Article: "The DRM Effect".
Giftzwerg
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/4888-The-DRM-
Effect
Money quotes:
"PC gaming isn't dying; it's committing suicide."
"It's not that I contend there is no problem with piracy, or that the PC
market is as durable as it once was. It's just that I'm tired of hearing
developers bitch about it."
--
Giftzwerg
***
"My all-time favorite political cartoon dates back to a couple of
decades ago. It shows an American explaining our politics to a man from
Eastern Europe. 'Well sure,' he says, 'the government lies.
And the newspapers lie. But in a democracy they aren t the same lies."
The AP has become very closely allied with a certain political party.
Pretty soon they may be the same lies."
- Mike G.
Bloodstar
Vincenzo Beretta
"Bloodstar" <george.w...@microsoft.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:g0qe7r$slb$1...@sunce.iskon.hr...
> Vinzenzo just translate text to Italian :o)))
I'll do more. When I write the review of Mass Effect, I'll give to it two
marks: one to the game as it is, quality wise, and one to the game as it
stands with its DRM scheme - like we already did for other titles.
Also, I'll do a comparison between the *current* announced DRM scheme and
Bioshock's one. I have the feeling that ME's DRM is still worse than BS's -
and *that one* caused an uproar. But, since EA and Bioware dialed back from
an even more restrictive scheme, many people are "hooraying" and "we
won!"-ning. Basic consumer herding techniques, really
(Like in "1984", by Orwell, when they had to reduce the chocolate ration
from 100 grams to 80 grams, and thus announced an *increase* of the ration
"from 50 grams to 80 grams!" and everybody was happy. Same thing).
Privately, I'll clock how long it will get before the crack appears on the
net - thus making the "only legit costumers are shafted" foregone conclusion
official.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> But, since EA and Bioware dialed back from
> an even more restrictive scheme, many people are "hooraying" and "we
> won!"-ning. Basic consumer herding techniques, really
I dunno - I figure it that EA et al were just testing the waters to
see how far they could go with their DRM, with this being their
fallback position.
What they managed to do was make a lot more people aware there is such
a thing as DRM and what it does and once such a genie is out of the
bottle it's pretty hard to put it back in.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
The real test for DRM will be Sims 3 and you will see that there will be no
big uproar among customers of Sims 3.
I will tell you the secret - Sims games buys mostly women and women have
more patience that's why they get more job at post office or in the bank or
in the bakery selling bread etc...
Did I predicted increase in DRM few years ago? Yup. If EA is going DRM way
then we will see lot's of smaller just follow the suite. We will have
interesting Fall Season :o)))
I would advise EA's CEP not to go at practice range where Gifty is
practicing with his revolvers :o)))
So basically you tell your readers about DRM so that they make buying
decision?
What is precentage of piratery in Italy? How many sales some title can
achive (console, or PC mainstream game)? if you know the data.
Mario
Vincenzo Beretta
Clean your house, and all your town will be clean :o)
> The real test for DRM will be Sims 3 and you will see that there will be
> no big uproar among customers of Sims 3.
Dunno. The average players of The Sims, the ones who propelled it into the
stratosphere, are the average housewifes who you can find in every corner of
the World. It would be interesting to see their reactions to a scheme that
"phones home" exp. for those who still pay the phonecall.
> Did I predicted increase in DRM few years ago? Yup. If EA is going DRM way
> then we will see lot's of smaller just follow the suite.
Hey, "Lemmings" was and still is a popular game!
> We will have interesting Fall Season :o)))
> I would advise EA's CEP not to go at practice range where Gifty is
> practicing with his revolvers :o)))
> So basically you tell your readers about DRM so that they make buying
> decision?
Yes.
> What is precentage of piratery in Italy?
Dunno about that, but one thing I know for sure: in Italy pirated games are
cracked. When a "new and smart" activation scheme hits the shelves, the ones
you see on the verge of a seizure are usually the store clerks, who find
themselves in the position of the average British soldier at Rorke's Drift..
When Half-Life 2 came out, a store manager personally complained to me about
the number of returned copied they had - meanwhile the crack was already
available for those in the knowing. It happens.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> > Better clean that garbage in Napoli :o)))
>
> Clean your house, and all your town will be clean :o)
Clean your house ... by chucking it all on the street :)
> > So basically you tell your readers about DRM so that they make buying
> > decision?
>
> Yes.
<applause>
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
rec...@hotmail.com says...
> > The real test for DRM will be Sims 3 and you will see that there will be
> > no big uproar among customers of Sims 3.
>
> Dunno. The average players of The Sims, the ones who propelled it into the
> stratosphere, are the average housewifes who you can find in every corner of
> the World. It would be interesting to see their reactions to a scheme that
> "phones home" exp. for those who still pay the phonecall.
Better yet, what's going to be the reaction of these naive gamers when
they encounter pricks like Battlefront or SES and their fucked-up Nazi
DRM:
Lady Gamer: "My husband upgraded our computer and now I can't play my
game. It just says it needs to 'activate,' but I already did that."
Tech Support Prick: "You had to use the license transfer utility
routine menu option before you upgraded."
LG: "Oh. I didn't know that. I just want to play my game. Can you
help?"
TSP: "Sorry. Your EULA says we can't re-license once you use your
license up."
LG: "But ... this is ridiculous! I bought this game!"
As I've pointed out before, longtime PC gamers *barely* tolerate this
DRM bullshit. Joe Sixpack and the Missus are going to positively freak
the fuck out when their $2,500 HDTV stops outputting HDMI from their
$1,700 media center because some lackwit at XYZCo misprogrammed a
license utility or XYZCo's WGA server is frakked.
Already the music industry has stepped on its own dick with DRM and the
public is fleeing in horror at incompatible schemes that mean they can't
play their music like they want. Too late, they've started to shitcan
DRM and get real with their pricing, but it's still possible that the
only people working in the music industry in a decade will be a bunch of
lawyers.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <c_aYj.49395$o06.46...@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
> reck...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > The real test for DRM will be Sims 3 and you will see that there will be
> > > no big uproar among customers of Sims 3.
>
> > Dunno. The average players of The Sims, the ones who propelled it into the
> > stratosphere, are the average housewifes who you can find in every corner of
> > the World. It would be interesting to see their reactions to a scheme that
> > "phones home" exp. for those who still pay the phonecall.
>
> Better yet, what's going to be the reaction of these naive gamers when
> they encounter pricks like Battlefront or SES and their fucked-up Nazi
> DRM:
>
> Lady Gamer: "My husband upgraded our computer and now I can't play my
> game. It just says it needs to 'activate,' but I already did that."
>
> Tech Support Prick: "You had to use the license transfer utility
> routine menu option before you upgraded."
>
> LG: "Oh. I didn't know that. I just want to play my game. Can you
> help?"
>
> TSP: "Sorry. Your EULA says we can't re-license once you use your
> license up."
>
> LG: "But ... this is ridiculous! I bought this game!"
>
> As I've pointed out before, longtime PC gamers *barely* tolerate this
> DRM bullshit.
Your example is optimistic in the extreme : that tech support guy was
a) reachable and b) actually gave an answer.
What will happen is the same thing that happened in the music
industry : people got burned, some complained but most simply said
"screw this" and never bought a cd again.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> What will happen is the same thing that happened in the music
> industry : people got burned, some complained but most simply said
> "screw this" and never bought a cd again.
I’ve been thinking <WARNING : Danger Ahead>
When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn’t going to run
on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn’t just stop buying cd’s
from the offending “publisher” (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
buying cd’s altogether – from all music companies - because there was
no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
on my car cd player or not.
We’re starting to reach a point where some game publishers might
consider putting “NO DRM” in bold 25 point letters on their webshop
software, lest they’d get the same shunning treatment from gamers
who’ve been burned by DRM
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
13d8f9...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
> > As I've pointed out before, longtime PC gamers *barely* tolerate this
> > DRM bullshit.
>
> Your example is optimistic in the extreme : that tech support guy was
> a) reachable and b) actually gave an answer.
>
> What will happen is the same thing that happened in the music
> industry : people got burned, some complained but most simply said
> "screw this" and never bought a cd again.
Exactly. I actually know people just like this. And guess where they
went? Yup. Bitorrent. Tons of music, all of it free, not an eLicense
anywhere in sight.
Now the music industry is suing everyone in sight. Except ... there's
nobody *in* sight, is there?
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Now the music industry is suing everyone in sight. Except ... there's
> nobody *in* sight, is there?
It gets even better. Now the RIAA is starting to lose court cases :)
http://techdirt.com/articles/20080515/1228441125.shtml
I'm fully expecting some smartass to set-up a honey trap for the RIAA
to find and sue him so he can counter-claim and get huge damages
awarded.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Now the music industry is suing everyone in sight. Except ... there's
> > nobody *in* sight, is there?
>
> It gets even better. Now the RIAA is starting to lose court cases :)
>
> http://techdirt.com/articles/20080515/1228441125.shtml
>
> I'm fully expecting some smartass to set-up a honey trap for the RIAA
> to find and sue him so he can counter-claim and get huge damages
> awarded.
They're wide-open to this, aren't they, given their shoddy, shotgun
approach.
I figure their ultimate Waterloo will happen when some ivy league
college turns over a list of IP addresses and somebody like Gerry
Spence's granddaughter pops out onto some fill-in-the-blanks subpoena.
"Wait, what? Who are we suing?"
von Schmidt
The RIAA lost the first case in your link- and rightly so- because
they could not provide evidence against the accused.
In the second one, the accused was found guilty - but the judge seems
to have had second thoughts about how precedent was interpreted, so
ordered a review.
Note that the accused did not appeal on grounds of innocence, but
against the size of the fine.
Even though I am against DRM, I do not like thieves and pirates
either.
Go RIAA!
Regards,
-von Schmidt
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In the second one, the accused was found guilty - but the judge seems
> to have had second thoughts about how precedent was interpreted, so
> ordered a review.
"The judge has now admitted that he may have committed a "manifest
error of law" in his jury instructions, and it sounds like he's going
to order a new trial."
> Even though I am against DRM, I do not like thieves and pirates
> either.
> Go RIAA!
Excuse me for having no sympathy for the RIAA or their local version
of it (SABAM) because of first hand experience with their extortionist
methods. My wife's dentist got a big fine because he was playing music
in his waiting room which according to those scumbags was "playing
music for entertaining audiences in a public space".
And for every blank CD/DVD I buy I pay a "music recording" fine to
them - so the cd (*) I burned yesterday evening as a backup for a
powerpoint presentation my wife is giving today is money directly
embezzled from me.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
(*) USB sticks are seen as a security vulnerability and strictly
"Verboten" - go figure.
Giftzwerg
e680c8...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, von_s...@mail.com says...
Uh, no. The original grounds for the appeal was the excessive nature of
the award, but the judge is apparently considering ordering a new trial
because of a fundamental error made in misapplying valid precedent in a
jury instruction.
This is the very *heart* of the RIAA's "making available" bullshit, and
the whole case - indeed, most of these cases - is gonna go bye-bye if
"making available" is not grounds for infringement.
> Even though I am against DRM, I do not like thieves and pirates
> either.
> Go RIAA!
But that's exactly the problem in this case. The "making available"
argument holds that one is a "thief" for simply having music - and music
which one legally purchased - on their PC exposed to the internet. This
is a bit like calling me a "thief" for leaving some CDs on my porch if a
local kid sneaks over and copies them. Uh, who stole what, here?
In fact, if "making available" is copyright infringement, why isn't your
local library in the dock? Aren't they "making available" copyrighted
materials in *exactly* the same fashion that Jammie Thomas did?
Couldn't someone make a digital copy of a library book that is "made
available"?
Giftzwerg
@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> "The judge has now admitted that he may have committed a "manifest
> error of law" in his jury instructions, and it sounds like he's going
> to order a new trial."
Exactly. This is the judge himself saying, "I (maybe) fucked up," not a
ruling from the appellate court.
> > Even though I am against DRM, I do not like thieves and pirates
> > either.
> > Go RIAA!
>
> Excuse me for having no sympathy for the RIAA or their local version
> of it (SABAM) because of first hand experience with their extortionist
> methods. My wife's dentist got a big fine because he was playing music
> in his waiting room which according to those scumbags was "playing
> music for entertaining audiences in a public space".
The problem they're facing is that the public face of the defendants is
fresh-faced college students (doing exactly what college students have
been doing since the tape-deck got invented; sharing music and making
mix tapes....), while the public face of the plaintiffs are a bunch of
greedy shysters suing on the behalf of some heroin-soaked talentless
millionaire twat wandering the streets of London with her track marks
hanging out.
Yeah. Whew. We gotta stop the miscreants who are stealing Amy's daily
skag budget.
Major H
12ec5c92-ccd2-44f5...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
"eddys...@hotmail.com" <eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasnąt going to run
> on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didnąt just stop buying cdąs
> from the offending łpublisher˛ (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
> buying cdąs altogether from all music companies - because there was
> no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
> on my car cd player or not.
Wow ... same here. I didn't really think about it, I just instantly
switched to buying all my music from iTunes and have not returned since to a
brick music store. At the time iTunes also had DRM but the various Apple
schemes did not prevent me from playing my purchased music on the various
old and new personal, car, and home devices that I owned. When I used the
provided Apple program to burn my purchased music onto a CD, that CD played
wherever I put it and still does.
Your mileage may vary.
Best regards, Major H
Maj...@satx.rr.com
Giftzwerg
says...
> > When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn¹t going to run
> > on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn¹t just stop buying cd¹s
> > from the offending ³publisher² (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
> > buying cd¹s altogether from all music companies - because there was
> > no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
> > on my car cd player or not.
>
> Wow ... same here. I didn't really think about it, I just instantly
> switched to buying all my music from iTunes and have not returned since to a
> brick music store. At the time iTunes also had DRM but the various Apple
> schemes did not prevent me from playing my purchased music on the various
> old and new personal, car, and home devices that I owned. When I used the
> provided Apple program to burn my purchased music onto a CD, that CD played
> wherever I put it and still does.
>
> Your mileage may vary.
Even better is something like QTFairUse, which batch-rips Apple's DRM
out of your iTunes directories and leaves you with nice, neat,
unprotected .m4a files which can be done with as you like.
Even better is taking a format converter like WinAmp and turning iTunes
into .mp3s.
I've spent a lot of money at iTunes over the last few years; I've got a
substantial investment to protect, and I need all of these tunes in a
format that no one can pull the rug out from under.
Poky
>When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn’t going to run
>on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn’t just stop buying cd’s
>from the offending “publisher” (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
>buying cd’s altogether – from all music companies - because there was
>no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
>on my car cd player or not.
But it does tell you on the outside of the cd case. Any DRM music I
have seen always says in small print that it contains such software.
Vincenzo Beretta
Actually the "garbage" laws in Italy are applied with various grades of
strictness according to the area. In Milan, my block got a fine because one
day I threw a lot of old glass medication bottles (and other glass bottles)
in the public can - with their plastic caps on. I paid for the fine, of
course, but the law was *that* strict.
In others parts of Italy the mileage can vary. As strange and particular the
issue may seem, it is one of the things tha make Italian regional realisties
so different from each other.
>> > So basically you tell your readers about DRM so that they make buying
>> > decision?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> <applause>
Well, this was a recent example, but there are others.
http://gamesradar.futuregamer.it/reviews/default.asp?subsectionid=169&articleid=77969&pagetype=2
The end mark is not "5,8" but "5" *and* "8". The "8" was my mark to the
"vanilla" game, the "5" was the mark after considering the protection
scheme. On the magazine we had to publish an additional page of technical
help for those stuck into DRM hell.
We got burned with Bioshock's DRM: our review failed to mention it (don't
know why, I wasn't involved). The result was a "never again" policy by the
editor.
Tom Brown
If I own an XBox 360 and buy a game, I can take that game to my friends
house, who also
has an XBox 360 and play that game with him at his house, along with a bunch
of my buddies.
(Think Madden)
If I buy a book, I can lend it to you to read, you can lend it to Joe to
read etc.
If I have a DVR, which I do have and not only that, was supplied by the
cable company
I use, I can record almost anything that is broadcast on TV. (They charge a
monthly fee for the DVR)
I also have a DVD recorder and a VCR ( yes I still use it) I can record
anything I want.
I didn't create these myself to steal. These were created FOR me to use.
WHY?? If the companies who create the content were so afraid of having
their creations stolen!
What planet have they been living on? This is mind boggling to me.
From that movie Network.."I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it
anymore". (From
my collection of copied movies).
"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.229b389c2a706697989a60@localhost...
Giftzwerg
@tampabay.rr.com says...
> What I don't get about the entertainment business is:
> If I own an XBox 360 and buy a game, I can take that game to my friends
> house, who also
> has an XBox 360 and play that game with him at his house, along with a bunch
> of my buddies.
> (Think Madden)
> If I buy a book, I can lend it to you to read, you can lend it to Joe to
> read etc.
> If I have a DVR, which I do have and not only that, was supplied by the
> cable company
> I use, I can record almost anything that is broadcast on TV. (They charge a
> monthly fee for the DVR)
> I also have a DVD recorder and a VCR ( yes I still use it) I can record
> anything I want.
> I didn't create these myself to steal. These were created FOR me to use.
> WHY?? If the companies who create the content were so afraid of having
> their creations stolen!
You've touched on a fundamental tension in the corporate world. See,
big companies like Sony produce both the hardware that makes digital
copying so easy and convenient and fun *and* the intellectual property
that they never, never, ever want you to copy. So with one hand they
want to sell you a DVD burner, but with the other hand they want to sell
you a DVD that cannot be copied. Adding to their vexation is the fact
that the hardware divisions, last time I looked, were a full order of
magnitude larger in both revenue and profit terms - so guess who's
ultimately holding the whip-hand?
Yep, Apple makes the wonderful iTunes service, which offers me vast
selections of pretty cheap music and free podcasting ... and then
hamstrings me by crippling iTunes so it won't work properly with
anything but an Apple iPod.
> What planet have they been living on? This is mind boggling to me.
> From that movie Network.."I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it
> anymore". (From
> my collection of copied movies).
And again, the worst aspect of this is that *it only hurts the honest
people*.
--
Giftzwerg
***
"Barack Obama, last night in Portland, on Iran: 'They don't pose a
serious threat to us.'
Barack Obama, today, in Billings, Montana, on Iran: 'I've made it clear
for years that the threat from Iran is grave.'
Can someone explain why it is, exactly, that Barack Obama is not a
laughingstock?"
- John Hinderaker
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> And again, the worst aspect of this is that *it only hurts the honest
> people*.
Not so very far from where I live there’s a guy selling pumpkins.
Well, actually he’s not physically selling pumpkins at all as he just
makes 3 piles of small, medium and large pumpkins and puts up a sign
with the prices asking people to drop the money in a box.
That’s right : this guy has figured out that most people will simply
drop the money in the box whether he’s there or not and that it isn’t
worth his time to spend all day next to 3 heaps of pumpkins for those
not willing to pay. As he’s been doing it for as long as I can
remember (assuming it’s a “he” as I’ve never even seen “him”)
I guess he’s making money by having a great service to his customers
(open 24/7) while not worrying about thieves as they could simply go
to his pumpkin field anyway.
Add to this that a stolen pumpkin is a direct loss to him as he could
have sold it to someone else, whereas a pirated copy of a game doesn’t
have an influence on the available stocks when you’re selling games.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
41ab6a...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
Not to mention the fact that he's not only leaving the pumpkins
unprotected, he's leaving the *money box* unprotected.
Even Brad Wardell, presumably, banks his revenue.
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Not to mention the fact that he's not only leaving the pumpkins
> unprotected, he's leaving the *money box* unprotected.
Not really - it's big, padlocked and looks too heavy to move. It has a
simple slit on top - you put the money in and hear it drop. More
secure than SSL :)
But a simple wooden box to put the money in is something which is
common in Sweden where some roads are privately owned and maintained
and where you pay "toll"
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
> simply drop the money in the box whether he’s there or not
> and that it isn’t worth his time to spend all day next to 3 heaps
> of pumpkins for those not willing to pay. As he’s been doing
> it for as long as I can remember (assuming it’s a “he” as
> I’ve never even seen “him”)
This remembers me of a debate I had with some fellow artist about selling
PDF copies of our comic books over the Net. My argument was that a "This is
my comic book, pay it what you want and feel free to download it" would have
gotten 1 euro for comic book more easily than if we had asked ".50
cents/book". The positive "let's give a couple of euros to these creative
guys!" approach having, IMHO, the same probability of happening as the "they
are asking 50 cents for A PDF???" negative one.
We never got to do that (selling comics in PDF form), but sometimes I wonder
about the economic model. It could work well.
BTW, you can find pirated copies of my comics on the Net in PDF form RIGHT
NOW - and somehow I still put bread on my table and sales went up by a
double digit percentage in 2007. Life is strange.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> > That’s right : this guy has figured out that most people will
> > simply drop the money in the box whether he’s there or not
> > and that it isn’t worth his time to spend all day next to 3 heaps
> > of pumpkins for those not willing to pay. As he’s been doing
> > it for as long as I can remember (assuming it’s a “he” as
> > I’ve never even seen “him”)
>
> This remembers me of a debate I had with some fellow artist about selling
> PDF copies of our comic books over the Net.
Which reminds me : CyberStratège is now selling an online English
version of their French magazine. It's an exe file which you have to
execute on your 'puter, not a simple pdf you can read and print.
That's simply wrong.
I can hear the counter-argument that if they made it a pdf everyone
could put it on the 'Net.
Sure. Just like everyone today can simply "share" the exe too. And
just like everyone today who buys the French mag can scan it and put
it online as well. Does this happen ? I dunno - and I don't care as
every 2 months they get my money from the retail issue I buy. The guy
they need to keep happy is me, not the guys downloading the scanned
version.
> BTW, you can find pirated copies of my comics on the Net in PDF form RIGHT
> NOW - and somehow I still put bread on my table and sales went up by a
> double digit percentage in 2007. Life is strange.
That's because posting in here has made you famous ! :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
rec...@hotmail.com says...
This fellow:
http://www.mrexcel.com/pod600.html
... is giving away copies of his new book in .pdf form, and asserted on
Leo Laporte's "Tech Guy" radio / podcast that since he started giving it
away, sales of the printed book have *vastly* increased.
He made essentially the same point most of us have hammered away on for
years now; the only thing that matters is how many books you've actually
sold, and how many free copies are floating around is uninteresting.
All an author cares about is how many people are willing to purchase his
work. If giving it away *increases* this number, then *give it away*.
Big Salad
> On 20 mei, 14:40, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Not to mention the fact that he's not only leaving the pumpkins
>> unprotected, he's leaving the *money box* unprotected.
>
> Not really - it's big, padlocked and looks too heavy to move. It has
> a simple slit on top - you put the money in and hear it drop. More
> secure than SSL :)
But I have actually been to a farm where the cash box itself was left
out. So folks could make change if needed.
Probably wouldn't work so well on the interwebs.
Dirk Gross
That scenario happened to me with Symantec. I tried to install Symantec
Systemworks Pro 2006 one too many times and tripped the "# of installs"
failure. Called them up like I did the year prior when the same thing
happened, only this time they accused me of installing it on too many
computers. Well, duh, I did install it on more than one computer. But
I didn't have it on more than one "at a time"! So, they refused to
activate my software unless I sent them my original CD. Now, what's
that gonna prove? I've registered with them for 10 years straight and
they have my name, address, serial number, and first born on record.
How's that going to tell them if I installed the software on more than
one computer? Result: After 10+ years of buying Norton/Symantec I'll
never purchase anything of theirs again, all because of their new DRM.
And I don't miss them at all.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> That scenario happened to me with Symantec.
It's a scenario that's bound to happen with nearly everyone in the
next couple of years. Once the public's disgusts reaches critical
mass, DRM will go the way of the starforce dodo.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> Once the public's disgusts reaches critical
> mass, DRM will go the way of the starforce dodo.
I bought some utility software last night so I first went to the
website to see what type of security they have in place - no info on
it available - paranoia level going to 6 - yeah, but I really need it
so out comes the ol' CC and a sale is made - I get the message that
"important info" is send to my mail address - paranoia level 8 as I
fear the small print of the arrangement will arrive in my mail box.
To my surprise the mail simply has my serial number and who to contact
in case of problems - hm, paranoia level dropping to 5, but surely
there's a catch as that software is bound to phone home as it
basically is a 30-day trial getting converted to the full app.
So I enter the serial number in the app, expecting my firewall to warn
me of outgoing requests but to my surprise I just see a "thank your
for registering" screen. That's it. A piece of software more expensive
than all my wargame purchases of last year combined and all it's
"protected" with is a Matrix style serial number ?
A piece of software where if you type the name in Google you get over
4 million hits, which is bound to have been hacked/cracked/serialized
a zillion times, which manages to reach version 5 and still be in
business with just a simple serial number and no DRM ?
I know why : because buying it is hassle free - I don't need to worry
about it all as I feel like I own the software. They managed to make
me a happy customer, who is bound to recommend their software to
others.
So before I forget : I was talking about Camtasia 5.1 for screen video
capture & editing. Works great, and no strings attached.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Mike Kreuzer
news:7503428d-8b3a-48a7...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 21 mei, 08:15, "eddyster...@hotmail.com" <eddyster...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Once the public's disgusts reaches critical
>> mass, DRM will go the way of the starforce dodo.
>
> I bought some utility software last night so I first went to the
>
> So before I forget : I was talking about Camtasia 5.1 for screen video
> capture & editing. Works great, and no strings attached.
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
Yeah they're the Snagit guys aren't they, Snagit's pretty good too; use it
at work pretty much every day.
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Yeah they're the Snagit guys aren't they,
Yup
> Snagit's pretty good too; use it
> at work pretty much every day.
For simple screen captures I've created my own little tool - auto-
saves and auto-numbers, dual monitor support and tied to the <Pause/
Break> key which no other application that I know of uses.
Given that in the other thread people are trying to save developers
from re-inventing the wheel here's a developer who *likes* to re-
invent the wheel if the wheel on offer just doesn't do it for him :)
And given the zillion screen capture utilities out there I'd say I'm
not the only one :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Ray O'Hara
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12ec5c92-ccd2-44f5...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On 19 mei, 11:41, "eddyster...@hotmail.com" <eddyster...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> What will happen is the same thing that happened in the music
> industry : people got burned, some complained but most simply said
> "screw this" and never bought a cd again.
I’ve been thinking <WARNING : Danger Ahead>
When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn’t going to run
on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn’t just stop buying cd’s
from the offending “publisher” (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
buying cd’s altogether – from all music companies - because there was
no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
on my car cd player or not.
We’re starting to reach a point where some game publishers might
consider putting “NO DRM” in bold 25 point letters on their webshop
software, lest they’d get the same shunning treatment from gamers
who’ve been burned by DRM
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
feel free to pirate music, the music companies routinely rip off the
artists. i have several friends who have CDs and its a bitch for them to get
royalties. one even encourages everyone to pirate their stuff.
Dirk Gross
My utilities now are Kaspersky Internet Security and Acronis True Image.
Both are better than Symantec with Ghost anyway. And both simply
require typing in a code like a typical Matrix game. Nero is the same
way. I can live with that.
Mike Kreuzer
news:555cac1b-e08d-47ec...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
As someone who's reinvented more than a few wheels himself I know just what
you mean.
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
eddys...@hotmail.com
> feel free to pirate music, the music companies routinely rip off the
> artists. i have several friends who have CDs and its a bitch for them to get
> royalties. one even encourages everyone to pirate their stuff.
eh, I don't - I just stopped bying cd's. As at the time there were no
hassle-free alternatives I just stopped caring about adding stuff to
my music collection at all. It was just routine anyway - I heard a
song on the radio from a new band I thought sounded good, so next time
I passed a music store I'd jump in and buy the album. Hit and miss
sometimes - I gave away more than one cd to friends. The point is the
music industry was assured a couple of hundred bucks a year from me,
but by trying to tell me where and when I could listen to my (not
their) music they lost me.
Capitalism works.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
mcv
> On 19 mei, 11:41, "eddyster...@hotmail.com" <eddyster...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What will happen is the same thing that happened in the music
>> industry : people got burned, some complained but most simply said
>> "screw this" and never bought a cd again.
>
>
> When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn?t going to run
> on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn?t just stop buying cd?s
> from the offending ?publisher? (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
> buying cd?s altogether ? from all music companies - because there was
> no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
> on my car cd player or not.
I still buy CDs despite getting burned a couple of times, but I do check
CDs I buy for copy-protection logos. Usually they're on the outside. In
one particular case there was no logo on the outside but there was one
on the inside, and I took it back to the shop for a refund.
Still, I got burned a couple of times. Occasionally I forget to check,
don't check within a week after getting home, and later discover I can't
put the music on my ipod. It sucks, and for some reason, some really
great music comes with copy protection. Some CDs that I really, really,
really want to have, but cant't, because it's useless to me.
I still like having the real physical CD, but the record companies are
making it really hard for me to do so.
> We?re starting to reach a point where some game publishers might
> consider putting ?NO DRM? in bold 25 point letters on their webshop
> software, lest they?d get the same shunning treatment from gamers
> who?ve been burned by DRM
I just thought exactly the same thing. I think a "NO DRM" logo on safe
games and music would be an excellent idea.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
mcv
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 03:06:57 -0700 (PDT), "eddys...@hotmail.com"
> <eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn?t just stop buying cd?s
>>buying cd?s altogether ? from all music companies - because there was
>>no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
>>on my car cd player or not.
>
> But it does tell you on the outside of the cd case. Any DRM music I
> have seen always says in small print that it contains such software.
*Almost* always. I have encountered one exception. I got a refund.
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> I just thought exactly the same thing. I think a "NO DRM" logo on safe
> games and music would be an excellent idea.
I've got a "no-screwing" logo they could use, but it might be
misunderstood :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Poky <p...@is.cool> wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 May 2008 03:06:57 -0700 (PDT), "eddyster...@hotmail.com"
> > <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn?t going to run
> >>on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn?t just stop buying cd?s
> >>from the offending ?publisher? (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
> >>buying cd?s altogether ? from all music companies - because there was
> >>no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
> >>on my car cd player or not.
>
> > But it does tell you on the outside of the cd case. Any DRM music I
> > have seen always says in small print that it contains such software.
>
> *Almost* always. I have encountered one exception. I got a refund.
Never saw a sticker that said "This CD will run on your home stereo,
but not in your car cd player"
What am I going to do ? Gamble that the DRM system used by <x> on cd
<y> will work ? Some do. All up to that point did. Start posing
questions on some forum to see if my particular make of car cd player
can handle that particular DRM on that particular CD ?
Screw that - this is entertainment money I'm talking about, if I spend
it I want to feel a warm, relaxing glow of excitement and
anticipation, not a nagging feeling that there's a problem lurking in
the shadows.
What entertainment providers of all kinds have learned over time is
that money people spend with them is essentially pocket money, money
which their customers don’t need to spend on essentials. So people
will spend it on whatever takes their fancy, with highest priority
going to the stuff they have the most fun with. Inhibit the fun factor
and the particular kind of entertainment you’re selling goes down a
couple of places on the priority list. Depending on each individual’s
taste it may still be high enough to get a sale from them, but you can
bet the bank you’re missing out on some potential customers where your
product has slipped beyond the fun horizon.
Apart from a particular nutcase I haven’t heard anyone claiming that
DRM doesn’t lower the fun factor – even if they don’t care about it,
it’s still something they’d rather not have. Just ask yourself this
question : “would you rather have <x> with DRM or without it ?” It
ain’t rocket science then to figure out that a “feature” which almost
all of your potential customers would rather not have is something
you’d better have a damn good reason to keep.
And preventing some Russian/Chinese kid on a dollar a week allowance
from playing your game might not be the optimal strategy here.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> As someone who's reinvented more than a few wheels himself I know just what
> you mean.
Speaking of wheels (not really, but just to divert the thread) - as I
understand it now Afrika is getting scaled back - any juicy bits you
care to share about it ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
mcv
> On 22 mei, 10:29, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> Poky <p...@is.cool> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 19 May 2008 03:06:57 -0700 (PDT), "eddyster...@hotmail.com"
>> > <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>When I bought that last music cd which decided it wasn?t going to run
>> >>on my car cd player because of the DRM, I didn?t just stop buying cd?s
>> >>from the offending ?publisher? (Sony) but indiscriminately stopped
>> >>buying cd?s altogether ? from all music companies - because there was
>> >>no way of telling from the outside of the box if it was going to run
>> >>on my car cd player or not.
>>
>> > But it does tell you on the outside of the cd case. Any DRM music I
>> > have seen always says in small print that it contains such software.
>>
>> *Almost* always. I have encountered one exception. I got a refund.
>
> Never saw a sticker that said "This CD will run on your home stereo,
> but not in your car cd player"
I've never seen such a sticker either. The logo is usually on the paper
insert at the back of the CD case, below the list of songs and next to
the copyright statement, although I've also encountered it in other
places. And it doesn't say "this CD will not run in your car", it says
"copy protected" with some small print that probably says it may or may
not work in various CD players. That logo is a good sign that you
shouldn't buy it.
But even in unprotected CDs I've seen various CD players respond in
different ways: I've got an old CD that starts with a data track
(containing a music video and some background info; the first CD I
ever saw that had extra data on it), and my big CD-changer plays the
raw binary data thinking it's music. Other CD players are quiet for
the duration of the data track (which is better than noise, but not
optimal) or skip it entirely (which would be best).
> What am I going to do ? Gamble that the DRM system used by <x> on cd
> <y> will work ? Some do. All up to that point did. Start posing
> questions on some forum to see if my particular make of car cd player
> can handle that particular DRM on that particular CD ?
My advice is to boycott the DRMed CDs. They are recognisable, and you
should be able to get a refund when they aren't.
> Screw that - this is entertainment money I'm talking about, if I spend
> it I want to feel a warm, relaxing glow of excitement and
> anticipation, not a nagging feeling that there's a problem lurking in
> the shadows.
That's a very insightful point: all this DRM hassle sucks the joy out
of something that should be all about fun. The publishers are hurting
their market on a far deeper level than just the "pirated versions
are superior" way. Never in the history of mankind has the entertainment
industry as a whole been as big as it is today, yet somehow the people
making the most money from it seem to be opposed to fun in general.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> eddyster...@hotmail.com <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> My advice is to boycott the DRMed CDs. They are recognisable, and you
> should be able to get a refund when they aren't.
Sure, but half the fun was saying to myself : gotta remember that
songname/singer/group for when I next drop into a music store. As I
said : anticipation. Knowing there's a good chance that once inside
the store I'll discover the album is DRM'ed sucks the joy right out of
the anticipation part. And is time wasted to boot.
> > Screw that - this is entertainment money I'm talking about, if I spend
> > it I want to feel a warm, relaxing glow of excitement and
> > anticipation, not a nagging feeling that there's a problem lurking in
> > the shadows.
>
> That's a very insightful point: all this DRM hassle sucks the joy out
> of something that should be all about fun. The publishers are hurting
> their market on a far deeper level than just the "pirated versions
> are superior" way.
Exactly. As the "feel good about it" was lost, I lost the incentive to
buy CD's - even the ones without DRM.
Games are a bit higher than music on my priority list so I do still
make the distinction between DRM'ed games and others but I guess that
if over half of the new wargames getting released were DRM'ed I'd
simply turn my back on computer wargaming as well - I've got a good
group for tabletop gaming and there's always Vassal.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
says...
> > Never saw a sticker that said "This CD will run on your home stereo,
> > but not in your car cd player"
>
> I've never seen such a sticker either. The logo is usually on the paper
> insert at the back of the CD case, below the list of songs and next to
> the copyright statement, although I've also encountered it in other
> places. And it doesn't say "this CD will not run in your car", it says
> "copy protected" with some small print that probably says it may or may
> not work in various CD players. That logo is a good sign that you
> shouldn't buy it.
The missive I usually see is, "this disc contains technology to prevent
copying." The problem is obvious; the naive user goes, "Who cares? I
just wanna play it. I'm not interested in copying it."
But a truthful blurb would read, "this disc contains technology that may
not only prevent playing it in some / many / most players, but may also
load unwanted software onto your PC and compromise the security of any
system you place it in."
> But even in unprotected CDs I've seen various CD players respond in
> different ways: I've got an old CD that starts with a data track
> (containing a music video and some background info; the first CD I
> ever saw that had extra data on it), and my big CD-changer plays the
> raw binary data thinking it's music. Other CD players are quiet for
> the duration of the data track (which is better than noise, but not
> optimal) or skip it entirely (which would be best).
Which is why even the disc I buy get run through AnyDVD before I do
anything else. What a lovely and brilliant program. Strips off
*everything* but the content, leaving me with exactly the thing I
wanted; the product I bought. No advertising, no menus, no protections,
no putting little "circleslashes" on my screen to indicate that I may
*NOT* press the fastforward button to dash past something that
disinterests me. No more hilarious, impotent "FBI Warnings".
Hahahahaha. Fuck you, Sony.
> > What am I going to do ? Gamble that the DRM system used by <x> on cd
> > <y> will work ? Some do. All up to that point did. Start posing
> > questions on some forum to see if my particular make of car cd player
> > can handle that particular DRM on that particular CD ?
>
> My advice is to boycott the DRMed CDs. They are recognisable, and you
> should be able to get a refund when they aren't.
But I think this is Eddy's point. These are *entertainment* products,
and I can't think of anything *less* "entertaining" than fiddle-fucking
with the product return department at Best Buy. Oh, gee. What fun.
Now I get to drive across down the wrangle with some pimple-faced
douchebag over a $11 thing that I was supposed to enjoy.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
> > Screw that - this is entertainment money I'm talking about, if I spend
> > it I want to feel a warm, relaxing glow of excitement and
> > anticipation, not a nagging feeling that there's a problem lurking in
> > the shadows.
>
> That's a very insightful point: all this DRM hassle sucks the joy out
> of something that should be all about fun. The publishers are hurting
> their market on a far deeper level than just the "pirated versions
> are superior" way. Never in the history of mankind has the entertainment
> industry as a whole been as big as it is today, yet somehow the people
> making the most money from it seem to be opposed to fun in general.
What we really need is a *brutal* reappraisal of copyright laws, with an
eye to getting things into the public domain after a reasonable amount
of time for the artist to profit - not this fucking stupid system we've
got now when some corporate entity can hold the "copyright" on something
a guy who's been moldering away in a grave for fifty years produced in
1960.
It's long past time to call bullshit on such things. Firstly, we should
make it a law that copyrights are not transferable. Secondly, they
should expire promptly after a reasonable amount of time - a year? - has
passed.
I mean, come now, folks; copyrights last ten times longer than fucking
*patents*!?!?!?!?! On what Bizzarro planet does *that* make sense?!?!
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> But I think this is Eddy's point. These are *entertainment* products,
Yup.
Over the years I’ve (co)-organized a number of events to get some
money in the bank for the local youth movement. The trick is : make
sure the entrance barrier for people is as low as possible, make it a
free event if possible – but make sure there are plenty of
opportunities for people to spend some of the cash they’re pre-
disposed to spending anyway as they are there to support that
organization.
So have a donation box, sell pancakes for a reasonable price, have a
well-stocked bar, some music and in general make it worry-free.
Example : If you organize a bike-ride make sure people know there’s
going to be a flying bike-doctor just a phone call away, have a very
short circuit as well as a long, organize on-site caretakers for kids
who are too young to ride a bike so their parents can enjoy a ride
without having to worry if their little one can manage the distance.
And communicate all of this up-front. If the weather holds success is
guaranteed. Done it, seen so much cash flowing from wallets you
wouldn’t believe it.
And then I see companies shooting themselves in both feet with a
howitzer by doing the exact opposite, worrying about the guy who
arrives at that free bike-ride, does the tour and goes home without
spending a dime. Yeah, we lost a lot of sleep worrying about those
guys – not.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Mike Kreuzer
news:b5a57cf7-44f3-4d4f...@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Juicy tidbits ... juicy tidbits ... hmmm. Maybe. Soon. <g>
(And I'm away the next three or four days so don't take the lack of an
immediate reply as anything significant!)
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
mcv
> On 22 mei, 12:49, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> eddyster...@hotmail.com <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My advice is to boycott the DRMed CDs. They are recognisable, and you
>> should be able to get a refund when they aren't.
>
> Sure, but half the fun was saying to myself : gotta remember that
> songname/singer/group for when I next drop into a music store. As I
> said : anticipation. Knowing there's a good chance that once inside
> the store I'll discover the album is DRM'ed sucks the joy right out of
> the anticipation part. And is time wasted to boot.
True. That happened to me with a couple of albums. I'm still bummed
that I don't have them. And the risk to record companies is that I'll
eventually turn to the internet to download them for free. And once
I'm doing that, I'm bound to find lots of other good music there that
I also like, despite it being for sale on safe CDs in my local record
store.
So why exactly are record companies pushing me towards what they
consider piracy?
And then good record companies that don't use DRM will suffer because
the bad ones undermine the public's faith in CDs.
>> > Screw that - this is entertainment money I'm talking about, if I spend
>> > it I want to feel a warm, relaxing glow of excitement and
>> > anticipation, not a nagging feeling that there's a problem lurking in
>> > the shadows.
>>
>> That's a very insightful point: all this DRM hassle sucks the joy out
>> of something that should be all about fun. The publishers are hurting
>> their market on a far deeper level than just the "pirated versions
>> are superior" way.
>
> Exactly. As the "feel good about it" was lost, I lost the incentive to
> buy CD's - even the ones without DRM.
>
> Games are a bit higher than music on my priority list so I do still
> make the distinction between DRM'ed games and others but I guess that
> if over half of the new wargames getting released were DRM'ed I'd
> simply turn my back on computer wargaming as well - I've got a good
> group for tabletop gaming and there's always Vassal.
But then we let allow others to destroy our hobby. I think there is
sufficient demand for DRM-free games to turn it into a seperate market
if necessary.
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> So why exactly are record companies pushing me towards what they
> consider piracy?
Ok, pet theory here – don’t laugh too loud
Every company in every imaginable type of business makes mistakes –
the thing that is the deciding factor in detecting they’ve made a
mistake is the immediacy of the repercussions.
Examples with climbing degrees of immediacy of repercussions :
- My bakery recently started to ask an additional 5 cents for a
plastic bag – given that I usually stand there with 8-9 euro worth of
products makes this additional charge look like a move by Ebenezer
Scrooge. That it’s not just me was made clear to me when the sales
lady I’ve known for years started to complain to me that her boss
wouldn’t budge on the 5 cents while she visibly sees sales dropping.
As the repercussions to sales is immediate I’m pretty confident this 5-
cent policy won’t last.
- A car manufacturer which shall remain nameless managed to launch a
new model of a car in a country where over half of the new cars sold
were diesels without the possibility to get a diesel engine. It took
them a year to notice the lousy sales numbers and correct it.
- A family park had to cut cost and they decided not to introduce new
rides anymore. Attendance remained high the first year, dropped a
little bit in the second and then dramatically in the third.
Now we have music publishers introducing DRM in a market where their
sales numbers were already under pressure. Their sales numbers drop
some more, but it’s not immediately visible in the books if that is
due to increased piracy or because legit customers decide not to buy
the DRM’ed stuff. As the success of DRM-free music stores has shown
now it was the latter, but it took them over 5 years to figure that
out, and some still aren’t convinced.
So, turning this back to wargaming : SES as a company is pretty recent
has no reference numbers to determine if DRM is a good idea or not,
but Battlefront has. CM:SF isn’t as successful as it’s predecessors,
but that’s easily explained away by pointing to the less popular
modern setting, the changed market and the botched release and had
nothing to do with the DRM – right ? Hubert Cater has publicly stated
sales numbers for Strategic Command 2 were a bit disappointing – but
that was because of the move away from hexes and had nothing to do
with the DRM – right ?
My point here is that none of the wargame publishers using DRM has yet
received irrefutable proof that the DRM is hurting their sales – just
anecdotal evidence from a handful of posters on their forum, so it
gets rationalized away, the blame is put on other factors. Now, those
other factors certainly play a role as well, but they’re betting the
long term financial viability of their company on their assumption DRM
is helping them make additional sales while the anecdotal evidence
it’s not is steadily growing. I mean, I wouldn’t introduce DRM in my
business if it has proven to be a Bad Idea ™ in a closely related
business like selling music cd’s, but that’s just me.
> But then we let allow others to destroy our hobby. I think there is
> sufficient demand for DRM-free games to turn it into a seperate market
> if necessary.
My point here is that there are alternatives, and that a number of
people will turn to these if pc wargaming becomes too much of a
hassle, maybe resulting in the loss of critical mass which makes
developing computer wargames economically unviable – even for those
companies which are DRM-free.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
6c0416...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
> And then I see companies shooting themselves in both feet with a
> howitzer by doing the exact opposite, worrying about the guy who
> arrives at that free bike-ride, does the tour and goes home without
> spending a dime. Yeah, we lost a lot of sleep worrying about those
> guys not.
<shrug>
Some folks are just paranoid-clueless and would rather twenty people
decided to forego their Nazi-rules bike ride than one guy get something
for nothing.
It just irks the shit outta some of these developers that somebody -
somewhere - might be playing DISTANT GUNS without paying for it. I
think that with minimally-protected wargame products it's far more
likely that there will be people paying for it without (much) playing
it.
--
Giftzwerg
***
"Now I've heard some say that counting Florida and Michigan would be
changing the rules. I say that not counting Florida and Michigan is
changing a central governing rule of this country, that whenever we can
understand the clear intent of the voters, their vote should be
counted."
- Senator Hillary Clinton
"Ah. Barack Obama. 'Selected, not elected,' eh?"
- Giftzwerg
mcv
> companies which are DRM-free.
Perhaps that's why a company like Stardock makes such a big point of
their lack of DRM: as an attempt to draw in those people who are wary
of all computer games because they don't want the hassle of DRM.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> eddyster...@hotmail.com <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On 23 mei, 09:40, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> >> But then we let allow others to destroy our hobby. I think there is
> >> sufficient demand for DRM-free games to turn it into a seperate market
> >> if necessary.
>
> > My point here is that there are alternatives, and that a number of
> > people will turn to these if pc wargaming becomes too much of a
> > hassle, maybe resulting in the loss of critical mass which makes
> > developing computer wargames economically unviable ? even for those
> > companies which are DRM-free.
>
> Perhaps that's why a company like Stardock makes such a big point of
> their lack of DRM: as an attempt to draw in those people who are wary
> of all computer games because they don't want the hassle of DRM.
If “No DRM” becomes a selling point, and it sure looks more and more
like it is, then it’s case closed on the question.
It would also explain why our dear friend Mario is so angry at Brad
Wardell and Stardock – it sorta pulls the chair from under his
precious belief that DRM enhances sales.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
mcv
> On 23 mei, 14:29, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> eddyster...@hotmail.com <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 23 mei, 09:40, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>> >> But then we let allow others to destroy our hobby. I think there is
>> >> sufficient demand for DRM-free games to turn it into a seperate market
>> >> if necessary.
>>
>> > My point here is that there are alternatives, and that a number of
>> > people will turn to these if pc wargaming becomes too much of a
>> > hassle, maybe resulting in the loss of critical mass which makes
>> > developing computer wargames economically unviable ? even for those
>> > companies which are DRM-free.
>>
>> Perhaps that's why a company like Stardock makes such a big point of
>> their lack of DRM: as an attempt to draw in those people who are wary
>> of all computer games because they don't want the hassle of DRM.
>
> like it is, then it?s case closed on the question.
>
> It would also explain why our dear friend Mario is so angry at Brad
> precious belief that DRM enhances sales.
And it explains why a few years ago StarForce wasn't all that happy
about Stardock's publicity stunt either. However, "No DRM" being a
selling point for one company or one audience doesn't automatically
make it a selling point for everybody. But I have heard about a lot
of people who bought a Stardock game mainly because of this publicity.
I'm sure it's making them extra sales, but that's also because Brad
is milking the "No DRM" for all it's worth.
Anyway, I hope more companies follow their example. And perhaps the
companies who were already down that road without shouting it at
everybody should also give a bit more attention to their DRMlessness.
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> And it explains why a few years ago StarForce wasn't all that happy
> about Stardock's publicity stunt either. However, "No DRM" being a
> selling point for one company or one audience doesn't automatically
> make it a selling point for everybody.
Granted, but it's getting harder and harder to refute that having DRM
is becoming a no-selling point for a lot of people.
Why is the president of Battlefront otherwise lying through his teeth,
trying to convince potential customers that "everybody is doing it" ?
http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000596;p=1#000014
"Battlefront has adopted such a system very late (only in 2006, after
most other publishers were using one already)"
SES will be glad to hear that they've suddenly become "most other
publishers" :)
Also notice he locked the thread immediatly after his post ...
> Anyway, I hope more companies follow their example. And perhaps the
> companies who were already down that road without shouting it at
> everybody should also give a bit more attention to their DRMlessness.
Yup.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
MJB
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8daa64c-4f53-4add...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 23 mei, 15:43, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>> And it explains why a few years ago StarForce wasn't all that happy
>> about Stardock's publicity stunt either. However, "No DRM" being a
>> selling point for one company or one audience doesn't automatically
>> make it a selling point for everybody.
>
> Granted, but it's getting harder and harder to refute that having DRM
> is becoming a no-selling point for a lot of people.
>
> Why is the president of Battlefront otherwise lying through his teeth,
> trying to convince potential customers that "everybody is doing it" ?
What I found most enlightening was the statement that all you were buying
when you purchased a game from Battlefront was a license to use their source
code. I think that was the first time I'd ever seen managment in a gaming
company admit publically that they still owned the game they 'sold' you.
And by extension have the right to revoke your license when they see fit.
<shrug>
The last Battlefront product I bought was the N. African version of Combat
Mission. And apparently that's the way it's going to stay.
--
MJB
Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
KG_Jag
Paradox version. BTW its now even more clearly the better choice with
copies out there for under $8. But if I am reading their boards
correctly, Battlefront will not have any distribution partners in the
near future for its upcoming CM x 2 titles.
So what they are likely to be offering is a mediocre half fish/half
fowl World War II title available only in DRM flavor. It will be
interesting to watch the reaction of their customers and potential
customers. Then we see how this will compare to the sales and
customer feedback of its CM x 1 titles
Bloodstar
If “No DRM” becomes a selling point, and it sure looks more and more
like it is, then it’s case closed on the question.
It would also explain why our dear friend Mario is so angry at Brad
Wardell and Stardock – it sorta pulls the chair from under his
precious belief that DRM enhances sales.
****
LOL I would need some informer to let me know when you mention me as I
cannot go through all posts to find this.
After tons of my posts you are still lying.
I never said that DRM or no DRM enhance or not enhance sales. I SAID that
GOOD GAMES enhance sales. I am not angry at Brad because he is not endorsing
DRM. I am actually not PRO DRM at all! I am pro good games not that crap
that you constantly pulling out about DRM. You are boring like Brad as well.
Same trap - we are not speaking about the games but about DRM or copy
protection!
I will write this as I am in the middle of writing AAR so you are taking my
precious time now! lol
I am "angry" to Brad Wardell because he have pulled magnificent stunt on
customer SHEEPS and that great marketing ploy!
He is only after profit - sleazy bastard. But clever bastard - let the
mantra about his honest deeds spread like fire by customer sheeps! lol
DRM will not go away. Maybe in your wet dreams. Of course that this will
bring money to Brad Wardell and even Chris Taylor as he signed Demigod with
Stardock.
I just don't like the way they market their games. Hey, let's ride on this
customer anger toward DRM and sell a ton of our games. Well, I just say -
sleazy bastard who cannot miss one opportunity to trumpet all over Internet
about his no copy protection thing. Brad - you are boring, sleazy and seen
through! :)
So Eddy you have been proven to twist my words, I don't know for how long
you will continue doing this?
I am not pro DRM I am just not seeing them as my born enemy like you guys,
that's all. If game is good - I will buy it. But I am not falling on that
marketing ploys that Brad Wardell is doing.
You are all wrong in thinking that DRM will go away just like that. Well,
time will prove that this is constant battle between publishers and pirates
and publishers will persist on this like pirates will persist on cracking
the game!
So your battle against DRM is futile in that manner that you will miss some
great games - but hey bank account of that sleazy pig will get bigger thanks
to you! lol
Over and out.
Mario
Bloodstar
What if suddenly ALL companies accept Brad Wardell's model and don't put any
DRM just cd key - with many patches that must be cracked etc...
WE ARE BACK AT START LINE! LOL
Then SUDDENLY his marketing PLOY will stop working! lol
Back to starting line - only good games sell no matter DRM (or bad games
with TONS of marketing on console- even that not on long period, word of
mouth!).
So Brad Wardell should shut the fuck up - and speak about games not fucking
DRM or copy protection! That's why he is sleazy!
And DRM or no DRM - we must make a clear distinction here. Brad Wardell sold
300000 Gal Civ II and THAT is more mainstream numbers!
Wargaming companies - yes should not use DRM but simple CD KEY's like
Matrix - because there are people like YOU who boycott their products! And
pirates don't bother so much to crack patches.
In mainstream market dilemma of DRM or no DRM will always be more present!
You can bet on this!
And that's why Brad Wardell is trumpeting all over about his NO DRM -
because market is bigger and his mantra will reach bigger audience how his
games has NO DRM. When you get to the bones - you just see that it is plain
marketing ploy using customers anger toward DRM. It will not make DRM go
away in mainstream market.
And I don't think that DRM in mainstream games is lowering sales as our dear
Gifty have bought Bioshock WITH DRM on it.
SIMS 3 - if it will have DRM I really doubt that it will make sales lower on
the contrary - it will up sales on the would be pirates but don't want too
much hassle with torrents, cracks etc... and on that SEGMENT publishers are
counting!
As Brad Wardell is counting on those angered by DRM - at the same time
mainstream publishers would get some sales due to DRM -when I see numbers
that DRM is really lowering sales I will believe that. Until that you can
just speculate as ussual.
Auf wiedersehn,
Mario
mcv
>
> LOL I would need some informer to let me know when you mention me as I
> cannot go through all posts to find this.
Perhaps you need a kibo script.
> I am "angry" to Brad Wardell because he have pulled magnificent stunt on
> customer SHEEPS and that great marketing ploy!
> He is only after profit - sleazy bastard. But clever bastard - let the
> mantra about his honest deeds spread like fire by customer sheeps! lol
What's sleazy about giving customers what they want? Ofcourse he wants
to make a living, but he does it by supporting his games better than
most other publishers, and by listening to customers and giving them
what they want.
> I just don't like the way they market their games. Hey, let's ride on this
> customer anger toward DRM and sell a ton of our games. Well, I just say -
> sleazy bastard who cannot miss one opportunity to trumpet all over Internet
> about his no copy protection thing. Brad - you are boring, sleazy and seen
> through! :)
A lot of people really like his games. If you don't that's okay, but bore
us with bullshit like this. You're the one who's boring, Brad is the one
who is selling very popular games. Brad is pro good games, and he's serving
a much neglected market, whereas you seem to be mostly pro-bullshit.
mcv
> One more thing... To illustrate how Brad Wardell is sleazy bastard:
>
> What if suddenly ALL companies accept Brad Wardell's model and don't put any
> DRM just cd key - with many patches that must be cracked etc...
>
> WE ARE BACK AT START LINE! LOL
>
> Then SUDDENLY his marketing PLOY will stop working! lol
> Back to starting line - only good games sell no matter DRM (or bad games
> with TONS of marketing on console- even that not on long period, word of
> mouth!).
Isn't that exactly what we want? Good games without DRM?
> So Brad Wardell should shut the fuck up - and speak about games not fucking
> DRM or copy protection! That's why he is sleazy!
Why should he shut up? If I understand you correctly, he's working towards
a world we all want: good games without DRM.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Bloodstar <george.washing...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > I just don't like the way they market their games. Hey, let's ride on this
> > customer anger toward DRM and sell a ton of our games.
> A lot of people really like his games. If you don't that's okay, but bore
> us with bullshit like this.
LOL - here's Mario publicly admitting there's a *huge* market catering
to gamers who utterly detest DRM - a far cry from the days when he
claimed only a few malcontents on Uselessnet cared about it :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
Perhaps you need a brain.
> What's sleazy about giving customers what they want? Ofcourse he wants
> to make a living, but he does it by supporting his games better than
> most other publishers, and by listening to customers and giving them
> what they want.
Look, I don't know what you are? You came to this ng to defend Brad Wardell?
Fanboy?
I haven't seen you discussing wargames.
One more thing - I see that you purposely or not are pretending that you are
dumb and that you don't understand.
Take your fanboyism then to Stardock forums and kiss Brad Wardell ass there.
Customer wants GOOD GAMES. In majority they want good games. They will not
burn American flag in front of Whitehouse BECAUSE someone have put DRM on
their games. Publisher CAN do that or NOT. They have a option. And you don't
listening what I say.
And now of course that fanboy such as yourself doesn't see anything sleazy
in Brad Wardells doing but I am seeing it. If you have problem with that -
well that is your problem!
> A lot of people really like his games. If you don't that's okay, but bore
> us with bullshit like this. You're the one who's boring, Brad is the one
> who is selling very popular games. Brad is pro good games, and he's
> serving
> a much neglected market, whereas you seem to be mostly pro-bullshit.
Look monkey head:),
I am here on this ng many many years and if you don't like what I post I
will sent you flying or packing - like many others. :) Put me in the filter
or I will put you in the filter but you have no right telling me that I am
the one who needs to stop writing about that. I didn't wrote 1 / 1000000000
in corelattion of you suckup fanboys of Brad or himself about DRM. So give
me a break!
About his games - I will buy that game with fantasy setting - that they
make, I repeat I don't have anything personally against Brad or Stardock but
I don't like they way he market his games and I called that sleazy and will
call it as I see fit. You are not trying to understand anything but you are
like a blind parrot like any other stupid fanboy and don't want to see the
truth. So I am not telling bullshit. And don't turn this like I am against
his supposedly good games! Moron!
Turn on your brain for a start and your nazi tactic will not work here.
Mario
Bloodstar
> to gamers who utterly detest DRM - a far cry from the days when he
> claimed only a few malcontents on Uselessnet cared about it :)
It's based on proportion of the market. Of course that when we talked about
2000 games that wargames sell (?) then that is a LOT different then 300000
that Brad is selling. Apples and oranges.
You are comparing mainstream market (they call it niche but compared to
wargames is mainsteam!) with wargaming!
But at least someone will learn something from my words!
Mario
Bloodstar
>>
>> What if suddenly ALL companies accept Brad Wardell's model and don't put
>> any
>> DRM just cd key - with many patches that must be cracked etc...
>>
>> WE ARE BACK AT START LINE! LOL
>>
>> Then SUDDENLY his marketing PLOY will stop working! lol
>> Back to starting line - only good games sell no matter DRM (or bad games
>> with TONS of marketing on console- even that not on long period, word of
>> mouth!).
>
> Isn't that exactly what we want? Good games without DRM?
LOL
You are really EXTREMELY NAIVE!!!!!
In what world do you live? With fanboys like this Brad Wardell should not
worry at all. :)
He know that they will not listen to him and that's important part of his
PLOY. To like give "advice" to publishers to stop using DRM. In the eyes of
the public he then get's some righteous, Robin Hood etc. apperance. In
reality he know really well that DRM will not go away and that's why all he
really wants to get money of those angered by DRM on big market that could
be a lot. Free marketing as well.
Yes, we want good games but you and me will be long dead and DRM will be
around still so that is futile fight. In the future DRM can just improve not
go backwards!
Unfortunately but that is the truth so better accept it.
>> So Brad Wardell should shut the fuck up - and speak about games not
>> fucking
>> DRM or copy protection! That's why he is sleazy!
>
> Why should he shut up? If I understand you correctly, he's working towards
> a world we all want: good games without DRM.
hahahaha.... See above! That will happen - NEVER. But just as I said - even
he know that pretty well.
Mario
mcv
>
>> What's sleazy about giving customers what they want? Ofcourse he wants
>> to make a living, but he does it by supporting his games better than
>> most other publishers, and by listening to customers and giving them
>> what they want.
>
> Look, I don't know what you are? You came to this ng to defend Brad Wardell?
Did you come here to attack him?
> Fanboy?
For giving him credit for caring about gamers? I haven't bought any of his
gaes in years, and even GalCiv 1 wasn't quite my cup of tea, but I do
appreciate that he's a gamer who got into the game publishing business
simply because he loves games. He had a perfectly profitable business
not publishing games, yet he wanted to do something with games, and
focused on some of the things he cared about, like better AI for turn-
ased strategy games, and not having a CD check (while other publishers
were moving towards more stringent DRM). I appreciate it when someone
does what he cares about, instead of blindly focusing on making as much
money as possible. Brad has a vision, and it's a good one. He's one of
the few people in the gaming businness I really respect, and I don't
like it when nutcases like you talk out of their ass.
> I haven't seen you discussing wargames.
I haven't seen you discussing wargames either. Could be that's because
I don't read every thread here. I only read what looks like it's of
interest to me. Who are you to criticise my contributions to this
newsgroup, limited though they may be?
> One more thing - I see that you purposely or not are pretending that you are
> dumb and that you don't understand.
> Take your fanboyism then to Stardock forums and kiss Brad Wardell ass there.
Why don't you move to your own private mailinglist where you can feel
good about yourself without being confronted by facts and opinions you
might not agree with? I've got nothing to contribute on Stardock forums,
I do have something to contribute in discussions like this one.
> Customer wants GOOD GAMES. In majority they want good games. They will not
> burn American flag in front of Whitehouse BECAUSE someone have put DRM on
> their games. Publisher CAN do that or NOT. They have a option. And you don't
> listening what I say.
I don't listening what you say? Yes, publishers can choose to put DRM on
their games or not. A growing number of people want them to choose not
to put DRM on their games because DRM in a pain in the ass, and it often
sucks the joy out of games that might otherwise be a lot of fun.
> And now of course that fanboy such as yourself doesn't see anything sleazy
> in Brad Wardells doing but I am seeing it. If you have problem with that -
> well that is your problem!
You see sleaze in someone doing what he cares about yet listening to his
customers, and you don't see anything sleazy in publishers treating their
customers like criminals?
>> A lot of people really like his games. If you don't that's okay, but bore
>> us with bullshit like this. You're the one who's boring, Brad is the one
>> who is selling very popular games. Brad is pro good games, and he's
>> serving
>> a much neglected market, whereas you seem to be mostly pro-bullshit.
>
> Look monkey head:),
>
> I am here on this ng many many years and if you don't like what I post I
> will sent you flying or packing - like many others.
I'm very interested in how you're planning to do that. Your only power is
over your own killfile.
> About his games - I will buy that game with fantasy setting - that they
> make, I repeat I don't have anything personally against Brad or Stardock but
> I don't like they way he market his games and I called that sleazy and will
> call it as I see fit.
As do I. You're free to like whatever games you like, and hate everything
else, but realise that what you call sleazy is what I call a visionary
gamer who got the opportunity to make a living doing what he loved and
took it, without losing touch with the gamers community. You may not
appreciate people like that, but I do.
> Turn on your brain for a start and your nazi tactic will not work here.
Excuse me? You're the one who wants to silence opinions you don't agree
with.
mcv
>>> One more thing... To illustrate how Brad Wardell is sleazy bastard:
>>>
>>> What if suddenly ALL companies accept Brad Wardell's model and don't put
>>> any
>>> DRM just cd key - with many patches that must be cracked etc...
>>>
>>> WE ARE BACK AT START LINE! LOL
>>>
>>> Then SUDDENLY his marketing PLOY will stop working! lol
>>> Back to starting line - only good games sell no matter DRM (or bad games
>>> with TONS of marketing on console- even that not on long period, word of
>>> mouth!).
>>
>> Isn't that exactly what we want? Good games without DRM?
>
> LOL
> You are really EXTREMELY NAIVE!!!!!
Hey, you're the one presenting this scenario, you know. I know it's naive
to take you seriously, but is it that bad to give you the benefit of the
doubt for once? I guess I won't be making that mistake again.
Anyway, I was just pointing out a hole in your argument. I'm fully aware
that there will always remain destructive idiots in business. That seems
to be how business works.
> In what world do you live? With fanboys like this Brad Wardell should not
> worry at all. :)
Yet I haven't bought any of his games in ages.
> He know that they will not listen to him and that's important part of his
> PLOY. To like give "advice" to publishers to stop using DRM. In the eyes of
> the public he then get's some righteous, Robin Hood etc. apperance. In
> reality he know really well that DRM will not go away and that's why all he
> really wants to get money of those angered by DRM on big market that could
> be a lot. Free marketing as well.
He sees something wrong, he says so, *and* he puts his money where his
mouth is by following his own advice. What's so wrong about that?
Originally, around the time of Galactic Civilizations 1, it was just
about the CD check. It annoyed him as a gamer, so he made sure his games
wouldn't have it. In the years since, almost every other publisher has
gone overboard with even more invasive DRM, and he criticises them for
hurting their own market, while at the same time proving that you can
make a profit without hurting your customers' enjoyment. How can you not
respect that?
> Yes, we want good games but you and me will be long dead and DRM will be
> around still so that is futile fight.
Not at all. We vote with our dollars (or euros, as the case may be), and
if we pay for good games without DRM, then there will be good games
without DRM. Ofcourse as long as there are people paying for games with
DRM, there will also be games with DRM. That's how the market works, and
we're part of it.
> In the future DRM can just improve not go backwards!
From my perspective, DRM *is* a step backwards. It's stupid and destructive,
for no real gain.
> Unfortunately but that is the truth so better accept it.
There's no reason at all to accept this, because there are better
alternatives possible.
Bloodstar
> if we pay for good games without DRM, then there will be good games
> without DRM. Ofcourse as long as there are people paying for games with
> DRM, there will also be games with DRM. That's how the market works, and
> we're part of it.
Hmmm, I erased some pathetic as it would erupt into big flame so let's
concentrate on most important thing.
Now you said it... My main objections is that I will not boycott good games
with DRM no matter what. A horde of antiDRM zealots cannot persuade me to do
that.
I have read many comments of people at Stardock forum and many of them
bought the game just to push that non DRM argument, maybe some didn't even
wanted to play the game which would be really shame.
Other than that we are again back at square one - I will not boycott games
with DRM. I will boycott lousy games or even games where you cannot first
play demo (I've got burned so many times before...).
So DRM is here to stay, and is not going anywhere. You will see how this ng
will erupt in no buy talkings when Jutland from SES will be released. And I
will buy it same day.
I am interested in that historical period and want to play it.
>> In the future DRM can just improve not go backwards!
>
> From my perspective, DRM *is* a step backwards. It's stupid and
> destructive,
> for no real gain.
That was also War in Iraq and Americans anyway have sank to the neck in that
sand.
>> Unfortunately but that is the truth so better accept it.
>
> There's no reason at all to accept this, because there are better
> alternatives possible.
So you will boycott good games with DRM? LOL
Eddy Sterckx school no doubt.
Mario
Bloodstar
>> Wardell?
>
> Did you come here to attack him?
No at all.
>> Fanboy?
>
> For giving him credit for caring about gamers? I haven't bought any of his
> gaes in years, and even GalCiv 1 wasn't quite my cup of tea, but I do
> appreciate that he's a gamer who got into the game publishing business
> simply because he loves games. He had a perfectly profitable business
> not publishing games, yet he wanted to do something with games, and
> focused on some of the things he cared about, like better AI for turn-
> ased strategy games, and not having a CD check (while other publishers
> were moving towards more stringent DRM). I appreciate it when someone
> does what he cares about, instead of blindly focusing on making as much
> money as possible. Brad has a vision, and it's a good one. He's one of
> the few people in the gaming businness I really respect, and I don't
> like it when nutcases like you talk out of their ass.
Nutcases are you... I was gaming journalist who personally met my heroes
from gaming past - most of them so don't be pathetic and stop writing post
that wanna makes us burst into tears LOL... back to the point I met Sid
Meier, Peter Molineux (and made interview with him), John Cutter (splendid
game designer, one of best, Betrayal at Krondor was his game, Cinemaware),
Steve Meretzky (who have made text based adventures in times when you peed
in your bed), Jeff Tunnell (ex Dynamix), and HUNDREDS of game makers as well
beside this!
Compared with Brad those guys are wonderful and I am sure that they will
never perform cheap marketing ploys like our dear Brad is doing. They talk
about games they make. They are not perforiming play just to ruin
competition and make bigger profits for themselves. They are visionaries and
Brad is clown compared with them.
Sid Meier for example - Brad is nothing at all compared to him. He have made
something for computer games which Brad will NEVER achieve. NEVER.
>> I haven't seen you discussing wargames.
>
> I haven't seen you discussing wargames either. Could be that's because
> I don't read every thread here. I only read what looks like it's of
> interest to me. Who are you to criticise my contributions to this
> newsgroup, limited though they may be?
Oh, I am sorry Your Highness :o)))
>> One more thing - I see that you purposely or not are pretending that you
>> are
>> dumb and that you don't understand.
>> Take your fanboyism then to Stardock forums and kiss Brad Wardell ass
>> there.
>
> Why don't you move to your own private mailinglist where you can feel
> good about yourself without being confronted by facts and opinions you
> might not agree with? I've got nothing to contribute on Stardock forums,
> I do have something to contribute in discussions like this one.
LOL
OK. You tell your part and I will tell mine. Democracy. We don't need to
agree but let's be at least constructive. I will respect your opinion so
long as you respect mine, no more, no less.
> I don't listening what you say? Yes, publishers can choose to put DRM on
> their games or not. A growing number of people want them to choose not
> to put DRM on their games because DRM in a pain in the ass, and it often
> sucks the joy out of games that might otherwise be a lot of fun.
LOL I haven't noticed that DRM sucks joy out of DRM'ed games I play :o)))
More of this please! :o)))
Revolution! Get on the street and start throwing bricks then to the windows
of those publishers who put DRM on their games. :o)))
Ah, you will have really LONG struggle...
> You see sleaze in someone doing what he cares about yet listening to his
> customers, and you don't see anything sleazy in publishers treating their
> customers like criminals?
Another big lie of you.
I am not feeling treated like criminal and Martin from Battlefront.com is
quite right. That is utter nonsense!!
Publishers are not putting DRM because of sports and to annoy people like
you. Are you made out of sugar?
DRM has become nececity for some publishers. If in 10 years all publishers
go Stardock way THEN I will come back to you and say Sir you have been
right, and I am sorry! But I would like to see that you come here and say
that I was right if DRM would be still around and I predict that in ten
years majority of publishers WILL have some sort of DRM. It's also matter of
advancement of technology and you will never be able to deny RIGHT of
publihshers to PROTECT THEIR PROPERTY against pirates!!! NEVER!
> As do I. You're free to like whatever games you like, and hate everything
> else, but realise that what you call sleazy is what I call a visionary
> gamer who got the opportunity to make a living doing what he loved and
> took it, without losing touch with the gamers community. You may not
> appreciate people like that, but I do.
Pathetic rumbling. I am here to enjoy good games not make stupid discussion
about DRM or not DRM.
>> Turn on your brain for a start and your nazi tactic will not work here.
>
> Excuse me? You're the one who wants to silence opinions you don't agree
> with.
Not at all.
Nazi tactic is boycott of publishers who use DRM because in the end that
will not bring anything good. Some sort of pressure on publishers is OK - so
that legitimite customer is not restrained too much, to have option to sell
his game or example, and to get prompt help with any DRM issue.
Other than that DRM is here to stay and you will not be able to do much
against it.
I for sure will not want to miss any good game with DRM or not. That is not
most important thing in gaming at all! I will reward all good developers
with my money and respect. That's all.
Future will show who was right in this. There is also a danger that zealots
like you will go buy bad games just because it has stamp NO DRM on it LOL
Mario
Bloodstar
One more thing, what if Shrapnel Games has for example put DRM on their
Dominions 2 or 3 and I think that you are fan of that game.
Would you boycott Dominions 3 because of DRM for example?
(carefully laying trap for unsuspecting mcv :)
Mario
mcv
> And MCV :)
>
> One more thing, what if Shrapnel Games has for example put DRM on their
> Dominions 2 or 3 and I think that you are fan of that game.
>
> Would you boycott Dominions 3 because of DRM for example?
I might. Depends on what alternatives are availlable. As it is, I'm not
playing Dominions 3 because Dominions 2 wasn't quite what I'd hoped.
But I'm more likely to give a DRM-less game the benefit of the doubt,
and I'm more likely not to buy a DRM game when I'm not sure it's what
I'm looking for.
Then again, when a truly brilliant and unique game with DRM gets rave
reviews and happens to be exactly what I'm looking for in a game, then
I'm not sure yet what I'd do. Suppose there was a new Panzer General 4
that combines all the best elements from PG1 and PG3SE, it gets rave
reviews, people who's opinion I respect say that this one finally nails
the right balance between the various units, and it quickly develops an
active community, and although it has intrusive DRM, nobody really has
any serious trouble with it, then I might just accept the DRM and buy
the game. Although I'd still look for a crack that removes it. And it
depends on exactly how intrusive that DRM is. I'll still avoid rootkits
and other stuff that threatens the stability of my machine.
On the other hand, I believe an expansion to MTW2 has more intrusive
DRM than MTW2 itself, so I won't be buying that expansion. I will most
likely be buying the basic game as soon as I've got a PC that can run
it.
Giftzwerg
says...
> > Then SUDDENLY his marketing PLOY will stop working! lol
> > Back to starting line - only good games sell no matter DRM (or bad games
> > with TONS of marketing on console- even that not on long period, word of
> > mouth!).
>
> Isn't that exactly what we want? Good games without DRM?
The evil known as Brad Wardell knows no bounds.
> > So Brad Wardell should shut the fuck up - and speak about games not fucking
> > DRM or copy protection! That's why he is sleazy!
>
> Why should he shut up? If I understand you correctly, he's working towards
> a world we all want: good games without DRM.
Bastard.
Giftzwerg
george.w...@microsoft.com says...
> He know that they will not listen to him and that's important part of his
> PLOY. To like give "advice" to publishers to stop using DRM. In the eyes of
> the public he then get's some righteous, Robin Hood etc. apperance. In
> reality he know really well that DRM will not go away and that's why all he
> really wants to get money of those angered by DRM on big market that could
> be a lot. Free marketing as well.
Hmmm. Did you really just destroy every single point you've made over
the last two years with a bald claim that "a lot" of buyers are "angered
by DRM?"
Gawrsh. You'd think some smart developer would tap into this backlash
and sell some games.
Wait, what?
Giftzwerg
says...
> He sees something wrong, he says so, *and* he puts his money where his
> mouth is by following his own advice. What's so wrong about that?
>
> Originally, around the time of Galactic Civilizations 1, it was just
> about the CD check. It annoyed him as a gamer, so he made sure his games
> wouldn't have it. In the years since, almost every other publisher has
> gone overboard with even more invasive DRM, and he criticises them for
> hurting their own market, while at the same time proving that you can
> make a profit without hurting your customers' enjoyment. How can you not
> respect that?
Well, and there you have it; Mario and the other DRM-lovin' dumbasses
are just cross-eyed with fury that a major developer came along and
utterly demolished their ridiculous "you sell huge volumes of games and
make piles of money without DRM, because gamers will just pirate them"
argument.
> > Yes, we want good games but you and me will be long dead and DRM will be
> > around still so that is futile fight.
>
> Not at all. We vote with our dollars (or euros, as the case may be), and
> if we pay for good games without DRM, then there will be good games
> without DRM. Ofcourse as long as there are people paying for games with
> DRM, there will also be games with DRM. That's how the market works, and
> we're part of it.
If SES and Stardock are the players, then I'd argue it's pretty easy to
see which one is more likely to follow the dodo into oblivion.
And even here, the anger is revealing. His point is, "DRM is here to
stay - just get used to it!" ... but he's pissed off at people who avoid
DRM-infected products like the plague. Why? Could it be that DRM-
fanboys are feeling a might defensive these days?
> > In the future DRM can just improve not go backwards!
>
> From my perspective, DRM *is* a step backwards. It's stupid and destructive,
> for no real gain.
>
> > Unfortunately but that is the truth so better accept it.
>
> There's no reason at all to accept this, because there are better
> alternatives possible.
... like avoiding DRM so that developers who infect their products with
it will go out of business.
Giftzwerg
george.w...@microsoft.com says...
> I have read many comments of people at Stardock forum and many of them
> bought the game just to push that non DRM argument, maybe some didn't even
> wanted to play the game which would be really shame.
Hmmm. Let me see if I've got this straight:
Hundreds of thousands - perhaps a million by now - of people bought SINS
OF A SOLAR EMPIRE, and a non-zero number of these purchasers bought it
only to support a developer who didn't infect his product with DRM.
A few hundred people bought DISTANT GUNS, and a non-zero number of those
who avoided it did so because the developers infected it with Nazi DRM.
So on the one hand, we have the developer of a hugely popular game
generating additional sales by avoiding DRM, and on the other hand we
have the developers of a niche game which barely sold 1,000 copies
crippling their sales even further by lacing it with Nazi DRM.
One developer piles success on success. The other blows his own wrinkly
little dick off.
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> ... like avoiding DRM so that developers who infect their products with
> it will go out of business.
To think a lot of people went through the trouble of trying to explain
this to the developers exactly to avoid them going out of business -
and got kicked in the nose for it.
Well, my attitude right now is that it's their funeral.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Briarroot
Yeah, but Mario still has his head screwed on backwards. He keeps right
on claiming that Wardell, who gives his customers DRM-free software, is
a "sleazy bastard" and his publicizing that fact is a "marketing ploy"
"because he's only after profit." Then Mario claims that those who
point out this illogic are "fanboys" or biased in some other way.
Sheesh! Talk about cloud-cuckoo land... :-/
--
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or
the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to
their own interest." - Adam Smith
Bloodstar
Off to play TOAW 3 - that is much better fun then responding here.
I might respond tomorrow but don't think that I will respond to Gifty as he
think that democracy is a one way street (for him). Well, that's why he is a
Republican. On a side note, Gifty would be a perfect Gauleiter AD 1942.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauleiter
Mario
Giftzwerg
Bria...@gmail.com says...
> > LOL - here's Mario publicly admitting there's a *huge* market catering
> > to gamers who utterly detest DRM - a far cry from the days when he
> > claimed only a few malcontents on Uselessnet cared about it :)
> >
>
> Yeah, but Mario still has his head screwed on backwards. He keeps right
> on claiming that Wardell, who gives his customers DRM-free software, is
> a "sleazy bastard" and his publicizing that fact is a "marketing ploy"
> "because he's only after profit." Then Mario claims that those who
> point out this illogic are "fanboys" or biased in some other way.
> Sheesh! Talk about cloud-cuckoo land... :-/
Surreal, isn't it? It's like claiming that the producers of IRON MAN
sleazily made money by shamelessly catering to the vast numbers of comic
book action fans out there and making a film which blends humor and fun
and action and adventure into a $100 million blockbuster.
How *dare* they give their customers what they're asking for! The
pricks!
Giftzwerg
george.w...@microsoft.com says...
> I might respond tomorrow but don't think that I will respond to Gifty as he
> think that democracy is a one way street (for him). Well, that's why he is a
> Republican. On a side note, Gifty would be a perfect Gauleiter AD 1942.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauleiter
<helpless laughter>
The circle of surreal completes itself. Mario argues that the real
Nazis are the evil bastards who assert that customers should have a
better gaming experience than pirates.
Giftzwerg
says...
> > And now of course that fanboy such as yourself doesn't see anything sleazy
> > in Brad Wardells doing but I am seeing it. If you have problem with that -
> > well that is your problem!
>
> You see sleaze in someone doing what he cares about yet listening to his
> customers, and you don't see anything sleazy in publishers treating their
> customers like criminals?
<applause>
Wardell's biggest sin (in Mario's eyes) is his success. How *dare* he
demolish the theory that a game publisher *must* employ intrusive, fun-
sucking DRM lest he not sell any games?
Giftzwerg
george.w...@microsoft.com says...
> Nutcases are you... I was gaming journalist who personally met my heroes
> from gaming past - most of them so don't be pathetic and stop writing post
> that wanna makes us burst into tears LOL... back to the point I met Sid
> Meier, Peter Molineux (and made interview with him), John Cutter (splendid
> game designer, one of best, Betrayal at Krondor was his game, Cinemaware),
> Steve Meretzky (who have made text based adventures in times when you peed
> in your bed), Jeff Tunnell (ex Dynamix), and HUNDREDS of game makers as well
> beside this!
POP QUIZ:
Which of these classic designers employed Nazi eLicensing and Gestapo
DRM?
> Compared with Brad those guys are wonderful and I am sure that they will
> never perform cheap marketing ploys like our dear Brad is doing.
<laughter>
Yeah. Whew. Sid Meier never built a game that was just plain fun and
could be freely installed by anyone who paid him for it.
> Sid Meier for example - Brad is nothing at all compared to him. He have made
> something for computer games which Brad will NEVER achieve. NEVER.
You can reasonably argue that Sid Meier is a "better" game developer
than Brad Wardell. You cannot reasonably argue that Sid Meier ever
employed a user-hostile DRM scheme that fucked up his customers.
> OK. You tell your part and I will tell mine. Democracy. We don't need to
> agree but let's be at least constructive. I will respect your opinion so
> long as you respect mine, no more, no less.
But that's just it. We *don't* respect your opinion. We think your
opinion is fucked-up. We think you're wrong. We disagree. We think
DRM is an industry-killing abomination. We think you should come over
to the side of Goodness and Light.
> LOL I haven't noticed that DRM sucks joy out of DRM'ed games I play :o)))
> More of this please! :o)))
> Revolution! Get on the street and start throwing bricks then to the windows
> of those publishers who put DRM on their games. :o)))
We're throwing the hardest brick of all; we're not giving them our
money.
> DRM has become nececity for some publishers.
... just not Mr. Wardell, who's succeeding wildly in spite of his
decision to respect the wishes of his paying customers.
> If in 10 years all publishers
> go Stardock way THEN I will come back to you and say Sir you have been
> right, and I am sorry! But I would like to see that you come here and say
> that I was right if DRM would be still around and I predict that in ten
> years majority of publishers WILL have some sort of DRM. It's also matter of
> advancement of technology and you will never be able to deny RIGHT of
> publihshers to PROTECT THEIR PROPERTY against pirates!!! NEVER!
It's always been the right of designers / publishers to PROTECT THEIR
PROPERTY. I fully support that right. The only thing we're arguing
against is the self-destructive tendency of developers / publishers to
engage in behaviors that hurt their customers more than the pirates -
and simultaneously damage their own sales.
> Pathetic rumbling. I am here to enjoy good games not make stupid discussion
> about DRM or not DRM.
<laughter>
This is like arguing that a guy who finds himself continuously riding
the Ferris wheel does so because he dislikes carnival rides.
> Other than that DRM is here to stay and you will not be able to do much
> against it.
Try and sell this viewpoint to the entertainment industry, which lately
has been fleeing in droves from DRM, the better to sell some CDs and
DVDs.
> I for sure will not want to miss any good game with DRM or not. That is not
> most important thing in gaming at all! I will reward all good developers
> with my money and respect. That's all.
Then you can hardly argue against Brad Wardell. SOASE is a hugely
successful, excellent game with tons of happy fans.
Giftzwerg
george.w...@microsoft.com says...
> One more thing, what if Shrapnel Games has for example put DRM on their
> Dominions 2 or 3 and I think that you are fan of that game.
>
> Would you boycott Dominions 3 because of DRM for example?
Speaking for myself, yes. Have they done this?
mcv
> Ohoho, I have stirred real hornet nest here :-)))))))
Bit off more than you can chew, you mean?
> I might respond tomorrow but don't think that I will respond to Gifty as he
> think that democracy is a one way street (for him). Well, that's why he is a
> Republican.
What exactly do democracy and political parties have to do with this?
With your support for big corporate repression of customer freedom, I'd
actually expected you to be a republican.
In any case, I'm at the complete opposite end of the political spectrum.
> On a side note, Gifty would be a perfect Gauleiter AD 1942.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauleiter
You're seriously comparing people who argue for of freedom with nazis?
I just don't know what to say to that, except that it confirms my
existing impression that you're a deranged loon.
Bloodstar
>
> Bit off more than you can chew, you mean?
No. But I don't have time to for 100 times say to Gifty how he is wrong or
how he completely miseunderstood me I would say on his purpose because he is
not so dumb.
Or how he translate my words into something completely wrong.
I don't have time for this.
> What exactly do democracy and political parties have to do with this?
> With your support for big corporate repression of customer freedom, I'd
> actually expected you to be a republican.
>
> In any case, I'm at the complete opposite end of the political spectrum.
LOL Now I am like some big capitalist bastard
Mcv read my words I will not repeat 100 times:
I am not pro DRM or against DRM but I am neither boycotting games based on
that DRM prejudice you others have esp. in niche games I am no longer buying
mainstream games so much anyway. You on the other hand are agressive
lunatics who actually support that stance and will bring nothing. Yes,
damage will be done to small, indie publishers but large publishers will
anyway sell millions, EA will soon reach 10 billion yearly turnover and you
will accomplish nothing.
I would understand that you boycott large corporations like EA, 2K etc...
but even Gifty have bought Bioshock so that makes him totally untrustworthy
and man without principles.
>> On a side note, Gifty would be a perfect Gauleiter AD 1942.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauleiter
>
> You're seriously comparing people who argue for of freedom with nazis?
>
> I just don't know what to say to that, except that it confirms my
> existing impression that you're a deranged loon.
Look, support what you want, and we may exchange curses but that will lead
us nowhere.
You have your own opinion on this and I have mine and this discussion is
closed.
This has nothing to do with freedom because major corporations will sell a
ton games no matter DRM and you will just hurt small art hobby firms who in
fact are more creative. So you are the opressors ;)))
And democracy is a two way street. Not a one way street!
I may withdraw my words about Brad being sleazy bastard if that is of SO
MUCH concern to you LOL :o))))
But I still have my opinion on this and I still don't like the way he is
presenting things.
But OK! I will be democrat so be it - buy his game, respect his anti DRM
stance no problem, hate others who use DRM, no problem. Fight your cause -
no problem.
But things are not black and white and will never be.
I stay with 99% of things I've said and you didn't proved me wrong. But I
will not respond to Gifty's 10 silly posts and make big flame out of this
that will again lead us nowhere.
Go ahead and make your own discussion and talk about this, I have nothing
more to say.
EOD on this. I have work to do and beating the dead horse over and over
again is a dead race and I never liked that on Usenet. I would just like to
see that my opinion is respected EVEN if you find it wrong. I found your
opinion wrong but I always remember Voltaire and always ALLOW people to
disagree with me. So be a fucking democrat and allow me to have my opinion
on this. In that regard we will see who is nazi and who is democrat.
ENDE.
Mario
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> I just don't know what to say to that, except that it confirms my
> existing impression that you're a deranged loon.
This is a NEWSgroup - tell us something we didn't know already :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
You fucking moron from Belgium have started all this.
mcv
>> This is a NEWSgroup - tell us something we didn't know already :)
>
> You fucking moron from Belgium have started all this.
Do you have shares in StarForce or something? You seem to take this
very personally.
Briarroot
<helpless laughter!>
;-)
--
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the
blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of
misery." - Winston Churchill
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Bloodstar <george.washing...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> This is a NEWSgroup - tell us something we didn't know already :)
>
> > You fucking moron from Belgium have started all this.
>
> Do you have shares in StarForce or something? You seem to take this
> very personally.
In a sense he's allmost right for once - I was among the guys who
"started all this"
After re-reading that thread it's kinda eery how much of it is still
relevant today and how most of the predictions made back then have
become reality.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
> very personally.
I don't. But I hate lies. Now I have said my opinion and I hope that THIS
will be aknowledged.
I am neither pro DRM nor against. I am pro good games and that's my motto.
Those anti DRM crusaders are getting very nasty toward people like me - then
I just return fire.
Mario
Bloodstar
> "started all this"
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/browse_frm/thread/ed7f8e5165f2233a/0bddf8a6b0458a61?lnk=st&q=#0bddf8a6b0458a61
>
> After re-reading that thread it's kinda eery how much of it is still
> relevant today and how most of the predictions made back then have
> become reality.
Yes, you were right on target. I cannot play Distant Guns because SES have
gone out of business! HAHAHAHA
mcv
>> Do you have shares in StarForce or something? You seem to take this
>> very personally.
>
> I don't. But I hate lies.
So do I, which might explain my reaction to attacks of Brad Wardell's
character.
> I am neither pro DRM nor against. I am pro good games and that's my motto.
I'm pro good games, but also pro *playable* games, and DRM often hurts
the playability of games.
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> I'm pro good games, but also pro *playable* games, and DRM often hurts
> the playability of games.
Battlefront's Matt Faller just posted why they stick it to their US/
Euro customers :
"Anyway, as I said, this whole DRM issue is a mess, but currently its
a necessary one. This was really proved to me when i found that
pirated copies of our earlier, non DRM'd games were on sale in bazaars
and street markets in places like Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, China
and other vacation hotspots.
With the system we have now, that's not a problem"
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1008485&postcount=21
hey, Matt, care to give us the sales numbers for China, Saudi Arabia,
Syria and Libya ?
But what are we complaining about, it's not like we own the stuff we
buy from them anyway.
"Digitally distributed media has changed the landscape of licensing
and its been a long hard struggle for consumers to grasp the concept
that they are not buying the media content itself, but rather a
LICENSE to use said content in a very fixed and hopefully well defined
way."
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1008391&postcount=18
This consumer here had no problem "grasping the concept", I just hope
he manages to grasp the following more monetary concept : they've got
me in their books for previous games of them, but didn't get a cent
from me from after they adopted eLicence.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
A boycotting nutcase, anti DRM zealot who have some axe to grind with
BCF.com or SES.
More loud than than it is nececary and damaging bug for wargaming industry.
LOL truly pathetic, sisif work(in the end) and counterproductive. I am just
worried that there are some people without brain that actually listen to
this Belgium scoundrel who explain them for 1000 times how Battlefront.com
will screw their customers.
Maybe Battlefront.com can sue you for spreading false information. You are
truly amazing damaging fool. Especially on Wargamer.com but God knows on
what other place.
At the end you are COWARD as well, you are telling Matt on USENET that you
will not buy their games HAHA... Maybe he doesn't read Usenet. Well, you are
here protected with Gifty.
Oh, and now I have taken you into discussion haha. On Usenet this Belgium
bastard is very well protected but when he crosses into web he is labeled as
nutcase from the people working in industry.
And you hided true meaning of Matt's words as naturally - obviously DRM they
employ works for them and bring results to them. Games are not just cracked
in Lybia and China you fool but everywhere.
Battlefront.com : Eddy Sterckx = 1:0 haha
Mario
Giftzwerg
a52ed8...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
> Battlefront's Matt Faller just posted why they stick it to their US/
> Euro customers :
>
> "Anyway, as I said, this whole DRM issue is a mess, but currently its
> a necessary one. This was really proved to me when i found that
> pirated copies of our earlier, non DRM'd games were on sale in bazaars
> and street markets in places like Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, China
> and other vacation hotspots.
> With the system we have now, that's not a problem"
<laughter>
Now, after a fertile infusion of DRM, these street markets and bazaars
are full of *legitimate* copies of their latest shitware ... uh, at
$1.99 a copy.
Just like here in Burlington, VT!
Nothing succeeds against pirates like making a game that nobody wants to
buy, even at rock-bottom prices.
> But what are we complaining about, it's not like we own the stuff we
> buy from them anyway.
>
> "Digitally distributed media has changed the landscape of licensing
> and its been a long hard struggle for consumers to grasp the concept
> that they are not buying the media content itself, but rather a
> LICENSE to use said content in a very fixed and hopefully well defined
> way."
As I've said before, I'll start buying this crapware if and only if I
can pay for it with eDollars, something developers will have a long hard
struggle to grasp as not getting the money itself, but rather a LICENSE
to briefly hold the money in a very fixed and hopefully well defined way
- oh, and immediately losing their license for the eDollars the moment
they do <something I dislike>.
--
Giftzwerg
***
"US home prices fall at record pace"
- Headline, Financial Times
"US new home sales rose unexpectedly in April"
- Headline, Breitbart.com
"These fucking retards in the press will *never* understand economics."
- Giftzwerg
Giftzwerg
george.w...@microsoft.com says...
> I am just
> worried that there are some people without brain that actually listen to
> this Belgium scoundrel who explain them for 1000 times how Battlefront.com
> will screw their customers.
On the other hand, I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the thought
that someone without a brain might listen to some Bosnian clot explain
why forking over hard cash for a tenuous, revokable, Nazi eLicense
*isn't* getting a royal fucking.
Bloodstar
>> worried that there are some people without brain that actually listen to
>> this Belgium scoundrel who explain them for 1000 times how
>> Battlefront.com
>> will screw their customers.
>
> On the other hand, I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the thought
> that someone without a brain might listen to some Bosnian clot explain
> why forking over hard cash for a tenuous, revokable, Nazi eLicense
> *isn't* getting a royal fucking.
There was no doubt that some USA-ian clot will catch on this hook :o))))
I am not going at Wargamer.com forums on my day time hours like a Eddy
persuading people on this or on that. I had made my point and if you are so
dumb to understand it it's not my problem.
Nobody needs to explain to the customers anything. Battlefront.com obviously
is doing well with it's GASP nazi eLicense! :)
Otherwise by your account they would be long time out of business!
You and Eddy are just louder, majority of customer doesn't have the LEVEL of
problem you are having with DRM.
So nazi are you - and ready for hospitalization as regular customers doesn't
give a damn too much about DRM. For you it is matter of life and death.
Mario
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <g1lpm6$oa...@sunce.iskon.hr>,
> george.washing...@microsoft.com says...
>
> > I am just
> > worried that there are some people without brain that actually listen to
> > this Belgium scoundrel who explain them for 1000 times how Battlefront.com
> > will screw their customers.
>
> On the other hand, I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the thought
> that someone without a brain might listen to some Bosnian clot explain
> why forking over hard cash for a tenuous, revokable, Nazi eLicense
> *isn't* getting a royal fucking.
"Lastly, about eLicense and that old "what if Battlefront is gone"
argument. Let me put it clearly: it's bullshit. If Battlefront goes
out of business, we would release unprotected versions of all games,
that remove the eLicense stuff, simple as that."
http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000596;p=1#000014
Even JR isn't stupid enough to put that in writing - I guess he had
better run that by his lawyer first ...
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx