PT Boats Knight of the Sea
HR
$45.
DL now:)
I did check here first to see if Eddy posted it..then checked BF for
fun as they said avail Xmas:)
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Is out and available for DL now at Battlefront.
> $45.
>
> DL now:)
First impressions ?
Word on the 'Net is it tries to be a sim and a strategic game at the
same time, but doesn't really succeed at either.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
HR
It's pretty bad Eddy.
I only got it because I love PT boats. But I can't even enjoy that.
It's all mission dependent which means controlling other ships. They
call it strategic but its no more than just having other ships and
maybe giving a waypoint or two. Also missions have to be completed in
order to go onto the next. So if you don't like the mission, tough.
I would have rather it'd be more open ended along the lines of Silent
Hunter. I would have been happy with that..even if the sim part was
light.
And no PT boats in the Pacific!?! So much for the feeling of the
movie "They Were Expendable"
eddys...@hotmail.com
> It's pretty bad Eddy.
> I only got it because I love PT boats. But I can't even enjoy that.
> It's all mission dependent which means controlling other ships. They
> call it strategic but its no more than just having other ships and
> maybe giving a waypoint or two. Also missions have to be completed in
> order to go onto the next. So if you don't like the mission, tough.
There's a demo out now but I think I'm going to give it a pass.
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=237&Itemid=366
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
Why didn't they call the game MTB: KNIGHTS OF THE SEA?
--
Giftzwerg
***
"[W]hat I can't wrap my head around is that it took the President four
days to acknowledge what he termed a 'catastrophic' national security
failure, but Cheney criticizes the administration's handling of the war
on terror and they have a rapid response on the White House blog in a
matter of hours? Priorities!"
- Mark Hemingway
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <24944e1c-dfae-4e09-b87e-3f97878685c5
>
> > On 28 dec 2009, 19:10, HR <mars...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > It's pretty bad Eddy.
> > > I only got it because I love PT boats. But I can't even enjoy that.
> > > It's all mission dependent which means controlling other ships. They
> > > call it strategic but its no more than just having other ships and
> > > maybe giving a waypoint or two. Also missions have to be completed in
> > > order to go onto the next. So if you don't like the mission, tough.
>
> > There's a demo out now but I think I'm going to give it a pass.
>
>
> Why didn't they call the game MTB: KNIGHTS OF THE SEA?
To show they're hardcore naval grogs by using the hull classification
instead of the more generic name ?
Anyway, not my type of wargame. Still mad at them for getting that
windbag MacArthur out of Corregidor :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > > There's a demo out now but I think I'm going to give it a pass.
> >
> > >http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcate...
> >
> > Why didn't they call the game MTB: KNIGHTS OF THE SEA?
>
> To show they're hardcore naval grogs by using the hull classification
> instead of the more generic name ?
>
> Anyway, not my type of wargame. Still mad at them for getting that
> windbag MacArthur out of Corregidor :)
But are there any American PT Boats in the game? And isn't "PT Boat"
more / exclusively an American term for the class?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall any European nation present in the
game using "PT Boat." To my ears, it sounds like a game about Soviet,
British, and Germany infantrymen called, "GI: SHARKS OF THE LAND."
eddys...@hotmail.com
> But are there any American PT Boats in the game?
HR said there's no Pacific in this game, so I guess not.
> And isn't "PT Boat"
> more / exclusively an American term for the class?
Could be - the Germans called them "S-Boot" from a German term for
"fast boat". The Italians called them "M.A.S. boats" and the British
called them MTB's.
The Ruskies got them through lend-lease so they might have used the US
term for it. As the developers of this game are Russian it might make
sense that way. Or it's simple clever marketing to use the US term for
it. Or it's simply because they had to pick something out of all the
different terms for what's essentially the same type of vessel.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > And isn't "PT Boat"
> > more / exclusively an American term for the class?
>
> Could be - the Germans called them "S-Boot" from a German term for
> "fast boat". The Italians called them "M.A.S. boats" and the British
> called them MTB's.
>
> The Ruskies got them through lend-lease so they might have used the US
> term for it. As the developers of this game are Russian it might make
> sense that way. Or it's simple clever marketing to use the US term for
> it. Or it's simply because they had to pick something out of all the
> different terms for what's essentially the same type of vessel.
I just found it a bit misleading to see a game called "PT BOATS ..."
that didn't feature the one navy I associate most closely with the term;
to just about every American, it would be as if a game appeared called
BIG APPLE BASEBALL where your only choice of teams were Naples, Minsk,
and Liverpool.
[PS: I'd be mightily pissed off if I *bought* a game called PT BOATS
and didn't find the Pacific War campaigns included.]
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> I just found it a bit misleading to see a game called "PT BOATS ..."
> that didn't feature the one navy I associate most closely with the term;
> to just about every American, it would be as if a game appeared called
> BIG APPLE BASEBALL where your only choice of teams were Naples, Minsk,
> and Liverpool.
Believe it or not, there is actually a baseball team in Liverpool -
the Liverpool Trojans (http://www.liverpooltrojansbaseball.co.uk/). I
don't think there's one in New York (Tyne & Wear), Philadelphia (Tyne
& Wear) or Toronto (Co. Durham) though.
According to my Dad, there was once a competition to win a trip to New
York, Philadelphia and Washington. The winners, who hadn't read the
small-print properly, were a little bit disappointed when they
arrived...
> [PS: I'd be mightily pissed off if I *bought* a game called PT BOATS
> and didn't find the Pacific War campaigns included.]
Don't you just love marketing?!
--
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
nos...@jades.org /is/ a real email address!
Giftzwerg
nos...@jades.org says...
> > I just found it a bit misleading to see a game called "PT BOATS ..."
> > that didn't feature the one navy I associate most closely with the term;
> > to just about every American, it would be as if a game appeared called
> > BIG APPLE BASEBALL where your only choice of teams were Naples, Minsk,
> > and Liverpool.
>
> Believe it or not, there is actually a baseball team in Liverpool -
> the Liverpool Trojans (http://www.liverpooltrojansbaseball.co.uk/). I
> don't think there's one in New York (Tyne & Wear), Philadelphia (Tyne
> & Wear) or Toronto (Co. Durham) though.
> According to my Dad, there was once a competition to win a trip to New
> York, Philadelphia and Washington. The winners, who hadn't read the
> small-print properly, were a little bit disappointed when they
> arrived...
I'm sure they play baseball in Minsk and Naples, too. They may play
fine baseball in all three cities. But to an American it would be like
a Briton buying a game called PREMIER LEAGUE FOOTBALL and not finding a
single British team on the roster.
> > [PS: I'd be mightily pissed off if I *bought* a game called PT BOATS
> > and didn't find the Pacific War campaigns included.]
>
> Don't you just love marketing?!
In this case, I can't imagine who they think they're pleasing. A German
or UKian might be wondering whether MTBs and S-boots were featured - or
is it just PT-boats? - while the American who brings home the box will
be rummaging about wondering where PT-109 is.
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> In this case, I can't imagine who they think they're pleasing. A German
> or UKian might be wondering whether MTBs and S-boots were featured - or
> is it just PT-boats?
Worse, they may have decided not to bother even looking into it as
they'd be making the assumption that it'll be one nation only like the
Silent Hunter games tend to be.
Speaking of which, I understand that SH5 is going to be the Germans
again. *YAWN*.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Speaking of which, I understand that SH5 is going to be the Germans
> again. *YAWN*.
To be fair, when you've got a WWII submarine franchise you run out of
different nations pretty fast.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
JAB
I don't thinks it's just nations it's ideas of how to make it "better"
than your last version. Flight sims can give you different types of
aircraft for a very different experience but with sub sims, well it all
seem much the same regardless of theatre or sub type. SHIII I played a
hell of a lot, haven't not played a sub sim since Silient Service on the
Atari ST so it all seemed new and dandy. SHIV I installed and played for
all of two hours before thinking, this is just the same as before with a
few tweaks. I don't see how SHV is going to be any different. Sure it
will be a good game in it's own right but worth buying if you have SHIII
or SHIV, probably not.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> On 11/01/2010 07:43, eddyster...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > To be fair, when you've got a WWII submarine franchise you run out of
> > different nations pretty fast.
>
> I don't thinks it's just nations it's ideas of how to make it "better"
> than your last version. Flight sims can give you different types of
> aircraft for a very different experience but with sub sims, well it all
> seem much the same regardless of theatre or sub type.
I think you've hit on something here. Some games and genres have
reached a level where the next game becomes incrementally less
stunning/better - notable exceptions like Fallout excepted.
I've played some online Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 2 at a friend
recently and the experience is no different than playing Doom or
Unreal 5-10 years ago. Sure, if I was a kid today I'd buy the new
stuff, and I can see why it's popular, but it's the same respawn-rush-
kill-get killed experience all over again.
Luckily wargaming as a niche offers a much bigger variety of gaming
experiences - just think about how different games like WC:NAW, WitP,
War Plan Pacific and Jutland play, yet they're all naval wargames.
I'd hate to be an RTS or FPS gamer these days - is anybody able to
tell the new offerings apart ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
JAB
I shan't mention HPS games then :-) Some of the ground breaking games
for me where Borodino (Atria ST), Combat Mission, Airborne Assault and,
someone's going to complain here, Close Combat. What they all offered
was the type of wargame that just can't be played without a computer.
Saying all of that I'm still looking forward to Lock and Load.
> I'd hate to be an RTS or FPS gamer these days - is anybody able to
> tell the new offerings apart ?
>
RTSes I haven't enjoyed since Total Annihilation and FPSes still manage
to come up with something different every so often. HL1 (an FPS with a
real story) COD1 (a perfect WWII shooter) and for all of its bugs
STALKER (the most wonderful atmosphere in a game for a long time).
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
> On 11/01/2010 09:35, eddyster...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Luckily wargaming as a niche offers a much bigger variety of gaming
> > experiences - just think about how different games like WC:NAW, WitP,
> > War Plan Pacific and Jutland play, yet they're all naval wargames.
>
> I shan't mention HPS games then :-)
Best not :)
> Some of the ground breaking games
> for me where Borodino (Atria ST), Combat Mission, Airborne Assault and,
> someone's going to complain here, Close Combat. What they all offered
> was the type of wargame that just can't be played without a computer.
I'm tempted to include the "monster" games like WitP here too. Mere
mortals really can't play the boardgame monsters, but it becomes do-
able somewhat on the computer.
> Saying all of that I'm still looking forward to Lock and Load.
Well, it all depends on how faithfully they've managed to port the
boardgame. More specifically : what they did to remove the drawbacks
of the boardgame system that *shouldn't* make it into a computer
version. For instance : L&L is a marker heavy game which seriously
detracts from the visual appeal. In other words : for L&L the pc game
to become a success it'll have to do away with some of the boardgame
clutter.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> I've played some online Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 2 at a friend
> recently and the experience is no different than playing Doom or
> Unreal 5-10 years ago. Sure, if I was a kid today I'd buy the new
> stuff, and I can see why it's popular, but it's the same respawn-rush-
> kill-get killed experience all over again.
>
> Luckily wargaming as a niche offers a much bigger variety of gaming
> experiences - just think about how different games like WC:NAW, WitP,
> War Plan Pacific and Jutland play, yet they're all naval wargames.
>
> I'd hate to be an RTS or FPS gamer these days - is anybody able to
> tell the new offerings apart ?
In some cases, sure. But you already mentioned FALLOUT3, and certainly
there are others that manage to bring something new to the table.
BIOSHOCK, for instance, was quite a fresh and new game, despite the fact
that - at the root of it - was the same "rush about, collect stuff, find
the McGuffins, and continue on" that characterize other offerings in the
genre.
I think there's a parallel between this and the earlier points made
about the old SPI boardgames that simply printed pictures of panzers on
one title and Roman legions on another; sure, most FPS games are just
some reworking of the original DOOM in terms of pure gameplay, but
there's something to be said for how well the designers envision a world
and bring it to life. Many, many FPS titles have done this quite well.
DARK FORCES, for example, took DOOM and brought it alive in the Star
Wars universe. There was never a sense that the player was just "the
DOOM space marine who finds himself aboard an Imperial Star Destroyer."
Similarly, UNREAL, QUAKE, HALF-LIFE, DUKE NUKE'M 3D all added something
very new to the FPS genre ... despite all being quite similar in
gameplay terms.
And look at the wild success of FALLOUT3. When it was announced that
Bethesda was going to do FALLOUT3, FALLOUT fans from the previous games
were lowing like cattle in dismay; they wanted another 2D, isomorphic
continuation of the first two (three, if we credit FALLOUT: TACTICS...)
games. I was smiling from ear to ear, and my expectations of goodness
shot through the roof.
That said, sometimes players don't want anything new and radical. I had
dinner at a friend's house recently, and she served filet mignon ... but
done a "new" way with all sorts of Asian spices and eastern sauces. It
was fine, I suppose, but I couldn't help thinking that it would have
been better had she just seared the beef in a cast-iron grill pan, then
finished it in the oven - perhaps with a little salt and pepper. In
other words, I didn't *want* anything new; I wanted "another" helping of
something that didn't particularly need any embellishment.
So for FALLOUT4, I'd be most happy with FALLOUT3 in some new environment
... but not *too* new.
--
Giftzwerg
***
"I am less interested in passing out blame than I am in learning from
and correcting these mistakes to make us safer."
- President Barack Obama
"<laughter> I'll bet you are, particularly since you're to blame."
- Giftzwerg
Graham Thurlwell
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote:
The RN had one of the biggest sub fleets in the world during both
wars. Even if it's just as an expansion pack I'd buy it.
Unfortunately, other than football management games, the UK games
industry seems more interested in chasing after US dollars these days.
I miss the 80s sometimes.
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> In some cases, sure. But you already mentioned FALLOUT3, and certainly
> there are others that manage to bring something new to the table.
> BIOSHOCK, for instance, was quite a fresh and new game, despite the fact
> that - at the root of it - was the same "rush about, collect stuff, find
> the McGuffins, and continue on" that characterize other offerings in the
> genre.
I've never played Bioshock (DRM concerns and lack of computer power at
the time it came out), but isn't it essentially System Shock 3? Even
seems to have a lot of the same developers.
Did you ever play the Thief games? The first one was considered
revolutionary at the time. OK so they now look a little basic by
modern graphical standards, but the gameplay still stands up well.
Another factor in its success was that it had the tutorial and first
level proper of the game as the demo.
Giftzwerg
nos...@jades.org says...
> >> Speaking of which, I understand that SH5 is going to be the Germans
> >> again. *YAWN*.
>
> > To be fair, when you've got a WWII submarine franchise you run out of
> > different nations pretty fast.
>
> The RN had one of the biggest sub fleets in the world during both
> wars. Even if it's just as an expansion pack I'd buy it.
> Unfortunately, other than football management games, the UK games
> industry seems more interested in chasing after US dollars these days.
> I miss the 80s sometimes.
Not to mention Italy, which had some of the coolest hardware around.
The CAGNI class, for example, was a favorite in the old AH game
SUBMARINE by dint of its staggering 14 torpedo tubes; you could fire off
the full loadout of *two* German VIICs and still be packing four spare
shots.
Giftzwerg
nos...@jades.org says...
> > In some cases, sure. But you already mentioned FALLOUT3, and certainly
> > there are others that manage to bring something new to the table.
> > BIOSHOCK, for instance, was quite a fresh and new game, despite the fact
> > that - at the root of it - was the same "rush about, collect stuff, find
> > the McGuffins, and continue on" that characterize other offerings in the
> > genre.
>
> I've never played Bioshock (DRM concerns and lack of computer power at
> the time it came out), but isn't it essentially System Shock 3? Even
> seems to have a lot of the same developers.
>
> Did you ever play the Thief games? The first one was considered
> revolutionary at the time. OK so they now look a little basic by
> modern graphical standards, but the gameplay still stands up well.
> Another factor in its success was that it had the tutorial and first
> level proper of the game as the demo.
I enjoyed THIEF (et al) because of the de-emphasis on continuous combat.
Other games try to pull off a "THIEF-like" level or mission once in a
while, but they ultimately fail because the player is already ensconced
in a mindset that tries to solve all issues with an A324 Plasma Rifle.
That said, few other games have tried to break the mold in this fashion,
mostly, I'd say, because "runnin' and gunnin'" is what most FPS players
seem to want. FALLOUT3 offers a kind of pretense at being able to play
as a "stealthy" character ... but eventually you find that sneaking up
on a Deathclaw is worthless; even if you can pull it off, whaddaya gonna
do? Piss on it?