BEST MOO/MOO2 RACE!!
Sarfraz Moledina
I think the Bulrathi rule!
Does anyine know which will be the most powerful race in MOO2??
Boo
Nonsense!! With a little elbow room, the Psilons are unbeatable!!!!
Rob C. Johnson
Well, based on the preview on Happy Puppy, I'd say a custom race
(duhhhh 8-). Hmm. Assuming your start playing with just your
homeworld, I'd say choosing a Rich world to start is pretty
important, as well as increasing the productivity of your
species, both in building stuff and researching. Subteranean
might also be usefull, as that provides more space for more
colonists on your planets, but I'm not sure how big a bonus that
is. Basically, whatever helps you get going as fast as
possible will be very usefull.
Rob steals a quote:
Nature may be stupid, but it's got quite a few more
years experience at its job than we do.
(rcjo...@prairienet.org)
Hing Hu
Sarfraz Moledina wrote:
>
> I think the Bulrathi rule!
voltaire
Boo <pat...@gte.net> wrote in article
<01bbd170$d7d01020$fbac...@e806952.ca.boeing.com>...
>
>
> Nonsense!! With a little elbow room, the Psilons are unbeatable!!!!
>
Yes, but that's with a little elbow room. The Klackons don't need elbow
room.
Voltaire
Jason Townsend
In article <01bbd23c$a8008e20$62aa8e95@calman>, volt...@ix.netcom.com
says...
Ahh, but with the elbow room, the Psilons are a lot better. Klackons.
Phah. I worry about the Meklars. The Klackons are a mere nuisance. Bribe
the mrrshans to kill them, or something.
--
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
---------------------Jason Townsend tow...@atcon.com
GUI TERENCE ANG
Are we going to go through this all over again? Didn't we just do it
sometime around September?
I believe it came down to Klackon's productivity vs. Psilons Researching
prowess. I don't think I've got much else to say.
TAG
Rob C. Johnson
to bring back an old thread....
use the PsiKlacks!
Rob steals a quote:
Evolution is caused in part by changing environments,
such as the ice ages.
(rcjo...@prairienet.org)
GUI TERENCE ANG
On 14 Nov 1996, Jason Townsend wrote:
>
> Ahh, but with the elbow room, the Psilons are a lot better. Klackons.
> Phah. I worry about the Meklars. The Klackons are a mere nuisance. Bribe
> the mrrshans to kill them, or something.
>
> --
> Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
> ---------------------Jason Townsend tow...@atcon.com
>
As someone in this group pointed out to me the last time this thread came
up. How the AI handles a race's advantage is not a good reflection of
their racial strength. Simply put - The AI sucks and if I were playing
the Sillies I would probably be able to out research a computer Psilon
Player.
I like the Klackons a lot. I used to think that the Klackons were the
undisputed best race. But I can see that Psilons are a great race as
well, but not great enough to change my vote for the Klackons. I have to
admit to I'm not totally unbiased.
TAG
Timothy J. Boyd
In <Pine.SUN.3.94.961115...@tuzo.erin> GUI TERENCE
The Sakkra's are definitely the supreme race. The population growth
rate allows you to spread throughout the galaxy so quickly that you can
build a huge economic base that will ultimately spell doom for all
other species. Fortunately due to poor computer AI, by time other
species begin to launch serious offensives at you, you have already
established yourself. I don't even bother to build warships until
later in the game, as planetary missile bases take care of most
threats.
Jim Kutz
In a previous article, bo...@ix.netcom.com (Timothy J. Boyd) says:
> The Sakkra's are definitely the supreme race. The population growth
> rate allows you to spread throughout the galaxy so quickly that you
> can build a huge economic base that will ultimately spell doom for all
> other species.
Nah !
The Psilon research advantage cannot be duplicated by any other
race or technology. Conversely, Psilons can *duplicate* the
racial advantage of any other species.
All ya gotta do is start out Psilon, use research to get
more production, and use the production to get more research.
To do that, first research the cheap techs for production
( factory 9, to speed up factory-building, reduced industrial
waste, and ecological reclamation, so you get to keep more
of your production.
Then you get a terraforming tech, +10 or +20, so you can
export some pops and still run plenty of factories.
You build just enough colony ships to export your surplus
pops, so you've always got room to grow. At first you're
spread pretty thin, but what the hay, everybody else is
too busy grabbing planets to mess with you. Claim a
planet with a scout, and they leave it alone (usually).
When it starts taking too long to move colonists, you
start researching higher warps, three or four. That
way your pops spend more time producing, less in transit.
By that time your core stars are getting overpopulated,
so you shove more pops out toward the frontier. Now you
work on improving range.
Now you've got two or three planets built up enough
to make colony ships, but the neighbors are getting
expansive. You scale back research and start grabbing
real estate like crazy, using lightly armed colony ships.
You use your superior propulsion and range to grab planets
right out from under the competitor's noses, and try to glide
past the competition into un-grabbed portions of the galaxy.
Every once in awhile you lose a planet, when the
opposition colony ship gets there after you do, and
follows up with an army of colonists.
All of a sudden real estate gets tight, and the neighbors
start getting militant. You switch everything over
to defense research, and in relatively few moves you've got
enough ground defense capability to hold your planets
( missile tech, hand lasers, light armor, battle suits,
and low-grade shields ).
Now you're fairly well dug in, and you've got the Psilon
research advantage. You build a couple of missile bases
per planet, which is enough to stop slow ships.
Now you get ready to grab all those hostile planets
the opposition can't land on, the ones with artifacts
and minerals. You research ecology. You don't need
cloning, if you've got a fertile planet or two you can
pump for extra pops by maxing ecology.
Pretty soon you've got a bunch of hostile planets,
but now your colonists can build factories much faster,
because they're producing one credit per person instead
of a half, because of your ecology research.
Now you start getting improved factory controls, and
reduced factory construction costs, so you can actually
use small planets. Then you start boosting the
population capacity, and get cloning.
When the neighbors get jealous, you go back to
weapons research, and build some scatter pack missile
bases, maybe three per planet. They still manage to
bomb you once in awhile, but you fix that with
planetary shield 5, which keeps 'em off your back
for awhile.
Well now you start developing high-level computer
techs, which gives you an espionage edge, and deep-space
scanners so you know when visitors are coming.
You basically hole up, and decide how you're going
to win. If you grabbed enough planets, you might
be able to breed a two-thirds majority.
If not, then you again use your research advantage,
and start developing ground combat and advanced
cloning. Pretty soon you can over-run anything,
but what you *do* over-run are artifact planets,
rich planets, fertile planets and terran planets
in that order.
Now you can go to work on ship design. If you've
got high warp, you've also got defensive maneuvering,
just like the Alkiri, and engine power for weapons.
If you've got high weapons tech, you also have
compact weapons, lots per ship. Then all ya gotta
have are decent shields, armor to absorb punishment,
and damage control.
The nice part about miniaturization is how many
bombs you can carry. You outrun their fleet,
smash their missile bases on an unguarded planet,
and have your ground troops come in right behind.
By the time their fleet arrives, you've got planetary
shields up, and a couple of missile bases. They can
still bomb you and land troops, but you've got advanced
cloning, so they ain't gonna win.
Now you're sittin' pretty, because the AI's are
pretty dumb about deploying fleets. They'll always
come charging after the planet you last attacked,
leaving their tails uncovered.
You put the rich planets on fleet production, and
everything else on research, for a few nineties
like stellar converters and flea killers ( black hole
generators and/or ionic pulsars ).
If you don't happen to get the right techs, you
wait 'til somebody else does and steal them, meanwhile
building up production.
One thing you *don't* do is make un-necessary peace
treaties. Keep the enemy on alert, keep them building
fleets that will be obsolete by the time it hits the fan,
keep them from doing research.
The only catch is that if you wait too long, your enemies
start trading techs, unless you break up their alliances.
Well now you've got high-tech production, and computer tech,
so you can do slick espionage, and sucker the opposition
into attacking each other.
The beauty of it is that if you're Psilon, you can *get*
all the advantages of Bulrathi, Alkiri, Meklar, Silicoids etc.,
but they can't steal your research *capability*, which is
double what some of the races have.
The one thing you don't want to be is Human, because
it's too much fun to crush those smug, overhearing,
backstabbing, oily bastards who think they're the
Natural Heirs of the galaxy.
- Jim Kutz (aa387)
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie',
until you can find a rock." - Chris Thomas
--
"Keep it simple: as simple as you can,
but not too simple."
- Einstein
Lawless
Jim Kutz (aa...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:
: Nah !
: The Psilon research advantage cannot be duplicated by any other
: race or technology. Conversely, Psilons can *duplicate* the
: racial advantage of any other species.
: ( factory 9, to speed up factory-building, reduced industrial
^^^^^^^^^
: Then you get a terraforming tech, +10 or +20, so you can
^^^^^^^^^^
: If you don't happen to get the right techs, you
: wait 'til somebody else does and steal them, meanwhile
: building up production.
(Major, major amounts snipped)
The whole problem with this is - you've never played MOO2. Factory 9?
No such thing. Terraforming +10? Not that either. Not getting the
right technologies as the Psilon? You get -all- the technologies as the
psilons, or any other creative race. What you wrote is true, to some
extent, for the original game, but totally meaningless with regards to
MOO2.
Nonetheless, psilons are overpowered in Moo2 - but there's no longer as
many levels of technologies to choose from and whatnot.
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (law...@netcom.com / law...@eskimo.com)
--
-- If violence isn't the answer then I don't understand the question.
ebou...@cc.curtin.edu.au
In Article <lawlessE...@netcom.com>
Have to point out that this thread refers to the best MOO/MOO2 race. Although
I haven't played MOO2 (yet, still hanging out for it) it would seem that
the Psilons are a pretty tough race (in either game).
Still want to know whats so good about the sakkras, any info for a MOO fan
drooling at the comments on this group would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and
whats this subterranean special do?
Love the .sig
Cheers,
Craig
Nicholas Hills
Lawless wrote:
>
> The whole problem with this is - you've never played MOO2. Factory 9?
> No such thing. Terraforming +10? Not that either. Not getting the
> right technologies as the Psilon? You get -all- the technologies as the
> psilons, or any other creative race. What you wrote is true, to some
> extent, for the original game, but totally meaningless with regards to
> MOO2.
>
Lawless,
If you read the subject line you will see it refers to the best
MOO/MOO2 race.
^^^
Discussing the MOO version of the Psilons is entirely legitimate in this
thread.
Just me being a net-cop. :-)
Nich
"It isn't easy being a cop!" - Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy
Daniel Schmitz
In article <580bo0$1...@alpha8.curtin.edu.au>, ebou...@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
|> Still want to know whats so good about the sakkras, any info for a MOO fan
|> drooling at the comments on this group would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and
|> whats this subterranean special do?
My current basic strategy is to attempt to outproduce and outresearch my
opponents in order to give me an advantage in tech and in ship building and
refitting. The Sakkra reproduce like crazy. I think it's at twice the
normal rate. So, with Sakkra, you are more likely to be able to quickly
colonize large portions of the galaxy. More worlds under your control not
only means more output for you, but fewer worlds (and less output) for
your opponents.
At least one bonus subterranean conveys is an advantage in defensive
ground combat. Supposedly, your troops really dig in.
Dan
stea...@aol.com
Humans are great if you want to expand peacefully and win the council
vote. They can use diplomacy to keep out of wars, and while the other
races savage each other, keep colony ships nearby and pick up the pieces.
I did this, first occupying the Silicoid homeworld somone else wasted,
then I jumped on the ruined Sakkra homeworld, landing a colony ship just
before a competitor did, then I got the space amazon homeworld the same
way.
I kept everyone else at bay with diplomacy, won the council vote and
though I had several battleships, I didn't have to fire a single shot
against any exept the Antarians.
Made for a boring game though.
dsh...@nova.wright.edu
> In article <580bo0$1...@alpha8.curtin.edu.au>, ebou...@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
> |> Still want to know whats so good about the sakkras, any info for a MOO fan
> |> drooling at the comments on this group would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and
> |> whats this subterranean special do?
> At least one bonus subterranean conveys is an advantage in defensive
> ground combat. Supposedly, your troops really dig in.
The big subterranean advantage is you can place more popn points
on a world.
dfs
David Leary
In article <580bo0$1...@alpha8.curtin.edu.au>,
<ebou...@cc.curtin.edu.au> wrote:
(clip clip snip)
>Have to point out that this thread refers to the best MOO/MOO2 race. Although
>I haven't played MOO2 (yet, still hanging out for it) it would seem that
>the Psilons are a pretty tough race (in either game).
I tried the Psilons once in MOO2, and didn't enjoy it much - the creative
ability makes the game a lot less interesting for me. Having to choose
between two cool technologies is SCARY and NEAT.
>Still want to know whats so good about the sakkras, any info for a MOO fan
>drooling at the comments on this group would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and
>whats this subterranean special do?
Something about the computer player's AI and the Sakkra abilities must be
a heckuva combination, since they are regularly big players if they get
off to a half-decent start. The subterranean special increases their max
planet size and makes the planets tougher to attack.
I think their rapid growth and bigger planets makes 'em work well. One
thing hasn't changed from MOO1 to MOO2: him with the mostest wins.
-----
Dave Leary
(Nope, my views don't represent UMAB...good thing, huh?)
"I've been of thousand devils caught,
And thrust into that horrid place,
Where reign dismay, despair, disgrace." -- George Crabbe
Lawless
David Leary (dle...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu) wrote:
: I tried the Psilons once in MOO2, and didn't enjoy it much - the creative
: ability makes the game a lot less interesting for me. Having to choose
: between two cool technologies is SCARY and NEAT.
Nice to see someone else who thinks creative is boring - ditto for
omniscient, for me. MOO's Psilons were powerful, but -fun- because you
got to make more technology / research choices.
: Something about the computer player's AI and the Sakkra abilities must be
: a heckuva combination, since they are regularly big players if they get
: off to a half-decent start. The subterranean special increases their max
: planet size and makes the planets tougher to attack.
: I think their rapid growth and bigger planets makes 'em work well. One
: thing hasn't changed from MOO1 to MOO2: him with the mostest wins.
Yeh, their breeding & massive planet sizes seem to work real well for the
Artificial Insanity in moo II.
Lawless
ebou...@cc.curtin.edu.au wrote:
: Have to point out that this thread refers to the best MOO/MOO2 race.
: seem that the Psilons are a pretty tough race (in either game).
Yeh, but the guy was arguing a position based solely on Moo 1 information,
which pretty much invalidated what he was saying.
: Still want to know whats so good about the sakkras, any info for a MOO fan
: drooling at the comments on this group would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and
: whats this subterranean special do?
Well, sakkras population growth is doubled, which is possibly more important
in the new version, they generate extra food, thus freeing up more population
for research or production, and the subterranean gives them a ground defense
bonus, PLUS it gives an extra two units of population per planet size :
+2 tiny, +4 small, up to +10 for huge, where a typical normal planet, earth
type, supports 8, to which the sakkra add six.
Steve Bartman
dle...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (David Leary) wrote:
>In article <580bo0$1...@alpha8.curtin.edu.au>,
> <ebou...@cc.curtin.edu.au> wrote:
>(clip clip snip)
>>Have to point out that this thread refers to the best MOO/MOO2 race. Although
>>I haven't played MOO2 (yet, still hanging out for it) it would seem that
>>the Psilons are a pretty tough race (in either game).
>I tried the Psilons once in MOO2, and didn't enjoy it much - the creative
>ability makes the game a lot less interesting for me. Having to choose
>between two cool technologies is SCARY and NEAT.
I'm half with you. I enjoy the Psis, but I enjoy the others too. IMO,
the research advantages have been played up too much here on the ng.
Sure, getting a lot of research quickly is nice, but the Psilons'
penalties in gravity-handling, average to below average fighting
(space and ground), and only okay spying/diplomacy make them balanced.
What good is a lot of tech if you can't build much on the majority of
planets due to gravity? Once you get gravity generators it evens out,
but the computer players have a healthy start by then.
I think Simtex did a great job balancing the standard races. There are
a lot of ways to win besides the brute force, research-and-build (even
though this method is favored by some of more hormonal members of the
ng. <g>) Winning a vote in the council is just as good, and probably
harder intellectually.
On the farmer issue (somewhere else in another thread), I disagree
that they detract. The demand that CHOICES, often difficult ones, be
made between food, production, and reserch is the central spine of the
game design. That large planet that would be a great ship-generator is
needed to stave off starvation? Tough, deal with it. Food has to be
number one. (One mod I'd like is the ability to trade BCs for food
from a 'farmer culture'--would add a better trade element, especially
in multiplayer. Might be unbalancing to the AI though. Don't know.)
Sure the overall micromangement is intense, but do you have a train to
catch? Save it and come back, like in Civ2.
The tech race to terraforming does seem key to me, as I've found this
tech the launching point for large empires that are food-starved. I
often post-pone weapons techs, using trading and giving up systems to
buy time, in order to get my food system up to speed. Study history:
this is not abnormal in our experience on Earth. Additionally, I
applaud Simtex for making the universe creation routine stingy on
Terran and Gaia worlds (much different than MOO1.) If our solar system
is typical, the toxic, radiated, barren and gas giant varieties will
be the rule not the exception. If anything MOO2 doesn't have enough
gassers, at least around the yellow stars (the systems are all pretty
small, which I assume is for RAM reasons or something. I'd love to be
able to build seven artificial planets in one system and defend with
one fleet. Again, perhaps an AI issue.)
Anyway, rambling post, but bottom-line I'd encourage Psilon-lovers to
branch out. Try the Trilarians. I haven't seen much to recommend them
yet (few water worlds, space fluxes don't freeze travel very often,
etc.)
Steve
Greg Lary
>: Something about the computer player's AI and the Sakkra abilities must be
>: a heckuva combination, since they are regularly big players if they get
>: off to a half-decent start. The subterranean special increases their max
>: planet size and makes the planets tougher to attack.
>
>: I think their rapid growth and bigger planets makes 'em work well. One
>: thing hasn't changed from MOO1 to MOO2: him with the mostest wins.
>
>Yeh, their breeding & massive planet sizes seem to work real well for the
>Artificial Insanity in moo II.
One thing I've found though, if you're playing a telepathic race, and
the Sakkras start out near you, you're in for a cakewalk. I took one
cruiser and went around mind controlling all these new colonies he
kept spewing out before they could build defenses. By about turn 40,
he was done to one world, and stolen about 6 systems with instant
populations. This was on Impossible BTW.
-Greg
Lawless
Steve Bartman (sbar...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Anyway, rambling post, but bottom-line I'd encourage Psilon-lovers to
: branch out. Try the Trilarians. I haven't seen much to recommend them
: yet (few water worlds, space fluxes don't freeze travel very often,
: etc.)
I've found the Trilarians quite nice - tundra an' swamp being terran,
terran and ocean being gaia, and having their ships get from place to
place much quicker is handy too. Now, heavy-G & aquatic - that'd be
even better. ;)
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (law...@netcom.com / law...@eskimo.com)
--
-- I've got a couple of years on you baby, that's all.
-- I've found a few more places to fly and many more places to fall....
Christopher Baughman
gl...@hsv.tis.net (Greg Lary) wrote:
>One thing I've found though, if you're playing a telepathic race, and
>the Sakkras start out near you, you're in for a cakewalk. I took one
>cruiser and went around mind controlling all these new colonies he
>kept spewing out before they could build defenses. By about turn 40,
>he was done to one world, and stolen about 6 systems with instant
>populations. This was on Impossible BTW.
>-Greg
I did the same thing to the Trilarians (hard level). But then I had a
huge empire that was too big for the fleet I had built with only 2
colonies to protect, so the CPs nibble nibble nibble
Chris
David Turriff
Admittadly, I never played the first MOO, and I'm no master at the second,
but believe it or not, I always seem to do the best with the Humans.
Their Democracy gives them extra science and cash, which is always
helpful. Plus, their Charisma not only allows them to take more advantage
of other races, but it attracts heros.
This is the stratigy I use: I build up as per normal, and hire every Hero
with Megawealth. If I'm lucky, I usually get at least two pretty soon,
which really increases cash flow early in the game. Then, I hoard my
wealth, and I pump up the science rate after my colonies are suitablly
prepared. Galactic Cybernet kicks grass with this stratigy. Anyway, I
concentrate on Construction, Physics, and Force Fields in order to
increase production and build up advanced millitary technologies. Then,
when I decide to strike (or the foolish enemy does), I usually have much
greater tech, so I design a small number of killer ships and crank up
production, then I buy them as soon as I can (trying not to waste -too-
much cash, if possible). I then try to make peace with all but my target,
so I can crush him in peace. Then I do the same to the others.
One of the really nice things about Humans is you don't have to worry
about disadvantages! Sure, they might be boring, but they are pretty
useful.
-NetViper>