Mac portable runs MSDOS software?
Brian L. Kahn
I just saw an ad on TV for the Mac portable. Powerbook? Anyway, the
ad claimed it would run MSDOS software. That's news to me. I thought
that Macs couldn't even read DOS disks! Can all Macs, or all
superdrive Macs, read DOS disks?
Anyone know what they mean by "run DOS programs"? Are they referring
to a DOS emulation package, the kind that runs well-behaved DOS
programs (both of them ;-) that don't write directly to screen? Or do
they have some hardware support?
The lower end powerbooks just have a 68000, and I can't believe they
run any DOS progs that write direct to screen. Maybe the high end
68030 (with MMU), or do they even have some specialized hardware
support?
--
B< Brian Kahn b...@security.mitre.org "may the farce be with you"
Dwight McKay
writes:
|>I just saw an ad on TV for the Mac portable. Powerbook? Anyway, the
|>ad claimed it would run MSDOS software. That's news to me. I thought
|>that Macs couldn't even read DOS disks! Can all Macs, or all
|>superdrive Macs, read DOS disks?
|>
|>Anyone know what they mean by "run DOS programs"? Are they referring
|>to a DOS emulation package, the kind that runs well-behaved DOS
|>programs (both of them ;-) that don't write directly to screen? Or do
|>they have some hardware support?
All Macs with superdrives have been able read and write MS-DOS floppies
for a couple years now.
When they say, "run DOS programs" they mean two things: 1) Mac versions
of DOS programs like the recently announced Lotus 1-2-3 and 2) programs
run under a DOS emulator, probably Insignia Solutions, SoftPC.
Emulating something as simple as a PC doesn't appear to be all that hard.
I used SoftPC for a while when it first became available and was surprised
at the large number of programs, even games, which ran fine in the emulator.
Current versions of SoftPC are supposed to be even better or so the folks
I know who use it regularly say...
--Dwight D. McKay, Purdue University, Department of Biological Sciences
--Office: LILY B-145, Phone: (317) 494-4481
--mc...@gimli.bio.purdue.edu
Jim De Arras
writes:
>
>I just saw an ad on TV for the Mac portable. Powerbook? Anyway, the
>ad claimed it would run MSDOS software. That's news to me. I thought
>that Macs couldn't even read DOS disks! Can all Macs, or all
>superdrive Macs, read DOS disks?
>
Superdrive Macs can read DOS disks. A Mac can format a DOS disk faster than
any PC in house!
>Anyone know what they mean by "run DOS programs"? Are they referring
>to a DOS emulation package, the kind that runs well-behaved DOS
>programs (both of them ;-) that don't write directly to screen? Or do
>they have some hardware support?
>
They use SoftPC, which has a 4:1 clock rate running DOS, on average. A 16 Mhz
MAC can fully emulate a 4 Mhz PC. Direct screen writes included. Comm ports
and all. 80x87 coprocessor emulation if the Mac has an MMU. My old faded copy
of Crosstalk works just fine under SoftPC. Direct screen access programs DO
slow it down, Windows will run, but you get tired of waiting on a low end Mac.
(funny, I get tired of waiting for windows on any platform ;-) ).
>The lower end powerbooks just have a 68000, and I can't believe they
>run any DOS progs that write direct to screen. Maybe the high end
>68030 (with MMU), or do they even have some specialized hardware
>support?
>
All models of MAC can run SoftPC. The faster the Mac, the faster the emulated
PC. My IIfx get an SI of 8 or so. My NeXT, running a 25 Mhz 68040, gets an SI
of 12-14, so I'd expect about the same from the new high end Macs.
>
>--
>B< Brian Kahn b...@security.mitre.org "may the farce be with you"
>
>
Jim De Arras
Mac and NeXT registered developer.
James Bryant Uther
|>
|> I just saw an ad on TV for the Mac portable. Powerbook? Anyway, the
|> ad claimed it would run MSDOS software. That's news to me. I thought
|> that Macs couldn't even read DOS disks! Can all Macs, or all
|> superdrive Macs, read DOS disks?
|>
|> Anyone know what they mean by "run DOS programs"? Are they referring
|> to a DOS emulation package, the kind that runs well-behaved DOS
|> programs (both of them ;-) that don't write directly to screen? Or do
|> they have some hardware support?
|> The lower end powerbooks just have a 68000, and I can't believe they
|> run any DOS progs that write direct to screen. Maybe the high end
|> 68030 (with MMU), or do they even have some specialized hardware
|> support?
its all a matter of speed.. 68000's get slow when trying to be a X86
as well.
jamus.
Aaron Wallace
> its all a matter of speed.. 68000's get slow when trying to be a X86
> as well.
So do 030's. Well, I didn't try the fx here, but on the ci Soft PC/AT was
pretty much useless. For fun, try to install Windows under it. But be
careful, the 286 emulation is incomplete--once HIMEM tries to load, you'll
get a bomb stating that protected mode isn't supported and such. Which isn't
a problem, since it runs Windows at about half the speed of an XT. I mean, you
can see it draw the buttons scan-line by scan-line. Same is true for the
pointer.
For character based apps it's slightly less useless, but if you have a Mac
you're probably not too interested in those anyway (right?). I guess the
$64K question is, why are the first words of the Powerbook "we borrowed
the advertising firm Librex uses" ads "It runs MS-DOS software"? Then
they go on to mention Mac apps and such... I mean, anyone interested in
running DOS apps portably would do better with a $500 1000SX; I'm sure it's
much faster overall than Soft PC on these things.
Anyway, I figured out the second thing Apple and IBM have in common--both
were the last companies on earth to release notebook computers. (The first
is they both hate Bill Gates...)
Aaron Wallace
RB (Ron) Melton
I don't believe is runs ms-dos software, but it can read high density dos
formatted disks in the FDHD floppy. You can get soft-pc for the mac if
you want to run ms-dos programs. I have used it on an original mac portable.
It was about the speed of an original pc. On the 170 I expect it would
be a great deal faster.
Ron Melton
rb_m...@pnl.gov
Jordan B Pollack
all three models and did not find any mention of using an external
monitor or VGA compatible LCD panel. Since one of the great uses of a
portable is for presentations, this would seem to be an oversight.
Will eternal displays require some other peripheral on the external bus?
Does anyone know When and How much such a gizmo will arrive and cost?
--
Jordan Pollack Assistant Professor
CIS Dept/OSU Laboratory for AI Research
2036 Neil Ave Email: pol...@cis.ohio-state.edu
Columbus, OH 43210 Phone: (614)292-4890 (then * to fax)
Aaron Wallace
>I looked at the powerbook 100 recently and the PR documentation for
>all three models and did not find any mention of using an external
>monitor or VGA compatible LCD panel. Since one of the great uses of a
>portable is for presentations, this would seem to be an oversight.
Indeed this is the case. There will be devices that work through the SCSI
port, but they'll be in the $200-400 range and will be a bit slow. I think
Radius is working on one. (The price quote is from memory...)
For that matter, does anyone know how many shades of gray the Powerbooks
produce? I can't find word one of it in any flyers about the machine.
'Twoud be a great shame if, in this age of VGAs with 32 shades of gray,
Apple went the 640x400x1 (I think it's called double-scan CGA) route
to save a few clams instead. This might be why there's no provision for
external VGA-type hookups...
Aaron Wallace
Juri Munkki
>Indeed this is the case. There will be devices that work through the SCSI
>port, but they'll be in the $200-400 range and will be a bit slow. I think
>Radius is working on one. (The price quote is from memory...)
There are also cards that install in the memory expansion slot. One of
them has 4MB of RAM, 2MB of video RAM and it provides 256 colors on a
13" color monitor (VGA is supported). A B&W version is available for
the PB100. The video+memory boards cost about $700 from LifeTime Memory
Products.
>For that matter, does anyone know how many shades of gray the Powerbooks
>produce? I can't find word one of it in any flyers about the machine.
>'Twoud be a great shame if, in this age of VGAs with 32 shades of gray,
>Apple went the 640x400x1 (I think it's called double-scan CGA) route
>to save a few clams instead. This might be why there's no provision for
>external VGA-type hookups...
The PowerBooks have 1-bit displays. It is a shame, but that's just the
way it is. Even with a 1-bit display, the PowerBooks are quite
useable. 32 bit color quickdraw provides fast high-quality error
distribution dithering for grayscale and color images.
If you connect a SCSI display adapter or a RAM-slot video adapter to
a PowerBook, you will have two working displays. You use the monitors
control panel to tell the computer how the screens are located and
what screen depth you want to use on the external monitor.
____________________________________________________________________________
/ Juri Munkki / Helsinki University of Technology / Wind / Project /
/ jmu...@hut.fi / Computing Center Macintosh Support / Surf / ##### /
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