>No, you are correct! and you don't know the HALF of it! The computer
>cheats with money...unlimited and every harvest COMPLETELY fills the
>silos(to allow you to cheat because it does). Also, I have on occation,
>though I can't prove it, seen engineers appear out of nowhere running
Er, just to comment..
The computer can, and does run out of money. We just beat the mission
where you have to rescue "delphi" or whatever (myself and a friend),
And we did it quite simply.. we built 7 orcas (yup, 7.. they rock)
And took out the computer's harvesters in one attack. We could blow
up both harvesters it built before the computer could harvest any tyb.
Slowly, slowly, the tyberium reserves kept going down, we waited untill
no more harvesters went out, started attacking SAM sites untill
it stopped repairing them.. and charged base. Once we killed defenders,
nothing regenerated.
Oh, and by the way, to wear it down to 0 cash took like 4 hrs.
But no, as far as I can tell, the computer doesnt cheat. And, as for
units "appearing" anywhere, thats intelligence on the part of the
comptuer.. using human faults against ya. Just like we know the computer
does dumb things, it knows that we cant pay attention everywhere,
so distraction attacks work (on humans). So it simply sneaks guys
around the board, making em come up in sucky places.
But its kosher as far as I can tell.
You never have to buy ANY silos if you convert your tiberium into units, or
better, cash. Untouchable cash that can't be destroyed. Start building
something big, abort it. The money goes back into your account, but as
cash, not tiberium. The computer does the same thing when it sells off
buildings, or presumably does the same thing - build and abort. So, the
computer can have money, and bank money, just as you can - even without a
base or silos. This is the source of the mysterious repairs and rebuilding.
The only things that the computer can do which a human player cannot
are:
1) rebuild a structure without an adjacent structure (confirmed personally
by me during gameplay)
2) apparently fill a silo with a single harvester trip (I haven't personally
investigated this).
You can prevent the computer from rebuilding a structure by placing a unit
on the same square. You can permanently prevent the computer from
rebuilding a structure by sandbagging your way to the structure, destroying
the structure, building a sandbag on the structure's square, and then sell
the sandbag. You now "own" that square, and the computer can't rebuild from
scratch on it. Since the computer never attacks sandbags, fences or walls
directly (though it hits them occasionally shooting at you), it's a safe way
to guard your base, or expand it.
: In mission 15 ( I am GDI) I was harvesting in a tiberium field when
: out of no where he builds a Hand of NOD and a Power Station ?????
: What the HELL ?????? Then it throws up one of those laser towers
: right next to my harvester and two APC's SHIT!!!!!! Thats why you
: don't use your Ion cannon shots unless you need to. Blew that sucker
: away and got my harvester out as he builds a new one instantly but
: lost 1 APC and 5 men. I sat aound and waited for Mister Ion Cannon to
: recharge and built up some engineers and a new apc. ZAP take it out
: again then rush the engineers and caputure the base but he builds the
: damn laser tower again ?????? But my grenadier troops take it out.
I've never seen it build where there wasn't a structure at the beginning of
the game - quite interesting. It ocassionally pisses me off that the
computer can rebuild *any* structure it had before - in NOD13, the computer
has two bases, and after I wiped out their construction yard, another one
sprang up!!!
--
Richard S. Stone Network Engineer
: A big secret!, I found out that the computer have an infinity amount
: of money!. This is because while I played several past missions, I have
: destroyed his base, but I left out a turret at the other side of the
: river and I can't cross this river to destroyed it with my men. So I
: waited for the Air Strike, I selected the turret as my target, the plane
: go towards the turret. And when it finishes bombing, the turret's energy
: bar goes yellow already,(remember I have already destroyed his base, every
: is destroyed except that turret)and the still have the ability to REPAIR!!??.
: So, does this prove that the computer cheats? Or maybe, I was wrong and the
: computer really have some money left.
Actually, it IS still theoratically possible to have money left even
after all your buildings are destroyed. The only thing that puzzles me is
that where does the the computer get the power to run the thing?!
As for the mysterious engineers they appear via one of two routes:
Choppers and APCs. I saw choppers drop off engineers twice behind my
base while playing GDI and now as NOD I've seen the AI use APCs a couple
of times.
--
- Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
>
>On mission 15 for GDI Nod built a hand of NOD next to ABSOLUTELY
>NOTHING near ANY base, the only thing CLOSE was a tyberiam field...
>then it built a power plant and an Obelisk to protect it!
>
>Steve
>
Steve,
The bitch (computer) did the exact same thing to me on the same mission!
Did you notice that he has somehow run out of money and that the game
has slowed down? I have my base walled off with sandbags and the
computer has been allowed to expand without interference by me. I
sent a scout over to his base and saw what must be about 100 troops
massed around a small area. I read in another post that this huge
number of troops has blocked access to his refinery so it can't
harvest tiberium. Somehow the bitch managed to save up some money
from selling off structures and built the Obelisk, power station,
and a Hand of Nod right next to the tiberium field. This is big
time cheating! Luckily I already have three Orcas and after I sell
off some stuff, I'll build a fourth and wipe out all of his structures
which are undefended by the dummy.
I like C&C, but it isn't very strategic. The computer is a cheating
bitch, but not very smart. As soon as I sell a sandbag and
open up my fortress, the bitch tries to storm the entrance with
inferior forces. They just stream towards the entrance and eat
missles from my advanced guard tower. The computer will even ignore
my harvestor in its haste to get to my base. Not much of a plan from
him, just stream units in a bee line for the single opening in my
base. The bitch is a real sucker for ambushes...
I think the computer gets a lot of money to start with and a completed
base as a crutch for its stupidity. If the computer had to hustle
and gather tiberium to build its base, I would promptly walk over
and hammer the bitch. At least in MOO and CIV, the computer
would start out at scratch like I would. In C&C, the computer
has a complete base filled with units. I guess this is the bane
of all AI programming...defense is relatively easy while offense
is very difficult. I noticed in Panzer General, the computer AI
was very poor when attacking me. I could defend against him quite
easily if given reasonable forces. This is the same in C&C. The
only way the computer can get into my base is with vastly superior
numbers at the very start of the mission. If I get a bit of time,
I can construct my base so that the computer can't get in. Even
before I noticed the sandbag cheat, I could effectively stump him by
using the fences with grendiers behind them.
Anyway, C&C is decent and I'll probably finish both GDI and NOD before
moving on to another game. I just wish I could be challenged more
by tactics and strategy instead of cheated on...
fiend
--
"Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!"
Howard Cosell - 1st round of Foreman KO2 Frazier; 1973
On the last level...the computer builds stuff on the lower middle part
of the screen.....without any adjacent structures---if you harvest most of
the tiberium at the lower middle....it will put up a powerplant, obelisk of
light and hand of nod at the positions where you harvested.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
man...@ecf.utoronto.ca | 3rd year Comp Eng., University of Toronto
Valavan Manohararajah |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't waste time destroying the computer's harvesters because it
will always rebuild one. It is true the computer's tiberium
resources are limited to what it can harvest... but that don't
mean shit when it's got the cash it has.
And cop this: I was sitting in the computer's base on one of the
last missions where it has two base sites. I had wasted everything
in the smaller one... the computer continually rebuilt all
structures including refinery and silos. BUT... when the silos
were rebuilt they IMMEDIATELY had some tiberium in them!!!
And when I killed one, the other suddenly filled up... like
it got the tiberium from the one I destroyed.
In my opinion the computer DOES cheat. I have even had it build
structures after destroying its only construction yard (these
were SAM's and appeared quite a while after the destruction
of the yard).
Don't bother trying to starve the bastard of cash UNLESS you TRAP
the harvesters. This seems to fool it into thinking no cash is
coming in or something.
A question: Has anyone been able to stop the computer rebuilding
or repairing completely??? This is with the construction yard
intact. In one scenario I must have totalled about 10-15 harvesters
before they ever got back to base with tiberium.
I don't know if I am the only one (I find it hard to believe I am),
but I got some email from Joe Bostic (check credits) with a few handy
suggestions. These helped me reach my above conclusions.
It seems posts here ARE being read by the people who matter... so
let's keep the criticism constructive eh?
bye
s
I have seen many of the things that you describe in your article,
but I have also countered all of them. I have built a turret
combo and continuly destroyed Computer Silos and have seen the
Computer bled virtually dry, from which position the taking of
it's base was a walk in the park. I do NOT believe that the
computer cheats. I finished all the GDI and all the NOD missions
and was able to counter the computers healthy cash flow in all
cases, as have many others I'm sure. Cheating is not the case
here, I believe that the computer is simply given a larger,
probably much larger, starting cash account. But I can assure you
that a strategy of killing harvesters and bleeding his repair
capacity will ALWAYS bring the computer to it's knees.
JEB "OZ" Vegas
o...@cris.com
>My experience here is that the computer has a VAST amount of cash.
>For practical purposes this amount is infinite!
This is untrue. The computer ran out of its cash in several of my scenarios.
>Don't waste time destroying the computer's harvesters because it
>will always rebuild one. It is true the computer's tiberium
>resources are limited to what it can harvest... but that don't
>mean shit when it's got the cash it has.
Nope. If you destroy its harvesters and bleed it dry (by attacking one of its
buildings so it has to repair), it will eventually run out of money. But I
take it that you don't have the patience to see this happen.
>And cop this: I was sitting in the computer's base on one of the
>last missions where it has two base sites. I had wasted everything
>in the smaller one... the computer continually rebuilt all
>structures including refinery and silos. BUT... when the silos
>were rebuilt they IMMEDIATELY had some tiberium in them!!!
>And when I killed one, the other suddenly filled up... like
>it got the tiberium from the one I destroyed.
Well, that's a fluke of the game. By the way, to prevent them from
rebuilding instant, you have to find and destroy all their construction
yards.
[snip]
>
>In my opinion the computer DOES cheat. I have even had it build
>structures after destroying its only construction yard (these
>were SAM's and appeared quite a while after the destruction
>of the yard).
[snip]
>
>A question: Has anyone been able to stop the computer rebuilding
>or repairing completely??? This is with the construction yard
>intact. In one scenario I must have totalled about 10-15 harvesters
>before they ever got back to base with tiberium.
[snip]
>
>bye
>s
>
I have won all the GDI missions and am about to start playing NOD. I have always been able to
stop him from rebuilding by destroying his construction yard(s). That was always my initial
goal in all the missions was to take out his construction yard(s) and the I would only have to
destroy things once. This is just a theory but, could you have noticed that SAM cite problem on
the last GDI mission? There are two SAM cites on Kanes island that you don't have to blow up to
get an air strike. Maybe you thought getting air strike meant you had blown up all SAM cites
and when you saw these two you thought the computer rebuilt them. It's just a theory.
However, I have seen the computer cheat in this way. He can construct certain structures over
and over no matter what their location. For the computer, structures do not have to be adjacent
to one another, if it existed there once it can exist there again. And the computer will take
any means necessary to ensure this. In the last GDI mission I had captured his entire
northwestern base and I had sold off his refinery and silos because I hate it when my
brain-dead harvesters drive to the other side of the map to go to a free refinery. I digress,
anyway when I sold these buildings the civilians were left standing around in there place which
was preventing him from rebuilding. The computer brought in a flame take which I attacked. It
ignored my attack and tryed to kill these civilians standing in these lots. I thought nothing
of it until he throws up a new refinery and silo.
And when I say he can rebuild anything that includes construction yards, he does not need and
MCV.
just my 2 cents
loki
>My experience here is that the computer has a VAST amount of cash.
>For practical purposes this amount is infinite!
>Don't waste time destroying the computer's harvesters because it
>will always rebuild one. It is true the computer's tiberium
>resources are limited to what it can harvest... but that don't
>mean shit when it's got the cash it has.
>Don't bother trying to starve the bastard of cash UNLESS you TRAP
>the harvesters. This seems to fool it into thinking no cash is
>coming in or something.
This is all false. I have run the computer out of money on 4 different
missions. All production stops, harvesters, buildings, Obelisks, even troops.
He DOES start out with a large supply of cash. Also, remeber that all during
the mission while you are struggling and building things, he is harvesting all
that time.
Also, when I destroy the construction yard, he doesn't rebuild any building I
destroy. SAM sites and turrets may be an exceptions to this, I can't remember
for sure.
--
Hal Black | sy...@mik.uky.edu | Entitlements kill | (tastefully short signature)
: Don't waste time destroying the computer's harvesters because it
: will always rebuild one.
I've found destroying his harvesters to be pretty useful. They keep on
coming for a while, but eventually they stop - it doesn't take that
long either.
: In my opinion the computer DOES cheat. I have even had it build
: structures after destroying its only construction yard (these
: were SAM's and appeared quite a while after the destruction
: of the yard).
On GDI 15 I observed fairly conclusive proof that the computer can't
build without a construction yard. I spotted one in the top right of
the map quite early on and blew it up. I then got toasted attacking
his base after ion cannoning one of his obelisks. I later found he had
two construction yards. Once I'd managed to take both out at once the
compuiter definitely stopped rebuilding things. And shortly thereafter
stopped doing pretty much everything :-)
Kev
>>I've never seen it build where there wasn't a structure at the beginning of
>>the game - quite interesting. It ocassionally pisses me off that the
>>computer can rebuild *any* structure it had before - in NOD13, the computer
>>has two bases, and after I wiped out their construction yard, another one
>>sprang up!!!
Mine didn't. That is, the construction yard when destroyed, stays destroyed.
But on NOD 13, there were 3 construction yards! Boy that was difficult
considering that I did not have the nuke. The buildings were replaced every
4 to 5 minutes.
Regarding the money, I don't think the computer cheats. Because when I won
the game, the computer was left with virtually no money. How did I know, when
I send a cluster of tanks to attack an advanced guard tower, the tower promptly
folded up and was sold off by the computer. Betcha didn't know that. 8-)
Regards
Chee Hui 8-)
PS: C&C is a worthy successor to Dune2. And the music really ROCKS !
}man...@ecf.toronto.edu (MANOHARARAJAH VALAVAN) wrote:
}>>I've never seen it build where there wasn't a structure at the
beginning of
}>>the game - quite interesting. It ocassionally pisses me off that
the
}>>computer can rebuild *any* structure it had before - in NOD13,
the computer
}>>has two bases, and after I wiped out their construction yard,
another one
}>>sprang up!!!
}Mine didn't. That is, the construction yard when destroyed, stays
destroyed.
}But on NOD 13, there were 3 construction yards! Boy that was
difficult
}considering that I did not have the nuke. The buildings were
replaced every
}4 to 5 minutes.
The way to deal with this is to capture the construction yards
rather than destroying them. Then you can build GDI units
and buildings. I really like using missile towers to destroy
missile towers :)
}Regarding the money, I don't think the computer cheats. Because
when I won
}the game, the computer was left with virtually no money. How did I
know, when
}I send a cluster of tanks to attack an advanced guard tower, the
tower promptly
}folded up and was sold off by the computer. Betcha didn't know
that. 8-)
}Regards
}Chee Hui 8-)
}PS: C&C is a worthy successor to Dune2. And the music really ROCKS
!
The only cheat I've seen the computer do that the human player
cannot possibly do is call airstrikes with enemy SAM sites
present. Everything else I've seen the computer do, I've figured
out how to do too.
--doug
-- Doug McCreary --
-- da...@ix.netcom.com --
-- See Gladiator at http://www.ictv.com/users/mike/gladiator.html --
(see the replies to my mail. replies in group: alt.games.command.and.conquer
nice strategy, I'm gonna try this sooner or later
(i already made grenadeers for power)
>s...@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au (Simon Cannons) wrote:
>:>My experience here is that the computer has a VAST amount of
>:cash.
>:>For practical purposes this amount is infinite!
>:>
>:>A question: Has anyone been able to stop the computer
>:rebuilding
>I have seen many of the things that you describe in your article,
>but I have also countered all of them. I have built a turret
>combo and continuly destroyed Computer Silos and have seen the
>Computer bled virtually dry, from which position the taking of
>it's base was a walk in the park. I do NOT believe that the
>computer cheats. I finished all the GDI and all the NOD missions
>and was able to counter the computers healthy cash flow in all
>cases, as have many others I'm sure. Cheating is not the case
>here, I believe that the computer is simply given a larger,
>probably much larger, starting cash account. But I can assure you
>that a strategy of killing harvesters and bleeding his repair
>capacity will ALWAYS bring the computer to it's knees.
>JEB "OZ" Vegas
>o...@cris.com
Why would you kill the silo's? Why not capture 'em and get that $$$$?
I used that strategy on Level 13 of GDI, and got about $10000.
Let' em build silo's. Capture and sell 'em. Then let 'em build more,
full of cash. Repeat as neccesary. The computer definitly did not
like it when I attacked his base with 8 orcas and over 12 mammoth
tanks....:)
Atypical (Find me on Kali! Play C&C!)
>Also, the starting values for each catagory can be rediculously high.
>In the medium range missions, the AI might start out with 15000 (yes 15
>thousand) total credits. No wonder AI usually only has 1 harvester ;-)
If that's the case then how come it stops producing units after I
total the harvester?
>So, no AI doesn't cheat when it comes to money, it just has more to
>begin with.
>Don Good
>dgo...@ix.netcom.com
>Chicago, IL
Anyway, there's a Westwood Tech area on AOL; there was a detailed post
describing the AI inre money posted by Westwood.
Basically, the AI gets it's money in three catagories. Unit money,
repair money, and rebuild money. The AI cannot transfer money from one
catagory to another, and any money it gets from tiberium is devided
evenly between the three catagories.
What this means is that you can constantly damage a structure and let
the AI repair and expect the AI to run out of money. All he will run
out of is _repair_ money. The AI might still have money for building
units, and rebuilding structures.
Also, the starting values for each catagory can be rediculously high.
In the medium range missions, the AI might start out with 15000 (yes 15
thousand) total credits. No wonder AI usually only has 1 harvester ;-)
So, no AI doesn't cheat when it comes to money, it just has more to
Actually, I think the amount of EXCESS energy causes the ion cannons to
charge faster. I'm sure your energy bar was maxed, and selling off those
other adv com centers released more energy to be used in charging the
cannon. I also think that having excess energy allows your tanks to be
built faster as well. A friend said he had one instance where he
particularly noticed that, but i've never really tested it.
Bill
> [snip]
> >
> >In my opinion the computer DOES cheat. I have even had it build
> >structures after destroying its only construction yard (these
> >were SAM's and appeared quite a while after the destruction
> >of the yard).
> [snip]
> >
> >A question: Has anyone been able to stop the computer rebuilding
> >or repairing completely??? This is with the construction yard
> >intact. In one scenario I must have totalled about 10-15 harvesters
> [snip]
> >
> >bye
> >s
> >
--
-------------------------------------
Curt Gray
gr...@cs.wmich.edu
Jeep Grand Cherokee owner until 1996!
-------------------------------------
It made buildings near my town just because my harvesters started
working a new field.
I had a row of Rocket trucks at each of the computer's airstrips and
I destroyed them every 2 minutes for over 2 hours. The computer had
no limit on cash. I even had all of its harvesters trapped.
I finally just built a fence around a Hand of Nod and an Airstrip so
I could move on to the next town. When the space inside the fences
filled up with enemies, the computer had to stop making guys.
The only cheating we can do is sell off all of our buildings before
moving on to the next level just to start with an extra 3000 or so.
It works for both GDI and NOD.
Eric