Charles S. Roberts awards for 2004
eddys...@hotmail.com
The Charles S. Roberts awards - named after the Founding Father of
modern wargaming - is the most prestigious award you can win when
you're a wargame designer.
This years nominees were :
Best Pre-20th Century Era Computer Wargame
· Battleground Gettysburg (HPS Simulations)
· Dragoon (Shrapnel Games)
· Rome Total War (Activision)
Best 20th Century Era Computer Wargame
· Battles in Normandy (Matrix Games)
· War in the Pacific (Matrix Games)
· Hearts of Iron II (Paradox Interactive)
Luckily I'm not a betting man for I would have gone for Dragoon (RTW
having realism problems, Gettysburg being the same-old same-old
BattleGround engine) and WitP (BiN being KP on another front, HoI 2
actually being HoI done right)
And the winners are ...<drums> ... Rome Total War and Battles in
Normandy
Congrats to both Activision and SSG
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
ray o'hara
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123569588.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hi,
The Charles S. Roberts awards - named after the Founding Father of
modern wargaming - is the most prestigious award you can win when
you're a wargame designer.
who sponsors it and who votes?
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> The Charles S. Roberts awards - named after the Founding Father of
> modern wargaming - is the most prestigious award you can win when
> you're a wargame designer.
Would this be the same fuckwitted "awards" nonsense that named "no
winner" as 20th Century PC Wargame of the Year in 2003...
...the year HTTR was released?
--
Giftzwerg
***
"The most despicable misuse of terminology, however, occurs when
Leftists call the Saddamites and foreign jihadists 'the resistance.'
What an example of moral inversion! For the fact is, paramilitary death
squads are attacking the Iraqi people. And those who oppose the killers
- the Iraqi police and National Guardsmen, members of the Allawi
government, people like Nour - they are the "resistance."
- Stephen Vincent
(Journalist murdered by terrorists, 8/2/2005)
Giftzwerg
> The Charles S. Roberts awards - named after the Founding Father of
> modern wargaming - is the most prestigious award you can win when
> you're a wargame designer.
>
>
> who sponsors it and who votes?
http://www.alanemrich.com/CSR_pages/CSRawards.htm
...and...
http://www.consimworld.com/archives/000488.html
...lead me to suspect that a bunch of boardgaming dinosaurs are holding
an *online poll*[1] and pretending that it has some sort of relevance
outside their little cloister.
Yeah. CLICK'n'TWITCH TOTAL WAR. PC-Wargame-O-The-Year. That makes
sense.
[1] US President Howard Dean would be proud of 'em.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Organizer : ConsimWorld / World Boardgame Championships
Sponsor : Forum members - WBC attendees ?? - it costs $18 annually to
have access to the forums - they've got a couple of thousand people
actually paying for a wargame forum :)
Voters : once upon a time it was every gamer willing to vote, now I
assume it's only the forum members that get to vote.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Would this be the same fuckwitted "awards" nonsense that named "no
> winner" as 20th Century PC Wargame of the Year in 2003...
>
> ...the year HTTR was released?
Yup,
But to be fair HTTR was only released december 1st 2003 and was more of
a slow burner than an instant smash hit. It only dawned slowly on
gamers that this was a game that redefined operational level wargaming.
And that it was indeed the best wargame released in 2003.
Going through my old posts it took me until March 2004 to pick it up -
1 week later I was totally hooked on it.
But I did spend the whole month of Februari trying (and failing) to
convince Arjuna to release a demo and didn't stop bugging him until he
gave a complete explanation of the "why" backed-up with some solid
numbers. Plus que ça change ...
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Would this be the same fuckwitted "awards" nonsense that named "no
> > winner" as 20th Century PC Wargame of the Year in 2003...
> >
> > ...the year HTTR was released?
>
> Yup,
>
> But to be fair HTTR was only released december 1st 2003 and was more of
> a slow burner than an instant smash hit. It only dawned slowly on
> gamers that this was a game that redefined operational level wargaming.
> And that it was indeed the best wargame released in 2003.
My point, though, is that a result of "No Winner" for *an entire year*
indicates a profound (and credibility-obliterating...) unseriousness on
the part of this "Awards" process towards computer wargaming.
"No Winner" is as stupid as it is insulting.
I mean, surely *some* PC wargame was released in each of the two
categories allotted in the entire calendar year 2003? It's not like the
categories ("Pre-1900" and "Post-1900") were so fiendishly esoteric
("Best Stalinist Ballet Involving Bathtubs") that no one could think of
anything. Off the top of my head, I could probably think up a dozen
relevant PC wargames released in 2003; these zipperheads couldn't come
up with *one*!?!?!
It's as if "boxing fans" couldn't come up a Boxer Of The Year in 1971
[1]; that indicates that either (a) they're not really boxing fans at
all, or (b) they're not paying attention.
[1] The year of the first Ali-Frazier bout, still claimed by some as
the greatest prizefight of all time.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> My point, though, is that a result of "No Winner" for *an entire year*
> indicates a profound (and credibility-obliterating...) unseriousness on
> the part of this "Awards" process towards computer wargaming.
> "No Winner" is as stupid as it is insulting.
uh-oh, I seem to have completely missed the point - you're right of
course, but that was then. As it only takes one computer-wargame savvy
member of the organizing committee to make some decent nominations (I
can hear you think "decent ! how the fuck did they come up with RTW
then") things might have changed a bit.
That people then actually voted for RTW is maybe indicative for the
appeal such a computer 3D game has on boardgame and miniature gamers.
> I mean, surely *some* PC wargame was released in each of the two
> categories allotted in the entire calendar year 2003?
<Scratching my head> some iteration of TOAW ? a BattleGround game or 2
? I was playing a lot of Strategic Command at the time so I might have
missed a great game then, but I sure can't recall what memorable game
was released in 2003 (apart from HTTR that is)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > My point, though, is that a result of "No Winner" for *an entire year*
> > indicates a profound (and credibility-obliterating...) unseriousness on
> > the part of this "Awards" process towards computer wargaming.
>
> > "No Winner" is as stupid as it is insulting.
>
> uh-oh, I seem to have completely missed the point - you're right of
> course, but that was then. As it only takes one computer-wargame savvy
> member of the organizing committee to make some decent nominations (I
> can hear you think "decent ! how the fuck did they come up with RTW
> then") things might have changed a bit.
>
> That people then actually voted for RTW is maybe indicative for the
> appeal such a computer 3D game has on boardgame and miniature gamers.
My suspicion is that these guys are primarily a bunch of boardgamers who
probably have little to do with the PC wargaming hobby and could care
less about PC gaming. Not that there's anything wrong with that
attitude, of course, but ... are these the guys we PC gamers want to pay
attention to when they're arrogantly naming ROME: TOTAL WAR the Bestest
PC Game Of All Time?
> > I mean, surely *some* PC wargame was released in each of the two
> > categories allotted in the entire calendar year 2003?
>
> <Scratching my head> some iteration of TOAW ? a BattleGround game or 2
> ? I was playing a lot of Strategic Command at the time so I might have
> missed a great game then, but I sure can't recall what memorable game
> was released in 2003 (apart from HTTR that is)
<shrug>
KORSUN POCKET (8/25/03)? COMBAT MISSION: AFRIKA KORPS (12/5/03)?
Coupled with HTTR, I'd say it's arguable (and strongly arguable) that
the three best PC wargames *ever* were released in 2003.
And these zombies sputter "No Winner"?
Eddy Sterckx
news:MPG.1d6295da...@news-east.giganews.com:
> KORSUN POCKET (8/25/03)? COMBAT MISSION: AFRIKA KORPS (12/5/03)?
>
> Coupled with HTTR, I'd say it's arguable (and strongly arguable) that
> the three best PC wargames *ever* were released in 2003.
>
> And these zombies sputter "No Winner"?
Ok - I give in - they were zombies, just give them a chance to clean-up
their act for the future. Considering Dragoon got nominated at least the
nominating committee knows what they are doing.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
--
"Ceterum censeo Belgicam delendam esse."
(Cato, 'Pro Gerolphe')
ray o'hara
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123586699.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
i've always wondered, so there is no magazine to buy ad space in like
computer gaming world. where the winner is the largest advertiser.
Eddy Sterckx
v...@comcast.com:
> i've always wondered, so there is no magazine to buy ad space in like
> computer gaming world. where the winner is the largest advertiser.
Mike Cox
> computer gaming world. where the winner is the largest advertiser.
>
"31 May 1988
CSR AWARDS AUTHORIZATION
Dear Mr. Rodger B. MacGowan,
In regard to your letter and offer of May 26th just received, please be
advised that it is my desire to have the use of my name on the various
"Awards" be accomplished in a manner and in a context that is "independent"
of any commercial connection and "free" from any conflict of interest.
Toward that end, you and your "Charles S. Roberts Awards" Council have my
authority to take all appropriate steps. If any major issue cannot be
resolved in good faith by you and this group, the matter should be referred
to me for decision.
Very Truly Yours,
Charles S. Roberts"
Giftzwerg
mic...@vom.com says...
Well, but this simply raises the obvious question; what - exactly - is
the "manner and context" through which the awards process is
accomplished?
So far as I can determine, one simply pastes a copy of the available-
online ballot into an email and transmits it to the appropriate address.
Damned if I can see where there's any sort of control on this, and if
not, the potential abuses are legion - and the statistical accuracy is
highly questionable.
If any balloonhead on the internet can vote willy-nilly (and as many
times as he likes...) then (a) any claim to this award being
"prestigious" is specious, and (b) any results are invalid right outta
the starting gate.
Eddy Sterckx
news:MPG.1d62ac6fa...@news-east.giganews.com:
> So far as I can determine, one simply pastes a copy of the available-
> online ballot into an email and transmits it to the appropriate
> address. Damned if I can see where there's any sort of control on
> this, and if not, the potential abuses are legion - and the
> statistical accuracy is highly questionable.
Wargamers are such an honest bunch that this isn't an issue ? :)
> If any balloonhead on the internet can vote willy-nilly (and as many
> times as he likes...) then (a) any claim to this award being
> "prestigious" is specious,
My claim - me and that award go way back - fond memories and all that -
bought a couple of boardgames based on it getting the award - was never
disappointed.
> and (b) any results are invalid right outta
> the starting gate.
Yeah, I know, it's as water-tight as a bucket without a bottom - not
like the little poll I held in here last january :)
Basically an award gets it's prestige from looking back at the winners
in the past and counting the amount of turkeys versus the games you
remember fondly - no turkeys in the lists as far as I can tell - in that
sense the award is still prestigious in my eyes.
ray o'hara
"Eddy Sterckx" <eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADBA37CD6B7ed...@216.143.170.48...
> "ray o'hara" <r...@comcast.net> wrote in news:G-CdnefpuMNRS2XfRVn-
> v...@comcast.com:
>
> > i've always wondered, so there is no magazine to buy ad space in like
> > computer gaming world. where the winner is the largest advertiser.
>
> I sense a juicy story in there - do continue
i would imagine they operate like car mags, buy advertizing, give them some
product to use and you win the "of the year award".
ray o'hara
"Eddy Sterckx" <eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADDC89A554Aed...@67.98.68.21...
i agree , many of those games i've owned over the years.
ray o'hara
> Giftzwerg <giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1d6295da...@news-east.giganews.com:
>
> > KORSUN POCKET (8/25/03)? COMBAT MISSION: AFRIKA KORPS (12/5/03)?
> >
> > Coupled with HTTR, I'd say it's arguable (and strongly arguable) that
> > the three best PC wargames *ever* were released in 2003.
> >
> > And these zombies sputter "No Winner"?
>
> Ok - I give in - they were zombies, just give them a chance to clean-up
> their act for the future. Considering Dragoon got nominated at least the
> nominating committee knows what they are doing.
>
gifthorse would bitch if they picked a game in a year when they all sucked.
bitching is what he does.
Dan
Isn't Dragoon a little of the same old too? Horse and Musket preceded
it and before that was... ummm.. Dragoon! Same engine... same
scenarios... older graphics.
Arjuna
Thanks for coming to our defence - much appreciated. However, in all
honesty HTTR was only released on the 12 December 2003 IRC and I must
admit that I was not even aware that the Charlies were still alive. So
I failed to notify them about its release. These things happen. :)
I would like to add that my office wall still sports the Charlie we won
back in 1988 for Fire-Brigade and I am very proud of it.
Rest assured I'll make a point of notifying the awards committee when
COTA is released real soon now. :))
Giftzwerg
da...@panthergames.com says...
> Thanks for coming to our defence - much appreciated. However, in all
> honesty HTTR was only released on the 12 December 2003 IRC and I must
> admit that I was not even aware that the Charlies were still alive. So
> I failed to notify them about its release. These things happen. :)
<shrug>
It seems to me that any valid awards process must *first* determine any
and all designs that are eligible for consideration. I get the feeling
that their nomination process is as fucked-up as their balloting
procedure.
[And what does it say about their process that apparently *every*
designer forgot to "notify them" about their 2003 releases?]
eddys...@hotmail.com
Dan schreef:
Yup, didn't say I would have voted for Dragoon - I would have *betted*
on it as ConsimWorld has a lot of Nappy and pre-Nappy players.
I like innovation (when done right that is) so allthough not nominated
I would have gone for Tin Soldiers : Alexander the Great in the
pre-20th century category.
But if I *really* had to choose between the 3 nominated games my vote
would have gone to RTW. The tactical battles are truely awfull, but the
strategic portion is a game in itself. I had such high hopes for this
game after an early beta was used in the tv series "Time Commanders".
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Frank E
>I would like to add that my office wall still sports the Charlie we won
>back in 1988 for Fire-Brigade and I am very proud of it.
You should be proud (of the game, not the award). The combination of
AI, UI and playability put most of the wargames that came out over the
next 10 years to shame. Hell, half the wargames published these days
aren't up to it's standards.
I don't know how well it did commercially but it's definitely
something to be proud of.
Rgds, Frank