EB's new Return Policy?
Vamp
I was just at EB exchanging a game I did not like. The guy told me that
the company's new policy is that returning a game because you did not
like it is not allowed. He let it through anyways but I'm surprised
about the change in policy. This is the only reason I usually buy stuff
from them. Anybody else running into this? The biggest consumer of my
spare cash just lost me as a customer
Vamp
Allan Parent
When did this start? I returned a video card last month with no
problems. I also just purchased a game via their website and the return
policy states you may return it within 15 days of the packing date in
the original box etc. I know some EB stores have different policies but
if this is for the whole franchise then they have just lost a customer.
Allan
Jay-J
> the company's new policy is that returning a game because you did not
> like it is not allowed. He let it through anyways but I'm surprised
> about the change in policy. This is the only reason I usually buy stuff
> from them. Anybody else running into this? The biggest consumer of my
Are you a frequent returnee of games? Not meant to slam you, but I'm
just curious, that's all.
Some individual stores may have stricter rules due to things such as
high shrink (stolen or lost merchandise), frequent bounced checks (they
cost a company money to fix), a high number of returns (cost a lot of
money shipping that stuff back to the home office) or less common
incidents such as mall rental space jacking up their cost per square
footage to asinine prices thus forcing the store to pay more money for
space.
Of course, it could simply be a clerk with an attitude. In any case, it
does happen at some stores though I'm not sure about it being "company
wide". I mean, that's an easy one to get around...just say "it wouldn't
work on my machine". If that rule he told you is true, then they'll
have to take it back using the "it's defective" reason. I knew of
several stores who no longer took checks as payment due to too many of
them bouncing. This "returning because you did not like it" seems a
little weird to me but it's possible the manager got reprimanded for
having too many returns. I know...I had the same thing happen to me
when I worked there. :)
--
****
"They say I'm lazy
but it takes all my time."
-- Joe Walsh
Jeff Jones
> When did this start? I returned a video card last month with no
> problems. I also just purchased a game via their website and the return
> policy states you may return it within 15 days of the packing date in
> the original box etc. I know some EB stores have different policies but
> if this is for the whole franchise then they have just lost a customer.
>
> Allan
I doubt anything has actually changed, probably just $5/hr flunkie with an
authority complex. I'll call my local EB tomorrow, but I suspect all is
well.
Joe Marques
for opened software. An exchange or store credit only. Since the policy
changed during the week of that purchase he gave me a refund to be fair.
Exchange or credit is fine with me since I only buy from EB, however, I'm
worried they may take the next step and eliminate the ability to date a game
before you marry it. That would certainly suck the big wazoo. ;-)
--
Joe Marques
Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me.
"Vamp" <NOSPAM-...@nastything.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13dc0c0fe...@192.168.0.1...
>
> I was just at EB exchanging a game I did not like. The guy told me that
> the company's new policy is that returning a game because you did not
> like it is not allowed. He let it through anyways but I'm surprised
> about the change in policy. This is the only reason I usually buy stuff
> from them. Anybody else running into this? The biggest consumer of my
> spare cash just lost me as a customer
>
> Vamp
>
Joe62
>On my last visit to EB I was told that they would no longer offer a refund
>for opened software. An exchange or store credit only.
I don't have a problem with that, since I don't buy games anywhere
else anyway. Why would I, since everyone else's policy is a hundred
times worse?
Joe
Eric_H
NOSPAMj...@home.com says...
I still dont get the draconian return policies anyway. If it wasn't for
EB and their fair return policy, I'd buy most of my software at other
places. Any damned store with just have a reasonable return policy gets
all my software purchases.
In fact I think it would be a great idea (which I know would never
happen for a whole slew of reasons) if EB posted a list of the TOP 10
RETURNED PC GAMES.
For the most part, demos and usenet help me avoid the real dogs. BUt I
did get suckered in to buying Gunshlep by Hasbeen Interactive, and never
was I so glad for a return policy. I happily exchanged that steaming
pile of unfinished code for NFS:PU, and havn't looked back since.
Allan Parent
Boy I sure hope so. Can you imagine buying games without a return
policy? As it stands now, I wait and read online reviews of the games
before I buy with very few exceptions (Combat Mission). Heck you can't
believe all of the hype about games and only half of the reviews. Add
the fact that some games have problems running on some machines a
return policy is almost a necessity IMHO.
Allan
Anthony Brown
(Eric_H) wrote:
> EB posted a list of the TOP 10
> RETURNED PC GAMES.
<1> Hidden & Dangerous
Me: "Hi, I'd like a refund for this game." <fx: rummages in bag for game>
EB: "What's the proble... Oh it's Hidden & Dangerous, here's your cash."
rgrace
seem to treat EB as a software library.
Vamp wrote in message ...
Lucian Wischik
>It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg groups
>seem to treat EB as a software library.
I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
toaster if it didn't work right. I think that 'not liking a computer
game' comes somewhere in between the two, but a bit closer to the first,
and it feels wrong to return it if you've derived more than about four
hours of enjoyment from it. (four hours being a rough calibration of
games price with movie price).
I personally have never returned any of my games, and have enjoyed every
one I've bought. (but maybe that's because I'm not a discerning customer
and because I only buy three or four games a year).
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Alex
"rgrace" <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8kuk7n$bi7$1...@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk...
> It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg groups
> seem to treat EB as a software library.
It's sad that some people are that cheap but their return policy (according
to their web site) only allows 10 days after the purchase to bring it back.
That's not a whole lot of gaming pleasure for the time it takes to go to the
store, buy the game, go home install it, play for 9 days, and return it.
People who do that with a game they like are just idiots and you can't keep
those kinds of people from being idiots.
Eric_H
says...
> rgrace <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg groups
> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
>
> chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
> toaster if it didn't work right.
<snip>
Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
releases.
Thats the problem with PC games, they make claims on the box and so many
times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no room for
interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to be bantered
around as if they mean nothing:
Most realistic flight model
Realistic weaponry
Realistic physics
Realistic bla bla bla
System Requirements: Pentium 166 or better
Dynamic Campaign
Box Contents: Manual
"This flight sim has the best flight model and most realistec weapons
ever made, hell the actuall weapons the military uses arn't as realistic
as what we've made. We took the top 100 weapon manufactueres, along with
over 200 people who have actually shot down planes or been shot down and
designed a physics model so accurate, that GOD himself is begging us for
the code. And the flight model, well lets just say that you'd better
strap your PC to the desk, cause if you don't you'll be getting a call
from the Pentagon as your computer takes out the entire USA air force
while thrilling airshow audiances worldwide and putting the Blue Angels,
Thunderbirds and Red Arrows all to shame with the most realistic accurate
flight and physics model ever created for any computer at any time
anywhere in the universe or any dimmnetion ever existing now in the past
or the future, including those that people just dream about after eating
a whole pizza and falling asleep in front of the Discovery Wings
channel." -Chuck Yeager -Orvil and Wilber Wright -Red Barron -Gregory
Boyington -Kyle Broflowskie
rgrace
Eric_H wrote in message ...
>In article <8kuntt$btf$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
>says...
>> rgrace <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg
groups
>> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
>>
>> I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
>> chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
>> toaster if it didn't work right.
>
><snip>
>
>Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
>TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
>game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
>releases.
>
>Thats the problem with PC games, they make claims on the box and so many
>times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no room for
>interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to be bantered
>around as if they mean nothing:
<snip stuff>
So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
Besides, at the end of the day, all those claims don't amount to a whole
lot. The computer industry already has a way for you to tell if you'd enjoy
a game or not - it's called a demo. Admittedly, in Diablo 2's case (for
example) the demo isn't out yet - -in which case EB should narrow their
return policy to games which have been bought before the demo came out or
something similar.
Eric_H
robert...@capgemini.co.uk says...
First of all your analogy needs some real help...renting a movie has
nothing to do with PURCHASING a software program. If they rented
software we'd be in a different boat now wouldnt we? The whole idea
behind renting is you get to try it out without the larger expenditure of
permanent ownership.
If I BUY a movie and it won't play in my VCR or DVD player, YES I expect
my money back. If I BUY a movie that claims to be in letterbox and its
in pan&scan YES I expect my money back, if the movie says it stars Jackie
Chan and he isnt in the movie YES I expect my money back.
In short, if it isn't what it claims....like lets say Gunship, YES I
expect my money back.
rgrace
Eric_H wrote in message ...
>robert...@capgemini.co.uk says...
>
>First of all your analogy needs some real help...renting a movie has
>nothing to do with PURCHASING a software program. If they rented
>software we'd be in a different boat now wouldnt we? The whole idea
>behind renting is you get to try it out without the larger expenditure of
>permanent ownership.
>
>If I BUY a movie and it won't play in my VCR or DVD player, YES I expect
>my money back. If I BUY a movie that claims to be in letterbox and its
>in pan&scan YES I expect my money back, if the movie says it stars Jackie
>Chan and he isnt in the movie YES I expect my money back.
>
But your list had things like 'Most realistic flight model etc'. These are
disputable things.
My point is basically that why go straight out and buy something when you
know that you could read a review of it a couple of days later (moreso now
with the internet).
>In short, if it isn't what it claims....like lets say Gunship, YES I
>expect my money back.
On the other hand, with Gunship you do have a point.
Y. Tremblay
Eric_H <nospa...@1.2.com> wrote:
>In article <8kuugt$ccn$1...@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk>,
>robert...@capgemini.co.uk says...
>
>First of all your analogy needs some real help...renting a movie has
>nothing to do with PURCHASING a software program. If they rented
>software we'd be in a different boat now wouldnt we? The whole idea
>behind renting is you get to try it out without the larger expenditure of
>permanent ownership.
Console games are quite commonly available to rent. For PC however, I
think the relative ease of piracy stops companies wanting to go in
that market.
However, you can easily make informed buying decisions if you make a
little effort. As mentionned elsewhere, most games have demos
releases that you can download free on the net or many are available
on CD that come with various mags. There are a lot of ways to read
reviews of games before buying. etc.
PC games are far from perfect but if you enter a shop and buy
something just because the box is pretty and the blurb tells you it is
a good game, then you have to accept a part of the blame too.
It is a bit like movies. When have you seen a cinema/studio
publicising their current movie as: "not as good a X showing across
the road and the actor Y is at best competent but if you have nothing
better to do with your money and time, you could come in a watch it." ?
OTOH if it tells you it's a driving game and ends up a math teaching
program...
>If I BUY a movie and it won't play in my VCR or DVD player, YES I expect
>my money back. If I BUY a movie that claims to be in letterbox and its
>in pan&scan YES I expect my money back, if the movie says it stars Jackie
>Chan and he isnt in the movie YES I expect my money back.
Absolutely no problems with software that doesn't work. (which is
quite regular in games)
>In short, if it isn't what it claims....like lets say Gunship, YES I
>expect my money back.
So if you buy a movie that says it is good, exciting and
entertaining and you and up finding it boring, do you go and ask for a
refund?
--
Y. Tremblay
Allan Parent
> So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
> Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
Renting a new release video costs about $4. You are renting it, not
buying it. It is almost a certainty that it will work on your VCR. A new
release computer game cost $40-50. It is not guaranteed to work on your
system even if you have the minimum requirements.
> Besides, at the end of the day, all those claims don't amount to a whole
> lot. The computer industry already has a way for you to tell if you'd enjoy
> a game or not - it's called a demo. Admittedly, in Diablo 2's case (for
> example) the demo isn't out yet - -in which case EB should narrow their
> return policy to games which have been bought before the demo came out or
> something similar.
A lot of games do not have demos and in some cases the demos do not
totally reflect the full game. Some demos are not optimized to run on
the wide variety of machines like the full version. If the retail
computer software industry adopts a no return policy, then you will see
geometric growth in the pirating of software (even more than exists
today) where consumers would be more likely to turn to Warez copies
rather than fork out $50 for software that they cannot return if not
satisfied. This would hurt both retail stores and the game industry
IMHO.
Allan
Walter Mitty
I took Shogun back last weekend and ran into a stack of unwanted "advice"
from some pimply 17 year old about how "no games would run" if Shogun
wouldn't since it uses Dx7 etc etc like "all the rest".
The fact that I lied about Shogun crashing to avoid trouble with the "I
simply hate the games interface" reasoning was probably indicative of my
desire to avoid a stand off than wanting to be misleading.
"Vamp" <NOSPAM-...@nastything.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13dc0c0fe...@192.168.0.1...
>
Walter Mitty
"rgrace" <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8kuugt$ccn$1...@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk...
>
> Eric_H wrote in message ...
> >In article <8kuntt$btf$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
> >says...
> >> rgrace <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg
> groups
> >> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
> >>
> >> I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
> >> chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
> >> toaster if it didn't work right.
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
> >TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
> >game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
> >releases.
> >
> >Thats the problem with PC games, they make claims on the box and so many
> >times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no room for
> >interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to be bantered
> >around as if they mean nothing:
>
> <snip stuff>
>
> So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
> Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
>
Vamp
> geometric growth in the pirating of software (even more than exists
> today) where consumers would be more likely to turn to Warez copies
> rather than fork out $50 for software that they cannot return if not
> satisfied. This would hurt both retail stores and the game industry
> IMHO.
>
> Allan
>
You can bet I will download the warez version of games if I can't
purchase with a reasonable return policy. I always buy anything I like
but the gaming industry puts out way to many duds to get stuck with junk.
Reviews are good but they only help me know if a game is definitely not
worth it vs. it is worth trying.
Vamp
Joe62
>I still dont get the draconian return policies anyway. If it wasn't for
>EB and their fair return policy, I'd buy most of my software at other
>places. Any damned store with just have a reasonable return policy gets
>all my software purchases.
Yeha, it's amazing how clueless most software stores are. It's as if
they don't *wan't* more business.
Joe
Joe62
>I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
>chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
>toaster if it didn't work right.
I have returned several games. But almost all of them because they
didn't perform to spec (i.e., terrible performance on hardware they
are supposed to run on).
Joe
Joe62
>Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
>TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
>game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
>releases.
Very very good point. Every game I've returned has fallen into this
area. Usually it's blatantly lying about minimum hardware specs.
Joe
J.S.
rgrace wrote in message <8kuugt$ccn$1...@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk>...
>
>Eric_H wrote in message ...
>>In article <8kuntt$btf$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
>>says...
>>> rgrace <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg
>groups
>>> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
>>>
>>> chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
>>> toaster if it didn't work right.
>>
>>
>>Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
>>TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
>>game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
>>releases.
>>
>>times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no room for
>>interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to be bantered
>>around as if they mean nothing:
>
><snip stuff>
>
>So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
>Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
>
>Besides, at the end of the day, all those claims don't amount to a whole
>lot. The computer industry already has a way for you to tell if you'd
enjoy
>a game or not - it's called a demo. Admittedly, in Diablo 2's case (for
>example) the demo isn't out yet - -in which case EB should narrow their
>return policy to games which have been bought before the demo came out or
>something similar.
Well, since many games don't ever come out with demos, or wait a few months
to release one (gee, I wonder why), returning games make sense. As to the
movie/video analogy, most people chaulk up a crappy movie to I took a chance
and got burned on my 8 bucks or 3 bucks for a rental. $3 versus $50 is a big
margin, especially when a game such as say, Ultima IX or Star Trek Armada
doesnt work hardly at all. Unfortunately, some people abuse the return
system..
J.S.
Allan Parent
> >
>
> You can bet I will download the warez version of games if I can't
> purchase with a reasonable return policy. I always buy anything I like
> but the gaming industry puts out way to many duds to get stuck with junk.
> Reviews are good but they only help me know if a game is definitely not
> worth it vs. it is worth trying.
>
> Vamp
I totally agree. I have never pirated software or used warez software. I
restrict my buying habits to establishments that have reasonable return
policies.
Allan
Paul M
>Eric_H wrote in message ...
>>In article <8kuntt$btf$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
>>says...
>>> rgrace <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg
>groups
>>> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
>>>
>>> I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
>>> chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
>>> toaster if it didn't work right.
stores allow you to return books and i don't know of any stores that wouldn't
allow you to return a toaster even if it has been used and functions properly.
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
>>TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
>>game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
>>releases.
>>
>>Thats the problem with PC games, they make claims on the box and so many
>>times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no room for
>>interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to be bantered
>>around as if they mean nothing:
>
><snip stuff>
>
>So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
>Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
the last time i was in a blockbuster(it wasn't recently) some movies were
'satisfaction guaranteed' or you got a free rental.
anyway for most things purchased in the US we are offered the luxury of
returning the item after use if we are not satisfied. therefore we expect
*everything* to come with this guarantee and are unhappy when not offered this
option.
jasoni45
all of us can download a 100mb demo in any reasonable amount of
time. And last time I checked, demo sizes weren't getting any
smaller.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Jeff Jones
"jasoni45" <jdi450N...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:02b1bff0...@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com...
> Don't use a game demo as a reason not to allow a return. Not
> all of us can download a 100mb demo in any reasonable amount of
> time. And last time I checked, demo sizes weren't getting any
> smaller.
True, and sadly, demos are often not representative of the final product.
Matthew Levy
>It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg groups
>seem to treat EB as a software library.
>
yea, buy it and burn it.... then flame others for the same on the
group....
--Levy
kre...@usq.edu.au
<robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Eric_H wrote in message ...
>>Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it to make
>>TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong reselmblance to the
>>game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and press
>>releases.
>>
>>Thats the problem with PC games, they make claims on the box and so many
>>times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no room for
>>interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to be bantered
>>around as if they mean nothing:
>
><snip stuff>
>
>So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
>Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
Yes here in Aus most video chains do accept that and give you your
next rental free. "If you don't like it, its free" is the actual motto
of Block Buster in Aus.
>
>Besides, at the end of the day, all those claims don't amount to a whole
>lot. The computer industry already has a way for you to tell if you'd enjoy
>a game or not - it's called a demo. Admittedly, in Diablo 2's case (for
>example) the demo isn't out yet - -in which case EB should narrow their
>return policy to games which have been bought before the demo came out or
>something similar.
Actually that is an idea, but the demo would have to be pretty well
the entire game with some minor crippling. Like a limit to the number
of units, or the tech tree, or no save. Anything else would not be
truly representative of the actual game (See the difference between
the majesty demo and game.). Of course if EB offered you a free/$2
demo at the shop it would be even better. They could almost enforce it
then.
Vamp
jeff....@home.com says...
>
> True, and sadly, demos are often not representative of the final product.
Actually I think they are. I can usually tell from the demo with a little
imagination how polished the final product will be. What I mean by this
is that I don't think I ever returned a game that I bought and for which
I had tried the demo first. I'm sure we can come up with examples of
demos that were not representative of the final product but I bet they
are few. I use demos more as a gage of polish then of gameplay.
Vamp
Stan Trevena
due to the map room lock bug (could not find a solution). They asked why, I
told them there was a bug and that the game really didn't do it for me. No
problem, exchanged it and got Diablo II (having a ball with it, who would
have known?). This is the reason I buy from EB, the return policy. I
refuse to buy from a store without a good return policy. I've only returned
two games last year, but it's nice to know the option is there. I buy a few
games a month.
- Stan Trevena
rgrace
Joe62 wrote in message <39752d2d...@news.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com>...
>ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) wrote:
>
>>I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
>>chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you would return a
>>toaster if it didn't work right.
>
>didn't perform to spec (i.e., terrible performance on hardware they
>are supposed to run on).
>
That I can understand.....but when I see people on these newsgroups
returning games because of a poor AI or strange Save system, I can't help
but think that they are abusing the system. They should have read reviews
before buying the game.
>Joe
Derek Smart
<robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg groups
>seem to treat EB as a software library.
LOL!!! you know, I was thinking the same thing <g>
Derek Smart Ph.D.
Designer/Lead Developer
The Battlecruiser Series
www.3000ad.com
"It's not everyone telling me it can't be done that bothers me.
It's them interrupting me while I'm doing it!"
maddog0606
you? With the way every game is said to be the greatest thing
since breast implants I'm expected to belive reviews? And the
way a game is said (on the box) to be the greatest thing since
the earth was created?
The only way I'm going to know if I like a game that even looks
half way decent is for me to try it out. If the AI sucks, or
the game locks up my computer, or the little guy in the screen
looks at me funny that game is going back to the store quicker
then shit through a goose.
And don't accuse me of burning a copy of the game because I feel
this way. If I feel that a game needs to be returned to the
store, it isn't worth my time or effort to burn a copy of the
game. If I burned a copy of a game I liked and then returned it
I'd be cutting my own throat (so to speak). I'd be taking money
away from a game developer that I feel puts out good games. And
that is down right stupid!!!!!
Allan Parent
>
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:37:34 +0100, "rgrace"
> <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on the csipg groups
> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
>
> LOL!!! you know, I was thinking the same thing <g>
>
Once again, you cant make assumptions like that. As I have said before,
I only purchase software with a reasonable return policy. If you start
eliminating returns then people will resort to warez simply because they
will not "risk" $50 on a game that 1)will not run 2) does not perform as
advertised 3) does not entertain. This would hurt the industry as well
as the retailers. Buying a game or any merchandise for that matter
should not be a crap shoot. Almost all of the major retailers( Sears,
Wal-Mart, Target etc) has some sort of reasonable return policy on all
of the merchandise. Otherwise people would not shop there in the first
place.
Allan Parent
>
> Give me a break! Your kidding about reading reviews aren't
> you? With the way every game is said to be the greatest thing
> since breast implants I'm expected to belive reviews? And the
> way a game is said (on the box) to be the greatest thing since
> the earth was created?
>
> The only way I'm going to know if I like a game that even looks
> half way decent is for me to try it out. If the AI sucks, or
> the game locks up my computer, or the little guy in the screen
> looks at me funny that game is going back to the store quicker
> then shit through a goose.
>
> And don't accuse me of burning a copy of the game because I feel
> this way. If I feel that a game needs to be returned to the
> store, it isn't worth my time or effort to burn a copy of the
> game. If I burned a copy of a game I liked and then returned it
> I'd be cutting my own throat (so to speak). I'd be taking money
> away from a game developer that I feel puts out good games. And
> that is down right stupid!!!!!
>
I agree. Often returns are the only way we as a consumer have a voice
against companies dumping poor or unfinished software on the market. We
speak with our pocketbooks. Can you imagine paying $50 for Gunship and
having to keep it? If this were so, then Microprose/Hasbro could keep
dumping poor products on the market and poor slobs would be stuck with a
broken game and Hasbro would keep the profits.
Allan
Radnor
|I still dont get the draconian return policies anyway. If it wasn't for
|EB and their fair return policy, I'd buy most of my software at other
|places. Any damned store with just have a reasonable return policy gets
|all my software purchases.
Most stores do not wish to bother with processing returns. Do you know
how many people buy games, burn them, then return them back to EB? At
the store I used to work at, there was this one woman who would buy 10
or so new playstation games, then return them ALL a few days later.
Every single one. I'll give you one guess as to what she was doing. I
could always tell which customers were the burn-n-return types. They all
have shifty eyes I tell ya!
Not to mention you have people who are just not satisfied with anything,
and will return games that look like they've been shipped to Siberia in
a paper bag. The store is then forced to either sell the game at a
discount, or send it back to the manufacturer at a loss.
|In fact I think it would be a great idea (which I know would never
|happen for a whole slew of reasons) if EB posted a list of the TOP 10
|RETURNED PC GAMES.
Interesting idea, but I don't think game advertisers like that too much.
--
___ ______________________________
(___| Radnor |__ http://www.blackdot.org/ __)
"You are in a twisty little maze of URL's."
R Sparks
reviewing a game as released without the patches. If more reviewers would
insist on this policy, we, the purchasers, would have a better understanding of
just what the program will or will not do for us.
Silvertip
Brian Robinson
> I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the first four
> chapters just because you didn't like it.
>
doesn't have the book she wants she'll buy it at B&N and return it the
next day or so and say she didn't like it.
I got burned once where I bought a tape of this Anime movie I had
seen on the Scifi channel. When I got home, the tape included only one
"episode" of what I had seen as a whole movie on Scifi. I went to return
it to the store because it wasn't what I had thought I bought, but they
wouldn't let me return it. I think most places should have no questions
asked return policies, at least for some period of days.
--
Brian Robinson
brob...@ist.ucf.edu
Institute for Simulation and Training
Brian Robinson
> That is one reason that I appreciate the editors at CNET. They insist on
> reviewing a game as released without the patches. If more reviewers would
> insist on this policy, we, the purchasers, would have a better understanding of
> just what the program will or will not do for us.
>
initial review will be before patches but second opinions will come in
later with the patches included. Then you can get the full perspective.
Also, when you don't buy the game when it first comes out but wait a few
months, its better to find a review of the game as you will be playing in,
not as those early adopters played it.
Lucian Wischik
>Actually, I like what tends to happen at Gamesdomain, where the
>initial review will be before patches but second opinions will come in
>later with the patches included.
What I like best about GD is that they always seem to complete the game,
or at least play it for a long time, before reviewing.
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Adam
> That I can understand.....but when I see people on these newsgroups
> returning games because of a poor AI or strange Save system, I can't help
> but think that they are abusing the system. They should have read reviews
> before buying the game.
>
> >Joe
Yeah but what about the flipside. Reviews arent always honest. Most
reviews tend to be of beta software and those reviews always say "i'm sure
it will be fixed way before it ships." Whats more important than a review
is actually demoing the software. When you buy a car you dont just buy the
dam thing... you test drive it, and other cars to find one that fits your
requirements/tastes. Well software developers know this and release demos
months after the software has been on sale in stores. Usually this is a
sure sign that a product sucks. The games that have demos before they ship
tend to be successful games worth buying.
Falcon had a demo.. and at the time i was really impressed. F4 is still a
great sim but if we had a real demo before it shipped that featured all of
the features which introduced all of the wonderfull bugs. I remember the
demo being very stable.. but then again the demo was nothing more than just
a graphics engine and a flight model. What a harsh reality to find out that
the final version turned out be so flawed. Its still great.. and of course
its a lot better now. I wouldnt miss it for the world. But there are
games that just totally suck. While F4 doesnt suck.. it is really poor in
its quality control. Microprose dumped it on us. They tried as long as
they could to delay it but in the end they had to release it because well...
frankly its falcon fucking 4 fucking point fucking zero and every sim fan
had to have it. Even if the code wasnt clean.
Motocross madness2... while it looks better.. its the same dam game as
version 1... no matter what bullshit they spew. If they put out a demo
first.. i dont think it would have done so well. Although it is still a
very fun game in itself.. its just the same dam game as version1 with better
graphics. The track editor is a huge plus though. The game turned out very
good i just wish it wasnt the same dam thing as the first in terms of bike
physics and control.
-Adam
M J Andress
Have you ever questioned the morality of your girl friend's actions?
John Anderson
"M J Andress" <were...@telepath.com> wrote in message
news:3974A8D6...@telepath.com...
> FWIW...
>
> Have you ever questioned the morality of your girl friend's actions?
>
FWIW, Have you ever tried criticizing a wife or girlfriend?
John
J.S.
Vamp wrote in message ...
Well I agree that demos aren't always a final representation of the final
product, depends on when it (the demo) was released. I use demos as a
measure of what the gameplay will mostly be like. Armada was a game I wish
I had waited for a demo of. As I would have not bought the game.
And to respond to the "dont use a demo as a reason not to allow a return"
comment made a few posts up, I didn't mean that. I know what its like to
spend 8-10 hours to download even a 50mb demo. I hate it, especally after
being spoiled by T1 access and now cable modem speed. However, thats not
what I meant by my original statement. I was supporting being able to return
games, EB will get my web business and local business because of that
policy. EB just changes the rules at times for repeat offenders, who are
most likely burning games then getting their money back. I was using demos
in support of the return system, since many demos don't show you a good
picture of the final product. Many demos I've played though have given me
good reason to avoid a title at all costs..=)
J.S.
Baron Calamity
wrote:
>
>I was just at EB exchanging a game I did not like. The guy told me that
>the company's new policy is that returning a game because you did not
>like it is not allowed. He let it through anyways but I'm surprised
>about the change in policy. This is the only reason I usually buy stuff
>from them. Anybody else running into this? The biggest consumer of my
>spare cash just lost me as a customer
The policy actually changed a few months ago. Managers have the right
to keep the older flexible software return but most stores have been
switching to a "only if its broken" or "exchange only" policy.
Rob Merritt
aka Baron Calamity
------
Gaming, My family, Micronauts, Lego, and all about me me me me at:
http://rcmerritt.homestead.com
Allan Parent
Oh boy...now we have opened a real can of worms. We better go back to
simple topics like return policies and software marketing :-)
Allan
Gonzo
Allan Parent <all...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:39746F9D...@flash.net...
> I agree. Often returns are the only way we as a consumer have a voice
> against companies dumping poor or unfinished software on the market. We
> speak with our pocketbooks. Can you imagine paying $50 for Gunship and
> having to keep it? If this were so, then Microprose/Hasbro could keep
> dumping poor products on the market and poor slobs would be stuck with a
> broken game and Hasbro would keep the profits.
You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB in
Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will no
longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
myself.
Hey, if they don't want my money then somebody else will. Babbages has
always been more relaxed about their return policies anyway. Most managers
know their regular customers and can most often spot the burn-&-return ones
accurately enough IMHO.
Like Allan posted, vote with your pocketbook. That's where it hurts them
the most. Simply buy it somewhere else. Screw EB! Maybe then they will
finally learn that disrespecting and insulting their customers will cost
them big time.
Scott Shupe
>
> You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
> anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB in
> Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will no
> longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
> myself.
Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
check card already!
Matthew Davis
I don't think I've ever seen a checkout line in a computer
game store...
--
Matthew A. Davis
Michael J Andress
As a matter of fact - I've been married over 20 years. It took 15 years
before I could criticize/question my wife's actions (except on the
really serious stuff).
But once I started - it just gets easier and easier.
Course with a girl friend it's much much harder especially if one wishes
to keep getting what girl friends are good at giving.
Michael
Jeremy Reaban
Gonzo wrote in message ...
<snip>
>Like Allan posted, vote with your pocketbook. That's where it hurts
them
>the most. Simply buy it somewhere else. Screw EB! Maybe then they
will
>finally learn that disrespecting and insulting their customers will
cost
>them big time.
Well, if you're constantly returning stuff to EB, then it's not like
your business is worth much...
Gonzo
Scott Shupe <sh...@ca.metsci.com> wrote in message
news:3974DB5D...@ca.metsci.com...
> Gonzo wrote:
> >
> > You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
> > anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB
in
> > Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will
no
> > longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
> > myself.
>
> Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
> check card already!
Checks are cheap and easy. VISA costs interest and fees etc. I only use
Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken. Shouldn't
have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW beforehand
that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
their checking policy.
Gonzo
Jeremy Reaban <j...@Xconnectria.com> wrote in message
news:sn9ucn...@corp.supernews.com...
Oh really? And where exactly did *I* post that *I* constantly return stuff
Mr. Smartass?!?
You need to reread the thread and sort out who said what before you post
crap like that Mr. Reaban because you are barking up the wrong tree today!
To enlighten you...I return an average of one out of ten software packages
and when I do return something, I almost always buy something else so they
loose almost nothing. My local Babbages store actually *Gives* me free
software around the holidays to thank me because I am one of their best
customers. EB doesn't give me shit because I no longer shop there.
What the hell is up your ass anyway?
Gonzo
Matthew Davis <mda...@solers.com> wrote in message
news:3974E736...@solers.com...
> Scott Shupe wrote:
> >
> > Gonzo wrote:
> > >
> > > You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
> > > anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB
in
> > > Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will
no
> > > longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such
as
> > > myself.
> >
> > Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
> > check card already!
>
> game store...
> --
> Matthew A. Davis
LOL! It was probably a RETURN Line.
Alex Pavloff
<werewolf...@nunyahome.com> wrote:
>Course with a girl friend it's much much harder especially if one wishes
>to keep getting what girl friends are good at giving.
What, guilt?
--
* Alex Pavloff - alex at pavloff dot net *
* You've heard that water swirls differently *
* depending on the hemisphere -- ever tried it? *
Michael J Andress
City.
I've bitched at the pimply faced manager more than once and told him
"you've got two registers, use 'em".
More often than not he just looks at me with a dumb look on his face
wondering what I am talking about. More often than not I then lay what
it is I want to buy on the counter and head off to Best Buy.
Michael
Michael K. Neylon
>
>Scott Shupe <sh...@ca.metsci.com> wrote in message
>news:3974DB5D...@ca.metsci.com...
>> >
>> > You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
>> > anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB
>in
>> > Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will
>no
>> > longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
>> > myself.
>>
>> Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
>> check card already!
>
>Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken. Shouldn't
>have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW beforehand
>that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
>have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
>enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
>their checking policy.
Most banks nowadays offer a VISA card that links to your checking account,
in essense a debit card. You can't go over what you have in your account,
so it's not a credit card. But with this cards, you can avoid the hassle
for writing checks, and depending on banks, are probably cheaper than the
per-check or ATM access fee. These cards are perfectly valid for internet
sales as well.
--
Dr. Michael K. Neylon :: mne...@wtower.com :: http://pinky.wtower.com/mneylon
// "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." The Brain
Allan Parent
>
> Like Allan posted, vote with your pocketbook. That's where it hurts them
> the most. Simply buy it somewhere else. Screw EB! Maybe then they will
> finally learn that disrespecting and insulting their customers will cost
> them big time.
Exactly. The EB/Babbages people can spot the return and burn people. I
return only about one game out of 5 so I guess they know when I return
something the game must really be bad.
Allan
Allan Parent
> Checks are cheap and easy. VISA costs interest and fees etc. I only use
> Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken. Shouldn't
> have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW beforehand
> that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
> have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
> enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
> their checking policy.
The EB manager I talked to here in Houston said the reason behind the
"no check" policy was due to excessive NSF checks and not being able to
collect on their losses. VISA does cost money but EB also takes debit
cards too.
Allan
Allan Parent
> To enlighten you...I return an average of one out of ten software packages
> and when I do return something, I almost always buy something else so they
> loose almost nothing. My local Babbages store actually *Gives* me free
> software around the holidays to thank me because I am one of their best
> customers. EB doesn't give me shit because I no longer shop there.
>
I end up exchanging about one out of five purchases. I almost always
exchange and never get a cash refund. My EB also gives me stuff during
the holidays for being a good customer.
Allan
RobM78
companies are looking for a return rate under 5%. So if a person returns 1 game
out of 10, that's actually double the returns they actually want. To me, I
think the easiest solution would be an exchange only/store credit on any opened
software. The store doesn't get screwed.( They got their money.) The loyal
customers get to get the games they want, and the abusers can rot. Even here
though, there is room for abuse. ( A customer could simply exchange games
constantly, which is a watse of the stores time..while the customer plays 500
dollars worth of games on the original 40 buck investment.) There is bo easy
solution. Customers DO have to make informed buying decisions. Reading reviews
and trying demos(if possible) should be mandatory. And to anyone who says all
reviews are glowing, that just doesn't hold up. I'd say the majority of reviews
these days lean towards the critical side. Somewhere in this posting someone
compared buying a car to buying software. Well, one doesn't usually buy a car
on impulse. The same should be true of software. It's my money. I'm responsible
for what I buy. I can't blame stores for my impulse purchases. That really
isn't fair. We should all be glad that EB and Babbage's still have a relatively
lenient return policy. There's been talk in both companies of eventually going
to stricter return policies..mainly because being lenient really hasn't helped
them pull away from their competitors. I go to stores with reasonable prices
that give me good service. The return policy is rarely an issue because I don't
buy games I don't intend to keep. I've seen EB stores where employees will
spend up to two hours or more repackaging returned software. It doesn't take a
genius to realize that is a waste of company time and money. As I said, no easy
solution. I just try to make as informed a buying decision as I can. I don't
buy quite as much as others, but since I rarely return anything, I get treated
well. Unfortunately, the bad eggs in the world make it bad for the rest of us
and the most we can do is not add to the bad eggs. Oh well. This subject is
giving me a headache, so I'm going to end it here.
Rob
The Starglider
<mne...@ns.masemware.com> writes
>In article <Mx7d5.624$Q13....@den-news1.rmi.net>, Gonzo wrote:
>>
>>Scott Shupe <sh...@ca.metsci.com> wrote in message
>>news:3974DB5D...@ca.metsci.com...
>>> Gonzo wrote:
>>> >
>>> > You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
>>> > anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB
>>in
>>> > Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will
>>no
>>> > longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
>>> > myself.
>>>
>>> Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
>>> check card already!
>>
>>Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken. Shouldn't
>>have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW beforehand
>>that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
>>have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
>>enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
>>their checking policy.
>
>in essense a debit card. You can't go over what you have in your account,
>so it's not a credit card. But with this cards, you can avoid the hassle
>for writing checks, and depending on banks, are probably cheaper than the
>per-check or ATM access fee. These cards are perfectly valid for internet
>sales as well.
>
>
Switch/Solo. You can use the Delta card as a credit card, but also as a
debit card directly out of your account.
--
The Starglider
E-Mail:starg...@thespian.demon.co.uk
LARGEST I-WAR FAN SITE HERE :http://www.thespian.demon.co.uk
ICQ Number:1773852 WWPAGER:http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1773852
REPLACE D.C.U WITH demon.co.uk TO REPLY TO POSTINGS MADE HERE
Lucian Wischik
>have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
>enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
>their checking policy.
Computer games are such a rapid growth area, I reckon that keeping
existing customers is not worth as much as quickness and convenience for
them.
Vamp
>
> I end up exchanging about one out of five purchases. I almost always
> exchange and never get a cash refund. My EB also gives me stuff during
> the holidays for being a good customer.
>
> Allan
Same here. I rarely ask for my money back but I would say I exchange 1/3
games. I usually buy 1 a week though.
Vamp
Vamp
>
> Exactly. The EB/Babbages people can spot the return and burn people. I
> return only about one game out of 5 so I guess they know when I return
> something the game must really be bad.
>
> Allan
>
EB should go back to having the frequent buyer card and have the card
allow you return 1/x games because you did not like it. That seems like a
good way to stop the burn crowd.
Vamp
Rico
"Michael K. Neylon" <mne...@ns.masemware.com> wrote in message
>
> Most banks nowadays offer a VISA card that links to your checking account,
> in essense a debit card. You can't go over what you have in your account,
> so it's not a credit card. But with this cards, you can avoid the hassle
> for writing checks, and depending on banks, are probably cheaper than the
> per-check or ATM access fee. These cards are perfectly valid for internet
> sales as well.
>
Be careful though, many of the debit Visa/Mastercards do not offer the same
protections against fraud that a normal Visa/Mastercard offers. So if
someone steals your debit card and racks up $500 in purchases ... you're
probably out $500 unless you have an agreement with your bank (not Visa) to
the contrary. It's also a problem if you want to contest a purchase price
with a seller. In the U.S. it's a loophole in the law: credit cards have to
offer the protection, debit cards do not.
Seems like I'd read somewhere they were attempting to clean this problem up,
but not sure if that's become actual law yet.
- Rico
Vamp
Troop...@bugplanet.org says...
>
> Seems like I'd read somewhere they were attempting to clean this problem up,
> but not sure if that's become actual law yet.
>
> - Rico
I have always wondered about this one too. It seems to me that if it has
the Visa logo on the card that it has the same protection regardless of
how the money flows.
Vamp
Matthew Davis
> Be careful though, many of the debit Visa/Mastercards do not offer the same
> protections against fraud that a normal Visa/Mastercard offers. So if
> someone steals your debit card and racks up $500 in purchases ... you're
> probably out $500 unless you have an agreement with your bank (not Visa) to
> the contrary. It's also a problem if you want to contest a purchase price
> with a seller. In the U.S. it's a loophole in the law: credit cards have to
> offer the protection, debit cards do not.
Once the bank/VISA/whoever has the money, they don't care
much to pursue things legally.
E.g., with a credit card, you can refuse to pay for a
defective item. The CC company is out the money unless they
can recover it either from you or the business that sold it
to you. Since the CC company is at risk of losing money,
it's worth it to them to pursue.
Contrast that with a debit card, where they already have the
money. What's the benefit to them to try to get money from
the business just to give that money back to you?
--
Matthew A. Davis
Allan Parent
Good idea. I really miss my frequent buyer card :-(
Allan
Allan Parent
> >
>
> Be careful though, many of the debit Visa/Mastercards do not offer the same
> protections against fraud that a normal Visa/Mastercard offers. So if
> someone steals your debit card and racks up $500 in purchases ... you're
> probably out $500 unless you have an agreement with your bank (not Visa) to
> the contrary. It's also a problem if you want to contest a purchase price
> with a seller. In the U.S. it's a loophole in the law: credit cards have to
> offer the protection, debit cards do not.
>
> but not sure if that's become actual law yet.
>
True. Here in Texas, you are only responsible for the first $50 racked
up by a thief if you report it in a timely manner. But it does vary from
state to state.
Allan
John Anderson
>
> Most banks nowadays offer a VISA card that links to your checking account,
> in essense a debit card. You can't go over what you have in your account,
> so it's not a credit card. But with this cards, you can avoid the hassle
> for writing checks, and depending on banks, are probably cheaper than the
> per-check or ATM access fee. These cards are perfectly valid for internet
> sales as well.
I would advise anyone who can get a credit card not to use a "pinless" debit
card like this. The loss of a credit card is fully protected and there is
no money out-of-pocket in the event of a theft. Although these debit cards
are protected also, that won't stop you from bouncing checks and having to
wait to get your money if a theft does occur. I immediately cut mine up and
asked for a standard ATM debit card when my bank tried to impose one of
these things on me.
John
Jim Hoffman
games. The only problem I have is that at the EB I go to, the store
credit has to be spent IMMEDIATELY, during that visit to the store.
This sucks if the other game I want is not due out for a couple weeks.
In article <397472c7...@news.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com>,
NOSPAMj...@home.com (Joe62) wrote:
> "Joe Marques" <Joe"NO_SPAM"Mar...@Home.com> wrote:
>
> >On my last visit to EB I was told that they would no longer offer a
refund
> >for opened software. An exchange or store credit only.
>
> I don't have a problem with that, since I don't buy games anywhere
> else anyway. Why would I, since everyone else's policy is a hundred
> times worse?
>
> Joe
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chuck
A Visa "Check Card" is NOT a credit card (just a debit card with the VISA name)
and does not have the protections a credit card does. Many consumer advocates
hate these things for that very reason. If the number is stolen, you dont have
the $50 limit and the money is coming out of your checking account, real money,
not just some credit limit.
Chuck
"Michael K. Neylon" wrote:
> In article <Mx7d5.624$Q13....@den-news1.rmi.net>, Gonzo wrote:
> >
> >Scott Shupe <sh...@ca.metsci.com> wrote in message
> >news:3974DB5D...@ca.metsci.com...
> >> Gonzo wrote:
> >> >
> >> > You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
> >> > anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB
> >in
> >> > Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will
> >no
> >> > longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
> >> > myself.
> >>
> >> Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
> >> check card already!
> >
> >Checks are cheap and easy. VISA costs interest and fees etc. I only use
> >Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken. Shouldn't
> >have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW beforehand
> >that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
> >have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
> >enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
> >their checking policy.
>
> Most banks nowadays offer a VISA card that links to your checking account,
> in essense a debit card. You can't go over what you have in your account,
> so it's not a credit card. But with this cards, you can avoid the hassle
> for writing checks, and depending on banks, are probably cheaper than the
> per-check or ATM access fee. These cards are perfectly valid for internet
> sales as well.
>
Radnor
|> EB should go back to having the frequent buyer card and have the card
|> allow you return 1/x games because you did not like it. That seems like a
|> good way to stop the burn crowd.
|>
|> Vamp
|
|Good idea. I really miss my frequent buyer card :-(
A new system will be implemented some time in the near future, similar
to many of the point programs on credit cards. When you purchase a
product you will get a certain number of points, which you can
accumulate towards free stuff.
--
___ ______________________________
(___| Radnor |__ http://www.blackdot.org/ __)
"You are in a twisty little maze of URL's."
John Anderson
"Chuck" <cobr...@NOmy-dejanewsSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:39760372...@NOmy-dejanewsSPAM.com...
> A Visa "Check Card" is NOT a credit card (just a debit card with the VISA
name)
> and does not have the protections a credit card does. Many consumer
advocates
> hate these things for that very reason. If the number is stolen, you dont
have
> the $50 limit and the money is coming out of your checking account, real
money,
> not just some credit limit.
That is not the same kind of "Visa" card that my bank offers. It does come
with theft protection and $$$ limits. However, once they take your money
then it up to you to get it back. Not to mention the damage that can be
done by having your bank account cleaned out. I prefer it the other way
around.
John
Ross Judson
If you report a lost or stolen card to us within two days, you will not be
liable for unauthorized use of the card. After
two days, your liability for
unauthorized use will not exceed $50. See your
Rules and Regulations for
Deposit Accounts for further information. Check
Card subject to approval.
Sounds OK to me! I guess I can keep it. I got all paranoid for a moment there :)
Ed Bruce
is stuff a simple notice in your next bank statemnt and take it all away
or modify it. With a credit card they can't do that.
But what happens if somebody does steal your MC/Visa check card and
drains your checking. Then your checks start bouncing. Then everybody
who accepted those bounced checks each starts charging you a $20 fee.
They ain't gonna wave that $20 charge. Remember you aren't gonna know
that your checking is empty until you either get your monthly statement
or if you can go online and look at your account. The bank won't cover
all those NSF charges from other banks and they may still charge you a
NSF fee for every check that bounces. I bet all they say is you won't be
resonsible for loses due to the use of the check card, not because you
are overdrawn.
later,
Ed
--
Ed Bruce
Sr. Software Engineer
Raytheon Systems Company
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Brian Robinson
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:44:27 GMT, Michael J Andress
> <werewolf...@nunyahome.com> wrote:
>>Course with a girl friend it's much much harder especially if one wishes
>>to keep getting what girl friends are good at giving.
> What, guilt?
>
Precisely. That's the only thing left to wish for once the sex
gets boring.
--
Brian Robinson
brob...@ist.ucf.edu
Institute for Simulation and Training
Allan Parent
>
> ,----[ Allan Parent (all...@flash.net) wrote:]------------
> |> EB should go back to having the frequent buyer card and have the card
> |> allow you return 1/x games because you did not like it. That seems like a
> |> good way to stop the burn crowd.
> |>
> |> Vamp
> |
> |Good idea. I really miss my frequent buyer card :-(
>
> A new system will be implemented some time in the near future, similar
> to many of the point programs on credit cards. When you purchase a
> product you will get a certain number of points, which you can
> accumulate towards free stuff.
>
Cool! Thanks for the info.
allan
Gonzo
> in essense a debit card. You can't go over what you have in your account,
> so it's not a credit card. But with this cards, you can avoid the hassle
> for writing checks, and depending on banks, are probably cheaper than the
> per-check or ATM access fee. These cards are perfectly valid for internet
> sales as well.
I can appreciate that but I like checks. Regardless, my main point is that
they could have met their steady check writing customers half-way but chose
not to. That was a bad marketing error on their part IMHO.
Gonzo
Allan Parent <all...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:39752DBD...@flash.net...
> Gonzo wrote:
> > Checks are cheap and easy. VISA costs interest and fees etc. I only
use
> > Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken.
Shouldn't
> > have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW
beforehand
> > that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
> > have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't
care
> > enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to
change
> > their checking policy.
>
> "no check" policy was due to excessive NSF checks and not being able to
> collect on their losses. VISA does cost money but EB also takes debit
> cards too.
>
> Allan
I understand the policy when it comes to strangers but again, they could
have made an exception for their long time customers or even implemented an
alternative policy for them to show them that their business is worth
something. But EB chose to do absolutely nothing except shun their steady
check writing customers.
What would I have done? I would have given all EB managers the option of
accepting check from long term customers or implemented a special (preferred
members only) club option allowing check writing to continue.
Gonzo
Lucian Wischik <ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:8l3vvk$mc9$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> Gonzo <go...@seacove.net> wrote:
> >have implemented a member-only check listing or something but didn't care
> >enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to
change
> >their checking policy.
>
> existing customers is not worth as much as quickness and convenience for
> them.
>
> --
> Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Probably. It's the old Mega-Corp mentality rearing it's ugly head. Even
big corps can screw themselves though. Look at IBM & Intel for example.
James Gassaway
:
: Scott Shupe <sh...@ca.metsci.com> wrote in message
: news:3974DB5D...@ca.metsci.com...
: > Gonzo wrote:
: > >
: > > You took the words right out of my mouth Allan. I go to Babbages now
: > > anyway. After bing a "good" and steady customer of Walden Software/EB
: in
: > > Killeen, TX for almost five years, one day they tell me that they will
: no
: > > longer accept checks. Even from their older "steady" customers such as
: > > myself.
: >
: > Well, what are you doing slowing down the checkout line? Get a VISA
: > check card already!
: Checks are cheap and easy. VISA costs interest and fees etc. I only use
: Credit cards for online orders and I am a big user of Quicken. Shouldn't
: have to explain it to them or anyone else though since they KNEW beforehand
: that my checks were as good as gold for the past five years. They could
: enough about their steady customers to do that when they decided to change
: their checking policy.
If you have an ATM card, you can probably use it like a credit card. It
would pay directly from your primary account, no interest, no fees. If
they can accept credit cards, they can accept debit cards.
--
Multiversal Mercenaries. You name it, we kill it. Any time, any reality.
James Gassaway
: Same here, credit is fine with me, since EB's the only place I buy
: games. The only problem I have is that at the EB I go to, the store
: credit has to be spent IMMEDIATELY, during that visit to the store.
: This sucks if the other game I want is not due out for a couple weeks.
Get a gift certificate. Doesn't have to be spent immediately and can't be
used elsewhere.
Herzog Zwei
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:44:27 GMT, Michael J Andress
> <werewolf...@nunyahome.com> wrote:
>
> >Course with a girl friend it's much much harder especially if one wishes
> >to keep getting what girl friends are good at giving.
>
> What, guilt?
LOL!
>
> --
> * Alex Pavloff - alex at pavloff dot net *
> * You've heard that water swirls differently *
> * depending on the hemisphere -- ever tried it? *
>
--
.
"When you're thinking of Giant Heads, think of the Big giant head!"
Gonzo
James Gassaway <dtr...@linex.com> wrote in message
news:M2yd5.432$cK2.15469@sjc-read...
> If you have an ATM card, you can probably use it like a credit card. It
> would pay directly from your primary account, no interest, no fees. If
> they can accept credit cards, they can accept debit cards.
Actually, I did use a debit card at the same store with no problems until my
bank decided that all the old debit cards should be exchanged for their new
Visa cash cards. I didn't like the fact that my local bank was inviting a
third party to put it's hands on my local financial transactions so I
refused to give up my old card. Now my old card no longer shows up valid as
a debit card and only works on ATM machines and that's fine by me.
It's funny how all these businesses think that they can do whatever they
want without any input from their customers. Sadly, most customers shrug it
off and just take it. They don't realize that they have the power to
change things so they let others do it for them instead. It's really sad!
Personally, Ill go down screaming and bitching because it's my money they
are making a living off of. It may not be a big deal to some but it's a
matter of principle to me.
John Anderson
"Gonzo" <go...@seacove.net> wrote in message
news:EoJd5.812$Q13.1...@den-news1.rmi.net...
>
> It's funny how all these businesses think that they can do whatever they
> want without any input from their customers. Sadly, most customers shrug
it
> off and just take it. They don't realize that they have the power to
> change things so they let others do it for them instead. It's really sad!
> Personally, Ill go down screaming and bitching because it's my money they
> are making a living off of. It may not be a big deal to some but it's a
> matter of principle to me.
>
You need to change banks. I cut up my pinless debit card and got the old
style ATM card back. It works fine in debit machines.
John
Elias Martenson
> "Gonzo" <go...@seacove.net> wrote in message
> news:EoJd5.812$Q13.1...@den-news1.rmi.net...
>
> You need to change banks. I cut up my pinless debit card and got the old
> style ATM card back. It works fine in debit machines.
Pinless? How do you use it to pay in stores with electronic payment?
(where you punch the code in instead of singing the receipt)
--
Elias Martenson
elias.martenson (atsign) sweden.sun.com
John Anderson
"Elias Martenson" <n...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:bpvbszr...@no.spam...
> "John Anderson" <john...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> > "Gonzo" <go...@seacove.net> wrote in message
> > news:EoJd5.812$Q13.1...@den-news1.rmi.net...
> >
> > You need to change banks. I cut up my pinless debit card and got the
old
> > style ATM card back. It works fine in debit machines.
>
> Pinless? How do you use it to pay in stores with electronic payment?
> (where you punch the code in instead of singing the receipt)
There are just like credit cards, except they debit your account. That is
what this whole conversation has been about.
John
Elias Martenson
> > Pinless? How do you use it to pay in stores with electronic payment?
> > (where you punch the code in instead of singing the receipt)
>
> There are just like credit cards, except they debit your account. That is
> what this whole conversation has been about.
I know, but credit cards have pin codes too.
John Anderson
"Elias Martenson" <n...@no.spam> wrote in message
>
> I know, but credit cards have pin codes too.
>
Maybe there is something I didn't know. I thought you could use them to
make purchases just like a credit card. I.E. just sign and no PIN. In
other words money is deducted from your bank account with virtually no
security. Am I wrong about this? I thought that's how the Visa debit cards
worked.
John
Elias Martenson
Don't you use the pin code when making a purchase using visa?
Gonzo
>You need to change banks. I cut up my pinless debit card and got the old
>style ATM card back. It works fine in debit machines.
I just kept my old ATM card and it still works on ATM machines. It no
longer works on debit transactions though, but no big loss. I remember the
accusatory looks I got from EB's employees one time when my old ATM card
"stoped" working on their debit scanner.
I would like to try to change banks but all the banks in this area are
terrible. I miss my old Army/Navy Credit Union at NAS Corpus Christi. You
could have one penny in your checking account and they would actually pay
you interest on it. Tell that to any other Civilian Bank in Texas and they
would laugh their ass off and tell you that you are full of it.
Lucian Wischik
>Maybe there is something I didn't know. I thought you could use them to
>make purchases just like a credit card. I.E. just sign and no PIN.
In some countries (e.g. US and UK) you generally use your card at a
store and sign your name. The store clerk gives the signatures a brief
eyeball, and copies of them are stored in some vast signature receipt
archive in case of dispute.
In other countries (e.g. Australia?) they're moving over to a system
where you go to a store and type in the same PIN that you use at an ATM.
You use this instead of a signature. The banking system suggests that
it's more secure, because the PINs are harder to forge than signatures.
This second system will become even more prevalent as we move over to
cards with smart chips on them. This will allow for safer PINs.
Y. Tremblay
Walter Mitty <nos...@spammers.com> wrote:
>A video doesn't cost 40 quid.
>
>"rgrace" <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:8kuugt$ccn$1...@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk...
>>
>> So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you rent it from
>> Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well right?
A game doesn't last just 2 hours.
--
Y. Tremblay
Synpax
>In article <8kuugt$ccn$1...@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk>,
>robert...@capgemini.co.uk says...
>
>First of all your analogy needs some real help...renting a
movie has
>nothing to do with PURCHASING a software program. If they
rented
>software we'd be in a different boat now wouldnt we? The whole
idea
>behind renting is you get to try it out without the larger
expenditure of
>permanent ownership.
>
>If I BUY a movie and it won't play in my VCR or DVD player, YES
I expect
>my money back. If I BUY a movie that claims to be in letterbox
and its
>in pan&scan YES I expect my money back, if the movie says it
stars Jackie
>Chan and he isnt in the movie YES I expect my money back.
>
>In short, if it isn't what it claims....like lets say Gunship,
YES I
>expect my money back.
>
>
>>
>> Eric_H wrote in message ...
>> >In article <8kuntt$btf$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
>> >says...
>> >> rgrace <robert...@capgemini.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >It wouldn't surprise me if they did. half the people on
the csipg
>> groups
>> >> >seem to treat EB as a software library.
>> >>
>> >> I agree. You wouldn't return a book after reading the
first four
>> >> chapters just because you didn't like it. Although you
would return a
>> >> toaster if it didn't work right.
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >Ahhh my personal argument...when I buy a TOASTER I expect it
to make
>> >TOAST. I buy a game, I expect it to have a strong
reselmblance to the
>> >game described on the box AND in all the advertisments and
press
>> >releases.
>> >
>> >Thats the problem with PC games, they make claims on the box
and so many
>> >times, fall so far short of these claims that there is no
room for
>> >interpritation, they are broke. Little phrases that seem to
be bantered
>> >around as if they mean nothing:
>>
>> <snip stuff>
>>
>> So when a video doesn't match up to it's decription when you
rent it from
>> Block Busters you go back and ask for your money back as well
right?
>>
to a whole
>> lot. The computer industry already has a way for you to tell
if you'd enjoy
>> a game or not - it's called a demo. Admittedly, in Diablo
2's case (for
>> example) the demo isn't out yet - -in which case EB should
narrow their
>> return policy to games which have been bought before the demo
came out or
>> something similar.
Well, for the record, you aren't really buying the software as
much as buying a liscence to it.
I think the return policies need to be enacted by the publisher,
not by the the game store.
Synpax
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
atholbrose
>I can appreciate that but I like checks. Regardless, my main point is that
>they could have met their steady check writing customers half-way but chose
>not to. That was a bad marketing error on their part IMHO.
With the amount of check fraud that goes on -- and it is an amazing
amount, when it comes to videogames -- you can readily understand why more
and more places are not accepting checks. In my area, there isn't a single
pizza place that will accept a check any more. There's only one software
store that will (oddly enough, an EB, when no other in the area accepts
checks) -- or at least they would six months ago, I no longer shop there
because they're morons. But that's another story.
Unfortunately -- and I know this from retail experience -- allowing some
customers to write checks is pretty much not an option. It leads to "but I
saw *him* writing a check, why can't I?" and all sorts of nastiness like
that. Not worth it.
I have a debit Mastercard linked to my checking account, and someone was
fraudulently charging me $20 per month, goodness only knows where they got
my number. I got my money back, got the vendor banned from charging my
Mastercard, the crooks promptly switched to a new vendor ID and I got my
money back AGAIN and got a new Mastercard number.
I think it all depends on your bank.
--
r. n. dominick -- cinn...@one.net
this blinding kiss breathes helium into my heart