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VR designs (Vic) new Eastern Front game
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dougb
Apr 27, 2013, 10:01:05 AM4/27/13
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Vic announced on his blog that he is designing a new Eastern Front level game - this time divisional scale rather than regimental. He's unsure yet whether it will just cover the initial invasion or the entire war although he thinks likely the latter.
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/
Happy to see him have another go although I still think Eastern Front level games lend themselves to corps level manouver units as the appropriate level (and a heck of a lot more manageable). That's something Grigsby got right in WIR but sadly abandoned in WITE. I think that at the divisional scale it's far better to have the focus on smaller scenarios a la Schwerpunkts Russia German War.
Doug
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/
Happy to see him have another go although I still think Eastern Front level games lend themselves to corps level manouver units as the appropriate level (and a heck of a lot more manageable). That's something Grigsby got right in WIR but sadly abandoned in WITE. I think that at the divisional scale it's far better to have the focus on smaller scenarios a la Schwerpunkts Russia German War.
Doug
eddys...@hotmail.com
Apr 29, 2013, 3:27:00 AM4/29/13
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On 27 apr, 16:01, dougb <douglasbrun...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Happy to see him have another go although I still think Eastern Front level games lend themselves to corps level manouver units as the appropriate level (and a heck of a lot more manageable). That's something Grigsby got right in WIR but sadly abandoned in WITE. I think that at the divisional scale it's far better to have the focus on smaller scenarios a la Schwerpunkts Russia German War.
I agree - this one sounds like the intention is catching all those
> Happy to see him have another go although I still think Eastern Front level games lend themselves to corps level manouver units as the appropriate level (and a heck of a lot more manageable). That's something Grigsby got right in WIR but sadly abandoned in WITE. I think that at the divisional scale it's far better to have the focus on smaller scenarios a la Schwerpunkts Russia German War.
WitE gamers and those disappointed in that game which is a pretty
decent market. Not for me though, corps/army is the level I want to
play the Eastern Front.
What's maybe even more interesting is this "mystery game" he's
refering to and on which he seems to be spending the majority of his
time, so logic dictates that's his real new baby.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
dougb
Apr 29, 2013, 9:53:07 AM4/29/13
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Interestingly WITE has another batch of scenarios coming out called Lost Battles.
http://matrixgames.com/products/489/details/Gary.Grigsby's.War.in.the.East:.Lost.Battles
That is a strange one - years after release they're still struggling to model the action on the Russian Front because of the complexity and detail of the engine. With all that though the problem may simply be the time scale for turns and the igo ugo sequence aren't well matched up for the detail level of the units.
I'll be interested in Vic's mystery game but at this point I guess it's probably too much to hope for a corps level game. Wonder if the next game is going to be more strategic in scope. Wonder why all the secrecy - why not just come out and let us know what the next big project is?
In a way it's frustrating because I think he already has many of the building blocks in place to put a corps level game together without having to completely rebuild his whole engine from scratch. Regimental scale for games covering that much frontage was always a head scratcher. I kind of wish Mark Simonitch and Vic would collaborate on a pc wargame or perhaps a conversion of the Ukraine 43/Ardennes 44 system.
Doug
http://matrixgames.com/products/489/details/Gary.Grigsby's.War.in.the.East:.Lost.Battles
That is a strange one - years after release they're still struggling to model the action on the Russian Front because of the complexity and detail of the engine. With all that though the problem may simply be the time scale for turns and the igo ugo sequence aren't well matched up for the detail level of the units.
I'll be interested in Vic's mystery game but at this point I guess it's probably too much to hope for a corps level game. Wonder if the next game is going to be more strategic in scope. Wonder why all the secrecy - why not just come out and let us know what the next big project is?
In a way it's frustrating because I think he already has many of the building blocks in place to put a corps level game together without having to completely rebuild his whole engine from scratch. Regimental scale for games covering that much frontage was always a head scratcher. I kind of wish Mark Simonitch and Vic would collaborate on a pc wargame or perhaps a conversion of the Ukraine 43/Ardennes 44 system.
Doug
eddys...@hotmail.com
Apr 29, 2013, 10:02:17 AM4/29/13
to
On 29 apr, 15:53, dougb <douglasbrun...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Interestingly WITE has another batch of scenarios coming out called Lost Battles.
It's interesting in the sense that Matrix has yet to release a new
> Interestingly WITE has another batch of scenarios coming out called Lost Battles.
game-system this year, all we get is scenario packs and repackaging of
old stuff. Something tells me this ain't normal, nor healthy for a
company.
> That is a strange one - years after release they're still struggling to model the action on the Russian Front because of the complexity and detail of the engine.
logical alternative to too much detail ....
> I'll be interested in Vic's mystery game but at this point I guess it's probably too much to hope for a corps level game. Wonder if the next game is going to be more strategic in scope. Wonder why all the secrecy - why not just come out and let us know what the next big project is?
want to build up buzz for a new game.
> In a way it's frustrating because I think he already has many of the building blocks in place to put a corps level game together without having to completely rebuild his whole engine from scratch.
> I kind of wish Mark Simonitch and Vic would collaborate on a pc wargame or perhaps a conversion of the Ukraine 43/Ardennes 44 system.
that's taboo, a big no-no, simply not done.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
dougb
Apr 29, 2013, 10:57:37 AM4/29/13
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Yeah I think I recall a few mentions about abstracting some of the less important details - just can't quite recall who suggested that....<g>
Just saw Matrix put a couple of titles on a weekly special - wonder if that will become a more common occurrence with all the back and forth on their forum about the high prices on their older games. There have been a few additions to their 'in the works' section and the new Nato Warsaw pact tactical game is a welcome addition considering how long it's been since the original was released.
Well I'll just keep using Vassal to play some great boardgames with my friends in various parts of the world and keep my eye on the pc scene for the few good pc wargames that pop up once in a blue moon. At least it looks like Command Ops will continue and that a more aggressive release schedule may be in the works for that series.
Doug
Just saw Matrix put a couple of titles on a weekly special - wonder if that will become a more common occurrence with all the back and forth on their forum about the high prices on their older games. There have been a few additions to their 'in the works' section and the new Nato Warsaw pact tactical game is a welcome addition considering how long it's been since the original was released.
Well I'll just keep using Vassal to play some great boardgames with my friends in various parts of the world and keep my eye on the pc scene for the few good pc wargames that pop up once in a blue moon. At least it looks like Command Ops will continue and that a more aggressive release schedule may be in the works for that series.
Doug
eddys...@hotmail.com
Apr 30, 2013, 2:42:18 AM4/30/13
to
On 29 apr, 16:57, dougb <douglasbrun...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> Just saw Matrix put a couple of titles on a weekly special - wonder if that will become a more common occurrence with all the back and forth on their forum about the high prices on their older games.
It's a start - and it means that what the fans have been telling them
>
> Just saw Matrix put a couple of titles on a weekly special - wonder if that will become a more common occurrence with all the back and forth on their forum about the high prices on their older games.
is reflected in the sales numbers they have, otherwise why bother ?
> There have been a few additions to their 'in the works' section
take a look at is Brother Against Brother.
> and the new Nato Warsaw pact tactical game is a welcome addition considering how long it's been since the original was released.
War Commander ruleset and I was again reminded what I don't like about
wargaming this on the tactical level : it's too deadly to be subtle
This is a what-if war that needs to be fought out on the strategic
level to be interesting.
> Well I'll just keep using Vassal to play some great boardgames with my friends in various parts of the world and keep my eye on the pc scene for the few good pc wargames that pop up once in a blue moon.
game set up for tonight.
> At least it looks like Command Ops will continue and that a more aggressive release schedule may be in the works for that series.
I mean.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Mike Kreuzer
May 7, 2013, 4:11:33 AM5/7/13
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On 29/04/2013 11:53 PM, dougb wrote:
> Interestingly WITE has another batch of scenarios coming out called
> Lost Battles.
>
> http://matrixgames.com/products/489/details/Gary.Grigsby's.War.in.the.East:.Lost.Battles
>
>
>
That is a strange one - years after release they're still struggling
> to model the action on the Russian Front because of the complexity
> and detail of the engine.
[snip]
> Interestingly WITE has another batch of scenarios coming out called
> Lost Battles.
>
> http://matrixgames.com/products/489/details/Gary.Grigsby's.War.in.the.East:.Lost.Battles
>
>
>
That is a strange one - years after release they're still struggling
> to model the action on the Russian Front because of the complexity
> and detail of the engine.
And/or the way they completely doing away with any kind of testing
before release then changed programmers when the great man threw up his
hands & walked away after a wave of criticism... just a rumour...
unfounded I'm sure. <g>
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
Mike Kreuzer
May 7, 2013, 4:13:27 AM5/7/13
to
grammar. <g>)
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
dougb
May 7, 2013, 9:27:31 AM5/7/13
to
Mike I think they just chewed off too much in the design - the resources necessary to test adequately given the level of complexity in the engine would be pretty astounding. They still apparently can't get the unit upgrades to work properly (2 years after release) and the national morale issue looks like it's been far more trouble than its worth. Can't imagine that the approach will be simplified for WITW even though simplifying the engine would be a huge help.
Funny thing is on the game forum you'll read a person lamenting that the game is hopeless for the German player and then a couple of posts down hailing as the best pc game ever on the Russian front. I still think WIR was Grigsby's best effort on the pc (not including the older 8 bit designs). WITE was a Kitchen battalion too far...
Wonder if anyone could convince Sid Meier to do a Russian Front game?<g>
Doug
Funny thing is on the game forum you'll read a person lamenting that the game is hopeless for the German player and then a couple of posts down hailing as the best pc game ever on the Russian front. I still think WIR was Grigsby's best effort on the pc (not including the older 8 bit designs). WITE was a Kitchen battalion too far...
Wonder if anyone could convince Sid Meier to do a Russian Front game?<g>
Doug
eddys...@hotmail.com
May 7, 2013, 12:01:38 PM5/7/13
to
On 7 mei, 15:27, dougb <douglasbrun...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Mike I think they just chewed off too much in the design - the resources necessary to test adequately given the level of complexity in the engine would be pretty astounding. They still apparently can't get the unit upgrades to work properly (2 years after release) and the national morale issue looks like it's been far more trouble than its worth. Can't imagine that the approach will be simplified for WITW even though simplifying the engine would be a huge help.
It's a virus that has infected many well-known wargame designers.
> Mike I think they just chewed off too much in the design - the resources necessary to test adequately given the level of complexity in the engine would be pretty astounding. They still apparently can't get the unit upgrades to work properly (2 years after release) and the national morale issue looks like it's been far more trouble than its worth. Can't imagine that the approach will be simplified for WITW even though simplifying the engine would be a huge help.
> Wonder if anyone could convince Sid Meier to do a Russian Front game?<g>
the money is in other types of games.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
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