Strike Commander..why I'm angry
michael kloss
these vague things like "it sucks, its too slow" without any sort of
qualifiers would stop. I want to hear the facts about the game, THEN
someone's impression based on that. To just offer these unsubstantiated
(and way too early) comments on Strike Commander is frustating for a guy
like me that's trying to keep an open mind on the whole thing, and wants
to hear facts and HONEST opinions. I've just heard these random comments
about the game from 2 or 3 people on the net here, and it just ruins it
for me when someone says "don't waste your money" without qualifying it
at all. If you all think I'm being nitpicky, then I honestly apologize.
I, for one, want it to stop. Am I alone in this?
Nick Vargish
little seriously; there's a chance that some of these early reports
are nothing but flame-bait. And you fell for it. "Net of a Million
Lies" indeed!
I tend to read all the posts that don't have overt spoilers (I save
_those_ for later reference :^) about a game I'm interested in.
Especially something as eagerly awaited as Strike Commander (X-Wing
had me more hyped, but how often can you get excited about the
imminent release of the same game?) -- but the posts are just people's
opinions... Watch the net, learn whose opinions you tend to agree with
or where you usually disagree with someone; that'll give you _lots_
more information than taking every post at face value.
Nick
p.s. My big complaint is that I'm not going to have the money together
when SC arrives -- assuming it's still on schedule.
--
| Nick Vargish |
| SURAnet Operations | Who needs a fancy .signature when I have all this?
| var...@sura.net |
Daniel Starr
issues of both Game Bytes and Computer Gaming World have previews... not
to mention the game itself in a week.
But as for keeping an open mind: if I were you, I would take that "heed
my words, this game sucks eggs" post with a large grain of salt. It
contradicts the very consistent "boy, this is nifty" opinion of everybody
else who's spoken to date... and they weren't thieves.
As for speed in particular: as I posted earlier from Alan Emrich (of
CGW) on Compuserve, the game _is_ slow on a 386/20 at full detail... but it
was quite acceptable, thanks, with the detail turned down. There are
apparently a LOT of detail-control options... Alan said a friend of
his estimated the speed at full detail at about 20% faster than Falcon 3.0.
My own theory as to why the thief was so unhappy was that he was looking
for something like Comanche, which has a much smaller area and simpler
setup, and can as a result digitize every detail of the geography, for
excellent detail at good speed... but you can't leave the area with
Comanche, nor can you do much besides play shoot-em-up. I think when
the game comes out, it will compare quite favorably to the _real_ competition
-- other flight sims. Sorry, but shooting ducks in a barrel (even if
they're shooting back) doesn't do much for me.
--
This is NOT a .sig virus do NOT copy me into your .sig file This is NOT
* Daniel Starr * Ta twn thewn erga *
* starr-...@yale.edu * Hoi psukhwn twn anthrwpwn logoi. *
a .sig virus do NOT copy me into your .sig file This is NOT a .sig virus
Henry Big Hank Liang
NO! You are absolutely not alone. With the possible exception of Ross
Erickson, who has previously informed us that he's got his hot little
hands on a legit copy of Strike Commander, I don't think anyone else
besides the big-league gaming magazines has a legit copy. As far as I'm
concerned, every post regarding Strike Commander before its scheduled
April 24 release date is bogus. Either that, or its originator is a
pirate. In both cases, ignore the post.
In a more general sense, however, I am also sick and tired of the large
frequency of useless posts saying "it sucks," "I liked it," or "don't
waste your money." *Please*, folks, lend yourselves some credibility
by supporting your opinions with hard solid facts. Anything else is
nothing more than a waste of bandwidth.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry "Big Hank" Liang |
lia...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | PICARD/RIKER '96 -- "MAKE IT SO!"
(215)573-5790 |
Edwards Samuel H
they haven't paid for.......
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
| Samuel H. Edwards
/0\ edw...@sde.mdso.vf.ge.com
\_______[|(.)|]_______/ ASTA Operations Engineer (Martin Marietta)
o ++ 0 ++ o My opinions in no way reflect my employer's
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The RF-4E Phantom - Living proof that if you put enough engine on
something...even a BRICK could fly! W. Weasel
Chera Bekker
I completely agree. I am still trying to decide whether SC is worth the money.
The only things which will help me (and maybee lot's of other people) are
postings which contain at least SOME verifiable statements. A nice standard
would be the articles which appear in GameBytes.
If you want to whine, go to your wife/boss/girlfriend
or any other person who will tell you to shut up or get lost.
DON'T WASTE BANDWIDTH! DEATH TO LONG SIGNATURES!
Chera
--
H.G. Bekker E-mail: bek...@tn.utwente.nl
Faculty of Applied Physics Voice: +3153893107
University of Twente Fax: +3153354003
The Netherlands
Stefan Moser
>My own theory as to why the thief was so unhappy was that he was looking
>for something like Comanche, which has a much smaller area and simpler
>setup, and can as a result digitize every detail of the geography, for
>excellent detail at good speed... but you can't leave the area with
>Comanche, nor can you do much besides play shoot-em-up.
Apart from that, flightsims tend to be not much fun if you do not have the
manual. Ususally there's just too many buttons and keys and dials and
gauges. That's probably where the 'uninformative controls' quote came from.
Stefan
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan Moser ETH Zuerich 'TOMORROW IS THE FIRST DAY
mo...@ks.id.ethz.ch Communication Systems OF THE REST OF YOUR DEATH'
(01) 256-3538 Clausiusstrasse 59 Arnold J. Rimmer
Matthew Kaminer
>April 24 release date is bogus. Either that, or its originator is a
>pirate. In both cases, ignore the post.
>
of the game? Are you saying that pirates are incompetent in judging the
quality of a game?
Just a question.
-Matt
Henry Big Hank Liang
I think it's wise to ignore posts from pirates for the following reasons:
a) You can't be sure that they have the real release version.
b) They probably don't have the proper docs for the game, so
they might be missing out on a lot of the interface that
doesn't come intuitively.
c) Anyone who complains about something that they didn't pay for
isn't worth listening to anyway, especially if their claims are
unsubstantiated. Now, *if* they included some facts with their
post, I'd give 'em a limited amount of credit. Until then,
I'll just ignore them.
Just an answer. :)
Ron Asbestos Dippold
>Just a dumb question. Why would you ignore a post from a pirate who has a copy
> of the game? Are you saying that pirates are incompetent in judging the
> quality of a game?
Unless someone has actually already typed in the manual for this thing
(and Ross says it's pretty big), they're running it blind.
--
Old programmers never die, they just hit account block limit.
johnso...@bvc.edu
This is the truth. I was going to reply to the original letter, but
someone else pretty much covered the bases for me. From a (nearly)
lifelong pirate that has only just reformed in the last 2 years, all of the
above statements strike true. I was never satisfied with any game that I
ever "downloaded" off a BBS. Ususally, a person would only get the game as
"trading fodder" in order to get elite access on yet another BBS. And
since the game is already making it's rounds on those BBS' now, it's safe
to assume that some of them are earlier beta copies of the game with only
sparse documentation. Considering the amount of detail that is probably
going to be in this game, it's safe to assume that the manual is almost a
necescity.
Piracy breeds discontent among gamers.
-_________________________________________________________________________-
[ Christopher Johnson - Buena Vista College, Storm Lake - Cooter Claypool ]
|\o/The Fiery Darts - Boom Key Grip Editor - BEWARE: pOsSiBlE sArCaSm | |
| | "I found a new friend, underneath my pillow." - Language is a Virus/o\|
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[ Reality is just another perception of the senses - JOHNSO...@BVC.EDU ]
_-------------------------------------------------------------------------_
"A knife, a fork, a bottle, and a cork. That's the way you spell New York."
Mark S. Wyman
>mkl...@eng.clemson.edu (michael kloss) writes:
>>I don't know about everyone else, but I wish that these people posting
>>these vague things like "it sucks, its too slow" without any sort of
>>qualifiers would stop. I want to hear the facts about the game, THEN
>>someone's impression based on that. To just offer these unsubstantiated
>>(and way too early) comments on Strike Commander is frustating for a guy
>>like me that's trying to keep an open mind on the whole thing, and wants
>>to hear facts and HONEST opinions. I've just heard these random comments
>>about the game from 2 or 3 people on the net here, and it just ruins it
>>for me when someone says "don't waste your money" without qualifying it
>>at all. If you all think I'm being nitpicky, then I honestly apologize.
>>I, for one, want it to stop. Am I alone in this?
>I completely agree. I am still trying to decide whether SC is worth the money.
>The only things which will help me (and maybee lot's of other people) are
>postings which contain at least SOME verifiable statements. A nice standard
>would be the articles which appear in GameBytes.
>If you want to whine, go to your wife/boss/girlfriend
>or any other person who will tell you to shut up or get lost.
>DON'T WASTE BANDWIDTH! DEATH TO LONG SIGNATURES!
>Chera
WHAT I HATE IS PEOPLE FOLLOWING UP WHINY POSTS WITH REQUESTS NOT TO POST
THE WHINY MESSAGES. ANYONE HEAR OF E-MAIL? WHOOPS....I DID THE SAME THING!
i don't usually type in all upper case but hell I feel kinda spunky if you
know what I mean.
Mark
James Hague
>
>Matthew Kaminer <MAK...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>Just a dumb question. Why would you ignore a post from a pirate who has a copy
>> of the game? Are you saying that pirates are incompetent in judging the
>> quality of a game?
>
>Unless someone has actually already typed in the manual for this thing
>(and Ross says it's pretty big), they're running it blind.
The pirates I've run across tend to be collectors, not game players
(or software users). They fool with the currently hot game for a bit
then worry about obtaining the next much balyhooed and unreleased program.
Snap judgements ("awesome" or "it sucks") without any basis are the norm.
(Actually, it often seems that a still unreleased game is "awesome" and
then "it sucks" when the general public can purchase it.)
Richard Wyckoff
> since the game is already making it's rounds on those BBS' now, it's safe
> to assume that some of them are earlier beta copies of the game with only
> sparse documentation. Considering the amount of detail that is probably
> going to be in this game, it's safe to assume that the manual is almost a
> necescity.
This may be true, but...
> Piracy breeds discontent among gamers.
THIS I take issue with - not to restart the whole piracy issue, but
some 'more honorable' pirates aren't pirating just because they are trapped in
the whole vicious circle of trading for more access...some actually believe in
the concept of 'try before you buy' - There are so many games I've paid money
for merely because some CRAP magazines or IDIOTIC gameplayers lavished them
with praise - Terminator 2029, for instance, the biggest waste of 14 megabytes
I've ever seen (read my review in GameBytes)- that I wish I could have played
them for a night before wasting my $50. The software industry, with a few
notable exceptions, has lost track of the whole idea of the demo - something
PLAYABLE - to give you an idea of what the game you are interested in is
actually like, rather than whether it has pretty animated sequences.
The real reason piracy breeds discontent is that total crap games -
which I'd estimate make up 50% or more of those released - are exposed. This
could be remedied in two ways: One, software stores could have more machines
with more games installed, to give customers very good ideas of graphics/sound/
gameplay; Two, companies could GET THEIR ACTS TOGETHER, and make real demos.
(Of course, there is Three, which is impossible: companies could stop being in
it for the money, and rather exist to make good games. Ha ha ha.)
--
Crazy? I was crazy once! They locked me up in a rubber room! It was cold! I
died! They buried me! There were worms! It drove me *crazy*! Crazy? I
was crazy once...
**Richard Wyckoff**RWYC...@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU**
Henry Big Hank Liang
>In article <1993Apr20....@bvc.edu>, johnso...@bvc.edu writes:
>
>> Piracy breeds discontent among gamers.
>
> THIS I take issue with - not to restart the whole piracy issue, but
>some 'more honorable' pirates aren't pirating just because they are trapped in
>the whole vicious circle of trading for more access...some actually believe in
>the concept of 'try before you buy' - There are so many games I've paid money
>for merely because some CRAP magazines or IDIOTIC gameplayers lavished them
>with praise - Terminator 2029, for instance, the biggest waste of 14 megabytes
>I've ever seen (read my review in GameBytes)- that I wish I could have played
>them for a night before wasting my $50. The software industry, with a few
>notable exceptions, has lost track of the whole idea of the demo - something
>PLAYABLE - to give you an idea of what the game you are interested in is
>actually like, rather than whether it has pretty animated sequences.
>
Of course, you could always just buy the game from stores that have those
nifty 30-day return-if-you-hate-it policies. I've taken back an awful lot
of games to my local Software, etc. that just plain sucked. If your local
software store doesn't support that sort of policy, you should either
demand that they adopt one or that they should allow you to "try before you
buy" in the store. Hey, *you're* the consumer, *you're* their source of
$$$, so you should make your grievances known. If the store doesn't
comply, take your business elsewhere, and let 'em *know* that you're doing so.
From the above, it just doesn't seem [material conducive to yet another
huge piracy debate deleted]. :)
I *do* agree with you're suggestion that game companies should come out
with demos that actually tell us something about their game, tho. Recent
demos, like that for X-Wing, just seem like hype to get the consumers
excited.
Sean Lee Hayden
AND YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE (*like if you care*)-->PEOPLE FOLLOWING UP FOLLOW UP
WHINY POSTS WITH A REQUEST NOT TO POST THEN SAYING WOOOPS....I DID THE SAME
THING!
(* Are we cought in a recursive loop? *)
(* Thouse greater then signs keep getting *)
(* bigger and bigger and bigger and ..... *)
Flames directed to Lester...@lintun.lousiana
(* I know, I know i can't spell *)
S.Hayden
P.s May all your programs produce a Bus error and core dump!
Fredric Lonngren
|>
|> Of course, you could always just buy the game from stores that have those
|> nifty 30-day return-if-you-hate-it policies. I've taken back an awful lot
|> of games to my local Software, etc. that just plain sucked. If your local
|> software store doesn't support that sort of policy, you should either
|> demand that they adopt one or that they should allow you to "try before you
|> buy" in the store. Hey, *you're* the consumer, *you're* their source of
|> $$$, so you should make your grievances known. If the store doesn't
|> comply, take your business elsewhere, and let 'em *know* that you're doing so.
|>
Sigh, wish I could take my business elsewhere, but there are no try-before-
you-buy shops here in Sweden, nor anyone that takes back a game just because
I think it sux.
--
Disclaimer: Did _I_ say that ?
-- F r e d r i c L o n n g r e n --
==== Ericsson Telecom AB Email : Fredric....@eos.ericsson.se ====
-====== EO/ETX/TX/VH Memo : ERI.ETX.ETXFLN ======-
==== 126 25 STOCKHOLM Voice : + 46 8 719 5226 * OS/2 2.1 * ====
-- SWEDEN Fax : + 46 8 719 5557 --
Stefan Moser
>In article <122...@netnews.upenn.edu>, lia...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Henry "Big Hank" Liang) writes:
>|>
>|> Of course, you could always just buy the game from stores that have those
>|> nifty 30-day return-if-you-hate-it policies. I've taken back an awful lot
>|> of games to my local Software, etc. that just plain sucked. If your local
>|> software store doesn't support that sort of policy, you should either
>|> demand that they adopt one or that they should allow you to "try before you
>|> buy" in the store. Hey, *you're* the consumer, *you're* their source of
>|> $$$, so you should make your grievances known. If the store doesn't
>|> comply, take your business elsewhere, and let 'em *know* that you're doing so.
>|>
>Sigh, wish I could take my business elsewhere, but there are no try-before-
>you-buy shops here in Sweden, nor anyone that takes back a game just because
>I think it sux.
I know exactly what you mean. I too live in a part of this planet where
customers satisfaction isn't worth shit. There is, however, two partial
solutions to the problem. The better one is, find a small store, that has
specialized in games. Start buying your games there. After a while the
salesperson(s) will you. If yo buy enough games there, they're probably
be happy to give you some kind of unofficial return policy. The catch is,
you have to be careful not to blow it by returning to many games, since the
agreement is on a personal basis. In my case, this solution has worked
out pretty good, since:
- my friendly little SW store usually seels about 10% cheaper than the
place I've purchased before
- they have demo machines and they will actually allow you to test games
(also there are never a lot of people in there, so you don't have to
queue)
- the guys that work there know what they're talking about (and that is
a pretty weird concept for SW sales persons)
The other solution is to go to a big department store and buy your games
there. If you don't like it, go back and complain that you can't get it
to run on your machine. They usually have no clue what your talking about.
Also, they will probably be resistant at first, but insist, annoy them,
get nasty if it has to be (hey, after all they'r trying to fuck you over,
so do the same thing to them). Of course the best thing to this is a busy
saturday afternoon, with lots of other customers waiting to pay for theyr
shit. It's pretty amazing how much that changes the sales droids attitude
(especially if you raise your voice a little bit). This has worked for
me a couple of times, but, just to be honest, is did not work for about
the same amount of times. But it's always worth a try (better than just
giving in).
Hope that helps a bit. You got my moral support. And have fun screaming
at the sales droids ;o)
--
Stefan Moser ETH Zuerich 'TOMORROW IS THE FIRST DAY
mo...@ks.id.ethz.ch Communication Systems OF THE REST OF YOUR DEATH'
(01) 256-3538 Clausiusstrasse 59 Arnold J. Rimmer
CH-8092 Zuerich First Technician, Red Dwarf
Michael Lewchuk
>In article <122...@netnews.upenn.edu>, lia...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Henry "Big Hank" Liang) writes:
Generally I find that any good software store instantly copies any popular
game onto its hard drive(s) for "demo purposes". That is, if you wanna see
what Ultima 7 or Xwing is like, they already have the game loaded so you can
try it (or they can try it for you since they've probably read the manual).
Apart from people in Sweden, I would think that this is common practice.
Or is it not common in Europe? If not, perhaps consider ordering it from an
international software store in the US, one that has this 30-day money-back
guarantee (or whatever)? I'm sure some of the Netters here familiar with
software companies could suggest at least one firm that ships internationally.
As for piracy and gaming, well, if the game is complex and you don't have
the manual, you are missing out on a lot. Imagine playing Falcon 3.0 without
a manual. Imagine playing any of the fantasy adventure games without the
manual -- and no magic spell list (such as Bard's Tale -- no manual means
no idea of what spells there are or which spell does what).
I would agree that demos may not give you a full idea of the game, however
I was impressed with the Ultima Underworld demo: one full level to explore.
It gives you a great idea of what you'll be buying. I would agree that those
pix on the back cover don't give you much of a clue as to how good the game
is. Pix don't imply a good plotline or game system. In many cases they are
also somehow shaded to convey a greater resolution than I see on my SVGA
monitor.
In any case, have fun. I'm not too concerned about a game's potential since
I usually buy it from you nuts on the Net instead of buying it from the store.
Much cheaper and much better since I can read about your problems before I
figure out how much I wanna spend on it.
By the way, for the person(s) in Sweeden: is there only one company in your
area, and this company does not allow returns? I would think that in Sweeden
or central Europe there must be some other software dealers. Perhaps some
in England that you could deal with?
Michael Lewchuk
lew...@cs.UAlberta.CA
Fredric Lonngren
|> etx...@eos.ericsson.se (Fredric Lonngren) writes:
|> >In article <122...@netnews.upenn.edu>, lia...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Henry "Big Hank" Liang) writes:
|> >>> ... A thread about 20 messages long about SC, Piracy, etc.
|>
|> Generally I find that any good software store instantly copies any popular
|> game onto its hard drive(s) for "demo purposes". That is, if you wanna see
|> what Ultima 7 or Xwing is like, they already have the game loaded so you can
|> try it (or they can try it for you since they've probably read the manual).
|>
|> Apart from people in Sweden, I would think that this is common practice.
|> Or is it not common in Europe? If not, perhaps consider ordering it from an
|> international software store in the US, one that has this 30-day money-back
|> guarantee (or whatever)? I'm sure some of the Netters here familiar with
|> software companies could suggest at least one firm that ships internationally.
|>
I don't know for the rest of Europe, but there was some other guy reporting
the same bought-is-bought attitude from some other European country.
Can someone else in Europe tell us if there is some decent customer support on
this side of the Atlantic?
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> By the way, for the person(s) in Sweeden: is there only one company in your
|> area, and this company does not allow returns? I would think that in Sweeden
|> or central Europe there must be some other software dealers. Perhaps some
|> in England that you could deal with?
|>
No, there are quite a lot of SW/Game retailers around here, (I live in the
center of Stockholm), but since none have money-back-guarantee (or whatever)
there is no competition in that customer-service field. They seem to think
that if none else have that service, it's not neccesary for them to have it
either.
As for US/some decent EU country mailordering.
1. Delivery time, I mostly want my games instantly.
2. Postage and handling fees, the stores got this covered by large orders.
3. Messy overall, a)order b)wait c)try d)send back e)hope they don't mess up
your account, and I have to pay all the shipping around myself.
4. Marketing policy. When Origin released UW2 they hold the Europen market
back 4 weeks after the US. Any US retailer that sold a copy of it to Europe
(directimporting stores or private gamefreaks) would be moved down or
removed from Electronic Arts retailer list. Of course this gave the
European pirate groups an open market to operate on.
So, to return a game today I have to walk into the store a busy Saturday
afternoon, stand by the counter and with a loud and clear voice declare
what a piece of sh*t they have sold me, if that don't do it, blame my poor
HW that: is too slow/too fast/is a GUS/has an OPTI chipset/has some unknown
video card from Peru, or what creativity gives for the moment. ( No insult
intended to any of those mentioned, I'm talking to a busy sales-droid here
that think a ibm-pc is some oversized SNES).
And when everything else failes, "It will not run under os/2...". That should
do it defenitly.
It's a shame thou that one have to get dishonest to be able to claim decent
customer rights.
As for playable demos, I agree with what have been said before in this thread.
Give us a full version of about half an hour of the game to try it out.
That's all for this time from the land with customer support from hell.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Yes! Why?
1. They don't have the benift of the manual.
2. They probably are going to spend more time uploading to C00L Warz BBSes
for all their buddies than they will spend playing it to give it a fair`
judgement.
3. You treat things differently that you get for free than things that
you pay for with your hard earn money.
4. They are getting the pre-released version which is completely void
of any bug fixes.
Rob Merritt
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
I Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone, not of my employer, not I
I of my friends and family, and not of a co-worker. I
I I
I "When a Girl like K3-Myrlu bonds with you, you got to remember I
I two things. First, its for life. Second, its with your Central I
I Nervous System!" I
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
The Gersh
>In article <93110.081...@psuvm.psu.edu> MAK...@psuvm.psu.edu (Matthew Kaminer) writes:
>>In article <121...@netnews.upenn.edu>, lia...@polka.seas.upenn.edu (Henry "Big
>>Hank" Liang) says:
>>>
>>>In article <1993Apr19.1...@hubcap.clemson.edu> mkl...@eng.clemson.edu
>>>writes:
>>>concerned, every post regarding Strike Commander before its scheduled
>>>April 24 release date is bogus. Either that, or its originator is a
>>>pirate. In both cases, ignore the post.
>>>
>>Just a dumb question. Why would you ignore a post from a pirate who has a copy
>> of the game? Are you saying that pirates are incompetent in judging the
>> quality of a game?
>>
>>Just a question.
>>-Matt
>
>
>Yes! Why?
>1. They don't have the benift of the manual.
>2. They probably are going to spend more time uploading to C00L Warz BBSes
>for all their buddies than they will spend playing it to give it a fair`
>judgement.
>3. You treat things differently that you get for free than things that
>you pay for with your hard earn money.
>4. They are getting the pre-released version which is completely void
>of any bug fixes.
>
Hmmmm....
1. Sometimes they get a FULL manual all typed up or scanned.
Otherwise they get quick dox. So there goes number 1.
2. Probably true, although with 14400 baud modems and batch
uploading, most games take probably less than two hours to do that.
So there goes number 2.
3. True.
4. Not always true, but may be true for Strike Commander. Most of
the time I would think they would get a full release version... So
there goes number 4.
I think number 3 was the most important fact. Plus, they get SO
MANY GAMES so EASILY, that each game is a blur. They don't spend
enough time on each game, because a few days later a new game comes
out ...
I am still deciding whether to buy strike commander, waiting for
more reviews...
Steven
William R. Sauerwald <wrsauerw>
>AND YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE (*like if you care*)-->PEOPLE FOLLOWING UP FOLLOW UP
>WHINY POSTS WITH A REQUEST NOT TO POST THEN SAYING WOOOPS....I DID THE SAME
>THING!
>
And I hate people who quote an entire article and add one f*ing line.
To an article that didn't need to be followed up to begin with...and don't
change the F*ING Header when they change the F*ing subject.
Maybe we wouldn't have to split up this group if people would think B4 they
post.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrsa...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil |"Something's wrong with this world
Bill Sauerwald, BSAE/ME U of MD | when clowns got lawyers, too."
Aberdeen Proving Ground, Edgewood MD |
We do more before 9 am blah,blah,blah|"Its not the heat...Its the studipity
The President will disavow all | Its not the drug, did this to me."
knowlegde of my actions | Too Much Joy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Marks
> So, to return a game today I have to walk into the store a busy Saturday
>afternoon, stand by the counter and with a loud and clear voice declare
>what a piece of sh*t they have sold me, if that don't do it, blame my poor
>HW that: is too slow/too fast/is a GUS/has an OPTI chipset/has some unknown
>video card from Peru, or what creativity gives for the moment. ( No insult
>intended to any of those mentioned, I'm talking to a busy sales-droid here
>that think a ibm-pc is some oversized SNES).
>And when everything else failes, "It will not run under os/2...". That should
>do it defenitly.
>It's a shame thou that one have to get dishonest to be able to claim decent
>customer rights.
> As for playable demos, I agree with what have been said before in this thread.
>Give us a full version of about half an hour of the game to try it out.
> That's all for this time from the land with customer support from hell.
>--
Opinion from an ex-software salesperson (oops, make that "droid" ... beep,
beep, click, whirrrr)...
The policy we had (probably still have) at our store was to obtain as many
demos as possible to place on our two demo machines, automatically open
a copy of any "hot" new game that arrives and place it on the machine as
well ... beyond that, its out of our control, once a person opens the
packaging on a game (or any software product for that matter), they agree
to the copyright of the product and the retailers cannot legally resell
it (however, the arrival of a shrinkwrapping machine in our store changed
that scenario - but I didn't say that!).
Generally speaking, we are happy to refund or - preferably - exhange goods
that do not work for whatever reason. This extends to people who buy
Commanche Maximum Overkill to run on an XT avec CGA monitor and 640K.
EVEN THOUGH THE OPERATING ENVIRONMENT ARE CLEARLY STATED ON THE BOX!!!
However, people who wish to return the product because of perceived lack
of quality are fighting a lost cause. Let us look at the following
example...
(Scene One: Bookstore)
IRATE LADY: Excuse me, sir!
SALESDROID: Yes - how can I help you?
IRATE LADY: I would like to return this book.
SALESDROID: I see ... what seems to be the problem?
IRATE LADY: I didn't like it ...
SALESDROID: ... I'm sorry???
IRATE LADY: I read it - didn't like it, and I want my money back.
SALESDROID: (Long silence as Basil Fawlty expression flies over
face of salesdroid) ... Certainly, madam - how would
you like that; dollars, lira, sterling, gold perhaps,
or maybe long term debentures in Pan Am?
Need I say more (PS: Not all software salespeople know nothing about
their products!)
Beep, beep, whiz, clunk...
--
Andrew Marks
Master by Research
Department of Software Development
The Gersh
Very cute.
Hmmmm... last time I checked a book cost about $5. Let's see how
much does Ultima 7.5 go for... let's see, $60??? Hmmmm...
Also, a book is not "shrinkwrapped". Before you buy, you can glance
through the book. Hell, I've seen people read whole sections of the
book in a bookstore. You can not easily view the game (unless a so
called demo, which might not actually represent the game (look at
the x-wing demo), is actually present), unless you bring your
portable computer with you, and they let you load it on there (yeah,
right).
Come on, these two things (books and games) are sold COMPLETELY
DIFFERENTLY!!!!! This is why more and more stores are accepting
returns.
Sure there might be a few demos loaded up on your systems, but the
majority of games people have to decide on reviews (if they read
them), and what is on the front and back of the box, which can
always be misleading.
When I had an Atari ST a few years ago, there was a store where you
can try out each game you wanted on their systems. They accepted no
returns (unless game becomes defective). This is pretty much like
your example of the bookstore. But very few places are like this.
What do you you can't legally resell it? You just return it to the
manufacturer (that is what comp usa does, and that is what I assume
other stores do). No problem.
You can even re-"shrinkwrap" the stupid game and put it back on the
shelf.
Maybe you are an exception to the case, but most salesdroids are
just that... :-)
Sorry if I have offended anyone...
Steven
Edwards Samuel H
Etc a few years ago (1985-87), but now there is too much threat of
viruses that more and more stores are just "junking" returns. There
has to be a better way to satisfy the computer consumer. It's a shame.
At least with books you have libraries to check em out and see em
beforehand, and with nintendo any video store now carries them. But
someday, (when everything is on CD-ROM dream) we will be able to return
anything on account of customer dissastifaction.
Mark S. Wyman
I hate it when poster's signature is as long as the poster's comment :)
By the way, I didn't know the subject was F*ING.
Ron Asbestos Dippold
>IRATE LADY: I would like to return this book.
>SALESDROID: I see ... what seems to be the problem?
>IRATE LADY: I didn't like it ...
>SALESDROID: ... I'm sorry???
>IRATE LADY: I read it - didn't like it, and I want my money back.
I do just this, actually. Bookstar has a return for any reason
policy. I've only used it twice in two years (one for a really
horrible book on Saturday Night Live), but it's there.
[ BTW, the followups in this thread are REALLY out of control. Please
trim your (this is a "global your" not a you specifically) quotes! ]
--
Certified Public Assassin
Blackplague
The state of Virginia requires retailers to accept merchandise for return
within the first 30 days of sale. Certain restrictions can be placed ob
this, ie.e must be in original condition and must include original
packaging, and must have receipt, etc....
None of the allowable restrictions permit retailers to refuse a refund on
software, as long as the basic requirements are met. This is the law, and
it superceeds any retailer statement to the contrary. You may have to
bitch to get your money, but you have a right to do so, regardless of any
"shrink wrap" licensing agreement.
Note, this applies to Virginia, your state/country may be diferent.
Blackplague
R. Cliff Young
>RE-Shrinkwrapping a game used to be common practice at B. Dalton Software
>Etc a few years ago (1985-87), but now there is too much threat of
Having had the (mis?)fortune to work at a Babbage's in the D.C. Metro
area a couple years ago, I can assure you that they re-shrinkwrap to
excess and still do. You can usually spot the re-shrinkwraps,
though--they're usually shoddy jobs, and charred plastic and large
tears are common.
I've noticed re-shrinkwrapped stock at a local Software Etc, albeit
not to the extent that Babbage's shelves...
When buying software, always try to get the original shrinkwrap.
Viruses are not the only problem--a rewrapped product could be missing
the registration card, for example. (Software sales associates or
store managers accepting returns might not be completely briefed on
the contents of any particular package.)
Of course, you can still get screwed. When I bought Falcon 3.0, it
had the original Spectrum Holobyte wrap (with the blue "Spectrum
Holobyte" all over it). I opened the box to find a badly mangled
manual (quite usable, though--just quite used-*looking*!) (And the
F3.0 executable turned out to be rather odd [albeit in a harmless
fashion], but that's a completely different story I won't bother going
into right now!)
--
R. Cliff Young --/\/-- Work: cl...@sfn.ORG | Fun: nuk...@access.digex.com
Phone: (703)573-0913 (USA) | GEnie: R.YOUNG52 | AOL: Nuk...@aol.com
Mail: 7374 Arlington Blvd., Falls Church, VA USA 22042-1515 /QR:RFO:SID
"I'll teach you to laugh and to cry // They're really the same you'll see..."
Richard M. Hartman
>Of course, you can still get screwed. When I bought Falcon 3.0, it
>had the original Spectrum Holobyte wrap (with the blue "Spectrum
>Holobyte" all over it). I opened the box to find a badly mangled
>manual (quite usable, though--just quite used-*looking*!) (And the
>F3.0 executable turned out to be rather odd [albeit in a harmless
>fashion], but that's a completely different story I won't bother going
>into right now!)
Why NOT!!
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