IBM T & R series comparison
Jeff Pearson
I've had and A20P, and currently an A21P. Woderful machine, but I'm tired of
the size and weight. Thinking about the T or R series, but having a bit of a
time distinguishing between them. Model for model, which is the better? Is
one series of a better build? Value?
I'm looking for a machine for graphics design, web work, and all of the
usual office stuff. Bells and whistles aren't a big deal, but like a solid,
swift machine.
Any opinions out there?
Thanks.
Jeff
dogwind
agree is a fine machine. I believe all ThinkPads are well respected
overall, but the T series are marketed and sold as functional, no-nonsense and high
quality business machines. To me the T30's best qualities are:
1. Build quality and construction (inside and out). The T30 definitely is
designed to be a mobile machine - it just feels more durable than even my
Dell Latitude which I use at work - although I also think the Dell is a fine
machine. If a Dell Latitude was a Honda Accord, the IBM ThinkPad T30
would be a BMW 5-series - both are nice cars, but the BMW owner knows his
is designed and built just a little bit better than the Honda. I expect for this reason there are many road warrior type people
out there who won't even consider anything other than a ThinkPad. Much the
same with cars.
2. IBM service / support. I bought an extended onsite warranty as
insurance, but I will be surprised if ever need use it.
The biggest negative is probably price/value. You pay more for T-series,
and IBM typically does not offer ThinkPads with bleeding edge components
as the other makers sometimes do. I believe this is a credit to IBM's
focus on quality and the design and testing that goes into the machines
before they are made available to the buying public. The R-series I believe are more value priced and
targeted for more the average user. I didn't consider an R-series because
at the time they didn't offer anything other than XGA screen resolution.
I also believe the speed of any laptop these days is more a function of
the amount of memory you have and (some say) the speed of the hard drive.
So I purchased the faster hd (5400 RPM) and an extra 512 MB stick of RAM. I am
extremely happy with my choice. Other than price, my other negative would
be IBM's use of a WinModem in the machine, but this is only because I use Linux.
Jeff Pearson
Regarding memory, I think I'll start at 512, that's what I have now, and
consider it a minimum.
I'm starting to get the impression after googling around a bit that the R
series is a budget T series of sorts.
Interesting that you mention Linux. Just as an aside, I'm starting to toy
with it a bit. I have a desktop that I've got a copy of Mandrake on, and a
I5000 laptop that I'm running a version of RH8 on. I've been elected to
serve on a board for my kids school to setup a computer lab, and Linux
certainly seems attractive. Only problem I'm having is that none of the
other committee members are willing to even listen. It's unfortunate because
I've been looking at a LTSP project that could be the silver bullet for a
lab full of computers for gradeschool kids. I could setup a diskless
workstation for a couple of hundred bucks on 30 desks, pop for a nice fast
server running the terminal server, boot the clients off the server and go
to town. I could do it for 30% of a comparable mainstream solution. But, FUD
seems to prevail. Shame.
Got a little off topic there... Thanks.
Jeff
"dogwind" <fa...@email.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.02.25....@email.com...
Matt O'Toole
"Jeff Pearson" <je...@calsierra.net> wrote in message
news:hgB6a.225675$iG3.27019@sccrnsc02...
> Regarding memory, I think I'll start at 512, that's what I
have now, and
> consider it a minimum.
> I'm starting to get the impression after googling around a
bit that the R
> series is a budget T series of sorts.
You are correct. To my knowledge, the differences are
these --
The T has a metal framed lid with sturdy hinges that don't
get floppy, while the R has a plastic lid that tends to get
floppy with heavy use (like a Dell). The T has serial and
parallel ports, the R doesn't. The T has a tiny port/socket
in the top of the lid for a proprietary IBM webcam, the R
doesn't. While performance for similar spec is the same,
the hardware isn't identical -- the R has a different modem,
ethernet card, etc. -- it's a cheaper board. It shouldn't
be a problem, unless you run Linux. The T is pretty much
fully compatible, while the R is a big question mark, so
beware if this is important to you. Finally, and this is
what accounts for the major difference in price, the T has a
3 year warranty, the R 1 year.
> Interesting that you mention Linux. Just as an aside, I'm
starting to toy
> with it a bit. I have a desktop that I've got a copy of
Mandrake on, and a
> I5000 laptop that I'm running a version of RH8 on. I've
been elected to
> serve on a board for my kids school to setup a computer
lab, and Linux
> certainly seems attractive. Only problem I'm having is
that none of the
> other committee members are willing to even listen. It's
unfortunate because
> I've been looking at a LTSP project that could be the
silver bullet for a
> lab full of computers for gradeschool kids. I could setup
a diskless
> workstation for a couple of hundred bucks on 30 desks, pop
for a nice fast
> server running the terminal server, boot the clients off
the server and go
> to town. I could do it for 30% of a comparable mainstream
solution. But, FUD
> seems to prevail. Shame.
>
> Got a little off topic there...
Not really. If you're a Linux user, you may want to
investigate the R a little further -- the T may be a better
machine for you. The state of this changes all the time,
but there are quite a few Linux laptop sites that keep up
with it.
For the average user, an R is a really good deal, but not
for everyone. Either way, you're better off buying a
machine with a few less Mhz but as many of the other things
you really want -- a CDRW, etc. Loading the thing up with
RAM will do much more for performance anyway, and 512MB is
enough for just about anyone.
VS. a Dell? No question, compared to the T, any Dell feels
like a piece of junk. IBM's keyboard is head and shoulders
over all. The only thing Dell has going for it is a big,
nice screen, but if I needed that I'd probably buy a
Powerbook.
Finally, you can get some good deals from IBM itself on
ebay -- check under user name "ibm." It's really them, full
warranty and everything.
Matt O.
Nick C
I know this isn't a technical reason, but the main differences are in
overall cost of parts. The R series are cheaper to manufacturer. More of
an all-in-one approach. Not to say this doesn't work, but they're targeted
for college students, etc.
The T series have more features and are in most ways tougher notebooks.
They have better performing parts, etc.
This is a case where buyer beware. The R series may be a good value, but
the video on the R series is not comparable to the T series (the newer T's
anyway. The older T's were S3 video - very bad.)
For example, a R40 and T30 are two good laptops. But you'll pay for that.
The parts are (generally) more reliable and geared for everyday (business
use) on the T-series. The R is more cost effective. I'm sure the ROR (rate
of return) is higher on the R series due to the parts used.
So, the real question is how long to do plan to use it (daily, weekly, etc.)
Are you going to travel? Is this an "investment" for you? Is this a
business expense? (etc.) Obviouisly, if you're looking for the best IBM
notebook, I think the T30 is the best portable. The A series is more of a
desktop replacement and thus heavier, etc.
If you're really tired of the weight, then look into a used or refurb X24
Thinkpad. IBM sells them on Ebay for about $1100 or thereabouts. You'll
need the X-series slice (dock) - $99 used or $199 new. But, if you don't
mind having the lack of a built-in CDROM/DVD and/or floppy, then you'll like
its size and weight. It's not flashy (in the graphics dept) but it should
suffice for most design work. (A great office mate. It's only 3.5 lbs. Get
it with wi-fi and you'll be happy. They are even some X24 models with IEEE
1394 and most if not all come with a compact-flash slot built-in. Battery
lasts about 3.5 hours on most models.)
My T30 battery lasts about 90-100 minutes - but I used it on full power.
This can be changed. With power saving features enabled, I can get about
2-2.5 hours.
Good luck.
(PS. I keep pointing people to cnet.com for their reviews. It's a great
place to start your search...)
-Nick
"Jeff Pearson" <je...@calsierra.net> wrote in message
news:Iaz6a.250031$be.228977@rwcrnsc53...
Matt O'Toole
> Regarding memory, I think I'll start at 512, that's what I
have now, and
> consider it a minimum.
> I'm starting to get the impression after googling around a
bit that the R
> series is a budget T series of sorts.
You are correct. To my knowledge, the differences are
these --
The T has a metal framed lid with sturdy hinges that don't
get floppy, while the R has a plastic lid that tends to get
floppy with heavy use (like a Dell). The T has serial and
parallel ports, the R doesn't. The T has a tiny port/socket
in the top of the lid for a proprietary IBM webcam, the R
doesn't. While performance for similar spec is the same,
the hardware isn't identical -- the R has a different modem,
ethernet card, etc. -- it's a cheaper board. It shouldn't
be a problem, unless you run Linux. The T is pretty much
fully compatible, while the R is a big question mark, so
beware if this is important to you. Finally, and this is
what accounts for the major difference in price, the T has a
3 year warranty, the R 1 year.
> Interesting that you mention Linux. Just as an aside, I'm
starting to toy
> with it a bit. I have a desktop that I've got a copy of
Mandrake on, and a
> I5000 laptop that I'm running a version of RH8 on. I've
been elected to
> serve on a board for my kids school to setup a computer
lab, and Linux
> certainly seems attractive. Only problem I'm having is
that none of the
> other committee members are willing to even listen. It's
unfortunate because
> I've been looking at a LTSP project that could be the
silver bullet for a
> lab full of computers for gradeschool kids. I could setup
a diskless
> workstation for a couple of hundred bucks on 30 desks, pop
for a nice fast
> server running the terminal server, boot the clients off
the server and go
> to town. I could do it for 30% of a comparable mainstream
solution. But, FUD
> seems to prevail. Shame.
>
> Got a little off topic there...
Not really. If you're a Linux user, you may want to
lcopps
sold me since my Prostar screen housing broke 3 times over 4 years. The
graphics card may be somewhat weak for intense graphics applications.
The Radion 7500 only has 16MB on board. Rather anemic. However, for what
I use it for its just fine. I would get the High resolution screen. Its
really sharp, easy to read, and if you code like me allows you to
display many lines at one time. Overall I am really pleased with this unit.
I am also interested in installing Linux. Do you have it installed on
the main drive? Or do you swap the HDD? Or have you installed it on a
drive that slides into the Ultra bay? I am interested in buying an
extra drive and an adapter for the Ultra bay, then booting it off that
drive.
Jeff Pearson
IBM machine.
Jeff
"lcopps" <l...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3E5B230C...@nospam.com...
Matt O'Toole
"Nick C" <cni...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:0wC6a.4169$qh.2...@news.uswest.net...
> The older T's were S3 video - very bad.)
Would you please elaborate on this?
Matt O.
Nick C
for everything else. I wouldn't try DVD's or games, etc. In fact, I'm not
even sure if the IBM driver has OpenGL support for games.
It's okay strictly in the business sense. Otherwise, stay away.
Interestingly, all of the X-series laptops have ATI Radeon chipsets, so if
you're looking for an X20 or X21 - go for it. I highly recommend them. The
X24 has the P3 1Ghz CPU - and with wi-fi it's a great steal.
"Matt O'Toole" <ma...@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:C7S6a.20298$0L3.8...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
Nick C
doesn't work. Just do a google.com search for +T30 +linux and you'll find
all the info you need.
"lcopps" <l...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3E5B230C...@nospam.com...
Matt O'Toole
> The video was acceptable for basic office stuff (excel,
etc.) but it sucks
> for everything else. I wouldn't try DVD's or games, etc.
In fact, I'm not
> even sure if the IBM driver has OpenGL support for games.
>
> It's okay strictly in the business sense. Otherwise, stay
away.
Well, some of us actually use our computers to do work,
which for me involves a lot of image processing and
programming. Many of us don't play games at all. And my
T20 plays DVDs just fine.
Matt O.
Baseman
T30 for the following reasons:
1) IBM support/service reputation. I wouldn't even consider going with
Compaq/Sony/Fujitsu. Dell was a little pricey suprisingly.
2) Quality - all searches I've done point to IBM as having the best quality
hands-down.
3) Titanium case - I like the heavy-duty feel
4) User replaceability - compartments for upgrading the memory, WiFi card,
and HD are all easily accessible.
5) Dual pointing options - the T30 has BOTH the trackpoint (eraserhead) and
the trackpad built in. The R-series only has the trackpoint.
6) Price - Yes, Price... PCConnection just reduced a T30/1.8GB
P4/40GB/256MB/DVD/56K to $1499. I added 256MB more, plus the WiFi card, and
the UltraBay extra battery and still came in under $2k. BTW- i get a good
4.5~5 hours with the second battery.
I'm very happy with this machine.
"Jeff Pearson" <je...@calsierra.net> wrote in message
news:Iaz6a.250031$be.228977@rwcrnsc53...
Mike Chang
DVD software. As for games, 8MB video memory on the S3 Savage is
adequate for older 3D games.
Mike
"Nick C" <cni...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3OS6a.553$L94....@news.uswest.net>...
mankow
here:
http://home.attbi.com/~golfball/RHinstall.html
Bill Morrow at thinkpads.com has suggested Linux Thinkpad users put
together linux cd's for specific thinkpad models and sell them off of his
website. I may try to be the first to do that.
lcopps
Bruce Markowitz
games (even the new Duke Nukem Does Manhattan)
Does not do Wolfenstein, because it is only 8MB video. The T23 with
the 16MB Savage does it great
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:45:27 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <ma...@deltanet.com>
wrote:
Dennis
when they said:
>
>"Jeff Pearson" <je...@calsierra.net> wrote in message
>news:hgB6a.225675$iG3.27019@sccrnsc02...
>
>> Regarding memory, I think I'll start at 512, that's what I
>have now, and
>> consider it a minimum.
>> I'm starting to get the impression after googling around a
>bit that the R
>> series is a budget T series of sorts.
>
>You are correct. To my knowledge, the differences are
>these --
>
>The T has a metal framed lid with sturdy hinges that don't
>get floppy, while the R has a plastic lid that tends to get
>floppy with heavy use (like a Dell). The T has serial and
>parallel ports, the R doesn't.
looking at the back of my R31.... parallel but no serial, I also have
intergarted ethernet and Wireless.
The T has a tiny port/socket
>in the top of the lid for a proprietary IBM webcam, the R
>doesn't. While performance for similar spec is the same,
>the hardware isn't identical -- the R has a different modem,
>ethernet card, etc. -- it's a cheaper board. It shouldn't
>be a problem, unless you run Linux. The T is pretty much
>fully compatible, while the R is a big question mark, so
>beware if this is important to you. Finally, and this is
>what accounts for the major difference in price, the T has a
>3 year warranty, the R 1 year.
>
anothewr difference is I believe the T's are built in the USA R's are
built in the phillipines.
as far as cost... check out the authorized Auctions on E-bay... yes
they are new and yes you are buying direct from IBM...
I got my r-31 for about 1,000 USD the Identical model retailed for
abot 1800...
"education is the progressive discovery of our own ignorance" --Will Durant
"people who read the tabloids deserve to be lied to " Jerry Seinfeld
"One day we will get it right and the world will be one great big love-fest
and the only wars willbe fought over who has to sleep in the wet-spot" me :-)
Unknown
wrote:
>>
>anothewr difference is I believe the T's are built in the USA R's are
>built in the phillipines.
>
My T was shipped from Mexico, so I seriously doubt it was made in the
USA
Krathor
Użytkownik "Nick C" <cni...@qwest.net> napisał w wiadomości
news:3OS6a.553$L94....@news.uswest.net...
> The video was acceptable for basic office stuff (excel, etc.) but it
sucks
> for everything else. I wouldn't try DVD's or games, etc. In fact, I'm
not
> even sure if the IBM driver has OpenGL support for games.
>
> It's okay strictly in the business sense. Otherwise, stay away.
is that I don't play latest games but have no problem with the ones I tried.
Krathor
Bruce Markowitz
Shiranui Gen-An
"Baseman" <nospam_pr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rj57a.73064$4F3.6...@news2.east.cox.net...
> I just got through a research/puchase excercise and wound up selecting the
> T30 for the following reasons:
>
> 1) IBM support/service reputation. I wouldn't even consider going with
> Compaq/Sony/Fujitsu. Dell was a little pricey suprisingly.
>
> 2) Quality - all searches I've done point to IBM as having the best
quality
> hands-down.
>
> 3) Titanium case - I like the heavy-duty feel
>
> 4) User replaceability - compartments for upgrading the memory, WiFi card,
> and HD are all easily accessible.
>
> 5) Dual pointing options - the T30 has BOTH the trackpoint (eraserhead)
and
> the trackpad built in. The R-series only has the trackpoint.
This has changed as the new R40s have dual pointing options. IBM now has an
R40 with a 15" SXGA+ screen that sounds really nice.
FulanoDeTal
Can anyone confirm?
Bruce Markowitz
Acer in TAiwan