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IBM 8570 problem
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Jiri Zlamal
Feb 28, 2015, 8:58:42 AM2/28/15
to
Hello friends,
have you anyone got a some next tip what I should try to revive newly acquired IBM model 70 ? It's a model with short planar (IBM 64F3537) and 20 MHz i386 , and show and beeps totaly nothing after firing up.
I completely removed all parts and leave only motherboard with SIMM's and power supply, but result was same. Also as next tries when I removed one of SIMM modules, next unsuscesffuly try start-up, and after it I swaped SIMM with second - nothing.
So I took out PSU and measured all output voltages, it seems fine : 5V, 12V and -12V are all present with 5V on PS Good signal. Fan is also running without problem and PSU green LED shines too, so i have assumed the PSU is good.
Then mainboard left for next tries - on EPROM programmer i tried to read content of BIOS, and it shows as probably fine, there are readable IBM text strings on begin and readable date at the end of it. Next I swap CPU for tested other one, nothing changed and both CPU's are a little heating after while', so it seems as powered and running. Mainboard also seems without any damage or something burned, fuse in the corner is also OK.
Now I don't guess what next I could try to revive this beauty :) Or mainboards in these 70 models tend to completely fail by this hard way ? Unfortunatelly i haven't any one similar PS/2 computer to make a tests with other PSU or mainboard...
have you anyone got a some next tip what I should try to revive newly acquired IBM model 70 ? It's a model with short planar (IBM 64F3537) and 20 MHz i386 , and show and beeps totaly nothing after firing up.
I completely removed all parts and leave only motherboard with SIMM's and power supply, but result was same. Also as next tries when I removed one of SIMM modules, next unsuscesffuly try start-up, and after it I swaped SIMM with second - nothing.
So I took out PSU and measured all output voltages, it seems fine : 5V, 12V and -12V are all present with 5V on PS Good signal. Fan is also running without problem and PSU green LED shines too, so i have assumed the PSU is good.
Then mainboard left for next tries - on EPROM programmer i tried to read content of BIOS, and it shows as probably fine, there are readable IBM text strings on begin and readable date at the end of it. Next I swap CPU for tested other one, nothing changed and both CPU's are a little heating after while', so it seems as powered and running. Mainboard also seems without any damage or something burned, fuse in the corner is also OK.
Now I don't guess what next I could try to revive this beauty :) Or mainboards in these 70 models tend to completely fail by this hard way ? Unfortunatelly i haven't any one similar PS/2 computer to make a tests with other PSU or mainboard...
Louis Ohland
Feb 28, 2015, 2:45:04 PM2/28/15
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Wow. Tough nut to crack.
What are the FRUs or P/Ns on the SIMMs? I do believe the 70 wants 85nS
parity.
Where did this system come from - I mean was it working before? If
someone tried to get it to work before and assumed that whatever parts
would work like on clone systems, that's not a good bet to take.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/8570/8570_Type2.html
The diagonal line at the upper left of U20 should be pin 1. Is the CPU
correctly oriented?
Not coming up, no beep or video...
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/errors/ps2_troubleshooting.html
What are the FRUs or P/Ns on the SIMMs? I do believe the 70 wants 85nS
parity.
Where did this system come from - I mean was it working before? If
someone tried to get it to work before and assumed that whatever parts
would work like on clone systems, that's not a good bet to take.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/8570/8570_Type2.html
The diagonal line at the upper left of U20 should be pin 1. Is the CPU
correctly oriented?
Not coming up, no beep or video...
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/errors/ps2_troubleshooting.html
Jiri Zlamal
Feb 28, 2015, 3:28:27 PM2/28/15
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Louis,
thanks for tip - SIMMs seem as good, each of them is labeled with two marks 68X6127 and 90X8625, you can see it here :
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/8570%20SIMM_zps7mipo6xo.jpg
I also tried to test mobo with IBM P/N 65X6249 FRU 92F0104 2M85NS spare module, but nothing happened too.
And motherboard is exactly that type 2, according to your link.
About history of this model 70 - i bought it yesterday from guy, who had found this PC on neighbour's attic and save it from neighbours who want to throw it away. If he tried some repairs on it i dont know, but all key components seems as untouched and original CPU was right oriented.
Only interesting thing I saw immediately after opening case - these was P/N 90X9369 MCA32 memory card in one slot, but completely empty without any SIMM module. So I don't know what would this means :)
It's really tough this one and first model 70 in my collection to make work !
thanks for tip - SIMMs seem as good, each of them is labeled with two marks 68X6127 and 90X8625, you can see it here :
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/8570%20SIMM_zps7mipo6xo.jpg
I also tried to test mobo with IBM P/N 65X6249 FRU 92F0104 2M85NS spare module, but nothing happened too.
And motherboard is exactly that type 2, according to your link.
About history of this model 70 - i bought it yesterday from guy, who had found this PC on neighbour's attic and save it from neighbours who want to throw it away. If he tried some repairs on it i dont know, but all key components seems as untouched and original CPU was right oriented.
Only interesting thing I saw immediately after opening case - these was P/N 90X9369 MCA32 memory card in one slot, but completely empty without any SIMM module. So I don't know what would this means :)
It's really tough this one and first model 70 in my collection to make work !
Louis Ohland
Feb 28, 2015, 4:40:04 PM2/28/15
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90X8625 2MB (85NS) snap, not as easy as I'd hoped. Looks to be proper
memory...
memory...
Louis Ohland
Feb 28, 2015, 4:45:04 PM2/28/15
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> these was P/N 90X9369 MCA32 memory card in one slot, but completely empty without any SIMM module.
BUT... Have you cleared the CMOS? A possibility is the memory card's
memory or presence is still there, and is messing up the boot.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/8570/8570.html#Clear_POP
Also, a low CMOS battery will duff up things.
http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html#72X8498
Louis Ohland
Feb 28, 2015, 4:50:07 PM2/28/15
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Repressed memories. Try blowing out the slots with compressed air.
Though IBM recommends using a vaccuum (no foolin'). If there is any crud
in the slots it could be shorting out a line or so on the MCA bus...
Though IBM recommends using a vaccuum (no foolin'). If there is any crud
in the slots it could be shorting out a line or so on the MCA bus...
Jiri Zlamal
Feb 28, 2015, 5:38:46 PM2/28/15
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Ok, I tried it but clear CMOS doesn't take any efect, as complete bringing out battery from its holder.
But at he end I will try a pressure air cleaning of MCA slots according to your tip, thanks !
But at he end I will try a pressure air cleaning of MCA slots according to your tip, thanks !
Louis Ohland
Feb 28, 2015, 6:55:04 PM2/28/15
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How old is the battery? Can you probe those two pins while the battery
holder is plugged into the planar?
holder is plugged into the planar?
Jiri Zlamal
Mar 1, 2015, 5:19:53 AM3/1/15
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Hello, I just measured battery and has 3.8V. It seems as original IBM (Panasonic BR-P2 6V) with mark 62X0338 and replacement P/N 72X8498).
But mobo doesn't find out any difference between connected and non-connected battery. After some hours without battery an errors should be displayed and CMOS completely deleted, if mainboard is ok, right ?
But mobo doesn't find out any difference between connected and non-connected battery. After some hours without battery an errors should be displayed and CMOS completely deleted, if mainboard is ok, right ?
Louis Ohland
Mar 1, 2015, 1:30:04 PM3/1/15
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The 70 uses the same battery as the 8580.
THE BATTERY, FRU P/N72X8498 SHOULD BE REPLACED IF IT IS BELOW 5.5V DC.
Right now, I don't have a good grip on the symptoms, but from past
experience, a bollixed up CMOS can cause no end of stupid problems.
This is most annoying. Pulling all adapters should force the system to
show a 163 at a minimum, same thing for moving or changing the memory
SIMMs. No beeps and no video could be a sign of something shorting out
an MCA slot, badly inserted memory SIMMs. Slots blown out.
Are the SIMM contacts clean? They can be buffed with a folded banknote.
Don't use an eraser since they leave residue.
Is there a math co-pro installed? Is pin 1 oriented to the same
direction / orientation as the 386? Pull the 387 if installed, give it a go.
Geez...
THE BATTERY, FRU P/N72X8498 SHOULD BE REPLACED IF IT IS BELOW 5.5V DC.
Right now, I don't have a good grip on the symptoms, but from past
experience, a bollixed up CMOS can cause no end of stupid problems.
This is most annoying. Pulling all adapters should force the system to
show a 163 at a minimum, same thing for moving or changing the memory
SIMMs. No beeps and no video could be a sign of something shorting out
an MCA slot, badly inserted memory SIMMs. Slots blown out.
Are the SIMM contacts clean? They can be buffed with a folded banknote.
Don't use an eraser since they leave residue.
Is there a math co-pro installed? Is pin 1 oriented to the same
direction / orientation as the 386? Pull the 387 if installed, give it a go.
Geez...
Jiri Zlamal
Mar 1, 2015, 2:02:53 PM3/1/15
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Louis,
i optically check inside all three MCA slots and cleaned its with hoover, just now are really perfect without any mess or shorted / bent contacts.
SIMM slots seem also fine, but have thought if mainboard needs installed SIMM module only in first SIMM slot ? Or I can test it in other slots and mobo should be working even if first slot is empty ? This might reveal potencially malfunction SIMM slot...
Or working mainboard should produce some beeps without any SIMM module inserted ?
About FPU - it is not installed, so this issue is ok...
i optically check inside all three MCA slots and cleaned its with hoover, just now are really perfect without any mess or shorted / bent contacts.
SIMM slots seem also fine, but have thought if mainboard needs installed SIMM module only in first SIMM slot ? Or I can test it in other slots and mobo should be working even if first slot is empty ? This might reveal potencially malfunction SIMM slot...
Or working mainboard should produce some beeps without any SIMM module inserted ?
About FPU - it is not installed, so this issue is ok...
Louis Ohland
Mar 1, 2015, 3:10:04 PM3/1/15
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Should not matter which slot for memory, these are not interleaved.
Memory sizes aren't an issue, as 2MB 85nS is the common size.
It is possible that swapping all the SIMMs thru one socket may find one
acceptable one. PS/2s may test the first SIMM really hard, since that is
the most critical one during boot.
Check the clips on the ends of the SIMM socket. Some systems used
plastic clips which failed, and that allows the SIMM to not be fully seated.
Look at all the chip leads on the planar for corroded or mashed leads.
Geez. Tough one.
Memory sizes aren't an issue, as 2MB 85nS is the common size.
It is possible that swapping all the SIMMs thru one socket may find one
acceptable one. PS/2s may test the first SIMM really hard, since that is
the most critical one during boot.
Check the clips on the ends of the SIMM socket. Some systems used
plastic clips which failed, and that allows the SIMM to not be fully seated.
Look at all the chip leads on the planar for corroded or mashed leads.
Geez. Tough one.
JWR
Mar 2, 2015, 4:38:08 AM3/2/15
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Hi Jiri,
Nice challenge!
I suppose you already tried the second option under :
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/errors
/ps2error.htm#Troubleshoot_Dead_System
If it doesn't beep and the speaker is OK, then my guess is the mobo is
"past its prime" ;-(
Last option is that you could suffer from leaking capacitors on the mobo.
See this thread on this group:
"Nicron N251, 10uF, 25v electrolytic caps all burst on 85N planar"
Good luck and keep us posted!
--
Jelte,
Admirer of the letter of IBM with blue Ishiki
Nice challenge!
I suppose you already tried the second option under :
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/errors
/ps2error.htm#Troubleshoot_Dead_System
If it doesn't beep and the speaker is OK, then my guess is the mobo is
"past its prime" ;-(
Last option is that you could suffer from leaking capacitors on the mobo.
See this thread on this group:
"Nicron N251, 10uF, 25v electrolytic caps all burst on 85N planar"
Good luck and keep us posted!
--
Jelte,
Admirer of the letter of IBM with blue Ishiki
Jiri Zlamal
Mar 2, 2015, 5:06:02 PM3/2/15
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Hi Jelte, yep - all of classic ways i tried and all completely failed, this 8570 mainboard unfortunatelly seems as completely dead. I assumed this IBM would be fine piece for fun to make running, but still I cannot move with this "brick" away :)
At weekend I will try some SIMM modules swaping in slots according to Louis and also check caps and corrosion of boards... even if I just checked it before my attempts and board seemed as non-touched. But it will last try and after it I will have to make RIP ceremony after this 8570 and leave it for parts. Or will try to bought some spare working motherboard, that'd be much better alternative !
So I will keep up inform about last try :)
At weekend I will try some SIMM modules swaping in slots according to Louis and also check caps and corrosion of boards... even if I just checked it before my attempts and board seemed as non-touched. But it will last try and after it I will have to make RIP ceremony after this 8570 and leave it for parts. Or will try to bought some spare working motherboard, that'd be much better alternative !
So I will keep up inform about last try :)
Jiri Zlamal
Mar 2, 2015, 5:19:31 PM3/2/15
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Ok, will try and will inform. And just one today new, this IBM maybe had some psychic problems with smokers and decide to leave this damn world rather than stay with its last smoking owner. I have find out some smoke little smells out of interior and dust inside in case - so if all ways how to revive it will fail, this is sure what happened with this poor PC :D
Jiri Zlamal
Mar 21, 2015, 12:17:49 PM3/21/15
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Hello friends, I am back with news, unluckily not good. I tried complete disasembling of model 70 to parts, and cleaning and completely optical check of motherboard to any damage, short bent pins etc. Even there is no any visible problem with this motherbard, mobo doesn't work or produce any beep / display / fire activity. All circuits and processor have lightly heated, hard drive spin up, power supply greenly lights, but that's all. Also tried SIMM module swapping among all three slots with different combinations, nothing.
Who knows what can occurs to this model 70 in the past...
So if by chance anyone have stock of spare 8570 motherboards in Europe, I am glad to make trade :)
Here are pictures of motherboard (and reviving worktable :)
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%201_zpshli1bumj.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%202_zpsttmriyux.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%203_zpsswqwut16.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%204_zpsicm6my7g.jpg
Who knows what can occurs to this model 70 in the past...
So if by chance anyone have stock of spare 8570 motherboards in Europe, I am glad to make trade :)
Here are pictures of motherboard (and reviving worktable :)
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%201_zpshli1bumj.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%202_zpsttmriyux.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%203_zpsswqwut16.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/Sany_CZ/HW/IBM%208570%20motherboard%20revive%20-%204_zpsicm6my7g.jpg
Message has been deleted
Jiri Zlamal
Mar 27, 2015, 10:25:34 AM3/27/15
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I still didn't find exactle same "little" motherboard as is mine dead, and only have found these bigger (older ?) revisions :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-15F7657-8570-A21-25MHZ-M-BRD-/331501469900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d2f0700cc
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-33F5834-8570-F61-16MHZ-M-BRD-/331501470151?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d2f0701c7
Have ask, if these motherboards will be fitting instead of my one, to 8570 case ? Or these bigger revisions had its own case layout / dispozition / mounting holes ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-15F7657-8570-A21-25MHZ-M-BRD-/331501469900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d2f0700cc
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-33F5834-8570-F61-16MHZ-M-BRD-/331501470151?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d2f0701c7
Have ask, if these motherboards will be fitting instead of my one, to 8570 case ? Or these bigger revisions had its own case layout / dispozition / mounting holes ?
ekb...@vnet.ibm.com
Mar 30, 2015, 9:25:59 AM3/30/15
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> Have ask, if these motherboards will be fitting instead of my one, to 8570 case ? Or these bigger revisions had its own case layout / dispozition / mounting holes ?
The 8570 case will accept either the short or long system board. If you decide to buy one of the offered boards, you probably want the 15F7657 choice.
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