POWER PC
GRUBB
>> I've just read in the latest PCWEEK that the "low end" POWER PC
>>will be running at 80MHz rather than the 66MHz which was first stated.
>>I've also been told that this new machine will run Mac, Unix and PC
>>software - look out intel ... the bell tolls for you.
>So, the first question is "how well will the box in question run DOS
>software, given various OSes?", as I suspect most of the general-purpose
>computers that have x86 Inside(TM) are primarily used to run DOS or
>Microsoft Windows software. I.e., some questions to ask are:
Good point. Answers are from my Mac & IBM info sheet. {On sumex
as mac-ibm.campare[version #].txt
> Which OSes will let it run DOS software? (Presumably all of
> them, if the OS vendors have any clue as to the amount of DOS
> software that's out there.)
PowerOpen
Solaris OS
Windows NT
WorkPlace OS {OS/2 for PPC}
> Which OSes will let it run Microsoft Windows software? (Dunno.
> They could license Wabi, or they could license whatever the
> thing is that Microsoft is coming out with; I was under the
> impression that DOS emulators can't run *all* MS Windows software,
> just stuff in standard mode or whatever mode it is that runs on
> a virtual 8086, or something such as that. However, given the
> amount of MS Windows software out there, they'd probably be wise to
> try to run it.)
Solaris OS, Solaris OS, and WorkPlace OS run windows programs.
> How fast will DOS or MS Windows software run on the box(es) in
> question under the OSes in question, relative to a PeeCee of
> running DOS or MS Windows of equivalent price ("price" here
> including the box *and* the OS)?
The price of the machines given INCLUDE an os of some type: $2000 - $3000.
The speed reports are erratic ranging from a fast 386dx to a medium range 486dx
> How much will *peripherals* for the box in question cost,
> relative to equivalent PeeCee peripherals. (Dunno - will the
> box have any PeeCee buses, or not?)
Here is some of the hardware in the IBM version: MicroChannel bus, XGA video.
So what every those things cost. QuickRing will also be in evidence {cost
unknown at this time}
> How much will the box, plus an OS capable of running DOS, MS
> Windows, *and* Mac applications cost, relative to a PeeCee plus
> MS Windows of equivalent cost? (The ability to run Mac
> applications plus PeeCee applications might, conceivably,
> attract additional interest. I suspect that, in the mass market,
> the ability to run UNIX applications won't weigh the proverbial
> two dead flies in the scales of Eternity....)
From the sheet:
PowerPC Rumors
IBM PowerPC: late 1993 (MacWeek 7/13/92; PC Week 3/15/93) {September or
October rumored}; ~$3000- MicroChannel bus, XGA video, 8 MB RAM, 200 MB
hard-drive (Computer Reseller News, 3/22/93). Will run native version AIX
and Mac apps (PC Week 3/15/93) and support DOS; no comments on Windows app
compatablity.
Apple PowerPC {Tesseract}: Jan 24, 1994; near LC line prices {~$2000, down
from ~$3000 projection (MacUser 9/92:146)}- MPC601/50 MHz, 4/8 MB RAM, a
2.8 MB floppy drive (MacWeek 3/22/93). The Centris 610 and 650, Mac IIvx
and IIvi, and Quadra 800 products are all planned to have PowerPC upgrades
(PC Week 5/10/93; Apple Computer).
If you are curious:
QuickRing: Apple's 64-bit peer-to-peer local bus - "architecture is
identical to that of the VL-Bus, since the high-speed PDS interconnect taps
directly into the CPU's signal lines and bypasses the slower NuBus control
logic." (Byte 10/92:128) Base through put: 350 MB/s (Byte 10/92:128);
supports up to 16 nodes each at 200 MB/s for a total of 3.2 GB/s (InfoWorld,
3/15/93 v15 n11 p1(2)). QuickRing planned to be compatable with present
NuBus and PDS systems. To be out 3rd Quarter, 1993.
Might show up in some IBM and PowerPC machines (Byte 10/92:132-133).
I agree UNIX presently is NOT a drawing card for software compatablity, though
the Mac might be.
Since Quickring does NOT care which CPU is there you MAY see it with Pentium
CPUs before the Power PC chips. {350 MB/s to 3.2 GB/s is too fast to ignore.}
The September/October rumor moves up the Pentium vs. race to a dead heat.
Curt Nichols tries too much to down play the competitors resulting in making
WRONG statements: "There is no compelling reason, no better price, no better
performance. They don't have the software base." (PC Week 05/24/93). The
PowerPC is INDEED at 1) a better price, 2) better performance {as far as the
fp goes}, and with Solaris, SYstem 7.x, Windows NT, and WorkPlace OS coming
will have 3) the software base.
SO much for over broad statements.
Doug Holtsinger
bgr...@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:
> Curt Nichols tries too much to down play the competitors resulting in making
> WRONG statements: "There is no compelling reason, no better price, no better
> performance. They don't have the software base." (PC Week 05/24/93). The
> PowerPC is INDEED at 1) a better price, 2) better performance {as far as the
> fp goes}, and with Solaris, SYstem 7.x, Windows NT, and WorkPlace OS coming
> will have 3) the software base.
> SO much for over broad statements.
I don't understand why you're comparing announced PowerPC products
with Intel Pentium boxes which are available now. One of the PowerPC
products you mentioned had a shipping date for next year! By that
time, prices for Intel Pentium boxes will have dropped, and Intel
could start shipping their next processor.
Doug Holtsinger
Mark Rogowsky
The Pentium is slated to ship 10,000 total units in 1993. By the time it's
really shipping, the PowerPC will be shipping -- in volume. By the end of
1994, total shipments of machines based on PowerPC will be virtually equal
to those based on Pentium (a prediction based on projections of Intel and
Apple/IBM).
Mark
GRUBB
>The Pentium is slated to ship 10,000 total units in 1993. By the time it's
Sorry Mark but this is for second QUARTER; the TOTAL production for 1993
will be 100,000 (PC Week 5/24/93). No one company will have more than
8,000 chips.
>really shipping, the PowerPC will be shipping -- in volume. By the end of
>1994, total shipments of machines based on PowerPC will be virtually equal
>to those based on Pentium (a prediction based on projections of Intel and
>Apple/IBM).
Yep and PC Week 5/24/93 gave some of the details
The 80 MHz PowerPC that resulted from the work of Motorola/IBM on the
MPC610/66 also gives an edge. Here is the PowerPC time table along
with some other info:
PowerPC ALU Registers External bus CPU Features/
CPU data address cache Notes
MPC601 32 int 32 64 32 32K 66 MHz: SPECint92: 50;
[98601] fp 64 combined SPECfp92: 80. 6.5 {50 MHz} -
I/D 9 {66 MHz} watts*
MPC603: low power MPC601 for desktop & portable systems. Out by end of 1993.
[603]
MPC604: high performance MPC601 for high end machines. Out by 1st Q 1994.
[604]
MPC620 64 64 64 64 32K Out by mid 1994.
[620] combined
I/D
*(PC Week 04/12/93; PC Mag 4/27/93:138) The SPECint92: 60 (MacWeek 4/26/93)
was a typo. Old name MC98601. Some NuBus boards containing early samples of
PowerPC 601 were given to Apple's "A-list" developers (PC Week 12/7/92;
MacWeek 12/14/92), and select venders were sent sample MPC601 chips by
Motorola (PC Week 2/08/93). MPC601/50 MHz-$280; MPC601/66 MHz-$374 (PC Week
4/12/93). A MPC601/80 MHz was used in a PowerPC Mac prototype (MacWeek
5/10/93). Rumor-there are plans to produce MPC601/80 chips in several months
(MacWeek 5/17/93). Systems: see Hardware, PowerPC rumors.
PowerPC Rumors
IBM PowerPC: fall {September or October rumored} 1993 (PC Week 5/24/93);
~$3000- MicroChannel bus, XGA video, 8 MB RAM, 200 MB hard-drive (Computer
Reseller News, 3/22/93). Will run native version AIX and Mac apps (PC Week
3/15/93) and support DOS; no comments on Windows app compatablity.
Apple PowerPC {Tesseract}: Jan 24, 1994; near LC line prices {~$2000, down
from ~$3000 projection (MacUser 9/92:146)}- MPC601/50 MHz, 4/8 MB RAM, a
2.8 MB floppy drive (MacWeek 3/22/93). The Centris 610 and 650, Mac IIvx
and IIvi, and Quadra 800 products are all planned to have PowerPC upgrades
(PC Week 5/10/93; Apple Computer).
So Mark was almost right about the number Pentium machines out before the
PowerPC machines begin shipping. Depending on when the IBM PowerPC is
out there will be only 10,000 to 50,000 Pentium machines with most of
them in the $4000 price range.
