Dennis
>Dennis
Responses:
1) Why are you attacking as the underdog? There is no reason or
excuse for this. I always make sure I outnumber him or I don't
attack.
2) I never use catapults, they just take too long. Use towers (at
least a couple attacking different sides of the castle) and a
battering ram.
3) Always take a bunch of archers, about half your force (150-200
archers- you see how many men I usually take at a minimum). Use them
to attack the other sides archers and clear the wall. You'll lose a
good many, but usually I can wipe out his archers and then it's a
cakewalk.
4) Use peasants to fill the moat in attacking a royal castle, they're
expendable :)
5) I usually treat each section of the castle as a separate battle:
a) use archers to wipe his archers out and clear the walls
b) break down the door and scale the walls
c) then regroup and bring up the rest of the men from outside
d) storm the last holdouts where the computer has withdrawn
6) It can be tricky, but if you can feint and get the computer to dump
its oil prematurely, then withdraw, you can reduce casualties
dramatically. Most of my casualties seem to come from oil.
7) Usually the computer doesn't really defend well. It defends the
gate with half its troops, and pulls back once you'e breeched the
gate. Which means I've automatically won. It would be better off
defending the gate all or nothing, or pulling back all forces to its
last bastion and defending there. Its current strategy allows me to
defeat it in detail.
8) The type of castle I've found doesn't usually matter, with the
exception of the royal castle, where I just have to fill in the moat.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Grifman
Because you can? Because it makes for a more dynamic campaign instead of
prolonged trench warfare?
>2) I never use catapults, they just take too long. Use towers (at
>least a couple attacking different sides of the castle) and a
>battering ram.
Depends on the type of castle. See later.
>3) Always take a bunch of archers, about half your force (150-200
>archers- you see how many men I usually take at a minimum). Use them
>to attack the other sides archers and clear the wall. You'll lose a
>good many, but usually I can wipe out his archers and then it's a
>cakewalk.
I usually have about 1/3 archers, 1/3 maces and 1/3 swords or pikes.
Depending on the type of castle, it can be as little as 100 of each.
>4) Use peasants to fill the moat in attacking a royal castle, they're
>expendable :)
NO! You'll need a lot of peasants, and you'll pay for it in productivity
and morale. Use pikes. They're quite cheap and they're very tough. Put
your archers behind your pikes and you won't lose as many. When attacking
a stone castle or royal castle, have the pikes dig across the moat, put
your archers behind them to give supporting fire. You should not lose any
archers, and pikes will take much fewer losses than peasants.
>6) It can be tricky, but if you can feint and get the computer to dump
>its oil prematurely, then withdraw, you can reduce casualties
>dramatically. Most of my casualties seem to come from oil.
They shouldn't. When the enemy drops oil, move out of the flames, wait
till they go out, then return to the attack. Also, if you get men into
the castle before the oil has been used up or moved behind the inner gate
(if there is one), attack the oil. It will tip over your man, whom you
then move immediately. If you're really lucky, you can put your man between
the oil and an enemy, then hit the oil, then run away and let the enemy fry
in his own oil.
>7) Usually the computer doesn't really defend well. It defends the
>gate with half its troops, and pulls back once you'e breeched the
>gate. Which means I've automatically won. It would be better off
>defending the gate all or nothing, or pulling back all forces to its
>last bastion and defending there.
Odd. That is precisely what the computer does when I'm attacking. Mind
you, the different nobles exhibit different degrees of intelligence. The
Countess is usually fairly competent. The Knight is an idiot.
>8) The type of castle I've found doesn't usually matter, with the
>exception of the royal castle, where I just have to fill in the moat.
Stone castles also have moats.
My strategies do depend on the castles. Palisades, motte and baileys and
stone keeps just require a couple of battering rams. Archers exchange fire
with enemy archers; I put some swords or pikes in front of them as their
armour makes them harder to kill. The battering ram can be used against the
inner gate of a motte and bailey or stone keep. For motte and baileys or
stone keeps, I sometimes bring up a siege tower and send in some macemen to
attack enemy archers before they can withdraw to the motte or tower.
For the bigger castles, I use at least 150-200 pikemen to dig across the
moat. While they're doing so, at least 150-200 archers, and maybe some
crossbows, stand behind them and shoot at anything that comes too close to
the walls. I tend to use four catapults to put a big hole in the west wall.
With a stone castle, maces can charge through this and make a run for the
flag before the enemy can move anything to defend it. For a royal castle,
that hole is big enough to allow a battering ram through (note that you can
not bring a battering ram through the front gate, it won't squeeze between
the gate towers). The battering ram will knock down the gate to the inner
keep. Meanwhile all my archers and surviving pikes move into one of the
gate towers, the pikes in front to screen the archers. From there, the
archers can fire into the inner keep. Once the inner gate goes down, it's
a simple matter to send some macemen in to get the flag.
--
From the twisted mind that brought you "Dad's Army of Light"...
Adrian Hurt | JANET: adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk
UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian | ARPA: adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk
Unless I'm foced to fill in the moat, I simply build one battering ram.
When the seige starts, I back all my troops out of archer range and roll
the battering ram up to the gate. The computer never dumps oil on it,
and archers do very little damage to it. After knocking down the outer
gate, I roll it up to the inner gate (if there is one) and knock it down.
Then, I send in ONE peasant and attack his oil. The peasant will usually
get through and cause him to dump the oil. If I can, I send the peasant
after the next oil or send in another peasant. After I've gotten him to
waste his oil, I bum rush him with my peasants backed by my archers. If
necessary I send in my heavier troops. They usually aren't needed. If
possible, I'll sneak a knight around to his flag while he's tied up with
my peasants. I don't generally attack a castle unless I have 600 or more
men. I usually have at least 200 archers and 200 peasants.
Interesting comments. I'll just insert my strategies...
Grifman wrote:
>
> dst1...@aol.com (DST12345) wrote:
>
> >I would be interested in hearing from other LOTR players about the
> >various successful strategies they use in defeating the computer AI. How
> >do you prefer to attack the various castle types (eg Mott and Bailey,
> >Norman Keep, Royal Castle), particularly, how do you defeat the other side
> >while you are the decided "underdog", either in manpower or weapons? How
> >many seige weapons for each?
> >Post to newsgroup or e-mail.
>
> >Dennis
>
> Responses:
>
> 1) Why are you attacking as the underdog? There is no reason or
> excuse for this. I always make sure I outnumber him or I don't
> attack.
hear hear!
I have found that by gaining several counties early on and building
defences - stops any CP attacks dead. This allows me to build a monster
army(ies) to go out a'capturing...
> 2) I never use catapults, they just take too long. Use towers (at
> least a couple attacking different sides of the castle) and a
> battering ram.
Agreed again. I will take a catapult if I can build one without adding
another season - more as backup if all else fails.... which it never
has...
> 3) Always take a bunch of archers, about half your force (150-200
> archers- you see how many men I usually take at a minimum). Use them
> to attack the other sides archers and clear the wall. You'll lose a
> good many, but usually I can wipe out his archers and then it's a
> cakewalk.
I _never_ even bother trying to take out his archers - All I do is lose
my own - I'll just let the peasants die on moat filling duties - Tho
attacking from several sides at once spreads his archers out so they're
not quite as effective.
FWIW - I usually attack with huge armies of 800+ men - anything less is
a bit risky IMHO - and I want definates - not a "maybe I'll win with
massive casualties".
The CPs are very dumb at attacking your castles - So just keep stocking
them with troops - stops your armies from needing to be fed too!
> 4) Use peasants to fill the moat in attacking a royal castle, they're
> expendable :)
agreed, shame that :-)
> 5) I usually treat each section of the castle as a separate battle:
> a) use archers to wipe his archers out and clear the walls
> b) break down the door and scale the walls
> c) then regroup and bring up the rest of the men from outside
> d) storm the last holdouts where the computer has withdrawn
(a) I don't agree with as mentioned earlier but the rest is spot on -
Thou I never bother with swordsmen or pikemen - too slow - maceman and
knights are my main fighters - knights for the speed to take archers out
and macemen for normal hth. Plus I love their voices - "Yes Guv!"
> 6) It can be tricky, but if you can feint and get the computer to dump
> its oil prematurely, then withdraw, you can reduce casualties
> dramatically. Most of my casualties seem to come from oil.
Even better is to use a solo knight to dump the oil in a set direction -
this can, moderately, easily be done. If you place it right you can burn
his own troops - very nasty trick ;-)
Basically they dump in the direction you attack from.
Tho this requires you to be able to get in HTH with the oil - In my exp
so far they've almost never dumped oil on me while attacking - and it's
too easy to get troops out of the way while the oil burns out - lose
maybe 2-5%???
> 7) Usually the computer doesn't really defend well. It defends the
> gate with half its troops, and pulls back once you'e breeched the
> gate. Which means I've automatically won. It would be better off
> defending the gate all or nothing, or pulling back all forces to its
> last bastion and defending there. Its current strategy allows me to
> defeat it in detail.
Even if it stayed - It'd still lose there - I'd just sync my attacks
better from more than one side and just swamp with numbers - but the
flag is a major vulnerability - too easy to capture! Esp with the mott,
mott and baily, and stone castle.
> 8) The type of castle I've found doesn't usually matter, with the
> exception of the royal castle, where I just have to fill in the moat.
I've got different attacks depending on what castle type I'm attacking
as shown below...
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Grifman
Mott: attack from 4 sides easy peasy to take - send a couple of knights
down from the top. Can sometimes be in the flag b4 the enemy even
touches you.
Mott and Baily: In the front door with a battering ram - followup
rapidly with knights and cut down any archers that haven't retreated
fast enough - retreat knights bring up macemen and archers and batter
down inner gate with ram - retreat ram - send archers to inner side
walls, maceman and knights tallyho!
Keep: similar to M&B - just go up the guts and in. In some ways this one
is even easier than the M&B.
Stone Castle: attack from 4 sides and go for the flag - this is the
easiest to take after the Mott.
Royal: this one is a bit trickier - mainly as you have to hack the gate
down on the inner keep. I usually hit from 3 sides : ram and 2 towers -
up and over the walls in the one hit and try and kill as many archers as
possible b4 they retreat.
This is a good castle to "misuse" their oil....
Steve
--
Steve McInerney (stev...@dsb.mil.adfa.oz.au)
"Why stop now just when I'm hating it?"
- Marvin the Paranoid Android
Wayne
Stephen McInerney wrote:
[snip]
>
> > 2) I never use catapults, they just take too long. Use towers (at
> > least a couple attacking different sides of the castle) and a
> > battering ram.
>
> Agreed again. I will take a catapult if I can build one without adding
> another season - more as backup if all else fails.... which it never
> has...
>
>
[snip]
>I would be interested in hearing from other LOTR players about the
>various successful strategies they use in defeating the computer AI. How
>do you prefer to attack the various castle types
When it comes to sieges, first I must start with a confession....
Forgive me fellow gamers, for I have sinned. At least I have violated
the spirit of LOTR2. What follows is a clearly a transgression of
true wargaming propriety.....
OK. Now that that's over. I love attacking castles with towers and
winning while taking NO or almost NO LOSSES. Here's how, it's been a
few weeks but I think I remember the steps.
1- take a deep breath, this takes a while. And, of course, this only
works against the AI. If you are looking for human v. human advice,
read no further.
2- make catapaults... and one battering ram.
3- bring archers, it doesn't have to be a lot, the more the easier
however. Bring a few fast guys, a knight or two, maybe mace men.
4- Use the catapaults to trap the enemy archers in their own towers.
By that I mean, use the catapaults to destroy the entrance "stairways"
that give access to a tower. Destroy one side completely, bring the
other side to near destruction then wait. Ever notice how the enemy
archers keep running around from place to place? Wait till two of
them get in the tower and blow away the last stairway. VOILA. They
are trapped forever. Useless to the enemy. You do not have to
destroy the stairway itself, knocking out the parapet next to it is
sufficient. But the closer you block in the archers, the less range
they have.
TIP: In some instances, archers in the tower can hit the
catapault, you have to time your assaults so that you bash when the
archers are absent or are "on the move."
5- Slowly work the catapaults around the castle, eventually you will
trap nearly all the enemy bowmen!
6- Want to destroy those archers with no losses? Ever notice how the
enemy always shoots at the closest target, but never "leads" his
arrows? So.... if a fast guy runs past an enemy archer group, the
archers shoot, but miss! What if that guy runs back and forth with a
large group of his own archers behind him? Our guys destroy the
enemy, even if he is behind walls!! The speedy guy runs back and
forth and the archers never let up! Remeber, as you learn when to
"turn" your fast moving target to move him back and forth, you can
kill off his archers while taking very few hits.
7- The archers trapped on the "back" (north) wall are practically
useless and do not need to be destroyed unless you are in the mood.
The burning oil units can be trapped this way as well.
8- Once his archers are neutralized, move your own archer group to
stand just where the enemy ground pounders are exposed to fire.
Sometimes they run away, but soon they come back and not too much
later, they are history.
9- Once the enemy archers and front line ground pounders are dead,
fill in the moat. Put your archers near the southern border of the
map. Sometimes the enemy tries to rush out and stop the digging, but
all you have to do is run your diggers back towards the archers and
the chasers are easily toasted. The more sophisticated castles may
require that you catapault a hole in the east or west wall so the
battering ram can bang down the door of the interior "keep."
10- At this point the coup de grace can be applied by a knight who
rushes the flag solo, while the pitiful remnant of the enemy army is
chewed up by the now overwhelming numbers of my archers who march
forward to back him up. All done while most of his arrow slingers sit
uselessly locked up in towers.
TIP: Do not destroy a stairway while an enemy archers in ON it. This
only drops the archers back onto soild ground and he re-enters the
fray.
TIP2: Learn how to recognize when a piece of wall is about to fall so
you can stop the catapault and wait for the enemy archers to saunter
in, then nail the coffin shut with a last shot or two.
It takes a while..... but it is ever so pleasing to conquer a castle
against overwhelming odds. In fact, It became so easy to conquer
castles, I stopped playing the game.......
I know..... It's a sin.
>dst1...@aol.com (DST12345) wrote:
>>I would be interested in hearing from other LOTR players about the
>>various successful strategies they use in defeating the computer AI. How
>>do you prefer to attack the various castle types
>When it comes to sieges, first I must start with a confession....
>Forgive me fellow gamers, for I have sinned. At least I have violated
>the spirit of LOTR2. What follows is a clearly a transgression of
>true wargaming propriety.....
>OK. Now that that's over. I love attacking castles with towers and
>winning while taking NO or almost NO LOSSES. Here's how, it's been a
>few weeks but I think I remember the steps.
Man, you have got too much time on your hands :)
Regards,
Grifman
<snip, description about castle seiges and trapping archers>
This sounds great but it must take an eternity to conduct a castle
seige. I think the seiges are lengthy enough without resorting to such
tactics. It's easier just to replenish your losses after seizing the
enemy castle. Besides, your approach ruins the game.
Gregg Charlton
Example: STONE CASTLE
I usually attack with 300-400 men, 100 archers, 150 pikemen, 50 knights.
Siege weapon used is battering ram. I only use pikemen to dig on all my
castles, altho they cost a bit, when you are interested in low manpower
they are the only way to go. Use a row of 4 units (this is usually 64
men) to dig out the main door, while my archers provide covering fire.
Keep adding from your reserves until you have 3 "squares" dug out in from
of the door for your battering ram. Then retreat all units and bring out
the ram. Once the door is down, bring in all of your pikemen to the
center of the castle, followed by your archers. This will draw some of
the handfighters protecting the flag to you. Then you use the knights to
attack the flag. Sometimes it takes a final charge by the pikemen/archers
to assist, but often the knights will capture the flag before the rest of
the castle forces are defeated.
I can usually come out of such a siege with 100-150 men (depending on the
make-up of the defending forces). This is enough to garrison the castle.
This is the kind of strategy I was hoping to hear from out there. Anyone
able to come up with a better way? Catapults take longer, but as they are
a ranging weapon you lose fewer men.
What is your strategy? What is your record time for defeating an entire
country?
How did you do it?
Dennis
Gregg Charlton <gcha...@pcmsgw.vf.lmco.com> wrote:
>Gregg Charlton
I KNOW...... That's why I called it a transgression, a sin. My post
even started with an apology for such. I only contributed the
information as the ORIGINAL poster requested different strategic
approaches to castle conquering.
Besides, it was complete, unadulterated FUN to conquer an enemy castle
with woefully outnumbered forces the first couple of times I did it!!
And THAT is part of the strategic gaming experience. Trying new
things, experimenting, learning how to come from behind.
Read my post in the light of information dissemination, not a
strategic suggestion.