Free to good home: IBM RT UNIX

Andrew

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Jan 31, 2006, 7:46:56 PM1/31/06

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Greetings.

THE GOOD
========
Moving again, and it's time to face the reality that I'm never going to
get around to this project. Thus, I am giving away free to a good home
(you pick up in Portland, OR, or pay actual cost to ship) one IBM RT,
"an early workstation from IBM, based on the IBM '032' or ROMP CPU",
"also known as the model 6150, 6151, and 6152." If you don't know what
this is, you probably don't want it. It was basically a precursor to the
RS/6000, manufactured circa 1986. It will run AIX UNIX, or AOS (a 4.3BSD
derivative). I have tons of parts and extra cards for this beast. Extra
CPUs, a number of ESDI disk drives, a monitor, a very cool old-school
IBM two-button mouse, a tape drive, etc. It's all there. I do not have
part numbers or pictures of this stuff, but if there is any interest I
will be glad to photograph everything.

THE BAD
=======
This machine does not run. It is in pieces. In my younger, more
energetic (read: college) days I had planned to put it together and get
it working, just for the fun of it. I believe everything is there to
make it run, but it will take some work, and I make no guarantees. The
machine has been shuffled about a bit, and although it's been moved with
care, there is always the possibility of damage. Note that I really
would prefer not to part this out; I'd like the whole basket case to go
to one person who will find some use for it. Think of it as a sad,
neglected orphan in need of a little tender care.

THE UGLY
========
This stuff is heavy. If you want to pick it up in Portland I will help
you load it into your vehicle. If you'd like it sent to you I will box
everything up with lots of foam peanuts and charge you the cost of
shipping, but I would expect it to be expensive. Paypal preferred.

See here for more about the RT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC/RT
http://www.damage.fi/slas/rt/rtpics.html <-- pictures, but NOT of mine!

Regards,

and...@lod.com

Anne & Lynn Wheeler

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Jan 31, 2006, 8:18:29 PM1/31/06

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Andrew <and...@lod.com> writes:
> Greetings.
>
> THE GOOD
> ========
> Moving again, and it's time to face the reality that I'm never going to
> get around to this project. Thus, I am giving away free to a good home
> (you pick up in Portland, OR, or pay actual cost to ship) one IBM RT,
> "an early workstation from IBM, based on the IBM '032' or ROMP CPU",
> "also known as the model 6150, 6151, and 6152." If you don't know what
> this is, you probably don't want it. It was basically a precursor to the
> RS/6000, manufactured circa 1986. It will run AIX UNIX, or AOS (a 4.3BSD
> derivative). I have tons of parts and extra cards for this beast. Extra
> CPUs, a number of ESDI disk drives, a monitor, a very cool old-school
> IBM two-button mouse, a tape drive, etc. It's all there. I do not have
> part numbers or pictures of this stuff, but if there is any interest I
> will be glad to photograph everything.

does it have a megapel display? i had gotten an rt with megapel
display into a booth at '88 interop ... (kitty-corner mext to case's
snmp ... and case was talked into getting snmp up and running on the
machine for the show. old interop '88 postings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#interop

lots of collected 801, romp, rios, etc postings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Dave Griffith

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Jan 31, 2006, 8:41:20 PM1/31/06

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In alt.folklore.computers Andrew <and...@lod.com> wrote:

> Greetings.

[snip stuff about offering an IBM RT-PC]

I'd like to offer a mostly complete set of documentation for the RT-PC.
Just as in Andrew's offer, it's free to someone who'll give it a good
home and it's heavy. I live in Bakersfield, California.

--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

Michael Kraemer

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Feb 1, 2006, 7:21:37 AM2/1/06

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In article <drp0e...@news4.newsguy.com>, Andrew <and...@lod.com> writes:

> It will run AIX UNIX, or AOS (a 4.3BSD
> derivative).

do you have an idea where to get this software ?
IBM's answer on this one is usually:
"do you think we're a museum or what ?" :-(

Andrew

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Feb 2, 2006, 4:08:05 PM2/2/06

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Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> Andrew <and...@lod.com> writes:
>

[..]

>>(you pick up in Portland, OR, or pay actual cost to ship) one IBM RT,
>>"an early workstation from IBM, based on the IBM '032' or ROMP CPU",
>>"also known as the model 6150, 6151, and 6152." If you don't know what
>>this is, you probably don't want it. It was basically a precursor to the
>>RS/6000, manufactured circa 1986. It will run AIX UNIX, or AOS (a 4.3BSD
>>derivative). I have tons of parts and extra cards for this beast. Extra
>>CPUs, a number of ESDI disk drives, a monitor, a very cool old-school
>>IBM two-button mouse, a tape drive, etc. It's all there. I do not have
>>part numbers or pictures of this stuff, but if there is any interest I
>>will be glad to photograph everything.
>
>
> does it have a megapel display? i had gotten an rt with megapel

No, no megapel. Just a couple of mammoth monochrome video display cards.

Unfortunately, there's not much interest in this machine so far (one
reply). *sigh*

Regards,

and...@lod.com

Edward A. Feustel

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Feb 3, 2006, 8:05:19 AM2/3/06

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"Andrew" <and...@lod.com> wrote in message
news:drtsb...@news3.newsguy.com...

> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>> Andrew <and...@lod.com> writes:
>>
>
> [..]
>
>>>(you pick up in Portland, OR, or pay actual cost to ship) one IBM RT, "an
>>>early workstation from IBM, based on the IBM '032' or ROMP CPU", "also
>>>known as the model 6150, 6151, and 6152." If you don't know what this is,
>>>you probably don't want it. It was basically a precursor to the RS/6000,
>>>manufactured circa 1986. It will run AIX UNIX, or AOS (a 4.3BSD
>>>derivative). I have tons of parts and extra cards for this beast. Extra
>>>CPUs, a number of ESDI disk drives, a monitor, a very cool old-school IBM
>>>two-button mouse, a tape drive, etc. It's all there. I do not have part
>>>numbers or pictures of this stuff, but if there is any interest I will be
>>>glad to photograph everything.
>>
>>

Have you tried the Computer History Museum?
You'd probably have to ship it to them.
You'd get a tax deduction though.
Ed

Steven N. Hirsch

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Feb 3, 2006, 7:40:18 PM2/3/06

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Michael Kraemer wrote:
> In article <drp0e...@news4.newsguy.com>, Andrew <and...@lod.com> writes:
>
>> It will run AIX UNIX, or AOS (a 4.3BSD
>> derivative).
>
> do you have an idea where to get this software ?

They can both be come by on the net with a little poking about.

Tux Wonder-Dog

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Feb 4, 2006, 4:37:56 AM2/4/06

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Steven N. Hirsch wrote:

I have a _dream_!
(Okay, to bring it down to earth, a wish that IBM would consider old
operating systems and tools, etc, including their source code, as both
fodder for future students and as an inexpensive means to bring people up
to speed on IBM equipment, which are no longer the first-in-line for people
to use or experience in training. And AOS features in this as an example
of how IBM took from the Unix community an OS with apparently few of the
IBM-specific features that might conceivably prevent IBM from releasing it
plus source under the original BSD license.)

Dreams are free, and IBM's still got to see the PR and goodwill (accountancy
term) aspects of this, much less connect up all the other dots ... ;)

Wesley Parish
--
"Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was
lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I
get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she
fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.
Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!

Jay Maynard

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Feb 4, 2006, 7:55:04 AM2/4/06

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On 2006-02-04, Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.p...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> I have a _dream_!
> (Okay, to bring it down to earth, a wish that IBM would consider old
> operating systems and tools, etc, including their source code, as both
> fodder for future students and as an inexpensive means to bring people up
> to speed on IBM equipment, which are no longer the first-in-line for people
> to use or experience in training.

I certainly won't disagree, considering I've been arguing for it for their
mainframe software for years now...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.cx
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Michael Kraemer

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Feb 4, 2006, 9:09:38 AM2/4/06

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In article <gZWdnZ_UWqJuan7e...@adelphia.com>, "Steven N. Hirsch"

<shi...@adelphia.net> writes:
> They can both be come by on the net with a little poking about.

Tried that already. I found some site with a link which seemed
to point to what I was looking for (ftp.ps-2.org or so), unfortunately
this site is irresponsive, as is the maintainer of the link :-(

Steven N. Hirsch

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Feb 4, 2006, 9:41:47 AM2/4/06

to

Tux Wonder-Dog wrote:

>> They can both be come by on the net with a little poking about.
>
> I have a _dream_!
> (Okay, to bring it down to earth, a wish that IBM would consider old
> operating systems and tools, etc, including their source code, as both
> fodder for future students and as an inexpensive means to bring people up
> to speed on IBM equipment, which are no longer the first-in-line for people
> to use or experience in training. And AOS features in this as an example
> of how IBM took from the Unix community an OS with apparently few of the
> IBM-specific features that might conceivably prevent IBM from releasing it
> plus source under the original BSD license.)

In real life, I work for IBM and understand the legal thinking a bit.
I'm going to guess that AOS contains portions of code and/or techniques
licensed from third-parties. It would be a surprisingly major job to
get permission to distribute from all the stakeholders, and perhaps just
as major an operation to identify and remove all such things.

Not to mention that the internally-developed code may contain trade
secrets best kept, err, secret.

Standard disclaimer: IANAL and Big Blue pays me to develop software, not
spout legal opinions in public fora. This is just one-man's personal
take - not speaking for IBM, blah, blah.

Steve

Anne & Lynn Wheeler

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Feb 4, 2006, 10:40:07 AM2/4/06

to

Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.p...@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> I have a _dream_! (Okay, to bring it down to earth, a wish that IBM
> would consider old operating systems and tools, etc, including their
> source code, as both fodder for future students and as an
> inexpensive means to bring people up to speed on IBM equipment,
> which are no longer the first-in-line for people to use or
> experience in training. And AOS features in this as an example of
> how IBM took from the Unix community an OS with apparently few of
> the IBM-specific features that might conceivably prevent IBM from
> releasing it plus source under the original BSD license.)

???

note that old operating systems and source use to be freely available.
both cp67 and vm370 were free and shipped with source and source
maint. some of this may be picked up with respect to hercules
activity.

the big issue was the gov. (and other) litigation that resulted in the
6/23/69 unbundling announced when application software started be
priced/charged. kernel software was still bundled (and free) under the
policy that it was required to operate the hardware.

i had made extensive cp67 source modifications as undergraduate and a
lot of it was picked up and shipped in the product (dynamic adaptive
scheduling policies, fairshare policy, working set like operationg,
page replacement stuff, lots of pathlength optimization, etc). some
amount of that was dropped in the morph to vm370. some amount of
customer advocacy (in share user group organization and other places)
resulted in being able to package and (re-)release some of it as the
resource manager (in 1976). however, resource manager was tagged as
the guinea pig for pricing kernel software (somewhat motivated by
clone 370 processors being able to pickup free kernel). misc. past
unbundling related posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#unbundle

the advent of clone processors continued pressure on software and in
the early 80s you started to see the "OCO" wars (object code only)
where there was push to not only to charge for (unbundled) software
but also to stop shipping source.

also in the early 80s, ibm formed (academic) ACIS organization ... and
initially provided with $300m to give away to educational institutions
for computer related stuff. CMU activity got $50m (mach, camelot,
andrew, etc). MIT (project athena) got $25m (project athena also got
matching $25m from dec; project athena saw things like X-windows,
kerberos, etc). CSNET and later NSFNET backbone got some amount.
Independent of CSNET (& NSFNET) there was a lot poured into BITNET
(and EARN in europe). misc. bitnet & earn posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet

minor specific csnet, nsfnet refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietf.htm#history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#nsfnet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0

ACIS group was also responsible for doing BSD-based AOS for PC/RT.
The ACIS also took LOCUS (another unix-alike from UCLA, i don't know
how much of the initial $300m, acis may have provided to ucla or
Berkeley) and it was turned into AIX/370 (later aix/esa) and AIX/PS2
products.

A lot of the various IBM funded activities ... later fed into OSF
(open software foundation) for stuff like DCE (distributed computing
environment) which drew on mach, andrew and locus, etc work. couple
random osf (open software foundation) refs:
http://www.auditmypc.com/acronym/OSF.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Software_Foundation
http://www.opengroup.org/dce/

note that cmu's mach also shows up in other places like the basis for
the (current) apple operating system. in the middle of our doing
ha/cmp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
the executive we reported to, moved over to head up somerset ... the
apple, motorola, ibm, etc ... effort to do a single-chip version
of rios/801/power ... somerset turned out the power/pc chips ...
used by apple and for some number of other things.

i've joked in the past about ibm paying three times for transarc work
... the initial $50m grant to cmu, the initial investment when
transarc was spun off from cmu, and then when they bought transarc
outright.

in the late 70s there had been a big push to consolidated a wide
variety of internal microprocessors to 801 risc. by the early 80s, the
primary surviving was the office products effort with ROMP for
displaywriter replacement using pl.8 and cpr. when the displaywriter
follow-on was killed, somebody observed that a lot of hardware vendors
were turning out unix workstation systems with much reduced effort
(doing a unix port). it was decided to retarget romp to the unix
workstation market and the company that had taken at&t unix and turned
out pc/ix (for the ibm/pc) was contracted to do a similar port for
romp. this became the pc/rt (and the aix unix for the pc/rt ... as
opposed to various other AIXs like aix/370 and aix/ps2 that came from
other origins). misc. romp, rios, 801, power, posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

the pc/rt was also the target for the bsd-based AOS effort. it had
initially started out as doing a port to 370. that got side-tracked to
the pc/rt. however, essentially the same group also did the ucla locus
stuff for aix/370 and aix/ps2. I had been doing some stuff for getting
a C-language front end to the 370 pascal compiler. in the middle of
this, the person left and joined metaware in santa cruz. when the aos
for 370 group started up, i talked them into working with metaware for
a c compiler for the port. when aos got retargeted to the pc/rt they
retained the use of the metaware compiler for the effort.

Tim Clarke

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Feb 4, 2006, 10:45:44 AM2/4/06

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"Michael Kraemer" <m.kr...@gsi.de> wrote in message
news:ds2cj2$62f$1...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de...

That's Pete Backhouse's site. He's a pal of mine (and not too far away,
geographically speaking) from the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware NG, but I have
to get in touch with him soon, to exchange some things, so I'll check that
out. Lob a post on c.s.i.p.h if you need an update on Pete's or his site's
statuses.
--
Regards,
Tim Clarke (a.k.a. WBST)
Guildford, U.K.

Dan Linder

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Feb 5, 2006, 12:29:45 PM2/5/06

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On 2006-02-02, Andrew <and...@lod.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, there's not much interest in this machine so far (one
> reply). *sigh*

Andrew -

I've previously rescued RT hardware (sometimes driving as much as 1,000
miles, but that's because I like a good road trip) but 4,280 miles
round-trip is a bit much even for me, especially when I'm contemplating a
cross-country move myself.

I've built up a good set of machines, boards, and manuals and hope that,
some day, I will have enough spare time to get NetBSD running on these
most interesting machines.

Sorry I can't offer more help right now -

Dan

--
dli...@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org