the restore files on a HD partition! Not professional at all IMHO.
--
Sony Vaio GRX - Erfahrungsbericht
Tipps, Tricks und Zubehör
http://www.pages.at/heaven/grx316/
La Bomba Subwoofa
> >lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
>
> service.
Very true, but then Sony's not supposed to be known for good service. IBM
on the other hand...
>
La Bomba Subwoofa
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 04:41:41 GMT, "La Bomba Subwoofa"
> <usenet_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >LOL. I'm reading this on my backup Sony Vaio, cuz my $3500 A30p Thinkpad
> >lay dead and awaiting replacement and/or service.
>
>
> I think I will put you in the category of people who a bad thing
> happened to you once and then you whine for congress to change the law
> because damn it, if it happened to you, it's must be bad to the whole
> country.
And some may characterize you as an IBM-humping proselytizer who cannot
imagine the possibility that somebody may have a legitimate beef with some
IBM hardware or service.
>
> To be fair, the A is the cheap IBM model. There have been a few IBM
> duhs but hey, whatever makes ya happy.
Cheap? You cannot mean price, because cheap the A30p was not. Quality?
Maybe. Customer Service and support? Yeah, I'd agree with that.
>
>
>
>
> -bobb
>
La Bomba Subwoofa
"Paul Rubin" <phr-n...@NOSPAMnightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7x6603j...@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
When I purchased my A30p, it was -the- most expensive A series model there
was, the "flagship" A series product if you will. I think I paid just under
$3500 for it (tax incl), and that was after a 10% corporate discount. I
think you could get a stripped down bare bones A series for just over 2K but
you didn't get wireless, and all the other "goodies". I think the most
expensive was the T23 decked out with everything (at that time - this is
going back to last fall). That was, I believe, around $3800 or more with
tax.
I have posted my experiences with my A30p units (i've had two now) on this
forum since getting them last year. I wish I could say it's been the "IBM
experience" I read about and the experience that led me to choosing IBM. It
has been nothing like that.
The problems fall into three categories, A.) Hardware, B.) EZ-Serve and C.)
Help Desk Support. Long story short, I have what's known as a "Lemon" in
the car business. Been through hell with this A30p, everything from
defective, knocking hard drives, to defective LCD screens, to a machine that
would crash inexplicably every time it was booted up (with SVCHOST.EXE
errors) to a Bluetooth folder that would always pop up when the system
booted, to EZ-Serve fucking up almost anything they got their hands on, to
totally incompetent 1st level support, and the list goes on and on and on.
knuj
experience with IBM over the last 20 years.
The Sony GRX is my machine of choice and I certainly prefer it to the IBM
models, but if the Sony fails I expect to have trouble with Sony support
whereas I know that IBM support is good.
====================================
"Michael Simon" <mi...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:ltqohuov283644ic0...@4ax.com...
knuj
1. That a printer bought in 1978 is useful at all for anything.
2. That IBM has had to cover the cost of the inventory for the spare parts
for so long
=======================
"Gary Reichlinger" <rei...@navix.net> wrote in message
news:3d1c634...@news.navix.net...
AJ Wells
competition? I would rank the keyboard on the T22/23 series BELOW the most
generic HP, Compaq or Toshiba... its squishy and has a number of dead spots
and flexes much more than HP or Compaq or Dell... there is really no longer
the superiority that there was with the 600 and 700 series... so the
keyboard and "fit and finish" are non-issues now... screens might still be a
little superior on some models, but not to justify the price premium... I
wish it did, I would buy several new Thinkpads... but after returning a few
of the T, A and X series I am waiting for someone to step up and make a
modern laptop to compare with the 600/700 series... hopefully someone will
Ajw
"joni" <jpj...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uhnkp3c...@corp.supernews.com...
Bob Kos
IBM Support is great. I had a laptop go down a few years back. Called
support. Talked with an INTELLIGENT person who acted like he gave a
shit about what was happening. Next day a FedEx box shows up at my door
to package the laptop & ship. Shipped on IBM's dime. Got the machine
back less than a week later fully operational & clean.
Was the machine expensive??? I don't think so.
Just my real world experience. Your actual mileage may vary.
Bruce Markowitz
anything
On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 04:41:41 GMT, "La Bomba Subwoofa"
<usenet_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bruce Markowitz
La Bomba Subwoofa
"Bob Kos" <bk...@ghplus.infi.net> wrote in message
news:3D1E596C...@ghplus.infi.net...
> Jeff F wrote:
> >
> > I need a new laptop and like the sturdiness of the IMB. Why is it so
> > expensive?? The component list is only moderately impressive, surely not
any
> > better than what's offered by Dell, GW or Toshiba.
> >
> > What's so great about them??
> >
> > Anyone with experience from many brands have any insight??
> >
> > Jeff
>
> IBM Support is great. I had a laptop go down a few years back. Called
> support. Talked with an INTELLIGENT person who acted like he gave a
> shit about what was happening. Next day a FedEx box shows up at my door
> to package the laptop & ship.
Was it under warranty? If so, and by "go down" you mean hardware failure,
then all support was doing was exercising IBM's obliations under its
warranty agreement. I guess they could have acted like they didn't care,
but how hard is it to send a box to an address? Maybe they spent a lot of
time with you troubleshooting, I'm not sure. I find support on the whole
to be polite, meaning to do well, but inconsistent and sometimes downright
incompetent or uninformed. Here's some examples of what I'm talking about,
based on 4 calls to support last week alone:
- call up IBM support to discuss the problem with my thinkpad not being able
to play cds/dvds. The guy takes down the information, determines I have a
defective combo drive and gives me a case #. After the new combo drive
arrives days later and yet still doesn't resolve the problem, I call IBM
support back. This time, the customer rep can't find my previous case # in
the system. So, he asks for my name and phone number but he can't find my
case history with that either (which is incredible given the number of times
i've called and they've been able to pull up the records with just the name
and phone number). The customer rep says he'll have to enter in all my
customer information (i.e. address, name, phone #, etc.) again, even though
their database has case history from my lemon of a thinkpad dating back to
last year, maybe dozens of entries. when i suggest he look up my case
history using my serial number he says ok, and i give it to him. he finds
it. whoopie. So then, this rep starts asking me to describe the problem
all over again - which I do, painfully. Along the way, he asks me for my
serial # and model. I tell him I just gave him the serial number. He says
"you did?", and I say, yes, that's how you found my information, remember?
"Oh, oh - sorry about that, heh, heh". He determines that because the
combo drive (the new one) won't work, it has something to do with IBM DLA
software, and asks me to remove it. <sigh> I remind him how it took me
forever to get DLA, Record Now, and several other applications loaded on my
Thinkpad because EZ-Serve reimaged the hard disk with the wrong disk image
during the last trip to Memphis for service (on an unrelated problem). He
states that there is no other recourse, so I close my eyes and remove it.
Reboot and still no cds/DVDs play in the combo drive. Finally, he
"determines" that the OS is corrupted and I need to apply the recovery
disks - which, thankfully I had IBM ship out to me, as EZServe never put the
<f11> recovery partition on the hard drive. I have to hang up with him so I
can get the disks. Anyway, the bootable recovery cd can't be read from the
combo drive (it just spins and the cursor just blinks). I call back to IBM
support to report this status and I get another rep, who *again* can't find
my records for 15 minutes, then *again* has me describe the problem. Ugh!
After explaining my frustration at the whole process, she agrees that I
should talk to a supervisor or *somebody*, *anybody* in a higher capacity.
Suddenly, I'm on hold and she's hunting down her super. She comes back,
explains that he is not available to discuss the problem with me and that
he's escalated the issue and somebody should call me in 24-48 hours. I ask
to speak to customer service (it is about 9pm eastern time). She says sure,
and instructs me to "press 1" when she transfers me over. I get over to
customer service, and option #1 is if you know the extension of the person
you want to talk to. Option 2 is to "leave a message because, we're
closed". It just gets worse, and worse. 48 hours have passed and I still
have a dead machine that cannot boot at all because, suddenly, it comes up
with a blue screen with "Inaccessible_Boot_Device" on it.
This is IBM? Unbelievable. I'm not saying I think they're products are
bad, as a matter of fact, I *still*, even after what I've been through,
think the A30p is a nice machine (when it worked). But I'm starting to
wonder what the workers in that IBM Mexico plant were doing on the day they
built mine.
La Bomba Subwoofa
"Bruce Markowitz" <sco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3d1e5ea9...@news-server.optonline.net...
> At least they take it in and fix it. Good luck getting Sony to fix
> anything
I'm not making a comparison between the two. Sony sux, period. I thought
IBM was supposed to be better. A lot better. Doesn't look that way to me.
La Bomba Subwoofa
"La Bomba Subwoofa" <usenet_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OktT8.12031$ry2....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Oh, almost forgot my favorite line from IBM support whenever they think you
might have a bad hard drive:
IBM: Run the drive fitness test
Me: But the drive fitness test requires a floppy drive and the A30p doesn't
have one
IBM: Actually, sir, it is an option
Me: Yes, I know, but I didn't get that *option*.
IBM: Ok, do you have a another IBM floppy disk?
Me: Uh, no.
IBM: You must have a floppy disk to run the drive fitness test
Me: I heard you say that the first time. Again, my A30p didn't come with a
floppy drive
IBM: You'll have to take it to a IBM certified repair center.
Me: Where's that?
IBM: In the town blah blah blah
Me: That's about 45 minutes away, and I'd really rather not go to the
trouble for this test
IBM: Or, you can send it to us (EZServe).
It would be funny if it weren't so sad. Long story short, after pressing
the phone against the laptop so the moron at the other end could hear the
**KNOCK** **KNOCK** **I'M ABOUT TO FAIL-KNOCK** sounds, did they agree to
replace it. The unit still ended up getting sent to Memphis-EZ-Serve, got
the new hard drive but the wrong disk image (after holding up sending the
unit back to me for over 9 days so they could *find* the "right" disk)
Carygee
Bob Kos
>
> Was this a unit you bought from IBM Direct or another retailer?
I bought it from a retailer.