USB stick leaking

[Linea Recta]

I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I keep
using the stick normally?



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

[Wolf K]

On 2017-04-20 13:13, Linea Recta wrote:
> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
> stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
> the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I keep
> using the stick normally?

Probably glue, reacting with the plastic's filler. Or filler itself.
Filler is used to control hardness, colour, flexibility, etc. In cheap
plastics, it will react with air (oxygen), water, etc.

I'd copy everything off it, maybe try to fix it, more likely trash it.
Lexar is a good brand, I wonder if you purchased a fake.

--
Best,
Wolf K
https://kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"What good is it having lower taxes when you can’t drink the water?”

[VanguardLH]

Linea Recta <bleep...@bleep.invalid> wrote:

> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer.

Yep, sure, Lexar has only one model of USB drive. See:
http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-flash-drives.html

> I haven't used the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is
> leaking sticky stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the
> stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?

Inside a legit USB drive, there is a PCB, chips, connector, and some
solder. None of that leaks. Some use silicon to seal them. Maybe this
is the goo that overheated and is leaking out.

http://blog.premiumusb.com/2011/02/why-flash-drive-get-hot/

They all heat up with use. A plastic shell versus a metal shell only
changes the thermal transfer rate; i.e., a metal shelled USB drive may
feel hotter than a plastic one - but they both generate heat during use.
Defective ones get hot. USB ports can go bad and supply too much
current. Some users plug into charging-capable USB ports designed for
smartphones, not USB flash drives. Test plugging if another USB device
into the same port (and not a charging USB port) also heats up too much.
Condensation inside the shell can cause shorts (that cause heating up)
or corrode contacts (causing heat due to increased resistance).

Yours overheated. Return it under warranty.

[Paul]

Linea Recta wrote:
> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
> the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff
> from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can
> I keep using the stick normally?
>

All the Lexars I have here (three of them) have the same
mechanical design. I've taken two of them apart, because
they failed and no longer function.

There is the bottom tub, the PCB and connector which slide
back and forth, and a white top cover. The top cover has
four prongs that snap into place. There are no liquids inside.

__P__________P__
/ \
| |
\________________/
P P

You can release the top cover and get it out.
That's the white part in this picture.

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDrive-Flash-LJDS73-32GASBNA-Orange/dp/B007B6YPNY

*******

Lexar makes many many different drives, and not all use
the same packaging.

*******

Ordinary USB flash drives, do not have thermal control.
Any heat dissipated, could flow through the metal connector
barrel (except for those cheap-ass Lexars with the plastic
barrel, which I recommend you avoid).

In terms of hardware design, if you want thermal control, you need:

1) Thermally conductive cover. Some SSDs use a metal sled for this.
2) Sil Pad or thermal paste. If something in a drive gets really hot,
you can use a Sil Pad as an intermediary, to conduct heat into the
cover.

Since USB flash drives, a lot of them have plastic covers, using
Sil Pads or thermal paste would be a waste of materials.

For a metal-jacketed product, the metal itself may be good
enough to encourage a lower internal temperature.

If a component becomes really hot, using a Sil Pad to
conduct from the chip to the cover might work. It depends
on dimensional analysis, whether a Sil Pad will work,
or curable silicon rubber is needed. Generally, thermal control
materials are too expensive for throwaway items like USB
sticks. The roll of Sil Pads we had at work, cost $500.00
per roll.

The color and consistency of the material may suggest what
it is. If the stuff is a bright white color, that could be
Zinc Oxide in silicone oil. The ones I've used, the oil
quickly separates and leaves the area. Leaving a spotty
Zinc Oxide residue to support cooling.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/greases-and-lubricants/thermal-greases/silicone-heat-transfer-compound-860

Real thermal pastes, are made from a more viscous substrate.
Some are so thick, they resemble "crumbly cookie dough" and
they're hard to spread into place. Those should not leak a
liquid. There are thinner ones, like a graphite-like material
in a less viscous oil substrate.

It would not be in the best interest of the company, to
use a liquid toxic substance in the construction. But,
you never know. There have been assemblies built in
electronics which are very dangerous (beryllia substrate).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_oxide

"BeO is carcinogenic and may cause chronic beryllium disease.
Once fired into solid form, it is safe to handle if not
subjected to machining that generates dust."

Some older products, there would be a warning sticker saying
"not to grind" the item the warning sticker was adhered to. Because
it was made of beryllia. That's the nastiest example I can think of.

Paul

[Linea Recta]

"Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:odaq2j$3ed$1...@dont-email.me...

The stick looks like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDrive-TwistTurn-Flash-LJDTT4GBASBNA/dp/B0021AFWL4


but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:

lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
333074GBGA
N12610

product of China

[Linea Recta]

"Paul" <nos...@needed.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:odb0ih$qda$1...@dont-email.me...

Thanks for the info.
Mine is quite old indeed, but as said: not intensively used. I have several
other sticks of different make and indeed... with metal case.
BTW I had no idea that a USB stick is regarded as "throwaway item".

(For details see my second message in the thread.)

[VanguardLH]

Linea Recta <bleep...@bleep.invalid> wrote:

> "Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid> ...

>
>> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
>> the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
>> stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
>> toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
>

> The stick looks like this one:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-JumpDrive-TwistTurn-Flash-LJDTT4GBASBNA/dp/B0021AFWL4
>
> but I took a magnifying glass to read what's exactly on mine:
>
> lexar LJDTT4GB-000-1001AC
> 333074GBGA
> N12610
>
> product of China

http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-flash-drives/Lexar-JumpDrive-TwistTurn-USB-Flash-Drive.html

Those are not listed as waterproof/resistant so there should be no
silicone filling to ooze out (but shouldn't anyway since, when it set,
silicone is not going to ooze but burn from an overheated chip).

Is what oozed out soft or hard? Is it like paste that you can smoosh
between your fingers, like toothpaste? Is it rubbery, like silicone
caulking? It is hard, like the plastic shell itself?

[Paul]

LJDTT4GBASBNA

The Amazon reviews say average write is 3.2MB/sec, average read
is 18.2MB/sec. It's an old style single channel flash, and should
not run hot, and should not need any liquids or pastes inside.
There are the usual reports of failures, but none involving
liquids or sticky substances.

I would have the hack saw out by now, and cut it in half...

For thermal paste, they recommend soap and water for cleanup,
or maybe a bit of GooGone (monoterpene limonene a.k.a orange oil).
Thermal paste doesn't go that well on crackers, even though it
looks like a good spread for canapés.

Sil Pads contain their contents pretty well, and only
extreme pressure on them, might cause the carrier to ooze out.
The item just doesn't look like it needs that kind of thing.

Paul

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:36:38 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
wrote:

Then each half world only be 2GB--not enough to be really useful.
<vbg>

[Linea Recta]

"VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> schreef in bericht
news:elsnmp...@mid.individual.net...

It is sticky and quite soft. Colour: transparent yellowish.
I tried to clean it, but it seems the red colour of the case comes off
now...
BTW I'm not aware the stick ran hot.

[VanguardLH]

"transparent yellowish" had me first think it was solder rosin (aka
resin aka flux); however, the chips, connector, and other components are
wave soldered onto the PCB. If rosin were oozing out, I'd suspect
someone refurbished the device by, for example, replacing the memory
chip and they had to use a rework station that employed rosin to assist
in removing the chip, dewicking the solder off the chip, and later when
soldering the new chip onto the pads on the PCB. When using rosin, and
in a rework lab, there is usually a bath where the parts are dipped or
sprayed to remove the excess rosin. Another possibility is excessive
application of rosin during original manufacturer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CalydGKwEy8

That shows a guy removing a memory chip and noticed there was excessive
rosin left behind. Rosin doesn't flow at room temperature. That's why
it stays in the core of solder thread that incorporates solder inside of
it. It does flow when heated. Just because it doesn't feel hot to you
does not mean the chip(s) was not hot. All USB flash drives generate
heat. A plastic case has a slower transfer rate than metal. That means
a plastic cased USB flash drive will dissipate heat more slowly and it
also means you won't feel as much heat. A metal cased drive will feel
hotter to the touch than with the same PCB and components on it inside
of a plastic case.

The shell is typically 2 halves made of plastic that are snapped
together. Maybe the soft stuff was a sealant. I'm guessing rosin.
Original manufacture would leave almost no rosin behind. Little, if
any, would be used during original manufacture and if any were used then
the PCB goes through a bath to remove the rosin. Maybe you got a
remanufactured device. Refurbished usually means just testing and
passing the device on if testing is successful. Most times, refurbish
has nothing physically done to the device. Remanufacture means
rebuilding some of it.

I don't have any of those so I cannot pop one apart to look inside.
Haven't found a Youtube video about USB drive disassembly that looks at
that specific brand and model. The above video is for a Lexar JumpDrive
but a different model. The video author noticed excess rosin on the
memory chip at timemark 5:50. He uses a hot air desoldering station
which does not apply any flux. What he noted on the memory chip was
already there. The flux was on the underside of the chip (between chip
and PCB). So the manufacture process used flux (rosin) but did not do a
good job at washing it off. It is a tight fit between chip and board
but the flux was all over the bottomside of the chip. Seems Lexar's
manufacture process is sloppy with rosin since it only needs to be
applied for soldering the pins on the chip and nowhere as much on the
pins as what is shown sticking to the bottomside of this chip in this
video. Sloppy manufacture.

[Paul]

Well, maybe. Some of the USB flash sticks are double sided, and would
use double-IR reflow, with water soluble flux (used with the new solders).
The flux is washed off after the soldering steps. (Gone are the days when
the washing machine was filled with trike, and the fluid was filthy and
left a film.) I worked early enough in the industry, to receive boards
that were improperly washed with the old solvent.

I worked early enough, to see our own blank PCB manufacturing facility.
With tanks of vile dark fluids (etchant and plate-up), the press for
laminating the boards, and so on. Later, all that work was farmed out,
and the PCB plant removed. The plant for that was poorly lit, and it
looked like a medieval torture chamber of some sort.

*******

The USB connector would be a different matter, as some of those
are thru-hole. So the entire manufacturing process may require
three steps. With the USB keys done in large sheets, and sawed
up afterwards. You could not run a item like that through a
standard manufacturing line, because it's too small. The boards
usually have a keepout zone on the edges, so the board can ride on
rails as it goes through the IR oven. I'm not aware of the
details of how they're sawed and milled later. At one time,
a cruder technique (tiny boards snapped off along a perforation
line) was the technique of the day. But professionally prepared
product today seems to be milled on all edges. I didn't see
any kind of milling, sawing, or cleaving equipment at my work.

I didn't live at the factory, and only got to visit. We didn't
have a "tightly integrated" manufacturing organization, so I
was spared frequent, long drives, to the factory. One other
company in town, the "factory" is only a hundred feet from
your desk. And you'd never get a moments peace.

*******

I can't think of a material that's a good match for "transparent yellowish"
and belongs on an electronics board. And is chemically strong
enough to remove a finish on the chassis. Normally, any chemicals
are precisely applied, and the curing steps are finished well
before the product leaves the factory.

If BGA chips are used on the PCB, the ball count is low enough
that "underfill" is not required. The material that is used
for underfill, may fit that description. Underfill is used
on things like GPUs or maybe a Northbridge or Southbridge.
Maybe around 1500 balls or so, could use some underfill,
especially if diurnal temperature variation has a wide
enough swing (GPUs that get burning hot). Underfill is used
for stress relief, so the solder balls don't crack or shear off.

If you want to learn more about underfill materials, most have
patents, so you can track down the chemistry that way.

Paul

[T]

On 04/20/2017 10:30 AM, Wolf K wrote:
> On 2017-04-20 13:13, Linea Recta wrote:
>> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used the
>> stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky stuff from
>> the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it toxic? Can I
>> keep
>> using the stick normally?
>
> Probably glue, reacting with the plastic's filler. Or filler itself.
> Filler is used to control hardness, colour, flexibility, etc. In cheap
> plastics, it will react with air (oxygen), water, etc.
>
> I'd copy everything off it, maybe try to fix it, more likely trash it.
> Lexar is a good brand, I wonder if you purchased a fake.
>

1+

Kanguru and Kingston are also good brands

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

>>> "Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid> schreef in bericht
>>> news:odaq2j$3ed$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
>>>> the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
>>>> stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
>>>> toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?

[]
An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!

Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least
no-one can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as
described), could it be that you - or someone in your household - has
dropped it in something, or dropped something on it (possibly from
something leaking above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming
out?

[Does it smell or taste funny/good/bad? No responsibility taken if you
try, mind (-:!]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.

[Paul]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> []
>>>> "Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid> schreef in bericht
>>>> news:odaq2j$3ed$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
>>>>> the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
>>>>> stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
>>>>> toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
> []
> An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!
>
> Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least
> no-one can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as
> described), could it be that you - or someone in your household - has
> dropped it in something, or dropped something on it (possibly from
> something leaking above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming
> out?
>
> [Does it smell or taste funny/good/bad? No responsibility taken if you
> try, mind (-:!]

We were taught in chem class, not to do that :-) Naughty.

And the reason for the warning, is early chemists did this,
and some died of cancer. And the cancer type, correlated with
the sampling method (cancer of the tongue, mouth, etc).

Even the scientists who worked on radioactive elements,
had the misfortune to succumb to the stuff they were
working on.

Learning is hard.

Hindsight is perfect.

*******

I would think, if the compound had a smell, if would have
been mentioned by now :-)

When I took chem, one of the things you have to do, is you're
given an unknown organic compound, and you have to identify it.
You spend an entire term, one lab a week, trying various
instrumentation methods on it.

Now, being a clever noob, I immediately did a melting point
determination on mine. That reduced the set of possible compounds
to around 200 of them or so. (Using the CRC Chem tables which
are sorted by melting point.) And it's a good thing I did that
right away. Because soon after, the compound started to break
down on its own. And the byproducts smelled like... shit. Every
time I had to open the sample bottle, to get a little bit of
the stuff to place in some test instrument (NRM, Mass Spec, CHN),
I had to put up with that stink. No, we don't go out of our way
to sniff stuff like that :-) I'm sure the staff member in the
chem department who selected that compound, knew what they were
doing. Every student was given a unique compound, so you could
not compare notes and cheat. And the compounds seemed to be
pure when we received them. You grabbed a numbered sample bottle,
and off you went. And no, none of the compounds were "easy"
like something from this page.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ethylacetate/smells.htm

During open house at the university chem lab, one lab
used to synthesize some of those for... sniffing :-)

Probably by the time you've taken high school chem,
you've made something from that web page. Maybe
methyl salicylate ? That one is pretty easy.

Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <odfnm0$h6s$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
writes:

>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> []
>>>>> "Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid> schreef in bericht
>>>>> news:odaq2j$3ed$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
>>>>>> the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
>>>>>> stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
>>>>>> toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
>> []
>> An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!
>> Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least
>>no-one can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as
>>described), could it be that you - or someone in your household - has
>>dropped it in something, or dropped something on it (possibly from
>>something leaking above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming out?
>> [Does it smell or taste funny/good/bad? No responsibility taken if
>>you try, mind (-:!]
>
>We were taught in chem class, not to do that :-) Naughty.

Hence my final few words!

So far (I'm nearly 57) I've survived having such an enquiring mind ...

>
>And the reason for the warning, is early chemists did this,
>and some died of cancer. And the cancer type, correlated with
>the sampling method (cancer of the tongue, mouth, etc).

Certainly, those who made luminous instruments (for aircraft for use in
the dark, certain wristwatches, etc.), which used to be made with
radium-laden paint, suffered because they tended to lick their
paintbrushes to get a good point on them ...
[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I
have one. -Cato the Elder, statesman, soldier, and writer (234-149 BCE)

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I just heard an interview with the author of a book about those young
women, the radium painters. The author claims that they were *told to*
lick their paintbrushes.

Perce

[Percival P. Cassidy]

For a long time I bought Kingston RAM almost exclusively. Then a few
days after I bought the RAM that they recommended for my motherboard,
they took it off their recommended list, and just a few days later again
discontinued its production. Then there are the reports of Kingston
having submitted SSD samples for testing, then shipping out modules with
the same Model# but with inferior and slower components.

Perce

[NY]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote in message
news:nTtpWEkz...@soft255.demon.co.uk...

> []
>>>> "Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid> schreef in bericht
>>>> news:odaq2j$3ed$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>> I used a Lexar USB stick yesterday to boot a computer. I haven't used
>>>>> the stick intensively, but now I noticed that it is leaking sticky
>>>>> stuff from the seam on the sides. Any idea what the stuff is? Is it
>>>>> toxic? Can I keep using the stick normally?
> []
> An AMAZING amount of analysis from everybody!
>
> Since nobody seems to think it _really_ is coming out (or at least no-one
> can think of anything there'd be enough of to be oozing as described),
> could it be that you - or someone in your household - has dropped it in
> something, or dropped something on it (possibly from something leaking
> above it), such that it just _looks_ as if it's coming out?

Is it data leaking out of the drive? Has the "sticky bit" been set? :-)

[Paul]

There is a video here from a Kingston USB flash plant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFEYLFhKNUM

What impresses me most, is the degree of robotic handling.

All except the last step, where sticky labels are being
applied by hand! A win for humans.

So maybe the yellow substance, is grease that fell off one
of the machines :-\

In the video, you can see the milling machine that scribes
the product into individual flash drives. It's a kind of
plunge router.

I expected all the handling after scribing, to be done by humans,
but nope, a win for the robots instead. The humans just
stand around and give interviews.

Paul

[Rene Lamontagne]

The complexity of these robotic machines is amazing, Designing and
building these machines must be an art in itself.

Rene

[Linea Recta]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> schreef in bericht
news:nTtpWEkz...@soft255.demon.co.uk...

This surely shows you don't know my household.

[Brian Gregory]

On 20/04/2017 18:45, VanguardLH wrote:
> ... Some use silicon to seal them. ...

That's silicone.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

[Paul]

Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 20/04/2017 18:45, VanguardLH wrote:
>> ... Some use silicon to seal them. ...
>
> That's silicone.
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone

"More precisely called polymerized siloxanes or polysiloxanes,
silicones consist of an inorganic silicon-oxygen backbone
chain (⋯-Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-⋯) with organic side groups attached
to the silicon atoms. These silicon atoms are tetravalent.

R R
| | R = methyl, ethyl, phenol
- Si - O - Si - O ... (presumably "making a different
| | stink while they cure")
R R

Silicone is sometimes mistakenly referred to as silicon. The
chemical element silicon is a crystalline metalloid widely used
in computers and other electronic equipment."

So they bear some vague relationship, by appearing
in the same Wikipedia article :-)

And the metalloid, I've not heard that term before. Apparently,
that's English for "we've having trouble categorizing the
properties of this material" :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalloid

Paul

[Mike Easter]

Paul wrote:
> And the metalloid, I've not heard that term before. Apparently,
> that's English for "we've having trouble categorizing the
> properties of this material"

The eternal war between the lumpers and the splitters :-)

Once upon a time, the table was metals and non-metals. Lumpers in
charge. Then along came some splitters dancing between the lines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonmetal#Applicable_elements

The Talk section of the nonmetal article is fun, battling over the
metalloid controversies.

--
Mike Easter

[VanguardLH]

Brian Gregory <bvdvgvrv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> ... Some use silicon to seal them. ...
>
> That's silicone.

Keyboards often cannot keep up with my typing speed.
Sometimes my fingers don't do what I tell them to do.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:53:58 -0500, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Brian Gregory <bvdvgvrv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> ... Some use silicon to seal them. ...
>>
>> That's silicone.
>
>Keyboards often cannot keep up with my typing speed.

I'm the other way around. My typing speed can't keep up with my
keyboard. <g>

>Sometimes my fingers don't do what I tell them to do.

My fingers *never* do what I tell them to do, whether I'm typing or
playing my guitar.


But leaving aside the issues with typing, I might have made the same
mistake you did. I never thought about the difference between silicon
and silicone before.

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

I've been aware of the difference for nearly all of my life, or at least
since I became aware of such a thing as breast implants. Silicone, yes,
but silicon would hang like a rock. No one wants that.

Besides, everyone has heard of "Silicon Valley" in northern California.
Silicone Valley would be completely different. Los Angeles, perhaps?

--

Char Jackson

[VanguardLH]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> But leaving aside the issues with typing, I might have made the same
> mistake you did. I never thought about the difference between silicon
> and silicone before.

I know the difference. Just didn't manage to press long or deep enough
on the "e" key. I've done lots of home repair which includes
[re]sealing windows with caulking. That uses silicone. Silicon won't
squeeze out of a tube and it won't smooth out using a wet finger.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 00:26:18 -0500, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:

>Besides, everyone has heard of "Silicon Valley" in northern California.
>Silicone Valley would be completely different. Los Angeles, perhaps?

LOL!

[Gene Wirchenko]

Maybe he wore out his E key. On my keyboard, the E label has
just about worn out. I have had keyboards where I completely wore out
the E label. Then, there are the keys that I use so infrequently that
they have dust on them.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <d14tfc5q2uka4si3p...@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
<K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
[]

>But leaving aside the issues with typing, I might have made the same
>mistake you did. I never thought about the difference between silicon
>and silicone before.

Silicon - quite hard. Except for its use in the semiconductor industry,
I'm not aware of any use of the elemental form (more or less a metal,
except in the ultra-pure form used in semiconductors). We had a lump of
it in the school chemistry lab, I think - somewhere like that; although
an extremely common element, I don't _think_ most people will come
across it in its metallic form. It's compound with carbon is much used
in drilling, cutting, sharpening, etc., as it's extremely hard.

Silicone - a rubbery substance (does actually contain silicon atoms,
hence the name, along with other elements). Actually a family of such
substances. Often used as a sealant. Commonest use mentioned in the
media - breast implants.

Common mistakes: "silicone chip" for semiconductors; silicon for breast
implants (which would be very uncomfortable!).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced
water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer

[VanguardLH]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:

> Silicon - quite hard. Except for its use in the semiconductor industry,
> I'm not aware of any use of the elemental form (more or less a metal,
> except in the ultra-pure form used in semiconductors). We had a lump of
> it in the school chemistry lab, I think - somewhere like that; although
> an extremely common element, I don't _think_ most people will come
> across it in its metallic form. It's compound with carbon is much used
> in drilling, cutting, sharpening, etc., as it's extremely hard.
>
> Silicone - a rubbery substance (does actually contain silicon atoms,
> hence the name, along with other elements). Actually a family of such
> substances. Often used as a sealant. Commonest use mentioned in the
> media - breast implants.
>
> Common mistakes: "silicone chip" for semiconductors; silicon for breast
> implants (which would be very uncomfortable!).

The alchemists never perfected turning lead into gold. However, with
technology, we managed to turn sand (silicon dioxide) into gold.

http://www.dowcorning.com/content/discover/discoverchem/si-manufacturing.aspx
Now you all know why silicon and silicone are very similarly spelled.
There's no silicone without silicon.

[Paul]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> In message <d14tfc5q2uka4si3p...@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
> <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
> []
>> But leaving aside the issues with typing, I might have made the same
>> mistake you did. I never thought about the difference between silicon
>> and silicone before.
>
> Silicon - quite hard. Except for its use in the semiconductor industry,
> I'm not aware of any use of the elemental form (more or less a metal,
> except in the ultra-pure form used in semiconductors). We had a lump of
> it in the school chemistry lab, I think

It's grown in boules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process

And soon, they'll switch from 12" diameter to 18" diameter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafer_(electronics)

"The boule is then sliced with a wafer saw (wire saw) and polished
to form wafers. The size of wafers for photovoltaics is 100–200 mm
square and the *thickness* is 200–300 um. In the future, 160 um
will be the standard. Electronics use wafer sizes from 100–450 mm
diameter. (The largest wafers made have a diameter of 450 mm but
are not yet in general use.)
"

In modern fabs, the wafers are all handled by robots. Unlike our
fab, where one of the staff dropped our only working wafer of a
certain chip, on the floor :-) This is how the damn robots stole
all our jobs. A robot is never clumsy. As any accidents can
be blamed on "bad programming" (human programmer ? replace them) :-)

Paul

[Mark Lloyd]

On 04/25/2017 02:23 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[snip]

> Common mistakes: "silicone chip" for semiconductors; silicon for breast
> implants (which would be very uncomfortable!).

Yes. I've also heard "geranium diode".

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If we should put god in the Constitution there would be no room left
for man." [Robert G. Ingersoll]

[Rene Lamontagne]

Very interesting read, Thanks Paul.

Rene

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <odon5o$1m3$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
writes:

>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]

>> Silicon - quite hard. Except for its use in the semiconductor
>>industry, I'm not aware of any use of the elemental form (more or
>>less a metal, except in the ultra-pure form used in semiconductors).
>>We had a lump of it in the school chemistry lab, I think
>
>It's grown in boules.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process

I haven't read that ...

>
>And soon, they'll switch from 12" diameter to 18" diameter.

... but from that, and what you wrote subsequently, I assume that's the
crystal-pulling method using for making monocrystalline (and ultra-pure)
silicon, for semiconductor use. I don't know if there's any less arduous
(?) way for making "ordinary" silicon, mainly because I don't know if
there's any use for it - structural, or otherwise. (Unlike, say,
uranium, which does have uses outside those which involve its
radioactivity: for example, I remember quite a few years ago one of the
yachts in [I think it was] the Americas Cup had a keel made of uranium,
I think because it's very heavy [and probably not as soft as lead].) I
can't think of anything you'd use silicon of, say, only 90-96% purity
for (apart from samples in chem. labs, museums and the like!).
[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Capital flows toward lower costs like a river to lowest ground.
"MJ", 2015-12-05

[Paul]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <odon5o$1m3$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
> writes:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> []
>>> Silicon - quite hard. Except for its use in the semiconductor
>>> industry, I'm not aware of any use of the elemental form (more or
>>> less a metal, except in the ultra-pure form used in semiconductors).
>>> We had a lump of it in the school chemistry lab, I think
>>
>> It's grown in boules.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process
>
> I haven't read that ...
>>
>> And soon, they'll switch from 12" diameter to 18" diameter.
>
> ... but from that, and what you wrote subsequently, I assume that's the
> crystal-pulling method using for making monocrystalline (and ultra-pure)
> silicon, for semiconductor use. I don't know if there's any less arduous
> (?) way for making "ordinary" silicon, mainly because I don't know if
> there's any use for it - structural, or otherwise. (Unlike, say,
> uranium, which does have uses outside those which involve its
> radioactivity: for example, I remember quite a few years ago one of the
> yachts in [I think it was] the Americas Cup had a keel made of uranium,
> I think because it's very heavy [and probably not as soft as lead].) I
> can't think of anything you'd use silicon of, say, only 90-96% purity
> for (apart from samples in chem. labs, museums and the like!).
> []

Because it's brittle, I don't know if you'd want
to make things out of it.

And as for you having a sample in chem lab, I thought
the only thing school labs were guaranteed to have,
is Sodium metal in oil. One school lab I was in, had
a much-too-large bottle of the stuff, which I considered
to be a safety hazard. And not all school teachers
have a clue either - in junior high, an instructor
managed to set fire to the lecture table, a testament
to "knowing the material" real well :-) The students
in that case, reacted a lot better than I expected.
Nobody threw extra fuel on the fire.

Paul

[VanguardLH]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:

> uranium, which does have uses outside those which involve its
> radioactivity: for example, I remember quite a few years ago one of the
> yachts in [I think it was] the Americas Cup had a keel made of uranium,
> I think because it's very heavy [and probably not as soft as lead].

There are uranium tipped bullets (aka tank busters).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/may/18/armstrade.kosovo

[Mike Easter]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> one of the yachts in [I think it was] the Americas Cup had a keel made
> of uranium, I think because it's very heavy [and probably not as soft as
> lead].)

I don't know about America's Cup, but a Pen Duick racing yacht had a
depleted uranium keel ballast because DU is almost twice the density of
lead, so you get to have a lot more mass in a lot less 'bulk' down there.

--
Mike Easter

[Paul]

DU 19 gm/cm3
Pb 11.3 gm/cm3
Hg 13.5 gm/cm3
Au 19.3 gm/cm3

I was surprised by the results. I thought mercury
was a shoe-in.

Bill Gates would make his keel out of Gold.

Wikipedia lists this one is the densest naturally occurring one.

Osmium 22.59 g/cm3

Which implies the ones that can only be made in a
reactor or particle accelerator, for which we
could never get a keel-full anyway, could be higher.

In the table here, they didn't even bother to estimate
those ones. The ones at the very bottom, seem to be using
placeholders for names. The perils of transient species.

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic-chart-elements/density.htm

Paul

[Diesel]

Mark Lloyd <n...@mail.invalid> news:S3SLA.51919$0%5.4...@fx38.iad

Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:44:34 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

> On 04/25/2017 02:23 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Common mistakes: "silicone chip" for semiconductors; silicon for
>> breast implants (which would be very uncomfortable!).
>
> Yes. I've also heard "geranium diode".
>

Wow. I haven't heard that in years. :)


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

[Diesel]

"Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid>
news:odb41e$7jc$1...@dont-email.me Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:03:48 GMT in
alt.windows7.general, wrote:

> Thanks for the info.
> Mine is quite old indeed, but as said: not intensively used. I
> have several other sticks of different make and indeed... with
> metal case. BTW I had no idea that a USB stick is regarded as
> "throwaway item".

Oh, it gets better. They have a lifespan limit in the sense of max
reads/writes they'll take, too.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <odr64m$iri$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
writes:

>Mike Easter wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>> one of the yachts in [I think it was] the Americas Cup had a keel made
>>> of uranium, I think because it's very heavy [and probably not as soft as
>>> lead].)
>> I don't know about America's Cup, but a Pen Duick racing yacht had a
>>depleted uranium keel ballast because DU is almost twice the density
>>of lead, so you get to have a lot more mass in a lot less 'bulk' down
>>there.
>>
>
>DU 19 gm/cm3
>Pb 11.3 gm/cm3
>Hg 13.5 gm/cm3
>Au 19.3 gm/cm3
>
>I was surprised by the results. I thought mercury
>was a shoe-in.

For making keels, mercury has a certain disadvantage!

[I've often wondered why an obvious choice is a "shoe-in".]

>
>Bill Gates would make his keel out of Gold.

It's a bit soft.

>
>Wikipedia lists this one is the densest naturally occurring one.
>
>Osmium 22.59 g/cm3

(Is that more expensive than gold?)
[]
>http://www.lenntech.com/periodic-chart-elements/density.htm
>
> Paul
Hardness also required ...

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

And Jonathan Harker would never have sent all those letters to his beloved
Mina from Transylvania, he'd have texted her instead. "Stuck in weird castle w
guy w big teeth. Missing u. xxxx (-:" - Alison Graham, RT 2015/11/7-13

[Sjouke Burry]

On 26.04.17 2:44, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 04/25/2017 02:23 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Common mistakes: "silicone chip" for semiconductors; silicon for breast
>> implants (which would be very uncomfortable!).
>
> Yes. I've also heard "geranium diode".
>

What colour of flowers does it have?

[Wolf K]

On 2017-04-27 18:09, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <odr64m$iri$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
> writes:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>> one of the yachts in [I think it was] the Americas Cup had a keel made
>>>> of uranium, I think because it's very heavy [and probably not as soft as
>>>> lead].)
>>> I don't know about America's Cup, but a Pen Duick racing yacht had a
>>> depleted uranium keel ballast because DU is almost twice the density
>>> of lead, so you get to have a lot more mass in a lot less 'bulk' down
>>> there.
>>>
>>
>> DU 19 gm/cm3
>> Pb 11.3 gm/cm3
>> Hg 13.5 gm/cm3
>> Au 19.3 gm/cm3
>>
>> I was surprised by the results. I thought mercury
>> was a shoe-in.
>
> For making keels, mercury has a certain disadvantage!
>
> [I've often wondered why an obvious choice is a "shoe-in".]

It's a "shoo in", as in "to shoo = to utter a sound to make birds fly
away" (handy when they're attacking your garden). or to drive chickens
etc into the hen house at night (easy because they're used to it). Thus,
to drive away with little effort. Thus to move into office, etc, with
little effort on anybody's part. Nothing to do with footwear. Example of
onomatopoeia.

[...]

--
Best,
Wolf K
https://kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"What good is it having lower taxes when you can’t drink the water?”

[Paul]

Diesel wrote:
> "Linea Recta" <bleep...@bleep.invalid>
> news:odb41e$7jc$1...@dont-email.me Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:03:48 GMT in
> alt.windows7.general, wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info.
>> Mine is quite old indeed, but as said: not intensively used. I
>> have several other sticks of different make and indeed... with
>> metal case. BTW I had no idea that a USB stick is regarded as
>> "throwaway item".
>
> Oh, it gets better. They have a lifespan limit in the sense of max
> reads/writes they'll take, too.

Now, this is a USB stick. This is my go-to device
for OS installs (write new images onto it, then boot
from it).

https://www.amazon.com/OCZ-Turbo-Channel-Rally2-OCZUSBR2TDC-4GB/dp/B00154558C/145-9784288-5922141?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&deviceType=desktop

Based on the long life it's had, it seems to be SLC.
Someone in the reviews, comments to that effect. I cannot
take it apart, without damaging it.

I also have a couple sticks here, both Lexar branded,
which use TLC flash, and these died after one year of usage.

So a new 32GB stick at Walmart today for $10 to $20, expect
it to last around a year. That to me is a throwaway item,
not suited to archival storage. Whereas the Rally one
I've got, seems to hold up a lot better. OCZ got out
of the USB flash stick business, and OCZ also went out of
business. Toshiba bought the brand, and it's still
making SSD drives with Toshiba flash inside.

There was a company, a couple years ago, who introduced
a line of SLC sticks. But they've already crashed and
burned, so the company has disappeared from the market.
There weren't any reviews, and no actual verification it
was SLC, and not some sort of pseudo-SLC solution. Some
TLC flash chips, keep a small cache region with better
characteristics, and that's done to give deceptive burst
write speed (as otherwise, the TLC would seem slow).

Paul

[Paul]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> Hardness also required ...

https://marskeel.com/repair-modifications/draft-reductions/article-cut-your-keel-keep-your-boat/

"According to Mars Metal, over 90 percent of their bulb installations
are on boats with external lead keels, which are common on production
boats. Check with your manufacturer if you’re unsure about your keel.

If your boat has an iron keel you can install bulb halves, but
cutting it will be more difficult. Encapsulated keels present
several problems, not the least of which is finding out what kind
of ballast is really inside the keel. You may find yourself
cutting into lead shot, solid-lead blocks, iron blocks, or concrete.
Contact the builder to learn what you’re facing.
"

I'd heard of lead shot being used in keels, but according
to that article, there are at least two keel types. One
being solid. The other being a "container" for the
dense filler material.

There are even boats made with concrete hulls. With enough
buoyancy, they still float.

I'm just a land lubber, so discussions about rafts and folks-holes
and such, are foreign to me... A folks-hole is where you keep old
people when they get too old.

Paul