use of large (>540Mb) IDE on older computers
gary schreiber
: Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
: : Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
: : that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
: : I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
: : an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
: : It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
: : Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
: : I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
: : but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
: : that will allow me to use this drive.
: : thanks
: : misha
: Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
: IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
: trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however. I
: have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called EZ-Drive
: which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to get
: one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as they
: support larger drives.
GSI also makes an autodetecting ISA EIDE controller. I don't have a phone
number handy, but they were recommended to me by Western Digital, and I have
been VERY satisfied with the product and their Tech Support. They make
several different cards, including one card that supports up to *EIGHT* IDE
devices. The card I got is a primary/secondary controller and it was only
about $47... LaTeR.
--
Gary Schreiber | je...@yoda.roc.servtech.com
aka Jedi Master | je...@cyber1.servtech.com
aka K'dor, rider of brown Teth | jed...@delphi.com
of Desolate Weyr |
sta...@clark.net
CMeglio
Michael Umansky
that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
that will allow me to use this drive.
thanks
misha
--
NAME: Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com)
WORK: Convex Computer Corp; 3000 Waterview Parkway; Richardson, TX 75080
HOME: 10541 Sandpiper Lane; Dallas, TX 75230
PHONE: 214-497-4717 (work) 214-739-2461 (home) 214-739-2420 (fax/msg)
John Navas
mi...@convex.com (Michael Umansky) wrote:
>Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>that will allow me to use this drive.
Check with Tekram (BBS: 512-418-0821).
--
Best regards,
John <JNa...@NavasGrp.com> http://web.aimnet.com/~jnavas/
John Navas
sta...@clark.net () wrote:
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>IDE controllers.
Shhh. Don't tell my Tekram DC-620B, which is able to handle multi-gigabyte
IDE drives.
John Navas
je...@simu1.ele.cie.uva.es () wrote:
>sta...@clark.net wrote:
>: Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>: IDE controllers.
><deleted>
>False. The 528 Mb is a limitation of the stupid Microsoft BIOS that packs the
>cylinder into 10 bits, so, using the BIOS only 1024 cylinder drives are
>supported. The controller has 16 bits in the cylinder register, and therefore
>this limitation is not found. For example: LINUX can handle these huge
>drives without a problem, because it not use the BIOS anytime.
The original limitation came from the original hard disk controller
interface, and was reflected in the original IBM (not Microsoft) BIOS. It
was a function not only of cylinders but also of heads.
IDE drives that get around this limitation do so with remapping; e.g., the
Micropolis 4110A has a jumper option to appear to the system as two 500 Mb
drives, rather than one 1 Gb drive.
John Simonds
>Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
>: Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>: that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>
>: I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>: an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>: It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>: Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>: I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>: but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>: that will allow me to use this drive.
>: misha
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
to
>trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however.
I
>have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called
EZ-Drive
>which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to
get
>one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as
they
>support larger drives.
The ARCO ACideJL+ does what you are asking for with an on-board bios.
Hardware methods will always be faster than software with less
compatibility issues. CAll 305-925-2688
>
Matthew Ghio
>Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>
>I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>that will allow me to use this drive.
Linux bypasses the BIOS ROM, and can handle drives bigger than 540mb.
The only catch is that you must have a small boot partition below the
first 540mb. Read drivers/block/README.ide in the kernel distribition
for more info.
je...@simu1.ele.cie.uva.es
: Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
: IDE controllers.
<deleted>
False. The 528 Mb is a limitation of the stupid Microsoft BIOS that packs the
cylinder into 10 bits, so, using the BIOS only 1024 cylinder drives are
supported. The controller has 16 bits in the cylinder register, and therefore
this limitation is not found. For example: LINUX can handle these huge
drives without a problem, because it not use the BIOS anytime.
An IDE controller is only an extension of the ISA bus to the drive,
i.e. It only has an adress decoder in the board. The controller is included
in the IDE drive.
--
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$ Jesús Arias (je...@simu1.ele.cie.uva.es) $
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Harold Roussel
> Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
> : Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
> : that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>
> : I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
> : an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
> : It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
> : Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
> : I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
> : but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
> : that will allow me to use this drive.
> : misha
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
Just to add my 0.02$. It probably depends more on the bios than the IDE
controller. My old 486DX33 (bought in January 91) with AMI bios (10/15/90)
can support more than 1024 cylinders (with user-defined type 47). In fact
I can use the full 1063 cylinders of my 540 MB maxtor drive without any
problems (of course, the partition extending beyond the infamous 1024
"cylinder limit" is formatted as HPFS; may MS-DOS rest in peace...and win95
as well since its VFAT filesystem suffers from the same brain-dead limitations
of good'ol FAT).
>
> stuff deleted
>
//
// H. Roussel email: rou...@physics.mcgill.ca
// Ph.D. student phone: (514) 398-6506
// High Energy Physics
// McGill University, Montréal, Québec
//
// Using OS/2 Warp...and soon NT 3.51.
//
// "...puisses t-il me donner la force de te désarçonner et
// d'un seul coup d'épée te faire ů nouveau traverser la mer."
// Le Roi Arthur, dans Excalibur.
Joel Ostapowich
>Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
>: Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>: that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>: I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>: an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>: It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>: Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>: I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>: but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>: that will allow me to use this drive.
>: thanks
>: misha
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
>trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however. I
>have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called EZ-Drive
>which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to get
>one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as they
>support larger drives.
Careful when using EZ-Drive Or Ontrack's BIOS extension (to overcom
the 540 barrier). When it asks, Do you WANT to make a RESCUE disk, do
so. If Anything even mildly goes wrong with the sectors where said
utilities store your drive information, your drive is revocably
foobarred (aka, FDISK->FORMAT->RESTORE). I was farting around with
ON-TRACK's Hard Drive Manager and blew my drive up reallll good.
Luckily I had a backup, but it's still a pain in the arse. (with a
rescue disk I could have been back up and running within one boot from
floppy).
Now you know. P.S. Why the hell would youbother putting a huge drive
in a kludge machine like that? Buy yourself a cheap mother board
with a new bios (and IDE controller built in). Less than 400 bucks
total.
Joel Ostapowich
Patrick J. McGuinness
>sta...@clark.net wrote:
>: Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>: trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however. I
>: have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called EZ-Drive
>: which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to get
>: one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as they
>: support larger drives.
I have been having problems in setting up a similar Conner hard-drive.
It's a CFA1275, which is 1250 MB. I am putting it on a 3-year-old
Gateway 486-33 PC with an IDE (not EIDE) controller.
My ultimate goal was to have this drive be a DOS/Win95 disk, with another
disk for Linux; the Linux drive would "see" the big drive to read and write
to it. I used the "EZ-drive" program to set up the disk, and it seemed to look
okay at first, under DOS. Got all the space recognized, and I was able to
boot up. Yippee.
But then when I tried to get Linux - which is loaded on another drive
(420MB Conner, btw) - to recognize the 1250MB drive, it couldn't.
Linux didn't recognize the big drive as a DOS partition and made whines about
the partition parameters. (The "EZ-drive" is fooling something, and linux
acted confused). Attempts to use Linux's fdisk to change the system
type didn't help, and attempts to try to create Linux partitions
on the bid drive also failed.
Also, when I made the big drive the slave drive to my other DOS drive,
it *also* couldn't recognize it. As in, not able to read it at all,
so that my "D:" drive is my CD-ROM. It acted as if the drive was not
there. I tried different jumper settings to make sure it was correctly set
as a slave drive.
Finally, after I had these problems, I put the big drive back as
the master drive, and when I try to boot Windows 95 beta, it gives me a
"VFAT device error" and stops booting. I have to restart in "safe" mode.
I am able to boot to DOS with "minimal device drivers" and use the big disk
under restricted conditions.
Go figure.
My questions: Has anyone out there who has used "EZ-drive" gotten Linux
to recognize and been able to use those drives with Linux? (In my previous
set-up, for example, I could read and write to the DOS drive partitions
from Linux; that is what I want to do here).
Is there something I screwed up or did wrong?
Has anyone been able to use these drives as Linux native drives,
using the normal IDE controller (not EIDE)?
Finally, do I need to get hardware such as the following to fix my problems?
(e.g. I am wondering if the "EZ-drive" software screws up Linux's
view of the drive and vice-versa).
>GSI also makes an autodetecting ISA EIDE controller. I don't have a phone
Thanks for any advice.
Patrick
RBond
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
>trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however. I
>have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called EZ-Drive
>which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to get
>one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as they
>support larger drives.
It's not, in fact, a limitiation of the EIDE or IDE controller.
"Controllers" for EIDE or IDE drives are little more than a buffers
which connect to the motherboard via a slot... the real controller is
on the drive. The problem with large (>528M) hard drives lies within
the motherboard BIOS. For IDE and EIDE drives, the motherboard's CMOS
memory stores the drive geometry in CHS (cylinder, head, sectors per
track) format.
The problem is that the original specifications for the bytes
reserved for storing each of these parameters placed limitations on
how big each of these values of CHS could be. The cylinder parameter,
for example, is limited to 1024 cylinders max. This is the reason the
drive size is limited. Buying just any EIDE controller without
overcoming the motherboard BIOS problem will get you nothing.
New motherboard BIOS revisions may be available that support LBA,
or Logical Block Addressing, allowing use of large EIDE drives. If
you could find one, you wouldn't even need to replace your controller
(standard 16 bit ISA controllers work fine in new motherboards whose
BIOSes support LBA) although you would be missing another advantage of
the EIDE architecture - PIO and DMA methods of very high speed data
transfer. You may also find an IDE board with its own BIOS that
supercedes the motherboard BIOS. I think you best bet for now is to
use the "cheater" software, which writes itself to the boot sector of
the drive and loads a driver to perform the CHS translation by hooking
the software interrupt routine for the drive (such as OnTrack
software). Hope this helps
Wayne Scharf
Michael Umansky <mi...@convex.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>
>I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>that will allow me to use this drive.
>thanks
>misha
>--
>NAME: Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com)
>WORK: Convex Computer Corp; 3000 Waterview Parkway; Richardson, TX 75080
>HOME: 10541 Sandpiper Lane; Dallas, TX 75230
>PHONE: 214-497-4717 (work) 214-739-2461 (home) 214-739-2420 (fax/msg)
Getting your ROM updated is a semi-trivial exercise, with alleged
advantages like 2.88 floppy support...failing that, a controller board
called a "SideOut +" [if memory serves..] will do the trick..you
configure all the hard drives to "type 1", and the controller does the rest.
It works pretty good, and is reliable; but occasionally it goes off on
"long searches" of 2-3 seconds for reasons unknown to me.
I got mine from Micro Center [the MEI people]...go talk to them, see if
you can find anyone smart. Caution; there is also a straight "Sideout"
controller...cheaper, and not smart. I paid ~$75 or so...
--
NAT...@KAIWAN.COM
Silverado
sta...@clark.net
<SNIP>
: Careful when using EZ-Drive Or Ontrack's BIOS extension (to overcom
: the 540 barrier). When it asks, Do you WANT to make a RESCUE disk, do
: so. If Anything even mildly goes wrong with the sectors where said
: utilities store your drive information, your drive is revocably
: foobarred (aka, FDISK->FORMAT->RESTORE). I was farting around with
: ON-TRACK's Hard Drive Manager and blew my drive up reallll good.
: Luckily I had a backup, but it's still a pain in the arse. (with a
: rescue disk I could have been back up and running within one boot from
: floppy).
the BIOS has with IDE drives, that the the IDE controllers themselves
have. As several people have probably brought to your attention by this
point. I have seen these software problems too (I got a buggy version of
EZ-Drive). If something goes wrong you will have to format your hard drive
and then run norton unformat or something to get the stuff back if you
don't have a rescue disk. It's not a pretty sight.
sta...@clark.net
<SNIP>
: But then when I tried to get Linux - which is loaded on another drive
: (420MB Conner, btw) - to recognize the 1250MB drive, it couldn't.
: Linux didn't recognize the big drive as a DOS partition and made whines about
: the partition parameters. (The "EZ-drive" is fooling something, and linux
: acted confused). Attempts to use Linux's fdisk to change the system
: type didn't help, and attempts to try to create Linux partitions
: on the bid drive also failed.
ctrl key to bypass EZ-Drive and then boot off a floppy?
My Question #2: When you said that when you slave the Conner 1250 it
*also* doesn't recognize it were you saying that EZ-Drive doesn't
recognize it or Linux doesn't recognize it. If EZ-Drive or DOS don't you
just need to change the jumper settings on the Conner 420 so it is set to
Master/Slave rather than single drive to slave the Conner 1250,
unfortunately that won't help you with the Linux problem I don't think.
Kimberly J. Keith
I currently have a VLB IDE controller, and a Maxtor 540MB IDE hard drive.
I am ready to purchase a new 1.2 gig drive, and I have a few technical
questions:
1) Do I need to purchase an EIDE controller?
1b) If so, what low-cost VLB model do you recommend?
2) If I buy a PIO-mode 4 DMA-mode 2 drive, will it work with a PIO-mode 3
controller? (if a new controller is necessary)
2b) Does the Promis 2300 support PIO mode 4 DMA mode 2?
3) Can I expect to have my new drive perform at it's potential while my
older IDE drive is still installed?
4) Give your opinions on the following models, I can get them all for
virtually the same price, so performance/relyability is my main concerns:
Maxtor Excalibur 71260A, 1260MB, 256k, PIO mode 3
Conner Filepro CFA1275, 1275MB, 256k, PIO mode 4 DMA mode 2
Western Digital Caviar AC31200N, 1280MB, 128k, PIO mode 3 (I think)
5) Any other suggestions/advice?
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Dean Keith.
Mark Lord
...
>My questions: Has anyone out there who has used "EZ-drive" gotten Linux
>to recognize and been able to use those drives with Linux? (In my previous
>set-up, for example, I could read and write to the DOS drive partitions
>from Linux; that is what I want to do here).
It probably messes with the logical disk geometry, similar to what
the OnTrack DiskManager 6.0x software does. Support for the latter
is now in linux kernel 1.3.9, but not for EZ-drive.
If you mail me your EZ-drive diskette, I may be able to add explicit
support for it to linux.
--
ml...@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
For latest Linux kernels: ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:/pub/Software/Linux/Kernel/v1.[23]
For Linux IDE (big/many) help, see: /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.ide
John Gossett
> I currently have a VLB IDE controller, and a Maxtor 540MB IDE hard drive.
> I am ready to purchase a new 1.2 gig drive, and I have a few technical
> questions:
>
> 1) Do I need to purchase an EIDE controller?
>
> 1b) If so, what low-cost VLB model do you recommend?
>
> 4) Give your opinions on the following models, I can get them all for
> virtually the same price, so performance/relyability is my main concerns:
>
> Maxtor Excalibur 71260A, 1260MB, 256k, PIO mode 3
>
> Conner Filepro CFA1275, 1275MB, 256k, PIO mode 4 DMA mode 2
>
> Western Digital Caviar AC31200N, 1280MB, 128k, PIO mode 3 (I think)
I am replying to this to get a reply myself as I want answers to the same
questions with the addition that I want to install Linux on the new 1.2
GB drive in about 800MB of the drive. Linux compatibility is therefore
an additional consideration to the answers to the above questions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Gossett Research Engineering Assistant
University of Texas: Applied Research Labs
Standard Disclaimer: These views may not reflect my employer's views.
My Disclaimer: I fully claim responsibility for the above views.
Quote: "Get over it!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Lord
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
Sheer utter nonsense. IDE interfaces support drives of up to 128 GB (gig!).
Steve Bonds
Patrick J. McGuinness <p...@anegada.sps.mot.com> wrote:
>I have been having problems in setting up a similar Conner hard-drive.
>It's a CFA1275, which is 1250 MB.
<Sniff> Wish I could have found one of these... They discontinued them on me.
>I am putting it on a 3-year-old
>Gateway 486-33 PC with an IDE (not EIDE) controller.
Shouldn't be TOO much of a problem. (But keep reading!)
>My ultimate goal was to have this drive be a DOS/Win95 disk, with another
>disk for Linux; the Linux drive would "see" the big drive to read and write
>to it. I used the "EZ-drive" program to set up the disk, and it seemed to
>look
>okay at first, under DOS. Got all the space recognized, and I was able to
>boot up. Yippee.
>
>But then when I tried to get Linux - which is loaded on another drive
>(420MB Conner, btw) - to recognize the 1250MB drive, it couldn't.
>Linux didn't recognize the big drive as a DOS partition and made whines about
>the partition parameters. (The "EZ-drive" is fooling something, and linux
>acted confused). Attempts to use Linux's fdisk to change the system
>type didn't help, and attempts to try to create Linux partitions
>on the bid drive also failed.
EZ-Drive loads in the MBR of your first hard disk. If you haven't booted
from the first hard disk and seen the blue EZ-Drive startup screen, your large
disk will NOT be accessible.
A word of caution, too: if you overwrite the MBR on the first hard disk
with LILO, etc. EZ-Drive is going to be nuked, and you will be unable
to access your hard drive. Unless you have a backup MBR somewhere, you will
be S.O.L.
Since all the data on your hard disk is "encoded" to the larger size, if
EZ-Drive is not loaded, then the BIOS will be trying to read the drive as
if it is a 128MB drive (or whatever type it's set for) and will fail utterly.
The partition table tells DOS that cylinder 2019 exists, but the BIOS only
thinks there are 16 cyinders. It's this confusion that keeps the drive from
working.
This is why to boot from a floppy disk, you must really boot from the
hard disk, and hold down the <ctrl> key to "boot" from a floppy.
>Also, when I made the big drive the slave drive to my other DOS drive,
>it *also* couldn't recognize it. As in, not able to read it at all,
>so that my "D:" drive is my CD-ROM. It acted as if the drive was not
>there. I tried different jumper settings to make sure it was correctly set
>as a slave drive.
You should understand why in light of the above. Without EZ-Drive loaded,
your computer won't recognize the conner as a valid drive.
>My questions: Has anyone out there who has used "EZ-drive" gotten Linux
>to recognize and been able to use those drives with Linux? (In my previous
>set-up, for example, I could read and write to the DOS drive partitions
>from Linux; that is what I want to do here).
Not unless Linux includes EZ-Drive software in the kernel. I don't think it
does (yet).
>Is there something I screwed up or did wrong?
Not really. You just expected the EZ-Drive software to do more than it is
capable of. (And I can't fault you for that with the drive manufacturers
pretending these patch-together fixes are real solutions...)
>Has anyone been able to use these drives as Linux native drives,
>using the normal IDE controller (not EIDE)?
IDE vs EIDE shouldn't make any difference. If LILO were in the DOS boot record
instead of the MBR, and you booted from the Conner, it should work. BUT,
I have not tried this personally.
>Finally, do I need to get hardware such as the following to fix my problems?
>(e.g. I am wondering if the "EZ-drive" software screws up Linux's
>view of the drive and vice-versa).
OK, now we get to the part you really wanted to read! ;-> DTC (Data
Technology Corporation) makes a small add-in card that includes EZ-Drive
software on a ROM chip. This loads BEFORE the MBR so Linux, Win95, etc. can
cope with the larger drive. It is also on a ROM so there is no danger of
overwriting the EZ-Drive code and hosing yourself. It still suffers from the
same problems of slowness and ocassional incompatibility, but it is MUCH less
fragile. It's a simple 8-bit card with an EPROM on it along with a small
amount of memory.
The other option is to get a BIOS that supports LBA so you aren't limited to
1024 cylinders any more. But this is expensive, and would probably involve
swapping out your motherboard.
A third option is to get one of the Promise EIDE controllers that include
LBA built-in. I've had real poor luck with these and Win95, though. (Note:
the boards may be fine-- this is just my experience.)
Good luck! These large-drive adventures can be a real challenge sometimes.
-- Steve Bonds
--
000 000 7777 | sbo...@u.washington.edu and Steve...@hmc.edu
0 0 0 0 7 |-----------------------------------------------------------
0 0 0 0 7 | Childhood is short... [Calvin & Hobbes]
000 000 7 | ...but immaturity is forever.
Patrick J. McGuinness
>Patrick J. McGuinness (p...@anegada.sps.mot.com) wrote:
><SNIP>
>: (420MB Conner, btw) - to recognize the 1250MB drive, it couldn't.
>: Linux didn't recognize the big drive as a DOS partition and made whines about
>: the partition parameters. (The "EZ-drive" is fooling something, and linux
>: acted confused). Attempts to use Linux's fdisk to change the system
>: type didn't help, and attempts to try to create Linux partitions
>: on the bid drive also failed.
>ctrl key to bypass EZ-Drive and then boot off a floppy?
When I boot Linux, it does in fact bypass the EZ-drive, and it does boot
off a floppy.
> My Question #2: When you said that when you slave the Conner 1250 it
>*also* doesn't recognize it were you saying that EZ-Drive doesn't
>recognize it or Linux doesn't recognize it. If EZ-Drive or DOS don't you
Linux doesn't recognize it.
I think what I have gleaned from the FAQs and from similar comments
about OnTrack software is this: Linux and EZ-Drive are not compatible.
I can get DOS/Win to be happy about a giga-drive using EZ-Drive.
I can get Linux to be happy about a giga-drive, too (although I haven't
tried making it a Linux-only partition).
But I cannot get BOTH DOS and Linux happy looking at the SAME big drive
and both treating it as a sane MSDOS partition, with EZ-Drive installed.
Can anyone out there disprove the above conclusion?
>just need to change the jumper settings on the Conner 420 so it is set to
>Master/Slave rather than single drive to slave the Conner 1250,
>unfortunately that won't help you with the Linux problem I don't think.
Nope. Not a jumper problem that I can tell.
Mark Lord
>
>The biggest drive that can be handled by the original AT controller
>can be: 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 (data) sectors/track, 512
>byte/sector = 528,482,304 bytes.
...
>John <JNa...@NavasGrp.com> http://web.aimnet.com/~jnavas/
Sigh. I *do* wish people would consult the literature before
making public asses of themselves.
I have in front of me the ATA (IDE) and ATA-2 (EIDE) interface
specification documents. See the manpage for hdparm(8) for references.
There is *no* capacity difference between "EIDE" and "IDE".
- both of these provide LBA, though this is not needed for capacity.
- both of these provide 28 bits at the hardware interface
for addressing sectors on the disk.
- max capacity = 2^28 * 512bytes = 128GB (yeah, GIGA-bytes).
Also available is "disproof by counter-example", in this case my 1Gig IDE
(not "EIDE") hard drive with a 1001MB formatted capacity, 3 years old.
Mark Lord
>In article <3tsl2n$l...@news2.aimnet.com> JNa...@NavasGrp.com writes:
>>
>>The biggest drive that can be handled by the original AT controller
>>can be: 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 (data) sectors/track, 512
>>byte/sector = 528,482,304 bytes.
Actually, the above statement is somewhat "true", in that it does indeed
describe the "original AT controller", despite the subject header that
suggests everyone else is discussing IDE drive capacity. Oh well.
John Navas
je...@simu1.ele.cie.uva.es () wrote:
> [private email]
The biggest drive that can be handled by the original AT controller
can be: 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 (data) sectors/track, 512
byte/sector = 528,482,304 bytes.
John Alsobrook
>In article <DBD2B...@oakhill.sps.mot.com>,
>Patrick J. McGuinness <p...@anegada.sps.mot.com> wrote:
=> snip <=
>>But then when I tried to get Linux - which is loaded on another drive
>>(420MB Conner, btw) - to recognize the 1250MB drive, it couldn't.
=> snip <=
>>My questions: Has anyone out there who has used "EZ-drive" gotten Linux
>>to recognize and been able to use those drives with Linux? (In my previous
>>set-up, for example, I could read and write to the DOS drive partitions
>>from Linux; that is what I want to do here).
=> snip <=
>Not unless Linux includes EZ-Drive software in the kernel. I don't think it
>does (yet).
A recent poster to c.s.i.p.h.storage described in glorious detail that the
latest version of DiskManager (version 7 I believe) works well with Linux.
DiskManager does the same type of MBR modification as EZ-Drive.
I've never used Linux, just DiskManager. But someone around here has used
both! Maybe you can prevail upon him to repost (or perhaps you can dredge up
a site that archives all of this sage wisdom)!
******************************************************************************
* John Alsobrook Child Study Center Yale University School of Medicine *
* internet: also...@biomed.med.yale.edu / bitnet: also...@yalemed.bitnet *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* "Giving money and power to the government is like giving whiskey and car *
* keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* If I was a spokesperson for Yale my secretaries would have typed this... *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Roger Wilkerson
support it w/o the drivers. that's the point... you are either using 32bit
drivers or 3rd party drivers. BUT DRIVERS MUST BE INSTALLED TO SUPPORT ABOVE
1024 CYLs in DOS; 1024 & less does not require special drivers.
In article <3tu1ad$8...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>, ml...@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) wrote:
>
>Subject: Re: use of large (>540Mb) IDE on older computers
>Date: 11 Jul 1995 14:19:57 GMT
>Organization: BNR Ottawa, Canada
>Lines: 28
>Message-ID: <3tu1ad$8...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>
>References: <3tefkm$d...@zeppelin.convex.com> <3tejnp$6...@clarknet.clark.net>
<3tg4j1$p...@maggie.cpd.uva.es> <3tsl2n$l...@news2.aimnet.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: bmerha23.bnr.ca
>In article <3tsl2n$l...@news2.aimnet.com> JNa...@NavasGrp.com writes:
>>
>>The biggest drive that can be handled by the original AT controller
>>can be: 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 (data) sectors/track, 512
>>byte/sector = 528,482,304 bytes.
>....
>>John <JNa...@NavasGrp.com> http://web.aimnet.com/~jnavas/
>
>Sigh. I *do* wish people would consult the literature before
>making public asses of themselves.
>
>
>I have in front of me the ATA (IDE) and ATA-2 (EIDE) interface
>specification documents. See the manpage for hdparm(8) for references.
>
>There is *no* capacity difference between "EIDE" and "IDE".
>
> - both of these provide LBA, though this is not needed for capacity.
> - both of these provide 28 bits at the hardware interface
> for addressing sectors on the disk.
> - max capacity = 2^28 * 512bytes = 128GB (yeah, GIGA-bytes).
>
>Also available is "disproof by counter-example", in this case my 1Gig IDE
>(not "EIDE") hard drive with a 1001MB formatted capacity, 3 years old.
-----------------------------------------------
Roger Wilkerson............. Search Specialists
Voice:(408)224-8886...........Fax:(408)224-5085
......email: rog...@hhunt.com
Jason Weisberger
: In article <3tuguj$e...@nntp5.u.washington.edu> sbo...@u.washington.edu (Steve Bonds) writes:
: >In article <DBD2B...@oakhill.sps.mot.com>,
: >Patrick J. McGuinness <p...@anegada.sps.mot.com> wrote:
: => snip <=
: >>But then when I tried to get Linux - which is loaded on another drive
: >>(420MB Conner, btw) - to recognize the 1250MB drive, it couldn't.
: => snip <=
: >>My questions: Has anyone out there who has used "EZ-drive" gotten Linux
: >>to recognize and been able to use those drives with Linux? (In my previous
: >>set-up, for example, I could read and write to the DOS drive partitions
: >>from Linux; that is what I want to do here).
I never got EZ Drive to do a single damned thing (outside of annoying me).
I have to use the dos batch file method of booting linux until I finally
got so sick of that EZSTOR stuff that I formatted the hell out of my drive.
Come See:
--The Temple of Failure--
Home of the Wheel of DorkDom!
http://198.147.97.19/~jweis
Mark Lord
>
>I never got EZ Drive to do a single damned thing (outside of annoying me).
>
>I have to use the dos batch file method of booting linux until I finally
>got so sick of that EZSTOR stuff that I formatted the hell out of my drive.
Since you're not using it any more,
would you care to mail me the diskette for EZ Drive,
so that I can implement Linux support for it in
the ide driver?
Your Name
>
>Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>
>I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>that will allow me to use this drive.
>thanks
>misha
>--
>NAME: Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com)
>WORK: Convex Computer Corp; 3000 Waterview Parkway; Richardson, TX
75080
>HOME: 10541 Sandpiper Lane; Dallas, TX 75230
>PHONE: 214-497-4717 (work) 214-739-2461 (home) 214-739-2420 (fax/msg)
Mike,
I know of a card made by DTC that is an 8-bit BIOS card meant especially
for your problem...you would have to look up their number because I don't
have it here but I know they sell it for 14.95 and it will allow you to
use drives over 528mb on older boards...I know because one of my techs at
work has the same setup as you with an older AMI mother board and he can
only use a 120 mb because the BIOS doesnt have a user setup option so he
is stuck with the presets (similar to a 286)...see ya...
Joe Maravillas
>Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
>: Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>: that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>: I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>: an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>: It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>: Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>: I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>: but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>: that will allow me to use this drive.
>: thanks
>: misha
> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
>trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however. I
>have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called EZ-Drive
>which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to get
>one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as they
>support larger drives.
Not necessarily true. There are IDE controllers that have BIOSes that will support >528 mb. You don't have to use Disk Manager or other such software drivers. If you go to your neighborhood CompUSA you can buy an IDE controller w/BIOS that will allow you to use >528 mb drives on ISA bus for about $60 or so. If you go to your local Fry's you have a choice of controllers that will support the larger drives. I bought a GSI Model 18 that supports up to 4 gig drives. It workks great as a secondary control
ler too.
Good luck,
Joe
Roger Wilkerson
mara...@chiremv.chiron.com (Joe Maravillas) wrote:
>Subject: Re: use of large (>540Mb) IDE on older computers
>Date: 14 Jul 95 17:00:56 GMT
>Organization: Chiron Corp.
>Lines: 28
>Distribution: na
>Message-ID: <maravilj.805741256@chiremv>
>References: <3tefkm$d...@zeppelin.convex.com> <3tejnp$6...@clarknet.clark.net>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: chiremv.chiron.com
>Status: N
>
>sta...@clark.net () writes:
>
>>Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
>>: Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>>: that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>
>>: I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>>: an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>>: It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>>: Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>>: I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>>: but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>>: that will allow me to use this drive.
>>: thanks
>>: misha
I think you are mistaken what you just bought was and EIDE drive and not an
IDE drive.
>> Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>>IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
>>trick your IDE controller into taking the larger hard drive however. I
>>have a Conner 850MB IDE drive and it comes with a program called EZ-Drive
>>which bypasses the 528 million byte limitation. Your best bet is to get
>>one of these programs, but you could also buy an EIDE controller as they
>>support larger drives.
>
>Not necessarily true. There are IDE controllers that have BIOSes that will
support >528 mb. You don't have to use Disk Manager or other such software
drivers. If you go to your neighborhood CompUSA you can buy an IDE controller
w/BIOS that will allow you to use >528 mb drives on ISA bus for about $60 or
so. If you go to your local Fry's you have a choice of controllers that will
support the larger drives. I bought a GSI Model 18 that supports up to 4 gig
drives. It workks great as a secondary control
>ler too.
>
>Good luck,
>Joe
Again, I believe you are mistaken. the controller referenced above is an EIDE
controller and not an IDE controller.
Duane M. Saylor
that supports drives > 540 meg. It also has a driver to
support 32 bit disk and File access with WFWG.
flash gordon md
>: Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>: that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>: I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>: an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>: It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
windows 95 includes LBA support in software, and a number of folks on
the win-95 mailing list report using it successfully on 386 machines.
of course, with less than 8 megs of ram the performance is going to be
slow, but it might be worth considering.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
in theory, there's no difference between
theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
flash gordon, m.d., f.a.c.e.p. http://www.well.com/user/flash
fl...@well.com / fl...@toad.com / fl...@sirius.com / fl...@river.org
Fabo
Disk Managar, ffom the makers of DRIVE ROCKET, this proggy is desined to
install your 500 to 3 gig drive onto older systems.....
This is what u need to do
Fabo
Frank Pikelner
|> In article <3tsl2n$l...@news2.aimnet.com> JNa...@NavasGrp.com writes:
|> >
|> >The biggest drive that can be handled by the original AT controller
|> >can be: 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 (data) sectors/track, 512
|> >byte/sector = 528,482,304 bytes.
|> ...
|>
|> Sigh. I *do* wish people would consult the literature before
|> making public asses of themselves.
|>
|>
|> I have in front of me the ATA (IDE) and ATA-2 (EIDE) interface
|> specification documents. See the manpage for hdparm(8) for references.
|>
|> There is *no* capacity difference between "EIDE" and "IDE".
|>
|> - both of these provide LBA, though this is not needed for capacity.
|> - both of these provide 28 bits at the hardware interface
|> for addressing sectors on the disk.
|> - max capacity = 2^28 * 512bytes = 128GB (yeah, GIGA-bytes).
|>
|> Also available is "disproof by counter-example", in this case my 1Gig IDE
|> (not "EIDE") hard drive with a 1001MB formatted capacity, 3 years old.
|> --
Think of how YOUR OS accesses the HD.... I bet the OS is not DOS, if the
OS uses the BIOS then the original poster is correct. The combination of
BIOS and HD spec limits determine the maximum HD usage specs.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
____/ / Frank Pikelner /~\
/ _/ / Technical Assistant, Department of Computer Science <v.v>
___/ ____/ York University (Toronto, Canada) ,\^/;
/ / email: fr...@cs.yorku.ca _{!}_
/ / http://www.cs.yorku.ca/People/frank/Welcome.html
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
root
: Forget about spending your money on hardware, there is a program called
: install your 500 to 3 gig drive onto older systems.....
: This is what u need to do
comp.os.linux.hardware?) DO NOT USE Disk Manager! It does nasty crap like
shift the whole drive over one sector.. so Linux tries to access any part of
the drive, it's all off by a sector, so it can't get anything off.. (This is
remembered from a while back.. it's something SIMILAR to this, I can't
guarantee this is the exact problem..)
Also, if you have Linux.. feed it the geometry in lilo.conf.. it'll use
the drive without BIOS support. The worst that could happen is if the
kernel etc. are all above 540 megs, so you need to boot off floppy.. but
it's most likely <540 megs. Ditto for OS/2, etc... they all support >540,
and also won't work at all with Disk Manager.
: Fabo
Hambone
>In article <maravilj.805741256@chiremv>,
> mara...@chiremv.chiron.com (Joe Maravillas) wrote:
>>>Michael Umansky (mi...@convex.com) wrote:
>>>: Does anyone know of an ISA (16bit) IDE controller with on-board BIOS
>>>: that will allow access to any size (especially > 540mb) IDE drive?
>>
>>>: I just bought an 850Mb IDE drive. I would like to use it with
>>>: an old Compaq Deskpro 386/33 with built in IDE controller.
>>>: It has an ISA only motherboard, no VLB/PCI.
>>>: Its bios drive type table has nothing even close to what I need.
>>>: I can probably find the drive table in its PROM and burn a new one,
>>>: but I would like, instead, to just get an intelligent IDE controller
>>>: that will allow me to use this drive.
>>>: thanks
>>>: misha
>Again, I believe you are mistaken. the controller referenced above is an EIDE
>controller and not an IDE controller.
There are three ways that a large hard drive (>528megs) can be
supported.
1) LBA (logical block addressing) built into the bios
2) Software, disk manager and all its veriations, by on-track software
3) A controller card that supports large hard drives (see computer
shopper, midwest micro ad i think).
while the first two I know works very well. The third I am not sure
of. I had a customer that bought a computer about a year ago and when
he upgraded his hard drive bought the special card as well. He paid
about $100.00 for it and now he is receiving the weirdest error
messages that I've herd in a while, such as kilobyte errors while
booting. I'm not saying that the card is no good, its just that the
software works fine. Even with os/2 and windows 95 (which I'm running
now with an 850 and 540 both using disk manager). OS/2 will require
disk manager ver. 7.0 $25 from on-track.
Hasta
DONALD LINK
You are forgetting one thing. This is a software solution and it does
change the drive formatting to fool dos into bypassing the limitations.
Everyone knows it is not nice to fool DOS. There are ISA cards that are
not Enhanced but will allow larger drive through a hardware solution.
Any one with VL bus can buy a EIDE controller with on board BIOS that
will solve any problems with larger drives.
Another problem with the software solution is it does use more
conventional memory. With Win95 i am not sure what the problems are.
If you really do not need the larger drives right away and are planning
on upgrading to Win95 wait until it ships. I'm sure by then a better
hardwar solution will be advailable. A lot of new computers already are
shipping with EIDE already built in the motherboard BIOS. A mother
board upgrade will probably be a solution to some, especially with price
becoming more and more reasonable.
David Greeson
it with a WD 540MB. Check out Computer Shopper for BIOS dealers.
--
David Greeson Newbridge Networks Inc.
dgre...@newbridge.com 593 Herndon Pkwy
(703) 708-5955 Herndon, VA 22070
Craig G Bates
|> In article <3tejnp$6...@clarknet.clark.net> sta...@clark.net writes:
|> > Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
|> >IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
|>
|> ml...@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
|> For latest Linux kernels: ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:/pub/Software/Linux/Kernel/v1.[23]
|> For Linux IDE (big/many) help, see: /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.ide
No, if you have a non-EIDE controller and/or older BIOS (pre-1994)
you cannot see more than 1024 cylinders without special software
(at least under DOS). This limits you to about 528 MB
as the earlier poster noted. If you have an EIDE controller and/or
newer BIOS the sky's the limit.
Craig
Mark Lord
>In article <3ts7i1$p...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>, ml...@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>|> In article <3tejnp$6...@clarknet.clark.net> sta...@clark.net writes:
>|> > Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>|> >IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs to
>|>
>|> Sheer utter nonsense. IDE interfaces support drives of up to 128 GB (gig!).
>
>you cannot see more than 1024 cylinders without special software
>(at least under DOS). This limits you to about 528 MB
The original comment was concerning "IDE controllers", not DOS.
All IDE controllers support drives of up to 128GB capacity.
It is well known that certain MicroSoft software packages may have trouble
with this..
Paul Stranc
can't get an upgraded BIOS for the Compaq and it doesn't support user
defined drive types so an EIDE controller with its own BIOS won't do you any
good either unless the controller lets you set the BIOS hard drive type to
None and the EIDE contoller handles all of the hard drive functions like a
SCSI controller does. Most EIDE controllers don't do that.
Paul Stranc pst...@execpc.com
Stan Huntting
>windows 95 includes LBA support in software, and a number of folks on
>the win-95 mailing list report using it successfully on 386 machines.
>of course, with less than 8 megs of ram the performance is going to be
>slow, but it might be worth considering.
Wow! Is this true? Can anyone else confirm this?
Does this mean that I can add a larger-than-528MB drive to my PCI/IDE
controller with my 18-month-old BIOS, and get access to the whole drive
under Win95? If I were to reformat my Conner 544 drive under Win95, will I
pick up added capacity? Is there a hitch?
John Prewett
The above is not the only option.
If you are willing to keep your existing IDE controller in your Deskpro
386/33 (with existing drive(s)) and have a secondary GSI model 18
controller with EIDE drives, all will work just fine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John Prewett Not even speaking for myself, let alone ADP.
jpre...@bis.adp.com
Mark Notarus
>
>With a Compaq DeskPro 386/33 your only option is to use Disk Manager. You
>can't get an upgraded BIOS for the Compaq and it doesn't support user
>defined drive types so an EIDE controller with its own BIOS won't do you any
>good either unless the controller lets you set the BIOS hard drive type to
>None and the EIDE contoller handles all of the hard drive functions like a
>SCSI controller does. Most EIDE controllers don't do that.
Most bios-bearing IDE type cards work in one of the
following cases:
a) set drives to type 1
b) set drives to type "none" in bios
And then they'll intelligently handle things, the same
way scsi bios handle booting off of hard drives.
mark
Marty Fried
>The above is not the only option.
>If you are willing to keep your existing IDE controller in your Deskpro
>386/33 (with existing drive(s)) and have a secondary GSI model 18
>controller with EIDE drives, all will work just fine.
Promise also has a secondary EIDE controller (EIDE Max) with BIOS that
will probably work, if the drive is EIDE. This controller has no floppy
controller, and is made to be a secondary controller, although it can be
configured as a primary, I think.
___________________________________________________________
Marty Fried - mfr...@linex.com | Press Enter to Exit
San Anselmo, CA | -NT message
(MSVC + MFC) && Win95; |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mark Lord
>
>Holy cow, what the hell is this guy talking about??
>
>|> > Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>|> >IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with
>programs to
>|>
>|> Sheer utter nonsense. IDE interfaces support drives of up to 128 GB
>(gig!).
>
Me too. How many IDE drivers have *you* written?
I'm working on my third right now.
Note carefully: "IDE interfaces" support drives of up to 128GB.
The DOS/BIOS software code suffers from arbitrary restrictions
which limit the max usable to 8GB under DOS. Other operating systems
do not have to suffer that same limitation.
Reaper
Holy cow, what the hell is this guy talking about??
"""
|> > Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
|> >IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with
programs to
|>
|> Sheer utter nonsense. IDE interfaces support drives of up to 128 GB
(gig!).
|> --
|> ml...@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
|> For latest Linux kernels:
ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:/pub/Software/Linux/Kernel/v1.[
"""
I love misinformation from sheer utter inexperience.
--
[] The Reaper / One of The Chosen
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
Carlos Morgado
: In article <3ts7i1$p...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>, ml...@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
: |> In article <3tejnp$6...@clarknet.clark.net> sta...@clark.net writes:
: |>
: |> Sheer utter nonsense. IDE interfaces support drives of up to 128 GB (gig!).
: |> --
: |> ml...@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
: |> For Linux IDE (big/many) help, see: /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.ide
: No, if you have a non-EIDE controller and/or older BIOS (pre-1994)
: you cannot see more than 1024 cylinders without special software
: (at least under DOS). This limits you to about 528 MB
: as the earlier poster noted. If you have an EIDE controller and/or
: newer BIOS the sky's the limit.
Remember dos means DumbOS . Linux can use your full drive without fancy
eide or *special software* pains that allways tend to screw you up.
--
. /\ Carlos Hugo B Morgado - l39...@alfa.ist.utl.pt - http://alfa.../~l39801
/. \ Instituto Superior Tecnico - Technical Superior Institute of Lisbon
/ \ . /\ Electronics & Computers Engeneering Major
_/ . \ . / \_________________________________________________________
PGP on \ . / Message from root on localhost (console):
request \ / System is going down in 5 minutes - Please logout now
(or http) \/ <EOT>
Gary Mui,gov
be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
I suppose I need an ISA EIDE controller card, but will my older bios be able
to read more than 1024 cylinders (or something)?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
gary
gm...@jpmorgan.com
Mark Lord
>Sorry if I missed this, but I was wondering if my system (circa 1992) would
>be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
Linux: yes
Win95: no
Anthony Chalupa
Conner has some utilities that will work. I think on is called
EZ Drive or Drive Rocket. Check the Novell section out on compuserve.
There are some disk utilities out there for older fileservers that wanted
to run huge hard drives that weren't supported.
my two point five cents,
ac
Mike Young
>
>Craig G Bates (m23...@mwunix.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
>: In article <3ts7i1$p...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>, ml...@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>: |> In article <3tejnp$6...@clarknet.clark.net> sta...@clark.net writes:
>: |> > Greater than 528 million byte hard drives are not supported by
>: |> >IDE controllers. In most of the larger drives will come with programs
to
>: |>
>: |> Sheer utter nonsense. IDE interfaces support drives of up to 128 GB
(gig!).
>: |> For latest Linux kernels:
ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:/pub/Software/Linux/Kernel/v1.[23]
>: |> For Linux IDE (big/many) help, see:
/usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.ide
>
>: you cannot see more than 1024 cylinders without special software
>: (at least under DOS). This limits you to about 528 MB
>: as the earlier poster noted. If you have an EIDE controller and/or
>: newer BIOS the sky's the limit.
>
>Remember dos means DumbOS . Linux can use your full drive without fancy
>eide or *special software* pains that allways tend to screw you up.
It actually *does* depend on the BIOS (even Linux can't overcome that - I
used to run it...) You can buy IDE controller cards that override the MBD
BIOS, or you can buy expensive BIOS replacements that probably won't work w/
your MBD (in general). W/ the new flavors of BIOS', you can easily
accomodate 1024 cyl HD's.
Mark Lord
>>
>>Remember dos means DumbOS . Linux can use your full drive without fancy
>>eide or *special software* pains that allways tend to screw you up.
>
>It actually *does* depend on the BIOS (even Linux can't overcome that - I
Once linux is running, the BIOS is out of the picture.
The trick is that the BIOS is usually used to load the linux kernel,
so that portion (one file) must reside on a partition below the 1024 cyl mark.
After that, Linux is up and running, and kludgey dos/bios constraints are
no longer a concern. Up to 128GB on IDE.
BCOUTURE
>In article <3vlpqu$k...@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> gm...@jpmorgan.com writes:
>>Sorry if I missed this, but I was wondering if my system (circa 1992) would
>>be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
>Linux: yes
>Win95: no
>--
>ml...@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
>For latest Linux kernels: ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:/pub/Software/Linux/Kernel/v1.[23]
>For Linux IDE (big/many) help, see: /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.ide
What about large IDE harddrives running under DOS? My motherboard
is an antique, so what would I need? An EIDE board with its own BIOS?
Drivers? (and where would I find them)?
Thanks,
Bill <bcou...@cris.com>
C Rohrmeier
Mark Lord
>
>What about large IDE harddrives running under DOS? My motherboard
>is an antique, so what would I need? An EIDE board with its own BIOS?
>Drivers? (and where would I find them)?
Most new large drives include "drivers" as part of the purchase.
Seagate usually supplies "EZ Drive"
and Western Digital supplies "Ontrack Disk Manager"
These work fine for DOS, and DiskManager is now also compatible
with Linux kernels 3.1.14 and higher. EZ Drive will also be supported
some day..
C Rohrmeier
kri...@oslonett.no
>ac
As I can not access Compuserve; does anyone know of any ftp or www sites that
carry utilities like this?
thanks
Kristian Ruud
Daniel Kao
[snipped about 528MB DOS/BIOS limitation]
Damn this is cross posted to too many newsgroups. Oh well...
> Remember dos means DumbOS . Linux can use your full drive without fancy
> eide or *special software* pains that allways tend to screw you up.
Remember that Linux doesn't use your computer's BIOS. It completely
BYPASSES it. I'm guessing (probably wrong) that both MS-DOS and the BIOS
at are fault for not supporting harddrives bigger then 528MB. I remember
something about different bit/block addressing and that both MS-DOS and
the BIOS has to use the lowest common denominator which ends up being
528. IDE *AND* EIDE do however support harddrives up to 128 Gigabytes.
- Daniel Kao
J. Random Software
> Most new large drives include "drivers" as part of the purchase.
> These work fine for DOS, and DiskManager is now also compatible
Waitaminit - why does Linux care what software I use for LBA translation
under MS/PC-DOS? Or is there a Linux port of DiskManager (I wouldn't have
thought there'd be any point)?
Pat_B...@transarc.com
> >Linux: yes
> >Win95: no
>
> Actually, the operating system doesn't make a bit of difference. Your
> drive controller's bios either supports the whole drive, or it doesn't.
Actually, the operating system *does* make a difference.
Operating systems like FreeBSD and NetBSD (I can't speak for Linux,
but would be surprised it it didn't behave this way too) do *not* use
the BIOS for disk I/O. They have their own drivers, completely
bypassing the BIOS,
The practical upshot of this is that your BIOS really only *has* to
know about enough of the drive to get the system booted; once the O/S
is running and protected mode is enabled, the BIOS is no longer an
issue.
--Pat.
Mark Notarus
>
>In article <3vlpqu$k...@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> gm...@jpmorgan.com writes:
>>Sorry if I missed this, but I was wondering if my system (circa 1992) would
>>be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
>
>Win95: no
Actually, the operating system doesn't make a bit of difference. Your
drive controller's bios either supports the whole drive, or it doesn't.
In either case, you can buy a fairly cheap replacement EIDE multi
controller (~$35 for a DTC, or ~$50 for a promise 2300+) that has it's
own bios, and will support any ide drive at any size.
Mark Lord
>In article <3vm3pj$2...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>, ml...@bnr.ca says...
>>
>>In article <3vlpqu$k...@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> gm...@jpmorgan.com writes:
>>>Sorry if I missed this, but I was wondering if my system (circa 1992) would
>>>be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
>>
>>Linux: yes
>>Win95: no
>
>Actually, the operating system doesn't make a bit of difference. Your
Maybe not in the case of MicroSoft products, but Linux can directly
address IDE drives up to 128GB in capacity (if they existed),
because Linux does not use the BIOS for I/O. It talks directly to
the bare metal, so to speak.
Mark Lord
>> Most new large drives include "drivers" as part of the purchase.
>[...]
>> These work fine for DOS, and DiskManager is now also compatible
>> with Linux kernels 3.1.14 and higher[....]
>
>Waitaminit - why does Linux care what software I use for LBA translation
>under MS/PC-DOS? Or is there a Linux port of DiskManager (I wouldn't have
>thought there'd be any point)?
Linux "cares" because it uses the same partition-table data as MS-DOS.
These "drivers" (DiskManager and EZ-Drive) play games with the parition-table,
relocating it to a non-standard location and altering the "apparent" geometry
and size of the drive. In order for Linux to be able to share such a drive
with MS-DOS, it has to know how to find the real partition table and how
to pretend to use the same "apparent" geometry. This takes special support
in Linux, OS/2, Win/NT, and any other software that does not run with the
special DOS drivers installed.
l.cheung
|> On 31 Jul 1995, Carlos Morgado wrote:
|>
|> [snipped about 528MB DOS/BIOS limitation]
|>
|> Damn this is cross posted to too many newsgroups. Oh well...
|>
|> > Remember dos means DumbOS . Linux can use your full drive without fancy
|> > eide or *special software* pains that allways tend to screw you up.
|>
|> Remember that Linux doesn't use your computer's BIOS. It completely
|> BYPASSES it. I'm guessing (probably wrong) that both MS-DOS and the BIOS
|> at are fault for not supporting harddrives bigger then 528MB. I remember
|> something about different bit/block addressing and that both MS-DOS and
|> the BIOS has to use the lowest common denominator which ends up being
|> 528. IDE *AND* EIDE do however support harddrives up to 128 Gigabytes.
OK, I'm aware of the fact that DOS doesn't support drives greater than 528Mb...
Is that why the Quantum Maverick 540A has been given settings to set it to
528 megs? If so, then why bother saying that it's a 540 meg hard disk
when everyone (including Quantum officials) gives it's BIOS settings to
result in a 528 hard disk? Maybe this is covered in some FAQ? I'm lost...
Li
T. B. Harmon
your drive is a 540, using 1,024 it's a 528. DOS considers 1 meg to be 1024K,
that's why you see only 528, the theoretical limit. Sort of like "how many
people can you fit in a 6 passenger automobile...7 - 8 - 10..? Depends on how
big the people are, not how many seats you have.
You haven't lost any drive space, it's all there.
Tom
Wei Wu
>In article <3vm3pj$2...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>, ml...@bnr.ca says...
>>
>>In article <3vlpqu$k...@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> gm...@jpmorgan.com writes:
>>>Sorry if I missed this, but I was wondering if my system (circa 1992) would
>>>be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
>>
>>Linux: yes
>>Win95: no
>Actually, the operating system doesn't make a bit of difference. Your
>drive controller's bios either supports the whole drive, or it doesn't.
>In either case, you can buy a fairly cheap replacement EIDE multi
>controller (~$35 for a DTC, or ~$50 for a promise 2300+) that has it's
>own bios, and will support any ide drive at any size.
Does any one know a good place to get PCI EIDE card ? And how much
wiil that be ? I have an old PCI machine which does not have EIDE
controller integrated on the motherboard. All the ads. here I see are
VLB EIDE card.
Thanks.
Wei Wu (wu...@cs.nyu.edu)
C Rohrmeier
Mark Notarus
>drive controller's bios either supports the whole drive, or it doesn't.
>In either case, you can buy a fairly cheap replacement EIDE multi
>controller (~$35 for a DTC, or ~$50 for a promise 2300+) that has it's
>own bios, and will support any ide drive at any size.
I've been corrected by a number of authorities, and the fact is, my
answer was wrong. Thanks for the corrections, and feel free to stop
mailing me to tell me i was wrong. :)
mark
C Rohrmeier
[...]
>>>but I was wondering if my system (circa 1992) would be able to use a
>>>large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or Linux.
>>Linux: yes Win95: no
>In either case, you can buy a fairly cheap replacement EIDE multi
>controller (~$35 for a DTC, or ~$50 for a promise 2300+) that has it's
>own bios, and will support any ide drive at any size.
Either that or get a $25 GSI model 18 IDE accellorator. Takes any size
E/IDE drive. No drivers needed. Works for DOS, OS/2, Linux, Win95.
-Christian
--
l.cheung
|> It all depends on whether you consider 1 meg = to 1,000K or 1,024K. At 1,000,
|> your drive is a 540, using 1,024 it's a 528. DOS considers 1 meg to be 1024K,
|> that's why you see only 528, the theoretical limit. Sort of like "how many
|> people can you fit in a 6 passenger automobile...7 - 8 - 10..? Depends on how
|> big the people are, not how many seats you have.
|>
|> You haven't lost any drive space, it's all there.
I see...so it's all a marketing con then, right? ^_^;
Thanks.
Li
Lyle E. Dodge
That is ISN, the Internet Shopping Network. They have tons of stuff like that. I
don't know for sure if they have PCI-EIDE or not, but it is worth a check.
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Lyle Dodge dod...@wwc.edu http://www.wwc.edu/student/dodgly/ |
| "If you take home anything, let it be your will to think..." |
| Check out the Walla Walla College Libertarian's Web Page: |
| http://www.wwc.edu/student/dodgly/liberty/liberty.htm |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
MediaQueen
Since Ameritech bought Aquiline laptops, I've been going through hoops
trying to get in touch with Aquiline regarding my Hurricane laptop.
I want some extra RAM + maybe some other parts. I'm also
concerned about renewing my warranty, which expires soon.
Aquiline phones are disconnected and I've gotten NOWHERE with
Ameritech. Any tips or leads would be greatly appreciated.
**Also, Tom and Anthony, my Aquiline salesmen: Are you out
there?
Tks, in advance.
eh...@columbia.edu
Peter Palmer
Megs you buy. changes are requuire in your CMOS settings or else you'll
end up with boot problems. Pluto Technology here in Singapore, make em,
sell em but know nothing about em - welcome to asia.pp
lo...@neosoft.com
>>drive controller's bios either supports the whole drive, or it doesn't.
>>controller (~$35 for a DTC, or ~$50 for a promise 2300+) that has it's
>>own bios, and will support any ide drive at any size.
>
>
Watch out - the EIDE2300 shipped with some flaky drivers! They'll severely
slow your system, if not lock it completely. It was only a few batches, though.
LOS
lo...@popmail.neosoft.com
Roger Wilkerson
>Path: news2.aimnet.com!aimnet.com!news.sprintlink.net!warp.cris.com!Bcouture
>From: Bcou...@cris.com (BCOUTURE)
>Newsgroups:
alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,ba.forsale,biz.comp.hardware,ca.forsale,comp.os.li
nux.hardware,comp.periphs,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardwa
re.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,misc.forsale.
computers
>Subject: Re: use of large (>540Mb) IDE on older comp
>Date: 2 Aug 1995 19:26:33 GMT
>Organization: Concentric Internet Services
>Lines: 23
>Message-ID: <3vojh9$m...@warp.cris.com>
>References: <3vjotj$h...@ci.ist.utl.pt> <3vlpqu$k...@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com>
<3vm3pj$2...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: voyager-fddi.cris.com
>Xref: news2.aimnet.com alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:11196 ba.forsale:2879
biz.comp.hardware:17618 ca.forsale:11003 comp.os.linux.hardware:15554
comp.periphs:11911 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:32880
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage:36541 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems:21763
comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:68454 misc.forsale.computers:259
>Status: N
>
>ml...@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>
>>In article <3vlpqu$k...@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> gm...@jpmorgan.com writes:
>>>be able to use a large HD (WD Cav2450 or WD Cav31200) under Win95 and/or
Linux.
>
>>Linux: yes
>
>>Win95: no
>>ml...@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
>>For latest Linux kernels:
ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:/pub/Software/Linux/Kernel/v1.[23]
>>For Linux IDE (big/many) help, see: /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.ide
>
>is an antique, so what would I need? An EIDE board with its own BIOS?
>Drivers? (and where would I find them)?
>
>
>Bill <bcou...@cris.com>
>
>
Try the Promise 2300 Plus
-----------------------------------------------
Roger Wilkerson............. Search Specialists
Voice:(408)224-8886...........Fax:(408)224-5085
......email: rog...@hhunt.com
stephb
We also see, a lot of the time, that even with our Disk Manager (or
something else to get past the 512 barrier) it is still very difficult to
put large IDE drives in old PCs. The issue isn't size - it's timing. The
large IDE drives are typically much faster than those old PCs ever
thought a drive could be.
Stephanie Brady
Ontrack Tech Support
The opinions expressed are my own and not
necessarily those of my employer,
Ontrack Computer Systems