HOMM4: What determines skill choices?
Ted Dennison
with when a hero levels? The algorithm seems to prefer skills the
hero's class skill group. I have also managed to get other non-magic
skills, like scouting.
However, the game really seems to try to force all heroes down a
certian path. For instance, in the Lysander campaign, I thought it
might be nice to have a leader/nature magic combo. So I took my other
starting knight and ran him down to the nature magic skill dispenser.
2 scenarios and 12 levels later, he's *still* a knight, as he's yet to
get a single other nature magic option. Seemingly every level it has
offered him Combat instead.
Also, I have a magic user that I thought it would be nice to try to
make into an archmage, or at least one of the two-class combo mages.
Same thing there. I took the nature magic skill from the dispenser,
and haven't been offered it again since.
I'm just wondering if it is possible, barring divine intervention from
the mapmaker, to even create something like an archmage hero.
--
T.E.D.
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John DiFool
> Does anyone know what determines the skill choices one is presented
> with when a hero levels? The algorithm seems to prefer skills the
> hero's class skill group. I have also managed to get other non-magic
> skills, like scouting.
>
> However, the game really seems to try to force all heroes down a
> certian path. For instance, in the Lysander campaign, I thought it
> might be nice to have a leader/nature magic combo. So I took my other
> starting knight and ran him down to the nature magic skill dispenser.
> 2 scenarios and 12 levels later, he's *still* a knight, as he's yet to
> get a single other nature magic option. Seemingly every level it has
> offered him Combat instead.
>
> Also, I have a magic user that I thought it would be nice to try to
> make into an archmage, or at least one of the two-class combo mages.
> Same thing there. I took the nature magic skill from the dispenser,
> and haven't been offered it again since.
>
> I'm just wondering if it is possible, barring divine intervention from
> the mapmaker, to even create something like an archmage hero.
>
I do wish NWC had a chart or something to at least give you an
idea about the various chances. I will say that having >3< choices now,
and not 2, seems to give you more options in creating the hero you
want (for the role you have intended for him). I also remember my
Sorceror was offered Combat quite a bit (which I consistently
eschewed while making him into a world-class Heretic ;-). If you decide
to max out ALL subskills within a given skill (+ the main skill itself,
natch),
to the exclusion of everything else, upon your next level up you will have
THREE choices of primaries, and you can't beat that. I had an interesting
dilemma (Life/Death/Nature), and decided to go with Life for the anti-
Ward ability (sweet!).
John DiFool
Trygve Høgebøl
> Does anyone know what determines the skill choices one is presented
> with when a hero levels? The algorithm seems to prefer skills the
> hero's class skill group. I have also managed to get other non-magic
> skills, like scouting.
Yes, it would seem the present class of the hero (general, archmage etc.) is the
most dominant factor. It also says so when the hero changes class. "Hero x is
now a blah-blah and is most likely to get blah-blah skills"
> However, the game really seems to try to force all heroes down a
> certian path. For instance, in the Lysander campaign, I thought it
> might be nice to have a leader/nature magic combo. So I took my other
> starting knight and ran him down to the nature magic skill dispenser.
> 2 scenarios and 12 levels later, he's *still* a knight, as he's yet to
> get a single other nature magic option. Seemingly every level it has
> offered him Combat instead.
The might heroes seldom get magic skills offered and vica-verca. It has happened
to me though. It would also seem that the alignment of your spellcaster to some
degree determines what realms of magic you are offered when upgrading.
> Also, I have a magic user that I thought it would be nice to try to
> make into an archmage, or at least one of the two-class combo mages.
> Same thing there. I took the nature magic skill from the dispenser,
> and haven't been offered it again since.
>
> I'm just wondering if it is possible, barring divine intervention from
> the mapmaker, to even create something like an archmage hero.
I think you need proficiency in at least three magic realms to qualify as an
archmage. So that would depend on the possibilities given in the map, yes.
--
Trygve
Ted Dennison
> Ted Dennison wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what determines the skill choices one is presented
> > with when a hero levels? The algorithm seems to prefer skills the
> >
> > certian path. For instance, in the Lysander campaign, I thought it
> want (for the role you have intended for him). I also remember my
> Sorceror was offered Combat quite a bit (which I consistently
> eschewed while making him into a world-class Heretic ;-). If you decide
> to max out ALL subskills within a given skill (+ the main skill itself,
> natch),
> to the exclusion of everything else, upon your next level up you will have
> THREE choices of primaries, and you can't beat that. I had an interesting
Actually, that's exactly my nightmare scenario. I'm trying to build an
archmage, and I have yet to get one other magic skill option upon
leveling for *any* hero other than life magic. So suppose I do get my
preist levelled up so that there are no more life magic skills to get.
What happens then?
If I ever get a skill leveled up completely, I *have* to take one of
the other skill options. If none of them are a magic skill, I'm hosed.
If it is totally random, I have a pretty good chance of getting a
magic skill for one of my choices. But I have seen pretty clearly that
it is *not* random. So that means it may actually be *impossible* to
develop an archmage, depending on the exact algorithm used. If its not
an option, it would be darn nice to know that.
anodragon
Wierd... I got an archmage in the Lysander campaign by complete
accident. I had a Monk I was trying to level up, because his magic was
kind of pitiful (basic order and advanced life). On a whim I visited
one of the towns I'd taken that had skills for sale. I bought basic
nature and basic herbalism for him, and *voila* archmage. Maybe the
key is to do it when the hero is a fairly low level, so all three of
the magic skills are roughly equal.
Given the way that the game offers skills, its probably impossible to
get an archmage if you dont buy the skills or find them from and
altar, etc...
John DiFool
Any basic class has only 5 basic (primary) skills that they (aside from
map locations which can give out basic skills) have access to (someone
correct me if I'm wrong). If you max out the one basic skill that you
started with, you will be given THREE other primary skills to choose
from. For a >>mage<<, I seriously doubt you would be offered (say)
Nobility, Scouting, and Tactics in lieu of any magic skills.
Now I'm not saying that you are crazy; I don't doubt that the game
(for whatever reasons) hasn't given you the choice of those Life Magic
subskills (whether via dumb luck or whatever; do you have a third
primary that you haven't improved yet?). All I'm saying is that,
if you play your cards right, you >should< be able to choose the skills
you want. I'd suggest maxing out your starting skill set* (primary +
subs), then before leveling up (@ level 14), look around for any map
locations which have the magic primary you want. If not then save
before your next level-up (I have noticed that unlike H3 the next
choice isn't 'set in stone'-i.e. the random seed isn't locked in-so
upon reload you should get a different choice).
*Maxing out your original primary set also makes sense from a
strategic standpoint because you will be able to cast ALL spells,
up through level 5, at maximum effectiveness. Trying to improve
two primaries (+ subs) at once is probably a bad move, because
you will be competent in two disciplines but master in none (until
30th level ;-).
John DiFool
Ted Dennison
> Given the way that the game offers skills, its probably impossible to
> get an archmage if you dont buy the skills or find them from and
> altar, etc...
I think you hit the nail on the head. I played around a bit in the 3rd
scenario in, and noticed that I could purchase other magic skills from
the cities (abbeys?). However, I still have yet to see the option to
buy death magic for my life hero. Nonetheless, this seems to be the
way to do it. Depending on the skills offered when you level is just
going to get you a buch of heroes of the same class. You'll never be
able to create some classes (eg: a Life-hero assasin) that way.
I'd still be nice to know roughly how it decides what skills to offer
you when you level.