MOO: Best Ship Size
Octavio Motta
What is the best ship size for the fighter and bombing missions?
So far I prefer Huge ships full of weapons for ship-to-ship
fighting and small, fast and well-protected small bombers for the
dirty job. Excactly the opposite of the 'normal' configuration of
small fighters and big bombers that can be found based on the current
techonological level.
>> Delance << delance.ax.apc.org
Octavio Motta delance.jur.puc-rio.br
James E Sexton
:
: What is the best ship size for the fighter and bombing missions?
[octavio prefers huge fighters and small bombers]
I agree with the *fast* bombers - it is essential to shut up the planets
missle bases ASAP. I go for speed, and then the most armor/missle
defense I can in the largest hull I can make that is still really fast...
usually I end up with a medium.
As for fighters - for beamers go small and fast with huge stacks... they
need to be able to close in to their target before torpedos destroy them.
Later on some beamers become medium size to fit in the tastier beamer
weapons (like those that fire 2 spaces).
-if you are lucky enought to get energy focus (+3 spaces for energy
weapons) Treat your beamers like fast torp ships.
-if you get repulsors, switch to beamers that fire 2 spaces, and put
repulsors on your torp ships, or make large beamer ships.
- for torpedo ships, go large with an emphasis on missle
defense, armor/shields and a battle computer. They need to be able to
stand back and toss in a decent barage while withstanding the enemies barage.
I never use huge... too much $, and I'll probably be upgrading before I
get a sizable number of them out.
jim s
rosalyn rice
compromise between speed of production and survivability. Also, large
hulls usually allow you to put in your best armor, shields, ecm and
computer while still retaining space for a decent weapon (or a lot of
smaller weapons to cope with small ships).
The only time that I build fighters is when I need any ship with
a weapon quickly. Like when the enemy starts arming colony ships or
scouts or when there is some low-powered ship that is bombing one of my
planets early in the game. In these cases I can't get a missile base
built soon enough, but sometimes a few fighters can save the day.
I've never built medium ships, except very late in the game when
you can stick a colony base on a medium hull. Then I use medium hulls as
the basis for colony ships.
The only use that I've found for Huge hulls, is either as
completely unarmed "bluff" ships (since the computer figures fleet
strength on size, not power, this seems to work to keep the peace) or
else as mammoth planet destroyers against a superior enemy late in the game.
In one game I had, I had to fight a "final war" against a superior
enemy. I could hold my own due to missile bases, but I couldn't attack
effectively due to enemy missiles and the huge enemy fleets. Only a very
powerful, very fast, huge "bomber" type ship could get close enough to a
planet fast enough to obliterate it before the ships were vaporized. Using
huge bombers as kamikazes I was gradually able to obliterate the enemy's
rear areas and weaken them to the point where I was able to expand safely
and ultimately win.
L
Robert Benjamin Favre
: The only use that I've found for Huge hulls, is either as
: strength on size, not power, this seems to work to keep the peace) or
: else as mammoth planet destroyers against a superior enemy late in the game.
: In one game I had, I had to fight a "final war" against a superior
: enemy. I could hold my own due to missile bases, but I couldn't attack
: effectively due to enemy missiles and the huge enemy fleets. Only a very
: powerful, very fast, huge "bomber" type ship could get close enough to a
: planet fast enough to obliterate it before the ships were vaporized. Using
: huge bombers as kamikazes I was gradually able to obliterate the enemy's
: rear areas and weaken them to the point where I was able to expand safely
: and ultimately win.
I think that small hulls make excellent bombers. Think about it: even
if your enemy has 30 bases with missiles, they can only kill a maximum of
90 ships per turn. It will probably kill a lot fewer than that if your
ships have cloaking devices/lightning shields, and don't forget that
small hulls get a +2 bonus to defense. These same 30 bases would be able to
inflict heavy damage on huge ships (especially since they have a -1 modifier
to defense.) For the price of 1 huge ship (approx. 4000) you can build
about 200 small bombers (cost about 20 each.) Depending on your tech
level, I don't think you'll be able to fit 200 bombs onto a single huge ship.
Note: *do not* try using small ships if your opponent has scatter pack
missiles, they will be slaughtered at a frightening rate :-)
--
Rob Favre - robf...@umich.edu
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~robfavre
========================================
"Gee, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines."
- Gen. Buck Turgenson
Beowulf92
ror...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) writes:
> I've never built medium ships, except very late in the game when
>you can stick a colony base on a medium hull. Then I use medium hulls as
>the basis for colony ships.
As with any other aspect of this game, the race you choose usually has an
impact on what size ship you should build. Races with production bonuses
(Klackons, Mecklars) can build larger ships earlier.
Medium ships are the staple of my early-game fleet. They are relatively
cheap, and you can include your second-best computer, shields, and ECM
technologies along with your best engines, armor, and one weapon (best
beam or missile). It is easy to build swarms of them quickly. By
attacking, retreating, and then sending them back to the planet in the
same turn, you can quickly turn an annoying fleet into a powerful strike
force as more reinforcements arrive.
> I invariably go with a Large hull. It seems to offer the best
>compromise between speed of production and survivability. Also, large
>hulls usually allow you to put in your best armor, shields, ecm and
>computer while still retaining space for a decent weapon (or a lot of
>smaller weapons to cope with small ships).
Large hulls are a commodity early on. You have too many other priorities
to worry about to tie up your production efforts to build a single ship.
If it is destroyed, your fleet takes a huge loss. Once again, we're
talking about the early- to mid game here.
> The only use that I've found for Huge hulls, is either as
>completely unarmed "bluff" ships (since the computer figures fleet
>strength on size, not power, this seems to work to keep the peace) or
>else as mammoth planet destroyers against a superior enemy late in the
game.
What goes for large ships goes double (or more) for huge ones. They're
just not practical until the mid- to late game. Using them as a bluff is
an interesting strategy, although it's a little expensive to build huge
ships that can do absolutely nothing but take up space.
One use for huge ships is to build a "phantom fleet." Design a huge ship
with the maximum technology you have, then devote a couple of planets to
constructing this monster. The building time is usually 20 or more turns.
Before that huge ship is completed, turn the production over to a smaller
design. You can get several ships in one turn this way--even
well-equipped large ones. This is a good method to use if you're waiting
to research a specific technology, and want to get started building the
ships that will utilize it. For example, after you've researched Subspace
Teleporters, design your bomber, change the planets that are building the
huge ships over to building these new bombers, and one turn later you're
ready to rock and roll. ;-)
Very respectfully,
Beowulf92
"If that fellow wants a fight, we won't disappoint him." Captain Isaac
Hull, U.S.S. Constitution, 1811.
Ralph Betza
above can efficiently obliterate the enemy defenses before getting hit.
With speed 4, move straight up, in line with the planet, then avoid the
missiles by moving diagonally up twice, forward once, and diagonal down.
Drop the bombs. If any bases survive, hope that you got more than half of
them, because you just get one more boomboom before the missiles hit.
With speed above 4, you do almost the same thing, but can dance around
and drop quite a few bombs before getting hit.
If there are ships defending, consider retreating and trying some other
planet.
If the enemy has no scatterpack missiles, your bombers might get hit when
they do this. Give them away!!!! Scatterpacks are slower than other
missiles; if you make a little gift to the computer, your fast bombers
will live longer.
The computers have a saying: beware of geeks bearing gifts.
Kuo-Sheng Kasey Chang
robf...@umich.edu (Robert Benjamin Favre) wrote:
>rosalyn rice (ror...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
>: The only use that I've found for Huge hulls, is either as
>: strength on size, not power, this seems to work to keep the peace)
>:In one game I had, I had to fight a "final war" against a superior
>: effectively due to enemy missiles and huge enemy fleets. Only very
>: powerful, very fast, huge "bomber" ship could get close enough to a
>: planet fast to obliterate it before ships were vaporized. Using
>: huge bombers as kamikazes I was able to obliterate the enemy's
>: rear areas and weaken them to where I was able to expand safely
>: and ultimately win.
First comment: you should have used MISSILES, not bombs, in that case.
Fire twice, RUN. The 2-rack missiles have a +1 speed bonus also. This
is known as the "raider" design in the Official MOO Strategy Guide.
>I think small hulls make excellent bombers. Think about it: even
>if your enemy has 30 bases missiles, they can only kill a maximum of
>90 ships per turn. It will probably kill fewer than that if your
>ships have cloaking devices/lightning shields, and don't forget that
>small hulls get +2 bonus defense. These same 30 bases would
>inflict heavy damage on huge ships (since they have a -1 modifier
>to defense.)
Not true if the bases have scatter pack missiles or good shields.
Also, if the enemy have repellers (ships with anti-tractors) sitting
next to the planet you're still toast.
>For the price of 1 huge ship (approx. 4000) you can build
>about 200 small bombers (cost about 20 each.) Depending on your tech
>level, I don't think you can fit 200 bombs onto a single huge ship.
>Note: *do not* use small ships if your opponent has scatter pack
>missiles, they will be slaughtered at a frightening rate :-)
Exactly.
Smaller ships are useful at the opening stages because they're easy to
build. As the game wore on you need larger and larger ships.
=========================================================================
Kasey K. S. Chang (a guy) | Paradox for Windows Programmer
kas...@discopy.com ks...@aol.com | Star Trek Fan General PC Expert
URL> http://members.aol.com/ksc1 | X-COM Guru among other things...
=========================================================================
Adam Wolfe Littman
Kuo-Sheng "Kasey" Chang <kas...@discopy.com> wrote:
>>: The only use that I've found for Huge hulls, is either as
>>: completely unarmed "bluff" ships (since the computer figures fleet
>
>Also, if the enemy have repellers (ships with anti-tractors) sitting
>next to the planet you're still toast.
>
>build. As the game wore on you need larger and larger ships.
I find the opposite to be true. Huge ships at the beginning because they
can take a lot of small hits without being hurt permanently. Small ships
rule the end-game. Once you have high enough tech to put a sub-space
teleporter, fast engines, (and or an inertial nulifier), with maybe a
battle scanner for that extra ounce of initiative. Oh and I almost
forgot, a bio-weapon for which the antidote hasn't been discovered. Build
fleets of 300 (1000 if the enemy has good stack killers), teleport in,
drop the spores and retreat. Then leave the contaminated lifeless world
and move on the the next one. There is a cascade effect as this goes on.
With fast ships and a good ultra-rich planet, you can kill as many
planets as you want to. Also when the planets are recolonized the
computer doesn't fix them, so you have planets sitting there with loads
of factories and 10 people.
A.Littman (genocidal madman :-)
Joseph I. Valenzuela
: In article <4l8o3e$d...@Milpitas01.News.Internex.NET>,
: Kuo-Sheng "Kasey" Chang <kas...@discopy.com> wrote:
: >Smaller ships are useful at the opening stages because they're easy to
: >build. As the game wore on you need larger and larger ships.
: I find the opposite to be true. Huge ships at the beginning because they
: can take a lot of small hits without being hurt permanently. Small ships
: rule the end-game.
I think it follows a bell-shaped curve --- in the begining of a
game, I can hardly afford the massive hulls, so I build small and
medium sized ships. These complement planetary-misssle bays
well, so they are defensive in nature.
One I have a decent planetary base (say, twnety planets), all of which
are well defended by planetary misslbe bays and small ships, I
build large-ships. Two or Three are commissioned at a time, and I
circulate their decommision every time I make a good combination
of weapon/computer/sheild advances.
These ships are characterised by Tachyon Beams, or (what are they
called?) Mega-blasters (the ones that do +3 damage). A few hundered
of each with a heavy emphasis on mobility. That begins to usher in
my new era of expansion and war.
Once I defeat Orion, I start building huge ships, fitting as many
death rays/ mauolers/ disrupters I can on each. These are nice
because not only do they serve as decent warships, they replace
bombers as well.
After wiping out a sizable chunk of my enemies, I start building
small ships again, mostly because it becomes easier to fit large
weapons on small ships. Towards one end-game, I build a 30k fleet
of medium ships armed with death rays. I had to split them up
just to enjoy them (as a group of ten often coudl destroy an entire
enemy fleet!
--
Joseph I. Valenzuela -- tsao...@empirenet.com
http://www.empirenet.com/~tsaotsao
Oppose the ANTI-JOE. Just say no to the VOODOO GLOW SKULLS
Peter
>
> I find the opposite to be true. Huge ships at the beginning because they
> can take a lot of small hits without being hurt permanently. Small ships
> teleporter, fast engines, (and or an inertial nulifier), with maybe a
> battle scanner for that extra ounce of initiative. Oh and I almost
> forgot, a bio-weapon for which the antidote hasn't been discovered. Build
> fleets of 300 (1000 if the enemy has good stack killers), teleport in,
> drop the spores and retreat. Then leave the contaminated lifeless world
> and move on the the next one. There is a cascade effect as this goes on.
> With fast ships and a good ultra-rich planet, you can kill as many
> planets as you want to. Also when the planets are recolonized the
> computer doesn't fix them, so you have planets sitting there with loads
> of factories and 10 people.
>
> A.Littman (genocidal madman :-)
Hey that's pretty good. Too bad it ruins your standing with the other
races.
Peter77
Adam Wolfe Littman
>Adam Wolfe Littman wrote:
*Deleted stuff about large bio-death fleets of small ships*
>Hey that's pretty good. Too bad it ruins your standing with the other
>races.
>
>Peter77
If you have as little as 10% of the planets you can win the game before the
diplomatic consequences catch up. If you set all your planets building
ships like that you can wipe out the rest of the races in about 10 turns.
(assuming good production *Klackons RULE*) With 1/3 of the planets you
can do it in 4-5 turns. This counts newly founded planets. This is a
blunt force move and it works best on those who are your allies. Get
an alliance with the biggest (greatest number of planets) or most
powerful race (other than you) and poise your fleets about every planet
in their empire. Break the alliance and hit next turn. Wreck the whole
empire. Then move to the next most powerful. The ultimate goal of this
strategy is to hit every planet other than yours and leave them at 10 max
population. And if you feel ambitious for land invade after that.
The key is in the blitzkreig. And the destruction of livability not of lives.
A.Littman