PC Wavetable similarities
Royce Shih-Wea Liao
I was fiddling with the DirectMUSIC sample programs, in particular a
program which plays MIDI files to the DirectMusic API. After trying out
some game MIDI files (warcraft II, Wing Commander III, etc.), I noticed
striking similarities between the supplied 4MB GM DLS soundbank and
Roland's VSC-88. A whileback, I read a Roland press-release saying
Microsoft had licensed the GM/GS format for DirectX, and I guess this is
the result. The Microsoft Directmusic synth definitely uses the same
patches (possibly higher-quality ones, since the included DLS file is
~4MB, or about 2X as large as the demo VSC-88 2.1)
Given VSC-88's ridiculous cpu requirements, and very decent
sound-quality of Microsoft's DirectMusic software synth, I'd say Roland
has wiped itself out of the consumer PC multimedia market for good.
Likewise, I picked up a Yamaha 724 PCI (DS-1 XG) from Fry's. I already
had Yamaha's YXG-50 software synthesizer on my PC. Guess what? The
724-PCI's MIDI soundbank and YXG-50 software synth soundback sound
identical. The DS-XG does sound crisper, and that's probably due to the
larger included waveset (2.5MB for the DS-XG vs the 2.0MB YXG-50 demo) I
tried to copy over the YXG-50's (\windows\system\sxgwave2.tbl) soundbank,
but I could not force the YXG-50 synth to use the DS-XG's soundbank.
Is there a larger (>2.5MB) patch set available for the Yamaha DS-XG? What
about Yamaha's Waveforce 192XG? Does anyone know if the Waveforce
software comes with a (better) different patchset?
David Gasior
...
>Given VSC-88's ridiculous cpu requirements, and very decent
>sound-quality of Microsoft's DirectMusic software synth, I'd say Roland
>has wiped itself out of the consumer PC multimedia market for good.
Hmm, I think most people agree that the Roland GM.DLS that Microsoft
provides really sucks in comparison to a real synth. DLS has so many things
against it that make it unsuitable for most people. I think one of the
major limitations in DLS currently is the lack of layers. Using layers can
really fill out a sound. Eaxh sample in a DLS bank is basically on its own,
and while the GM.DLS is nice, it really can't compare to most other software
synths.
Just my opinion ...
>Is there a larger (>2.5MB) patch set available for the Yamaha DS-XG? What
>about Yamaha's Waveforce 192XG? Does anyone know if the Waveforce
>software comes with a (better) different patchset?
I think that Yamaha's cards can download DLS files to the hardware, so you
could download the Roland/Microsoft GM.DLS set if you wanted. There are
also others out on the net. There are also programs like AWave and Audio
Compositor that convert SF2 files over to DLS.
--
David A Gasior
dga...@home.com
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Fight spam - remove the word
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mbg
years now and GM.DLS is not even close to the quality of a real
SoundCanvas. Not close at all... you can TELL the GM.DLS patches are
SoundCanvas sounds from their various nuances....but they don't have
anything resembling SoundCanvas quality.
In article <7isrf8$drm$5...@nntp.Stanford.EDU>, li...@leland.Stanford.EDU
says...
> I got bored and downloaded the DirectX 6.1 SDK (yeah all ~80MB of it.)
>
> I was fiddling with the DirectMUSIC sample programs, in particular a
> program which plays MIDI files to the DirectMusic API. After trying out
> some game MIDI files (warcraft II, Wing Commander III, etc.), I noticed
> striking similarities between the supplied 4MB GM DLS soundbank and
> Roland's VSC-88. A whileback, I read a Roland press-release saying
> Microsoft had licensed the GM/GS format for DirectX, and I guess this is
> the result. The Microsoft Directmusic synth definitely uses the same
> patches (possibly higher-quality ones, since the included DLS file is
> ~4MB, or about 2X as large as the demo VSC-88 2.1)
>
Royce Shih-Wea Liao
: Hmm, I think most people agree that the Roland GM.DLS that Microsoft
: against it that make it unsuitable for most people. I think one of the
: major limitations in DLS currently is the lack of layers. Using layers can
: really fill out a sound. Eaxh sample in a DLS bank is basically on its own,
: and while the GM.DLS is nice, it really can't compare to most other software
: synths.
If that is true, than Roland's own VSC-88 must not be very good, either.
The DirectMusic software synth (GM.DLS bank) sounds very similar to
Roland's VSC-88. I would guess, but can't verify, that VSC-88 renders
certain MIDI effects more accurately than MS's software synth, but most
MIDI files I tried didn't sound noticeably "better" with the VSC-88.
: I think that Yamaha's cards can download DLS files to the hardware, so you
: could download the Roland/Microsoft GM.DLS set if you wanted. There are
: also others out on the net. There are also programs like AWave and Audio
: Compositor that convert SF2 files over to DLS.
Yamaha's latest DS-XG reference drivers don't seem to accelerate DLS. I
could be reading the DirectX diagnostic tool incorrectly, though.
Royce Shih-Wea Liao
: Are you talking about GM.DLS? I've had a Roland SCC-1 for more than 5
: SoundCanvas. Not close at all... you can TELL the GM.DLS patches are
: SoundCanvas sounds from their various nuances....but they don't have
: anything resembling SoundCanvas quality.
GM.DLS sounds very close to Roland's VSC-88. I might not have made this
clear, but VSC-88 is a *software* synth ("Virtual" sound canvas) put out
by Roland. Just curious, do you think you could download the VSC-88 demo
(www.rolandcorp.com) and compare it's playback quality to your SCC-1?
David Gasior
...
>If that is true, than Roland's own VSC-88 must not be very good, either.
The Roland soft synth software may use multiple layers. The limitation of
layers is with the DLS sound bank format. Roland and Yamaha may have
written in support for layers for their respective software synths.
>Yamaha's latest DS-XG reference drivers don't seem to accelerate DLS. I
>could be reading the DirectX diagnostic tool incorrectly, though.
The DirectX diagnostic tool reports every card does not do DLS. It's not
the way to tell.
mbg
says...
Just gave it a try...it's not bad! But it does sound like there's been
some heavy compression.. so it's not bad for the intended purpose, but it
isn't up to the quality of a hardware SoundCanvas....there's a definite
crispness lacking in the sounds. The SoundCanvas patches are really clear
and sharp.
I gave it a try with the High Quality setting. If you want me to send you
a sample of the hardware synth, just drop me a line...remove "SPAMOFF"
from my e-mail address :)
Matt.
Royce Shih-Wea Liao
: The Roland soft synth software may use multiple layers. The limitation of
: written in support for layers for their respective software synths.
Does DLS2 support multiple layers?
: >Yamaha's latest DS-XG reference drivers don't seem to accelerate DLS. I
: >could be reading the DirectX diagnostic tool incorrectly, though.
:
: The DirectX diagnostic tool reports every card does not do DLS. It's not
: the way to tell.
Hehe, the DIrectX diagnostic tool reports the Microsoft synth as DLS
capable :)
David Gasior
>Does DLS2 support multiple layers?
Yes.
>Hehe, the DIrectX diagnostic tool reports the Microsoft synth as DLS
>capable :)
What a coincidence. :)
Neal Stoughton
>
> The DirectX diagnostic tool reports every card does not do DLS. It's not
> the way to tell.
>
I can't seem to get the directX software synth. to be utilized by software
programs. Specifically, I have no problem with the test of the software synth.
using the directX diagnostic program. But under control panel/multimedia/midi,
the only device that shows up is "Crystal FM Synthesis". How can I enable the
software synth.? I'm using Win98 and directX 6.1. Thanks.
Howard W.
>I can't seem to get the directX software synth. to be utilized by software
>programs. Specifically, I have no problem with the test of the software synth.
>using the directX diagnostic program. But under control panel/multimedia/midi,
>the only device that shows up is "Crystal FM Synthesis". How can I enable the
>software synth.? I'm using Win98 and directX 6.1. Thanks.
Sorry, Microsoft won't allow that.
Great tool, eh?
Actually, I think developers can access the DLS synth when authoring
Microsoft software.
The text below is included with the Roland DLS waveset DirX 6.1 installs.
"The GM.DLS file contains the Roland SoundCanvas Sound Set which is
protected under the following copyright:
Roland GS Sound Set/Microsoft (P) 1996 Roland Corporation U.S.
The Roland SoundCanvas Sound Set is licensed under Microsoft's
End User License Agreement for use with Microsoft operating
system products only. All other uses require a separate written
license from Roland." MS-
howard
David Gasior
>I can't seem to get the directX software synth. to be utilized by software
>programs.
On older sound cards, the only way to get the Roland/Microsoft GM.DLS as the
default synth is if you use the WDM drivers that ship on the Windows 98 CD.
Neal Stoughton
> In article <3756425A...@uci.edu>, nmst...@uci.edu says ...
>
> >I can't seem to get the directX software synth. to be utilized by software
> >programs.
>
> On older sound cards, the only way to get the Roland/Microsoft GM.DLS as the
> default synth is if you use the WDM drivers that ship on the Windows 98 CD.
>
Can you please explain the procedure to obtain the WDM drivers? In my case I
went to control panel/system/device manager/sound, video and game controllers
I tried to update the two drivers there from the win98 disk and was told that I
already am using the latest drivers. Thanks.
David Gasior
>Can you please explain the procedure to obtain the WDM drivers?
The WDM drivers are on the Windows 98 CD. If one of the sound cards is
found that it has drivers for, it will attempt to use those when the OS is
first installed. If you already had later drivers installed, then it may
not let you go back easily.
Jeffery S. Jones
Liao) wrote:
>I got bored and downloaded the DirectX 6.1 SDK (yeah all ~80MB of it.)
>
>I was fiddling with the DirectMUSIC sample programs, in particular a
>program which plays MIDI files to the DirectMusic API. After trying out
>some game MIDI files (warcraft II, Wing Commander III, etc.), I noticed
>striking similarities between the supplied 4MB GM DLS soundbank and
>Roland's VSC-88. A whileback, I read a Roland press-release saying
>Microsoft had licensed the GM/GS format for DirectX, and I guess this is
>the result. The Microsoft Directmusic synth definitely uses the same
>patches (possibly higher-quality ones, since the included DLS file is
>~4MB, or about 2X as large as the demo VSC-88 2.1)
For games, it may not be superior. For other purposes, such as
listening to music MIDIs on the net, the VSC-88 may still be a better
deal, since it is a full GS synth, not GM, and there is more to the
synth than just its patches.
>Given VSC-88's ridiculous cpu requirements, and very decent
>sound-quality of Microsoft's DirectMusic software synth, I'd say Roland
>has wiped itself out of the consumer PC multimedia market for good.
Unlikely, since they license their tech to a number of other sound
card makers, and the VSC technology has other options. Also, you need
a Win98 PC to use DirectMusic (at least so far), and the VSC will work
with older OS machines.
>Likewise, I picked up a Yamaha 724 PCI (DS-1 XG) from Fry's. I already
>had Yamaha's YXG-50 software synthesizer on my PC. Guess what? The
>724-PCI's MIDI soundbank and YXG-50 software synth soundback sound
>identical. The DS-XG does sound crisper, and that's probably due to the
>larger included waveset (2.5MB for the DS-XG vs the 2.0MB YXG-50 demo) I
>tried to copy over the YXG-50's (\windows\system\sxgwave2.tbl) soundbank,
>but I could not force the YXG-50 synth to use the DS-XG's soundbank.
Plus the use of hardware in the DS-XG synth rather than purely
software for effects. When you add that the soft synth and clone 724
cards cost about the same (depends on where you shop), why not use
hardware instead of software, and save your CPU (and memory) space.
>Is there a larger (>2.5MB) patch set available for the Yamaha DS-XG? What
>about Yamaha's Waveforce 192XG? Does anyone know if the Waveforce
>software comes with a (better) different patchset?
No, there is no substitution for the software synth. I don't know
how large a sample set the DS-XG can use, but it should support DLS
technology with its own synth engine.
--
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