Wargame of the Year 2011 - results

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eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 16, 2012, 3:24:39 AM1/16/12
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Hi,

The results :

War-Historical's Wargame of the Year 2011 :

# 1 - Panzer Corps - 43 points

The Silver and Bronze go to :

# 2 - Combat Mission : Battle for Normandy - 37 points
# 3 - Unity of Command - 21 points

Congrats to the winners, they will get a mail / forum post from me
with the unique badge designed by Daniel Lamb.

Can someone who voted for Combat Mission post their silver medal over
at the Battlefront forum ? I can't because I got banned there.

The rest of the Top 10

# 4 - Shogun 2 : Total War - 17 points
# 5 - Time of Fury - 11 points
# 6 - Panzer Command : Ostfront - 10 points
# 7 - Panzer Corps - Grand Campaign '39 - 8 points
# 8 - A Few Acres of Snow - 5 points
# 8 - Panzer Corps - Grand Campaign '40 - 5 points
# 8 - Achtung Panzer - Operation Star - 5 points

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Miguel Ramirez

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Jan 16, 2012, 4:08:32 AM1/16/12
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> Can someone who voted for Combat Mission post their silver medal over at
> the Battlefront forum ? I can't because I got banned there.
>

Sure, I can do that.

Cheers,

Miquel.

Mike Kreuzer

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Jan 16, 2012, 4:50:44 AM1/16/12
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Next year's winner: Panzer panzer: the panzerung III - let's get panzered.

Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com

Vincenzo Beretta

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Jan 16, 2012, 5:58:18 AM1/16/12
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I guess it is a sign of the times that this year ballot was the limpest
ever.

Actually, looking back at my year of wargaming I was a little bit amazed at
how the "Oldies" dominated the scene (and, in many cases, "DOSBox era"
oldies):

- Naval Campaigns: Midway (I would have voted for this, but I discovered it
was a 2010 release).
- NWS' Fightning Steel + Thunder at Sea
- WC: NAW
- Great Naval Battles North Atlantic
- Compete Carriers at War
- War in the Pacific: AE
- Tigers on the Prowl 2/Panthers in the Shadow
- Medieval II Total War + Mods

...With a curious leaning towards naval wargames, but that mostly comes from
reading a lot of books about naval warfare in 2011.

Still, talking of "Ye olde times, ah, the pencil and paper smells of my
high-scool, not to mention how girls were wild!" delusions, it is worth
noticing that *direct* comparison shows how, in many cases, they are not
delusions at all:

- Tigers on the Prowl 2 > Tigers Unleashed
- Complete Carriers at War > Matrix's Carriers at War
- Harpoon Classic > Harpoon 3/ANW/whatever

The only "heritage" game that managed to uphold the original's level of
quality was, among those that I played, "Panzer Corps". That's makes for a
75% "no, it was not a delusion" record.


PeterX

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Jan 16, 2012, 6:18:25 AM1/16/12
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One is entitled to wonder whether PC won because of its greatness as
wargame, a bold step forward in the hobby. Or its victory reflects,
from certain quarters, the abomination of Battlefront and all its
works.

HermanH

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Jan 16, 2012, 7:08:46 AM1/16/12
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On Jan 16, 3:58 am, "Vincenzo Beretta"
At least the WOTY process had more than 16 pathetic voters.

BTW, I'm in the mood for some nostalgia. Does anyone know where to
get a functional North Atlantic '86 by the old SSI?

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 16, 2012, 7:16:05 AM1/16/12
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Its victory reflects the failure of other developers to do better than
an admittedly rather well-done re-imagining of a 20-year old game.

I'm happy for the developer, but fear that the commercial as well as
critical success of this title will enduce other pc wargame developers
to continue making variations on the same tired themes using the same
tired mechanisms and presentation.

The State of the Union of pc wargames is not looking good with 96% of
the titles released having a numeral in their title .. or should have
one.

One of my new year's resolutions was to vote with my wallet even more
and
pc wargame developers obviously don't want my money.

Oh, well, wargame night tomorrow, boardgame night next Friday and
Caylus for the iPad got released today - I'll survive.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Vincenzo Beretta

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Jan 16, 2012, 8:48:04 AM1/16/12
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> BTW, I'm in the mood for some nostalgia. Does anyone know
> where to get a functional North Atlantic '86 by the old SSI?

It is very difficult to find it, because you need to type "North Atlantic 86
SSI" in Google ^^

However it is here:
http://www.virtualapple.org/northatlantic86disk.html

And here is the link to the manua:
http://project64.c64.org/games/m-z/natl8610.zip

It actually runs directly in the browser.

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 18, 2012, 3:52:49 AM1/18/12
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On 16 jan, 09:24, "eddyster...@hotmail.com" <eddyster...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> # 3 - Unity of Command - 21 points

The developer posted about the award on his blog

http://unityofcommand.net/blog/2012/01/17/cast-in-bronze/

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


PeterX

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Jan 18, 2012, 3:40:01 PM1/18/12
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On Jan 16, 4:16 am, "eddyster...@hotmail.com"
<eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 jan, 12:18, PeterX <peteroxfor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One is entitled to wonder whether PC won because of its greatness as
> > wargame, a bold step forward in the hobby. Or its victory reflects,
> > from certain quarters, the abomination of Battlefront and all its
> > works.
>
> Its victory reflects the failure of other developers to do better than
> an admittedly rather well-done re-imagining of a 20-year old game.

Yes, more power to the designer. His repackaging of Panzer General
reminds me of a souped up, cherried out '64 Mustang. A great machine
in its time. Nevertheless voting it WOY strikes me as merely a
punitive vote against BFC. So not this group's finest moment. I would
have understood UoC. That game brought a bit of New to the table.

Vincenzo Beretta

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Jan 18, 2012, 4:53:13 PM1/18/12
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> Yes, more power to the designer. His repackaging of Panzer
> General reminds me of a souped up, cherried out '64
> Mustang. A great machine in its time. Nevertheless
> voting it WOY strikes me as merely a punitive vote against BFC.

Uhm, dunno about "punitive votes", but I voted for the games I *liked* - and
these included a Total War title, which is not among the most welcomed
series here. It even managed to reach the 4th spot.

Regarding "repackaging", one could point out how Matrix's Carrires at War is
a direct repackage of the early title - but, as often noted here, the
original is still *much* better. Repackaging must be done right to get my
vote

I tried the demo of CM:N, got bored and uninstalled it. And that was really
it.

> So not this group's finest moment.

Neither BFC's, for what it matters.

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 19, 2012, 2:05:48 AM1/19/12
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On 18 jan, 21:40, PeterX <peteroxfor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nevertheless voting it WOY strikes me as merely a
> punitive vote against BFC. So not this group's finest moment. I would
> have understood UoC. That game brought a bit of New to the table.

Unfortunately the numbers don't support your theory.

Yes, there were 8 people who gave points to PC and didn't give a
single point to Normandy, but their total points given that way
equaled 20 whereas 5 people voted for Normandy and didn't give a
single point to PC with a total of 23 (4 fives and a three)

Seems to me the pure fanboys are in the Normandy camp.

The reason PC won is because of the people who gave points to *both*,
all except one gave *more* points to PC.

This last point blows your argument of out of the water because if
they were out to "punish" Battlefront, why would they give any points
at all ?

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 19, 2012, 2:07:28 AM1/19/12
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On 18 jan, 22:53, "Vincenzo Beretta" <vincenzo.bere...@fastwebnet.it>
wrote:
>
> I tried the demo of CM:N, got bored and uninstalled it. And that was really
> it.

Same here. Better graphics, but less gameplay than the CM1 games.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Miguel Ramirez

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Jan 19, 2012, 5:51:20 AM1/19/12
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> Yes, more power to the designer. His repackaging of Panzer General
> reminds me of a souped up, cherried out '64 Mustang. A great machine in
> its time. Nevertheless voting it WOY strikes me as merely a punitive
> vote against BFC. So not this group's finest moment. I would have
> understood UoC. That game brought a bit of New to the table.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with UoC bringing anything new to the table
Peter. There's nothing new with UoC. It's only extremely well-packaged,
and with meaningful and "streamlining" done in a wise way. Actually, UoC
owes a great deal to Panzer General as well, in many respects.

Cheers,

Miquel.

Miguel Ramirez

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Jan 19, 2012, 5:53:27 AM1/19/12
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>
> Seems to me the pure fanboys are in the Normandy camp.
>

You're being a bit unfair here - again - Eddy. If you look at the some of
the people who voted for CM:BN - myself included - they can hardly be
qualified as "fanboys".

Cheers,

Miquel.

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 19, 2012, 6:54:14 AM1/19/12
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The data is what it is : people who voted for CM:BN exclusively gave
significantly higher points (four 5's and one 3) to it than people who
voted exclusively for Panzer Corps (two 5's, two 3' and four 1's)

I label that "fanboy votes", YMMV

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 19, 2012, 6:56:46 AM1/19/12
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I kinda agree here - but in a duff year like 2011 great packaging
bested all those that couldn't even reach that level.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

PeterX

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Jan 19, 2012, 1:49:43 PM1/19/12
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> The data is what it is : people who voted for CM:BN exclusively gave
> significantly higher points (four 5's and one 3) to it than people who
> voted exclusively for Panzer Corps (two 5's, two 3' and four 1's)
>
> I label that "fanboy votes", YMMV
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx

No wonder, they banned you. ;)

The game that wins should push the envelope- a little. Disagree about
the game play value of CMBN but Eye of the Beholder and what not....

I never claimed that Battlefront is the most wonderful company out
there or that Gandhi (an exceedingly odd fellow if you research the
guy) re-incarnated as Steve Grammont.

And UoC did, in fact, offer something new; those cute little busts.

KG_Jag

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Jan 19, 2012, 3:12:54 PM1/19/12
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All of this raises the more important question of whether we allow
single game votes at all. If we do,should they be plugged in with
third place point(s).

Miguel Ramirez

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Jan 19, 2012, 3:15:23 PM1/19/12
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> And UoC did, in fact, offer something new; those cute little busts.

<laughs out loud>

Yes, it brought something new on the table, indeed. But well, I don't
certainly see those busts to be "pushing the envelope in computer
wargaming" in any meaningful way ;)

Cheers,

Miquel.

Miguel Ramirez

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Jan 19, 2012, 3:16:19 PM1/19/12
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> All of this raises the more important question of whether we allow
> single game votes at all. If we do,should they be plugged in with third
> place point(s).

That sounds too much like "re-arranging voting districts to get a result
I agree with" :)

Cheers,

Miquel.

PeterX

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Jan 19, 2012, 3:36:37 PM1/19/12
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> Miquel.

Be careful what liquid or hallucinatory substance you intake while
playing. I could picture one of those little busts spilling out of the
monitor and landing on one's desk with a thud. Then fixing you with a
basilisk stare.

I've bought exactly two war games this year: CMBN and WITE. The
latter was a huge mistake. Kind of like owning a massive and
indecipherable Jackson Pollock which dominates the living room and
frightens the cat. Only without the resale value.

Graham Thurlwell

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Jan 19, 2012, 5:05:26 PM1/19/12
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On the 19 Jan 2012, KG_Jag <wbur...@netscape.net> wrote:

<snip>

> All of this raises the more important question of whether we allow
> single game votes at all. If we do,should they be plugged in with
> third place point(s).

Can't see why. I'm one of the people who voted for Panzer Corps and
not CM:BN but that was because Panzer Corps was the only game that I
obtained in 2011 which was released in that year. I don't have a lot
of disposable income and PC was in fact a present. Even if I had paid
for it, I still would've considered it an excellent game.

I did consider getting another wargame for Christmas or my Birthday,
so may have considered CM:BN since there's a demo, but opted for a set
of books. One of the books is now out of print so I probably made the
right decision.

--
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nos...@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

Giftzwerg

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Jan 19, 2012, 5:16:46 PM1/19/12
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In article <2e52cc4f-4738-458c-8ce3-1422f69ca1a4@
18g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, wbur...@netscape.net says...

> > The game that wins should push the envelope- a little. Disagree about
> > the game play value of CMBN but Eye of the Beholder and what not....
> >
> > I never claimed that Battlefront is the most wonderful company out
> > there or that  Gandhi (an exceedingly odd fellow if you research the
> > guy) re-incarnated as Steve Grammont.
> >
> > And UoC did, in fact, offer something new; those cute little busts.
>
> All of this raises the more important question of whether we allow
> single game votes at all. If we do,should they be plugged in with
> third place point(s).

Nah. The "bullet vote" is a time-tested logical method in any election
that features multiple candidates for a limited set of winning slots.



--
Giftzwerg
***
"In short, the myth of Obama?s brilliance was based on his teleprompted
eloquence, the sort of fable that says we should listen to a clueless
Sean Penn or Matt Damon on politics because they can sometimes act
well."
- Victor Davis Hanson

Giftzwerg

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Jan 19, 2012, 5:17:47 PM1/19/12
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In article <jf9tmj$p0f$3...@dont-email.me>, miquel....@gmail.com
says...
Agreed. The only thing that shouldn't be valid is someone voting for
the same game as #1, #2, and #3.

KG_Jag

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Jan 19, 2012, 8:00:57 PM1/19/12
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On Jan 19, 2:17 pm, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jf9tmj$p0...@dont-email.me>, miquel.rami...@gmail.com
No result oriented effort of my part.

I am simply troubled that the fanbois of any particular game in any
particular year can swoop in and stack voting points for their special
game--with none for any other competitor.

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 20, 2012, 2:14:24 AM1/20/12
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On 19 jan, 19:49, PeterX <peteroxfor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The data is what it is : people who voted for CM:BN exclusively gave
> > significantly higher points (four 5's and one 3) to it than people who
> > voted exclusively for Panzer Corps (two 5's, two 3' and four 1's)
>
> > I label that "fanboy votes", YMMV
>
> No wonder, they banned you. ;)

"This Forum has been around for 10 years now. We have never, ever,
even ONCE banned someone for expressing an opinion that is critical of
our work. " - Steve Grammont

Bolgia Ten.

> The game that wins should push the envelope- a little.

Completely agree - look up my vote and discover I'm the only one who
actually voted for the one game that did that : A Few Acres of Snow.

> Disagree about
> the game play value of CMBN but Eye of the Beholder and what not....

The only envelope this one pushed is the graphical one - which I agree
is not unimportant, so sure, better looking toys, but at the same time
it had less toys to play with. Combat Mission was always a box of toys
for me, the bigger the box, the better.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 20, 2012, 2:17:16 AM1/20/12
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On 20 jan, 02:00, KG_Jag <wburb...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> I am simply troubled that the fanbois of any particular game in any
> particular year can swoop in and stack voting points for their special
> game--with none for any other competitor.

We're such a remote corner of the 'net that this has never happened in
the 8 years we've been doing this.

The result is that while I often don't agree with the collective hive-
mind as to what's the WotY, it has *never* been a dud game.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Miguel Ramirez

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Jan 20, 2012, 4:55:11 AM1/20/12
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> Be careful what liquid or hallucinatory substance you intake while
> playing. I could picture one of those little busts spilling out of the
> monitor and landing on one's desk with a thud. Then fixing you with a
> basilisk stare.
>

<laughs out loud> :D

> I've bought exactly two war games this year: CMBN and WITE. The latter
> was a huge mistake. Kind of like owning a massive and indecipherable
> Jackson Pollock which dominates the living room and frightens the cat.
> Only without the resale value.

Well, you can always try to train the cat to help you with the micro-
management ;)

Cheers,

Miquel.

PeterX

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Jan 20, 2012, 5:04:19 PM1/20/12
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> "This Forum has been around for 10 years now. We have never, ever,
> even ONCE banned someone for expressing an opinion that is critical of
> our work. " - Steve Grammont>
> Bolgia Ten.
> Eddy Sterckx

Is this a Dante reference? But I didn't get the joke. If there was
one.

I'm curious to know how you got banned at Battlefront, Eddy. You seem
like a reasonable, room temperature kind of guy. Not a bomb thrower
even if you're wrong quite a bit. ;) If one looks up Dorosh's posts in
the days before he was expelled, it's easy to see why they acted as
they did. Really nasty, unhinged stuff. Even Mother Theresa would have
ponied up for the contract hit.

Vincenzo Beretta

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Jan 20, 2012, 5:22:03 PM1/20/12
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> Is this a Dante reference? But I didn't get the joke. If there
> was one.

Eight Circle (Fraud) Bolgia Ten: "In the final Bolgia, various sorts of
falsifiers (alchemists, counterfeiters, perjurers, and imposters), who are a
"disease" on society"

> I'm curious to know how you got banned at Battlefront, Eddy. You
> seem like a reasonable

I guess you just found the answer :o)

I wasn't banned from Battlefront because I never bothered to go there again,
and there weren't some hidden stunts made by them to warn people about. But
I guess I would have got the boot, had I chosen to speak my mind.

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Jan 20, 2012, 8:01:52 PM1/20/12
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On Jan 20, 11:04 pm, PeterX <peteroxfor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "This Forum has been around for 10 years now. We have never, ever,
> > even ONCE banned someone for expressing an opinion that is critical of
> > our work. " - Steve Grammont>
> > Bolgia Ten.
> > Eddy Sterckx
>
> Is this a Dante reference? But I didn't get the joke. If there was
> one.

Bolgia Ten is a subsection of a circle - it's reserved for liars :)

> I'm curious to know how you got banned at Battlefront, Eddy.

In the days when their DRM got first announced and implemented I was
foolish enough to point out to their customers on their own forum that
when (not if ) Battlefront ever went tits up, they could kiss goodbye
to their DRM'ed game while I'd be happy installing and playing the
original CM games.

> You seem
> like a reasonable, room temperature kind of guy.

Someone who coolly disects a problem or issue is a bigger thread to
some companies than some lunatic's 3-page rant.

It wasn't my first forum ban and it won't be my last :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
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