MOO2: Common uses of Evolutionary Mutation?
Trebor A. Rude
I'm somewhat new to MOO2 (best game so far was Huge, Average,
Pre-Warp, 5 players, with a race that was Creative, Unified,
Subterranean, -10 spying, Low-G, and -20 ship defense, although it
seemed too easy). I was just wondering what you more experienced
players try to grab when you get Evolutionary Mutation. I tend to
grab Warlord if I don't already have it. Some other things I've
considered: Omniscient and +10% score, ditching some spying/combat
negatives and a plus to score (or turning the negative to a positive),
and finally a simple +40% to score. What do you all think?
On another note, how does a colony run by Galactic Unification
rate against one run by Imperium with all the morale-boosting
buildings built and achievements achieved? I know that at least in
the Imperium scheme, the large bonus would apply to scientists too.
But what about the start of the game, when you don't have all those
morale-boosters? How much of an effect would it have in an Impossible
game? I rather like the race design I mentioned above, and was
considering various modifications to it, like dropping Unification and
picking up Telepathy. I'm not sure if I could do without Creative...
--
<*> Trebor A. Rude <*>
<*> tre...@msninc.com <*>
<*> http://www.mnsinc.com/ruder/b5/ (NS 3.0 or later) <*>
<*> http://www.mnsinc.com/ruder/b5/non_js_index.html (Other) <*>
Lee Butterfield
> I'm somewhat new to MOO2 (best game so far was Huge, Average,
>Pre-Warp, 5 players, with a race that was Creative, Unified,
>Subterranean, -10 spying, Low-G, and -20 ship defense, although it
>seemed too easy). I was just wondering what you more experienced
>players try to grab when you get Evolutionary Mutation. I tend to
>grab Warlord if I don't already have it. Some other things I've
>considered: Omniscient and +10% score, ditching some spying/combat
>negatives and a plus to score (or turning the negative to a positive),
>and finally a simple +40% to score. What do you all think?
Usually by the time I get to EM I've got the game pretty well in hand,
and just go for the +40% to my score. Not that I'm getting super
monster scores, but it's always fun to get a new high score.
> On another note, how does a colony run by Galactic Unification
>rate against one run by Imperium with all the morale-boosting
>buildings built and achievements achieved? I know that at least in
>the Imperium scheme, the large bonus would apply to scientists too.
>But what about the start of the game, when you don't have all those
>morale-boosters? How much of an effect would it have in an Impossible
>game? I rather like the race design I mentioned above, and was
>considering various modifications to it, like dropping Unification and
>picking up Telepathy. I'm not sure if I could do without Creative...
I really like Democracy. I prefer the research and cash to the food
and production. If you're doing well in tech, it's pretty easy to
keep up in production. The other thing I don't like about unification
is losing the morale stuff. With Holo simulators, virtual reality
network and pleasure domes, you get a 70% bonus to food, production,
research and cash.
If you found average too easy, you may want to move up to hard or
impossible. Here's some custom races you may want to try
(all have negatives to ground combat, spying, and low g)
Creative Lithovores with a Rich planet. (I really like this combo)
Democratic Lithovores with an artifact planet (my favorite
non-creative race - you can start out with something like 45 research
points)
Lithovores may not sound that great, but it's just so liberating to
not have to worry about food. You may want to try life without
Creative. Puts a big wrinkle in the game and makes you think a lot
more, and it's probably helpful since it will make you learn what all
the tech does so you can make intelligent choices. (Missile bases or
automatic factories?) Makes it much more interesting to exchange tech
with your neighbors.
These are pretty good defensive races. The game I like to play is one
where I quickly expand, colonize six to eight systems, then just
develop my worlds, defend them, conquer Orion, and then conquer
Antares, attacking few, if any enemy worlds. My favorite games are the
ones where you are getting the cool tech, and you need it. (These Jump
Gates are going to come in really handy). There's just nothing as cool
as having a planet with a stellar converter and a star fortress get
attacked by five silicoid death stars. Of course, it's much easier to
win if you go on the offensive, but not as much fun.
If you do want to go on the attack, You definitely want telepathy. Try
these...
Creative subterranean telepaths.
Creative unified telepath.
Lee
Trebor A. Rude
>Usually by the time I get to EM I've got the game pretty well in hand,
>and just go for the +40% to my score. Not that I'm getting super
>monster scores, but it's always fun to get a new high score.
I think you're right. From now on, I'll just take the +40%
score, unless there's some area I'm really hurting in, which usually
isn't the case by the time I get EM.
>I really like Democracy. I prefer the research and cash to the food
>and production. If you're doing well in tech, it's pretty easy to
>keep up in production. The other thing I don't like about unification
>is losing the morale stuff. With Holo simulators, virtual reality
>network and pleasure domes, you get a 70% bonus to food, production,
>research and cash.
Never tried Democracy. I'll have to check it out. Research
bonuses are good... And, the morale bonus effects researchers too,
unlike the Unification bonus.
>If you found average too easy, you may want to move up to hard or
>impossible. Here's some custom races you may want to try
Yeah, I'll probably have to do that, after upping the number
of players in the galaxy on Average difficulty and seeing how it
effects things.
>(all have negatives to ground combat, spying, and low g)
Just a note here: I don't like to take ground combat
penalties, because I like to try to capture Antaran ships with lots
and lots of Assault Shuttles as early as I can. I usually take a ship
defense or ship attack penalty, although if I were playing at a higher
level, that might change. Of course, the ground combat penalty is
only -10% whereas the ship penalties are -20%... And I suppose if
you're not playing a creative race, there are a lot better things to
reasearch than the ground combat stuff. I sure as hell wouldn't give
up fusion beams or plasma cannons for fusion rifles or plasma rifles.
>Creative Lithovores with a Rich planet. (I really like this combo)
>Democratic Lithovores with an artifact planet (my favorite
>non-creative race - you can start out with something like 45 research
>points)
Lithovores... Interesting, never tried that. Never having to
assign a single farmer IS a nice research and production bonus at the
beginning of the game, when you need it most. Not to mention you only
need Freighters for moving colonists around, so 50 will probably
suffice and you can spend your time building other things, AND you
don't have to worry about expanding onto Barren and Radiated worlds
early in the game. I kind of like that idea, in my last game I had
over 300 freighters (and neeeded most of them) because of my farming
style... Develop one single world (preferably Huge, and poor/ultra
poor so it basically worthless otherwise) with every farming bonus you
have (Soil enrichment, weather controller, etc.) and use it to produce
food for the entire empire. Nice not needing to worry about it on the
other worlds, but expensive in terms of freighters. (Oh, with this
strategy, I did have the non-farming worlds build at least hydroponic
and subterranean farms to take SOME of the burden off the farming
planet).
BTW, for the Democratic Lithovores with the Artifact world
(which will be my next game, to see how well I get along without
creatvie), you can have 60RP if you assign the entire population to
research (not a brilliant strategy, but what else are you going to do
in the early game?).
>Lithovores may not sound that great, but it's just so liberating to
>not have to worry about food. You may want to try life without
>Creative. Puts a big wrinkle in the game and makes you think a lot
>more, and it's probably helpful since it will make you learn what all
>the tech does so you can make intelligent choices. (Missile bases or
>automatic factories?) Makes it much more interesting to exchange tech
>with your neighbors.
Agreed about Lithovore and doing without Creative. We'll see
how well it works for me...
Oh, and I'd pick Automated Factories. Missle boats are just
as effective, you can design them to make better use of your available
modifications, and they're mobile. Methinks a tougher choice would be
between Robo Miner Plants and Battlestations. Beg/borrow/steal the
one you don't choose, I guess.
>These are pretty good defensive races. The game I like to play is one
>where I quickly expand, colonize six to eight systems, then just
>develop my worlds, defend them, conquer Orion, and then conquer
>Antares, attacking few, if any enemy worlds. My favorite games are the
>ones where you are getting the cool tech, and you need it. (These Jump
>Gates are going to come in really handy). There's just nothing as cool
>as having a planet with a stellar converter and a star fortress get
>attacked by five silicoid death stars. Of course, it's much easier to
>win if you go on the offensive, but not as much fun.
You just described my typical game, although I usually take
the time to dramatcially increase the number of asteroid belts in the
galaxy before I go to Antares. :) But then, I've always been so far
ahead in tech it's ridiculous. Of course, I'm going for the fifty
extra points for eliminating a CP and hoping I don't lost that many in
time points.
>If you do want to go on the attack, You definitely want telepathy. Try
>these...
>
>Creative subterranean telepaths.
I was just trying a race like that, and it was a hideously
slow start. Maybe I was doing it wrong.
>Creative unified telepath.
That sounds a little better. Subterranean is nice, but I
think I'd rather have the faster start that Unification allows.
Matt McLeod
In article <3414a7e6...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
Trebor A. Rude <tre...@mnsinc.com> wrote:
:On Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:01:19 GMT, le...@mail2.quiknet.com (Lee
:Butterfield) wrote:
:>Lithovores may not sound that great, but it's just so liberating to
:>not have to worry about food. You may want to try life without
:>Creative. Puts a big wrinkle in the game and makes you think a lot
:>more, and it's probably helpful since it will make you learn what all
:>the tech does so you can make intelligent choices. (Missile bases or
:>automatic factories?) Makes it much more interesting to exchange tech
:>with your neighbors.
:
: Agreed about Lithovore and doing without Creative. We'll see
:how well it works for me...
:
: Oh, and I'd pick Automated Factories. Missle boats are just
:as effective, you can design them to make better use of your available
:modifications, and they're mobile. Methinks a tougher choice would be
:between Robo Miner Plants and Battlestations. Beg/borrow/steal the
:one you don't choose, I guess.
The hardest pick for me is Class I shields or Mass Drivers. Both are just
amazingly useful in the early game. But since I usually play Uncreative, I
don't have to make the choice very often.
If you usually play Creative, give Uncreative a go - you have to either be
more agressive (conquer CPs to get extra techs) or very very nice (then
they'll do exchanges). You can usually get most of what you want/need
(e.g., in the beam weapons I only really worry about getting Disrupters -
the rest I can take or leave).
Matt
--
Matt McLeod, <mjm(at)attila.apana.org.au>
"Please try to understand before one of us dies".
Lee Butterfield
m...@attila.apana.org.au (Matt McLeod) wrote:
Uncreative? Wow! What does the rest of your race look like? Are you
doing this at impossible? What's your strategy? Usually I just hunker
down and play a defensive game until I can build battleships with
Class 3 shields, Neutron Blasters, Shield Capacitors, Battle Pods,
Battle Scanners, and Reinforced Hulls. But it sounds like you're
building ships a lot sooner.
Lately I've been having fun with a new game plan. On huge impossible,
I play creative dem's with a +1 science bonus. I never leave my
starting system except to conquer Orion and Antares. Makes for a fun
quick defensive game. I get some really great battles, especially if I
reject a council vote.
Matt McLeod
In article <5v3v2r$med$1...@news.quiknet.com>,
Lee Butterfield <le...@mail2.quiknet.com> wrote:
:m...@attila.apana.org.au (Matt McLeod) wrote:
:
:Uncreative? Wow! What does the rest of your race look like? Are you
:doing this at impossible? What's your strategy? Usually I just hunker
:down and play a defensive game until I can build battleships with
:Class 3 shields, Neutron Blasters, Shield Capacitors, Battle Pods,
:Battle Scanners, and Reinforced Hulls. But it sounds like you're
:building ships a lot sooner.
My race varies a lot, but Uncreative is pretty common for me. My current
game is Lithovore, Democracy, Uncreative (something else too, but it can't
be too important 'cause I can't remember it right now). I usually play in
the smaller galaxies, otherwise I spend all the time doing colony
management, which isn't what I want to do.
I usually play on Hard rather than Impossible. I don't grow too much to
start with - maybe two or three systems, it depends what I can get and
reasonably expect to hold. My first ships are usually cruisers, either
loaded up with mass drivers if I can get them, or I wait until I can build
MIRV nuclear missiles and make a couple of missile cruisers.
I don't generally upgrade those ships until I've got some really mean beam
weapon (like disruptoers), although sometimes if some really good sheilds or
computers come my way I'll upgrade (or if I get battle pods - then I'll add
more nukes or mass drivers).
The scouts get upgraded, too - once battle pods arrive, I take out the
extended fuel tanks, give them battle pods and my best beam weapon (or mass
drivers), and sometimes augmented engines. Strangely enough, they often
survive until the end of the game.
Usually I sit back and watch the CPs squabble, making non-agression pacts
and trading techs. If I'm on good terms with the leading CP in an area,
I'll sneak in colony ships when a computer colony gets blasted, and grab
good worlds that way.
Attacking Antares is something I rarely bother with - it's just too easy.
Jari Kujansuu
In article <5v3v2r$med$1...@news.quiknet.com>, le...@mail2.quiknet.com (Lee Butterfield) writes:
>m...@attila.apana.org.au (Matt McLeod) wrote:
>>If you usually play Creative, give Uncreative a go - you have to either be
>>more agressive (conquer CPs to get extra techs) or very very nice (then
>>they'll do exchanges). You can usually get most of what you want/need
>>(e.g., in the beam weapons I only really worry about getting Disrupters -
>>the rest I can take or leav
>
>Uncreative? Wow! What does the rest of your race look like? Are you
>doing this at impossible? What's your strategy? Usually I just hunker
>down and play a defensive game until I can build battleships with
>Class 3 shields, Neutron Blasters, Shield Capacitors, Battle Pods,
>Battle Scanners, and Reinforced Hulls. But it sounds like you're
>building ships a lot sooner.
Tought that I would throw in my race too... played with it on impossible,
8 players (all others computers), biggest universe (huge? or what it is).
And my race was uncreative, feudalism, +1/2 production, +? in spying and
don't remember what others i had... but i think i left 2 points in reserve
so could get subterranean when get to evolutionary mutation.
It was cool when stealed battle pods (had 128 spies and propably stole
5 techs) at same time when got titans, then started to build best possible
ships I could... no shields, battle pods, basic engines (fusion?), some
laser beams for point defense, and loads of pulson missiles... and loads
of nuclear missiles just to take of enemies PD. It was fun when finally
got to Trialian orbit and 3 titans and couple old battle ships fired
all their missiles (every titan had.. about 30 pulson and 20 nuclear missile
tubes) And then my other titan type was almost similar, but fighters
(are they good for point defense, at least that was what my friend told me),
pulson missiles and 10+ assault shuttles (my ground troops were good)
After all were second largest race (largest was repulsive Sakkras next
to me, but too far for my basic fuel cells), but at one point when
was starting my major offensive Darloks who had conquered Orion attacked
my homeworld with 30 battleships equipped with death rays... but it
was fun to that point. :)
Being uncreative feudalism, my only choise was to spread like hell...
build loads of colony ships.. when you meet neighbours, build some
defense forces so they leave you alone. And if you lucky and get
research centre (i wasn't), planetary supercomputer and autolab, you will
get more research points than democracy with bonuses in research...
you just got so damn much population.
jari, the the king of stupid researchers and useless spies
Dan Phillips
Jari.K...@lmf.ericsson.se (Jari Kujansuu) writes:
>And my race was uncreative, feudalism, +1/2 production, +? in spying and
>don't remember what others i had... but i think i left 2 points in reserve
>so could get subterranean when get to evolutionary mutation.
Yeah, I like being Uncreative and Feudal, but I like to throw in
Charismatic, telepathic, and omniscient. I -quickly- build outposts
throughout the galaxy (omniscient makes finding wormholes easy) and
establish trade and research treaties with everyone. Everytime I research
a new tech, I trade it to everybody, so even if I research less, I still
get all the tech. later, I'll get some spies and try to keep teck to
myself, but not until I start really taking off. One of the benefits of
this is that everyone likes you because of the treties and tech trading,
which per transaction rarely goes in your favor, but spread arround 6 or 7
races pushes you up relative to each one. So you expand as much as
possible, wich is fast with feudal, and soon you have the economy to take
out whoever gets aggressive.
I'm not too sure how well the diplomatic side works on imposible, but it
can and will win you a game on hard.
-Dan Phillips
shu...@halcyon.com
Mac
Interesting quirk of Ev Mutation: If you are Lithivore and select
Cybernetic, you gain 6 extra points to play with. You can only use then 4
at a time though, no changing government or such.
Most lithivoric races that have advanced to Mutation already have the
food-producing tech,so cybernetic is not a big loss.
Shawn
Martin Leslie Leuschen
: Never tried Democracy. I'll have to check it out. Research
: bonuses are good... And, the morale bonus effects researchers too,
: unlike the Unification bonus.
Watch the spy penalty - it's -20% vompared to Empire, -25% to
Unification. Don't expect to keep your new techs very long...
: Just a note here: I don't like to take ground combat
: penalties, because I like to try to capture Antaran ships with lots
: and lots of Assault Shuttles as early as I can. I usually take a ship
Very wise, if you can pull it off. Note that Antarans have +100 combat
and powered armor...
: up fusion beams or plasma cannons for fusion rifles or plasma rifles.
I would. I prefer mass drivers to fusion beams, and shield piercing,
autofiring phasors to plasmas. (1.31)
Try them some time!
martinl
Bob Bingham
Hmmm, Creative AND telepathic? Not so sure that's a real great
combo. Creative races are some of the few to actually have all
the hand weapons and shields, so they tend to do pretty well
on the ground. One of the telepathic's biggest gifts is to be
able to capture a planet instantly.
Mass Driver? Shield 1? The Mass Driver can be nice (particularly
for ships designed to hold back and dissipate warp or lay down
massive missile salvoes), but the shield doesn't seem to do much
more than give your ship a pretty glow when it gets nailed. I
always grab the ECM for that pick.
What's real annoying is the fargin ion cannons. They are great
against enemy ships but they do zilch against critters and
Antarans. Every time I get them (not much choice with a Creative
race) I invariably get a planet hit by a monster or Antarans
and the base is armed to the teeth with the ion cannons. Arg!
Bob "Da Sloth" Bingham (http://www.sky.net/~sloth)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matt McLeod
In article <5vaa25$ag$1...@alpha.sky.net>, Bob Bingham <sl...@sky.net> wrote:
:Hmmm, Creative AND telepathic? Not so sure that's a real great
:combo. Creative races are some of the few to actually have all
:the hand weapons and shields, so they tend to do pretty well
:on the ground. One of the telepathic's biggest gifts is to be
:able to capture a planet instantly.
It also means that you don't have to put production into transports, and you
can capture colonies intact rather than having to bomb the crap out of them
first.
:Mass Driver? Shield 1? The Mass Driver can be nice (particularly
:for ships designed to hold back and dissipate warp or lay down
:massive missile salvoes), but the shield doesn't seem to do much
:more than give your ship a pretty glow when it gets nailed. I
:always grab the ECM for that pick.
In the early game, the shield can give your ships a longer life in battle -
reduces damage from enemy fire, so you can get more shots in.
:What's real annoying is the fargin ion cannons. They are great
:against enemy ships but they do zilch against critters and
:Antarans. Every time I get them (not much choice with a Creative
:race) I invariably get a planet hit by a monster or Antarans
:and the base is armed to the teeth with the ion cannons. Arg!
That is annoying, yes. You should be able to outfit bases the same way as
ships. For example, I prefer to have lots of PD mass drivers over some of
the fancier beam weapons in the PD slot. Sometimes you want to have
below-par weapons so you can fit more in.
Matt
Bob Bingham
On 12 Sep 1997 15:00:55 +1000, Matt McLeod <m...@attila.apana.org.au> issued forth:
MM~It also means that you don't have to put production into transports, and you
MM~can capture colonies intact rather than having to bomb the crap out of them
MM~first.
A creative race, particularly after the game is well under way, shouldn't need
to bomb first. They should have plenty of production, good enough engines
to get transports out quickly, and the trooper-specific techs to win the day
even with a small army. You still have to convert them, which is a pain,
but not so much so that it's worth all those points.
MM~:Mass Driver? Shield 1? The Mass Driver can be nice (particularly
MM~:for ships designed to hold back and dissipate warp or lay down
MM~:massive missile salvoes), but the shield doesn't seem to do much
MM~:more than give your ship a pretty glow when it gets nailed. I
MM~:always grab the ECM for that pick.
MM~In the early game, the shield can give your ships a longer life in battle -
MM~reduces damage from enemy fire, so you can get more shots in.
In the early game, an ECM can give your ships longer life in battle. Reduces
damage from enemy missiles, so you can get more shots in. Also doesn't
have as many chances for upgrade as the Shields so it's STILL helping you
out mid-game and possibly even late game.
MM~That is annoying, yes. You should be able to outfit bases the same way as
MM~ships. For example, I prefer to have lots of PD mass drivers over some of
MM~the fancier beam weapons in the PD slot. Sometimes you want to have
MM~below-par weapons so you can fit more in.
For sure. If they give us the ability to do this, though, I expect we
will also be forced to actually pay for the upgrade of the base. You might
even get caught with your base only partialy active while it's being
refitted.
Bob "Da Sloth" Bingham (http://www.sky.net/~sloth)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Well what does she expect? You leave your navigator lying around,
naturally somebody's gonna run over him." -- from "Deathrace 2000"
Trebor A. Rude
On 14 Sep 1997 21:51:05 GMT, Bob Bingham <sl...@sky.net> wrote:
>On 12 Sep 1997 15:00:55 +1000, Matt McLeod <m...@attila.apana.org.au> issued forth:
>
>MM~In the early game, the shield can give your ships a longer life in battle -
>MM~reduces damage from enemy fire, so you can get more shots in.
>
>In the early game, an ECM can give your ships longer life in battle. Reduces
>damage from enemy missiles, so you can get more shots in. Also doesn't
>have as many chances for upgrade as the Shields so it's STILL helping you
>out mid-game and possibly even late game.
But, ECM is much more easily countered than shields are. ECCM
is a fairly common missile mod for the AI to use, and any scanner tech
(Neutron Scanners, Tachyon Scanners, Sensors, etc.) reduces your ECM's
effectiveness. Shields work against both missiles and beams, and
there just aren't many (if ANY) shield-piercing weapons around in the
beginning of the game (they're more common later, but still not as
common as the ECM-defeating techs).
>MM~That is annoying, yes. You should be able to outfit bases the same way as
>MM~ships. For example, I prefer to have lots of PD mass drivers over some of
>MM~the fancier beam weapons in the PD slot. Sometimes you want to have
>MM~below-par weapons so you can fit more in.
>
>For sure. If they give us the ability to do this, though, I expect we
>will also be forced to actually pay for the upgrade of the base. You might
>even get caught with your base only partialy active while it's being
>refitted.
I wouldn't mind that added bit of realism. Although, it would
be nice if it would be a progressive upgrade... For example if you got
attacked while the upgrade was only 50% done, each weapons bay would
only have 50% of the weapons in it. Probably have to roll the dice to
determine if the special systems were added yet.
Keith Rohrer
Lee Butterfield wrote:
> I really like Democracy. I prefer the research and cash to the food
> and production. If you're doing well in tech, it's pretty easy to
> keep up in production. The other thing I don't like about unification
> is losing the morale stuff. With Holo simulators, virtual reality
> network and pleasure domes, you get a 70% bonus to food, production,
> research and cash.
peeve that keeps me out of Democracy.
More importantly, I've discovered that:
Creative without research plusses doesn't do as well as Creative and
research plusses: it doesn't help miniaturization, and therefore doesn't
do as much for ship combat as the same points spent on production or
research.
Food bonuses are production and research bonuses in disguise, as they
free up workers. Likewise, production bonuses are research bonuses in
disguise, though if you're tolerant you may forget to shift the workers
into research.
Corrolary: Soil Enrichment and Terraforming are musts. Together they
let me put very few colonists on farming even one step above Barren;
near-total and total Terraforming also increase the population maxima.
Production bonuses of one sort or another seem necessary, even with
research plusses, to keep the numbers of scientists high.
Creative is a spying and ground combat bonus--a rather large ground
combat bonus over time--as research you need brings in side benefits
like rifle improvements, personal shields, stealth suits, etc...
Population bonuses eventually become bonuses in the other areas; as
planets have population maxima, it seems better to get the production
and research bonuses directly, plus a lower population is a food bonus
in and of itself...
My current favorite:
Unification (6) (food and production bonuses)
Creative (8)
Research +1 (3)
Large Homeworld (1)
Rich Homeworld (2) (fast start
Low Gravity (-5)
Spying -10 (-3)
Ground Combat -10 (-2)
This race is well rounded; evolved from the Psilon mold, I call them the
Rodan (brownie points to anyone who can guess the origin of the name).
I used to go Subterranean, but now do Terraforming instead. The
Research Lab/Automated Factory/basic space stuff/Planetary
Supercomputer/Robo Miners path is a good start...
Keith
--
"It moved faster. I swear, they are evolving right before my eyes. If
you
see something this big, with eight legs coming your way, let me know; I
have
to kill it before it develops language skills." -- Ambassador Londo
Mollari,
in 'Sic Transit Vir'
Keith Rohrer
Matt McLeod wrote:
> The hardest pick for me is Class I shields or Mass Drivers. Both are just
> amazingly useful in the early game. But since I usually play Uncreative, I
> don't have to make the choice very often.
planetary shielding, or heavy (V or VII) ship-based shields. I find
Class I shields to be a waste of space, especially if I'm Cybernetic, as
they're so thin.
Keith
--
The wisdom of G'Kar:
Bad Guys make a very satisfying THUMP when they hit the
ground. But to thump the book of G'Quan is disrespectful.
Keith Rohrer
Bob Bingham wrote:
> What's real annoying is the fargin ion cannons. They are great
> against enemy ships but they do zilch against critters and
> Antarans. Every time I get them (not much choice with a Creative
> race) I invariably get a planet hit by a monster or Antarans
> and the base is armed to the teeth with the ion cannons. Arg!
or Gauss Cannon, so that doesn't tend to be a problem for me...
Keith Rohrer
Trebor A. Rude wrote:
>
> On 14 Sep 1997 21:51:05 GMT, Bob Bingham <sl...@sky.net> wrote:
>
> >On 12 Sep 1997 15:00:55 +1000, Matt McLeod <m...@attila.apana.org.au> issued forth:
> >
> >MM~In the early game, the shield can give your ships a longer life in battle -
> >MM~reduces damage from enemy fire, so you can get more shots in.
> >
> >In the early game, an ECM can give your ships longer life in battle. Reduces
> >damage from enemy missiles, so you can get more shots in. Also doesn't
> >have as many chances for upgrade as the Shields so it's STILL helping you
> >out mid-game and possibly even late game.
>
> But, ECM is much more easily countered than shields are. ECCM
> is a fairly common missile mod for the AI to use, and any scanner tech
> (Neutron Scanners, Tachyon Scanners, Sensors, etc.) reduces your ECM's
> effectiveness. Shields work against both missiles and beams, and
> there just aren't many (if ANY) shield-piercing weapons around in the
> beginning of the game (they're more common later, but still not as
> common as the ECM-defeating techs).
shields do against anything but PD fusions fired at extreme range. One
point per attack can be significant...but not nearly as significant as
Reinforced Hull or Heavy Armor...and I don't tend to notice Class 3
shields in the face of a fleet capable of taking them down, let alone
Class 1...
> >MM~That is annoying, yes. You should be able to outfit bases the same way as
> >MM~ships. For example, I prefer to have lots of PD mass drivers over some of
> >MM~the fancier beam weapons in the PD slot. Sometimes you want to have
> >MM~below-par weapons so you can fit more in.
> >
> >For sure. If they give us the ability to do this, though, I expect we
> >will also be forced to actually pay for the upgrade of the base. You might
> >even get caught with your base only partialy active while it's being
> >refitted.
>
> I wouldn't mind that added bit of realism. Although, it would
> be nice if it would be a progressive upgrade... For example if you got
> attacked while the upgrade was only 50% done, each weapons bay would
> only have 50% of the weapons in it. Probably have to roll the dice to
> determine if the special systems were added yet.
There would have to be a major change to do this, which would in turn
also vastly improve the ship refit system. If you put a refit into the
queue, you can't change it at all short of producing it then refitting
it again; also, as soon as a refit goes into the queue the ship gets
taken out of the picture. I'd like to be able to keep my fleet at
nearly full strength while refitting it, or cancel planned refits (that
haven't been worked on yet, but I queued them up for my convenience)...
Larry Chang
Keith Rohrer wrote:
>
> My current favorite:
> Unification (6) (food and production bonuses)
> Creative (8)
> Research +1 (3)
> Large Homeworld (1)
> Rich Homeworld (2) (fast start
> Low Gravity (-5)
> Spying -10 (-3)
> Ground Combat -10 (-2)
> This race is well rounded; evolved from the Psilon mold, I call them the
> Rodan (brownie points to anyone who can guess the origin of the name).
> I used to go Subterranean, but now do Terraforming instead. The
> Research Lab/Automated Factory/basic space stuff/Planetary
> Supercomputer/Robo Miners path is a good start...
I used to play Creative all the time. But I have most fun on a game
that I don't. I am still trying to spy or take the remaining Klackon
planet so that I can get the one tech that I want. I now start
diplomacy with other races (to exchange techs). Before I get Doom star
construction tech, I trade with others for every tech, so that they
won't ask me to exchange Doom star when I get it. And so on.
Larry
Keith Rohrer
Larry Chang wrote:
> I used to play Creative all the time. But I have most fun on a game
> that I don't. I am still trying to spy or take the remaining Klackon
> planet so that I can get the one tech that I want. I now start
> diplomacy with other races (to exchange techs). Before I get Doom star
> construction tech, I trade with others for every tech, so that they
> won't ask me to exchange Doom star when I get it. And so on.
Impossible doesn't exactly lend itself to fair tech exchanges except
between humans...
Larry Chang
Keith Rohrer wrote:
>
> Larry Chang wrote:
> > I used to play Creative all the time. But I have most fun on a game
> > that I don't. I am still trying to spy or take the remaining Klackon
> > planet so that I can get the one tech that I want. I now start
> > diplomacy with other races (to exchange techs). Before I get Doom star
> > construction tech, I trade with others for every tech, so that they
> > won't ask me to exchange Doom star when I get it. And so on.
> I can win without Creative...but not on huge/impossible/8. And
> Impossible doesn't exactly lend itself to fair tech exchanges except
> between humans...
>
> Keith
>
Neither can I without Creative :) I am playing on Hard level only
without Creative. Actually, I need to play with Advanced Techs setting
in Impossible in order to win (ie, all players start with 7 colonies).
Larry
dsh...@nova.wright.edu
In article <341EB9...@netvigator.com>, Larry Chang <larryc...@netvigator.com> writes:
> Keith Rohrer wrote:
>> I can win without Creative...but not on huge/impossible/8. And
>> Impossible doesn't exactly lend itself to fair tech exchanges except
>> between humans...
> Neither can I without Creative :) I am playing on Hard level only
> without Creative. Actually, I need to play with Advanced Techs setting
> in Impossible in order to win (ie, all players start with 7 colonies).
You might try playing a charismatic species. Even with BaaUtil
I can almost always win at any setting with charisma. YMMV.
I find my funnest games by far are the uncreative games.
I have to scrounge and work with what I have.
dfs
Lone_War
Larry Chang wrote:
>
> Keith Rohrer wrote:
> >
> > Larry Chang wrote:
> > > I used to play Creative all the time. But I have most fun on a game
> > > that I don't. I am still trying to spy or take the remaining Klackon
> > > planet so that I can get the one tech that I want. I now start
> > > diplomacy with other races (to exchange techs). Before I get Doom star
> > > construction tech, I trade with others for every tech, so that they
> > > won't ask me to exchange Doom star when I get it. And so on.
> > Impossible doesn't exactly lend itself to fair tech exchanges except
> > between humans...
> >
> >
>
> Neither can I without Creative :) I am playing on Hard level only
> without Creative. Actually, I need to play with Advanced Techs setting
> in Impossible in order to win (ie, all players start with 7 colonies).
I don't know what the problem is in a prewarp/huge/impossible/8. I seem
to be able to beat it about 75% of the time. Of course I play,
Uncreative -4, Repulsive -6, Subterreanean +6, Spying 20% + 6,
Telepathic +6, and Rich +2. By about turn 450, if I got Phasors and
Stellas, the game is won. If I don't I am in deep s***. Of course, if I
start out near the Sakkras or Humans, I lose to the Sakkras and declare
holy war on the humans, but that is just me.
BTW, I have always played the Elerian picture, so I don't know what
facing a telepath is like.
--
Billie F. Krieger III
Dragon Clan Spy/Trader
Death is a feather, Duty is a mountain.
Keith Rohrer
Lone_War wrote:
> I don't know what the problem is in a prewarp/huge/impossible/8. I seem
> to be able to beat it about 75% of the time. Of course I play,
> Uncreative -4, Repulsive -6, Subterreanean +6, Spying 20% + 6,
> Telepathic +6, and Rich +2. By about turn 450, if I got Phasors and
> Stellas, the game is won. If I don't I am in deep s***. Of course, if I
> start out near the Sakkras or Humans, I lose to the Sakkras and declare
> holy war on the humans, but that is just me.
yet counting on certan techs? Also, how much do you expand early on?
It sounds like you hole up in a system or two, and if you got a good
system and don't actually have to defend yourself, you build a couple
Eggshells of Death and turn the inhabited galaxy into asteroid belts...
Lone_War
Keith Rohrer wrote:
>
> Lone_War wrote:
> > I don't know what the problem is in a prewarp/huge/impossible/8. I seem
> > to be able to beat it about 75% of the time. Of course I play,
> > Uncreative -4, Repulsive -6, Subterreanean +6, Spying 20% + 6,
> > Telepathic +6, and Rich +2. By about turn 450, if I got Phasors and
> > Stellas, the game is won. If I don't I am in deep s***. Of course, if I
> > start out near the Sakkras or Humans, I lose to the Sakkras and declare
> > holy war on the humans, but that is just me.
> What research path do you follow? And why are you playing Uncreative
> yet counting on certan techs? Also, how much do you expand early on?
> It sounds like you hole up in a system or two, and if you got a good
> system and don't actually have to defend yourself, you build a couple
> Eggshells of Death and turn the inhabited galaxy into asteroid belts...
First I research the early "All" techs, then to Food 400, then to
Computers 400, then Factories 400, then to Space Academy, then Comps
1500, Factory 1500, Missiles two levels, Shields 3 levels, Food to
terraforming, Max Comps, max factories, max Missiles, max Lasors, max
shields, max engines, max Sociology, max food. This is basically my
research path. The key techs here are Mass Drivers, and Planetary
Shields. I play uncreative, because I like the randomness factor
involved in the game. I play repulsive, because the bad guys allow me
more leeway before they come gunning for me. I usually expand to about 4
or 5 systems early on, and then build those systems. Spy on everybody,
they will try to kill you anyway. Kill the Humans, they are the most
backstabbing, ruthless people I have met in the game. And if the goto
war with you late game, they invite the whole galaxy. And yah, if I get
phasors and Stella, I will blow away the galaxy. Steal spying tech and
leave the Psilons alone, as they provide all the neato tech.
This is basically how I do it.
Jay Lou
In article <341F565F...@enteract.com>, Keith Rohrer <kwro...@enteract.com> writes:
> Larry Chang wrote:
> > I used to play Creative all the time. But I have most fun on a game
> > that I don't. I am still trying to spy or take the remaining Klackon
> > planet so that I can get the one tech that I want. I now start
> > diplomacy with other races (to exchange techs). Before I get Doom star
> > construction tech, I trade with others for every tech, so that they
> > won't ask me to exchange Doom star when I get it. And so on.
> I can win without Creative...but not on huge/impossible/8. And
> Impossible doesn't exactly lend itself to fair tech exchanges except
> between humans...
>
>
> --
> The wisdom of G'Kar:
> Bad Guys make a very satisfying THUMP when they hit the
> ground. But to thump the book of G'Quan is disrespectful.
I played creative for the first two weeks, then I stopped. It's quite easy to
win on Impossible/8, I don't usually play huge, only large. But I imagine it's very much the same. The following is my can't fail strategy, well, almost can't fail.
Pick Charismatic! In the impossible/8 setting, it's probably the best pick considering how cheap it is. I have only gotten the autolab guy playing charismatic, and you can research/trade with all non-repulsive races. As for other picks, I used to take subterranean, but it doesn't seem to be useful in my strategy as I never find enough colonists anyways. I like tolerant, also large/rich homeworld. Take your favourite negatives, leave two spare picks if you really want to finish the game fast.
Early on only build colonies on good worlds (medium/rich or large/abundant), build outposts, especially at the far end of a wormhole. This will put you in contact with most race fairly fast, pray that most of them are not repulsive. Sign treaty with everyone, bribe them if needed. Meanwhile send your scouts around and hope they will get killed by monsters. You probably need two or more of those super worlds (gaia/terran, large/huge and rich/u-rich). Usually they are guarded. Build a battleship with tritani
um armor, reinforced hull, battlepods and as many mirv/fast nukes as you can fit. These will take out anything except dragons. For dragons, add heavy armor or fast missle rack. Take out the monsters and build up those super worlds. In the mean time research the following: fast missle rack, emission guidance, chemistry up to zortium armor. Now build 5 battleships with tritanium/zortium armor, reinforced hull, battlepods, fast missle racks, and as many EMG/fully modified merculite missles. These ships will
take out the guardian most of the time. The exception being the guardian blow your first ship up with its first shot. In that case you can reload, delay a turn, or talk to some race and retry. Or you can just build a 6th ship. I usually take out the guardian around turn 200.
Now you can take over the universe with avenger. Or if you had left two spare picks, headed straight for evolutionary mutation and pick telepathic. Refit your battleship with a few death rays and teleporters. Your fleet can then mind control the entire universe. You may get bored soon as your ships sweeping through the universe and take over ships, starbases and colonies.
As I said this strategy can fail, but that happens only when you cannot find those great planets or a repulsive neighbour declare war on you before your battleship is built.
One thing I noticed, the turn summary doesn't tell you what tech you found on Orion. No, I don't mean Loknar's techs, I mean the one or two you get for finding an artifact world first. They are usually great techs, once I even got damper field.
Jay
Keith Rohrer
Lone_War wrote:
>
> Keith Rohrer wrote:
> >
> > Lone_War wrote:
> > > I don't know what the problem is in a prewarp/huge/impossible/8. I seem
> > > to be able to beat it about 75% of the time. Of course I play,
> > > Uncreative -4, Repulsive -6, Subterreanean +6, Spying 20% + 6,
> > > Telepathic +6, and Rich +2. By about turn 450, if I got Phasors and
> > > Stellas, the game is won. If I don't I am in deep s***. Of course, if I
> > > start out near the Sakkras or Humans, I lose to the Sakkras and declare
> > > holy war on the humans, but that is just me.
> > What research path do you follow? And why are you playing Uncreative
> > yet counting on certan techs? Also, how much do you expand early on?
> > It sounds like you hole up in a system or two, and if you got a good
> > system and don't actually have to defend yourself, you build a couple
> > Eggshells of Death and turn the inhabited galaxy into asteroid belts...
>
> First I research the early "All" techs, then to Food 400, then to
> Computers 400, then Factories 400, then to Space Academy, then Comps
> 1500, Factory 1500, Missiles two levels, Shields 3 levels, Food to
> terraforming, Max Comps, max factories, max Missiles, max Lasors, max
> shields, max engines, max Sociology, max food. This is basically my
> research path.
up to the 2000 RP level and am systematically crushing the opposition.
It does make a difference what the enemy manages to research though;
usually I persue Fields all the way through Gauss Cannon (using AP AF
Mass Drivers until then, and grabbing a decent beam weapon if I see a
lot of heavy armor), but in my current game (the repulsive Sakkra
surrendered half an empire to the repulsive uncreative Trilarians) the
dominant Trilarians have Class 7 shields, Hard Shields, and otherwise
just plain aren't scratchable by Mass Drivers. I'm still wishing that
Plasma Cannon had a direct-fire (skip enveloping, just hurt the facing
shield more) option like Hellbores in SFB...
> The key techs here are Mass Drivers, and Planetary
> Shields. I play uncreative, because I like the randomness factor
> involved in the game.
I find myself too dependent on a good distribution of techs when I play
uncreative. Thousands of RP before I can research any production
increasing, research increasing, or ship range increasing techs just
sucks...
> I play repulsive, because the bad guys allow me
> more leeway before they come gunning for me.
As repulsive, I tend to have to fight one or two more wars at a time
than I can conveniently handle, and usually the extra foe or two are
competent (e.g. Psilons, Sakkra, Klackon; not Bulrathi or Mrrshan).
Normally, even on Impossible, about half the galaxy is willing to play
nice and treat with you while you kill off the nasty half.
> I usually expand to about 4
> or 5 systems early on, and then build those systems.
4-5 is my absolute upper limit of what I can manage to stake out, even
if all my neighbors are nice (and usually I wind up next to Sakkra or
Klackon or Silicoids, all of whom manage to breed like rabbits even with
-50% population growth). Often I get caught with a half-finished colony
ship when neighbors snatch the nice worlds out from under me...
> Spy on everybody,
> they will try to kill you anyway. Kill the Humans, they are the most
> backstabbing, ruthless people I have met in the game. And if the goto
> war with you late game, they invite the whole galaxy. And yah, if I get
> phasors and Stella, I will blow away the galaxy. Steal spying tech and
> leave the Psilons alone, as they provide all the neato tech.
How do you "steal spying tech"? I wasn't aware you could send your
spies after a specific technology...and if you're trying to steal it,
chances are the people with the tech will make it difficult... It's
usually mid-game before I can actually wage war against someone I don't
like, while computer players can do the reverse much earlier (because of
Impossible)...this makes Humans just damned annoying.