HPS Renaissance and Chancellorsville new ready for shipping!

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Warship NWS

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Mar 6, 2009, 4:54:26 AM3/6/09
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HPS Renaissance and Chancellorsville new ready for shipping!

See our online store front page for details, http://www.nws-online.net

Thanks.
Christopher Dean
NWS Online Combat Gaming Store
Director of Operations

Giftzwerg

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Mar 6, 2009, 4:57:38 AM3/6/09
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In article <0cae5423-548e-48b5-aebe-
67f58e...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Wars...@yahoo.com says...

> HPS Renaissance and Chancellorsville new ready for shipping!
>
> See our online store front page for details, http://www.nws-online.net

Chancellorsville? Didn't that come out in 1996?


--
Giftzwerg
***
"The markets' recent precipitous decline is a reaction not just to the
absence of any plausible bank rescue plan, but also to the suspicion
that Obama sees the continuing financial crisis as usefully creating the
psychological conditions -- the sense of crisis bordering on fear-itself
panic -- for enacting his 'Big Bang' agenda."
- Charles Krauthammer

Nine Train

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Mar 6, 2009, 6:16:20 AM3/6/09
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On Mar 6, 4:54 am, Warship NWS <Warshi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> HPS Renaissance and Chancellorsville new ready for shipping!

Would you characterize the new Renaissance series to be more like the
Pz Campaign series or like the Punic War series? (i.e. which engine
is driving this game and if it is totally new, which of the above does
it mirror most closely?)

masterm...@gmail.com

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Mar 6, 2009, 6:29:11 AM3/6/09
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Just looking at the one screenshot I'm thinking it's more closely
related to the American Civil War series engine. However, the text at
http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/muandpire.html would seem
to indicate some substantial changes. Specifically, "A vastly expanded
style of OOB that allows for many attributes to be set on a unit by
unit basis instead of globally, such as: • Movement allowance •
Victory point value • Melee bonus value • Armored value". There's only
a scenario editor mentioned, I would hope that there would be others.
Heck, I'll get it, I'm a HPS-whore ;-)

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Mar 6, 2009, 6:36:23 AM3/6/09
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From the screenshots and description over at

http://www.wargamer.com/article/2666/hps-launches-2-new-games

I'd say it's a modified PzC engine, aka the Battleground engine, while
the Punic Wars series is a totally different engine.

That said, I like the immense variety on offer in this title so I'll
probably check it out some time in the future.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Vincenzo Beretta

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Mar 6, 2009, 6:40:14 AM3/6/09
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>That said, I like the immense variety on offer in this title

"With Renaissance, you can refight the Italian Wars between France, Spain
and the Habsburgs, as well as cross swords in the various Anglo-Scottish
battles of the 16th century, or lead Ottoman armies against Persians,
Mamelukes and Western Christendom! Experience the pike & shot warfare of the
French Wars of Religion and the Dutch Revolt against Spanish rule."

and

"112 stand alone scenarios and 5 campaigns to choose from with another 115
scenarios specifically for the campaigns"

O___o

For sure it doesn't look like the usual "Western Omaha Beach in 450
scenarios!" fare.


Brett S.

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:00:50 PM3/6/09
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On Mar 6, 3:54 am, Warship NWS <Warshi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> HPS Renaissance and Chancellorsville new ready for shipping!
>
> See our online store front page for details,http://www.nws-online.net

>
> Thanks.
> Christopher Dean
> NWS Online Combat Gaming Store
> Director of Operations

Chancellorsville huh? This is the first HPS Civil War title I had
zero input into. I'm going to have to go check it out! I'm
especially curious how a full day scenario would work.
Chancellorsville has got to be one of the hardest battles in history
to model correctly. I mean, seriously, who doesn't know Jackson is
coming after their right? :-)

Brett

Brett S.

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:06:33 PM3/6/09
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On Mar 6, 11:00 am, "Brett S." <br...@brettschulte.net> wrote:
>
> Chancellorsville huh?  This is the first HPS Civil War title I had
> zero input into.  I'm going to have to go check it out!  I'm
> especially curious how a full day scenario would work.
> Chancellorsville has got to be one of the hardest battles in history
> to model correctly.  I mean, seriously, who doesn't know Jackson is
> coming after their right?  :-)
>
> Brett

I checked it out a little further and it looks like they are doing
Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, and some of the cavalry fights which
occurred around this time.

Brett

Giftzwerg

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:33:08 PM3/6/09
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In article <a96710fe-0d12-4a48-9e6f-
b2e768...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, br...@brettschulte.net
says...

> Chancellorsville has got to be one of the hardest battles in history
> to model correctly. I mean, seriously, who doesn't know Jackson is
> coming after their right? :-)

Or that Lee only has 15,000 troops to Hooker's front.

Giftzwerg

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:34:49 PM3/6/09
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In article <2491a89e-750d-41c1-a01c-4684864f0c92
@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com>, br...@brettschulte.net says...

> I checked it out a little further and it looks like they are doing
> Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, and some of the cavalry fights which
> occurred around this time.

I'd say Fredericksburg would be even harder to model than
Chancellorsville. What union player is going to just assault blindly up
the hill and take his lumps? And if you give the Union player the
option to not-be-so-dumb, you'll have modeled some other battle
entirely.

Mike Cox

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:46:08 PM3/6/09
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"Nine Train" <09.t...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:81cd6f70-7e99-4b0f...@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

I am pretty sure it was developed as an offshoot of the Napoleonic engine.
(FWIW Punic Wars is not a John Tiller game.)

Mike


Brett S.

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:52:41 PM3/6/09
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On Mar 6, 11:34 am, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <2491a89e-750d-41c1-a01c-4684864f0c92
> @w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com>, br...@brettschulte.net says...
>
> > I checked it out a little further and it looks like they are doing
> > Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, and some of the cavalry fights which
> > occurred around this time.
>
> I'd say Fredericksburg would be even harder to model than
> Chancellorsville.  What union player is going to just assault blindly up
> the hill and take his lumps?  And if you give the Union player the
> option to not-be-so-dumb, you'll have modeled some other battle
> entirely.
>
> --
> Giftzwerg

Probably true. I think that's why you don't see too many games
featuring these two battles unless there is serious fog-of-war,
numerous rules to handicap the Union player, and plenty of what-if
battles to keep things interesting. I think Chancellorsville is
similar to the discussions on this group about France in 1940. What
result is "typical"? I would argue not the historical one. How many
times would Jackson's attack have succeeded? Would Hooker have pulled
back if not getting knocked senseless at the Chancellor house?

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Mar 6, 2009, 12:54:25 PM3/6/09
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On 6 mrt, 18:34, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <2491a89e-750d-41c1-a01c-4684864f0c92
> @w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com>, br...@brettschulte.net says...
>
> > I checked it out a little further and it looks like they are doing
> > Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, and some of the cavalry fights which
> > occurred around this time.
>
> I'd say Fredericksburg would be even harder to model than
> Chancellorsville.  What union player is going to just assault blindly up
> the hill and take his lumps?  

<evil bastard mode>
The one who only has 25 turns to take the major victory location up
there ?
</evil bastard mode>

> And if you give the Union player the
> option to not-be-so-dumb, you'll have modeled some other battle
> entirely.

Yeah, and then you get complaints from the battle-must-be-history-on-
railway-tracks guys.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

DirkG

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Mar 6, 2009, 4:13:33 PM3/6/09
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My guess would be the Early American Wars (1776/1812/FIW/MAW). It plays
at company level rather than regiments or battalions. However, even so
I think it would be heavily modified as a series of it's own.

Brett S.

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Mar 6, 2009, 5:09:51 PM3/6/09
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Bill Peters, an HPS designer, said it is a modified version of the
Napoleonic Campaigns engine over at The Mason-Dixon Tavern.

Dav Vandenbroucke

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Mar 6, 2009, 5:10:08 PM3/6/09
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On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 04:57:38 -0500, Giftzwerg
<giftzw...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Chancellorsville? Didn't that come out in 1996?

Nope. 1961.

Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

Mike Kreuzer

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Mar 6, 2009, 5:12:48 PM3/6/09
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<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4df2e84a-f827-4534...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

Would these be the same guys who say that French morale collapsed before the
ground campaign started, and that might be worth modelling somewhere ...
<walks away innocently whistling/>

I wouldn't usually go in for:
- a HPS cookie cutter game,
- or a physical shipment only game,

But tie in my wanting to get SAS, & the HPS Naval Campaigns games, & an
interest in pre 19th century warfare kindled by (but not nearly satisfied
by) Empire Total War, & I'm inching closer ...

Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com

DirkG

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Mar 6, 2009, 7:22:41 PM3/6/09
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Yeah, I saw that after I posted. I assumed unit sizes would be smaller,
but maybe not.

Giftzwerg

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Mar 6, 2009, 9:00:05 PM3/6/09
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In article <mp73r4dncegfori9g...@4ax.com>,
dav_and_france...@compuserve.com says...

> >Chancellorsville? Didn't that come out in 1996?
>
> Nope. 1961.

I stand corrected.

...

--
Giftzwerg
***
"A combative President Barack Obama warned on Saturday he was bracing
for a fight against powerful lobbyists and special interests who sought
to pick apart the $3.55 trillion budget he wants to advance his agenda
of reform."
- Reuters
"Here's a fucking clue, Reuters; every fucking lobbyist and special
interest in Washington is lighting cigars with $100 bills at the
thought of getting their hands on $3.55T in Democrat-doled out
government bucks. *Fuck*, but the media is dishonest."
- Giftzwerg

Nine Train

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Mar 6, 2009, 9:10:33 PM3/6/09
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On Mar 6, 5:09 pm, "Brett S." <br...@brettschulte.net> wrote:

> Bill Peters, an HPS designer, said it is a modified version of the
> Napoleonic Campaigns engine over at The Mason-Dixon Tavern.

Good to hear it's not the Punic Wars engine, which I didn't really
like much.

KG_Jag

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Mar 7, 2009, 9:03:37 AM3/7/09
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On Mar 6, 8:00 pm, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <mp73r4dncegfori9g4p3l9aa2ncr8ir...@4ax.com>,
> dav_and_frances_vandenbrou...@compuserve.com says...

Chancellorsville was one of the first four or so games released by
Avalon Hill. It is also the first (or at least one of the first) they
dropped--before riving it years later.

Nine Train

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Mar 7, 2009, 9:47:42 AM3/7/09
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On Mar 7, 9:03 am, KG_Jag <wburb...@netscape.net> wrote:
                                     - Giftzwerg
>
> Chancellorsville was one of the first four or so games released by
> Avalon Hill.  It is also the first (or at least one of the first) they
> dropped--before riving it years later.- Hide quoted text -
>

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/54981?size=original

Giftzwerg

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Mar 7, 2009, 11:12:39 AM3/7/09
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In article <3060cd7e-f221-4eb8-b3bc-
e92892...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, wbur...@netscape.net
says...
> > > >Chancellorsville?  Didn't that come out in 1996?
> >
> > > Nope.  1961.
> >
> > I stand corrected.

> Chancellorsville was one of the first four or so games released by


> Avalon Hill. It is also the first (or at least one of the first) they
> dropped--before riving it years later.

I thought it was BATTLEGROUND VIIIII or something, though.

DirkG

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Mar 7, 2009, 1:23:46 PM3/7/09
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YGiftzwerg wrote:
> In article <3060cd7e-f221-4eb8-b3bc-
> e92892...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, wbur...@netscape.net
> says...
>>>>> Chancellorsville? Didn't that come out in 1996?
>>>> Nope. 1961.
>>> I stand corrected.
>
>> Chancellorsville was one of the first four or so games released by
>> Avalon Hill. It is also the first (or at least one of the first) they
>> dropped--before riving it years later.
>
> I thought it was BATTLEGROUND VIIIII or something, though.
>
ou may be thinking about the last BG game of the series, BG 9
Chickamauga. There was a scenario made by someone for the Battleground
series for Fredricksburg. I played that one, and wisely avoided Marye's
Heights and won big. So the scenario certainly needed some work for
play balance. There's probably a BG scenario floating around somewhere
for Chancellorsville too.

Raymond O'Hara

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Mar 7, 2009, 1:36:55 PM3/7/09
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"DirkG" <a...@a.com> wrote in message news:goue3s$vgg$1...@news.motzarella.org...


if burnside had avoided Marye's heights he might have won big too.


Jan Szkudlin'ski

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Mar 7, 2009, 2:52:30 PM3/7/09
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DirkG pisze:

There's probably a BG scenario floating around somewhere
> for Chancellorsville too.

There is, but with very, very inaccurate map and OOB.

Regards,

Jan Szkudlinski

Raymond O'Hara

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Mar 7, 2009, 3:16:34 PM3/7/09
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"Brett S." <br...@brettschulte.net> wrote in message
news:b6b3fa5e-5e86-46ad...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...


===================================================================

yeah. games that model battles that were the result of serios incompetence
on the part of one commander make difficult situations.
but the fact is there is no reason the union couldn't have behaved
differently at both battles.
attacking the confederate right was a viable option and the union attack
there gained some success but it wasn't exploited.

C-ville is different as the union army just sat there all day and allowed
the CSA to divide its forces and do a flank march across its front deploy an
attack. that march and deployment took close to 10-11 hours all of which saw
the union inactive.
you can either handicap the Union to the point it would be no fun for them
or allow the Union to move which would make it no fun for the CSA.


eddys...@hotmail.com

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Mar 10, 2009, 5:19:35 AM3/10/09
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On 6 mrt, 12:36, "eddyster...@hotmail.com" <eddyster...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> On 6 mrt, 12:16, Nine Train <09.tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Would you characterize the new Renaissance series to be more like the
> > Pz Campaign series or like the Punic War series?  (i.e. which engine
> > is driving this game and if it is totally new, which of the above does
> > it mirror most closely?)
>
> That said, I like the immense variety on offer in this title so I'll
> probably check it out some time in the future.

The scenario list is up here : http://forums.gamesquad.com/blog.php?b=608

and I must say that I'm getting this one for sure as it has a boatload
of battles of the Dutch revolt against the Spanish, including a battle
which took place about 5 km from where I grew up.

There's also confirmation that there will be a follow-up game in this
new series.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

DirkG

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Mar 10, 2009, 9:01:49 PM3/10/09
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I'm curious...

I wonder why you'd bother as you've been vocal about disliking pretty
much every version of "tiller sausage", so why do you think you'll like
the Battlegound Bulge engine adapted to this era? I understand the
period is underrepresented in gaming, but I expect the usual complaints
about poor AI, turns, hexes, and so on.

Just sayin'...

eddys...@hotmail.com

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Mar 11, 2009, 8:45:17 AM3/11/09
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On 11 mrt, 02:01, DirkG <a...@a.com> wrote:
>
> I'm curious...
>
> I wonder why you'd bother as you've been vocal about disliking pretty
> much every version of "tiller sausage"

I think I'll have to call "cite" on this as I think I'm a bit more
evenhanded than that.

Here, I'll help you a bit - from a post by me back in 2004 :

"Which is - for me at least - the ideal scale for ACW games, hence I
pretty much enjoyed the Campaign Corinth game. The Battleground engine
was conceived for ACW and Napoleonic stuff and is still best suited to
those era's. "

From the same post :

"The Battleground engine was and is a good design ... for ACW
battles."

> so why do you think you'll like
> the Battlegound Bulge engine adapted to this era?  

Because as I said above, back in 2004 : the Battleground engine kinda
works for older eras. I can see it working for musket & pike warfare
and I'm interested in some of the battles it covers.

> I understand the period is underrepresented in gaming, but I expect the usual complaints about poor AI, turns,
> hexes, and so on.

> Just sayin'...

Got Squad Battles : Pacific War recently and in the next dry spell of
wargame releases plan to give it a spin and post some comments. They
problably won't be unending, gushing praise of the engine, but it
won't be "vocal disliking" either.

Just counter-sayin' :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

DirkG

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Mar 11, 2009, 5:33:22 PM3/11/09
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I stand corrected... :)

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