attacking cities in Civ2
Roman Ginis
Hiya Civ2 players,
I've been playing Civ2 for a month now and I wonder if any of you can
comment on the following thought:
Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
cheat mode just to experiment with this and found that it takes about 30
cavalry to take that city and that only if they all attack in one turn.
Although by the time I get to the point in the game when I and my
opponents have the riflemen and cavalry my production city puts out about
40 shields (substructing all the shields necessary to maintain the units),
it seems to me that under Democracy it becomes way too difficult to take
such city. Look, I usually get the Shakespear's theater wonder for
production city, to make everyone content so that I CAN field an army of
30 cavalry, but doing it from one city drains the shield resources for
support, even if I get the Smith Trading Co. to take care of the
improvements! The alternative under Democracy is to have each city field
1 or max. 2 units (or they rebel) and make the army from 15 cities, but
please that is too painful!!! Just getting all those units across the
oceans forces me to make 100s of mouse clicks!
Now, if I were staging a large war then I'd switch to Fundamentalism and
expect all the economy to work for military, but what if I just want to
destroy a tiny empire that keeps stealing my technology (with diplomats) -
is changing the regime the only way? I think Microprose made Democracy
too handicaped in the military respect, unless I am doing something very
wrong.
Please comment on this. I'd appreciate any polite reply.
-Roman
E-MAIL TO THE ADDRESS BELOW:
MEAN...@paonline.com
In article <566k14$a...@copland.udel.edu>, bai...@copland.udel.edu (Juris Baidins) wrote:
>In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.961110164945.12502B-100000@chaplin>,
>Roman Ginis <gi...@cs.uri.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I've been playing Civ2 for a month now and I wonder if any of you can
>>comment on the following thought:
>>
>>Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
>>with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
>>cheat mode just to experiment with this and found that it takes about 30
>>cavalry to take that city and that only if they all attack in one turn.
>
>
>what they get. In the era the rifleman and cavalry represent, entrenched
>infantry became very tough and cavalry was seldom used to attack infantry
>from horseback.
>
>Two alternative strategies:
>
>1) The point here is to head for the machine tools advance which gives the
>cannon (10-1-1). This wonderful unit allows offensives against walled
>cities and costs less than cavalry, provided you build a railroad up
>against the city to be attacked. Just be prepared to have a lot of
>artillery, just not 30 of them (say 10-15)
>
>2) Lots of diplomats (1 cavalry is about the same as 3 diplomats) to
>sabotage the target city.
>
>3) Switch to producing cash and buy it.
Although I hated to do it, I went out and modified both cannon and artillery
to give them "ignore city walls". I think this has balanced the game and made
it more realistic both for myself and the AI. I kept thinking about Fort
Sumpter and how those cannons in Charleston brought the fort to its knees by
throwing in volley after volley so even though I wanted to keep the game as
close as possible to the original, I did make these modifications. Now, if I
have a few cannon along, I can assault cities more easily and it also helps
the AI do the same which means I have to be on my guard if any cannon are in
the vicinity. I also applied the Facist patch and picked up 5 new units which
was rather cool but the changes I made to both cannon and artillery did
improve the game in my view.
MEANDEAN
Juris Baidins
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.961110164945.12502B-100000@chaplin>,
Roman Ginis <gi...@cs.uri.edu> wrote:
>
>I've been playing Civ2 for a month now and I wonder if any of you can
>comment on the following thought:
>
>Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
>with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
>cheat mode just to experiment with this and found that it takes about 30
>cavalry to take that city and that only if they all attack in one turn.
Anyone who attacks riflemen in a walled city with cavalry only deserves
what they get. In the era the rifleman and cavalry represent, entrenched
infantry became very tough and cavalry was seldom used to attack infantry
from horseback.
Two alternative strategies:
1) The point here is to head for the machine tools advance which gives the
cannon (10-1-1). This wonderful unit allows offensives against walled
cities and costs less than cavalry, provided you build a railroad up
against the city to be attacked. Just be prepared to have a lot of
artillery, just not 30 of them (say 10-15)
2) Lots of diplomats (1 cavalry is about the same as 3 diplomats) to
sabotage the target city.
3) Switch to producing cash and buy it.
--
Juris Baidins
bai...@udel.edu
Anthony Anderson
> From: Roman Ginis <gi...@cs.uri.edu>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic
> Subject: attacking cities in Civ2
> Date: Sunday, November 10, 1996 2:12 PM
---------------
Roman wrote:
Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city with
walls is a little too hard?
---------------
Use diplomats/spies for industrial sabotage to take out the walls first.
It might take a few, but not as many units as you would lose in a head-on
attack.
Roman wrote:
Look, I usually get the Shakespear's theater wonder for production city, to
make everyone content so that I CAN field an army of 30 cavalry, but doing
it from one city drains the shield resources for
support
---------------
I do the same thing, i.e., make one city the support city, well defended,
with water access and the Shakespere's theater. However, I do not have
this city produce the units. For that, I have adjacent cities that produce
land/air/missles and another for ships. The first thing a production city
does is move the unit to the Support city, hit the 'H' key to make this the
new home city, and send the unit off to war. Furthermore, I have food
caravans supply ALL the food for the support city. Engineers convert all
of its terrain to mined hills (mined hill=3 shields, 4 shields with
railroad; 20 squares X 4 shields = 80 shields/turn). With a Factory,
Manufacturing & solar plant, the support city can support two hundred units
(5/2 * 80 =200).
About food caravans: A city with a food deficit will never suffer lost
population as long as there is food in the storage bin, even if the deficit
exceeds the storage. One food grain is all it takes. Once the food is
gone, people will start dying on the following turn. If a food caravan is
delivered every time the food storage is empty, this will delay "food
deficiency deaths" for another one or more turns.
A food caravan will deliver food to fill half the storage bin normally, but
less than half when city is in food deficit (haven't figured it out
exactly, yet). So, depending on the city size, which determines the amount
of food delivered, and the size of food deficit, the city can last one or
more turns before another food caravan must arrive.
By having only one city supply the food caravans, you won't have to give up
precious trade routes to supply food. Since my support city requires a
food caravan every turn, and my food caravan supplier is a small pissant
city, I have other cities build food caravans and send them to the pissant
city. Clicking on a food caravan while in the pissant city's production
window, select "support from this city" to make the pissant city the home
city (changing home city can't normally be done for caravans, but this
method gets around it). Hence, only one city supplying only one food
route, with a bountiful supply of converted food caravans from other
cities, can supply food to a size 127 city (maximum city size allowed).
[How to get a city up to size 127? Send two food caravans per turn to fill
up the food storage bin; send three if city is in food deficit. Once the
bin is full, another citizen is added the following turn, even though the
city has a huge deficit. Keep doing this until size 127 is reached. Then,
send one food caravan per turn to sustain the population.]
------------------
Roman wrote:
Now, if I were staging a large war then I'd switch to Fundamentalism and
expect all the economy to work for military, but what if I just want to
destroy a tiny empire that keeps stealing my technology (with diplomats) -
-------------------
Put up a "diplomatic" wall. By placing diplomats/spies in an unbreakable
line along your borders, no enemy diplomats/spies can get in. (Since
diplomats require no upkeep and cause no unhappiness in Democracy, they are
ideal for the job). Place them in pairs if chance of being "deported" by
enemy units. Also, placing diplomats in your cities reduces the chance of
theft (see "Counterespionage" on page 111 of the Civ2 Instruction manual).
Diplomats reduce the chance of theft 20%, spies 40%, and veteran spies 60%.
Anthony
the joker
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 MEAN...@paonline.com wrote:
> >>I've been playing Civ2 for a month now and I wonder if any of you can
> >>comment on the following thought:
> >>
> >>Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
> >>with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
> >>cheat mode just to experiment with this and found that it takes about 30
> >>cavalry to take that city and that only if they all attack in one turn.
> >
> >
> >Anyone who attacks riflemen in a walled city with cavalry only deserves
> >what they get. In the era the rifleman and cavalry represent, entrenched
--krap kut--
> Although I hated to do it, I went out and modified both cannon and artillery
> to give them "ignore city walls". I think this has balanced the game and made
> it more realistic both for myself and the AI. I kept thinking about Fort
--krap kut--
> the vicinity. I also applied the Facist patch and picked up 5 new units which
> was rather cool but the changes I made to both cannon and artillery did
> improve the game in my view.
-------------
try:
if your civ. is weak in sci. and size. money etc...
if you want to take over a city with
lots of good defenders
behind city walls.
and this city produces lots of shields.
(comp. player needs less shields to produce anything.
use diplomat/spy to investigate city and you'll
see that the production box has been compressed)
try producing lots of cheap units and fortify them around
all squares of enimy city. e.g., worriors.
of course your enimy will attack them.
so...send them all at once.
this weeeeeeds that city out of production
such that they can no longer support
those many units.
but remember that the computer cheats
so there will always be one unit
in that city even if there is no production.
in the old civ
i was able to weed an enimy city to death
that is reduce it to a population
of one, then to nothing and the city dissappears
note: when the city is reduced to two you can
buy it real cheap. but you knew that already. right?
-----
second, if again you are low in tech and money
try:
build lots of diplomats.
you do have 'WRITING'? right?
send them all at once such that
they can all hit that city
at once next turn.
assuming the city is big
and kept happy by temples,
collicium (or something), and
cathedrals.
use your diplomats to
do 'INDUSTRIAL SABOTOGE'
until the temple etc...
are all gone.
remember to keep those diplomats
rolling.
wait till the next turn.
the city is now
on sale for half price!
civil disorder! ;)
Justin T. Ballard
In a previous article, gi...@cs.uri.edu (Roman Ginis) says:
>
>Hiya Civ2 players,
>
>I've been playing Civ2 for a month now and I wonder if any of you can
>comment on the following thought:
>
>Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
>with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
>cheat mode just to experiment with this and found that it takes about 30
>cavalry to take that city and that only if they all attack in one turn.
>Although by the time I get to the point in the game when I and my
>opponents have the riflemen and cavalry my production city puts out about
>40 shields (substructing all the shields necessary to maintain the units),
>it seems to me that under Democracy it becomes way too difficult to take
>such city. Look, I usually get the Shakespear's theater wonder for
>production city, to make everyone content so that I CAN field an army of
>30 cavalry, but doing it from one city drains the shield resources for
>support, even if I get the Smith Trading Co. to take care of the
>improvements! The alternative under Democracy is to have each city field
>1 or max. 2 units (or they rebel) and make the army from 15 cities, but
>please that is too painful!!! Just getting all those units across the
>oceans forces me to make 100s of mouse clicks!
>
>Now, if I were staging a large war then I'd switch to Fundamentalism and
>expect all the economy to work for military, but what if I just want to
>destroy a tiny empire that keeps stealing my technology (with diplomats) -
>is changing the regime the only way? I think Microprose made Democracy
>too handicaped in the military respect, unless I am doing something very
>wrong.
>
>Please comment on this. I'd appreciate any polite reply.
>
>
>-Roman
>
>
>E-MAIL TO THE ADDRESS BELOW:
>
>gi...@cs.uri.edu
>
>
>
Well I'll probably be called a wimp since I don't play at the harder
levels but I have my system for taking cities. The key is to get units
with high attack #s. They have low defense so you have to be careful
that they don't get attacked before they attack:-). But those will
help. I will often soften up a city with destroyers or aircraft before
taking it. Of course I don't really start to conquer until I have
paratroopers and Helicopters. Now those are nasty! Just dropping the
little suckers all over the board and the helicopters you can just
send out to conquer anything. The big things is to understand how
the computer computes the attacks and maximize your side for attacking.
:-)
--
Justin Ballard E-Mail: jt...@po.cwru.edu
3873 West 37th Street Phone#: (216)351-5402
Cleveland, OH 44109
Michael Huemer
Roman Ginis <gi...@cs.uri.edu> writes:
>Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
>with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
Actually, I liked this part of civ2, because I'm more of a defensive
player. I thought it was way to easy to take over cities in civ1.
>cheat mode just to experiment with this and found that it takes about 30
>cavalry to take that city and that only if they all attack in one turn.
...
>improvements! The alternative under Democracy is to have each city field
>1 or max. 2 units (or they rebel) and make the army from 15 cities, but
>please that is too painful!!! Just getting all those units across the
>oceans forces me to make 100s of mouse clicks!
Use the keypad instead of the mouse.
Anyway, of course the answer is that you need better attack units.
Don't bother attacking until you have superior military technology,
and use the unit with the highest attack strength (like a catapult
rather than cavalry -- only you wouldn't use either of those against
riflemen). For riflemen, you need some artillery.
If you're in democracy, you might want to try inciting revolts.
--
^-----^
Michael Huemer <o...@rci.rutgers.edu> / O O \
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~owl | V |
\ /
Mythar
In article <56vlu6$o...@amenti.rutgers.edu>,
Michael Huemer <o...@rci.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>Roman Ginis <gi...@cs.uri.edu> writes:
>
>>Don't you think that taking a city with 4 riflemen fortified in a city
>>with walls is a little too hard? I created a city and different units in
>Anyway, of course the answer is that you need better attack units.
>Don't bother attacking until you have superior military technology,
>and use the unit with the highest attack strength (like a catapult
>rather than cavalry -- only you wouldn't use either of those against
>riflemen). For riflemen, you need some artillery.
i was involved in a tough battle against a civ of about equal strength.
but, when i finally got to one of his cities, i found them all walled up,
and i couldn't even take ONE with my entire army.
so, i formulated two strategies: 1. i would send in pairs of
defensive-offensive units to seige the city, so that the offensive unit
(catapult early, cavalry later) would be less vulnerable to
counter-attack--it would be protected by a pikeman, musketeer, rifleman,
or alpine troop. yet, i would STILL be going in against a unit protected
by a city wall. so, i tried 2. i would send in a team of diplomats or
spies to blow up the city walls. since diplomats attacked a random
structure, and since they could move 2 spaces, i usually had about 6
diplomats ready 2 spaces away while i moved my other unit pairs into
position. i usually had to blow up quite a bit of the city before the city
walls came down, but i would then only have to deal with fortified units.
i started blowing him away pretty quickly. by the time i got the spy, i
seem to have fallen behind in techs, so i usually sent in spies to blow up
the city walls, barracks, production, and steal a bunch of technologies.
i wonder how this strategy affected my diplomacy, though.. the rest of my
neighbors seem to hate my guts, although a few of them probably hated my
guts anyways. any thoughts? i'm a relative newbie to the game.
m
--
\
fi...@rahul.net / Invisible
\