Should I buy Packard Bell?
Ken Siegel
I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
are trouble right out of the box?
P.S. I'm new to this group, so please forgive me if this posting is
inappropriate to this group, or in any other way. And if it is,
please let me know (like I could stop it anyway:-) )
Philippe J. Yarbrough
I suggest you stay away from PB systems. From personal experiences I
suggest you look at another brand. I have had 4 PB and with each I had
nothing but hardware failures. Each time I ended up having to take it back
to Circuit city and having to get another PB (they would only allow me to
exchange for another PB system). The last one I got lasted the longest (3
months), then the CD-ROM would no longer read CDs ( PB service took 5
weeks to replace it). After 3 months, the sound card would no longer work (
took 12 weeks and 6 calls to their service center before someone was
scheduled to replace the soundcard. Then before they could replace the
soundcard (about 2 weeks after the soundcard stopped working) the power box
stopped working. therefore after 12 weeks the sound card was ready to be
replaced but I had to wait another 2 weeks before the power box was
available. So now I had a new CD-ROM, soundcard, and power box and though
OK that just about should solve everything. WRONG again. For the next 2
weeks I had nothing but daily system crashes ( those nice blue screens)
and my system could no longer read the floppy drive!!!!. PB tech support
then decided that they wanted to replace the motherboard, the floppy drive
and the hard drive ( which occasionally made loud high pitched screeching
and grinding noises, and I don't mean the familiar hard Drive access noise
either) but it would be 5 weeks before they would be able to send someone
out to even look at the system and then they would order the parts they
needed and no telling how long it would take to get the parts. Now the
question that is probably in everyone's mind after reading this is why did
I not take it back to circuit city as I had the others? Well that is
because after having taken back 3 PB, the manager would no longer do an
exchange unless I had at least 3 service calls in 12 months on the system
and had all the documentations of the service calls from PB. So if PB had
their way, I would have a new CD-ROM, floppy drive, motherboard, soundcard,
and hard drive and I had the system for less than a year (got it in June
1995 and we were now in late Feb 1996). My original PB was purchased Jan
1995. I finally took the system back and all the documentations of hardware
replacements by PB and demanded that I receive a replacement and different
brand . Circuit City replaced it with an NEC Ready 9542 133Mhz Pent and
gave me and additional 16MB of RAM as consolation of my nightmares with PB.
Though I don't expect any system to be perfect (I have had minor problems
with the NEC computer all of them quickly solved by NEC and all software
related) my current system I have had for Almost a year now and no hardware
problems. plus if the power box on this NEC ever fails, I can simply go to
a local hardware retailer and purchase generic power box and know it will
fit and function on my system (most of the hardware on the PB were
proprietary, that is you can only get the part from the system manufacturer
and at a hefty price if it is no longer under warranty) . So once again I
highly recommend from personal experiences to stay away from PB
Ps. One sore note though is that as of Aug 1996 PB and Nec have
unfortunately merged and one can see the changes by the way NEC tech
support has become rude and hateful as PB is. My next system I will build
myself and in fact I have started the project.
Ken Siegel <ks...@panix.com> wrote in article
<5chd3n$b...@news1.panix.com>...
Krikor Mouradian
Ken Siegel wrote:
>
> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
> them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
> are trouble right out of the box?
>
> P.S. I'm new to this group, so please forgive me if this posting is
> inappropriate to this group, or in any other way. And if it is,
> please let me know (like I could stop it anyway:-) )
ARE YOU CRAZY????
If you get a Packard Bell and open up the box it came in, you just
opened PANDORA'S BOX!!! AARRRRRGGGGHHHH! :)
Here's why:
A while back ago friend of mine had a Packard Bell 133 and he asked me
to install a new cd-rom drive he got. So I did, and this is what I
found out.
1. Packard Bell uses no name brand hardware (and if they do have a
namebrand they are the lowest quality)
2. Packard Bell's computer cases is a pain in the a## to take off.
3. Packard Bell's computer interior is highly crowded with no room to
work with.
4. Packard Bell's computer usually break down within just 2 to 3 years.
(Just check out all the reviews)
5. Packard Bell is one of the SLOWEST computer on the market.
Believe me they are, I Benchmarked my friends Packard Bell and compared
it to a Dell, Gateway, IBM, Hewlett Packard, Compaq, AST, ACER and
various others with Packard Bell being on the lowest.
6. To answer your last question, yes you can upgrade them, but its
just a Pain in the a## where everythings arranged out inside the system.
You got the hard drive sitting on the bottom sitting vertically. It
will probably real hard to hook up another one. (not impossible, just
hard)
You can't even see the damn cpu. (its covered by another board)
To make it short, everything is inaccessable inside the cpu.
I am suprised that with so much crowdiness that the damn thing doesn't
overheat.
I am glad I got a hewlett packard, I can trust this baby will last me a
while. :)
Rick
Ken Siegel wrote:
>
> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
> them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
> are trouble right out of the box?
>
> P.S. I'm new to this group, so please forgive me if this posting is
> inappropriate to this group, or in any other way. And if it is,
> please let me know (like I could stop it anyway:-) )
Ken,
IMHO, they're junk. Of all the PB systems I've had to deal with (quite a
few), none ship with L2 cache! Can you believe that? Also, much of the
construction is usually proprietary, including their BIOS. (Even their
damnable power supplies are proprietary. To exacerbate the problem, PB
*refuses* even to *sell* one to you if your system is out of warranty...
and if you *can* get one somehow, perhaps through some gray-market
vendor, they cost about four or five times what a standard p/s costs.)
Finally, their tech support is notorious for being just about the worst
in the world. I can verify that. Just try calling them when you have a
dead system and see how easy it is to reach someone (anyone!), yet alone
have them make good on their "one-year onsite warranty." My ass!
Sorry for the bad review, but I'd sure as heck never waste my money on
one.
-rmf
D.O.G.G.
DON'T BUY PACKARD BELL!!! I'm using one right now.. and it SUCKS!!
Really slow and breaks down easily. Monitor broke down right after the
warranty was up. You can upgrade them, but you'd be better off with a
different computer. Get a Dell.. I am.
brad stone
In Article<32ED26...@nb.net>, <r...@nb.net> write:
> Path: oak.ic.mankato.mn.us!urvile.msus.edu!news1.mr.net!mr.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.emi.com!emerald.nb.net!news
> From: Rick <r...@nb.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc
> Subject: Re: Should I buy Packard Bell?
> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:05:18 -0500
> Organization: The National Business Network Inc. (localconnect(sm))
> Lines: 31
> Message-ID: <32ED26...@nb.net>
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> To: Ken Siegel <ks...@panix.com>
> Xref: oak.ic.mankato.mn.us comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems:37008 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc:61217
>
> Ken Siegel wrote:
> >
> > I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
> > MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
> > about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
> > them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
> > are trouble right out of the box?
> >
> > P.S. I'm new to this group, so please forgive me if this posting is
> > inappropriate to this group, or in any other way. And if it is,
> > please let me know (like I could stop it anyway:-) )
>
> Ken,
>
> IMHO, they're junk. Of all the PB systems I've had to deal with (quite a
> few), none ship with L2 cache! Can you believe that? Also, much of the
> construction is usually proprietary, including their BIOS. (Even their
> damnable power supplies are proprietary. To exacerbate the problem, PB
> *refuses* even to *sell* one to you if your system is out of warranty...
> and if you *can* get one somehow, perhaps through some gray-market
> vendor, they cost about four or five times what a standard p/s costs.)
>
> Finally, their tech support is notorious for being just about the worst
> in the world. I can verify that. Just try calling them when you have a
> dead system and see how easy it is to reach someone (anyone!), yet alone
> have them make good on their "one-year onsite warranty." My ass!
>
> Sorry for the bad review, but I'd sure as heck never waste my money on
> one.
>
> -rmf
I must agree, that Packard Bell is crap. I bought one (then returned it after
my troubles). The tech support sucked. The CD Rom crapped out 1 day after
buying it and it took me 2 weeks to get a guy in to replace it. And sice the
getgo, it would just freeze up, without warning, always causing the loss of
whatever I was working on.
I called tech support on the freezing, and they told me to format my hard
drive and reinstall everything. What a freakin joke. I did it to amuse him
and told him it didn't work. "Well, I don't know what's wrong then."
The "It's their software, not our hardware" attitude pissed me off. I
returned it and bought an NEC, and have not had one single problem.
So, don't buy it, and if PB is reading thing, Nwa! *thumb to nose*
Theral Mackey
In article <32ED26...@nb.net>, Rick <r...@nb.net> wrote:
>Ken Siegel wrote:
>>
>> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
>> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
>> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
>> them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
>> are trouble right out of the box?
>
>
>IMHO, they're junk. Of all the PB systems I've had to deal with (quite a
>few), none ship with L2 cache! Can you believe that? Also, much of the
>construction is usually proprietary, including their BIOS. (Even their
>damnable power supplies are proprietary. To exacerbate the problem, PB
>*refuses* even to *sell* one to you if your system is out of warranty...
>and if you *can* get one somehow, perhaps through some gray-market
>vendor, they cost about four or five times what a standard p/s costs.)
>
>Finally, their tech support is notorious for being just about the worst
>in the world. I can verify that. Just try calling them when you have a
>dead system and see how easy it is to reach someone (anyone!), yet alone
>have them make good on their "one-year onsite warranty." My ass!
>
>Sorry for the bad review, but I'd sure as heck never waste my money on
>one.
Actually, that review is kinda modest for PB. Theirsystems are the
absolute worst on the face of the earth. All their hardware is
proprietary, form their L2-less motherboards, to their floppy drives. Not
that proprietary is bad, but their's is just plain cheap crap. Their
systems have the slowest benchmarks of any on the market. The last bench
mark I saw in Computer Shopper was their p120, the benchmark was a Dell
xps 90. Needless to say, the PB was slower than the benchmark in all
catagories, and not by some small difference either. I have worked on
numberous PB's, each less than a week old, and each witch it's own unique
and strange problems. One was one day old and had about 1MB worth of bad
sectors on the hard drive. Another blew its IO interfaces after one week.
The problems go on and on. Not only is their hardware proprietary, their
software for the most part is too. The computer with the bad sectors was
running Packard Hell's version of Windoze 3.1. It had a bunch of cheezy
graphics and a demo tour thing that wouldn't go away. Packard Hell sux,
just do a web search for Packard Hell, or Packard Bell Hate Page adn see
how many entries pop up. Boycott them, they suck, and they ripoff the
unknowing customer every day with their "neat" looking cases and cheap
prices.
T-mack
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
T-mack gt3...@prism.gatech.edu Theral Mackey
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~tm92 http://tmack.gt.ed.net
All unsolicited ads sent to my server subject to maximum Fines
fuj...@tiac.net
Ken Siegel wrote:
>
> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
> them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
> are trouble right out of the box?
>
> inappropriate to this group, or in any other way. And if it is,
> please let me know (like I could stop it anyway:-) )
ONLY FOOLS BUY PACKARD BELLS!!!!!!!
Jim Dompier
Philippe J. Yarbrough wrote:
>
> I suggest you stay away from PB systems. From personal experiences I
Sounds like you got lucky! <G> Most people can't even get through to
them on the phone.
--
Jim Dompier
IslandSoft
isle...@lava.net
http://www.lava.net/~islesoft/
Jim Dompier
Ken Siegel wrote:
>
> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
Wow! Not one positive review. I guess that answers your questions huh
Ken?
I took a part time job at Computer City for a while from June to
December, and while I was there, we had the folks from Packard Bell come
in to show us their new line.
Of course *She* was met with snide remarks and everything else. Someone
asked her to just cut through the crap, and tell us what the problem
was.
She said that Packard bell's user base had grown so fast that they
couldn't keep up. She said that for 2 years running, Packard Bell sold
more consumer PC's in the U.S. then any other manufacturer. This is why
you cannot get through to their tech support. And the problem isn't
going away soon either. She said that they had spent as much money as
they can afford to spend on tech support. This compiled with some bad
hardware choices.
They have just started manufacturing their own systems now, in a state
of the art facility in California. Supposedly, this will resolve the
hardware issues. But the tech support ones will still be there for a
while.
Look for Packard bell computers to disappear, and come back under some
other name. They have just gotten too much bad publicity to be able to
survive.....
Perry Marlin, Jr.
for awhile. Also as long as they make sweet deals with the major retailers
like they have in the past they will still be a major force in the Home PC
market. You got alot of buyers out there that are too timid to buy mail order
or direct and will go on down to Sears get conned and buy a PB.
Andrew Chiang
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:45:05 -0500, fuj...@tiac.net wrote:
>Ken Siegel wrote:
>>
>> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
>> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
>> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
>> them? Are they a problem only if you try to modify/upgrade them, or
>> are trouble right out of the box?
>>
>> P.S. I'm new to this group, so please forgive me if this posting is
>> inappropriate to this group, or in any other way. And if it is,
>> please let me know (like I could stop it anyway:-) )
>
>
>ONLY FOOLS BUY PACKARD BELLS!!!!!!!
Agreed. They come w/totally non-standard cases and motherboards,
forget trying to upgrade it by getting an off the shelf motherboard.
Their monitors are crap, and the soundcard that they all come with has
got to be the worst piece of junk. Usually they throw in an Aztec
Sound Galaxy Washington or some variant of it.... it's a
modem/soundcard combo that eats up IRQ 4,5,9,10, and 11 all in one!
IRQ3 is taken up by the serial port on the motherboard, IRQ 12 is
taken up by the PS/2 mouse port, and 14 and 15 are taken up by the IDE
primary and secondary channel. On some machines that I've come
across, disabling COM2 in the CMOS which takes up IRQ3 causes strange
problems and the IRQ still isn't freed up. Talk about great
expandibility.
It makes you wonder whether they use their own machines on a network
(since on some, it's next to impossible to fiddle with it to get net
card working on it) and whether they expand their machines in any way.
Also, many of the Packard Hells ship w/no cache RAM (I think they
finally stopped doing that). Admittedly, some of the other components
honestly aren't too terrible, the CD-ROM drives and floppy drives seem
okay.
Also, their spacesaving desktops have virtually no expandibility since
all their drive bays are eaten up, and they might have 2 free
expansion slots. I've actually, seen some of their medium towers ship
with all 3 ISA slots taken up (1 by the soundcard/modem behemoth, 1 by
a TV card, and then the last taken up by a radio card).
What's really laughable is some of their monitor/system unit in one
designs, on those, a short monitor cable actually comes out of the
back of the monitor portion, and connects to the video connector on
the motherboard (which is obviously part of the same unit).
You'd be far better off building your own machine with quality
components, and it'd be cheaper than a Packard Hell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Chiang 5th year Computer Science
and...@seas.ucla.edu "Real programmers don't document. If it
http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~andrewc was hard to write, it should be hard
to understand."
Michael A. Jar
In article <5d2ngg$p...@ns2.sirinet.net>, pma...@sirinet.net says...
> In article <32F471...@lava.net>, isle...@lava.net wrote:
> >Ken Siegel wrote:
> >>
> >> I've got the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Packard Bell P133
> >> MultiMedia system. However, I've read some none-to-flattering things
> >> about their systems lately. What exactly is supposed to be wrong with
<snip>
Words to the contrary!
I have a Packard Bell P100 PC that is 12 months old. It is true that PB
certainly is not in the running if you are after the latest,
fastest......etc., etc., but as with any buying decision you have to
balance up what you want to do with it, and how much you can afford.
From what I have seen, PB machines have average reliability and not bad
tech support (way better in my experience than some "other" companies),
although they actually seem to be getting worse in the quality of the
advice they give. I have expanded my PC greatly over the months (extra
HD, SCSI devices, additional RAM) with no problems.
The thing with PB is that they have a good price point, and for the
average user who is going to do some net surfing, word processing and
play some games etc., they are probably good enough. If you want ultimate
performance, look somewhere else and be prepared to pay more.
For me PB is a good entry level PC for a good price. My next PC will not
be PB for the reason just given, I consider it an entry level PC. The
next PC I get, I will either build myself or go to a company like Dell
and have them configure it the way I want it.
Conclusion, if you want a basic home PC and your needs are not too
demanding, go ahead and buy the PB.
Michael.
Kenneth Smith
From PBA (Packard Bell annonomus) - Another timid hand up...
My first *new* computer was a Packard Bell Force 204 486. I >Never had any
problems with it, despite my best efforts. :)
I also did a lot of upgrades to it (CD Rom, Memory, extra drives, ect.)
and it never was difficult.
I'll admit I hated that riser card though...
--
Ken Smith can also be reached at kits...@aol.com
Will Dormann
>I have a Packard Bell P100 PC that is 12 months old. It is true that PB
>certainly is not in the running if you are after the latest,
>fastest......etc., etc., but as with any buying decision you have to
>balance up what you want to do with it, and how much you can afford.
A PB is not worth any amount a store will charge you. Period.
>From what I have seen, PB machines have average reliability and not bad
>tech support (way better in my experience than some "other" companies),
>although they actually seem to be getting worse in the quality of the
>advice they give. I have expanded my PC greatly over the months (extra
>HD, SCSI devices, additional RAM) with no problems.
Fair reliability, perhaps. Tech support is the pits. I have never seen
worse. (They _may_ have changed since I had my system, though). Component
quality is absolutely pathetic. We all know about the lawsuit for putting
*used* components in "new" systems, right?? For those who don't, check out:
http://www.newstimes.com/archive/jun0796/cph.htm
>The thing with PB is that they have a good price point, and for the
>average user who is going to do some net surfing, word processing and
>play some games etc., they are probably good enough. If you want ultimate
>performance, look somewhere else and be prepared to pay more.
Wrong-o! For the obnoxious amount that chain stores charge for a PB, you
can get a screamer of a system, which is *STANDARD* and *UPGRADABLE* from
Computer Shopper. (2 words PB has no knowledge of)
>Conclusion, if you want a basic home PC and your needs are not too
>demanding, go ahead and buy the PB.
Ugh, I think I'm going to be sick! ;)
-Will
LMaes1966
Hey..let's talk class action on this PB issue! I've only had the
misfortune to work on two of them and that was for friends but i made the
calls to their tech support and after about 50 bucks in phone bills
(because i couldn't get through on 800#) they laughed and said they
didn't know the main line phone# to PB HQ. I told them i wanted to become
local serv.center they couldn't advise me how to contact any one in any
other department. so we have a major electronics mfgr in the USA that
apearently doesn't have to be responsable for their products. hell what
about the lemon laws!!! class action got a lot of people free time and
money back from aol this month. I seen a lot of complaints (war stories)
about PB. lets do something. thanks
Mark D Morris
On Mon, 10 Feb 97 03:58:00 GMT, s020...@cc.ysu.edu (Will Dormann)
wrote:
>>I have a Packard Bell P100 PC that is 12 months old. It is true that PB
>>certainly is not in the running if you are after the latest,
>>fastest......etc., etc., but as with any buying decision you have to
>>balance up what you want to do with it, and how much you can afford.
>
>A PB is not worth any amount a store will charge you. Period.
>
>text deleted<
>-Will
I'll concur here. PB is a rock solid pitiful machine. I just
steered a purchaser away from a PB at a chain store today (I don't
work there, but he asked me). I told him take the IBM -- it was the
best the store had and he didn't have time for mail order. If you
EVER want to upgrade a PB you can't even add a damn new sound card.
Everything is of the lowest quality available. As Will stated PB
doesn't seem to grasp the concept of UPGRADABILITY or QUALITY
components. Whatever you decide to buy don't even consider a PB!!
They're the worst machines available!!
Mark
Floyd Drennon
In message <33000ebe...@news.fdt.net> - mor...@yoda.fdt.net (Mark
D Morris) writes:
:> I'll concur here. PB is a rock solid pitiful machine. I just
:> steered a purchaser away from a PB at a chain store today (I don't
:> work there, but he asked me). I told him take the IBM -- it was the
:> best the store had and he didn't have time for mail order. If you
I seem to remember reading something some months ago that said Packard
Bell was building some (all?) if the IBM consumer grade machines.
However, I don't remember the source.
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Floyd Drennon <fdre...@pobox.com>
Comp-U-Comm - Computer & Communication Consultants
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry
Mark D Morris wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Feb 97 03:58:00 GMT, s020...@cc.ysu.edu (Will Dormann)
> wrote:
>
> >>I have a Packard Bell P100 PC that is 12 months old. It is true that PB
> >>certainly is not in the running if you are after the latest,
> >>fastest......etc., etc., but as with any buying decision you have to
> >>balance up what you want to do with it, and how much you can afford.
> >
> >A PB is not worth any amount a store will charge you. Period.
> >
> >text deleted<
>
> >-Will
> steered a purchaser away from a PB at a chain store today (I don't
> work there, but he asked me). I told him take the IBM -- it was the
> best the store had and he didn't have time for mail order. If you
> Everything is of the lowest quality available. As Will stated PB
> doesn't seem to grasp the concept of UPGRADABILITY or QUALITY
> components. Whatever you decide to buy don't even consider a PB!!
> They're the worst machines available!!
>
> Mark
What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
support I got from the PB techs. No one in their right mind would
suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
r...@geocities.net
I agree with Larry
I have a PB and love it so far. The only problems I have had were cause
from my lack of knowlege. My relatives also have PB computers and none
of them have had any problems. It's a good little computer to learn on
and the price was right at the time.
--
email me at r...@geocities.com
Check out my web page on my Packard Bell Computer
at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2094/
also linked to my Environmental Science Web Pages
James Calvert
Hello:
I don't want to get into a big dispute about Packard Bells, but they
really are low quality machines. I was asked by a non-techinal owner of
one to see why his modem was so slow. He had paid $1800 for his system
just a year ago from a major retail outlet. After checking out his
system, I found that it only had a 2400 KBPS modem in it. I had a spare
14.4, so I opened up the case, intending to REPLACE that modem with my
spare. Guess what, the 2400 modem was RIVETED to the motherboard. The
next thing I noticed was that you can't plug ANYTHING into the
motherboard. This Packard Bell is a desktop unit, and because the
cabinet height is so low, no printed circuit boards can be mounted to
the motherboard vertically. Packard Bell got around this problem by
designing a shallow height board containing the ISA sockets needed for
expansion. This is the ONLY board that plugs directly into the
motherboard. All add-on boards, such as sound cards, modems, etc., must
then plug into that board. As a result, the add-on boards are parallel
to the motherboard so that the overall circuitry requires TWO
connections instead of one. As any engineer can tell you, fewer
connections make for fewer problems. So anyway, my only option was to
install the spare modem into this shallow board, leaving the original
modem still installed. I hate to think what kind of difficulty I would
have encountered installing a 16-bit board, the board weight alone would
have soon caused poor connections to occur.
This is not hogwash, just a few observations. There are plenty of great
machines out there (many are generic), but Packard Bell and IBM are, I'm
afraid, not among them.
Michael Holl
Andrew Chiang <and...@seas.ucla.edu> wrote in article
<32f5ada4...@news.ucla.edu>...
> On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:45:05 -0500, fuj...@tiac.net wrote:
>
> Agreed. They come w/totally non-standard cases and motherboards,
> forget trying to upgrade it by getting an off the shelf motherboard.
Problem #1 with my Packard Bell.
> Their monitors are crap,
Problem #2 with my Packard Bell. (The colors on the monitor are all
screwed
up about 50% of the time I boot up the system. It's a decent
15" model, too.)
> and the soundcard that they all come with has
> got to be the worst piece of junk. Usually they throw in an Aztec
> Sound Galaxy Washington or some variant of it.... it's a
> modem/soundcard combo that eats up IRQ 4,5,9,10, and 11 all in one!
> IRQ3 is taken up by the serial port on the motherboard, IRQ 12 is
> taken up by the PS/2 mouse port, and 14 and 15 are taken up by the IDE
> primary and secondary channel.
Problem #3 with my Packard Bell. (That along with the fact that
the card isn't SB16 compatible, which sucks for DOS games.)
> On some machines that I've come
> across, disabling COM2 in the CMOS which takes up IRQ3 causes strange
> problems and the IRQ still isn't freed up. Talk about great
> expandibility.
Problem #4 with my Packard Bell.
> It makes you wonder whether they use their own machines on a network
> (since on some, it's next to impossible to fiddle with it to get net
> card working on it) and whether they expand their machines in any way.
> Also, many of the Packard Hells ship w/no cache RAM (I think they
> finally stopped doing that).
Problem #5 with my Packard Bell.
> Admittedly, some of the other components
> honestly aren't too terrible, the CD-ROM drives and floppy drives seem
> okay.
>
> Also, their spacesaving desktops have virtually no expandibility since
> all their drive bays are eaten up, and they might have 2 free
> expansion slots. I've actually, seen some of their medium towers ship
> with all 3 ISA slots taken up (1 by the soundcard/modem behemoth, 1 by
> a TV card, and then the last taken up by a radio card).
>
> What's really laughable is some of their monitor/system unit in one
> designs, on those, a short monitor cable actually comes out of the
> back of the monitor portion, and connects to the video connector on
> the motherboard (which is obviously part of the same unit).
>
> You'd be far better off building your own machine with quality
> components, and it'd be cheaper than a Packard Hell.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Chiang 5th year Computer Science
> and...@seas.ucla.edu "Real programmers don't document.
If it
> http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~andrewc was hard to write, it should be
hard
> to understand."
>
Wow... you've just about covered it all right there. Where were you
when I bought this damn thing?
Michael Holl
--
loc...@imsa.edu
Will Dormann
>What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
>upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
>have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
>support I got from the PB techs
Just keep telling yourself that. . . maybe you can try to justify the
money you threw away on the system! :)
But seriously, RAM and Floppy drives are standard for virtually any system.
They're usually no problem to upgrade. Now, with a Packard Bell, first of
all, they use non-standard cases. Ever try to go and put in a new
motherboard?? Well, if it doesn't have a PB sticker (And Price tag! $$$) on
it, chances are it just won't fit. Just another scheme to get you to
continue buying PB parts.
Second, they use "all-in-one" motherboards to keep their own cost down. It
_IS_ possible to upgrade a lot of them, but when you upgrade, you will have a
video card or a modem or whatever sitting idle built into your motherboard.
They also have combo cards, such as a combination soundcard and modem. When
you want to upgrade the modem, the soundcard goes with it, too. And since
PB usually isn't very generous with the expansion slots, this can pose a
problem.
Finally, consider the quality of the components themselves. Compare 2
Packard Bell systems, the same models, but made at different times. Chances
are, they aren't the same. How's that? Well, PB is constantly searching
for the *CHEAPEST* components for their computers. If a different hard
drive model is cheaper one month, they'll put it in. So if you buy a PB
system, what you will get is a mish-mosh of the CHEAPEST (which usually
follows along with low quality) components.
Now, I'm sure from all these posts, that you all know to stay away from PB,
but I just want to make sure nobody out there makes that mistake.
-Will
Ron Ablang
Will Dormann wrote:
> Now, I'm sure from all these posts, that you all know to stay away from PB,
> but I just want to make sure nobody out there makes that mistake.
I made that mistake many years ago. I will never make that again!
I just wish I had done my homework back then before buying it or have
someone tell me what NOT to buy...
--
Main Home Page - http://www.netforward.com/poboxes/?ablang
Computer Games Sale - http://gaia.csus.edu/~ablangr/sale.html
Secondary Site - http://members.tripod.com/~ablang
The Callisto Page - http://gaia.csus.edu/~ablangr/cal
"Ah, don't move pretty. That sentimental side of you is a real problem
now,
isn't it? You fight with your heart. That gives me advantage over you. I
no longer seem to have one. I'm not gonna to kill you now. Oh no. First
I'm going to kill your soul; just like you killed mine... See you soon
my
sweet." -- Callisto, from Xena: Warrior Princess
Matt Ostiguy
Larry wrote:
>
>
>
>
> What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
> upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
> have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
> suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
Hmmm. You probably had to upgrade both your modem *and* sound card
because they were both on the same generic card. The video was probably
substandard as well. If someone gave me a PB today, I wouldn't want a
single component inside. Although usually overpriced, IBM makes rock
solid machines. To take a PB over an IBM is silly.
matt
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Matt Ostiguy-Caffeine Fiend-International Jezzball Champ-
- Representin' Randolph, Ma-Trapped in DC-
-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My Page: http://auvm.american.edu/~mo0198a/home.html
The Boston Hardcore Page: http://auvm.american.edu/~mo0198a/boston.htm
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bill
Matt Ostiguy wrote:
> > What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
> > upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
> > have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
> > support I got from the PB techs. No one in their right mind would
> > suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
>
> Hmmm. You probably had to upgrade both your modem *and* sound card
> because they were both on the same generic card. The video was probably
> substandard as well. If someone gave me a PB today, I wouldn't want a
> single component inside. Although usually overpriced, IBM makes rock
> solid machines. To take a PB over an IBM is silly.
If someone offers you a free PB, let me know. I'll take it. I'm not that
finicky. On the Legend 10CD I was given for free the modem was seperate
from the sound board. The SB was a forte 16, and it drove the CDROM.
The CD has a panasonic interface, nothing too unusual. The Video is
more than adequate for a starter system/kid's first computer.
4meg onboard, with 2 72 pin sim slots, not bad. Lot's of CPU upgrade
paths. Etc, Etc, ...
PB tech support has been very helpful so far. Lots of free info on
the MB straps, modem info, video info, CDROM info.
Larry
Matt Ostiguy wrote:
>
> Larry wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
> > upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
> > have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
> > support I got from the PB techs. No one in their right mind would
> > suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
>
> Hmmm. You probably had to upgrade both your modem *and* sound card
> because they were both on the same generic card. The video was probably
> substandard as well. If someone gave me a PB today, I wouldn't want a
> single component inside. Although usually overpriced, IBM makes rock
> solid machines. To take a PB over an IBM is silly.
>
>
> --
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=
> Matt Ostiguy-Caffeine Fiend-International Jezzball Champ-
> - Representin' Randolph, Ma-Trapped in DC-
> -=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-
> My Page: http://auvm.american.edu/~mo0198a/home.html
> The Boston Hardcore Page: http://auvm.american.edu/~mo0198a/boston.htm
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-
Actually, the video was on the MB and it had no sound card at all.
Perhaps saying I upgraded the soundcard was a bit misleading. I would
never spend money on an IBM machine and in the one case in which I was
given one I donated it to the church(I'm sorry God)rather than even
mess with it.
Chris Quirke
Matt Ostiguy <mo0...@american.edu> wrote:
>Hmmm. You probably had to upgrade both your modem *and* sound card
>because they were both on the same generic card. The video was probably
>substandard as well. If someone gave me a PB today, I wouldn't want a
>single component inside. Although usually overpriced, IBM makes rock
>solid machines. To take a PB over an IBM is silly.
To look no further than IBM-or-PB isn't much smarter. IBMs also
inflicted proprietary RAM, non-standard slimline cases, built-in VGA,
486DXn systems with 0k L2 cache on thier victims. Remember the PS/2,
with funny connectors galore, and MCA bus with no backward ISA
compatibility? Remember the PS/1, with hardware PC-DOS 4.0 that
couldn't run Lemmings because it "wasn't compatible"?
Dennis R. Juds Jr.
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:33:41 -0600, Bill <horw...@cig.mot.com> wrote:
>Matt Ostiguy wrote:
>
>> > What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
>> > upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
>> > have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
>> > support I got from the PB techs. No one in their right mind would
>> > suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
>>
>> Hmmm. You probably had to upgrade both your modem *and* sound card
>> because they were both on the same generic card. The video was probably
>> substandard as well. If someone gave me a PB today, I wouldn't want a
>> single component inside. Although usually overpriced, IBM makes rock
>> solid machines. To take a PB over an IBM is silly.
>
>If someone offers you a free PB, let me know. I'll take it. I'm not that
>finicky. On the Legend 10CD I was given for free the modem was seperate
>from the sound board. The SB was a forte 16, and it drove the CDROM.
>The CD has a panasonic interface, nothing too unusual. The Video is
>more than adequate for a starter system/kid's first computer.
>4meg onboard, with 2 72 pin sim slots, not bad. Lot's of CPU upgrade
>paths. Etc, Etc, ...
>
>PB tech support has been very helpful so far. Lots of free info on
>the MB straps, modem info, video info, CDROM info.
I never Had any problems upgrading my Packard Bell either. In fact, I
still have stuff from that system in the Petuim machine that I built,
Granted I needed different RAM, video card and a New case, but the
Hard drive, Modem, Sound card, (independant cards), CD-ROM, and
Floppies (3 1/2 & 5 1/4) Hey the stuff works! That Packard Bell was
my introduction to the PC world, I had been using a bunch of various
other Machines before Zenith Desktops, C-64, Atari 400/ 800 Macintosh
(the Original). I learned A lot, and I'm Gratefull I didn't buy
anything like those Cheesy one piece jobs like the new Toshiba or
compacs. I actually like to pop the Top and tinker, it's kinda cool.
So yes I would buy another Packard Bell, but I would also look at how
the thing is built, as most are bullet-proof, ya just gotta read da
docs man!!
"I'm Just a soul whoose intentions are good, Oh Lord please
dont let me be misunderstood" Eric Burden.
"You can't get what you want 'Till you know WHAT you want" -- Joe Jackson
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance"-- ?????
"I'm Just another guy doin' just another thing" -- den...@nlci.com
Larry
Chris Quirke wrote:
>
> Matt Ostiguy <mo0...@american.edu> wrote:
>
> >Hmmm. You probably had to upgrade both your modem *and* sound card
> >because they were both on the same generic card. The video was probably
> >substandard as well. If someone gave me a PB today, I wouldn't want a
> >single component inside. Although usually overpriced, IBM makes rock
> >solid machines. To take a PB over an IBM is silly.
>
> inflicted proprietary RAM, non-standard slimline cases, built-in VGA,
> 486DXn systems with 0k L2 cache on thier victims. Remember the PS/2,
> with funny connectors galore, and MCA bus with no backward ISA
> compatibility? Remember the PS/1, with hardware PC-DOS 4.0 that
> couldn't run Lemmings because it "wasn't compatible"?
And who can forget the PC jr. with the chicklets
keyboard!
r...@geocities.nospam.com
I say check out what PBUSERS on the web are saying about there machines
Here are some sources where PB owners hang out
News: alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
http://www.pbuser.com/ (this site has a good message base)
Try this page if your computer has the PB640 motherboard
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2094/mypb.html
Send me your Wintune 95 results if you have a packard bell, see this
page for details
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2094/pbspeed.html
I bought a PB about 9 moths ago an I love it so far. I have the PB640
motherboard. This is my first computer and I think the PB is a good one
to learn on, but when the time comes for computer #2 I hope to build my
own. Or I might buy from gateway or micron.
I would only by a PB with the following motherboards, if I were to buy a
PB today I would not buy any motherboard older then the PB680, because I
think those from this one on will support the MMX chip and they will
also support a upto a P200. My motherboard, I was told can only go to
P166MHz.
Good luck
r...@geocities.com
remove NOSPAM from above to reply to me
************************************************************************
ca...@mail.idt.net
r...@geocities.NOSPAM.com wrote:
>
>
God no. Don't buy the Packard Bell. They have the worst customer
service, actually they don't have customer service. You will not get
through their busy signal. And if by some miracle you do, you must
navigate a matrix of menus that almost always leads to a pay service.
Don't do it. The price looks real inviting, but it really is not. They
give a lower grade of proprietary parts and have been known for selling
new PCs with used parts.
osca...@worldnet.att.net
NO TO PACKARD BELL!!!!!!!!
Bought a PB133 last August. Crashed twice. After the last crash my hard
disk had to be reformatted. Instead of going through the frustration of
getting a refund, went in debt for system from another manufacturer.
My son's games won't run on the PB even afte going through tech support
for the software vendors.
CUSTOMER SERVICE IS NON-EXISTENT. Had a problem, sent an e-mail, didn't
get a response for three weeks.
NEVER AGAIN!!
Iggy
ca...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>r...@geocities.NOSPAM.com wrote:
>>
>>
>
>God no. Don't buy the Packard Bell. They have the worst customer
>service, actually they don't have customer service. You will not get
>through their busy signal. And if by some miracle you do, you must
>navigate a matrix of menus that almost always leads to a pay service.
>Don't do it. The price looks real inviting, but it really is not. They
>give a lower grade of proprietary parts and have been known for selling
>new PCs with used parts.
Bought one, worked fine the first day. The second day the color went
in the monitor. Took monitor back and shop hooked up to another
system. It was fine, needless to say I returned the entire system
then and there!
Bill
> NO TO PACKARD BELL!!!!!!!!
> Bought a PB133 last August. Crashed twice. After the last crash my hard
> disk had to be reformatted. Instead of going through the frustration of
> getting a refund, went in debt for system from another manufacturer.
> My son's games won't run on the PB even afte going through tech support
> for the software vendors.
> CUSTOMER SERVICE IS NON-EXISTENT. Had a problem, sent an e-mail, didn't
> get a response for three weeks.
I've actually had quite the opposite experience with PB. I was given an
older PB desktop PC that was missing some parts. I sent an email to PB
requesting some assistance, within a week I received a response that
answered all my questions. This is on a 3 year old PC, with no service
contract. I also downloaded some needed files from their web site, including
a new BIOS revision. IMO, pretty goood support for an obsolete PC.
They answered questions on motherboard straps, CDROM type, accessing BIOS
settings, adding/disabling modems and processor and BIOS upgrades.
Good Luck!
Mouradian
Instead if your looking for a good quality computer for a fair price, I
suggest a Dell or a micron.
Charles Prichard
I just LOVE simple questions!
NO, No, no, HELL NO!
--
Charles Prichard, Maitland FL
pric...@worldnet.att.net
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."
fishman
Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
quality monitor, etc.
Kalypso
fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
Ken Conlon
Peter Szymonik
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:42:50 GMT, tec...@mindspring.com (Kalypso)
wrote:
Packard Bells are "throw away" computers designed for the mass market
and uneducated buyers, which is why you see them sold in the same
stores that sell vacuum cleaners and dryers. They are designed to
keep you coming back to the store every 2-3 years to buy a new PC.
Buyer beware.
Peter T. Szymonik
xo...@msn.com
...change is constant...
pamorr
They are very consistent in getting bad ratings from the computer
magazines. Not doubt there are some good ones, but their customer support
may not be very good.
Andrew Carroll
I've had a Packard Bell for over a year and haven't had one siingle
problem in that time. Everything works fine and I'm very happy with it.
Two criticisms though :-
1) Mine is a Pentium system with a Socket 5 but where's the Level 2
cache ????? Non-existent that's where !
2) The motherboard uses a riser card fot the expansion slots so the
slots on the case are horizontal. This makes upgrading the motherboard
in future more difficult.
Apart from that no major upsets.
al...@hal-pc.org
OK, let me get this straight. You have got a computer with a pizza
box case and no L2 cache and you have "no major upsets"? Your
last computer must have exploded the minute you powered up for
you to be satisfied with your present system.
The lack of L2 will make your system run MUCH slower than it could
if PB didn't cut corners and while others may install a new cpu or a
new cpu and motherboard to upgrade, you will need to add a case as
well (as well as any other components that PB chose to integrate into
the motherboard (read "screw the customer"...ie you)
Allen
Old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated
and studied so we can figure out what nutrients they have that
we can extract for our personal use... Homer Simpson
Reply to: al...@hal-pc.org
Mouradian
a packard bell p100 and it turned my head blue! ;)
I mean, it looked like a whole bunch of circuit boards just slapped
together. It would be a major pain in the rear to upgrade it because
theres no room inside the tower! Plus it was a pain in the rear to just
take the case off! I had to take off 12 screws! then I had to slide off
4 panels! With my HP computer all you got to do is slide the case off
and thats it!
RTG
Andrew Carroll wrote:
>
> I've had a Packard Bell for over a year and haven't had one siingle
> problem in that time. Everything works fine and I'm very happy with it.
>
> Two criticisms though :-
>
> 1) Mine is a Pentium system with a Socket 5 but where's the Level 2
> cache ????? Non-existent that's where !
> 2) The motherboard uses a riser card fot the expansion slots so the
> slots on the case are horizontal. This makes upgrading the motherboard
> in future more difficult.
>
> Apart from that no major upsets.
I have had mine for 9 monthes and no probles yet. I made a web page
about my PB computer. Check it out
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2094/mypb.html
I did add a L2 cache and it is a must. I don't know how they could
leave this important part out of the computer. I have Wintune 95 results
to prove my point, they can be down loaded from
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2094/pbspeed.html#Results
Thanks
RTG
Louis
you also get a computer that has been rated as the worst in many magazined
surveys in terms of support, performance, quality, etc.
fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
: Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
nah....nothing wronng with it at all.. EXCEPT for a cheap
motherboard....why, a cheap motherboard is just fine! a motherboard has NO
effect whatsoever on a system... (end sarcasm)
sigh.....
i suppose the person above is a low tech kinda guy!
: You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
: quality monitor, etc.
--
=======================================================================
email: lo...@primenet.com
Lou
all reviews i have seen show packard bell at bottom of the list.
lou
Kalypso <tec...@mindspring.com> wrote:
: fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
: >Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
: >You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
: >quality monitor, etc.
: Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
: good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
--
=======================================================================
email: lo...@primenet.com
MeME!
Larry <l.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<3304CD...@worldnet.att.net>...
> Mark D Morris wrote:
> >
> > Mark
[... Crap Deleted ...]
>
>
> What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
> upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
> have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
> support I got from the PB techs. No one in their right mind would
> suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
>
>
>
One note of advice. I would rather take the word of technicians who have
worked with a variety of computers and have something to compare it to. I
myself have had multiple cases where the problem is.. It's just a Packard
Bell! Of course, as always, if you know what you are buying and are
satisfied with it, then go for it! But, I assure you that these
testimonials from happy satisfied PB customers are not the norm.
Todd Barlow
Lightspeed Net, Inc.
Support Supervisor/ Lead Technican
Mouradian
to puke. Trust me, with Packard Bell, you really don't know what your
getting. I would compare Packard Bell to a Pinto!
Tony Powell
> I have worked on the guts of a Packard Bell before and it made me want
> to puke. Trust me, with Packard Bell, you really don't know what your
> getting. I would compare Packard Bell to a Pinto!
>
I'd go with that one.
I think Stevie Wonder designed the cases on some of their machines.
Tony.
rasputin
Mouradian <kri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>MeME! wrote:
>>
>> Larry <l.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
>> <3304CD...@worldnet.att.net>...
>> > Mark D Morris wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Mark
>>
>> [... Crap Deleted ...]
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > What a bunch of hogwash. I have had a PB for many years. Have
>> > upgraded RAM, video, soundcard, modem, hard drive and floppies. I
>> > have even upgraded the CPU. Ive been very pleased with my PB and the
>> > support I got from the PB techs. No one in their right mind would
>> > suggest to their enemy an IBM machine.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> One note of advice. I would rather take the word of technicians who have
>> worked with a variety of computers and have something to compare it to. I
>> myself have had multiple cases where the problem is.. It's just a Packard
>> Bell! Of course, as always, if you know what you are buying and are
>> satisfied with it, then go for it! But, I assure you that these
>> testimonials from happy satisfied PB customers are not the norm.
>>
>> Todd Barlow
>> Lightspeed Net, Inc.
>> Support Supervisor/ Lead Technican
>I have worked on the guts of a Packard Bell before and it made me want
>to puke. Trust me, with Packard Bell, you really don't know what your
>getting. I would compare Packard Bell to a Pinto!
Hey man, I loved my pinto!
"The Mad Monk"
aardvark desktop
BUY A PACKARD BELL!!! When it breaks or needs an upgrade, contact me! I
need the work. Locally, I encourage people to buy PB's. Preferably a
refurbished one! (wait, aren't they all refurbished?) You buy a Packard
Bell, a serviceman gets to eat. Do it for the sake of your local
economy! :-)
Mouradian
ha ha ha ha, if he contacts you, your eyes are going to fill with mega
dollars! :)
William Gallant
NO!!! if you have ANY common sense don't buy a pac-bell. the pac means it
will eat you up. I have had pac-bells and find it easier to scratch build
at a lower price with the ability to upgrade without worrying about the
propietary motherboard requirements. Go buy a clone, a gateway, an ibm,
or dell, or acer, just don't touch a pac-bell even if you have to scratch
build.
aardvark desktop
That's why I love Packard Bell. Everyone who buys one is a potential
customer!
Rob Clark
The down side to this is then you have to WORK on that piece of crap!
Please note the following sig is spammers bot bait
Hope you spammers like these email addresses.
postm...@127.0.0.1
ab...@127.0.0.1
sup...@127.0.0.1
sa...@127.0.0.1
Please strip the ! from the end of my reply-to address.
Allynn Wilkinson
Ahh... I *love* all the Packard Hell bashing that goes on! It does my
heart good to see so many 'satisfied' Hell customers relating all their
happy stories of friendly service and easy upgrades!
No one should buy a PB... but most people do..... <sigh>
Allynn
"A Valued Packard Bell Customer"
Karl Gibbs
About 1 year ago I was reading a PC magazine and they were having a
comparison and posting a top ten list of some computer type. They stated
that they refused to test or include Packard Bell because it ranked so
low on their reader responses for quality and customer support.
regards,
karl
Kalypso
fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
>Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
>You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
>quality monitor, etc.
Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
Kalypso©
(remove the © from
address prior to e-mailing)
Dean
I agree. IMHO packard bell is horrible. But their moniters are
great. Good features, and I like the speakers.
-Dean
On Sat, 05 Jul 1997 05:23:51 GMT, techpro©@mindspring.com (Kalypso)
wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------
|Dean |ri...@tc.umn.edu |
|http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g197/ricks |
|________________________________________________________________|
|A smile is a curve that can set a lot of things straight. |
------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney Dunning
Dean wrote:
>
> I agree. IMHO packard bell is horrible. But their moniters are
> great. Good features, and I like the speakers.
I don't own a P-B moniter, but I've gotten consistent reports from
friends that their moniters are okay for the money.
IMO, the main problem with P-B is their customer support. It's simply
next to impossible to get past the busy signal. At any rate, P-B'a niche
seems to be first-time computer buyers at Office Depot, Best Buy, etc. I
would like to see how many *repeat* buyers P-B has. Not very many, I
bet.
--
Rodney Dunning
e-mail: dunn...@wfu.edu
URL: http://www.wfu.edu/~dunnirb4
Voice: 910.759.4977 or 910.759.4980
Fax: 910.759.6142
David Corn
Given that PB probably uses dead-standard Intel LX-style motherboards
in their systems (and Intel VX boards too, I noticed) couldn't you
simply add your own PB Cache to the unit? Does it have a connector
clip for a cache COAST module?
On Wed, 09 Jul 1997 17:24:56 GMT, ri...@tc.umn.edu (Dean) wrote:
>>>Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
>>>You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
>>>quality monitor, etc.
>>
>>Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
>>good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
>>
>>
>> Kalypso©
>>(remove the © from
>>address prior to e-mailing)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>|Dean |ri...@tc.umn.edu |
>|http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g197/ricks |
>|________________________________________________________________|
>|A smile is a curve that can set a lot of things straight. |
>------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________
Reachable at: 281-549-3977 Nights
Please quote in all replies
Note my e-mail address: dc...@pdq.net
David Corn
On Wed, 09 Jul 1997 21:10:17 -0400, Rodney Dunning <dunn...@wfu.edu>
wrote:
>Dean wrote:
>> I agree. IMHO packard bell is horrible. But their moniters are
>> great. Good features, and I like the speakers.
>I don't own a P-B moniter, but I've gotten consistent reports from
>friends that their moniters are okay for the money.
>IMO, the main problem with P-B is their customer support. It's simply
>next to impossible to get past the busy signal. At any rate, P-B'a niche
>seems to be first-time computer buyers at Office Depot, Best Buy, etc. I
>would like to see how many *repeat* buyers P-B has. Not very many, I
>bet.
I have bought or recommended 3 PBs. The first was a P60 that I got
for $1000, used. It included 24M of RAM, 410M HD, 2X CD, Win95, and
Office95, as well as a cheap PB monitor. It was an excellent deal -
this was when a P90 was a 'hot' system. My grandmother is using it
now for a home machine. She'll never outrun the thing, so it's
perfect for her. I lost $200 on the deal, but kept 16M of the RAM and
Office 95. Not half bad.
My mother has a Pentium 120 for work and a new Pentium 133 (the D1000)
at home. The P120 replaced a 486/33 she had at work; the P133
replaced a PowerMac 6100/60 she had at home. Both were big, big
improvements. She paid about $1000 for the P120 alone, and $800 for
the P133 alone, new. Both should last for years and service her needs
for at least 2-3 years, at which time she'll sell them - she might
lose $500 on the first one and $300 on the second in 2 years time.
That's not bad at all.
She doesn't have the technical skill (and I don't have the time, or
desire) to support her in putting together a clone system. Sure, I
can easily find Cyrix P200+ systems (entire *systems*) for $700-800,
but that's unsupportable - if something goes wrong, I'm liable for
fixing it; that's unacceptable. This way, PB handles it (even if the
answer is simply "Insert the system CD and watch as it formats your HD
and reinstalls the entire Win95 system"), they'll warranty it for a
year, and they'll fix it if it breaks - for the first 90 days onsite.
Not half bad.
Some of you need to re-examine buyers' priorities. Top speed isn't
always at the top of their list. For $799, the PB D1000 isn't a bad
deal at all for the Pentium 133. Granted, it's unexpandable, but it's
got a decent ATI video card (a last-generation Mach64), decent speed,
a decent hard drive, a Triton 430VX motherboard, and a good assortment
of software with it, preloaded. No setup time - just take it out of
the box and go. That's what everyone but the computer-people wants.
Kronos
> Some of you need to re-examine buyers' priorities. Top speed isn't
> always at the top of their list. For $799, the PB D1000 isn't a bad
> deal at all for the Pentium 133. Granted, it's unexpandable, but it's
> got a decent ATI video card (a last-generation Mach64), decent speed,
> a decent hard drive, a Triton 430VX motherboard, and a good assortment
> of software with it, preloaded. No setup time - just take it out of
> the box and go. That's what everyone but the computer-people wants.
in this thread is the spotty quality of Packard Bell computers. If
people need speed as a top priority, Packard Bell does make 200mmx and
233mmx models. The problem is not it's unexpandability, but the fact
that many PB's have faulty parts or parts that die very quickly. Hey,
if every PB is bad, then the company wouldn't be around. There will be
perfectly fine PB's around. It's like a Ford Pinto. There are some
perfectly fine Pinto's out there that have been running for years (my
dad was loyal to his '78 Pinto, and it lasted for almost 20 years).
They do what they need to do. However, it has a bad rep because a lot
of them are built poorly, and some are pieces of junk.
Of course, computer-people and non-computer-people all want to take the
computer out of the box and have it work. However, it seems that more
Packard Bell computers DON'T work out of the box than other companies.
It's great that you have 3 PB's and they work fine. But there are a lot
of PB owners that haven't had the success that you've had.
Gareth Jones
techpro咖mindspring.com (Kalypso) wrote:
>fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
>
>>Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
>>You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
>>quality monitor, etc.
>
>Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
>good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
The main problem with PB machines IMO is that they are extremely
difficult to upgrade. I get lots of calls from people who want to put
in a better CPU, but I almost always find that a machine with a P100
processor will have a Socket 5 motherboard, so a CPU upgrade involves
putting in another motherboard. Replacing the motherboard is murder,
because they don't use standard AT style boards - they use a
proprietry solution with a riser on it. So to change the motherboard,
you have to change the whole case.
I'm not sure why they use none standard forms, presumably it must be
cheaper for them...it can't be to lock customers in to using PB
upgrades - because I don't know anyone who has ever gone back to
them..
Gareth Jones
Kronos
David Corn wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:52:43 -0700, Kronos <hw...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >> Some of you need to re-examine buyers' priorities. Top speed isn't
> >> always at the top of their list. For $799, the PB D1000 isn't a bad
> >> deal at all for the Pentium 133. Granted, it's unexpandable, but it's
> >> got a decent ATI video card (a last-generation Mach64), decent speed,
> >> a decent hard drive, a Triton 430VX motherboard, and a good assortment
> >> of software with it, preloaded. No setup time - just take it out of
> >> the box and go. That's what everyone but the computer-people wants.
>
> > I think you are missing the point. The point people are trying to make
> >in this thread is the spotty quality of Packard Bell computers. If
> >people need speed as a top priority, Packard Bell does make 200mmx and
> >233mmx models. The problem is not it's unexpandability, but the fact
>
> competition; that was what I hoped to defuse by raising that point.
>
> >that many PB's have faulty parts or parts that die very quickly. Hey,
>
> 2 years. The P60 outlasted the PowerMac 6100 that the P133 replaced.
>
> >if every PB is bad, then the company wouldn't be around. There will be
> >perfectly fine PB's around. It's like a Ford Pinto. There are some
> >perfectly fine Pinto's out there that have been running for years (my
> >dad was loyal to his '78 Pinto, and it lasted for almost 20 years).
> >They do what they need to do. However, it has a bad rep because a lot
> >of them are built poorly, and some are pieces of junk.
>
> market they're a strong #1 in sales...and given that they dwarf some
> other major brand names, wouldn't that mean we'd expect to see more
> complaints?
>
> > Of course, computer-people and non-computer-people all want to take the
> >computer out of the box and have it work. However, it seems that more
> >Packard Bell computers DON'T work out of the box than other companies.
>
>
> >It's great that you have 3 PB's and they work fine. But there are a lot
> >of PB owners that haven't had the success that you've had.
>
> *owned* a recent PB. Is that fair, either?
Yeah, well, life ain't fair, is it now? Hey, but, you have your
opinion, I have mine.
Time to end this thread...
David Corn
Evidence?
Ray
I would disagree about the diffaculty to upgrade my PB 640 motherboard
has been easy for the for the few upgrades I have done.
as for people using replacement PB parts in the PB computer. No one
ever buys PB replacemnts, the motherboard for exmple to replace with a
newer model (I have heard) can cost upwards of $500, it is cheaper to
buy a case and a real motherboard.
You should see there newest model, it is not upgradble at all. I think
PB stratagy is to make the computer be obsolete as fast as possible. I
think itel does this as well. Why else do they change sockets every
year, and now have one to the slot technology. they want to sell more
not let us upgrade the old.
Click here for information on Packard Bell D100 a disposable computer
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/8774/770.html
I am glad to see AMD and Cyrix use the socket 7 for 686 processors, and
I am really looking forward to the Evergreen MxPro (which is a K6 with
some time of BIOS) that will give some life to aging systems and at a
lower price then intel will chard for there processors. From what I was
told PB system will not support non intel chips, this means PB computers
need the bios upgrade.
Click here for information about the MxPro
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/8774/mxpro.html
I have have no real trouble with my PB computer and I may buy one
again. My motherboard (a PB 640) is one of the better ones, though it
could have a better video chip. I would buy a PB 680 motherboard if it
had 256K L2 cache on board, but I would stay away from the PB 770 which
is not upgradable.
I don't know why PB (or other computer manufactures) would make pentium
systems without L2 cache. It makes a big difference and the cost was
not real high. I have plenty of benchmark tests to prove this.
But, I would say if you want a PB computer do your home work and buy one
that fits your needs. I have found that most people I talk to like the
PB computer they bought.
Later
Ray
r...@geocities.com
Visit Ray's PB Computer Site
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/8774/index.html
Ray
David Corn wrote:
>
> Given that PB probably uses dead-standard Intel LX-style motherboards
> in their systems (and Intel VX boards too, I noticed) couldn't you
> simply add your own PB Cache to the unit? Does it have a connector
> clip for a cache COAST module?
Yes infact the Pb 640 motherboard has a CELP Socket for L2 cache. Now
PB tell it's customers that it will take up to 256k COAST modules, but
us PB owners have discovered that a 512K L2 COAST module will work just
as well, no matter what Packard Bell says.
Ray
From all the information I have heard the PB 680 Motherboard can not be
upgragded to 256K L2 Cache.
This motherboard either comes with the L2 cache or it does not.
Ray
Do you know if PB is going to make a computer with the slot One and the
Pentium II in it?
As far as the K6 it may work on later PB MMX motherboard that support
MMX (680)but I was told by evrgreen that it is unlikely to work on my PB
640. The 640 according to them lacks the BIOS and Voltage setting for a
K6.
What I would really like to do is to buy a motherboard with the new AMD
chipset and the K6 processor and transfer all my PB stuff over to the
new motherboard, but unfortunatly I will not be upgrading my computer
for a a while.
Rod Proctor
>The main problem with PB machines IMO is that they are extremely
>difficult to upgrade. I get lots of calls from people who want to put
>in a better CPU, but I almost always find that a machine with a P100
>processor will have a Socket 5 motherboard, so a CPU upgrade involves
>putting in another motherboard. Replacing the motherboard is murder,
>because they don't use standard AT style boards - they use a
>proprietry solution with a riser on it. So to change the motherboard,
>you have to change the whole case.
>
>I'm not sure why they use none standard forms, presumably it must be
>cheaper for them...it can't be to lock customers in to using PB
>upgrades - because I don't know anyone who has ever gone back to
>them..
>
>Gareth Jones
>
Amen!
I've gone through upgrade hell for three years. Finally just got mostly new
stuff and gutted the old machine for what I could salvage (not much --
monitor, floppy drives, second HD as slave, and sound card -- oh, and the
mouse still works!).
The difficulty in upgrading has been my biggest complaint ever since I first
tried to put in a new modem and disable the on-the-mobo crap that came with
the machine. It got worse when I first tried to install Win95, only to
discover that the video chips (soldered on the mobo, natch!) and video drivers
gagged. And of course, the folks who provided PB with the video chips and
drivers had by then gone out of business. This one had tech folks at both PB
and Microsoft baffled! And it all went downhill from there. Old BIOS soldered
on the mobo hated new HD, etc., etc., etc.
But the monitor's been great!
Rod Proctor
soo...@gate.net
Rod Proctor
In article <33c6fa7c...@news2.lightlink.com>, e...@lightlink.com wrote:
>Sounds like the 600 motherboard i had in my P-100. You can see where
>the cache memory was supposed to be soldered on to the board but PB
>deemed this to be an "extra". I ended up doing what I'd recommend for
>anyone, buying a new tower case and new motherboard and gutting that
>thing for it's usable parts. That's the only sure way of upgrading a
>PB machine in my opinion.
>>
This is exactly what I ended up doing. Monitor, floppy drives and sound card
work great. Everything else is history; packed away until I can donate it all
to a computer museum 15 years from now. 'Cause I damn sure can't find a buyer.
And I wouldn't want to wish it on some poor school kids. Actually ... maybe I
should think about donating it ...
Rod Proctor
soo...@gate.net
Ray A. Hill
>>
>> The main problem with PB machines IMO is that they are extremely
>> difficult to upgrade. I get lots of calls from people who want to put
>> in a better CPU, but I almost always find that a machine with a P100
>> processor will have a Socket 5 motherboard, so a CPU upgrade involves
>> putting in another motherboard. Replacing the motherboard is murder,
>> because they don't use standard AT style boards - they use a
>> proprietry solution with a riser on it. So to change the motherboard,
>> you have to change the whole case.
>>
>> I'm not sure why they use none standard forms, presumably it must be
>> cheaper for them...it can't be to lock customers in to using PB
>> upgrades - because I don't know anyone who has ever gone back to
>> them..
>>
>> Gareth Jones
>
<snip>
As a computer technician, about 80% of the upgrades we do are on Packard
Bells. I can voush, PB's are NOT difficult to upgrade.
>as for people using replacement PB parts in the PB computer. No one
>ever buys PB replacemnts, the motherboard for exmple to replace with a
>newer model (I have heard) can cost upwards of $500, it is cheaper to
>buy a case and a real motherboard.
>
Again, thats correct. Why would anyone buy replacement parts when it cost
almost the same a s a new unit on the shelf. Plus, unless it has changed,
PB will only sell you the motherboard that was originally in your case.
>You should see there newest model, it is not upgradble at all. I think
>PB stratagy is to make the computer be obsolete as fast as possible. I
>think itel does this as well. Why else do they change sockets every
>year, and now have one to the slot technology. they want to sell more
>not let us upgrade the old.
>Click here for information on Packard Bell D100 a disposable computer
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/8774/770.html
>
The D1000 was pretty much monkey see, monkey do. That is, compaq did it, and
PB didn't wanit Compaq to gain market share. Plus, the D1000 is a system
designed to infiltrate businesses as Internet and office terminals.
Why people would buy these I don't know. They should be SHOT!!! :)
Especially when you can get a comperable PB tower for the same price.
>I am glad to see AMD and Cyrix use the socket 7 for 686 processors, and
>I am really looking forward to the Evergreen MxPro (which is a K6 with
>some time of BIOS) that will give some life to aging systems and at a
>lower price then intel will chard for there processors. From what I was
>told PB system will not support non intel chips, this means PB computers
>need the bios upgrade.
This is were the confusion starts. This is a result of POOR technical training
BUY PB. The actual phrase is....(should be) :)
The use of NON-Intel processors are NOT "guaranteed" to work with Packard Bell
systems.
But, the AMD K5's work great on PB systems as long as you use the interposer.
Believe it or not, I've actually had more problems installing an Itel
overdrive than a AMD or Cyrix overdrive.
I haven't heard an "official" word, but since AMD's K6 is nearly an Intel
replica, PB will be providing an BIOS update to support K6 NON-Overdrive.
I say Intel replica because the AMD chips, unlike cyrix give off an Intel
signature.
>I have have no real trouble with my PB computer and I may buy one
>again. My motherboard (a PB 640) is one of the better ones, though it
>could have a better video chip. I would buy a PB 680 motherboard if it
>had 256K L2 cache on board, but I would stay away from the PB 770 which
>is not upgradable.
>
>I don't know why PB (or other computer manufactures) would make pentium
>systems without L2 cache. It makes a big difference and the cost was
>not real high. I have plenty of benchmark tests to prove this.
>
>But, I would say if you want a PB computer do your home work and buy one
>that fits your needs. I have found that most people I talk to like the
>PB computer they bought.
>
The next Platinum line is suppose to use ATI's Rage II 3D chip. Currently, the
D1000 is using ATI's Mach 64 video chip (NON 3D). This would make a HUGE
improvement to the Packard Bell line.
As far as the 256K L2, unless they (PB) changes their minds, the next line
will have 256K L2, while the ALL but 2 Platinum lines will have 512K L2.
The use of 512K L2 on the Platinum series is to combat Acer and the newer
high end Compaq presario models. BOUT TIME PB. I hope you stick to the plans!
This information was provided to me by our stores PB rep.
Tyrone Mixx
I don't believe the 680 can be upgraded from the supplied 16k cache.
If someone knows different, please point me towards the MB location and a chip
supplier :-) I called one shop here in Chicago and asked about COAST
memory, he stated that it's approx 4 inches long. Nothing on the 680 that will
fit that.
- ty
EGK
Sounds like the 600 motherboard i had in my P-100. You can see where
the cache memory was supposed to be soldered on to the board but PB
deemed this to be an "extra". I ended up doing what I'd recommend for
anyone, buying a new tower case and new motherboard and gutting that
thing for it's usable parts. That's the only sure way of upgrading a
PB machine in my opinion.
>
**************************************************************************
There'd be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't
take that as an invitation to walk all over you. - Calvin & Hobbes
**************************************************************************
Kagetora
In article <5q6ouc$ut9$2...@news.one.net>, rh...@one.net (Ray A. Hill) wrote:
#
#>>
#>> The main problem with PB machines IMO is that they are extremely
#>> difficult to upgrade. I get lots of calls from people who want to put
#>> in a better CPU, but I almost always find that a machine with a P100
#>> processor will have a Socket 5 motherboard, so a CPU upgrade involves
#>> putting in another motherboard. Replacing the motherboard is murder,
#>> because they don't use standard AT style boards - they use a
#>> proprietry solution with a riser on it. So to change the motherboard,
#>> you have to change the whole case.
#>>
#>> I'm not sure why they use none standard forms, presumably it must be
#>> cheaper for them...it can't be to lock customers in to using PB
#>> upgrades - because I don't know anyone who has ever gone back to
#>> them..
#
#As a computer technician, about 80% of the upgrades we do are on Packard
#Bells. I can voush, PB's are NOT difficult to upgrade.
Depends all on what you're upgrading. (for the record, my system started out
as a PB5200 P60 and is currently a Kagetora(tm) Supra Express Turbo Dog
Cyrix P200+ [i.e. I built the thing piece by piece, eventually
upgrading every component except for the 3.5 floppy and monitor...and, yes, I
did mark the case as the Kagetora(tm) Supra Express Turbo Dog... ^_^ ]).
Anything that can be done with a PCI or ISA slot is usually not going to be a
problem with any computer. The only real conflict that you may have (which is
a problem I still had when re-installing Win95...until I got my new mobo and
case) is with the on-board video. Despite the fact that your monitor isn't
plugged in to the sucker, Win95 instists it's there and wants to load drivers
for it....that can lead to problems, as ATI drivers (the onboard vid card was
an ATI mach 32) don't run STB products well (I installed a LS128).
Also, thigns to do with hard drives, floppies, and CD-ROMs are easily
done...just like any other computer.
The only problem comes when you want to buy a new chip that isn't compatible
with the board you have. Then you have to buy the new case and
motherboard...as the only other way is going though Packard Bell...and
considering what they charge, you're better off buying the case, mobo, and the
chip. Packard Bell cases and boards are very proprietary. (basically, they
don't really want you to upgrade....they want you to buy a new Packard Bell)
Remember that if you're the type who likes to play with the guts. If you
aren't, and just want to turn it on and play around w/o really knowing how
everything works and really don't want to upgrade (i.e. you are just as happy
to buy a new machine when the new technologies come out), a Packard Bell or
any of the other computers you can get at Best Buy, CompUSA, or Circuit City
will do just fine. (I started out that way, myself...but times [and my
pocketbook] changed)
#>I am glad to see AMD and Cyrix use the socket 7 for 686 processors, and
#>I am really looking forward to the Evergreen MxPro (which is a K6 with
#>some time of BIOS) that will give some life to aging systems and at a
#>lower price then intel will chard for there processors. From what I was
#>told PB system will not support non intel chips, this means PB computers
#>need the bios upgrade.
#
#This is were the confusion starts. This is a result of POOR technical training
#BUY PB. The actual phrase is....(should be) :)
#
#The use of NON-Intel processors are NOT "guaranteed" to work with Packard Bell
#systems.
Because PB doesn't test the other types (AFAIK)...they only use Intel chipsets
as well. That's not to say you can't plug one in and take a shot...but I
probably wouldn't with a company as proprietary as PB has *always* been...and
with a company as proprietary as Intel is becoming. Again, not discouraging
anyone...if you want to try, go ahead...but I do strongly feel that, while you
can upgrade anything else on a PB...when it comes to motherboard issues,
especially with the older versions, you're really better off starting with a
clean, globally-compatible slate than trying to deal with what PB will dish
out.
"Power is in tearing human minds to | Jon Hickman
pieces and putting them together again | Oni Dragon -=={UDIC}==-
in forms of our own choosing." - _1984_ | Kage...@pernet.net
(Note: Because of Sensless Acts of Spamming (SAS), I am forced to
disable the header's e-mail...just use the one on the .sig if you
really want to send me something)
David Corn
On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 02:10:03 GMT, rh...@one.net (Ray A. Hill) wrote:
>As a computer technician, about 80% of the upgrades we do are on Packard
>Bells. I can voush, PB's are NOT difficult to upgrade.
What motherboard form factor do you upgrade them with? Do you need to
special order an Intel LX design or what?
>Again, thats correct. Why would anyone buy replacement parts when it cost
>almost the same a s a new unit on the shelf. Plus, unless it has changed,
>PB will only sell you the motherboard that was originally in your case.
So how do you upgrade it?
>>Click here for information on Packard Bell D100 a disposable computer
>>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/8774/770.html
>The D1000 was pretty much monkey see, monkey do. That is, compaq did it, and
>PB didn't wanit Compaq to gain market share. Plus, the D1000 is a system
>designed to infiltrate businesses as Internet and office terminals.
>Why people would buy these I don't know. They should be SHOT!!! :)
>Especially when you can get a comperable PB tower for the same price.
$799 for a comparable PB tower? I don't think so.
>The next Platinum line is suppose to use ATI's Rage II 3D chip. Currently, the
>D1000 is using ATI's Mach 64 video chip (NON 3D). This would make a HUGE
>improvement to the Packard Bell line.
In that the Mach64 is getting old, sure. It's still a decent chip,
though. I still use a Diamond Stealth 64 in this machine, and it's
still plenty fast; the Mach64 is from that same generation of video
processors.
>As far as the 256K L2, unless they (PB) changes their minds, the next line
>will have 256K L2, while the ALL but 2 Platinum lines will have 512K L2.
>The use of 512K L2 on the Platinum series is to combat Acer and the newer
>high end Compaq presario models. BOUT TIME PB. I hope you stick to the plans!
>This information was provided to me by our stores PB rep.
Can't you simply add a cache if you want to?
Gareth Jones
rh...@one.net (Ray A. Hill) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> The main problem with PB machines IMO is that they are extremely
>>> difficult to upgrade. I get lots of calls from people who want to put
>>> in a better CPU, but I almost always find that a machine with a P100
>>> processor will have a Socket 5 motherboard, so a CPU upgrade involves
>>> putting in another motherboard. Replacing the motherboard is murder,
>>> because they don't use standard AT style boards - they use a
>>> proprietry solution with a riser on it. So to change the motherboard,
>>> you have to change the whole case.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why they use none standard forms, presumably it must be
>>> cheaper for them...it can't be to lock customers in to using PB
>>> upgrades - because I don't know anyone who has ever gone back to
>>> them..
>>>
>>> Gareth Jones
>>
>
><snip>
>
>As a computer technician, about 80% of the upgrades we do are on Packard
>Bells. I can voush, PB's are NOT difficult to upgrade.
What kind of upgrades are you talking about? I am talking principally
about the upgrading from a 486 to a Pentium class machine. this
involves a motherboard change - and most of the PB machines I have
seen won't take an AT style motherboard - the cases don't have enough
room for expansion cards, unless they are mounted horizontally -
parallel with the motherboard.
Gareth Jones
D. Metcalfe
Ray <rtg@geocities#.com> wrote:
I had a PB tech tell me the 680 came three ways ...
- no cache and not upgradable
- 256K L2 and not upgradable
- socket for cache
He also said the socket option has been discontinued.
Dennis Metcalfe
Ray
I don't know. Unless he meant that the socet option was discontinued,
because the 640 motherboard is discontinued. I never heard that the 680
ever has the socket option. But you never know with PB, they always
have more then one story depending on who you are talkin to.
Please remove the # to reply
Ken Mays
No, the fact is that you should buy a computer for what it can do
for you or your family. Basically, office tasks and games, Let's be
honest..those that buy Packard Bell's are buying them for the home.
I'm sure they are in many home offices, but I think Compaq steals the
show in the work place if not Dell/Micron/Gateway.
Since my belief is that PB is for home use, then its up to the consumer
to know what is being bought. Check the specs on the machine. Does it
come with 256K L2 cache? Many machines don't have it. Do you need a 486
or a Pentium-75? Do you care about floating point processing speeds???
Are the PBs RELIABLE?!?!?
They only reason I upgrade is because Microsoft made Windows V3.11
that ran better on a 486, then Windows95 which required at least a
Pentium-75 for most work I do. Programmers are happy with 486 computers
with tons of memory. Hackers like Pentium-II computers with SoundBlaster
AWE64, Voodoo graphics cards, and whatever else. Gamers fall under that
category.
So should you buy a Packard Bell? Yes, if it comes with the items you
think you need (the basic items!!). They are good computers and very
home oriented. Also, pretty cheap since they have all the bad press
surrounding them!!!
Best to build your own computer if anything else.
Ken
SAIC
Ray A. Hill wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The main problem with PB machines IMO is that they are extremely
> >> difficult to upgrade. I get lots of calls from people who want to put
> >> in a better CPU, but I almost always find that a machine with a P100
> >> processor will have a Socket 5 motherboard, so a CPU upgrade involves
> >> putting in another motherboard. Replacing the motherboard is murder,
> >> because they don't use standard AT style boards - they use a
> >> proprietry solution with a riser on it. So to change the motherboard,
> >> you have to change the whole case.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure why they use none standard forms, presumably it must be
> >> cheaper for them...it can't be to lock customers in to using PB
> >> upgrades - because I don't know anyone who has ever gone back to
> >> them..
> >>
> >> Gareth Jones
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> As a computer technician, about 80% of the upgrades we do are on Packard
> Bells. I can voush, PB's are NOT difficult to upgrade.
>
> >as for people using replacement PB parts in the PB computer. No one
> >ever buys PB replacemnts, the motherboard for exmple to replace with a
> >newer model (I have heard) can cost upwards of $500, it is cheaper to
> >buy a case and a real motherboard.
> >
>
> Again, thats correct. Why would anyone buy replacement parts when it cost
> almost the same a s a new unit on the shelf. Plus, unless it has changed,
> PB will only sell you the motherboard that was originally in your case.
>
> >You should see there newest model, it is not upgradble at all. I think
> >PB stratagy is to make the computer be obsolete as fast as possible. I
> >think itel does this as well. Why else do they change sockets every
> >year, and now have one to the slot technology. they want to sell more
> >not let us upgrade the old.
> >Click here for information on Packard Bell D100 a disposable computer
> >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/8774/770.html
> >
>
> The D1000 was pretty much monkey see, monkey do. That is, compaq did it, and
> PB didn't wanit Compaq to gain market share. Plus, the D1000 is a system
> designed to infiltrate businesses as Internet and office terminals.
> Why people would buy these I don't know. They should be SHOT!!! :)
> Especially when you can get a comperable PB tower for the same price.
>
> >I am glad to see AMD and Cyrix use the socket 7 for 686 processors, and
> >I am really looking forward to the Evergreen MxPro (which is a K6 with
> >some time of BIOS) that will give some life to aging systems and at a
> >lower price then intel will chard for there processors. From what I was
> >told PB system will not support non intel chips, this means PB computers
> >need the bios upgrade.
>
> This is were the confusion starts. This is a result of POOR technical training
> BUY PB. The actual phrase is....(should be) :)
>
> The use of NON-Intel processors are NOT "guaranteed" to work with Packard Bell
> systems.
>
> But, the AMD K5's work great on PB systems as long as you use the interposer.
> Believe it or not, I've actually had more problems installing an Itel
> overdrive than a AMD or Cyrix overdrive.
>
> I haven't heard an "official" word, but since AMD's K6 is nearly an Intel
> replica, PB will be providing an BIOS update to support K6 NON-Overdrive.
> I say Intel replica because the AMD chips, unlike cyrix give off an Intel
> signature.
>
> >I have have no real trouble with my PB computer and I may buy one
> >again. My motherboard (a PB 640) is one of the better ones, though it
> >could have a better video chip. I would buy a PB 680 motherboard if it
> >had 256K L2 cache on board, but I would stay away from the PB 770 which
> >is not upgradable.
> >
> >I don't know why PB (or other computer manufactures) would make pentium
> >systems without L2 cache. It makes a big difference and the cost was
> >not real high. I have plenty of benchmark tests to prove this.
> >
> >But, I would say if you want a PB computer do your home work and buy one
> >that fits your needs. I have found that most people I talk to like the
> >PB computer they bought.
> >
>
> The next Platinum line is suppose to use ATI's Rage II 3D chip. Currently, the
> D1000 is using ATI's Mach 64 video chip (NON 3D). This would make a HUGE
> improvement to the Packard Bell line.
>
L Morrison/D Pennell
How about finding an on-hands tech school to donate it to?
linda
--
lmm...@ibm.net
** Remove the 7 for e-mail replies!! **
Patrick Stanley
techpro©@mindspring.com (Kalypso) wrote:
>fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
>
>>Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
>>You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
>>quality monitor, etc.
>
>Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
>good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
>
>
> Kalypso©
>(remove the © from
>address prior to e-mailing)
Right. Good monitor, bad computer.
//Remove the * from *sta...@ntplx.net to email me!//
Will Dormann
>I have bought or recommended 3 PBs. The first was a P60 that I got
>for $1000, used. It included 24M of RAM, 410M HD, 2X CD, Win95, and
>Office95, as well as a cheap PB monitor. It was an excellent deal -
>this was when a P90 was a 'hot' system. My grandmother is using it
Dear God! How can you sleep at night!?!
Ack!
Bob Smith
On Wed, 09 Jul 1997 17:24:56 GMT, ri...@tc.umn.edu (Dean) wrote:
packard bell is a collection of hand me down parts that no one else
wants to use or would dare use.
the quality sucks, the tech support (if you can call it that) is
non-existant, and if you really get to a person, they give you a warm
feeling, but no real help, and if you have a problem with hardware,
pack your lunch beause you will get the biggest run-a-round getting
the defective part replaced!!
I have quite a few good customers NOW because of packard bell, i've
taken there systems, and stacked them in the corner and built a better
system with less money,
did you ever see a packard bell TV work for a long time, there
computers don't either,
pay your money, take your chance, but be warned!!
bob smith
Robert Smith Consulting
>I agree. IMHO packard bell is horrible. But their moniters are
>great. Good features, and I like the speakers.
>
>-Dean
>
>
>On Sat, 05 Jul 1997 05:23:51 GMT, techpro©@mindspring.com (Kalypso)
>wrote:
>
>>fishman <fis...@ktb.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Nothing wrong with Packard Hell. You get what you pay.
>>>You save few dollars but get a cheapy motherboard without cache, low
>>>quality monitor, etc.
>>
>>Actually their monitors are the only good thing they make. I've seen
>>good reviews, bought one and it has been excellent!
>>
>>
>> Kalypso©
>>(remove the © from
>>address prior to e-mailing)
>
Mark E. Nikl
I may be one of the lucky ones as far as PB goes. In 1994 I puchased a
PB-440A system. It had 4mb ram, 3.5 1.44, 5.25 1.22 341mb seagate and
Cirrus logic on board video. Only thing ever failed was the 3.5 FD
which I replaced easily. I have since added NEC 8x CD Rom, Kingston
tirbo 133, and the microfirmware bios upgrade. The original sx2-50
intell was too slow. My system is fast enough for me considering a 486
system. I can upgrade my HD to 8 gig if necessary with the new bios.
Imay be lucky, but I have been happy with my PB.I also added an extra
12 mb ram.
Mark
Robin de Gouveia
Anyone wanting to buy a packard bell should first check out the below :
Joseph Hsiao
In article <33CF86...@NOSPAMavery.med.virginia.edu>,
Matt <md...@NOSPAMavery.med.virginia.edu> wrote:
>OK, folks out there who's knocking PB, have you owned them or are you
>just joining in flogging them for the fun of it or because it's
>fashionable? Many Pack-Bell users are not folks who go to newsgroups,
>so they're not here to defend their product choice.
most people here i think knock PB because of PB's usage of second hand
parts in their "brand new machines." not sure if it is actually true and
has been documents, but if so, this may lead to the high rate of problems
among PBs.
moreover, one reason i suspect PB problems are numerous is because of the
sheer number of PBs sold. there are number one in sales in home
computing uses, according to BusinessWeek. what i don't know is the rate
of problems among those sold. so i'm just prematurely concluding that PBs
have lots of problems because lots are sold and the chances of a failure
increase.
>In many respects they are proprietary and crippled to changes. They are
>not a model for the interchangable parts concept that created the
>Industrial Revolution. They are not meant for power users. They are
>affordable computers meant for people who don't do their own computer
>work and who don't have continually increasing hardware demands.
when i got a PB 386sx-20 with 2 MB RAM and a 40 Meg HD with a 512K video
card for $1200 back in 1990 or 89, i was a computer idiot. all i wanted
was to write my high school papers and play sim city. had no idea what a
modem actually did, netscape didn't even exist back then, and my apple II
computer still was running ok. :p the PB was perfect. in fact, the thing
still works after all these years (unlike my gateway monitor which died
after 3 1/2 years).
but now, i have gained a bit of knowledge in hardware accessories and
software (not a programmer, though). i felt that building my own system
gave me more freedom and options than a PB. it was a headache at times and
i sometimes wished that i just bought a complete system, but now, i've
been able to add new hardware easily, something which might not have been
possible with PBs (i.e. new motherboards).
>I have had less trouble with them than with many of the fleet computers
>I've dealt with. If they were not reliable consumer products, they
>would not have remained a staple in the consumer computer retail market.
PBs are good computers for the average computer user and even some advance
users might find them useful as well. however, they are mostly sold in
places like Best Buy and CompUSA, where they tend to rip people off, most
intermediate and advance users head to smaller speciality
warehouses/stores where they can build a computer for much less. maybe
that's why some may think PBs are rip offs.
Matt
OK, folks out there who's knocking PB, have you owned them or are you
just joining in flogging them for the fun of it or because it's
fashionable? Many Pack-Bell users are not folks who go to newsgroups,
so they're not here to defend their product choice.
In many respects they are proprietary and crippled to changes. They are
not a model for the interchangable parts concept that created the
Industrial Revolution. They are not meant for power users. They are
affordable computers meant for people who don't do their own computer
work and who don't have continually increasing hardware demands.
I have owned 2. These have been totally reliable machines for 4 years
and and 2 years respectively. I blew out a motherboard on one when I
hooked up a peripheral, but PB replaced it for free including labor
within 1 week.
Douglas Heinsdorf
Matt <md...@NOSPAMavery.med.virginia.edu> wrote:
>OK, folks out there who's knocking PB, have you owned them or are you
>just joining in flogging them for the fun of it or because it's
>fashionable? Many Pack-Bell users are not folks who go to newsgroups,
>so they're not here to defend their product choice.
It is not only fun and fashionable, it is real! They consistantly
rank at the bottom of the big vendor list in terms of tech support and
product quality. At our school district we have about 15 of them, all
purchased within the last 2 years. I find thier user interface neato
for beginners, and all except for one have run flawlessly. Now the one
that broke, the tech support messed it up for the rest that ran fine.
We have just as many or more Microns, plus over 900 pure clones.
Micron, and the clone systems did/do have more problems overall
but tech support and turnaround times on RMA's (return material
authorization) make the difference. If you have problems with your
PB, well you may be bumming out hard.
ABOLUTELY you cannot speak for who is or is not on the newsgroups.
Especially when those PacBell like all new PC's aimed at the general
public are armed and ready to go online with ISP or online service.
But you may be correct, maybe all pacbell users sit and play that
amazingly awesome game called Solitaire
>In many respects they are proprietary and crippled to changes. They are
>not a model for the interchangable parts concept that created the
>Industrial Revolution.
Yeah, whatever????
> They are not meant for power users. They are
>affordable computers meant for people who don't do their own computer
>work and who don't have continually increasing hardware demands.
Ahem, Uh-huh. The level of usage is dependant on the User, and as far
as I know, if a machine has as little as a dos prompt you can get
pretty powerful with it. This statement of yours is very humourous.
>I have owned 2. These have been totally reliable machines for 4 years
>and and 2 years respectively. I blew out a motherboard on one when I
>hooked up a peripheral, but PB replaced it for free including labor
>within 1 week.
That wouldnt be TOTALLY reliable now, would it?
At you door, done and gone in one week. How many hours and how many
layers layers of phone support you need to go thru. You got lucky.
>I have had less trouble with them than with many of the fleet computers
>I've dealt with. If they were not reliable consumer products, they
>would not have remained a staple in the consumer computer retail market.
GOOD, you keep on buying these computers, plus you preach the good
word about them to anyone who will listen, and the cognescenti will
reap the benefits of our favored component brands having to keep
prices low in order to compete. Keep on buying!!
Douglas N. Heinsdorf
Computer Specialist II, Senior Electronics Technician.
Micro System Diagnostics Inc. System Diagnosis & Configuration.
Crane School District #13. Network/ Workstation Construction & Support.
m...@primenet.com, dhei...@crane.apscc.k12.az.us, dhein...@juno.com
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/owner/msd.html
David Corn
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:19:48 GMT, wdor...@cis.ysu.edu (Will Dormann)
wrote:
Perhaps you can tell me what's wrong with them, then. They all work
perfectly, and I've had no complaints from anyone involved. They were
very, very inexpensive and they do what they were designed to do (run
Win95) perfectly.
IetsGoMETS
i own a packard bell and i have had one problem with it.... my only gripe
is that there is no chance for me to upgrade. i wanted to buy a new
motherboard and chip but due to packard bells inverted motherboard it is
impossible. the parts inside are shit :)
Patrick Stanley
m...@primenet.com (Douglas Heinsdorf) wrote:
>Matt <md...@NOSPAMavery.med.virginia.edu> wrote:
>
>>OK, folks out there who's knocking PB, have you owned them or are you
>>just joining in flogging them for the fun of it or because it's
>>fashionable? Many Pack-Bell users are not folks who go to newsgroups,
>>so they're not here to defend their product choice.
I owned a Packard Bell and I hated it. Every component was integrated
onto the motherboard and it was impossible to upgrade. Tech support
at Packard Bell is TERRIBLE! Tech support staff are hardly qualified
for their jobs from my experiences. Don't buy Packard Bell, you can
get a better computer for the same price elsewhere.
Pat Stanley
bruce
I agree i would never buy a packard bell again but dont blame it on
support. ive had moderate success with them..........but whos support is
good. ive never met them.the answer is to buy a complete system from a
reliable dealer.[not a computer city] buy a 4 yr warrenty and make sure
they will handle all problems .pay a little extra . you get what you pay
for , ALWAYS
any one want to buy my P.B.
cheap
D. Metcalfe
bruce <clo...@trib.infi.net> wrote:
>any one want to buy my P.B. cheap
What is it, how cheap and where is it?
JAKE
Patrick Stanley <*sta...@ntplx.net> wrote in article
<33d18d19...@news.ntplx.net>...
>I owned a Packard Bell and I hated it. Every component was integrated onto
the motherboard
Amazing a computer with a keyboard, monitor, harddrive, floppy drive, sims,
CD, microphone and speakers all integrated on the motherboard, how'd they do
it? Or did you really mean just the sound card, modem and video were
integrated or in other words $125 in parts were part of the MB and you
couldn't figure out how to disable them so as to put in the latest gizmo or
feature ?
>and it was impossible to upgrade.
You mean the overdrive chip, the two CD's, the various harddrives(3), the 17
inch monitor, the 16mg sims, the scanner, the network card, the IDE/i/o
controller card, the quickcam, the two modems, the 2 mice and the 2 sound
cards were all impossible to install in my PB? Too bad I didn't know that or
I could have saved a bundle by not buying the "upgrades".... or do you mean
you don't know squat thus you couldn't?
>Tech support at Packard Bell is TERRIBLE! Tech support staff are hardly
qualified
>for their jobs from my experiences. Don't buy Packard Bell, you can
>get a better computer for the same price elsewhere.
>Pat Stanley
Of course we'd all be better off paying double for our PC's so a few dopes
can have a well paid, well trained computer junky hold our hands since some
dolts don't know how to read the booklet that comes with your PC.
JAKE
Jon Frohlich
Joseph Hsiao (ne...@Glue.umd.edu) wrote:
: In article <33CF86...@NOSPAMavery.med.virginia.edu>,
: Matt <md...@NOSPAMavery.med.virginia.edu> wrote:
: >OK, folks out there who's knocking PB, have you owned them or are you
: >just joining in flogging them for the fun of it or because it's
: >fashionable? Many Pack-Bell users are not folks who go to newsgroups,
: >so they're not here to defend their product choice.
: most people here i think knock PB because of PB's usage of second hand
: parts in their "brand new machines." not sure if it is actually true and
: has been documents, but if so, this may lead to the high rate of problems
: among PBs.
Yes, this is true. About a month before I sold my PB 486
DX2-50 I received in the mail the letter detailing the class action lawsuit
and the agreed to "settlement" by PB which was basically an extra six month
warranty if your computer was bought between date x1 and date x2 (I can't
remember what they were). Needless to say, the guy I sold the computer
to got a free six month warranty and I got a nice new Gateway which I am
MUCH happier with. Keep in mind, this was all about two years ago, so
PB's troubles are a long time gone.
Ron Ablang
Yes, that is all true, but you can still buy a regular AT case and
start with a new motherboard and chip and case. I would do the above,
except my video card was integrated into the board, along with the 30
pin SIMMS.
--
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