Cross Post: Belated Christmas gifts: P390 parts

[Grant Taylor]

I'm cross posting the following message from the P/370 mailing list:

--8<--
OK, time to wake up this list a bit.

My wife has suggested that I clean up some of my “equipment” that I have
not used for 20 years or more. This includes a good-sized box of old
P390 parts. I’ll provide a list of the parts below, including a couple
of P390 adapters for the Microchannel machines.

All parts are free, except you pay the shipping. (Provide a FedEx or
UPS account number or shipping label.) I cannot guarantee the working
condition of any parts, but some are still in the original packaging.
Because of possible licensing issues, I will not provide the P390
licensed software.

Anyone that wants parts, email me at:
mike
at
Hammocktree
dot
US

First come, first served, but I will tend to favor keeping the total
number of packages down. Possible productive use or display in a museum
will be preferred over sitting in an attic or basement.

Mike Hammock



Quantity Name/Description Channel

1 P390 128 MB dual slot processor adapter - Microchannel MCA
1 P390 32 MB processor adapter Microchannel MCA

1 Ethernet Lan Adapter (Intel Microchannel) MCA
2 IBM Dual EtherStreamer MC32 ethernet adapter MCA
2 IBM Auto LANStreamer 16/4 Token Ring adapter MCA
1 3-COM Ethernet Adapter microchannel MCA
1 SMC Token Ring (?) LAN Adapter microchannel MCA
1 IBM Multiprotocol Communications adapter MCA

1 Mylex Microchannel RAID adapter (P390) MCA
3 IBM SCSI-2 Fast/Wide adapter MCA
1 IBM SCSI Wide adapter MCA

2 IBM XGA video adapter MCA
1 Cirrus SVGA video adapter (server 500) MCA MCA
1 IBM/Future Domain SCSI Narrow (35 pin) adapter MCA

2 IBM/Boca Research Dual Async/Parallel Adapter MCA

1 IBM 2.88 MB Diskette Drive/ Server 500
1 IBM CDROM drive for Server 500
1 IBM 4mm tape drive for Server 500 SCSI

2 Quantum 2.25 GB 3.5" disk drive (no tray) SCSI
5 Quantum 2.25 GB 3.5" disk drive (Server 500 tray) SCSI
-->8--



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[WBSTClarke]

There are some interesting items there. e-mail sent.

Cheers,
WBST

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/4/21 11:00 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> I'm cross posting the following message from the P/370 mailing list:

Update: TL;DR: Things are spoken for.

--8<--
OK, I've got multiple requests for parts, more than I can fill.

Do not send any more requests and I will try to apportion out the parts
to best cover the requests I have. If you do not hear from me within 3
days, your request did not make the cut. Within those 3 days I will be
contacting probably 4 people to provide shipping information.

It is encouraging to see so many people still interested in these
components that are more than 25 years old.

[Kevin Bowling]

On 1/4/21 11:00 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:

P/370 list.. emphasis on 370 not 390.. does anyone have the drivers and
LIC software to use a P/370? Wikipedia mentions both OS/2 and
RS/6000... I am skeptical of the later but would like to know.

Regards,
Kevin

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 9:19 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
> P/370 list.. emphasis on 370 not 390..

Yes, and no.

There isn't a P/390 or P/390-E mailing list that I'm aware of. My
understanding is that all of them co-habitate on the P/370 list. Much
like there aren't different mailing lists for different models of
mainframes. ;-)

> does anyone have the drivers and LIC software to use a P/370?

The drivers that I'm using for P/390-E mention support for other models,
including P/390 and P/370. So, I'd think that the drivers and programs
would be the same.

The thing that would be different would be the IBM Licensed Internal
Code (LIC). Though I do think that the copy of disks that I have do
include LIC for other cards. I think.

> Wikipedia mentions both OS/2 and RS/6000... I am skeptical of the
> later but would like to know.

Why are you skeptical about the RS/6000?

I've heard tell of someone running a card (I don't remember which one)
in an RS/6000.

Or is it that you are skeptical that the P/370 was ever used in an
RS/6000, e.g. R/370?

[Kevin Bowling]

I am skeptical about the usability of a P/370 and especially R/370 being
a known quantity by anyone, in terms of setting one up in 2021.
Especially the prospect of an R/370 because I know how the AIX ODM works
and don't see anything for it.

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 11:04 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
> I am skeptical about the usability of a P/370 and especially R/370 being
> a known quantity by anyone, in terms of setting one up in 2021.

Why do you say that?

There are a small number of people I follow on Twitter that have a P/370
and I suspect they know how to set it up in 2021.

Admittedly, it's probably a small number, but definitely not zero.

> Especially the prospect of an R/370 because I know how the AIX ODM works
> and don't see anything for it.

Three things come to mind.

1) Can the ODM be extended when installing new hardware / support software?

2) I think we are probably talking about older AIX 4.x. So I'm not
surprised if old hardware isn't included in the default install.

Older MCA hardware very likely won't be included in newer AIX versions
for non-MCA hardware. ;-)

[Kevin Bowling]

On 1/8/21 11:11 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 1/8/21 11:04 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
>> I am skeptical about the usability of a P/370 and especially R/370
>> being a known quantity by anyone, in terms of setting one up in 2021.
>
> Why do you say that?
>
> There are a small number of people I follow on Twitter that have a P/370
> and I suspect they know how to set it up in 2021.
>
> Admittedly, it's probably a small number, but definitely not zero.

Then show me the money. Why isn't it archived.

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 11:16 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
> Then show me the money.  Why isn't it archived.

I did say "I /suspect/ they know how to set it up".

I can't guarantee anything.

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 11:16 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:

> Then show me the money.

Let's flip this on it's head. Why do you think that no one knows how to
configure a P/370?

> Why isn't it archived.

What specifically do you mean by archived? Blog article? Software with
documentation on how to configure things? Something else?

I know for sure that the software that I run with my P/390-E includes
options for P/370. At least that's my understanding of what I'm reading
in config files.

I also know that the software that I use with my P/390-E includes icons
and programs for talking to the P/370.

I naively assume that the same software that I use with my P/390-E would
also work with a P/370 as well as P/390.

[Kevin Bowling]

On 1/8/21 11:40 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 1/8/21 11:16 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
>> Then show me the money.
>
> Let's flip this on it's head.  Why do you think that no one knows how to
> configure a P/370?
>
>> Why isn't it archived.
>
> What specifically do you mean by archived?  Blog article?  Software with
> documentation on how to configure things?  Something else?

Yes, we need the LIC archived or it will be lost forever. I am one such
site willing to host such an archive, but I need a source.

[WBSTClarke]

The MCA bus (128MB dual slot) and PCI bus (128MB single card) and P/390E (256MB single card PCI bus) can be IPL-ed in a "370 mode" (24-bit addressability?), depending upon configuration settings and files.

My early contributions for the OS/2-based LIC files can be found here:
https://www.ardent-tool.com/P390/p390.html
However, the latest updates to that are v2.5.2, which requires installation of the service level refresh, then subsequent upgrades via the cumulative fixes.

There was also an IBM System 390 Integrated Server:
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=DD&subtype=SM&htmlfid=897/ENUS3006-B01
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/1/897/ENUS198-211/index.html&lang=en_US-ZZ&request_locale=en
This requires the LIC v3.x.x, of which I have a CD-ROM containing that level.

The R/390 details can be accessed here:
ftp://p390.ibm.com/r390/r390info.htm

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 12:19 PM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
> Yes, we need the LIC archived or it will be lost forever. I am one
> such site willing to host such an archive, but I need a source.

I don't have any idea how IBM will actually respond to such LIC files
being archived.

On one hand, they will use fire and brimstone. On the other hand, they
don't care. I suspect their actual response will be somewhere in between.

I'm willing to share the LIC disks that I have with someone if they send
me a picture of them holding their P/390-e et al. My personal opinion
is that you, as someone possessing the hardware, you are entitled to the
LIC necessary to run it. I'm sure some would say I'm wrong. But that's
my opinion.

[IBMMuseum]

Hi Grant,

> I'm willing to share the LIC disks that I have with someone if
> they send me a picture of them holding their P/390-e et al.
> My personal opinion is that you, as someone possessing the
> hardware, you are entitled to the LIC necessary to run it. I'm
> sure some would say I'm wrong. But that's my opinion.

How would you like me to deliver the picture of me holding my P/370 adapter? - I'll even go further, I can live-stream in about 15 minutes. That is the specific adapter that Kevin is asking about. Ultimately he will be using it however we need to get it set up - and I have any possible host that would be needed.

[Kevin Bowling]

Guys, I am being precise here with **P/370** the {P, R}/390 stuff is
well known and I and others can bring them up at will.

[IBMMuseum]

In replay view - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0zK8wsibA0

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 4:19 PM, IBMMuseum wrote:
> Hi Grant,

Hi David,

> How would you like me to deliver the picture of me holding my
> P/370 adapter?

Just about any way that is convenient.

Think a selfie with your card.

Your follow up message suffices for me.

> I'll even go further, I can live-stream in about 15 minutes. That
> is the specific adapter that Kevin is asking about. Ultimately he
> will be using it however we need to get it set up - and I have any
> possible host that would be needed.

I'll send you a direct message tomorrow and we can discuss the disk
images, both programs and LIC.

[WBSTClarke]

The staged upgrade from v2.2.1 (refresh) to v2.5.2 supports *all* of the 7437, P/370 MCA, P/390 MCA, P/390 PCI and P/390E PCI, with the 7437 requiring the missing DD3702.SYS driver instead of the AWS370DD.SYS

We seem to be missing the @8FC4.ADF and C8FC4.ADF (ADP) for the P/370 adapter also.

Without a P/370 adapter, I cannot verify that the microcode files work with that.

Cheers,
WBST

[IBMMuseum]

Hi Grant

> I'll send you a direct message tomorrow and we can discuss
> the disk images, both programs and LIC.

Sounds great!

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 6:54 PM, Kevin Bowling wrote:
> Guys, I am being precise here with **P/370** the {P, R}/390 stuff is
> well known and I and others can bring them up at will.

I'm confident that you are both precise and accurate.

I think that it would be worth while to try the same methods used for
the {P,R}/390 against the P/370 and see what if anything, happens.

Another option is to inquire on the P/370 mailing list.

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/8/21 10:26 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> I'll send you a direct message tomorrow and we can discuss the disk
> images, both programs and LIC.

Hi David,

I'm replying here again because I'm not sure that our emails are making
it to each other.

I'd rather over communicate than under communicate and miss an
opportunity to help each other.

You should have an email from me as of a few minutes ago.

[IBMMuseum]

Hi Grant,

I apologize - I have now replied to your e-mail. Thank You for this offer, I appreciate you doing this.

[Grant Taylor]

On 1/24/21 7:58 PM, IBMMuseum wrote:
> Hi Grant,

Hi David,

> I apologize - I have now replied to your e-mail.

Apology returned to sender as unnecessary. ;-)

I just wanted to make sure that we had confirmed bidirectional
communications via email. I'm happy to say that we do. :-)

You should have a reply with some interesting bits.

> Thank You for this offer, I appreciate you doing this.

You're quite welcome. I'm happy to help.

[gfre...@aol.com]

If you can't trust a retired airline exec and 2 guys who have worked
for advertising money who can you believe?

To put it another way. Did you trust Trump with all of the details of
your life?
Now imagine a real bad guy.

[gah4]

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 10:00:24 AM UTC-8, Grant Taylor wrote:

(snip)

> My wife has suggested that I clean up some of my “equipment” that I have
> not used for 20 years or more. This includes a good-sized box of old
> P390 parts. I’ll provide a list of the parts below, including a couple
> of P390 adapters for the Microchannel machines.

Maybe there is a better place to ask, but does anyone know which RS/6000
machines are used to host the P/370? Will any Microchannel RS/6000 do it?

Links to other places to ask would also help.

thanks!

[Louis Ohland]

I would imagine the 8580, must surf

[Louis Ohland]

https://ardent-tool.com/CPU/190-017.txt



ES/9370, the double-wide 8580.

[Louis Ohland]

https://ardent-tool.com/CPU/192-156.txt

This is it.


The MMC connects an IBM Micro Channel PS/2 to an IBM
System/370, System/390, ES/3090, or ES/9000 (except the 9371) host
processor as follows:
Machine Models
PS/2 70-081 70-161 70-A81 70-A16
80-081 80-161 80-311 80-321 80-A16 80-A31
90-0G5 90-0G9 90-0H5 90-0H9 90-0J5 90-0J9
90-0KD 90-0KF 90-0K9 90-0LF 90-0L9
95-0GF 95-0G9 95-0HF 95-0H9 95-0JD 95-0JF
95-0J9 95-0KD 95-0KF 95-0LF 95-0MF 95-0MT

Feature Part Purchase Charge
Description Number Number Price (IOR)
PS/2 MicroChannel to
Mainframe Connection 1436 95F1436 $5,500 $235
CABLE FEATURES:
Upstream bus and tag 7988 12G7988 875 --
Downstream bus and tag 7993 12G7993 716 --
10-foot extension 7994 12G7989 516 --
25-foot extension 7990 12G7990 617 --
40-foot extension 7991 12G7991 754 --
100-foot extension 7992 12G7992 1,185 --

[Louis Ohland]

https://ardent-tool.com/mcgill/onp370.html

[Louis Ohland]

I H8te Unix help.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060213052721/http://musicm.mcgill.ca/$man/http/home.html

[RickE]

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:32:37 AM UTC-4, gah4 wrote:
> Maybe there is a better place to ask, but does anyone know which RS/6000
> machines are used to host the P/370? Will any Microchannel RS/6000 do it?

I do not know, as I didn't play with the P/370 card back in my Microchannel RS/6000 days. My *guess* is that the answer will be dependent on the level of P/370 support software that you have in hand, which in turn will likely dictate which level(s) of AIX you can use with it. If you're limited to AIX 3.2.5, for example, the list of possible RS/6000 models would be smaller than the list if AIX 4.1.5 was also viable. In any case, I would think that a 7013-550 would probably be a good choice, but a 7012-320 or -32H would likely be OK as well. Do you have several Microchannel RS/6000 machines to choose from?

[gah4]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:13:59 AM UTC-7, ekb...@vnet.ibm.com wrote:

(snip)

> In any case, I would think that a 7013-550 would probably be a good choice,
> but a 7012-320 or -32H would likely be OK as well.
> Do you have several Microchannel RS/6000 machines to choose from?

I was supposed to get a 7012-340, but they accidentally sold it to someone else.

[Louis Ohland]

https://ardent-tool.com/CPU/193-131.txt


S/370 Channel
Emulator/A
M/T 7012
Models 320, 32E,
32H, 340, 350,
355, 360, 36T,
365, 370, 37T, 375

[Kevin Bowling]

As long as you can fit the cards, the MCA implementation in RS/6000 and
AIX is very good. You can run a P/3x0 in a 7006, 7009 or 7011.

[gah4]

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:34:17 AM UTC-7, Kevin Bowling wrote:

(snip)

> As long as you can fit the cards, the MCA implementation in RS/6000 and
> AIX is very good. You can run a P/3x0 in a 7006, 7009 or 7011.

It does seem that more models claim compatibility with the Channel Emulator/A
than with the P/370 itself. That should mean that you can run channel
attached I/O devices directly from AIX, without the P/370 and its OS.