MOO2:Are Random events really Random???
GUI TERENCE ANG
I don't know if anyone has encountered this before, but I've had something
somewhat peculiar happen in one of my games - twice.
The first one: I had about 10 spies in my pool, so they should be
counteracting whatever activities enemy spies must be doing, sure, this
isn't 100% effective, but I had a huge tech lead so I thought I was pretty
save. Anyways, on a particular turn I was informed that the Sakkra stole
one of my tech, sure, this could happen. It so happened I had saved my
game the last turn, so restored that game, ended my turn - lo and behold,
the Sakkra stole the same exact tech again. Coincidence? I tried this
several times, always with the same exact result. Hmmm.. maybe the
outcome was already pre-determined the turn before. Okay, so I selected
the autosave game, which saved the game 3 turns before - I played this
game, and 3 turns later - guess what happened? This didn't happen in MOO,
so I thought it was pretty wierd. Anyways since I was winning I didn't
really care about them stealing one measly tech from me.
The second one: Same game, it's quite a bit later in the game (I'd say 70
turns later) and I'm still ahead of all the races by a longshot. The next
turn comes up, and the GNN news robot informs me that a subspace anomaly
has appeared over my home world - which happens to my center of
production. So all production stops on every planet in my home system - 0
research, 0 production, 0 everything (oddly enough, my planet was still
production waste as if I was in normal production). I've got a Colony
ship 1 turn to completion, but it can't be built because of this anomaly.
From here pretty much the same thing happens as did in situation #1 -
I restored a game 6 turns prior, and each and every time I get to the
current turn - BAM - I'm hit with a subspace anomaly.
Is this how the game runs? I'm guessing that random events are generated
many turns beforehand, and they simply stick some kind of countdown timer
on it, and it activates when you reach a specific turn. I don't mind
getting stuck with random events - as long as they're exactly that -
RANDOM. I'd hate to think that the game was out to get me just because
I'm ahead in the game - seems like a cheap way to bog my race down.
TAG
traker
:Same sort of thing has happened to me on several occasions and I played
:around with saves confirm, just as you did. Definition of "random"
:certainly is in conflict with what we've both seen.
--
Another day in paradise...
vmo...@netcom.com
andy
I think what happened here is that the "rnadon" number generator that
they used simply uses a "seeded" generator - which is really handy for
debuggin and such - you can repeat events. etc. But as a game play
option, they really hosed it up if they left this in. I.e. its a bug.
traker <vmo...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<vmonroeE...@netcom.com>...
U.S. Grant
On 30 Nov 1996 06:20:01 GMT, "andy" <an...@dimensional.com> wrote:
>I think what happened here is that the "rnadon" number generator that
>they used simply uses a "seeded" generator - which is really handy for
>debuggin and such - you can repeat events. etc. But as a game play
>option, they really hosed it up if they left this in. I.e. its a bug.
>
Why exactly would you consider a feature that prevents cheating by
reloading saved games a bug? As long as the seed is randomized at the
start of a game, the events are random for anyone who does not cheat.
U.S. Grant
Irwin Pui-Yin Choy
GUI TERENCE ANG <e0fq...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Maybe they want to prevent cheating by saving the random events if you
restore a saved game. Yes, I consider it cheating if you restore a
saved game to avoid bad random events.
Or, all the random events are determined at the start of each game ...
Irwin
----------------------------------------------------------
Irwin Pui-Yin Choy
e-mail: pyc...@unity.ncsu.edu
Master of Parks, Recreation and Tourism Management program
North Carolina State University
Roberto Ullfig
andy <an...@dimensional.com> wrote in article
<01bbde87$14f9ff60$0bb4...@druid.dimensional.com>...
> I think what happened here is that the "rnadon" number generator that
> they used simply uses a "seeded" generator - which is really handy for
> debuggin and such - you can repeat events. etc. But as a game play
> option, they really hosed it up if they left this in. I.e. its a bug.
I disagree. The seeds should be saved with the games. It prevents reloading
games to get around events. In my opinion seeds should always be saved in
games like these.
David Leary
In article <Pine.SUN.3.94.961129...@tuzo.erin>,
>many turns beforehand, and they simply stick some kind of countdown timer
>on it, and it activates when you reach a specific turn. I don't mind
>getting stuck with random events - as long as they're exactly that -
>RANDOM. I'd hate to think that the game was out to get me just because
>I'm ahead in the game - seems like a cheap way to bog my race down.
I'm not entirely sure what your complaint is. Whether the game's events
are generated several turns before they happen or not doesn't seem to have
any bearing on whether or not they're "random." As far as picking on the
player who's ahead, I don't think it does that. I was (finally) winning a
game yesterday by a LOT, and bad stuff was happening to those nasty
Sakkra.
BTW, has anyone noticed that the Sakkra seem to be a major player in the
new MOO2 universe? They regularly crush such old computer-player winners
as the Klackons and Sillicoids, and do a nice job of making mincemeat out
of me half the time.
-----
Dave Leary
(Nope, my views don't represent UMAB...good thing, huh?)
"I've been of thousand devils caught,
And thrust into that horrid place,
Where reign dismay, despair, disgrace." -- George Crabbe
Nicholas Hills
GUI TERENCE ANG wrote:
>
<spying observation snipped>
> The second one: Same game, it's quite a bit later in the game (I'd say 70
> turns later) and I'm still ahead of all the races by a longshot. The next
> turn comes up, and the GNN news robot informs me that a subspace anomaly
> has appeared over my home world - which happens to my center of
> production. So all production stops on every planet in my home system - 0
> research, 0 production, 0 everything (oddly enough, my planet was still
> production waste as if I was in normal production). I've got a Colony
> ship 1 turn to completion, but it can't be built because of this anomaly.
> From here pretty much the same thing happens as did in situation #1 -
> I restored a game 6 turns prior, and each and every time I get to the
> current turn - BAM - I'm hit with a subspace anomaly.
>
> many turns beforehand, and they simply stick some kind of countdown timer
> on it, and it activates when you reach a specific turn. I don't mind
> getting stuck with random events - as long as they're exactly that -
> RANDOM. I'd hate to think that the game was out to get me just because
> I'm ahead in the game - seems like a cheap way to bog my race down.
>
the
previous version of MOO.
In the original MOO (what *are* we going to call it? MOO1? MOO
Classic?) you
could save the game at the end of each turn. If you suffered a random
event you didn't like, you could restore a save game and try again. As
the random event was generated during the interturn interface, it might
not happen the second time round or be a different event or effect a
different race.
If MOO2 is generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, then putting
it in a queue, I'm impressed. I 'dips me lid' to Simtex. We game
players are lazy *and* dishonest. (Well, some of us are). We'll replay
a turn to avoid a bad random event, but are we prepared to replay 8, 10
or 12 turns just to avoid the unpleasantness?
Nich
Nathan Eberhart
Nicholas Hills wrote:
>
> GUI TERENCE ANG wrote:
> >
stuff snipped
>
> If MOO2 is generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, then putting
> it in a queue, I'm impressed. I 'dips me lid' to Simtex. We game
> players are lazy *and* dishonest. (Well, some of us are). We'll replay
> a turn to avoid a bad random event, but are we prepared to replay 8, 10
> or 12 turns just to avoid the unpleasantness?
>
> Nich
Same thoughts on generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, people
cheat too much in general. As far as events being truly random and not
hurting the person who is ahead, that is a good question. I have been
playing with another person over kali (win95 moo2 1.2 & kali 1.1b). We
are up to 130+ turns, I have had first the Antarans and then an Amoebae
attack my colonies. He hasn't had anything special attack him.
History charts show that I am ahead in population and he is ahead in
everything else. Getting suspicious random isn't truly "random".
Nate
Irwin Pui-Yin Choy
Nathan Eberhart <natha...@enter.net> wrote:
>History charts show that I am ahead in population and he is ahead in
>everything else. Getting suspicious random isn't truly "random".
Well, if you are really suspicious of "random" events picking on you,
don't be ahead :P
Niko Kristian Nitovuori
GUI TERENCE ANG wrote:
<snipety-snip>
> Is this how the game runs? I'm guessing that random events are generated
> many turns beforehand, and they simply stick some kind of countdown timer
> on it, and it activates when you reach a specific turn. I don't mind
> getting stuck with random events - as long as they're exactly that -
> RANDOM. I'd hate to think that the game was out to get me just because
> I'm ahead in the game - seems like a cheap way to bog my race down.
>
> TAG
I'd say that this is a good thing (generating random events beforehand).
This, IMO, prevents cheating... I remember playing CIV and saving
everytime I encountered a village. If I didn't get something fun
out of there then I loaded it again and again... With pre-generated
villages that wouldn't have been possible.
It might even be that the computer generates the events in beginning
of the game! That would really stop these "load-cheats".
Maybe you should make a Lucky custom race if you think your computer
is bogging you :)
-Niko (still waiting to get The Game)
Rick DiBlasi (Montoya)
On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, GUI TERENCE ANG wrote:
[snip]
> Is this how the game runs? I'm guessing that random events are generated
> many turns beforehand, and they simply stick some kind of countdown timer
> on it, and it activates when you reach a specific turn. [snip]
If I remember correctly, that's how MOM did it. I belive MOM only did it
ONE turn before the event appeared. It's been awhile since I've looked at
the MOM saved game file, but I seem to remember something like this...
If the value was 2, the event would happen next turn.
If the value was 1, than the event was currently taking place.
And a value of 0, meant no event...
Anyway, the point being that it wouldn't suprise me if MooII did something
like this. But if original Moo is any indication, you may be right...some
of the events may not be random at all.
Like in the original Moo, if you got TOO friendly with a race for an
extended period of time, your ambassador would kill the alien one
(something like that).
Or maybe certain situations increase the chance of a random event
happening substantially.
I am still in the process of hacking though the Moo II saved game file,
and I haven't found the random events yet. Actually, I haven't found much
of anything yet, I am having too much fun playing the game to bother with
the saved game files. :)
Rick
Lawless
David Leary (dle...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu) wrote:
: As far as picking on the
: player who's ahead, I don't think it does that. I was (finally) winning a
: game yesterday by a LOT, and bad stuff was happening to those nasty
: Sakkra.
I suspect the randoms are weighted against the winning player, as that's
how they did it in the original. If you're losing, you're somewhat more
likely to get a good event than a bad; if you're romping, the opposite is
true. Helps to give a race more of a chance / challenge, supposedly.
I've a theory though, that it's also automatically somewhat weighted against
the human player, possibly depending on the difficulty level.
: BTW, has anyone noticed that the Sakkra seem to be a major player in the
: new MOO2 universe? They regularly crush such old computer-player winners
: as the Klackons and Sillicoids, and do a nice job of making mincemeat out
: of me half the time.
Yeh, sakkras do look pretty good.
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (law...@netcom.com / law...@eskimo.com)
--
-- If violence isn't the answer then I don't understand the question.
Dennis Benker
On 30 Nov 1996 06:20:01 GMT, "andy" <an...@dimensional.com> wrote:
>I think what happened here is that the "rnadon" number generator that
>they used simply uses a "seeded" generator - which is really handy for
>debuggin and such - you can repeat events. etc. But as a game play
>option, they really hosed it up if they left this in. I.e. its a bug.
>
Someone told me there was a startup option called "/seed=". If so you
might be able to restart and use another seed value to get a different
result.
GUI TERENCE ANG
On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Irwin Pui-Yin Choy wrote:
> GUI TERENCE ANG <e0fq...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Maybe they want to prevent cheating by saving the random events if you
> restore a saved game. Yes, I consider it cheating if you restore a
> saved game to avoid bad random events.
Well, I attempted that reload "cheat" on my very first game when I was
getting used to the game. But now that I'm used to MOO2 I'll probably be
finding ways to make it more difficult, because right now the game isn't
providing much of a challenge.
> Or, all the random events are determined at the start of each game ...
Probably not, since they game could go on indefinately and they'd have to
store quite a number of random events.
> Irwin
TAG
GUI TERENCE ANG
On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Nicholas Hills wrote:
> In the original MOO (what *are* we going to call it? MOO1? MOO
> Classic?) you
> could save the game at the end of each turn. If you suffered a random
> event you didn't like, you could restore a save game and try again. As
> the random event was generated during the interturn interface, it might
> not happen the second time round or be a different event or effect a
> different race.
>
> If MOO2 is generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, then putting
> it in a queue, I'm impressed. I 'dips me lid' to Simtex. We game
> players are lazy *and* dishonest. (Well, some of us are). We'll replay
> a turn to avoid a bad random event, but are we prepared to replay 8, 10
> or 12 turns just to avoid the unpleasantness?
>
> Nich
Hmmm... Well after logging more hours in MOO2, I've found that the AI is
a bit lacking, and I doubt that I'll be needing to cheat in any way. I
really whished they spruced up the AI more - but I guess that's what
multiplayer's for.
TAG
Mike Scandizzo
GUI TERENCE ANG wrote:
>
> >
> > Maybe they want to prevent cheating by saving the random events if you
> > restore a saved game. Yes, I consider it cheating if you restore a
> > saved game to avoid bad random events.
> >
>
> Probably not, since they game could go on indefinately and they'd have to
> store quite a number of random events.
>
> > Irwin
>
> TAG
Actually, that isn't true. It would be EASY to store all the random
events as follows: When you start a new game, pick some random number.
This is your randomizing seed. This seed would be much like the one you
give a computer Ma'jung game to create a unique, yet reproducible,
psuedo-random set up of the game tiles.
The game then uses this seed in a deterministic mathematical formula to
determine whether a random event occurs, and which one. In addition,
this formula produces a new seed, which is used on the following year.
This is in fact how programs create random numbers in programs, except
most people use the clock time for their initial seed, and the users
choices can change the number of times this seed is put through the
formula. In this case, we have a special seed that is ONLY used for
random events.
A save game would then only need to save the randomizing seed that is
associated with that year in order to ALWAYS produce the same events no
matter how many times you reload the game. And all you would need to
store in the save game is a simple integer.
I know, I know. "Ah, shut up!"
mike scandizzo
mi...@ictv.com
T Green
TAG= mailto:e0fq...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca (TERENCE ANG GUI)
IPC= mailto:pyc...@unity.ncsu.edu (Irwin Pui-Yin Choy)
====
IPC> Yes, I consider it cheating if you restore a saved game to avoid
IPC> bad random events.
Even if the "bad random event" was a system crash? ;P
TAG> Or, all the random events are determined at the start of each
TAG> game ...
Assuming they kept the same "Random Events" algorithm as MoO:
1) The timing is set.
2) The order of events is set.
3) The effected player can vary.
Just dropping back and replaying somesuch number of turns did not
matter; but by varying your total production on the prior turn, you
can almost always arrange to duck or (if you had 5+ systems) to
intercept an event.
<<tg>>
James Winsor
dle...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (David Leary) wrote:
>BTW, has anyone noticed that the Sakkra seem to be a major player in the
>new MOO2 universe? They regularly crush such old computer-player winners
>as the Klackons and Sillicoids, and do a nice job of making mincemeat out
>of me half the time.
My first game on Average was like that; the Sakkras were the galactic
superpower and the Klackons also-rans.
HOWEVER, the Hard game I just completed was the exact opposite! The
Sakkras were powerful for awhile, sharing dominence with the
Silicoids. But then, while I was busy crushing my neighbors the
Silicoids (who were techologically wimpy, it turns out), the Klackons
came out of nowhere and smushed the Sakkras, as well as the Humans,
Meklars AND Psilons! They controlled near a third of the galaxy.
And then, while I was still mopping up the Silicoids, the Klackons
took Orion!!! Gasp! Not were those bugs big, but smart, too - I was in
the embarassing position of being light-years behind the KLACKONS in
tech! Oh the shame!
They then turned on me and darned near whiped me out. What saved me
was that I had just researched Stellar Converter, and managed to build
some Titans with them, and barely held off his Death Ray armed fleet.
A very close and exciting game.
Jim
Jack Christensen
In message <32A1BE...@enter.net> - Nathan Eberhart
<natha...@enter.net>Sun, 01 Dec 1996 12:22:43 -0500 writes:
:>
:>Nicholas Hills wrote:
:>>
:>> GUI TERENCE ANG wrote:
:>> >
:>stuff snipped
:>> If MOO2 is generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, then putting
:>> it in a queue, I'm impressed. I 'dips me lid' to Simtex. We game
:>> players are lazy *and* dishonest. (Well, some of us are). We'll replay
:>> a turn to avoid a bad random event, but are we prepared to replay 8, 10
:>> or 12 turns just to avoid the unpleasantness?
:>>
:>> Nich
:>Same thoughts on generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, people
:>cheat too much in general. As far as events being truly random and not
:>hurting the person who is ahead, that is a good question. I have been
:>playing with another person over kali (win95 moo2 1.2 & kali 1.1b). We
:>are up to 130+ turns, I have had first the Antarans and then an Amoebae
:>attack my colonies. He hasn't had anything special attack him.
:>History charts show that I am ahead in population and he is ahead in
:>everything else. Getting suspicious random isn't truly "random".
:>Nate
In MOO1, according to the hint book, random events are modified by who's
ahead. It was designed to balance the game. As long as it doesn't favor
computer players, I see nothing wrong with this. Note that it does not auto do
this, it is more of a modifier to make it more likely, not impossible for
things not to go that way
Jack
--
Jack Christensen
Proverbs 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow;
for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.
Peter J. Stewart
Jack Christensen (j...@ibm.net) wrote:
: In MOO1, according to the hint book, random events are modified by who's
: ahead. It was designed to balance the game. As long as it doesn't favor
: computer players, I see nothing wrong with this. Note that it does not auto do
: this, it is more of a modifier to make it more likely, not impossible for
: things not to go that way
: Jack
The same strategy appears to be in MOO2 as well. I played my first game at the
easy level in order to get familiar with the game controls. I was ahead very
early in the game and the good random events were all happening to the CPs
that were behind and most of the bad ones to me.
Pete
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Stewart | "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"
ste...@bae.bellcore.com | - Salvor Hardin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robear
In article <vmonroeE...@netcom.com>, traker <vmo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>:Same sort of thing has happened to me on several occasions and I played
>:around with saves confirm, just as you did. Definition of "random"
>:certainly is in conflict with what we've both seen.
>
>
>--
>Another day in paradise...
>vmo...@netcom.com
Actually, this just sounds like the random seed is set at the beginning
of the game and not changed when you re-enter it. So if a particular
check occurs at a particular point in the game, it should be the same.
But it would have to be a pretty unsophisticated number roller not to
be time-sensitive, I guess...
David Pipes
Jasper Phillips
In article <580q5c$h...@uruguay.earthlink.net>,
James Winsor <jwi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>dle...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (David Leary) wrote:
>
>They then turned on me and darned near whiped me out. What saved me
>was that I had just researched Stellar Converter, and managed to build
>some Titans with them, and barely held off his Death Ray armed fleet.
>A very close and exciting game.
>
>Jim
I thought Stellar converters on ships weren't usefull in combat...
-Jasper
PS as an aside my favorite weapons so far are the neutron blaster
(esp. if you're telepathic), ion blaster (ignoring armor/structure
is too huge INHO), and the plasma cannon. The higher tech guns past
the plasma suck.
--
/\ Jasper Phillips (Pit Fiend) ______,....----,
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|==================="""""""""""" ___,..-'
`^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|======================----------""""""
\/ http://www.cs.orst.edu/~philljas/
GUI TERENCE ANG
On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Mike Scandizzo wrote:
I was dumbly thinking about physically storing all the random events -
stupid me. Yup, I get what you're saying, it's just that I wasn't
thinking along those lines - but it made sense once I switched to
programming thinking.
> mike scandizzo
TAG
Michael James Dean
I'm pretty sure the random events are chosen at least one turn before
they happen. In the current game i'm playing, the antarans attacked
during a flux. Since my ships were far away defending my ever-expanding
border, I knew my fledgling colony was about to get it. It shames me to
admit, but i tried reloading the autosaved game. Sure enough, right on
schedule, the Antarans attacked, headed for the same colony.
just thought i'd share,
Dean
Brian Meier
In multi-player games, does the computer try to distribute bad
events randomly? I was laughing as my friend/opponenets system was
caught in a space flux near start of game for 20 turns so couldn't
finish colony ship and people were starving, but right after flux
ended for him, the next turn a space amoeba launched itself towards
my home planet.
Matty
Michael James Dean wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure the random events are chosen at least one turn before
> they happen. In the current game i'm playing, the antarans attacked
> during a flux. Since my ships were far away defending my ever-expanding
> border, I knew my fledgling colony was about to get it. It shames me to
> admit, but i tried reloading the autosaved game. Sure enough, right on
> schedule, the Antarans attacked, headed for the same colony.
>
Maybe it's my personality, but why do the Antarans always attack me?
Am I that good? Also, I dread seeing the "GNN" report screen, 'cause
I know it means one of my colonies has become "mineral poor" or
"caught in a time anomoly" (are these things that common in the future?
I'm almost glad I won't live to see it). If the GNN report isn't
about me, it's about one of the computer players recieving "2000 BC"
or finding a extra technology! Maybe I'm paranoid...
matt r
Afterburner
Nathan Eberhart <natha...@enter.net> wrote:
>Same thoughts on generating a random event 8-10 turns in advance, people
>cheat too much in general. As far as events being truly random and not
>hurting the person who is ahead, that is a good question. I have been
>playing with another person over kali (win95 moo2 1.2 & kali 1.1b). We
>are up to 130+ turns, I have had first the Antarans and then an Amoebae
>attack my colonies. He hasn't had anything special attack him.
>History charts show that I am ahead in population and he is ahead in
>everything else. Getting suspicious random isn't truly "random".
I seem to recall that, according to the strat guide for the original
MOO, random events weren't really random. The "random" occurences
favored the losing races and hampered the winning races. So if you
were way ahead, good stuff would (most likely) happen to the computer
players, while bad stuff would (most likely) happen to you.
AB
beow...@aol.com
In article <32A5C5...@cybercomm.net>, Matty <mo...@cybercomm.net>
writes:
>Maybe it's my personality, but why do the Antarans always attack me?
>Am I that good?
I believe that the Antarans _ALWAYS_ attack the strongest player in the
game. I'm not sure which statistic is used to determine this relative
strength, be it Population, Production, Buildings, or the overall rating.
I have played a couple of games where the Sakkras jump to a quick start,
leading all other races. When the Antaran attacks begin, they have
_ALWAYS_ attacked the Sakkras. Only when I've usurped the Sakkras'
position atop the history graph do the Antarans turn their attention to
me.
Very respectfully,
Beowulf92
"If that fellow wants a fight, we won't disappoint him." Captain Isaac
Hull, U.S.S. Constitution, 1811.
David Magnuson
The Antarans have a percentage chance of attacking a race based roughly
on their population. Therefore, the larger your population, the more
chance you have of being the Antarans target.
Dean
In article <582eqd$m...@engr.orst.edu>, thus spake phil...@nb.ENGR.ORST.EDU:
>
>In article <580q5c$h...@uruguay.earthlink.net>,
>James Winsor <jwi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>dle...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu (David Leary) wrote:
>>
>>They then turned on me and darned near whiped me out. What saved me
>>was that I had just researched Stellar Converter, and managed to build
>>some Titans with them, and barely held off his Death Ray armed fleet.
>>A very close and exciting game.
>>
>>Jim
>
>I thought Stellar converters on ships weren't usefull in combat...
>
>-Jasper
>
Oh, Lord, Jasper...put one of those puppies on a Battlewagon and go nuts! Not
many ships survive 1000+ damage...
--
Dean Robb (WB: Raz1)
PC-Easy
On-site Computer Services
(757) 495-EASY [3279]
Doug Jacobs
Dean (pce...@norfolk.infi.net) wrote:
: Oh, Lord, Jasper...put one of those puppies on a Battlewagon and go nuts! Not
: many ships survive 1000+ damage...
...or planets for that matter. Shields are futile...you will blow all their
defenses away with 1 shot.
3 shots seem to be insta-death for _any_ ship, even a doomstar. (granted,
that's a _lot_ of space...) 2 will at least knock down the shields and
armor guaranteed (even at ultra-high tech).
T Green
B= mailto:beow...@aol.com (beowulf)
M= mailto:mo...@cybercomm.net (Matty)
===
M >Maybe it's my personality, but why do the Antarans always attack me?
M >Am I that good?
B> I believe that the Antarans _ALWAYS_ attack the strongest player in
the
B> game. I'm not sure which statistic is used to determine this
relative
B> strength, be it Population, Production, Buildings, or the overall
rating.
Nobody's said anything, so I suspect MOO2 handles random events
(including
Antaran invasions) the same as MOO:
1) A pseudo-random sequence controls the selection and timing of events.
2) Only players (CP or human) with 5+ colonies are eligible for events.
3) The same pseudo-random sequence controls the assignment of an event
to a player based upon the _square_ of his production in the prior
turn.
4) Good/Bad events "seek" players who had low/high production.
Re-playing of a turn will see the same event each time. Moreover, if
the "prior turn" is not re-played with an altered production level, the
event will be assigned to the same player each time, too.
<<tg>>
Fuwah Chez
On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:38:36 -0500, T Green <tgr...@gte.net> wrote:
>2) Only players (CP or human) with 5+ colonies are eligible for events.
There must exist a qualifier for this point. I usually play in small
galaxies, and I suspect this may happen with smaller empires.
Fuwah Chez
MESS Elder.
DNRC Minister of Population Mis^H^H^Hinformation.
Joe
> Is this how the game runs? I'm guessing that random events are generated
> many turns beforehand, and they simply stick some kind of countdown timer
> getting stuck with random events - as long as they're exactly that -
> RANDOM. I'd hate to think that the game was out to get me just because
> I'm ahead in the game - seems like a cheap way to bog my race down.
I don't want to get overly pedantic here, however nothing on a computer
is ever truly random. What programmers do is generated a sequence of
'apparently random' numbers based on some initial number. How and when
you gather that initial number can have a very great affect on 'apparent
randomness' because the same initial number always leads to the same
sequence of apparently random numbers. For instance, if you start with
'4' your will always end up with '9' followed by '13' followed by '2'
or some such...
The point is, I don't know when MOOII gathers that initial number. It
could very well be at the beginning of the game only. This would lead
to a very deterministic sequence for each game, discounting whatever
non-determinism the player introduces into the game itself by inter
acting with it...
Joe.
p.s. the initial number is often the number of seconds that have passed
so far today or some such...
Jn141414
I believe I have discovered when the random events are generated. While
playing a recent game, I was framed (happens too often!!). The stardate
was something like 3577.1 When restoring any games from 3577.x or
3576.x, I was still framed. However, when I restored from 3575.9, the
framing never happens. So basically, it appears you have to go back 2
"years" to change the history of the game.
NecroGuy55
This brings up another question that I wish to ask the other assorted game
gurus of MOOII. I finished a game awhile ago today (before I got online).
This particular game was the 9th game in a row that I have received Fusion
beam from an ancient space vessel. Seriously, the 9th! game! I wouldn't
mind it so much, but this is (IMHO) such a crappy tech that I don't even
want. Anyone have an explanation to this. Oh, by the way, in one of those
nine games I got both fusion beam and class 1 shield.
Thanks for any explanation.
Nathaniel Perez
aka Necroguy55, aka Orclord.
"....there is no point in driving yourself mad trying to stop yourself going mad. You might just as well give in and save your sanity for later." Ford Prefect- Life, the Universe, and Everything.
DarkKnight
GAME CHEAT! Don't read further if you are afraid of caving in and using it in a moment of
desperation!!!
**** See below ****
Actually the random number is generated at the start of the game when generating the star system.
This base number is then used throughout the game. Random numbers are used for a great number of
events, such as asking a race to do something diplomatically, bad/good events happening, etc. To
test this, wait until you have something happen to you the turn after you save the game. Reload
the save game, go to any race that is willing to trade tech with you, say no when they offer some
worthless piece of tech, and then go to the next turn. See, nothing happens (or at least
something different happens). Remember that this is cheating though...
Craig Wood
Thanks DarkKnight - now we can once again use the "save & reload"
cheats. Now maybe I can win Impossible !
Muhahahhahaha !
Craig