EVGA X58 SLI motherboard's Realtek onboard audio is weak compared to Creative sound cards?
Ant
I used to use Creative sound cards (e.g., original SB, SB16, Live, and
Audigy 2 ZS) in my home PCs for gaming (e.g., hardware EAX). Yesterday,
I finally retired using Creative sound cards since I rarely play
computer games any more due to lack of free time and motivations and
most newer games don't really use hardware EAX anymore like they used
to. I have a decent speaker setup (Logitech Z-2300 speakers (2.1 setup
and analog)).
I noticed the audio quality is different in my videos, games, etc. There
is definitely way less bass from my kickarse subwoofer. I tried playing
with the settings (e.g., equalizer, using default bass settings) in
Realtek audio v5.10.6257's driver (XP Pro. SP3's DirectX 9.0, HD Audio,
ALC8889, etc.), but it is not good as my Creative sound cards. :( I love
bass and I always max out bass in audio volume mixers!
Am I missing something? Or am I expecting too much from onboard audios
(are they all like this?)? Do I have to buy a new sound card (PCIe since
my new motherboard doesn't have any more PCI slots due to my two old
HDTV tuner cards)?
Thank you in advance. :)
--
"I got worms! That's what we're going to call it. We're going to
specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant farms. What's the
matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd Christmas (Dumb and
Dumber movie)
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Bob Masta
wrote:
>Hello!
>
>I used to use Creative sound cards (e.g., original SB, SB16, Live, and
>Audigy 2 ZS) in my home PCs for gaming (e.g., hardware EAX). Yesterday,
>I finally retired using Creative sound cards since I rarely play
>computer games any more due to lack of free time and motivations and
>most newer games don't really use hardware EAX anymore like they used
>to. I have a decent speaker setup (Logitech Z-2300 speakers (2.1 setup
>and analog)).
>
>I noticed the audio quality is different in my videos, games, etc. There
>is definitely way less bass from my kickarse subwoofer. I tried playing
>with the settings (e.g., equalizer, using default bass settings) in
>Realtek audio v5.10.6257's driver (XP Pro. SP3's DirectX 9.0, HD Audio,
>ALC8889, etc.), but it is not good as my Creative sound cards. :( I love
>bass and I always max out bass in audio volume mixers!
>
>Am I missing something? Or am I expecting too much from onboard audios
>(are they all like this?)? Do I have to buy a new sound card (PCIe since
>my new motherboard doesn't have any more PCI slots due to my two old
>HDTV tuner cards)?
>
>Thank you in advance. :)
>--
Assuming you are using the exact same speaker system, there
are a couple of possible explanations. The simplest is that
the on-board sound probably has less total output power
capability. An equalizer can't boost power beyond the limit
of the output stage. To boost bass (whether with a sound
card equalizer or a fancy standalone hardware unit) you have
to reduce gain at higher frequencies. The bass is then
louder than the midrange, but it can't put out more power
than the output amp can deliver.
So perhaps with less on-board power, you may be getting the
same *relative* boost (compared to midrange), but the
overall volume is not enough to rumble your guts any more.
If this is the case, you just need an external amp to boost
everything.
The next possibility is that the sound card equalizer may
have a different idea of the reference level. If the
equalizer designer wants to allow 12 dB of boost, that means
that when everything is "flat" it will be 12 dB below max.
But another card's equalizer may use a 6 dB reference level,
meaning that it can only produce a 6 dB boost. Note that dB
here is *relative*, not absolute SPL, so both outputs could
have the same total output range... just that they have
defined the 0 dB point differently. If that's what's going
on here, you may be able to get the results you want by
boosting the bass as much as the equalizer allows, then
cutting the mids and highs *below* 0 dB so that the bass is
that much greater than everything else.
Finally, it's possible that the on-board sound has wimpy AC
coupling capacitors, putting the lower cutoff frequency too
high for the amount of bass you like. To get lower cutoffs
when all else is equal, a designer needs to use
larger-valued caps. Unlike (say) larger resistances, larger
caps are physically larger and cost more money, so this idea
is not totally out of the question. However, my experience
is that even dirt-cheap systems have really low cutoffs, so
I would not rank this as the most likely explanation.
If a bigger (external) amp and/or changing the mid and high
equalizer settings don't do the job, you can measure the
actual frequency response of your card using my Daqarta
software. It's normally US$29, but the 30-session/30-day
free trial period should be more than adequate to resolve
this issue, so it won't cost you a cent.
Daqarta's signal generator can produce all sorts of output
test signals, which it can measure with the sound card input
and plot as a real-time frequency response. (See
<http://www.daqarta.com/dw0akk.htm> ) Normally, however,
the spectrum analyzer doesn't show enough detail at the very
lowest frequencies to answer your question.
So instead, you could just set the signal generator to a
pure sine wave at (say) 1000 Hz and read the input response
in dB. Call that the reference level, then set progressively
lower frequencies until you find the cutoff (-3 dB from the
reference). You can do this using the waveform display plus
the voltmeter dB option. (<www.daqarta.com/dw_volts.htm>)
Also, the response you measure will include the output
response and the input response, since you will be using a
"loopback" connection from output to input. So if you find
a weak low frequency response, it doesn't prove it's the
output... you might have a first-rate output and a poor
input. The loopback test can't tell them apart... you'd
need external equipment for that. (Actually, there *is* a
way to estimate the input response, or at least see if it's
the likely suspect. It involves looking at the decay of a
waveform step response as you connect a 1.5 V battery to the
input. But it's a bit involved to go into here. Let me
know if you get to that stage, and I'll give you more info.)
Best regards,
Bob Masta
DAQARTA v5.10
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever!
(Some assembly required)
Science (and fun!) with your sound card!
Ant
> Assuming you are using the exact same speaker system, there
Yes, it is the same 2.1 analog speakers setup, cables, locations, etc.
Just different sound hardware in my PC. Basically, I got rid of Audigy 2
ZS because it was a PCI card and I decided to try the onboard. :(
> are a couple of possible explanations. The simplest is that
> the on-board sound probably has less total output power
> capability. An equalizer can't boost power beyond the limit
> of the output stage. To boost bass (whether with a sound
> card equalizer or a fancy standalone hardware unit) you have
> to reduce gain at higher frequencies. The bass is then
> louder than the midrange, but it can't put out more power
> than the output amp can deliver.
>
> So perhaps with less on-board power, you may be getting the
> same *relative* boost (compared to midrange), but the
> overall volume is not enough to rumble your guts any more.
> If this is the case, you just need an external amp to boost
> everything.
So, an external amp between my onboard's audio output and Logitech
Z-2300 speakers?
> The next possibility is that the sound card equalizer may
> have a different idea of the reference level. If the
> equalizer designer wants to allow 12 dB of boost, that means
> that when everything is "flat" it will be 12 dB below max.
> But another card's equalizer may use a 6 dB reference level,
> meaning that it can only produce a 6 dB boost. Note that dB
> here is *relative*, not absolute SPL, so both outputs could
> have the same total output range... just that they have
> defined the 0 dB point differently. If that's what's going
> on here, you may be able to get the results you want by
> boosting the bass as much as the equalizer allows, then
> cutting the mids and highs *below* 0 dB so that the bass is
> that much greater than everything else.
Interesting. Yeah, I fiddled with EQs, but they don't sound good as the
ones I got from Creative's mixers. It let me adjust bass, treble, etc.
but RealTek's mixers doesn't (greyed out). :(
Thanks even though a bit technical. :)
--
"When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things the clearest. It's
hard to care about ants when you're soaring with eagles." --unknown
Ant
>> So perhaps with less on-board power, you may be getting the
>> same *relative* boost (compared to midrange), but the
>> overall volume is not enough to rumble your guts any more.
>> If this is the case, you just need an external amp to boost
>> everything.
>
> So, an external amp between my onboard's audio output and Logitech
> Z-2300 speakers?
According to
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Speakers/Logitech-Z-2300-speakers-sound-like-crap-with-onboard-audio/m-p/543006#M24493
, this speaker set does have an internal amp. :/
--
"You're kissing an ant hill." --Mike Nelson
Ross Ridge
>I noticed the audio quality is different in my videos, games, etc. There
>is definitely way less bass from my kickarse subwoofer. I tried playing
>with the settings (e.g., equalizer, using default bass settings) in
>Realtek audio v5.10.6257's driver (XP Pro. SP3's DirectX 9.0, HD Audio,
>ALC8889, etc.), but it is not good as my Creative sound cards. :( I love
>bass and I always max out bass in audio volume mixers!
Make sure that Windows and the soundcard are setup to use "Stereo
Speakers" and not any sort of 2.1/5.1/7.1 configuration. Otherwise the
sound card might cut off the low bass frequences from the front left and
right outputs and redirect it to the computer's unconnected subwoofer
output.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
Ant
>> I noticed the audio quality is different in my videos, games, etc. There
>> is definitely way less bass from my kickarse subwoofer. I tried playing
>> with the settings (e.g., equalizer, using default bass settings) in
>> Realtek audio v5.10.6257's driver (XP Pro. SP3's DirectX 9.0, HD Audio,
>> ALC8889, etc.), but it is not good as my Creative sound cards. :( I love
>> bass and I always max out bass in audio volume mixers!
>
> Make sure that Windows and the soundcard are setup to use "Stereo
> Speakers" and not any sort of 2.1/5.1/7.1 configuration. Otherwise the
> sound card might cut off the low bass frequences from the front left and
> right outputs and redirect it to the computer's unconnected subwoofer
> output.
In Windows XP Pro. SP3's audio setup, it is already set to stereo (2.0
speakers) and there's no way to have 2.1 for it. In fact, there was no
way to do that in the past even with my Creative sound cards.
In RealTek's Sound Manager, I cannot find any speaker settings. I only
use one audio cable with this 2.1 speaker setup. Where is the speaker
setup for the onboard's mixer if it exists?
--
"Many ants kill a camel." --Turkish
Ant
bass if I were to crank up the audio volume (db), but that's too loud
for me to get punchy bass like I used to get on my old Creative
soundcards. :(
On 12/21/2010 8:14 AM PT, Ant typed:
> I used to use Creative sound cards (e.g., original SB, SB16, Live, and
> Audigy 2 ZS) in my home PCs for gaming (e.g., hardware EAX). Yesterday,
> I finally retired using Creative sound cards since I rarely play
> computer games any more due to lack of free time and motivations and
> most newer games don't really use hardware EAX anymore like they used
> to. I have a decent speaker setup (Logitech Z-2300 speakers (2.1 setup
> and analog)).
>
> I noticed the audio quality is different in my videos, games, etc. There
> is definitely way less bass from my kickarse subwoofer. I tried playing
> with the settings (e.g., equalizer, using default bass settings) in
> Realtek audio v5.10.6257's driver (XP Pro. SP3's DirectX 9.0, HD Audio,
> ALC8889, etc.), but it is not good as my Creative sound cards. :( I love
> bass and I always max out bass in audio volume mixers!
>
> Am I missing something? Or am I expecting too much from onboard audios
> (are they all like this?)? Do I have to buy a new sound card (PCIe since
> my new motherboard doesn't have any more PCI slots due to my two old
> HDTV tuner cards)?
--
"An ant's nest could bring down a hill." --Japanese
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: Chromeo - Hot Mess
Ant
movies, gaming, music, etc. with this 2.1 speaker setup and gives
clarity and good bass from my subwoofer?
On 12/21/2010 8:14 AM PT, Ant typed:
> Hello!
>
> I used to use Creative sound cards (e.g., original SB, SB16, Live, and
> Audigy 2 ZS) in my home PCs for gaming (e.g., hardware EAX). Yesterday,
> I finally retired using Creative sound cards since I rarely play
> computer games any more due to lack of free time and motivations and
> most newer games don't really use hardware EAX anymore like they used
> to. I have a decent speaker setup (Logitech Z-2300 speakers (2.1 setup
> and analog)).
>
> I noticed the audio quality is different in my videos, games, etc. There
> is definitely way less bass from my kickarse subwoofer. I tried playing
> with the settings (e.g., equalizer, using default bass settings) in
> Realtek audio v5.10.6257's driver (XP Pro. SP3's DirectX 9.0, HD Audio,
> ALC8889, etc.), but it is not good as my Creative sound cards. :( I love
> bass and I always max out bass in audio volume mixers!
>
> Am I missing something? Or am I expecting too much from onboard audios
> (are they all like this?)? Do I have to buy a new sound card (PCIe since
> my new motherboard doesn't have any more PCI slots due to my two old
> HDTV tuner cards)?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
--
"The ambitious one makes friends with the elephant, then tramples upon
the ant." --Indian
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
--
"The ambitious one makes friends with the elephant, then tramples upon
the ant." --Indian
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.