CIV2: Trade Routes to own cities better?
Carsten Engelmann
I have the impression that in CIV2 it's much better to send caravans and
freights to my own cities. Considering that they are much faster
to establish and much safer.
Does anybody know the trade formula?
What's your opinion?
-Carsten
Don Melsom
In article <1996May5....@yacc.central.de> en...@yacc.central.de (Carsten Engelmann) writes:
>From: en...@yacc.central.de (Carsten Engelmann)
>Subject: CIV2: Trade Routes to own cities better?
>Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:29:08 GMT
I would second that. Mind you, I think it may be worthwhile building an
occasional caravan very early and sending it to a big, foreign city. But
later with RR's and a decent sized empire of your own you can make a bundle on
internal trade. I've had internal trade routes net around $2000 in revenue,
but usually it's more like $100 or $200. I wondered how I got two tech
advances in two turns when it should have taken 9 turns per tech, until I took
a closer look at the civ book.
Perry Quan
In Article <news:Don_Melsom...@mindlink.bc.ca>,
Don Melsom wrote:
>I would second that. Mind you, I think it may be worthwhile building an
>occasional caravan very early and sending it to a big, foreign city. But
>later with RR's and a decent sized empire of your own you can make a
bundle on
>internal trade. I've had internal trade routes net around $2000 in
revenue,
>but usually it's more like $100 or $200. I wondered how I got two tech
>advances in two turns when it should have taken 9 turns per tech, until I
took
>a closer look at the civ book.
I agree. Early in the game, trading with large foreign cities is
worthwhile, but later with freight and railroads, it's safer and easier to
trade within your own Empire. And of course, there is the overlooked trade
science bonus from caravans. I didn't realise this until somebody in this
newsgroup mentioned it.
Allen Kim
In article <1996May5....@yacc.central.de>, en...@yacc.central.de
says...
>
>I have the impression that in CIV2 it's much better to send caravans and
>freights to my own cities. Considering that they are much faster
>to establish and much safer.
My opinion is the opposite. Building caravans so that you can send them
to your own cities is a waste of time, unless:
- You have no better things to build than extra caravans
- You have no available transport ships
- The seas are especially treacherous (usually around the time of
battleships and cruise missiles)
- No foreign cities demand the goods that your cities can provide
If you're going to spend the time making the caravan, you might as well
make it worth the effort, instead of just sending them within your own
cities for a minimal trade bonus.
--
|\
Allen Kim | \
_________________________________________ |
\ |vvvvvvvvvvvv
\======================================= |^^^^^^^^^^^^
ak...@cornell.edu \ |
\|
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Carsten Engelmann
Allen Kim (ak...@cornell.edu) wrote:
: If you're going to spend the time making the caravan, you might as well
: make it worth the effort, instead of just sending them within your own
: cities for a minimal trade bonus.
I had trade relationships with a revenue of 6 arrows per turn with
own cities and the best international route brought me 7.
Well, the question is really the formula. Maybe its double?
-Carsten
Graham Zaretsky
Don_M...@mindlink.bc.ca (Don Melsom) wrote:
>In article <1996May5....@yacc.central.de> en...@yacc.central.de (Carsten Engelmann) writes:
>>From: en...@yacc.central.de (Carsten Engelmann)
>>Subject: CIV2: Trade Routes to own cities better?
>>Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:29:08 GMT
>>I have the impression that in CIV2 it's much better to send caravans and
>>freights to my own cities. Considering that they are much faster
>>to establish and much safer.
>>Does anybody know the trade formula?
>>What's your opinion?
>I would second that. Mind you, I think it may be worthwhile building an
>occasional caravan very early and sending it to a big, foreign city. But
>later with RR's and a decent sized empire of your own you can make a bundle on
>internal trade. I've had internal trade routes net around $2000 in revenue,
>but usually it's more like $100 or $200. I wondered how I got two tech
>advances in two turns when it should have taken 9 turns per tech, until I took
>a closer look at the civ book.
Here is my personal priority for deciding this:
1) A foreign city on the same continent that demands the
commodity, and is not really tiny (size 1, 2, or 3) -- if
multiple, then if friendly, choose the largest. If not friendly,
then chose one that's closest/easiest to get to..
2) One of my own cities on the same continent/island which
demands that commodity. If multiple, always pick the largest.
3) If Peacetime, and early in the game, and no foreign cities on same
continent, then fill ship with caravans and transport to nearby
foreign-controlled continent that at least demands some of what I
have.
4) Otherwise, send caravan to largest foreign city on same continent
that is reasonably safe to get to. If none, then send to Largest
city of my own.
Chris Byler
Allen Kim (ak...@cornell.edu) wrote:
> In article <1996May5....@yacc.central.de>, en...@yacc.central.de
> says...
> >
> >freights to my own cities. Considering that they are much faster
> >to establish and much safer.
> My opinion is the opposite. Building caravans so that you can send them
> to your own cities is a waste of time, unless:
> - You have no better things to build than extra caravans
> - You have no available transport ships
> - The seas are especially treacherous (usually around the time of
> battleships and cruise missiles)
> - No foreign cities demand the goods that your cities can provide
> If you're going to spend the time making the caravan, you might as well
> make it worth the effort, instead of just sending them within your own
> cities for a minimal trade bonus.
But if you take a caravan to an enemy city you are also giving the enemy
a free trade route, while if you trade with yourself you are getting two
trade routes, effectively (although slightly less effective ones.) Also
if you are in a Democracy trading with your filthy rich self is much more
profitable than trading with those monarchies or fundies.
And any land unit can kill a caravan, usually.
(P.S. One thing I like about Civ2 is that settlers/engineers have 2 hp.
This means that with a terrain bonus they can fend of barbarians
singlehandedly!)
Chris
dsh...@nova.wright.edu
In article <4mm0vc$k...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, ak...@cornell.edu (Allen Kim) writes:
> In article <1996May5....@yacc.central.de>, en...@yacc.central.de
> says...
>>
>>I have the impression that in CIV2 it's much better to send caravans and
>>freights to my own cities. Considering that they are much faster
>>to establish and much safer.
>
> My opinion is the opposite. Building caravans so that you can send them
> to your own cities is a waste of time, unless:
>
> - You have no better things to build than extra caravans
> - You have no available transport ships
> - The seas are especially treacherous (usually around the time of
> battleships and cruise missiles)
> - No foreign cities demand the goods that your cities can provide
>
> If you're going to spend the time making the caravan, you might as well
> make it worth the effort, instead of just sending them within your own
> cities for a minimal trade bonus.
>
You do understand that you get two rewards for building a caravan.
The first is some pathetic little coin bonus. This is a smoke-screen.
The REAL value of caravans is the ongoing trade arrows that your cities
get from the established trade route.
- Once your homeland is safe from interlopers, you rarely have anything
more important to build than caravans. The increase in trade each turn
from caravans makes your whole economic pie bigger. Best investment of
shields you can make in the early game.
- IMHO the supply/demand thing is a charade. Yes it's nice work if
you can get it, but I won't go out of my way. I would rather trade with
a nicely built 8 than go find some dumpy little 2 that demands my potatos.
- Since I usually build larger cities than the cp's I would rather
trade with my cities. I can keep my cities out of nasty wars that
might hurt trade and I cannot do that with cp cities.
- If you trade with your own cities you have created TWO trade routes
that generate arrows each turn. (One in each city) If you trade with
a cp cities you probably have given him a larger bonus than yourself.
- When I build trade routes between my cities I know that after
the long haul to finally get to my target, that target won't
pull a stupid sneak attack for a three turn war that will waste
my 50 shields( and a ship and maybe other caravans).
Each Cp might build one or two cities worth the extra bonus for foriegn
trade, but most of my trading is done within my empire. Of course the
other use for these units is to accelerate that WOW you want.
I want caravans early and spies late. Two best units in the game.
That new spy that moves 3, can ignore ZOC, plant nuclear devices,
investigate enemy cities for free, incite revolts, bribe units,
DAMAGE UNITS AND then merrily return to minsk to laugh about it and do it all
again next turn....... Well, I think they may just be a little too strong.
Tom Morgan
In article <1996May7....@yacc.central.de>,
en...@yacc.central.de (Carsten Engelmann) wrote:
>Allen Kim (ak...@cornell.edu) wrote:
>
>: If you're going to spend the time making the caravan, you might as well
>: cities for a minimal trade bonus.
>
>own cities and the best international route brought me 7.
>Well, the question is really the formula. Maybe its double?
>
>-Carsten
>
My average internal trade route right now generates between 10-20 gold
depending on whether a particular commodity is being supplied or not. This
more than makes up for the pain of transporting caravans half-way around the
world to foreign cities...and I can easily modify the routes should
supply/demand change.
Tom
Jean-Michel Forhan
David Gibson <d...@tessera.com> wrote:
>I always build trade routes with my own cities. It's much quicker and each
>city gets the benefit of the trade, e.g. 2 for 1. Although you may find a
>foreign city gives you slighter higher rates, the CP seldem has cities as
>large as I eventually have and the time to get to the CP cities loses the
>trade you might gain. I'm usually getting 12-16 trade points per city when
>the population starts to max out. I think I've seen points as high as 20.
I think I have found an interesting fact about the number of arrows generated
by a trade between cities: it isn't directly linked with the population
but with the number of arrow produce by a city. You can simply verify this:
got into the city screen, remove all workers and watch how the gain from
the trade is decreasing. This also explain why anarchy period are so bad from
trade (generally 0 arrow due to the max of corruption) or the influence of
governement (democracy, or fundamentalism with "We love the high priest's day",
...). I have managed to have 15 trade points between cities producing
100 arrows each (was on democracy). As anyone found other part of the formula?
--
(E-mail : Jean-Mich...@cert.fr)
Jean-Michel Forhan
I have found an interesting fact on the subject of trade route: the airport
has an influence on the number of arrows generated: I have a city which
has 3 trade routes, each adding 10 arrows. The total of arrows for my city
was 83. I build the airport and the income from trade routes goes to 14
arrows each, the total arrows for my city was then 95. BTW, the others
cities that are on the trading routes have all an airport (and were owned
by me). It is like to have more than 10 arrows form the trade route between
two of yours cities, you need to have an airport in each city. It is just a
guess.
--
(E-mail : Jean-Mich...@supaero.fr)
Peter
Chris Byler wrote:
>
> But if you take a caravan to an enemy city you are also giving the enemy
> a free trade route, while if you trade with yourself you are getting two
> trade routes, effectively (although slightly less effective ones.) Also
> if you are in a Democracy trading with your filthy rich self is much more
> profitable than trading with those monarchies or fundies.
>
> And any land unit can kill a caravan, usually.
>
Interesting! Do you get double the science bulbs also?
Asoka Diggs
Jean-Michel Forhan wrote:
>
> I have found an interesting fact on the subject of trade route: the airport
> has an influence on the number of arrows generated: I have a city which
You are correct that having an airport on both ends of a trade route increases
the number of trade arrows. The strategy guide indicates that you get a +50%
bonus to your trade if there are airports on each end, +50% if the cities are
linked by roads, and +50% if they are linked by rail (cumulative). I don't have
the rest of the formula that these bonus actually modify handy however. :)
Allen Kim
In article <1996May8.0...@nova.wright.edu>, dsh...@nova.wright.edu
says...
>
>And I will diasagree with your disagreement :)
>
>You do understand that you get two rewards for building a caravan.
>The first is some pathetic little coin bonus. This is a smoke-screen.
If you send the caravan to an opponent's city which demands your goods, I
find that the cash bonus is pretty substantial. After all, early cash
bonuses of at least $125 are pretty normal with me. Then I can use money
to speed up production.
>The REAL value of caravans is the ongoing trade arrows that your cities
>get from the established trade route.
Yep.
>- IMHO the supply/demand thing is a charade. Yes it's nice work if
> you can get it, but I won't go out of my way. I would rather trade with
> a nicely built 8 than go find some dumpy little 2 that demands my
> potatos.
I would never go out of my way to send a caravan to a puny city just
because it is the only city which demands my goods. On the other hand,
maybe the long-term prospect isn't that bad ...
>- Since I usually build larger cities than the cp's I would rather
> trade with my cities. I can keep my cities out of nasty wars that
> might hurt trade and I cannot do that with cp cities.
I usually find that there will be one computer civ on another continent
that is pretty developed, and who I won't be attacking for a while.
That's why trading with that civ can really pay off until late when I do
start landing a "few good men" in his or her cities.
>- If you trade with your own cities you have created TWO trade routes
> that generate arrows each turn. (One in each city) If you trade with
> a cp cities you probably have given him a larger bonus than yourself.
Never thought of that. By the way, does anyone know if trade helps to
improve your diplomatic relations with the computer civs? I remember it
did for MoO, but I'm not so sure about Civ2, and I never got to read
through the whole Civ2 manual page-by-page.
>- When I build trade routes between my cities I know that after
> the long haul to finally get to my target, that target won't
> pull a stupid sneak attack for a three turn war that will waste
> my 50 shields( and a ship and maybe other caravans).
This rarely happens to me. I don't know why, since in Civ1, the computer
always attacked my caravans. Maybe the computer realizes that it stands
to gain from an enemy caravan, and attacking it is like killing the goose
with the golden eggs.
>Each Cp might build one or two cities worth the extra bonus for foriegn
>trade, but most of my trading is done within my empire. Of course the
>other use for these units is to accelerate that WOW you want.
Of course, of course. Plenty of caravans to build those WoW's.
Jim York
The thing I like best about caravans, is not just the financial or
production benifit, it's the 50 lightbulbs added to research. I try and
build a WoW in a central city and feed it with 2 or 3 nearby cities in
the early on. I get my techs about twice as fast and really accelerate my
research.
Jim
Jean-Michel Forhan
jy...@alpha.vaxxine.com (Jim York) wrote:
>
>The thing I like best about caravans, is not just the financial or
>production benifit, it's the 50 lightbulbs added to research. I try and
>build a WoW in a central city and feed it with 2 or 3 nearby cities in
>the early on. I get my techs about twice as fast and really accelerate my
>research.
Do you mean that when building a WoW with caravans, you can have research
bonus due to theses caravans (and not to the WoW) ?
--
(E-mail : Jean-Mich...@cert.fr)
Jim Adam
Y'all,
You get fewer trade arrows when you're trading with your
own cities. My guess is, you get about half as many
arrows on each end of the trade route as you would
have gotten on the source end alone: I really don't
think you come out ahead in trade, arrow-wise.
I've even seen trade arrows at *zero* when trading with
a close-by friendly city that didn't demand the commodity.
Still, if I have a friendly city fairly distant that demands
the commodity, I'll ship there. (a) I benefit at both ends.
(b) I keep a potential enemy civ from benefitting from the
trade.
I also tend to only trade with the one or two civs that I want
to maintain an alliance with. (If the Americans are in the game,
I invariably set up an alliance and heavy-duty trade routes with
them.)
For any city that has Copernicus' Observatory / Newton's
College, every caravan trades with a foreign city, maximizing
on foreign city size (taking demand into account if feasible).
I want the maximum possible number of arrows in
my main research town, esp. since each arrow is getting
multiplied by 2 (or whatever).
JDA
Richard Mercer
it's ARROWS for trade, not "skins" or "furs".
it's BEAKERS for science, not "light bulbs".
I guess old habits die hard!
Somebody must have stayed up all night making these major redesign decisions,
the least we can do is notice :>)
--
Richard Mercer
ric...@seuss.math.wright.edu
"I meant what I said and I said what I meant,
An elephant's faithful, one hundred per cent."
D. Benker
dsh...@nova.wright.edu wrote:
>- If you trade with your own cities you have created TWO trade routes
> that generate arrows each turn. (One in each city) If you trade with
> a cp cities you probably have given him a larger bonus than yourself.
However, there is a minus 50% penalty for establishing trade routes
with your own city, so there is no gain in trading trade with your
own.
I think it is probably more important to think distance and size in
determining the biggest trade routes. Friendly cities are usually
grouped together. I think it is worth it to send ships to the far
side to establish trade routes.
Chris Whitaker
But but... That means that one must choose between
a) 100% for you at the originating city.
100% for an enemy civ at the destination city
For a total of 100% for you and 100% for enemy.
or
b) 50% for you at the originating city.
50% for you at the destination city.
For a total of 100% for you and 0% for enemy.
The penalty would need to be more than 50% to be worth mentioning.
Chris
Chris Whitaker
D. Benker wrote:
>
> dsh...@nova.wright.edu wrote:
>
> >- If you trade with your own cities you have created TWO trade routes
> > that generate arrows each turn. (One in each city) If you trade with
> > a cp cities you probably have given him a larger bonus than yourself.
>
> However, there is a minus 50% penalty for establishing trade routes
> with your own city, so there is no gain in trading trade with your
> own.
>
> I think it is probably more important to think distance and size in
> determining the biggest trade routes. Friendly cities are usually
> grouped together. I think it is worth it to send ships to the far
> side to establish trade routes.
But but... That means that once must choose between
Bruce Settle
Trade arroows are converted to coins, goblets and bulbs based on the
settings of your tax rate. So, if you got 30 arrows for establishing a
trade route and your science is set at 50% hence 15 bulbs.
Bruce
Radiospace
It would be nice to get an authoritative response on this one! My
question is: is it better to establish a trade route with a) one of your
own city that demands the product or b) a foreign city that doesn't demand
the product.
I've generally assumed that a) would be a better choice, but often when I
establish one of these trade routes....it generates 0 arrows! That'll
screw up your 100%/50% formula. What's twice as much as 0?
Richard Mercer
In recent games I had followed the strategy of internal trade, because it was
simpler and one can set up multiple trade routes much more efficiently
without having caravans being killed enroute. Last night I decided just for
the heck of it to send a Dye shipment to the Spanish. I got a bonus of 372
gold pieces! Origination city size was 13, destination size 8. It was sent a
considerable distance by sea, it was actually freight rather than a caravan,
and I'm playing 1.11. This is by far the largest bonus I've ever gotten.
Internal routes seldom if ever exceed 100, even for Uranium between cities of
size 20-25. So it may pay to send an occasional caravan or freight abroad,
if it's along a secure route.
Q: Does the receiver also receive the cash bonus, or just the additional
arrows each turn?
Concerning using caravans to build WoW's, many people have mentioned a
science bonus as well as the 50 shields. How is that implemented. I recently
dumped two caravans into a city building a wonder at a time when I had just
started researching a new advance with 0 beakers saved. After the two
caravans arrived, still had 0 beakers according to science advisor. Where is
my science bonus?
Chris Whitaker
Richard Mercer wrote:
> This is by far the largest bonus I've ever gotten.
> Internal routes seldom if ever exceed 100, even for Uranium between cities of
> size 20-25. So it may pay to send an occasional caravan or freight abroad,
> if it's along a secure route.
>
> Q: Does the receiver also receive the cash bonus, or just the additional
> arrows each turn?
I think not I've had the comp set up trade routes with me and did not recal
getting any bonus. I was suprised to see the caravan to be honest.
In Civ 1 I had heard Caravans never left the city, they were teleported
to wherever they were going and I just assumed it was the same in Civ 2
since til last night I had never seen a CP trade unit.
>
> Concerning using caravans to build WoW's, many people have mentioned a
> science bonus as well as the 50 shields. How is that implemented. I recently
> dumped two caravans into a city building a wonder at a time when I had just
> started researching a new advance with 0 beakers saved. After the two
> caravans arrived, still had 0 beakers according to science advisor. Where is
> my science bonus?
Well the original clain still stands.
You get shields as well as gold.
Did you get gold? Not for helping to build a wonder I don't think.
Chris
Richard Mercer
In <319B8E...@cts.com> Bruce Settle wrote:
> Richard Mercer wrote:
> > Let's get this straight once and for all:
> > it's ARROWS for trade, not "skins" or "furs".
> > it's BEAKERS for science, not "light bulbs".
> > I guess old habits die hard!
> > Somebody must have stayed up all night making these major redesign
decisions,
> > the least we can do is notice :>)
> >
>
> settings of your tax rate. So, if you got 30 arrows for establishing a
> trade route and your science is set at 50% hence 15 bulbs.
>
> Bruce
>
Bruce,
My point was that there ARE NO LIGHTBULBS in Civ2.
The icon used to represent science/research is a beaker.
Someone who plays Civ2 but never played Civ1 (like me)
has never seen a "lightbulb". I assume that a lightbulb icon
was used in Civ1 because so many people have
called them lightbulbs. But they're not, they're beakers!
I know, dumb... But hardly the dumbest thing ever posted here!
Peter
One thing also, is that the penalty is only -50% (NOTE: minus 50%). Thus
when you start using items that increase the trade revenue (like freight,
cities connected by road/rail, airports, different continents,
superhighway), the penalty becomes less and less effectively (to a
minimum, of about 1/6 instead of 1/2 penalty). This is magnified by what
someone mentioned earlier that your own cities are often the best in the
world, so trade is that much higher.
I like the idea of keeping all of the benefit for myself.
Peter77
BPGriffin
In article <4nhuc5$8...@mercury.wright.edu>, ric...@seuss.math.wright.edu
(Richard Mercer) writes:
>Concerning using caravans to build WoW's, many people have mentioned a
>science bonus as well as the 50 shields. How is that implemented. I
recently
>dumped two caravans into a city building a wonder at a time when I had
just
>started researching a new advance with 0 beakers saved. After the two
>caravans arrived, still had 0 beakers according to science advisor. Where
is
>my science bonus?
>
>
You only get the science and cash bonuses when establishing a trade route.
See manual pg. 108ff.......
These bonuses are often so pitiful for an internal trade route that it
really
does seem worth the time and risk to find a big juicy foreign city that
desires
what you're peddling....I've seen bonuses as high as 500 gold, which is
also a *big*
shot in the arm for one's current research project. Escorting transports
with
an AEGIS cruiser or battleship lessens the risk considerably, BTW, and
when that transport loaded with 8 freights (or a spy or 2) hits its
targets you'll be glad you did.....
--
Brian Griffin bpgr...@aol.com
Jeffrey George
In <4nhuc5$8...@mercury.wright.edu> ric...@seuss.math.wright.edu (Richard Mercer)
writes:
>
>
>
>Concerning using caravans to build WoW's, many people have mentioned a
>science bonus as well as the 50 shields. How is that implemented. I
recently
>dumped two caravans into a city building a wonder at a time when I had
just
>started researching a new advance with 0 beakers saved. After the two
>caravans arrived, still had 0 beakers according to science advisor.
Where is
>my science bonus?
>
>--
>Richard Mercer
>ric...@seuss.math.wright.edu
>
If I understand this concept correctly, sending a caravan to one of
your cities building a WoW only adds shields to its production. You get
the beaker bonus when you create the trade route with another city.
JMG
David Michael Kass
In article <319B2E...@bnr.ca>, Chris Whitaker <stu...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>D. Benker wrote:
>> dsh...@nova.wright.edu wrote:
>> >- If you trade with your own cities you have created TWO trade routes
>> > that generate arrows each turn. (One in each city) If you trade with
>> > a cp cities you probably have given him a larger bonus than yourself.
>> However, there is a minus 50% penalty for establishing trade routes
>> with your own city, so there is no gain in trading trade with your
>> own.
>
>a) 100% for you at the originating city.
> 100% for an enemy civ at the destination city
>For a total of 100% for you and 100% for enemy.
>
>or
>b) 50% for you at the originating city.
> 50% for you at the destination city.
>For a total of 100% for you and 0% for enemy.
>
>The penalty would need to be more than 50% to be worth mentioning.
The penalty is in a different category. You only have a finite number
of trade routes that you can establish (3 per city). When you trade
with yourself, you use two of your slots (one in each city) at 50%.
Thus you have lost an actual 100% that you cannot get back. A way
around your opponent getting as much as you from trading is to send a
caravan from all your cities to one ennemy city (the biggest, of
course). Then he will only benifit from 3 of your caravans, not
all... Unless it is really unlikely for the caravan to get through,
I've almost always found it worth while to trade with another civ.
--
David Kass Caltech Grad Student
E-Mail: dk...@cco.caltech.edu Planetary Science
Research: dk...@venus1.gps.caltech.edu
Moz
Chris Whitaker (stu...@bnr.ca) wrote:
: But but... That means that one must choose between
: a) 100% for you at the originating city.
: 100% for an enemy civ at the destination city
: For a total of 100% for you and 100% for enemy.
: or
: b) 50% for you at the originating city.
: 50% for you at the destination city.
: For a total of 100% for you and 0% for enemy.
Except that only the top 3 count for the destination city. So if all my
cities establish trade routes with the same 3 enemy cites, they all get the
trade bonus, those 3 cities get big trade bonuses (which in turn influences
my trade bonus), and the AI only gets 3 cities worth of trade.
*hugs*
Moz
PS: apologies for the food/farmland error, I had miscounted)
Peter
David Michael Kass wrote:
>>[...]
>
> The penalty is in a different category. You only have a finite number
> of trade routes that you can establish (3 per city). When you trade
> with yourself, you use two of your slots (one in each city) at 50%.
> Thus you have lost an actual 100% that you cannot get back. A way
> around your opponent getting as much as you from trading is to send a
> caravan from all your cities to one ennemy city (the biggest, of
> course). Then he will only benifit from 3 of your caravans, not
> all... Unless it is really unlikely for the caravan to get through,
> I've almost always found it worth while to trade with another civ.
I've been wondering about this. You can have 15 cities trade with one
city? The 3 limit doesn't stop you at 3 different cities. Are you sure
all cities get/keep the arrow trade and don't just get the cash bonus?
By the way this is one of the more useful threads on Civ 2.
Peter77
Peter
Peter
Moz
BPGriffin (bpgr...@aol.com) wrote:
: These bonuses are often so pitiful for an internal trade route that
: it does seem worth the time and risk to find a big juicy foreign
: city that desires what you're peddling....I've seen bonuses as high
: as 500 gold, which is also a *big* : shot in the arm for one's
Later in the game, when cities over 20 are available on the other
end, I've got over 1800 bonus regularly. Also, because of the split
and my tendency to run 80% research I'm not sure whether a 400 bonus
corresponds to 400gold + 1600beakers or not. Doesn't _seem_ to be in
the manuel. Helps if you play a long thin world and trad half way
around it. Must check on whether the goto bug affects distance
calculation for trade routes - would be bad if crossing the
"dateline" gave you a huge distance because of the wrap.
I'm currently playing with making caravans cost 40 after corporation,
and freight cost 80 with defense 3. This reflects the lower cost of
just establishing a trade route, and lets me have a pile of
self-defending freighters waiting for the next wonder. Dunno about
it's affect on game balance, as the AI doesn't seem to make many
caravans at all.
*hugs*
Moz
br...@minmet.lan.mcgill.ca
ones we all used to try to blow things up in chem class in high school ;-) As for the dumb comment, this is
certainly dumber, but still not the dumbest by a longshot...I wonder what is/was?
Ian
Spectrum HoloByte/MicroProse support
radio...@aol.com (Radiospace) wrote:
From my personal experience, I would say a) is the way to go, BUT I
will check with the Civ II team and let you know as soon as I get an
answer.
Best,
Joker[SH/MPS Support]
Daniel Hoffman
In article <4nt095$7...@its.hooked.net> gt...@hooked.net (Spectrum HoloByte/MicroProse support) writes:
>radio...@aol.com (Radiospace) wrote:
>>It would be nice to get an authoritative response on this one! My
>>question is: is it better to establish a trade route with a) one of your
>>own city that demands the product or b) a foreign city that doesn't demand
>>the product.
>From my personal experience, I would say a) is the way to go, BUT I
>will check with the Civ II team and let you know as soon as I get an
>answer.
If your destination city has more than 2x the trade of the computer city then
you will benefit more from trading with your city. Ex: Atlanta has 20 trade,
Moscow has 30 trade, Washington has 100 trade. 20+30=50 but (20+100)/2=60.
I have found the bonus from your own cities to often be higher than the manual
would indicate in addition to the cases like the one above.
Chris Byler
In addition the destination city also gets an equal trade route with the source.
Not only that, but your trade with yourself is not disrupted when your trading
partner decides to change to fundamentalism.
In my experience, supply and demand affects the bonus only, not the arrows.
Anyone care to differ with this point? If this is in fact true, why bother
with supply&demand at all? Nobody builds caravans for the cash bonus.. It
seems that it would be better to get the best possible trade routes, rather
than wasting time (and 50 shields) trying to get the S&D bonus.
I think the same remarks apply to freight vs. caravans.. you get more bonus,
but not more arrows.
Chris