Let's do something about Microsoft
think_tank
highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
newsgroups.
We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
or rec.gardens.roses.
Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
about your .sig.
They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
Billyboy.
The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
less. It will take some uhh .. propaganda to get the word out.
Any other ideas?
Jeremy Bee
> less. It will take some uhh.. propaganda to get the word out.
> Any other ideas?
Ever noitice how those people that are most concerned about the Microsoft
"conspiracy" are those most willing to start their own conspiracy.
Perhaps one can only spy the same motives in others that one knows exists
within ones self.
Jeremy
--
=====================================================================
Dave Shuman
> Ever noitice how those people that are most concerned about the Microsoft
> "conspiracy" are those most willing to start their own conspiracy.
> Perhaps one can only spy the same motives in others that one knows exists
> within ones self.
I was really curious which of the M$ newsbots would get here first!!! <G>
So in *your* opinion only M$ is allowed to be a conspirator?? Or is it
your controller speaking through you?? I hope nobody takes this
conspiracy stuff *too* seriously, but it sure is amusing to see the
M$ newsbots pop out of the woodwork with NO sense of humor!!!!!
Dave S. Date: 15.06.95 , Time: 15:00:09 "If you think there
are no new frontiers, watch a boy ring the front doorbell on his
first date." - Olin Miller
------
Martin Nisshagen
>Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
>highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
>They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
>on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
>newsgroups.
>We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
>First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
>Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
>page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
>Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
>sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
>Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
>or rec.gardens.roses.
>Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
>about your .sig.
>They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
>across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
>Billyboy.
>The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
>to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
>Any other ideas?
Yes. Get a job that You enjoy instead! Or go out enjoy the compamy
of some friends and have fun! Maybe You would feel better if You
find some meaningful hobby to fill out your time with! Go out and
date some pretty girls!
This would maybe enhance your life more instead of 'hateing' things.
Take care,
m a r t i n n
--
m...@cd.chalmers.se
http://www.cd.chalmers.se/~mts
mts @ IRC (on #MTS)
Xavier Messersmith
> Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
> highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
> They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
> on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
> newsgroups.
> We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
> First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
> Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
> page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
> Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
> sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
> Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
> or rec.gardens.roses.
> Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
> about your .sig.
> They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
> across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
> Billyboy.
> The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
> to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
> less. It will take some uhh .. propaganda to get the word out.
> Any other ideas?
Heres another idea, makes a bit more of an impact. Get a truck full of
jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
\|/ ImrcOsfo tUskc s ! (Subliminal enuff? :-)
@ @
*------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------*------------------------------*
| __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD |
| ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ | The Amiga Community Lives! |
| __ //// /\ / / /\ / / / \/ /\ | \ / *-----------*
| \\\//// __ \/ _ _ \/ / (_/\/ __ \ | X |Idle/\/\/\/|
| \XX/ \/ \/\/ \/ \/\/\____/\/ \/ | / Caliber |Brains\/\/\|
| | \ @wco.com|Malfunction|
*------------------------------------*------------------*-----------*
Tomorrow's technology ten years ago!
Xavier Messersmith
> Heres another idea, makes a bit more of an impact. Get a truck full of
> jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
> button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
In response to my response, to anyone who took/will take this literally,
DON'T! This is a joke and is not a serious threat to either the makers of
really dull software or the people who live around their headquarters. I
don't know how to get jet fuel, nor do I even know where their
headquarters are.
\|/ P.S. all flames will be deleted
Michael P. Gohlke
> On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Xavier Messersmith wrote:
> > Heres another idea, makes a bit more of an impact. Get a truck full of
> > jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
> > button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
>
> In response to my response, to anyone who took/will take this literally,
> DON'T! This is a joke and is not a serious threat to either the makers of
> really dull software or the people who live around their headquarters. I
> don't know how to get jet fuel, nor do I even know where their
> headquarters are.
Redmond, Washington. If you would like I can find out exactly where! :)
Rainald Menge
> The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
> to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
> less. It will take some uhh .. propaganda to get the word out.
> Any other ideas?
Well, I agree with you that M$ sucks. But I don't think there is a
way of telling all those lamers about it. I even tried convincing
my friends - but they believe in M$. I guess the strategy is to be
happy using Linux and OS/2 - and laugh about those lamers. I like
to flame them sometimes in the newsgroups - which will not change
anyones opinion - agreed - but which makes me feel better and gives
other M$-flamers a good laugh. A friend of mine is a complete lamer
(I like him - but he doesn't know anything about computers). He
recently bought a Pentium at ESCOM!!!! (The worst store in Germany)
with 8MB (good way to slow down a computer when using a real OS.
Of cause OS/2 is too slow when running some apps. He really believes
that win96 will be faster (hehehe). He really thinks that he won't
have any trouble when installing win96 - while he had with OS/2
because Escom gave him a defect install disk.
So you see - Bill Gates will earn more money - there is no way
to stop those lamers - but as long as users will continue using
Linux and OS/2 those reals OSs will be supported and we will
have nice products. Who needs all those win-trash software
anyway???
- Rainald
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Rainald Menge, Cologne | Some people believe in windows |
|me...@rrz.uni-koeln.de | They also believe that the earth is flat |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Radaelli A
We need a standard OS so that
we can easily share files and programs and, with the exception of IBM Unix
OS's, all the popular IBM OS's are MS compatible and because there is some
competition IBM's OS/2 and PC-DOS and Novell's DOS add functions that MS's
DOS and Windows don't have.
If this was 12 years ago, you'd be crying that you can't trade your Apple 2
programs with your friends because they use Atari's or Commodores.
At least no there's a standard for the majority of PC's and that's
MS DOS/Windows.
I agree that we need some kind of standard to share files and the like,
but here is the problem: we need an OS where such capabilities are build
in, because add-ins would not work: I can't trust a MS-DOS client (e.g.)
trying to fetch some file's from my computer's Hard disk
because I could never be sure that he is who he claims to be (the same is
true for a lot of OS's btw)!!!! But all right, if you mean sharing programs
by exchanging floppy's or cd-roms, you are right: MS-dos will suffice ;-)
Alessio
--
--
http:/www.cs.vu.nl/~aradael/
PD. Scotney
: On 15 Jun 1995 Think@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
8< SNIP!
: > The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
: > to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
: > less. It will take some uhh .. propaganda to get the word out.
: > Any other ideas?
: Heres another idea, makes a bit more of an impact. Get a truck full of
: jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
: button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
: \|/ ImrcOsfo tUskc s ! (Subliminal enuff? :-)
: @ @
: *------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------*------------------------------*
Now this reminds me of a famous musical!
What was it?
Its not "Annie Get Your Gun".
I think the title begins with the letter 'O'.
Are well, not everyone loves capitalism.
--
Last night my wife hoovered my head.
Rune Moberg
b...@sfu.ca (Jeremy Bee) wrote:
> In article <3rps76$e...@osiris.wu-wien.ac.at>, Think Tank wrote:
> Ever noitice how those people that are most concerned about the Microsoft
> "conspiracy" are those most willing to start their own conspiracy.
> Perhaps one can only spy the same motives in others that one knows exists
> within ones self.
I've noticed that IBM is probably much worse. They will not only sell you
one of their operating systems, but will also try to push 5-6 machines
on you as well. Then they'll promise you a new platform (incompatible with
their last architecture of course) and that they'll port their "popular"
operating system to that platform. Then they let you wait for approx.
one year, before they give up and release the hardware platform with only
a beta version of their operating system running! Oh btw, they'll let you
choose between that and an obscure UNIX clone. Luxury!
Stop the IBM conspiracy! Below is an example of a subliminal message.
Please spread!
=\
*=- R.Moberg, I *don't* use Wart, the overhyped operating system from IBM.
=/ Do *you*??? #<-$#-- Anti Wart zone! --#$->#
Paul Probus
>
>Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
>highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
>They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
>on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
>newsgroups.
Nope, however MS does put out some good S/W, no it's not perfect, but it's
good. Seems like you have an ax to grind with MS. I have to say that I've
bought software from smaller companies, and have been sorely disappointed.
Corel, for instance, didn't bother to send me my free Ventura 5.0 that I was
supposed to recieve once it was finished, when I upgraded from CorelDraw 3.0
to 5.0. I had to call them, they didn't even have me listed as a registered
user (yes I sent in the registration card _and_ the coupon for my free copy of
V 5.0). After giving them the serial number the salesman agreed to send it to
me (I got it a month and a half later). I posted a question to one of the MS
Windows newsgroups to see if anyone else got their copy of V 5.0, all did,
without having to do anything else. I also bought MathCAD 3.0 for Windows and
registered it. I never heard from Mathsoft until about 6 months after they
released MCAD 5.0! I bought and registered MS Word 2.0c, 6 months later 6.0
came out and MS mailed me an upgrade notice right after they released 6.0.
Corel and Mathsoft could learn a lesson from MS.
>We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
>First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
>Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
>page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
>Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
>sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
>Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
>or rec.gardens.roses.
>Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
>about your .sig.
>They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
>across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
>Billyboy.
>The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
>to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
>less. It will take some uhh .. propaganda to get the word out.
>Any other ideas?
Yeah, why don't you stick your head back up your ass.
You seem to think that only MS is greedy and monopolistic, and yes they are,
however, let's take a look at Apple. Apple is the only company that was
allowed to make Mac's for 11(?) years, just now they're starting to allow Mac
clones. Don't forget that Apple is the only company allowed to make an OS for
the Mac, aside from the freeware Linux for Mac. So who's more greedy? MS or
Apple? I'd say it was Apple, and Apple's gamble, thankfully, backfired,
that's not to say that I don't like Mac's, I just don't like the idea that one
computer company has the total monopoly on it. Just look to the competition
in the IBM compatible computer industry. No we don't have much competition in
the OS area, but I think that's good, in a way. We need a standard OS so that
we can easily share files and programs and, with the exception of IBM Unix
OS's, all the popular IBM OS's are MS compatible and because there is some
competition IBM's OS/2 and PC-DOS and Novell's DOS add functions that MS's
DOS and Windows don't have.
If this was 12 years ago, you'd be crying that you can't trade your Apple 2
programs with your friends because they use Atari's or Commodores. At least
no there's a standard for the majority of PC's and that's MS DOS/Windows.
Paul Probus
pro...@cnj.digex.net
Igor Chudov @ home
* Think Tank wrote:
* >Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
... snip ...
* >Any other ideas?
* Yes. Get a job that You enjoy instead! Or go out enjoy the compamy
* of some friends and have fun! Maybe You would feel better if You
* find some meaningful hobby to fill out your time with! Go out and
* date some pretty girls!
* m...@cd.chalmers.se
* http://www.cd.chalmers.se/~mts
* mts @ IRC (on #MTS)
Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot hate
microsoft? I run no Windoze or any other M$ sleazeware and am pretty
happy with my linux system. At least, it is secure and runs without
crashes for weeks.
Have phun,
--
- Igor. (My opinions only)
http://www.galstar.com/~ichudov/index.html <<----- CHANGED!!!
Joe Sloan
>They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
>on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
>newsgroups.
>First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
>Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
>page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
>Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
>sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
Fascinating idea - sort of "linux evangelists" - The linux cause is much
more attractive than microsofts, even though ms has the finances to take
out huge, slick ads in all the trade rags...
Who knows, maybe it will have an effect...
--
Joe Sloan j...@engr.ucr.edu http://dostoevsky.ucr.edu
Linux95 - Real Power NOW! "What do you want to wait for today?"
Redistribution of this message via the Microsoft Network is prohibited
jpa...@news.epix.net
Windoze as the main OS for their programming group instead of OS/2.
They'll never get any applications out the door!
They won't use Winjunk because it's so unstable. They've been using OS/2
for years but neglect to admit it to people. Have a friend who's brother
does Wintrash programming at Microsmegma. He runs OS/2 to develop on at
Microcrap, and OS/2 at home, and absolutely refuses to touch Wishdoze 96.
(unstable, slow, eats hardware resources).
ThinkTank wrote:
: Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
: highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
: They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
: on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
: newsgroups.
: We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
: First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
: Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
: page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
: Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
: sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
: Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
: or rec.gardens.roses.
: Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
: about your .sig.
: They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
: across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
: Billyboy.
: The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
: to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
: less. It will take some uhh .. propaganda to get the word out.
: Any other ideas?
--
+----------------------------------------- jpa...@epix.net +--+\
| | |
| | |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+ |
\______________________________________________________________\|
Edmond Underwood
>Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
>highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
>They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
>on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
>newsgroups.
>We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
>First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
>Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
>page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
>Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
>sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
>Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
>or rec.gardens.roses.
>Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
>about your .sig.
>They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
>across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
>Billyboy.
>The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
>to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
>Any other ideas?
You are dillusional like those folks who bombed the Oklahoma trade tower.
Try to round yourself out some. Smearing the word and putting out hate
messages isn't going to end Micro$oft's dominance. I have a better idea.
Why don't you and your fellow programmers make a better product. That
way I'll buy it. Support up and coming technologies to force MS to
change their ways like OpenDoc. Write an OS/2 app once in a while.
Do anything but this craziness. You will end up in a mad house before
MS falls. Good luck, you need it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edmond Underwood
Systems Management Group
Computing & Network Services (University of Colorado)
E-mail: unde...@Colorado.Edu
Ken
>Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot hate
>microsoft? I run no Windoze or any other M$ sleazeware and am pretty
>happy with my linux system. At least, it is secure and runs without
>crashes for weeks.
>Have phun,
^^^
Oh yea. This is a trained professional with a mature, well considered
opinion :)
===================================================
Xanadu Enterprises Inc./Data Alchemists
"Do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
.signature virus 4.119 REV A
Copy me to YOUR .signature please!
William Near
<> On 15 Jun 1995 Think@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
<> > Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
<> > highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
<> > They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
<> > on this. Those people don't normally read any computer related
<> > newsgroups.
<> > We need to heighten their awareness. This is a two-step procedure.
<> > First, put a subliminal message in your .sig.. Some witty
<> > Anti-Micro$oft quote or better yet a reference to the Micro$oft hate
<> > page at http://www.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at:8001/~chris/HATE/hate.html
<> > Blatant advocacy like "Linux forever" or "OS/2 rulez" won't do,
<> > sorry. This will just make you look like an idiot.
<> > Then post to groups where these people hang out, like rec.pets.cats
<> > or rec.gardens.roses.
<> > Be on-topic. Agree with what people say. This will make them curious
<> > about your .sig.
<> > They might start to investigate, and sooner or later they'll stumble
<> > across the truth: that everyone hates Micro$oft. Voila, one less for
<> > Billyboy.
<> > The point is, as long as this anti Micro$oft sentiment is confined
<> > to the nerdy world of computer scientists, Bill Gates couldn't care
<> > Any other ideas?
<> Heres another idea, makes a bit more of an impact. Get a truck full of
<> jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
<> button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
<> \|/ ImrcOsfo tUskc s ! (Subliminal enuff? :-)
<> @ @
<> *------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------*------------------------------*
<> | __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD |
<> | ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ | The Amiga Community Lives! |
<> | __ //// /\ / / /\ / / / \/ /\ | \ / *-----------*
<> | \\\//// __ \/ _ _ \/ / (_/\/ __ \ | X |Idle/\/\/\/|
<> | \XX/ \/ \/\/ \/ \/\/\____/\/ \/ | / Caliber |Brains\/\/\|
<> | | \ @wco.com|Malfunction|
<> *------------------------------------*------------------*-----------*
<> Tomorrow's technology ten years ago!
--
---------------------------------------------------
Bill ////\ wn...@epix.net
Near ////\\\ A2000/030@50/Picasso II/Supra V.34
//// \\\\ Workbench 3.1_____ __ _
\\\\ ////___\\\\ //// |\ /| | / \ / \
\\\\///-----\\\\/// | \/ | | | __ /---\
\\\\/ \\\\/ | | __|__ \__/ / \
Contributing Editor @ Amiga Report Magazine
---------------------------------------------------
William Near
<> | \\\//// __ \/ _ _ \/ / (_/\/ __ \ | X |Idle/\/\/\/|
<> | \XX/ \/ \/\/ \/ \/\/\____/\/ \/ | / Caliber |Brains\/\/\|
<> | | \ @wco.com|Malfunction|
<> *------------------------------------*------------------*-----------*
<> Tomorrow's technology ten years ago!
You really did steal this! :-)
Joe Ragosta
a0...@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Rainald Menge) wrote:
>
> Well, I agree with you that M$ sucks. But I don't think there is a
> way of telling all those lamers about it. I even tried convincing
> my friends - but they believe in M$.
The only realistic strategy for non-computer literates is to get them to
try MacOS. They're not going to go for anything more complicated.
Certainly Linux (which someone suggested) will never be a useful OS for
the average person who hasn't got a clue.
--
Regards, Joe Ragosta -- 100% Chemical and proud of it.
Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in any form,
in whole or in part. Copyright, Joseph Ragosta, 1995. License to distribute
this post is available to Microsoft for $1000. Posting without permission
constitutes an agreement to these terms. Please send notices of violation
to doc...@interramp.com and Postm...@microsoft.com
Joe Ragosta
>
> <> \|/ ImrcOsfo tUskc s ! (Subliminal enuff? :-)
> <> @ @
> <> *------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------*------------------------------*
> <> | __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD |
> <> | ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ | The Amiga Community Lives! |
> <> | __ //// /\ / / /\ / / / \/ /\ | \ / *-----------*
> <> | \XX/ \/ \/\/ \/ \/\/\____/\/ \/ | / Caliber |Brains\/\/\|
> <> | | \ @wco.com|Malfunction|
> <> *------------------------------------*------------------*-----------*
> <> Tomorrow's technology ten years ago!
>
Or in the case of Microsoft,
"Ten year old technology, Tomorrow."
Ravi Krishna Swamy
>You seem to think that only MS is greedy and monopolistic, and yes they are,
>however, let's take a look at Apple. Apple is the only company that was
>allowed to make Mac's for 11(?) years, just now they're starting to allow Mac
>clones. Don't forget that Apple is the only company allowed to make an OS for
>the Mac, aside from the freeware Linux for Mac. So who's more greedy? MS or
I don't think Linux for the Mac is getting anywhere. Linux and X have
already been ported to the M68k but it runs on Amigas and Atari Falcons.
the Mac port is supposedly not going anywhere because of lack of
hardware documentation from Apple. The PowerPC port is starting back
up again but it'll probably be for CHRP or is that CRHP machines
and not the current PowerMacs.
>Apple? I'd say it was Apple, and Apple's gamble, thankfully, backfired,
>that's not to say that I don't like Mac's, I just don't like the idea that one
>computer company has the total monopoly on it. Just look to the competition
>in the IBM compatible computer industry. No we don't have much competition in
>the OS area, but I think that's good, in a way. We need a standard OS so that
>we can easily share files and programs and, with the exception of IBM Unix
We need a standard OS that is based on *open technology* not an inferior
standard that is shoved down our throats by Bill G.
>OS's, all the popular IBM OS's are MS compatible and because there is some
>competition IBM's OS/2 and PC-DOS and Novell's DOS add functions that MS's
>DOS and Windows don't have.
When you say IBM OS's do you mean OS's from IBM or OS's for IBM compatible
PC's? It got a little confusing. I know Linux isn't as popular as
some of the other commercial OS's, but it is definitely gaining in
popularity among college students.
>If this was 12 years ago, you'd be crying that you can't trade your Apple 2
>programs with your friends because they use Atari's or Commodores. At least
>no there's a standard for the majority of PC's and that's MS DOS/Windows.
Yeah, but it's a closed standard and it's pretty pitiful too. ;)
Ravi
--
"Linux is stable, Windoze is the stuff you find on the floor of a stable."
Ravi K. Swamy http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/r/rkswamy/www/
rks...@eos.ncsu.edu ro...@sdf2.nowhere.to.be.seen.in.the.footage
walt...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
>jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
>button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
>
Reminds me of that story about the guy who bought a new Ford and
had all sorts of problems just as when he was driving it home. He didn't
drive it home. In fact, he parked it in front of his local FOrd Plant
yard, doused it with gasoline, and set it ablaze.
The guy made it on the news and was suddenly flooded with letters
of people agreeing and standing up for him.
It's too bad we can't do that with Microsoft apps on Internet. :)
Ravi Krishna Swamy
>If you want to do something about Microsloth, get them to start using
>Windoze as the main OS for their programming group instead of OS/2.
>They'll never get any applications out the door!
>
>They won't use Winjunk because it's so unstable. They've been using OS/2
>for years but neglect to admit it to people. Have a friend who's brother
>does Wintrash programming at Microsmegma. He runs OS/2 to develop on at
>Microcrap, and OS/2 at home, and absolutely refuses to touch Wishdoze 96.
>(unstable, slow, eats hardware resources).
I heard a similar story about M$ programmers and Linux. I heard a speech
from a guy at the ACC Bookstore. They sell a lot of Linux CD's and other
stuff like that. He said that they have sold Linux CD's to virtually
every research institute, university, software co., and hardware co.
Every software place except Microsoft. He found that odd so he
checked through the records to see all the places they've shipped too.
He found out that they had shipped for CD's to Redmond Washington than
to all of New York City. None of them went to M$ though...
The next time someone called up, ordered a Linux CD, and asked for it
to be shipped to an address in Redmond, WA he asked the guy what
company he worked for. The guy mumbled "Microsoft." This had the
entire audience laughing especially since the speech was given at
the NC State Linux Expo.
Igor Chudov @ home
* ich...@star89.galstar.com (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
* >Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot hate
* >microsoft? I run no Windoze or any other M$ sleazeware and am pretty
* >happy with my linux system. At least, it is secure and runs without
* >crashes for weeks.
* >Have phun,
* ^^^
* Oh yea. This is a trained professional with a mature, well considered
* opinion :)
Have something to say about the matter?
Chris Rom
fast. In the case of M$ it is really frustrating to work on Office for
PowerMac and to see your colleagues with their much faster Windows
versions.
Gates want to get people to change from Mac to PC buy releasing
ridiculously slow Mac software.
Everyone thinks he/she has to buy M$ Office. The alternative to
Word/Excel/Powerpoint is
Nisus&WordPerfect/KaleidaGraph&DeltaGraph/Astound
I just wish somebody would come up with a set of conversion filters for
the latest MS apps.
+++++ close the windows - shut the gates +++++
Christian H. Rom
Dept. of Petroleum Engineering
Texas A&M University
r...@spindletop.tamu.edu
Thane Hathaway
says...
You can! UUencode your copies of MS Word, Excel, etc and email it back
to Microsoft. Bill himself if you want.
Thane Hathaway
Design Engineer
Rosemount Aerospace Inc
tha...@rmtaero.com
Mike Cohen
>I don't think Linux for the Mac is getting anywhere. Linux and X have
>already been ported to the M68k but it runs on Amigas and Atari Falcons.
>the Mac port is supposedly not going anywhere because of lack of
>hardware documentation from Apple. The PowerPC port is starting back
>up again but it'll probably be for CHRP or is that CRHP machines
>and not the current PowerMacs.
That is absolute SHIT. Just go into any bookstore and buy a copy of Inside
Mac and you'll have all of the information you need.
--
Mike Cohen - is...@netcom.com
Home Page: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/is/isis/home.html
PUSH THE BUTTON... SOMEONE
Jeremy Bee
Krishna Swamy) wrote:
> In article <3rqq76$a...@grape.epix.net> jpa...@news.epix.net
(jpa...@epix.net) writes:
> >If you want to do something about Microsloth, get them to start using
> >Windoze as the main OS for their programming group instead of OS/2.
> >They'll never get any applications out the door!
> >
> >They won't use Winjunk because it's so unstable. They've been using OS/2
> >for years but neglect to admit it to people. Have a friend who's brother
> >does Wintrash programming at Microsmegma. He runs OS/2 to develop on at
> >Microcrap, and OS/2 at home, and absolutely refuses to touch Wishdoze 96.
> >(unstable, slow, eats hardware resources).
>
> I heard a similar story about M$ programmers and Linux. I heard a speech
> from a guy at the ACC Bookstore. They sell a lot of Linux CD's and other
> stuff like that. He said that they have sold Linux CD's to virtually
> every research institute, university, software co., and hardware co.
> Every software place except Microsoft. He found that odd so he
> checked through the records to see all the places they've shipped too.
> He found out that they had shipped for CD's to Redmond Washington than
> to all of New York City. None of them went to M$ though...
> The next time someone called up, ordered a Linux CD, and asked for it
> to be shipped to an address in Redmond, WA he asked the guy what
> company he worked for. The guy mumbled "Microsoft." This had the
> entire audience laughing especially since the speech was given at
> the NC State Linux Expo.
>
You can find stories like this in alt.popular.myth all the time, but it
does'nt mean that they are true. The idea that MS programmers, working at
MS would be using OS/2 to develop on is pure fantasy. Note the story
begins in exactly the same way as all stories of this type, ie "...a
friend, who has a brother..." (who knows someone, etc. etc....) Just like
everyone knows someone who knows someone who found a rat in a coke
bottle. Yeah, Right!
The MS programmers all develop on NT, BTW. (Or most anyway) (But I could
see why they might want a copy of Linux just to goof around on.)
Jeremy
--
=====================================================================
Martina Umlauft
: On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Xavier Messersmith wrote:
: > On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Xavier Messersmith wrote:
: > > Heres another idea, makes a bit more of an impact. Get a truck full of
: > > jet fuel, park it under the MicroSloth headquarters, and push a red
: > > button that convieniently ignites the fuel and levels a few blocks.
: >
: > In response to my response, to anyone who took/will take this literally,
: > DON'T! This is a joke and is not a serious threat to either the makers of
: > really dull software or the people who live around their headquarters. I
: > don't know how to get jet fuel, nor do I even know where their
: > headquarters are.
: Redmond, Washington. If you would like I can find out exactly where! :)
Wasn't it 1, Microsoft Way?
Anyway, I assume it must be easy t find - just follow the green Porsche
that speeds like crazy... :-)
Bye,
/|/|artina :)
Student of Computer Science, Technical University Vienna
======================================================================
EMail: e902...@stud1.tuwien.ac.at
Fido: 2:310/81.81
Joseph Coughlan
>In article <3rs0sc$q...@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, rks...@eos.ncsu.edu (Ravi
>Krishna Swamy) wrote:
>You can find stories like this in alt.popular.myth all the time, but it
>does'nt mean that they are true. The idea that MS programmers, working at
>MS would be using OS/2 to develop on is pure fantasy.
It *was* true in the early 90's when MS was talking down OS/2 while
they used OS/2 1.x to compile and link MS windows apps. MS had no
windows based development system back then and may times the only way
to do Excel and Word development was to compile and link under OS/2
then boot back to DOS and load windows.
Most all of the windows 3.0 apps were developed under OS/2.
>Note the story
>begins in exactly the same way as all stories of this type, ie "...a
>friend, who has a brother..." (who knows someone, etc. etc....) Just like
>everyone knows someone who knows someone who found a rat in a coke
>bottle. Yeah, Right!
It's common knowledge among anyone who used MS C 5.1 and C6.0 or
who worked for a ISV way back in the early 90's.
>The MS programmers all develop on NT, BTW. (Or most anyway) (But I could
>see why they might want a copy of Linux just to goof around on.)
Today they do.
When did VC++ for NT arrive and when did Excel 1st ship?
--
Above
Left Right
Below
Before -- J. C. Coughlan, jcou...@gaia.arc.nasa.gov. After
Atarax
[etc]
>
>So you see - Bill Gates will earn more money - there is no way
>to stop those lamers - but as long as users will continue using
>Linux and OS/2 those reals OSs will be supported and we will
>have nice products. Who needs all those win-trash software
>anyway???
>
But they're not supported! For example- If you go buy a Soundblaster AWE32, you
don't find any drivers. All they would have to do is maybe put a few .o files
in, which wouldn't give away their top secret technology... But they don't do
it, because all the whiz-bang programs are for Windows, because all the drivers
are for Windows, because all the whiz-bang programs are for Windows, because
all the drivers are for windows... argh...
It's a fact - "GW-BASIC" stands for Gee-Whiz BASIC...
--
ata...@eznet.net ----/\/\/---- Resist,
-----|(------ Don't Capacitate!
Finger ata...@eznet.net for instructions on how to log on to Hydroxyzine, my
PGP key, and my disclaimer for this message.
===============================================================================
Ravi Krishna Swamy
>rks...@eos.ncsu.edu (Ravi Krishna Swamy) writes:
>
>>I don't think Linux for the Mac is getting anywhere. Linux and X have
>>already been ported to the M68k but it runs on Amigas and Atari Falcons.
>>the Mac port is supposedly not going anywhere because of lack of
>>hardware documentation from Apple. The PowerPC port is starting back
>>up again but it'll probably be for CHRP or is that CRHP machines
>>and not the current PowerMacs.
>
>That is absolute SHIT. Just go into any bookstore and buy a copy of Inside
>Mac and you'll have all of the information you need.
Okay, why don't you tell that to the developers. Here's a page on it
http://www-users.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~hn/linux68k.html
Ravi
Paul Probus
>>OS's, all the popular IBM OS's are MS compatible and because there is some
>>competition IBM's OS/2 and PC-DOS and Novell's DOS add functions that MS's
>>DOS and Windows don't have.
>
>When you say IBM OS's do you mean OS's from IBM or OS's for IBM compatible
>PC's? It got a little confusing. I know Linux isn't as popular as
>some of the other commercial OS's, but it is definitely gaining in
>popularity among college students.
>
>>If this was 12 years ago, you'd be crying that you can't trade your Apple 2
>>programs with your friends because they use Atari's or Commodores. At least
>>no there's a standard for the majority of PC's and that's MS DOS/Windows.
>
>Yeah, but it's a closed standard and it's pretty pitiful too. ;)
>
It's gotten much better, however. Win 95 is quite a bit better than Windows
3.x and Win 3.x was better than plain DOS (IMHO). I've never used OS/2, so I
can't make any judgements about it at all.
Paul Probus
pro...@cnj.digex.net
Anthony D. Tribelli
: Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
: highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
Actually they find Bill's software useful and inexpensive, and they find
his personal history interesting.
The failure of linux and OS/2 is that ordinary users do not see the
software they want on these platforms at a low cost. If you want to end
"Bill's World Domination" work to end this difficiency of linux or OS/2.
By the way, I love linux but I am a programmer and only need an editor
and a compiler. I also personally think OS/2 is better than Windows 3.1.
Tony
--
------------------
Tony Tribelli
adtri...@acm.org
Software Developers
>ThinkTank wrote:
>: Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
>: highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
>
>[SNIP]
>
>This is without a doubt the most pathetic thread that this group has
>started since I started reading this group a year ago.
>
>I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But I must respond.
Oh, you _must_. :-)
>1. It is MICROSOFT....not Micro$oft or Microsloth or Micromonopoly.
I prefer Microslop. :-)
>2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
> nationwide.
Numbers don't necessarily provide the best measurements of quality.
>It is used everyday by buisnesses, home users, kids
> elderly, middleaged, government, and any other group you can name.
>
> It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
> computing.
That depends on how you define successful. It certainly has sold a lot
of copies, but most of those were sold bundled with hardware. It would be
interesting to know how many fewer copies would have sold had people been
given a several choices of what came preloaded on their PC's.
>In a market economy, this kind of success for such an
> extended period of time means that Windows must offer something to
> Users.
One thing that it typically _hasn't_ offered people is that choice. Most
people aren't given a choice whether to buy MS-DOS and MS-Windoze.
> So my question is...Do you think that the 50 million who use windows
> are stupid?
Maybe not really stupid, but a lot of them are pretty much ignorant
when it comes to computers. A lot of them just plain have no choice
because it is forced on them by the circumstances.
>or Do you think that they are forced to use windows
> by some mind control device in Redmond.
Many are forced to use Windoze, but that isn't the method that the enforcement
is done by...
>3. Bill Gates is not the Anti-Christ. He is not even a lower ranking
> lackey of the Devil.
Even if you don't buy into the religious stuff, I think that Bill Gates is
an evil, greedy megalomaniac.
>He is a succesful buisnessman. If Bill Gates
> ran Commedore instead of Ali, Amiga would be the industry standard.
If Bill Gates ran Commodore, they never would have been interested in
something like the Amiga...
>4. Nobody forces people to run windows.
Hah. That's simply not true in many cases.
>They use windows and Dos because
> it is useful.
They use it because they are stuck with it or too ignorant to know they
have a choice in many cases.
>5. Microsoft and Bill Gates have no impact on the Amiga.
Not true either. Microslop (and thus Bill Gates, since he largely
controls the direction of Microslop) has a great deal of impact on all
other platforms. In the case of the Amiga, it is just more indirect
than on other platforms.
>6. When Windows 95 ships in August, it will imediatly be packed onto
> 14 million computer (according to US News and World Report).
All hell is going to break loose this fall... I am expecting a lot of
problems...
> The reason is not because Bill Gates is blackmailing the computer makers.
Actually "blackmail" is probably a bit to strong... but Microslop's
history of using business practices of questionable ethical standards
certainly has something to do with it...
> The reason is beacuse users want Win95. It will be a significant
> advance of windows 3.1.
It doesn't take much to be a significant improvement on Windoze 3.1. It
also doesn't mean that Win95 is going to be better than a lot of other
things that are already out there. Even Microsoft's own Windoze NT is
still going to be considerably superior to Win95 in most ways.
>7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
> all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs.
Hardly. I think Bill Gates has done more to hold back the advancement of
personal computers than just about anyone outside of IBM.
>Gates provided a
> way for an extreamly popular hardware (x86) to be used by anybody.
He did nothing that numerous other companies couldn't have done, and
couldn't have done better. He was simply at the right place at the
right time, and stabbed the right backs...
>8. All the complaining about Micosoft and Gates in this group just makes
> the posters sound jealous. They can't believe that an "inferior"
> product is more successful than their precious Amiga.
>
> Well wake up and smell the coffee. Windows in not an "inferior"
> product.
But it _is_ an inferior product... at least it is inferior to numerous
other alternatives.
>Windows users are not pathetic sheep following Bill Gates.
> Windows is a useful program that sets an industry standard.
A closed, proprietary standard. That is a step back to the 60's and 70's
when the OS market was closed and proprietary and controlled by IBM and
a few other smaller vendors.
> If you think about it, Which is more likely...That 50 Mil windows
> users are wrong or that 1 Mil Amiga users are wrong.
Amiga users aren't the only ones that think Windoze stinks. A lot of
Windoze users think so... Mac users think so... OS/2 users think so...
UNIX users think so... etc.
>9. Microsoft and Intel are two different comopanies. Intel makes
> hardware and nothing else. Microsoft makes software and a couple of
> periferals. There is no more collution between the two than between
> the makers of staples and paper.
How do you know there is no more collusion than that? It certainly
appears otherwise...
>10. And finally..To all those who suggest other OS's as the solution.
> Your suggestion of OS2 and Liunix prove that other choices exist.
Sure, other choices exist...
> I could use Liunix ( I am using AIX to post this) and I could use
> OS2 but I choose to use Windows. Not because I am stupid or
> Ignorant, but because I actually find it the most usefull, especially
> in terms of compatibility.
>
>Flames are welcome, but please respond to the e-mail address below. I
>hate the unix mail program.
Which shows a little ignorance... _Which_ UNIX mail program? There are
quite a few choices...
>or better yet post a follow up to this
>article.
"I speak only for myself, Lee Heins
not for my employers." sw...@worf.netins.net or le...@cadalyst.com
My Linux box is: Microsoft Free, Intel Free & IBM Free...
Chris Rom
>Mike Cohen - is...@netcom.com
better yet, get on the Apple Web Server and download the whole stuff for free (http://www.info.apple.com/)
A friend of mine found out too late and wasted almost 200 bucks.
Chris Rom
Aaron Sommer
> Yes. Get a job that You enjoy instead! Or go out enjoy the compamy
> of some friends and have fun! Maybe You would feel better if You
> find some meaningful hobby to fill out your time with! Go out and
> date some pretty girls!
>
> This would maybe enhance your life more instead of 'hateing' things.
>
> Take care,
>
> m a r t i n n
>
> --
> m...@cd.chalmers.se
> http://www.cd.chalmers.se/~mts
> mts @ IRC (on #MTS)
Er? Sorry, but Microsoft is lazy and getting lazier. It's what comes of
being the biggest one on the block...
Case in point- Word 6 for the Mac. Instead of writing a program and
compiling it for the mac processor, they wrote a windows emulator that
would allow a slightly-modified Word 6 for Windows to run. The result? A
slug-shit-slow program, reminiscent of Windows, intended for use by people
who (in general) have had a pronounced dislike of Windows since it came
out.
This decision was made under a "Common Code" policy... a policy meant to
enhance Microsoft's profits, _not_ a policy designed to provide quality
software to customers.
If they keep this shit up, they're going to go down, and we won't have to
do anything to help.
Aaron Sommer
> You seem to think that only MS is greedy and monopolistic, and yes they are,
> however, let's take a look at Apple. Apple is the only company that was
> allowed to make Mac's for 11(?) years, just now they're starting to allow Mac
> clones. Don't forget that Apple is the only company allowed to make an
OS for
> the Mac, aside from the freeware Linux for Mac. So who's more greedy? MS or
> that's not to say that I don't like Mac's, I just don't like the idea
that one
> computer company has the total monopoly on it. Just look to the competition
> in the IBM compatible computer industry. No we don't have much
competition in
> the OS area, but I think that's good, in a way. We need a standard OS
so that
> we can easily share files and programs and, with the exception of IBM Unix
> competition IBM's OS/2 and PC-DOS and Novell's DOS add functions that MS's
> DOS and Windows don't have.
>
> programs with your friends because they use Atari's or Commodores. At least
> no there's a standard for the majority of PC's and that's MS DOS/Windows.
>
> pro...@cnj.digex.net
Gee, you make it sound like everyone's been fighting to write a Mac OS for
the last decade. Not so... I've been using them for the last decade, and
I've been hearing "Apple's going out of business...", "They'll never
last...", "Mac? you use a toy?...", "Why not get a _REAL_ computer?",
"Macs are for morons", and "gee, isn't windows great?" for almost as long.
Apple's been restricting who made Mac hardware, not who wrote software.
John Coggi
John
--
John M. Coggi | CorrectSpeak for Mac - v1.0 (unregistered)
The Aerospace Corporation | Offensive remarks found : 0
john_...@qmail2.aero.org | Offensive remarks removed : 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
********************** KEEP BILL OFF THE HIGHWAY **********************
Evan Berry
:>does'nt mean that they are true. The idea that MS programmers, working at
:>begins in exactly the same way as all stories of this type, ie "...a
:>friend, who has a brother..." (who knows someone, etc. etc....) Just like
:>everyone knows someone who knows someone who found a rat in a coke
:>bottle. Yeah, Right!
:>The MS programmers all develop on NT, BTW. (Or most anyway) (But I could
:>see why they might want a copy of Linux just to goof around on.)
By the same token I guess you heard that from a friend of a friend who found
a rat(Bill) in a coke can.
JESSE MICHAEL FALK
:?On 16 Jun 1995 15:39:13 GMT, Nachtigall articulated:
:?<> ThinkTank wrote:
:?<> : Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
:?<> : highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
:?<> : They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they think that everyone agrees
:?<> [SNIP]
:?<> This is without a doubt the most pathetic thread that this group has
:?<> started since I started reading this group a year ago.
:?<> I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But I must respond.
Just laugh. Shitboy will die slowly -- but soon!
:?<> 1. It is MICROSOFT....not Micro$oft or Microsloth or Micromonopoly.
:?Wrong, it's whatever derogatory term we choose to use at the
:?moment! :-)
Like Fuckosoft or FuckUsoft or This Fuckin' Sucks
:?<> 2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
:?<> nationwide. It is used everyday by buisnesses, home users, kids
:?<> elderly, middleaged, government, and any other group you can name.
:?True, but most of the home computers have Windows because
:?they either came with it preinstalled or because the buyer
:?listened to all the hype and thought that it must be a good
:?product. In short, they wer duped.
I suppose guided missile systems and F-16's run windows, eh? I can see it
now.. "See ya later Charlie, time for some SOLITAIRE!!" heheheheh
:?<> It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
:?<> computing. In a market economy, this kind of success for such an
:?<> extended period of time means that Windows must offer something to
:?<> Users.
:?Yes, endless upgrades and bug fixes. Hype, hype, and hype
:?were the key players here.
Ah yes, another shithead who believes tyranny is a suitable long-term form
of government. Bonus question: Did FuckShitSoft engage in any acts of
unfair competition to get where it's at? Win at all costs, eh? Well what
about the cost in human evolution and SANITY that windoze exacts?
:?<> So my question is...Do you think that the 50 million who use windows
:?<> are stupid? or Do you think that they are forced to use windows
:?<> by some mind control device in Redmond.
:?Stupid, for the most part. Well, stupid is kinda strong --
:?let's say uninformed and naive.
Let's say they don't have much of a choice. Over the age of 35, where
time is of the essence, not many potential users can afford a) to learn a
non-GUI system <sad to say> and b) the price of a mac and it's software
<copies of DOS stuff are EASY to come by... SO easy, in fact...>
:?<> 3. Bill Gates is not the Anti-Christ. He is not even a lower ranking
:?Yes he is! Have you seen where they converted the product
:?names and such to binary and it came out 666? :-)
He isn't smart enough to be the Anti-Christ. If he were, he'd give us all
something we REALLY liked... for a while.
:?<> lackey of the Devil. He is a succesful buisnessman. If Bill Gates
:?<> ran Commedore instead of Ali, Amiga would be the industry standard.
:?Very, very true. He knoes how to market things, this is
:?quite different than saying he knows how to make great
:?software. Yes, MS does have some very good products, but
:?Windblows sucks, plain and simple.
Very false. Billy wouldn't know what to do with the potential of Amiga
any more than IBM. Big blue wouldv'e crushed him like they crushed Apple.
Not completely, thankfully. By the way, I apologize to Amiga users for
even considering a possibility of Gates owning them. I erase the words.
:?<> 4. Nobody forces people to run windows. They use windows and Dos because
:?<> it is useful.
:?Hmmm...
I believe you mean, ummm Microsoft forces people to use Billblows.
:?<> 5. Microsoft and Bill Gates have no impact on the Amiga.
:?Well, if they weren't so damned powerful then the Amiga and
:?Macs would have a better foothold in the computer market.
:?So, you could say that they have an indirect impact.
Seems rather to the point to me.. What's with all this indirect stuff?
:?<> 6. When Windows 95 ships in August, it will imediatly be packed onto
:?<> 14 million computer (according to US News and World Report).
:?So, does this make it wonderful? Look at Windslows 3.x??
:?<> The reason is not because Bill Gates is blackmailing the computer
:?<> makers.
:?No, he just wants to run the whole world! Shades of someone
:?we all know and love from a bygone era (circa 193x)
Through illegal software licensing fees (charging for total number of
machines sold vs number of Microsoft installs [so preloading anything
else would cost twice as much]) Microsoft's operating system and GUI
interface have been installed on the majority of 80x86 systems. <M. Bell>
:?<> The reason is beacuse users want Win95. It will be a significant
:?<> advance of windows 3.1.
:?They want it, for the most part, because they're told that
:?they want it.
Hear hear / monkey see monkey do
:?<> 7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
:?<> all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs. Gates provided a
:?<> way for an extreamly popular hardware (x86) to be used by anybody.
:?<> 8. All the complaining about Micosoft and Gates in this group just makes
:?<> the posters sound jealous. They can't believe that an "inferior"
:?<> product is more successful than their precious Amiga.
:?You're right! It makes me sick to think of what the
:?computing industry could be today if the Amiga had had the
:?influx of such huge amounts of cash, R&D, and advertising
:?like the clones have had over the years. Perfectly stated,
:?the clones are inferior when compared to the basic design
:?philosophy of the Amiga and its OS.
Non-Amiga users happen to post here as well, case in point. Jealousy has
nothing to do with it. I do not want to be Bill Gates at all. I'd rather
be Jesse Helms than Fuckface. It's about tring to destroy something that
sucks -- that's the whole point. Getting the huge software demon Scumsoft
off our backs so we can have something better OR AT LEAAAAAST different.
:?<> Well wake up and smell the coffee. Windows in not an "inferior"
:?<> product. Windows users are not pathetic sheep following Bill Gates.
:?This is your opinion -- sounds like you may be one of the
:?"sheep" and just don't realize it.
Canna get an amen, brothers? baaa baaa baa
:?<> Windows is a useful program that sets an industry standard.
:?A standard of what? Crashing? If this is the end-all, be-all
:?standard, then you should be afraid -- very afraid!
No I think that's^^^ WE. But don't be afraid. A mindless Microzombie like
this will be easy to dispatch. Hope he's typical.
:?<> If you think about it, Which is more likely...That 50 Mil windows
:?<> users are wrong or that 1 Mil Amiga users are wrong.
:?50 million Windows users. I'm sure many parallels could be
:?drawn to show where the minority was right and the majority
:?was wrong in other areas. Anyone?
Oooh, big one. let's see.. Jews vs. Romans, Jews vs. Hitler, Einstein vs.
A-bomb, Indians vs. colonists, blacks vs. plantation-owners, Brown v. board,
little kid vs. naked emperor, opponents of prop. 187 vs. assholes for it,
umm.. damn, I'm not enough of a historian <or caring individual> to go
on. If I think about it I call you a fucking idiot. Do you always adopt
that stupidass attitude? Maybe when 49 accusing fingers are pointed at
you <ever hear of mob mentality, dipshit?> you'll understand.
:?<> 9. Microsoft and Intel are two different comopanies. Intel makes
:?<> hardware and nothing else. Microsoft makes software and a couple of
:?<> periferals. There is no more collution between the two than between
:?<> the makers of staples and paper.
:?Questionable.
Are you fucking stupid? Have you studied basic economics or what?
I believe you call that "COMPLEMENTARY GOODS" dumbass. Look it up, then
tell me they have no relationship with each other. Well, whatever they're
called, d'ya possibly think that if Intel <and AMD to be safe> went out
of business it would hurt or help Shittysoft? Well DUH!
:?<> 10. And finally..To all those who suggest other OS's as the solution.
:?<> Your suggestion of OS2 and Liunix prove that other choices exist.
:?<>
:?<> I could use Liunix ( I am using AIX to post this) and I could use
:?<> OS2 but I choose to use Windows. Not because I am stupid or
:?<> Ignorant, but because I actually find it the most usefull, especially
:?<> in terms of compatibility.
:?Have you seen an Amiga or are you just pretending that you
:?have?
:?<> Flames are welcome, but please respond to the e-mail address below. I
:?<> hate the unix mail program. or better yet post a follow up to this
:?<> article.
:?Here it is -- I wasn't about to let this one pass me by. :-)
BURN BITCH BURN.
:?--
:?---------------------------------------------------
:? Bill ////\ wn...@epix.net
:? Near ////\\\ A2000/030@50/Picasso II/Supra V.34
:? //// \\\\ Workbench 3.1_____ _ __ _____ ____
:? \\\\ ////___\\\\ //// |\ /| | / \ / \ | | |
:? \\\\///-----\\\\/// | \/ | |--- /---\ | __ |--- |---/
:? \\\\/ \\\\/ | | |____ / \ \__/ |____ | \ ...
:? excuse for a computer.. heheheheheh
:?---------------------------------------------------
JESSE MICHAEL FALK
:?ich...@star89.galstar.com (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
:?>Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot hate
:?>microsoft? I run no Windoze or any other M$ sleazeware and am pretty
:?>happy with my linux system. At least, it is secure and runs without
:?>crashes for weeks.
:?>Have phun,
:? ^^^
:? Oh yea. This is a trained professional with a mature, well considered
:?opinion :)
:?===================================================
:?Xanadu Enterprises Inc./Data Alchemists
:?"Do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
that's tryING, bitch.
:?.signature virus 4.119 REV A
:?Copy me to YOUR .signature please!
Michael Lewis
OTHER OPERATING systems, sell them at prices that are competitive with M$
products, and HYPE THEM TO DEATH. Its that simple. Whether this is
possible or not remains to be seen.
Most business users have a minimal interaction with the OS of any system
with the possible exception of file management. Programmers and
enthusiasts on the other hand obviously have much more at stake in
selecting a stable and productive environment.
Most M$ users (like myself, I'm afraid to admit) use the crap becuase they
are either forced to by people who care only about the immediate bottom
line or have no alternative. Also lot of first time types actually believe
that Bill Gates is the genious that all the popular press makes him out to
be. But anyone with a shread of memory will remember that virtually all of
M$/Gate's great "innovations" existed long before they came out of
Redmond.
e9026329
>From: Chris Rom <r...@spindletop.tamu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Let's do something about Microsoft
>Date: 16 Jun 1995 16:18:10 GMT
>I really don't care who writes an application as long as it is good and
>fast. In the case of M$ it is really frustrating to work on Office for
>PowerMac and to see your colleagues with their much faster Windows
>versions.
>Gates want to get people to change from Mac to PC buy releasing
>ridiculously slow Mac software.
>Everyone thinks he/she has to buy M$ Office. The alternative to
>Word/Excel/Powerpoint is
>Nisus&WordPerfect/KaleidaGraph&DeltaGraph/Astound
>I just wish somebody would come up with a set of conversion filters for
>the latest MS apps.
How can they?
eg. the Winword format is (better sit down) _COMPANY CONFIDENTAL_!!! Yeah, you
can license it from M$ but guess how much they would make you pay if you came
up to them and told them, hey I want a license for winword format, please so I
can compete with you...
So much for M$ producing "open standards" as some people always claim...
Bye, Martina :)
e9026329
>From: mobe...@oslonett.no (Rune Moberg)
>Subject: Re: Let's do something about Microsoft
>In article <1995Jun16.1...@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
>tha...@rmtaero.com (Thane Hathaway) wrote:
>> > It's too bad we can't do that with Microsoft apps on Internet.
>> :)
>> You can! UUencode your copies of MS Word, Excel, etc and email it back
>> to Microsoft. Bill himself if you want.
>Good idea!
>His email address is bi...@microsoft.com!
>Now for the bad news: Bill is apparently using a killfile, and he will
>only receive mail from people he have mailed before. I.e. he will not notice
And this guy claims to be "on the internet every day" ... ROTFL!!!
>a thing, and you will really only cripple the bandwidth of internet. And
>by doing so, you'll contribute to make MSN (Microsoft Network) look *good*.
Too bad... :-(
Bye, Martina :)
N S Curzon
between games players and application users- games players are descresionary-
if they don't like games user interface then they will not play it. On the
other hand, with application user it is just the oposite- they will try and
percivere with a program, dispite user interface problems. This is the problem
with Windows- most of the punters have no idea that there are alternatives
available and so they will learn to use the interface available. The other main
problem that the alternative OSs face is one of software, or should I say the
lack of it. Basically it is a questionof that if you want to run most of the
software out there, then you need a PC which runs MS-DOS and Windows. It is
supprising how many of the punters know this. Also, having read consumer report
magazine (In the UK there is one called Which?), when they review computers,
the PC tends to get the thumbs up while with other computer formats, they tend
to say that they are good but they useually attach warnings about them not
having much software or a low user base.
Games players tend to flock towards computer with lots of games available; in
the mid to late eighties in the uk, the Atari ST and the Amiga did well because
these were the computers that most people could afford; the Mac was way to
expensive and the PC that were in the same price bracket just could not compete
on features and graphics capability. But as PCs became cheaper, more and more
games appeared on the shelves and now the PC is the number one games platform
in the UK (correct me if I'm wrong about that). The Fact of the matter is that
if the Mac (principally the Mac as that was the one with mor appeal for the
games players) was cheaper in the late eighties, then perhapes the Mac would
have more games. Iremember a time when it was cheaper to fly to New York, USA,
buy a Mac and then bring it back with you (my Mother remembers having a chat
with a gent on a plane would had done just that!). Of course things have
changes since then but I cannot help get the feeling that maybe things are a
little two late; just look through a general games magazine and see how many
games are avialable for both the PC and the Mac. Some magazines have print
articles saying that with Apple allowing computer manufacturers to produce mac
clones that things are going to change for the better but I'm not going to
believe it until I see it; I guess I'm too cynical.
But why are PCs so popular? It's not down to good games support. Its down to
avialability and price. On average, the PC is just cheaper than the mac, and
given that Windows is bundled with the machine, then people are not going to
spend more money on a replacement OS when there is one that can do the job. The
problem with the mac in the past was that only Apple made them, where as with
the PC there is a large number of companies. With IT professionals, who have to
buy computer for networks; price perfomance ratios and which OS offer tha most
productivity can quikly become moot points. If an IT professional has to buy X
computers and have them all networked and offering a certain range of software,
then they are going to work within their budget. It is difficult for them to
justify the extra cost of a computer system that may have a better OS and
software, but costs so much more.
Windows is successful because it works with the operating system that is in
most of the computers on the planet. I think it was a question of a bunch of PC
users who saw the Mac at work and said `hhhmmmm, I like that, but I want it on
my existing set up'. Microsoft saw a business oportunity and took it; they
provided what the punter wanted (or maybe it is a case of they provided what
they think they wanted and the punter couldn't argue because there was nothing
else).
My bottom line in this `issue' is that price is an overriding consideration. I
remember when a British computer entertainment magazine had a feature on
computers in the USA (it was published 1988/89). THey did a survey asking
people what computers they had and actually wanted. A number of of the people
said that they had PCs, but they really wanted Macs.
--
Neil Curzon
Rune Moberg
jpa...@news.epix.net (jpa...@epix.net) wrote:
> Jeremy... WRONG asswipe. The friend is my boss, and it's her brother at
> Microslop. I've talked with him before on the fone and heard it live. Your
> "fantasy" theory is completely invalid.
>
> Repeat: Microjerk uses OS/2 for DEVELOPMENT because it's stable. Windoze
> and NT are stuff you find on the floor of the stable.
Someone is pulling your leg. It's either that, or you're incredible stupid.
OS/2 can't even run Win32 apps, how do you think they'd overcome that?
Windows NT is not only more stable than OS/2, it has better security and
is extremely suitable for serious application development.
OTOH, MS may have some OS/2 versions of some of their apps, or atleast they
once had plans for this. Maybe this is what you heard?
Anyway, next year no one will even remember "OS/2". At best they might
remember that IBM released their PowerPC this year, bundling it with
Windows NT.
=\
*=- R.Moberg, author of CD-Player Pro! ftp.cica.indiana.edu:
=/ /win3/sounds/cdppro45.zip
Bootstrap1
Hey bud, turn a few neurons on before you start writing. Apple being the
sole supplier of Macs for the last eleven years doesn't make them any more
a monopoloy than Mercedes Benz is a monopoly for being the sole supplier
of Mercedes, or CocaCola is a monoploy for being the sole supplier of
Coke. If computer users don't like the Mac or Apple or their terms, they
have other choices they can make.
Does the same hold true for Microsoft? No. Microsoft makes the OS used
by 85% of the computer buyers out there. It's true that all these
computer buyers themselves could choose other, incompatible systems (OS/2,
Mac OS, Unix, whatever), yet - for whatever reason - they don't.
Therefore, computer manufacturers that want to sell to this market are
stuck buying Microsoft's OS. That's the monopoly; users aren't compelled
to buy Microsoft, but computer manufacturers are.
At first, Microsoft had the lock on MS-DOS, and if any computer
manufacturer wanted to participate in the MS-DOS market (or in the
personal computer market at all, since Mac clones weren't available), they
had to buy Microsoft. When MS-DOS clones like DR-DOS hit the market,
Microsoft scrambled to create a new proprietary standard: Windows. If
computer manufacturers wanted to participate in the Windows market (which,
for all intents and purposes, was still the personal computer market,
since Mac clones weren't available), they had to buy Microsoft.
The power of this monopoly is so strong that Microsoft could force OEMs to
do all kinds of stupid things. Like paying Microsoft for using a copy of
MS-DOS even if they used DR-DOS instead, or paying Microsoft for using a
copy of Windows even if they used OS/2 instead. Or like granting
Microsoft absolution from any future patent infringements. If these
things aren't signs of a monopoly, I don't know what is.
Both the Mac clone market and OS/2 have the potential to break Microsoft's
monopoly on hardware developers, but it will take a few years before this
has a chance to happen. I guarantee that MS will fight tooth and nail to
ensure that the monopoly stands.
And not licensing a product isn't the same thing as greed. Apple did this
to maintain a competitive advantage, something that many people are
willing to pay extra for, just as many people are willing to pay extra for
something other than a Yugo. And despite what you might think, Apple
didn't pocket all those profits; for most of the last ten years, Apple
spent more on R&D than Microsoft and all the clone makers combined to try
to make Macs even more distinctive and create great new technologies. If
nothing else, you can thank Apple for digital video.
You say Apple's plan backfired. What do you think their plan was. Apple
has installed base of 20 million Macs, far more than any of its
competitors (except IBM). Apple's market share of first-time computer
buyers is over 30%. And Apple has the best-known brand name in the
industry, a brand name that is synonomous with ease-of-use. It is
possible that if Apple had chosen the clone-route early, they would have
85% of the market; it's also possible that Mac clones would have wound up
with as many problems as PC-compatibles, erasing Apple's primary
advantage.
Nathan Tennies
Bootstrap Enterprises Inc
Rune Moberg
Xavier Messersmith <xcal...@wco.com> wrote:
> | __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD |
> | ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ | The Amiga Community Lives! |
I wouldn't call a 40MB disk "living".
In fact, when available hard disk space drops below 40MB, one should
invest in a new disk ASAP!
Rune Moberg
ich...@star89.galstar.com (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
> Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot hate
What's your point?
I run Windows NT, it's secure and runs without crashes (period).
*And* it lets me run my favorite apps.
jpa...@news.epix.net
Microslop. I've talked with him before on the fone and heard it live. Your
"fantasy" theory is completely invalid.
Repeat: Microjerk uses OS/2 for DEVELOPMENT because it's stable. Windoze
and NT are stuff you find on the floor of the stable.
Jeremy Bee (b...@sfu.ca) wrote:
: In article <3rs0sc$q...@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, rks...@eos.ncsu.edu (Ravi
: Krishna Swamy) wrote:
: > >They won't use Winjunk because it's so unstable. They've been using OS/2
: > >for years but neglect to admit it to people. Have a friend who's brother
: > >does Wintrash programming at Microsmegma. He runs OS/2 to develop on at
: > >Microcrap, and OS/2 at home, and absolutely refuses to touch Wishdoze 96.
: > >(unstable, slow, eats hardware resources).
: >
: You can find stories like this in alt.popular.myth all the time, but it
: does'nt mean that they are true. The idea that MS programmers, working at
: MS would be using OS/2 to develop on is pure fantasy. Note the story
: begins in exactly the same way as all stories of this type, ie "...a
: friend, who has a brother..." (who knows someone, etc. etc....) Just like
: everyone knows someone who knows someone who found a rat in a coke
: bottle. Yeah, Right!
: The MS programmers all develop on NT, BTW. (Or most anyway) (But I could
: see why they might want a copy of Linux just to goof around on.)
: Jeremy
: --
: =====================================================================
Rune Moberg
> standard that is shoved down our throats by Bill G.
Sorry. Unix is not the answer. Microsoft has made enourmus progress in the
open area, and NT is really the only open operating system on the market
today. UNIX is as closed as it gets.
The standards that MS proposes are in no way inferior. They've got several
exciting API's that are gaining alot of support. E.g. TAPI (Telephony API),
WinG, their new 3D API (supplementing their "inferior" OpenGL
implementation) and a sound API.
A Win32 program can be recompiled to Alpha, MIPS and PowerPC without any
makefile hacking.
> When you say IBM OS's do you mean OS's from IBM or OS's for IBM compatible
> PC's? It got a little confusing. I know Linux isn't as popular as
> some of the other commercial OS's, but it is definitely gaining in
> popularity among college students.
Yeah, and college students will continue to use this after they get a
hair cut and a job?
Rune Moberg
tha...@rmtaero.com (Thane Hathaway) wrote:
> > It's too bad we can't do that with Microsoft apps on Internet.
> :)
> You can! UUencode your copies of MS Word, Excel, etc and email it back
> to Microsoft. Bill himself if you want.
Good idea!
His email address is bi...@microsoft.com!
Now for the bad news: Bill is apparently using a killfile, and he will
only receive mail from people he have mailed before. I.e. he will not notice
a thing, and you will really only cripple the bandwidth of internet. And
by doing so, you'll contribute to make MSN (Microsoft Network) look *good*.
So go ahead!
Rune Moberg
aaron_...@herringn.com (Aaron Sommer) wrote:
> Case in point- Word 6 for the Mac. Instead of writing a program and
> compiling it for the mac processor, they wrote a windows emulator that
> would allow a slightly-modified Word 6 for Windows to run. The result? A
> slug-shit-slow program, reminiscent of Windows, intended for use by people
> who (in general) have had a pronounced dislike of Windows since it came
> out.
>
> This decision was made under a "Common Code" policy... a policy meant to
> enhance Microsoft's profits, _not_ a policy designed to provide quality
> software to customers.
OTOH, it might have been an effort to ease porting, and to contribute to
a faster release. The PowerMac was supposedly a fast beast, so I guess they
prioritized a sooner release date, than a top-speed program... I read that
they have an upgrade available now (rather two-three months ago) that
should improve things.
MS have made several efforts later to come up with something that eases
porting of MFC based applications. Granted, it was very rusty in the begining
(as most things usually are) but it's gradually improving.
> If they keep this shit up, they're going to go down, and we won't have to
> do anything to help.
So, you do not protest against Apple then? For making machines that no-one
are allowed to clone (for a reasonable price)? Or because they release
a PowerPC based machine that doesn't resemble IBM's PowerPC machine at
all? Or the way they neglect PCI now, but make it more and more standard
on later models?
You're being screwed by Apple, Microsoft is just trying to come up with
a better alternative for a reasonable price.
Rune Moberg
sw...@worf.netins.net (Software Developers) wrote:
> >1. It is MICROSOFT....not Micro$oft or Microsloth or Micromonopoly.
Name calling is just plain childish.
To illustrate it, I called "Warp" for "Wart" in an earlier post.
"Amiga" would (deservedly so) become "lAmiga"
"Macintosh" would become "Møkkinboks" (Norwegian for "ShitInBox")
"Apple" would become "Nap-le"
Using "alternative" names, not only makes your post more unreadable,
it also shows the degree of jealousy of the poster.
> >2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
> > nationwide.
> Numbers don't necessarily provide the best measurements of quality.
They are a pretty good indicator.
> > It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
> > computing.
> That depends on how you define successful. It certainly has sold a lot
Success=used by many people, for doing real work.
> of copies, but most of those were sold bundled with hardware. It would be
Other OS's are bundled with the hardware as well. Except that the popular
and successful Windows is bundled more frequently than any other OS...
> > So my question is...Do you think that the 50 million who use windows
> > are stupid?
> Maybe not really stupid, but a lot of them are pretty much ignorant
> when it comes to computers. A lot of them just plain have no choice
> because it is forced on them by the circumstances.
One of the "circumstances" is the simple fact that most software today
is being made for Windows. Alot of the big ones have stated that they
are making Win95 versions of their products right now, and expect to ship
within short period of time after Win95 itself ships.
> >3. Bill Gates is not the Anti-Christ. He is not even a lower ranking
> > lackey of the Devil.
> Even if you don't buy into the religious stuff, I think that Bill Gates is
> an evil, greedy megalomaniac.
Bullshit.
> >He is a succesful buisnessman. If Bill Gates
> > ran Commedore instead of Ali, Amiga would be the industry standard.
> If Bill Gates ran Commodore, they never would have been interested in
> something like the Amiga...
Doesn't matter. Commodore doesn't exist anymore. RIP. With proper management
they might have avoided that, but then again, then they would've avoided
the Amiga in the first place.
> >6. When Windows 95 ships in August, it will imediatly be packed onto
> > 14 million computer (according to US News and World Report).
> All hell is going to break loose this fall... I am expecting a lot of
> problems...
Such as...?
Not only is it easier to install in a network environment, but it also
provides better performance and more stability than it's predecessor.
But still you "predict" problems...
> Actually "blackmail" is probably a bit to strong... but Microslop's
> history of using business practices of questionable ethical standards
> certainly has something to do with it...
IBM isn't exactly clean in that area either. And we all know how Apple
behave.
> > The reason is beacuse users want Win95. It will be a significant
> > advance of windows 3.1.
> It doesn't take much to be a significant improvement on Windoze 3.1. It
> also doesn't mean that Win95 is going to be better than a lot of other
> things that are already out there. Even Microsoft's own Windoze NT is
> still going to be considerably superior to Win95 in most ways.
You see, that last statement reveals you're clueless.
Windows NT is the best operating system around, no doubt. But it has one
flaw: It doesn't run well on low-end configurations. That's one hole
Microsoft wants to cover. NT have also a problem with backwards compatibility
(with old DOS and Windows apps). Win95 will mostly provide a bridge from
the 16 bit world to the Win32 world. Win95 will probably be discontinued
two-three years from now, and from then NT will be MS' only operating system.
Meanwhile, NT will have Win95's user interface by January, and I suspect that
Plug'n'Play support will come later (haven't seen this mentioned).
Win95 programs will run on NT in the future (they should run already now,
as long as they don't rely on Win95 specific functions).
> >7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
> > all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs.
> Hardly. I think Bill Gates has done more to hold back the advancement of
> personal computers than just about anyone outside of IBM.
Bull.
> >Windows users are not pathetic sheep following Bill Gates.
> > Windows is a useful program that sets an industry standard.
> A closed, proprietary standard. That is a step back to the 60's and 70's
> when the OS market was closed and proprietary and controlled by IBM and
> a few other smaller vendors.
Sorry, Windows is the most open standard of them all. UNIX development
have been close to zero the last 5 years, and the only reason for any
development at all is the urge to compete with MS' alternative which is
cheaper and more featurepacked. Namely Windows NT. Windows NT 3.1 alledgedly
sold more licenses than any single UNIX version.
> >Flames are welcome, but please respond to the e-mail address below. I
> >hate the unix mail program.
> Which shows a little ignorance... _Which_ UNIX mail program? There are
> quite a few choices...
I'm not the original poster, but I always thought that the "Mail" (or
mailx) was the standard UNIX mail program? It stinks. So does any non-
graphical mail program. So does any mailprogram that doesn't allow you
to put in different fonts and colors.
> My Linux box is: Microsoft Free, Intel Free & IBM Free...
And support free / no support!
William Near
<> : Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
<> [SNIP]
<> This is without a doubt the most pathetic thread that this group has
<> started since I started reading this group a year ago.
<> I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But I must respond.
<> 1. It is MICROSOFT....not Micro$oft or Microsloth or Micromonopoly.
Wrong, it's whatever derogatory term we choose to use at the
moment! :-)
<> 2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
<> nationwide. It is used everyday by buisnesses, home users, kids
<> elderly, middleaged, government, and any other group you can name.
True, but most of the home computers have Windows because
they either came with it preinstalled or because the buyer
listened to all the hype and thought that it must be a good
product. In short, they wer duped.
<> It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
<> computing. In a market economy, this kind of success for such an
<> extended period of time means that Windows must offer something to
<> Users.
Yes, endless upgrades and bug fixes. Hype, hype, and hype
were the key players here.
<> So my question is...Do you think that the 50 million who use windows
<> are stupid? or Do you think that they are forced to use windows
<> by some mind control device in Redmond.
Stupid, for the most part. Well, stupid is kinda strong --
let's say uninformed and naive.
<> 3. Bill Gates is not the Anti-Christ. He is not even a lower ranking
Yes he is! Have you seen where they converted the product
names and such to binary and it came out 666? :-)
<> lackey of the Devil. He is a succesful buisnessman. If Bill Gates
<> ran Commedore instead of Ali, Amiga would be the industry standard.
Very, very true. He knoes how to market things, this is
quite different than saying he knows how to make great
software. Yes, MS does have some very good products, but
Windblows sucks, plain and simple.
<> 4. Nobody forces people to run windows. They use windows and Dos because
<> it is useful.
Hmmm...
<> 5. Microsoft and Bill Gates have no impact on the Amiga.
Well, if they weren't so damned powerful then the Amiga and
Macs would have a better foothold in the computer market.
So, you could say that they have an indirect impact.
<> 6. When Windows 95 ships in August, it will imediatly be packed onto
<> 14 million computer (according to US News and World Report).
So, does this make it wonderful? Look at Windslows 3.x??
<> The reason is not because Bill Gates is blackmailing the computer
<> makers.
No, he just wants to run the whole world! Shades of someone
we all know and love from a bygone era (circa 193x).
<> The reason is beacuse users want Win95. It will be a significant
<> advance of windows 3.1.
They want it, for the most part, because they're told that
they want it.
<> 7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
<> all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs. Gates provided a
<> way for an extreamly popular hardware (x86) to be used by anybody.
<> 8. All the complaining about Micosoft and Gates in this group just makes
<> the posters sound jealous. They can't believe that an "inferior"
<> product is more successful than their precious Amiga.
You're right! It makes me sick to think of what the
computing industry could be today if the Amiga had had the
influx of such huge amounts of cash, R&D, and advertising
like the clones have had over the years. Perfectly stated,
the clones are inferior when compared to the basic design
philosophy of the Amiga and its OS.
<> Well wake up and smell the coffee. Windows in not an "inferior"
<> product. Windows users are not pathetic sheep following Bill Gates.
This is your opinion -- sounds like you may be one of the
"sheep" and just don't realize it.
<> Windows is a useful program that sets an industry standard.
A standard of what? Crashing? If this is the end-all, be-all
standard, then you should be afraid -- very afraid!
<> If you think about it, Which is more likely...That 50 Mil windows
<> users are wrong or that 1 Mil Amiga users are wrong.
50 million Windows users. I'm sure many parallels could be
drawn to show where the minority was right and the majority
was wrong in other areas. Anyone?
<> 9. Microsoft and Intel are two different comopanies. Intel makes
<> hardware and nothing else. Microsoft makes software and a couple of
<> periferals. There is no more collution between the two than between
<> the makers of staples and paper.
Questionable.
<> 10. And finally..To all those who suggest other OS's as the solution.
<> Your suggestion of OS2 and Liunix prove that other choices exist.
<>
<> I could use Liunix ( I am using AIX to post this) and I could use
<> OS2 but I choose to use Windows. Not because I am stupid or
<> Ignorant, but because I actually find it the most usefull, especially
<> in terms of compatibility.
Have you seen an Amiga or are you just pretending that you
have?
<> Flames are welcome, but please respond to the e-mail address below. I
<> hate the unix mail program. or better yet post a follow up to this
<> article.
Here it is -- I wasn't about to let this one pass me by. :-)
--
---------------------------------------------------
Bill ////\ wn...@epix.net
Near ////\\\ A2000/030@50/Picasso II/Supra V.34
//// \\\\ Workbench 3.1_____ __ _
\\\\ ////___\\\\ //// |\ /| | / \ / \
\\\\///-----\\\\/// | \/ | | | __ /---\
\\\\/ \\\\/ | | __|__ \__/ / \
Contributing Editor @ Amiga Report Magazine
---------------------------------------------------
Inconnu
(1) a Commodore 64
(2) an Amiga 500 (3 MB RAM)
(3) Mac classic (4 MB RAM)
(4) PowerMac 6100/66 (16 MB RAM)
(5) Pentium 120 (16 MB RAM)
And I'll tell you what:: THEY ALL CRASH!
_especially_ the Amiga (I don't know how many SOFTWARE GURU errors I'd get
if I attempted to multitask). The Mac classic was fairly stable, but the
PowerMac crashes with the big boys. The P120 is fine as long as you stay
in DOS or Linux, but in Windows 3.x is worse than the Amiga.. I guess my
only "really" stable machine is the C64 (and I just bought a used 1541 on
Tuesday, so it's up and running! ;)
The problem lies in the fact that these operating systems weren't designed for
multitasking, and now we wish to add it. NT is in the fortunate position of
having been designed from the ground up to multitask--hence, it's more
reliable. Same with Linux. The only problem with these "stable" OSs is the
lack of mainstream software.
As for the Amiga... well, it was designed to multitask and was very good at
it.. Anyone want to venture as to why it crashes so much??
--
-INK <kell...@isuux.isu.edu>
Idaho State University
Rune Moberg
e902...@stud1.tuwien.ac.at (e9026329) wrote:
> In article <ECZulq9V...@oslonett.no> mobe...@oslonett.no (Rune Moberg) writes:
> >only receive mail from people he have mailed before. I.e. he will not notice
Well, he might be on the internet every day, but that doesn't necessarily
mean that he reads email. Specially not when certain psychos are threatening
to overload his mailbox...
Rune Moberg
mdl...@ultranet.com (Michael Lewis) wrote:
> If you want to do something about M$, write better apps than they do for
> OTHER OPERATING systems, sell them at prices that are competitive with M$
> products, and HYPE THEM TO DEATH. Its that simple. Whether this is
> possible or not remains to be seen.
This I can agree with.
Rune Moberg
> >the latest MS apps.
> How can they?
>
> eg. the Winword format is (better sit down) _COMPANY CONFIDENTAL_!!! Yeah, you
> can license it from M$ but guess how much they would make you pay if you came
> up to them and told them, hey I want a license for winword format, please so I
> can compete with you...
>
> So much for M$ producing "open standards" as some people always claim...
The Winword format might be confidential (I honestly don't know), but it
isn't the point. We're more or less (was) debating operating systems here
and MS official format is RTF (Rich Text Format). A RTF editor component
is present in Win95 (and NT 3.51) and is available to everyone making Win32
apps.
Not to forget that there is a public domain Word 6.0 *viewer* available.
Look for "WORDVU" or something like that on their ftp site. The viewer will
allow you to watch, print and copy text from a Winword 6.0 document.
William Near
<> ThinkTank wrote:
<> : Most people out there still think Micro$oft is the most innovative,
<> : highest quality software company in the whole computing industry.
<> Actually they find Bill's software useful and inexpensive, and they find
<> his personal history interesting.
<> The failure of linux and OS/2 is that ordinary users do not see the
<> software they want on these platforms at a low cost. If you want to end
So you're saying that top-of-the-line Windows apps are
cheap? Where do you shop?
William Near
<> Ha! I'm in the most (un?)fortunate position of having owned
<> (1) a Commodore 64
<> (2) an Amiga 500 (3 MB RAM)
<> (3) Mac classic (4 MB RAM)
<> (4) PowerMac 6100/66 (16 MB RAM)
<> (5) Pentium 120 (16 MB RAM)
<> And I'll tell you what:: THEY ALL CRASH!
<> _especially_ the Amiga (I don't know how many SOFTWARE GURU errors I'd get
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, really? What version of Workbench do you use and how
long have you really used the Amiga? I don't mean casual
games playing, either. :-)
<> if I attempted to multitask). The Mac classic was fairly stable, but the
<> PowerMac crashes with the big boys. The P120 is fine as long as you stay
<> in DOS or Linux, but in Windows 3.x is worse than the Amiga.. I guess my
<> only "really" stable machine is the C64 (and I just bought a used 1541 on
<> Tuesday, so it's up and running! ;)
<> The problem lies in the fact that these operating systems weren't designed for
<> multitasking, and now we wish to add it. NT is in the fortunate position of
<> having been designed from the ground up to multitask--hence, it's more
<> reliable. Same with Linux. The only problem with these "stable" OSs is the
<> lack of mainstream software.
<> As for the Amiga... well, it was designed to multitask and was very good at
<> it.. Anyone want to venture as to why it crashes so much??
You're either running some stupid software or patches to the
system that aren't written correctly, or you don't know what
you're doing. Which is it? This isn't a flame, just curious.
barryn on BIX
: The idea that MS programmers, working at MS would be using OS/2 to develop
: on is pure fantasy. The MS programmers all develop on NT, BTW.
No, Mr. Bee. Some use OS/2, while others use NT, Win 3.x, or Win 9x. A
few use Unix, to support obscure M/S products, while others use Macintoshes.
Also note that Microsoft still supports and sells LAN Manager. Microsoft
conveniently puts a copy of OS/2 in the LAN Manager box for its customers.
Barry Nance
author of "Using OS/2 Warp", "Introduction to Networking",
"Client/Server LAN Programming", "Networking Windows for Workgroups",
and "Connecting with LAN Server". BYTE Magazine Contributing Editor.
Joseph T. Malloy
[snip]
>Also note that Microsoft still supports and sells LAN Manager. Microsoft
>conveniently puts a copy of OS/2 in the LAN Manager box for its customers.
Which version of ostwo do they include with LAN Manager, Barry?
Eric M. Hopper
> In article <3rql9a$j...@mercury.galstar.com>, ich...@star89.galstar.com
> (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
>> Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot
>> hate microsoft? I run no Windoze or any other M$ sleazeware and am
>> pretty happy with my linux system. At least, it is secure and runs
>> without crashes for weeks.
> What's your point?
> I run Windows NT, it's secure and runs without crashes (period). *And*
> it lets me run my favorite apps.
Do you actually leave it up for weeks? Does it handle Internet mail
for you? Can people log on remotely to read mail? Have you ever tried to
crash it? Do you support several users at once on your system? Can they
run an app with a UI on your machine while they're not at the console?
I do all of these things. I run UnixWare. It works fantastically
well, and its' relatively secure.
My point is that you probably do very few of things, if any. The
main reason why is that you either can't, or it's bloody difficult on NT.
I have also tried to crash my system. I've even succeeded a couple
of times, but I had to try REALLY hard. When I first installed it, I had a
bad motherboard that caused memory to be trashed when you accessed the video
card. The only thing I ever had crash on UNIX was my X server. Everything
else ran just fine. When I ran Windows 3.1, everything crashed, and crashed
VERY hard.
Oh, the only time my X server has ever crashed is when I had the
motherboard problem.
Not only that, but you can't say anything about security until you
have a lot of users using your system. Everybody thinks NetWare is secure.
I bet if NetWare were accessible from the Internet, people would find TONS
of security holes in it.
--
--Me (Eric Hopper)
Fare well, wherever you fare, and may your aeries receive you at your
journey's end.
--J.R.R. Tolkien 'The Hobbit'
Eric M. Hopper
> In article <Pine.SV4.3.91.95061...@wco.com>, Xavier
> Messersmith <xcal...@wco.com> wrote:
>> | __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD | | ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ |
>> The Amiga Community Lives! |
> I wouldn't call a 40MB disk "living".
> In fact, when available hard disk space drops below 40MB, one should
> invest in a new disk ASAP!
Only if you run bloated Microsoft applications. Otherwise, 40MB
is a lot! :-)
Bruce C Lohr
>This is without a doubt the most pathetic thread that this group has
>started since I started reading this group a year ago.
>
>I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But I must respond.
>
>1. It is MICROSOFT....not Micro$oft or Microsloth or Micromonopoly.
Ah... what's in a name, anyway? We all know who we're referring to.
Personally, I rather like Microshaft. :)
>2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
> nationwide. It is used everyday by buisnesses, home users, kids
> elderly, middleaged, government, and any other group you can name.
>
> It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
> computing. In a market economy, this kind of success for such an
> extended period of time means that Windows must offer something to
> Users.
>
> So my question is...Do you think that the 50 million who use windows
> are stupid? or Do you think that they are forced to use windows
> by some mind control device in Redmond.
Actually, stupid isn't quite the word. "Ignorant" is more proper. And
yes, they are under a mind control device... it's called "Marketing".
You see... when you put the two together (ignorance and marketing),
situations like this arise. Microshaft popularized Winblows through
marketing hype aimed at the ignorant- those people who don't really know
enough about operating systems to make an edu-micated choice. The ratio
of ignorant people to people who actually know computers is quite high.
Thus, the user base of Winblows is much higher than any other operating
system (running on any machine). Now, since the user base of Winblows is
so high, people who know better are fucked and forced into using Winblows
because no good apps are available for better operating systems... since
software writers only write software for the largest base. THIS is the
problem with Microshaft.
If Winblows actually was a decent operating system, i'd have no problem
with it. But if YOU believe that Microshaft Winblows is running on 50
million machines because it's the best OS out there, then you're just
another one of the sheep. BAA-AA-AA-AA
>3. Bill Gates is not the Anti-Christ. He is not even a lower ranking
> lackey of the Devil. He is a succesful buisnessman. If Bill Gates
> ran Commedore instead of Ali, Amiga would be the industry standard.
His business ethics are questionable. 'Nuff said.
>4. Nobody forces people to run windows. They use windows and Dos because
> it is useful.
Bullshit. Read #2 again.
>5. Microsoft and Bill Gates have no impact on the Amiga.
More bullshit. Microshaft and Bill Gates have had an impact on *every*
computer and operating system aimed at the consumer and business markets.
You're a fool if you believe otherwise.
>6. When Windows 95 ships in August, it will imediatly be packed onto
> 14 million computer (according to US News and World Report).
>
> The reason is not because Bill Gates is blackmailing the computer makers.
> The reason is beacuse users want Win95. It will be a significant
> advance of windows 3.1.
This may or may not be the case. Microshaft is under scrutiny by the US
government on it's bundling policies. There may be some antitrust issues
here. It's a wait-and-see thing at this point.
At any rate, why do people want Win95? Because they finally want to have
an operating system that is as good as other OS's that have been around
for 10 years or more.
>7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
> all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs. Gates provided a
> way for an extreamly popular hardware (x86) to be used by anybody.
No, what Bill Gates has done is kept the computer industry stuck in the
mud with it's wheels spinning for years. It's a *fact* that the computer
industry is at least 5 years behind what it should be because of the
Winblows fiasco.
>8. All the complaining about Micosoft and Gates in this group just makes
> the posters sound jealous. They can't believe that an "inferior"
> product is more successful than their precious Amiga.
>
> Well wake up and smell the coffee. Windows in not an "inferior"
> product. Windows users are not pathetic sheep following Bill Gates.
> Windows is a useful program that sets an industry standard.
>
> If you think about it, Which is more likely...That 50 Mil windows
> users are wrong or that 1 Mil Amiga users are wrong.
Which is more likely... that the entire world, in the 15th century,
believed that the earth was flat and were wrong... or that Columbus was
wrong?
It has nothing to do with jealousy, John, its just that many of us who
know computers and enjoy working with them are sick of the ignorance, and
are sick of having to use Winblows because the majority of computer users
in the world don't know better, and really do hold a grudge against
Microshaft because they are personally responsible for stifling software
and hardware advancement for many years.
>9. Microsoft and Intel are two different comopanies. Intel makes
> hardware and nothing else. Microsoft makes software and a couple of
> periferals. There is no more collution between the two than between
> the makers of staples and paper.
Huh? Who said they were the same company??
>10. And finally..To all those who suggest other OS's as the solution.
> Your suggestion of OS2 and Liunix prove that other choices exist.
>
> I could use Liunix ( I am using AIX to post this) and I could use
> OS2 but I choose to use Windows. Not because I am stupid or
> Ignorant, but because I actually find it the most usefull, especially
> in terms of compatibility.
Trust me, you are ignorant. You're so ignorant, that you can't even see
your own ignorance.
:)
But it's not your fault - blame Microshaft.
==================================
lohr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
==================================
FINGER THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
: John sez:
: >This is without a doubt the most pathetic thread that this group has
: >started since I started reading this group a year ago.
: >
: >I don't know whether to laugh or cry. But I must respond.
: >
: >1. It is MICROSOFT....not Micro$oft or Microsloth or Micromonopoly.
: Ah... what's in a name, anyway? We all know who we're referring to.
: Personally, I rather like Microshaft. :)
Microshaft... that sounds catchy--mind if I use it?
[Snip]
: >4. Nobody forces people to run windows. They use windows and Dos because
: > it is useful.
: Bullshit. Read #2 again.
I can vouch for that. I am one of the many who are forced to use winblows.
I do not like that piece of shit, however my school has replaced just
about every terminal with a machine running winblows (with no way out
save the crippled dos shell) so I have no choice but to use those
machines if I wish to use the computers at all. In other words I don't
use winblows because it's useful. I use LINUX because it's useful.
I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
on their o/s.
: ==================================
: lohr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
: ==================================
--
*****************************************************************************
* This QUALITY Post Has Been Brought To You By *
* SPASMO, The Legendary Spasmic Legend *
*****************************************************************************
Karl L. Barrus
>Personally, I rather like Microshaft. :)
Ah yes, cutesy name variations. I like "eunuchs" myself.
>Microshaft popularized Winblows through
>marketing hype aimed at the ignorant- those people who don't really know
>enough about operating systems to make an edu-micated choice.
??. They popularized Windows through providing apps people actually want to
run. Developers and users vote with their feet in the real world, not the
socialist fantasy land you are in. Maybe there aren't any good apps for
better operating systems because there isn't as much money to be made.
--
Karl L. Barrus
<klba...@infocom.net>
http://www.infocom.net/~klbarrus/descent.html
Karl L. Barrus
>I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
>on their o/s.
Uh huh, Linux seems optimized for providing internet access, which is cool if
you are, for example, a student and can jack off all day reading usenet, but
when it comes down to doing some actual work with real apps... Windows wins.
Bruce C Lohr
>>I use LINUX because it's useful.
>>I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
>>on their o/s.
>
>Uh huh, Linux seems optimized for providing internet access, which is
>cool if
>you are, for example, a student and can jack off all day reading usenet, but
>when it comes down to doing some actual work with real apps... Windows wins.
Windows wins. Windows wins what? The fact that it has the better
applications? You seem to have missed the entire point of the argument.
Also, Linux is not "optimized" for internet usage, tcp/ip networking is
*inherent* in it's design... it's unix for crissakes. It's far more
than just internet access.
>--
>Karl L. Barrus
><klba...@infocom.net>
>http://www.infocom.net/~klbarrus/descent.html
========================
lohr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
============================
Bruce C Lohr
>>Ah... what's in a name, anyway? We all know who we're referring to.
>>Personally, I rather like Microshaft. :)
>Ah yes, cutesy name variations. I like "eunuchs" myself.
Hmm... I wasn't thinking "cutesy"... i was thinking more along the lines of
"bend over and grab the handles..."
>>Microshaft popularized Winblows through
>>marketing hype aimed at the ignorant- those people who don't really know
>>enough about operating systems to make an edu-micated choice.
>??. They popularized Windows through providing apps people actually want to
>run. Developers and users vote with their feet in the real world, not the
>socialist fantasy land you are in. Maybe there aren't any good apps for
>better operating systems because there isn't as much money to be made.
Very good, Karl. There isn't as much money to be made. I'm impressed.
Let's go another step further. Now, >why< isn't there as much money to be
made? Because Microfuck has such a jackoff-tight squeeze around the balls
of the users and developers. The users have to use Winblows because they
don't have any choice- the applications they need to run only
appear on the piece of shit. The developers have to develop for
it because everyone uses it (for the previous reason) and it's the only
way they can make a living. Catch-22. Now, you're telling *ME* that
*I'M* living in a socialist fantasy land?
It's a sickening situation, it's not right, and something has to be done
about it... which is the point of the topic.
>--
>Karl L. Barrus
><klba...@infocom.net>
>http://www.infocom.net/~klbarrus/descent.html
===========================
lohr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
===========================
wir...@mhv.net
In article <aaron_sommer-1...@lum.herringn.com>,
<aaron_...@herringn.com> writes:
> Path:
mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwfocus1.wa.com!news1.halcyon.com!lum.herringn.com!
user
> From: aaron_...@herringn.com (Aaron Sommer)
> Newsgroups:
comp.sys.powerpc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advoc
acy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.intel,alt.2600,alt.destroy.microsoft
> Subject: Apple?
> Date: 16 Jun 1995 22:40:29 GMT
> Organization: Herring Newman
> Lines: 35
> Distribution: world
> Message-ID: <aaron_sommer-1...@lum.herringn.com>
> References: <3rps76$e...@osiris.wu-wien.ac.at> <3rqk65$i...@news3.digex.net>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: lum.herringn.com
> X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b22.0+
> Xref: mhv.net comp.sys.powerpc:49873 comp.os.linux.advocacy:12228
comp.sys.mac.advocacy:54807 comp.os.os2.advocacy:125534
comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:124296 comp.sys.intel:48402 alt.2600:93682
alt.destroy.microsoft:1695
>
>
> > You seem to think that only MS is greedy and monopolistic, and yes they
are,
> > however, let's take a look at Apple. Apple is the only company that was
> > allowed to make Mac's for 11(?) years, just now they're starting to allow
Mac
> > clones. Don't forget that Apple is the only company allowed to make an
> OS for
> > the Mac, aside from the freeware Linux for Mac. So who's more greedy? MS
or
> > Apple? I'd say it was Apple, and Apple's gamble, thankfully, backfired,
> > that's not to say that I don't like Mac's, I just don't like the idea
> that one
> > computer company has the total monopoly on it. Just look to the
competition
> > in the IBM compatible computer industry. No we don't have much
> competition in
> > the OS area, but I think that's good, in a way. We need a standard OS
> so that
> > we can easily share files and programs and, with the exception of IBM Unix
> > OS's, all the popular IBM OS's are MS compatible and because there is some
> > DOS and Windows don't have.
> >
> > If this was 12 years ago, you'd be crying that you can't trade your Apple 2
> > programs with your friends because they use Atari's or Commodores. At
least
> > no there's a standard for the majority of PC's and that's MS DOS/Windows.
> >
> > Paul Probus
> > pro...@cnj.digex.net
>
> the last decade. Not so... I've been using them for the last decade, and
> I've been hearing "Apple's going out of business...", "They'll never
> last...", "Mac? you use a toy?...", "Why not get a _REAL_ computer?",
> "Macs are for morons", and "gee, isn't windows great?" for almost as long.
>
>
> Apple's been restricting who made Mac hardware, not who wrote software.
actually, I have a VERY old LASER 128 computer up in my attic ...I think the
computer is smashed up now but its still in the box...its from like 1983 or
something...comes with a whopping 128k RAM and is Apple compatible...but yeah,
i haven't seen any other clones since then :)
Steve Kanefsky
>rks...@eos.ncsu.edu (Ravi Krishna Swamy) writes:
>
>>I don't think Linux for the Mac is getting anywhere. Linux and X have
>>already been ported to the M68k but it runs on Amigas and Atari Falcons.
>>the Mac port is supposedly not going anywhere because of lack of
>>hardware documentation from Apple. The PowerPC port is starting back
>>up again but it'll probably be for CHRP or is that CRHP machines
>>and not the current PowerMacs.
>
>That is absolute SHIT. Just go into any bookstore and buy a copy of Inside
>Mac and you'll have all of the information you need.
You're confused. Inside Mac documents how to write programs that run on
top of the MacOS, not how to write an OS that sits on top of Mac hardware.
--
Steve Kanefsky
RL...@news.delphi.com
RL> innovative, highest quality software company in the whole
RL> computing industry. They love Bill Gates. Worst of all, they
RL> think that everyone agrees on this. Those people don't normally
RL> read any computer related newsgroups.
Question: can you name a software company that does better than
Microsoft ..... and I think you can write all you want about Bill Gates
and microsoft but I don't think your hurting them at all....
Sugimoto
: Nachtigall <jnac...@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
: >2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
: > nationwide.
So? Millions of Americans suffer from coronary artery disease, yet that
doesn't make it a Good Thing<tm>.
: >It is used everyday by buisnesses, home users, kids
: > elderly, middleaged, government, and any other group you can name.
: >
: > It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
: > computing.
Point of order: Windows is *not* an operating system. It is an operating
ENVIRONMENT, and not a very good one at that. DOS is not an operating
system - it is a simple set of hardware interrupt calls.
: That depends on how you define successful. It certainly has sold a lot
: of copies, but most of those were sold bundled with hardware. It would be
: interesting to know how many fewer copies would have sold had people been
: given a several choices of what came preloaded on their PC's.
I agree. I don't know anyone who actually went to the store, plunked down
money, and said "gimme Windows 3.1."
: > So my question is...Do you think that the 50 million who use windows
: > are stupid?
: Maybe not really stupid, but a lot of them are pretty much ignorant
: when it comes to computers. A lot of them just plain have no choice
: because it is forced on them by the circumstances.
That's a good way of putting it. (See above.)
: >4. Nobody forces people to run windows.
: Hah. That's simply not true in many cases.
swdev is absolutely right.
Hardware manufacturers force people to run it - because they came
pre-installed on everyone's computer.
Software manufacturers force people to run it - because they don't write
applications for other platforms. (I'm hanging onto Windows because of
ONE [count it, ONE] application that I can't get for OS/2 yet, and that's
Word Perfect for Windows. I'm moving to SmartSuite/Ami Pro very, very soon.)
Either way, Microsoft preys on the lazyness of people and their
reluctance to go out and buy something else. That's the main reason why
people haven't switched - because they're either a) lazy; b) not
knowledgeble enough; c) all of the above.
: >6. When Windows 95 ships in August, it will imediatly be packed onto
: > 14 million computer (according to US News and World Report).
See? That's what I mean by "no choice." Manufacturers will quit loading
Win3.1 and DOS and will start loading Win96.
: > The reason is beacuse users want Win95. It will be a significant
: > advance of windows 3.1.
: It doesn't take much to be a significant improvement on Windoze 3.1.
Deleting it comes prominantly to mind...
: >7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
: > all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs.
AHNK. Steven Jobs could be credited with starting the PC revolution. If
he hadn't done that, Gates wouldn't have a job and a multi-billion dollar
empire right now.
About the only neat thing Gates did was to pull off some amazing
marketing stunts, and THAT'S IT. Technically, a lot of Microsoft products
aren't all that great. I can't STAND Windows 3.1, but I have to use it,
so I got Norton Desktop for Windows. Hm. I wonder why that one sold so well..
: >8. All the complaining about Micosoft and Gates in this group just makes
: > the posters sound jealous. They can't believe that an "inferior"
: > product is more successful than their precious Amiga.
: >
: > Well wake up and smell the coffee. Windows in not an "inferior"
: > product.
Sure it is. Windows 3.1 is inferior to OS/2. Windows 3.1 is inferior to
my brain. Windows 3.1 is inferior to my filing cabinet (which says
wonders for my filing system).
--
Mike "Phloem" Sugimoto sugi...@cuug.ab.ca //www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~sugimotl
"the task of thinking is based upon selection and weeding out; remembering
everything is weirdly similar to forgetting everything." -gary wolf
GAT/MD/S/T, ER Resident<tm>, Team OS/2, Dreamer, Shaper, Singer, Maker
Bernd Bernie Meyer
>In article <Pine.SV4.3.91.95061...@wco.com>,
>Xavier Messersmith <xcal...@wco.com> wrote:
>> | __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD |
>> | ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ | The Amiga Community Lives! |
>I wouldn't call a 40MB disk "living".
>In fact, when available hard disk space drops below 40MB, one should
>invest in a new disk ASAP!
Just thinking that this afternoon, I had 25M of _used_ swap space --- and
that wasn't due to bloat programs, but rather to me running 24 image
processing jobs in parallel. At that moment, I thought back to the day I
bought my first floppy drive, which held an amazing 80k per disk. Yep,
that's eighty, and it was sooooo much.
Bernie
P.S.: BTW, my machine wasn't thrashing. I got around 98% cpu usage for the
image processing.
--
==============================================================================
Anybody out there who knows how to connect a Wyse terminal keyboard to a PC
_without_ the terminal in between? Current keyboard lses chracters evr so
oftn............. Getng wrs al te im. Hp!
Bernd Bernie Meyer
[Bill Gates]
>No, he just wants to run the whole world! Shades of someone
>we all know and love from a bygone era (circa 193x).
And another tasteless comment....
Bernie
Noah Monsey
>Any other ideas?
Yes, one idea. Please stop cross posting this bullshit in
to all of these newsgroups. The free market will decide
which companies succeed in todays market.
This article was originally posted in to the following
usenet news groups.
comp.sys.intel,
comp.sys.powerpc,
comp.os.linux.advocacy,
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,
comp.os.os2.advocacy,
comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,
comp.sys.intel,alt.2600,
alt.destroy.microsoft
========= ========= ========= ========= =========
Noah Monsey no...@indirect.com
========= ========= ========= ========= =========
The only dumb question is the one that you don't ask.
========= ========= ========= ========= =========
Oracle Master Database Administration, April 1992
Oracle Master Application Development, April 1992
========= ========= ========= ========= =========
Chad Irby
: Rune Moberg <mobe...@oslonett.no> wrote:
: >In fact, when available hard disk space drops below 40MB, one should
: >invest in a new disk ASAP!
: Your true colors are revealed. You definetly come from the M$ world,
: where do-nothing apps take up 30 megs of disk space. CONSUME CONSUME
: CONSUME. I guess after running hogs you get that way.
I guess you don't do much graphics work, then. In a *slow* session, with
smaller files, I can burn up ten megs of disk space in a matter of minutes.
In a modern computer, 40 megs is a *tiny* amount of free space. On a
good day, I download four to ten megs of compressed files (like a big
chunk of the Project Gutenberg files), and when uncompressed, those files
get *big*.
And those are just *text* files. One good JPEG, converted to PICT, RGB,
or CMYK can be in the five to ten megabyte range.
--
Chad Irby / My greatest fear: that future generations will,
ci...@gate.net / for some reason, refer to me as an "optimist."
Rune Moberg
> > (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
> >> Hm, are you assuming that people with a job and a girlfriend cannot
> >> hate microsoft? I run no Windoze or any other M$ sleazeware and am
> >> pretty happy with my linux system. At least, it is secure and runs
> >> without crashes for weeks.
> > What's your point?
> > I run Windows NT, it's secure and runs without crashes (period). *And*
> > it lets me run my favorite apps.
> Do you actually leave it up for weeks? Does it handle Internet mail
We have two machines running NT here. One is mine and I prefer to turn it
off every evening. The other is only taken down for hardware upgrades
and lately I've started to install NT Server on it, and thus have switched
between NT Workstation and Server alot.
But basically, yeah, sure it's up for months, and is also used as a
workstation. I've tried every trick in the book, but it can only be hung
by the means of a faulty device driver (A device driver can't mess with
another driver, but NT chooses to shut down in case it was an important
driver).
The following will hang DOS, Win95 and a DOS window in NT (which you can
close without problem):
C:\debug
-f 0:0 L FFFF 0
or
-o 21 ff
So, yeah, I've tried to hang it. Didn't succeed.
> for you? Can people log on remotely to read mail? Have you ever tried to
It can serve as a postoffice. No support for UNIX mail I think, it might
be available thirdparty or in an upcoming release of MS Exchange.
> crash it? Do you support several users at once on your system? Can they
> run an app with a UI on your machine while they're not at the console?
Not in the UNIX sense... It acts mostly as a file server, anything else
and you have to write your own services. UNIX solves yesterdays problems,
I agree.
> I do all of these things. I run UnixWare. It works fantastically
> well, and its' relatively secure.
>
> Not only that, but you can't say anything about security until you
> have a lot of users using your system. Everybody thinks NetWare is secure.
> I bet if NetWare were accessible from the Internet, people would find TONS
> of security holes in it.
Netware 3.1x is especially unsecure, but that has nothing to do with NT.
One particular feature of NT is scrambled passwords. How do UNIX transfer
passwords when you log in? Last time I checked, it was clear text... Another
thing that bothers me is why the password/user list is commonly accessible.
On all the UNIX systems I've seen, it's located under /etc. Why don't they
stop users from accessing it?
Case in point: Last year I got myself an additional account at the schools
UNIX server. How I did that? Well, it was late one evening, and I was paged
by another person logged in. I talked to him some, and then he claimed he
wasn't the person supposed to have the account at all. He had retrieved
the password list, and he could give me another user account if I needed one!
(I mentioned this to the sys admin, but the school term was almost over,
so he didn't bother to tighten security)
You need physical access (and a screwdriver) to the machine running NT,
if you want access to confidential data.
Walter Tautz
: >I use LINUX because it's useful.
: >on their o/s.
: Uh huh, Linux seems optimized for providing internet access, which is cool if
: you are, for example, a student and can jack off all day reading usenet, but
: when it comes down to doing some actual work with real apps... Windows wins.
You're obviously a first class wanker.
: --
Nick Hiams
> > If they keep this shit up, they're going to go down, and we won't have to
> > do anything to help.
> So, you do not protest against Apple then? For making machines that no-one
> are allowed to clone (for a reasonable price)? Or because they release
> a PowerPC based machine that doesn't resemble IBM's PowerPC machine at
> all? Or the way they neglect PCI now, but make it more and more standard
> on later models?
May I enquire the names of companies allowed to make clone OSs based on
the code used for Micro$oft's OSs [namely WinDoZe and M$-DO$] at *any*
cost? This appears to be your complaint against Apple, that they expect
a rival manufacturer to pay fair contribution for 15 year's development
costs on a product they licence.
Or maybe they should just give away software like Micro$oft do?
[Micro$oft Office for Mac....UK price ~ 300 pounds ie ~ $450 ].
> You're being screwed by Apple, Microsoft is just trying to come up with
> a better alternative for a reasonable price.
I'd rather be screwed by Cinderella than the the Ugly Sister :*)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| E-mail > ol...@spuddy.mew.co.uk !!!!! Oleum: Fuming sulphuric acid. |
| This is a FREE e-mail service <\O-O/> Burns you without flames |
| provided by Sweh....Thanx Sweh! \_-_/ oleum:flames you without burns.|
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny B. Goode
Nick Hiams <ol...@spuddy.mew.co.uk> wrote:
>May I enquire the names of companies allowed to make clone OSs based on
>the code used for Micro$oft's OSs [namely WinDoZe and M$-DO$] at *any*
>cost? This appears to be your complaint against Apple, that they expect
>a rival manufacturer to pay fair contribution for 15 year's development
>costs on a product they licence.
I think the point is that there is enough documentation for non-Apple
computers to write new OSes from *scratch*. Attempts of ports of
the free UN*X's to the Macintosh has not been so successful. The
Linux 68k port works pretty well with the Atari and Amiga, but
completely fails the Macintosh. The NetBSD people had more luck,
but that Macintosh port is light years behind the the PC one. This
is due to lack of information from Apple, because it is one of the
most greedy, capitalistic, closed companies around and it supports
the idea of a machine with no information. And I'm sure the
inconsistency of Apple hardware is a factor. All PC's are the
same, but the Apple hardware has subtle differences, for example,
keyboard handling is different on different Apple machines, even
though the machines have the same CPU, which makes OS programming
a nightmare.
At any rate, this is a hardware difference and not a software
difference. The PC hardware is completely open and there are no
patents and such involved. You don't need a ``license'' to
produce it, unlike Apple hardware. (Hmmm...The II stuff was
cloned by the companies, and was also much more open than the
Macintosh, so I guess this is a recent stance by Apple.)
Cheers, Terry Murphy
FINGER THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
: In article <PInulq9V...@oslonett.no>,
: Rune Moberg <mobe...@oslonett.no> wrote:
: >I wouldn't call a 40MB disk "living".
: >
: >In fact, when available hard disk space drops below 40MB, one should
: >invest in a new disk ASAP!
: Your true colors are revealed. You definetly come from the M$ world,
: where do-nothing apps take up 30 megs of disk space. CONSUME CONSUME
: CONSUME. I guess after running hogs you get that way.
There was a time when this wasn't true. Back before winblows was polluting
every known PC, you could survive quite comfortably on 10 megs. Programs
that did far more than any winblows app (and did it far more efficiently)
could often be run on 2 floppy diskettes. That's right, more functionality
than winblows apps, and you didn't even need a hard drive to run it! Programs
were lean and powerful. *Sigh* those days are gone now. You're right, now
you have second rate programs that don't do shit, that guzzle up megs upon
megs of hd space. It's truly pathetic.
: --
: To John Dillinger, and hope he is still alive. |Nesta Stubbs|
Paul S. Penrod
>Software Developers (sw...@worf.netins.net) wrote:
>
>: Nachtigall <jnac...@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>
>: >2. Windows 3.1 is currently installed on over 50 million computers
>: > nationwide.
>
>So? Millions of Americans suffer from coronary artery disease, yet that
>doesn't make it a Good Thing<tm>.
>
>: >It is used everyday by buisnesses, home users, kids
>: > elderly, middleaged, government, and any other group you can name.
>: >
>: > It is without a doubt the most successful OS in the history of
>: > computing.
>
>Point of order: Windows is *not* an operating system. It is an operating
>ENVIRONMENT, and not a very good one at that. DOS is not an operating
>system - it is a simple set of hardware interrupt calls.
More to the point: DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus, while
Windows is a colorful file system virus... :-) (couldn't resist)...
...Paul
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there
is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof"
-- John Kenneth Galbraith
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Kephart
[long, badly formatted article quotes deleted]
> >Apple's been restricting who made Mac hardware, not who wrote software.
> And thats why Macintosh hardware will be reliable... You dont have to
> worry about third party companies coming in, messing everything up,
> programs that will only work on "XX" clone, etc... I support Apple for
> doing so. I have been using Macs for 11 years (Since System 1.1g) and
> never had a hardware related problem, unlike some of these IBM Clones I
> have. Apple has done a good job, and deserves a round of applauses.
If you are wondering about the future of Apple, and IBM/Apple/Motorola, read:
http://www.motorola.com/SPS/PowerPC/papers/hrp_paper/hrp_top.html
It defines the plans for the standard Apple/IBM/Motorola platform, and the
requirements for clones of this platform. OS's avail should be (a non-ROM
based) MacOS, Solaris, AIX, and Window's NT right now.
Anyone know Intel's plans in response to this move to a Hardware Reference
Platform?
-t
Rune Moberg
cosc...@Bayou.UH.EDU (FINGER THIS!!!!!!!!!!!) wrote:
> Nesta Stubbs (ne...@MCS.COM) wrote:
> : In article <PInulq9V...@oslonett.no>,
> : Rune Moberg <mobe...@oslonett.no> wrote:
> : >I wouldn't call a 40MB disk "living".
> : where do-nothing apps take up 30 megs of disk space. CONSUME CONSUME
> every known PC, you could survive quite comfortably on 10 megs. Programs
> that did far more than any winblows app (and did it far more efficiently)
Yeah, and they didn't have fancy menus, they looked like shit and you
could bet that they did not co-operate with any other apps you might force
yourself to use. Sure, those were the times!
Not! Lucky for us, most of those apps have become confined to UNIX
environments and other non-progress operating systems.
Applications today are huge, because they have huge clipart library, examples,
fonts, bitmaps and whatever might increase your productivity. Most people
have become more productive now, atleast they have with the help of Windows.
Max Bell
Johnny B. Goode <blac...@sashimi.wwa.com> wrote:
[ . . .]
>The PC hardware is completely open and there are no
>patents and such involved. You don't need a ``license'' to
>produce it, unlike Apple hardware. (Hmmm...The II stuff was
>cloned by the companies, and was also much more open than the
>Macintosh, so I guess this is a recent stance by Apple.)
The competition in the PC hardware business and the resulting lower prices and
higher sales has greatly helped Intel and (indirectly) Microsoft. It is too
bad that Apple is overly protective of their hardware interface details. It is
the unique software interface that makes Macintoshes popular with their current
user base. Allowing the making of Mac clones might lead to an eventual
down-sizing of their hardware division, but the resulting lower-cost clone
sales would increase their sales of MacOS (most clone buyers are still going to
be MacOS users) and applications. It would also obviously benefit Motorola.
The loss of OS share to alternatives like Linux would be minimal, as it is for
Microsoft.
Copyright 1995 Max Bell. License for the Microsoft Network to distribute this
text for $100,000 U.S. dollars per copy is hereby granted. All other use of
this text by the Microsoft Network, including storing, relaying, or reuse is
expressly prohibited. Distribution by the Microsoft Network indicates full
acceptance of the licensing terms.
--
+----------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
| /\ /\/ Max Bell (mb...@europa.com) | BSD Forever, NT Never! |
| / \/ /\ http://www.europa.com/~mbell | X uber alles! |
+----------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
Joe Sloan
Karl L. Barrus <klba...@infocom.net> wrote:
>>I use LINUX because it's useful.
>>I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
>>on their o/s.
>
>Uh huh, Linux seems optimized for providing internet access, which is cool if
>you are, for example, a student and can jack off all day reading usenet, but
>when it comes down to doing some actual work with real apps... Windows wins.
Well, let's test the validity of your statement - I am running several
vital programs on my linux machine which are not even remotely possible
under windoze.
* amd, the auto-mounter daemon
* apache httpd
* sendmail 8.6.12
* X11R6 - (and don't try to tell me that PeeCee "X servers" are the same!)
* ypbind - uses NIS
* pcnfsd network server
* lanman network server
* appletalk network server
* full incoming tcp/ip services (telnet, ftp, rlogin, finger, time, etc. etc)
* can run dos, windows, machintosh and UNIX programs concurrently...
Could you tell me again why I need to run windoze?
--
Joe Sloan j...@engr.ucr.edu http://dostoevsky.ucr.edu
Linux95 - Real Power NOW! "What do you want to wait for today?"
Redistribution of this message via the Microsoft Network is prohibited
Tom Vilot
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!) wrote:
> I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
> on their o/s.
Can we all please stop calling it an OS? It's a program that runs on an OS.
--
Go suck an egg, Microsoft.
Jason Robertson
Tom Vilot <m...@intac.com> wrote:
>In article <3rvoe5$7...@masala.cc.uh.edu>, cosc...@Bayou.UH.EDU (FINGER
>THIS!!!!!!!!!!!) wrote:
>
>> I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
>> on their o/s.
>
>Can we all please stop calling it an OS? It's a program that runs on an OS.
>
Not only that, but his point is either wrong or means nothing. I run Linux,
not Windows, but I must admit there are many more applications, and some good
ones, for Windows that for Linux. There are things you just can't do with
Linux. There are few multimedia tools, for example. There aren't any truly
high-quality image editing programs (like Photoshop 3.0) that I know of.
There are no really good WYSIWYG word processors yet (how is Xword coming
along, anyone?).
So if he means puttering around with Unix then yes, Linux is obviously better
than Windows. I personally think it's a great platform to program on, too.
But for real world applications Linux is no good yet.
--
What are the three best things in life? To crush the enemy, to see him driven
before you, and to hear the lamentations of his women. -Conan the Barbarian
..Counting the days until the first US government sponsored book burning!
Jason Robertson
Joe Sloan <j...@dostoevsky.ucr.edu> wrote:
>In article <3rvpht$2...@news.cais.com>,
>Karl L. Barrus <klba...@infocom.net> wrote:
>>>I use LINUX because it's useful.
>>>on their o/s.
>>
>>you are, for example, a student and can jack off all day reading usenet, but
>>when it comes down to doing some actual work with real apps... Windows wins.
>
>Well, let's test the validity of your statement - I am running several
>vital programs on my linux machine which are not even remotely possible
>under windoze.
>
>* amd, the auto-mounter daemon
>* apache httpd
>* sendmail 8.6.12
>* X11R6 - (and don't try to tell me that PeeCee "X servers" are the same!)
>* ypbind - uses NIS
>* pcnfsd network server
>* lanman network server
>* appletalk network server
>* full incoming tcp/ip services (telnet, ftp, rlogin, finger, time, etc. etc)
>* can run dos, windows, machintosh and UNIX programs concurrently...
>
>Could you tell me again why I need to run windoze?
>
You wouldn't _need_ a lot of these on a PC system. And all the incoming
tcp/ip services are very possible in Dos/Windows. And if you're running
Linux - No, you _can't_ run dos, windows, macintosh, and unix programs
concurrently with any practicality.
(If you're running a nice commercial Unix then you may well be able to, but
I strongly doubt it.)
And no, I don't even run Windows, I use Linux. I'm just arguing for the sake
of truthfulness.
Mike Cohen
Well, Nirvana sells more records than Pavarotti, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, and
Youssou N'dour. That doesn't make it better music, does it?
--
Mike Cohen - is...@netcom.com
Home Page: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/is/isis/home.html
PUSH THE BUTTON... SOMEONE
Xavier Messersmith
> Nesta Stubbs (ne...@MCS.COM) wrote:
> : Your true colors are revealed. You definetly come from the M$ world,
> : where do-nothing apps take up 30 megs of disk space. CONSUME CONSUME
> smaller files, I can burn up ten megs of disk space in a matter of minutes.
>
> In a modern computer, 40 megs is a *tiny* amount of free space. On a
> good day, I download four to ten megs of compressed files (like a big
> chunk of the Project Gutenberg files), and when uncompressed, those files
> get *big*.
>
> And those are just *text* files. One good JPEG, converted to PICT, RGB,
> or CMYK can be in the five to ten megabyte range.
I do tons of graphics work, and I'm sick of people trying to rip my
inoffensive little foot up and stab me with it. I know it is a tiny
space, I have one meg free at the moment and my system isn't crashing,
complaining, and or slowing down because of it. You see, even though a
raw uncompressed picture may take alot, a very simple compression
standard (IFF for example) can cut down on this a good deal, depending on
the changes in the bitplane info. I've never highly regarded PICT, RGB,
or CMYK. In fact I never touch 'em, THEY SUCK! Anyways, anyone who
bothers to work with text all the time needs help. Ya want text, READ A
BOOK YA MORON!
\|/ AND STOP TEARING UP MY SIGNATURE!
@ @
*------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------*------------------------------*
| __ ____ | A2000 7 MEGS RAM, 40 MEGS HD |
| ////\ /\/\ /\/ __ \/\ | The Amiga Community Lives! |
| __ //// /\ / / /\ / / / \/ /\ | \ / *-----------*
| \\\//// __ \/ _ _ \/ / (_/\/ __ \ | X |Idle/\/\/\/|
| \XX/ \/ \/\/ \/ \/\/\____/\/ \/ | / Caliber |Brains\/\/\|
| | \ @wco.com|Malfunction|
*------------------------------------*------------------*-----------*
Tomorrow's technology ten years ago!
FINGER THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
: In article <mtn-1806...@plks-s3.intac.com>,
: Tom Vilot <m...@intac.com> wrote:
: >In article <3rvoe5$7...@masala.cc.uh.edu>, cosc...@Bayou.UH.EDU (FINGER
: >THIS!!!!!!!!!!!) wrote:
: >> I can do far more on my LINUX than any winblows user could dream of doing
: >> on their o/s.
: >
: >Can we all please stop calling it an OS? It's a program that runs on an OS.
: >
: Not only that, but his point is either wrong or means nothing. I run Linux,
: not Windows, but I must admit there are many more applications, and some good
: ones, for Windows that for Linux. There are things you just can't do with
: Linux. There are few multimedia tools, for example. There aren't any truly
: high-quality image editing programs (like Photoshop 3.0) that I know of.
: There are no really good WYSIWYG word processors yet (how is Xword coming
: along, anyone?).
Not a bad point, except for one thing--I don't draw pretty pictures on
my computer, I do work. So when you take away the pretty picture programs
from winblows what do you have? A GUI that's all loaded up, but with nothing
to run. I'd love to see a fraction of the power of pipelines and
trouble free multi-tasking that linux offers even attempted on winblows.
I'd love to see the easy automation abilities of scripting (with it's
abilities to easily produce application programs) even attempted on winblows.
It won't happen. Why? Because winblows is a piece o' shit with nothing
to offer, except maybe a few laughs.
: So if he means puttering around with Unix then yes, Linux is obviously better
: than Windows. I personally think it's a great platform to program on, too.
: But for real world applications Linux is no good yet.
You don't consider data base creation/manipulation to be "real world"? Or
is your entire conception of "real world" playing with a mouse and watching
cute little button boxes with errors pop up? UNIX has been around a helluva
lot longer than winblows and has a helluva lot more fans. It didn't last
that long without providing real solutions to real problems--unlike winblows
which provides real problems period!
Lawson English
: John sez:
[snipt]
: >3. Bill Gates is not the Anti-Christ. He is not even a lower ranking
: > lackey of the Devil. He is a succesful buisnessman. If Bill Gates
: > ran Commedore instead of Ali, Amiga would be the industry standard.
:
: His business ethics are questionable. 'Nuff said.
Even in *America*, his business ethics are questionable.
Maybe not the Anti-Christ. I'd put him as a 2nd or 3rd Level D'n'D demon,
however...
: >4. Nobody forces people to run windows. They use windows and Dos because
: > it is useful.
: Bullshit. Read #2 again.
What does he think that the DoJ and EC legal hassles with MS were about?
Gate's religious views? They were about bundling practices. The legal
systems of two *continents* disagree with #4.
[snipt]
: At any rate, why do people want Win95? Because they finally want to have
: an operating system that is as good as other OS's that have been around
: for 10 years or more.
That's not quite true. Win95 does offer stuff that the MacOS doesn't, and
OS/2 hasn't been around for 10 years.
Besides, they don't want it because it is actually better than Win3.x,
but because they've been *told* that they should want it (marketing, eh?).
: >7. The truth is that Bill Gates has done more to champion the cause of
: > all personal computers, than even Steve Jobs. Gates provided a
: > way for an extreamly popular hardware (x86) to be used by anybody.
: No, what Bill Gates has done is kept the computer industry stuck in the
: mud with it's wheels spinning for years. It's a *fact* that the computer
: industry is at least 5 years behind what it should be because of the
: Winblows fiasco.
Gawd yes. Look at the number of transistors in the P6 and how long it
took to come to market.
: >9. Microsoft and Intel are two different comopanies. Intel makes
: > hardware and nothing else. Microsoft makes software and a couple of
: > periferals. There is no more collution between the two than between
: > the makers of staples and paper.
: Huh? Who said they were the same company??
Intel is actually far more dependent on the whims of MS than the other
way around...
: >10. And finally..To all those who suggest other OS's as the solution.
: > Your suggestion of OS2 and Liunix prove that other choices exist.
: >
: > I could use Liunix ( I am using AIX to post this) and I could use
: > OS2 but I choose to use Windows. Not because I am stupid or
: > Ignorant, but because I actually find it the most usefull, especially
: > in terms of compatibility.
: Trust me, you are ignorant. You're so ignorant, that you can't even see
: your own ignorance.
But compatibility only exists because more users use WinXX and therefore
more apps are written for it. Before the apps were there, there had to
have been another reason why DOS/Windows was chosen over the Mac, C/PM,
UNIX, etc, and that was "marketing," originally by IBM, and later by MS.
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>Karl L. Barrus (klba...@infocom.net) wrote:
>: >Personally, I rather like Microshaft. :)
>
>: Ah yes, cutesy name variations. I like "eunuchs" myself.
>
>: >Microshaft popularized Winblows through
>: >marketing hype aimed at the ignorant- those people who don't really know
>: >enough about operating systems to make an edu-micated choice.
>
>: ??. They popularized Windows through providing apps people actually want to
>: run. Developers and users vote with their feet in the real world, not the
>: socialist fantasy land you are in. Maybe there aren't any good apps for
>: better operating systems because there isn't as much money to be made.
>
>
>Heh. You think that anyone actually liked WIndows?
>
>
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to MS'es "questionable" preloading practices (replace "questionable" with
unethical and possibly illegal). People use Windows because that is what
has been thrust upon them. ISV write windows apps so they can feed
their families, not because it is a good platform. Nuff said.