Tzar: Convince me I made a mistake
Jason Lutes
I returned the game the day after I bought it because I found it
feature-poor and quite inferior to AoK, which is my new standard for
RTS. I really want a good fantasy-themed RTS, but I thought Tzar was a
weak attempt. Maybe I just didn't give it enough time. Those of you that
have played the game for awhile now, I'd be interested in hearing what
you're continuing to like about it and what good things you've
encountered the more you play. Convince me I was too quick to judge!
Thanks...
Falsadoom
"Jason Lutes" <jlu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:38DD4E8E...@earthlink.net...
Farms are permanent unless destroyed by armys. That's a plus right there.
;-) It's got an entirely different flow (AI holds units back then rushes in
mass which is better than trickling attacks. They also will try and hunt
your peasants down. The computer executes amphibious assaults well too). I
think AOK is a way better game, Tzar is good too. The warcraft feel with AOK
elements is kinda fun. The items assigned to hereos can make a difference as
well (and something to learn). I am finding it rather difficult to defend
and aquire territory to exploit. It's making me do new things and relearn
some things specific to Tzar. This means I can't leap in kicking ass without
mastering skills and learning the game. That makes the game worth playing in
my book, simply that it makes me adapt in a new way with a familiar
interface. Graphics are good, sound is great, and I am finding myself
loading it up which speaks for itself.
Falsa
Dario
keeps being harder on every next mission. Story is OK and it's very good
integrated in gameplay.
OK, maybe it's not the best but it's worth of money I spent on it.
-
Mark Hanson
thrown in the mix.
Tzar is a fun game (IMHO). Not a revolutionary game.
The large selection of buildings is cool.
I have only played the first few tutorials so far. I do like the fact that
you can domesticate animals (cows) and get a huge increase in food for that.
The villager AI seems adequate.
Fields don't run out of food.
Technology can give you actual changes to the way your units operate (such
as gaining experience).
Forests can actually be traveled through instead of operating as a barrier.
Peasants can convert an enemy building. This takes time and the level of
success depends upon how far the building is away from enemy outposts as
compared to your own.
As it is not instant the opponent has time to stop this from happening.
As I complete each tutorial I am looking forward to what the next will have
in store for me:)
Not every game will apeal to every person. Nothing wrong with not enjoying
a game, just find one you do:)
Markus
Dumbo
"Falsadoom" <fals...@home.com> wrote in message
news:bocD4.14264$x65.9...@news1.rdc2.tx.home.com...
>
> "Jason Lutes" <jlu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:38DD4E8E...@earthlink.net...
> > A request to all you Tzar-lovers:
> >
> > I returned the game the day after I bought it because I found it
> > feature-poor and quite inferior to AoK, which is my new standard for
> > RTS. I really want a good fantasy-themed RTS, but I thought Tzar was a
> > weak attempt. Maybe I just didn't give it enough time. Those of you that
> > have played the game for awhile now, I'd be interested in hearing what
> > you're continuing to like about it and what good things you've
> > encountered the more you play. Convince me I was too quick to judge!
> >
> > Thanks...
>
there.
> ;-) It's got an entirely different flow (AI holds units back then rushes
in
> mass which is better than trickling attacks. They also will try and hunt
> your peasants down. The computer executes amphibious assaults well too). I
> think AOK is a way better game, Tzar is good too. The warcraft feel with
AOK
> elements is kinda fun. The items assigned to hereos can make a difference
as
> well (and something to learn). I am finding it rather difficult to defend
> and aquire territory to exploit. It's making me do new things and relearn
> some things specific to Tzar. This means I can't leap in kicking ass
without
> mastering skills and learning the game. That makes the game worth playing
in
> my book, simply that it makes me adapt in a new way with a familiar
> interface. Graphics are good, sound is great, and I am finding myself
> loading it up which speaks for itself.
>
> Falsa
I dunno, maybe it isnt for you. I cant get enough of it. The only feature
AOK has over it is the marvellous formation march which appears missing from
Tzar. Why play it? The sight of 80 ninjas working out practicing on dummies
being taught by the martial arts priests should be enough for anyone :) Gawd
the aisan tech tree is awesome.
Although I continue to gush about Tzar I have to wonder about how viable
full tech tree multiplayer games are. Wizards can summon creatures for free
(just a long delay between castings) which may well prove to be unbalancing.
In one skirmish game I had a battery of ten wizards pumping out my horde of
dragons which then laid waste to the entire map. 10 out of 10 for coolness
but I am not sure how well balanced that is.
Oh well back to the game :)
_dumbo
Caton
>
> Although I continue to gush about Tzar I have to wonder about how viable
> full tech tree multiplayer games are. Wizards can summon creatures for free
> (just a long delay between castings) which may well prove to be unbalancing.
> In one skirmish game I had a battery of ten wizards pumping out my horde of
> dragons which then laid waste to the entire map. 10 out of 10 for coolness
> but I am not sure how well balanced that is.
Actually, it costs upwards of 80 gold (depending on the creature) to summon the
top end creatures (dragon, golem, genie).
The trick, of course, is to make sure you've got shitloads of gold :)
Dragon hoardes *are* fairly effective, but once you factor in the cost of a
wizards tower and x wizards, plus the cost per dragon, they ought to be. I've
also found that batteries of longbowmen, and especially clusters of stone towers
can shred dragons at a reasonable rate.
It's a similar situation to Total Annihilation's Rapier hoardes... by the time
you've managed to get a lot of dragons, your opponent should've built up
something fairly impressive too. Also, as I've found out the hard way a few
times, it only takes a few well trained grunts getting in amongst your wizards
to put a serious dent in your summoning :)
--
Caton Little
Kathleen Chin and Joseph Zakszewski
My first impression was similar. But I was still having fun, and since I
only had the demo at the time, I wasn't under a pressure to make a quick
decision, so I kept playing the demo. The more I played, the more things I
found that I liked. And as I got further and further into the tech trees, I
found some features that are unique in RTS games, and will probably become
standard features in the future. Here is a partial list of what makes this a
GREAT game, inmho.
Units gain experience, and get better with every battle.
Being able to train units before they go into battle, so they are not cannon
fodder fed to the grinder.
Swarms of bats sweeping down to bloodily slaughter my enemies peons.
Kung Fu Priests Training my peasants aka 'The Seven Samurai'
THE BEST AI EVER IN AN RTS!
An excellent economic model. Four resources, trade by land or by sea,
getting loans, gambling.
Hiring mercs and heroes
Finding Magic items. There is nothing so satisfying as a peasant who can
cast a 'Rain of Fire' on a mass of enemy troops, or to open a hole in the
enemies defenses.
Making magic items. ("My leige there seems to be a surplus of gold in the
treasury. For a small donation we could oufit your favorite hero with
weapons and armor of great power!")
Stone Golems spearheading a charge.
The GD AI landing another boatload of guys in an undefended stretch of my
coast!
Detailed unit bonuses and penalties. (And using them properly)
Great graphics.
Random Map generator.
Excellent map and campaign editor. (I put a summon bat book on one map,
and late in the game was nearly killed by a horde of bats that filled my
monitor. The Ai waited untill it had about 100 before it attacked, and took
out 20 veteran longbowmen and a half dozen priests.)
Technology tree that forces you to make decisions that have a lasting
impact. In most games you have to decide on one or two of the guilds. It is
very difficult to get more than that. The choice you make will mean very
different games. (In most mp AOK games, it seems that by the end of the
game, most players have most of the techs.)
Great sound effects. Battles, ambient sounds, deaths are excellent and
varied.
(The music is weak but who wants to hear the same music for all of the hours
they play a game)
No bad voice acting. But the engine supports voices, (the game is going to
so many countries the designers left it out) I am hoping for some cool add
ons
All in all, if you are not convinced, get the demo and spend some time. The
full version is a bit more polished (lots of the hot key commands work
better) This game has taken the best parts of Warcraft2, Age of Kings, and
Total Annihilation, and put it into one hell of a fun game!
Jason Lutes wrote in message <38DD4E8E...@earthlink.net>...
LShaping@...
BZZZT!
Looks like they have a decent marketing department too (or at least an
aggressive one).
LShaping
Falsadoom
"Mark Asher" <ma...@nospamcdmnet.com> wrote in message
news:af5H4.270$bZ5....@news1.primary.net...
[snip]
> It does sound good. I'll probably pick up a copy.
It's a good solid game, but tough as hell the first few games. This is one
where doing the missions are probably a good thing if you have trouble with
skirmish, until you learn the paths to winning.
Falsa
Markus
I would be interested in what you think about the game.
As has been suggested, there are not a lot (anything?) completely new in
this game.
It is one place that brings many of them together in one place in a very fun
package.
Markus
"Mark Asher" <ma...@nospamcdmnet.com> wrote in message
news:af5H4.270$bZ5....@news1.primary.net...
>
> Kathleen Chin and Joseph Zakszewski <chi...@mdc.net> wrote in message
> news:38ecb966@news...
> > Jason,
> >
> > My first impression was similar. But I was still having fun, and since I
> > only had the demo at the time, I wasn't under a pressure to make a quick
> > decision, so I kept playing the demo. The more I played, the more things
I
> > found that I liked. And as I got further and further into the tech
trees,
> I
> > found some features that are unique in RTS games, and will probably
become
> > standard features in the future. Here is a partial list of what makes
this
> a
> > GREAT game, inmho.
> >
> > Units gain experience, and get better with every battle.
>
> Been done in Warzone 2100.
>
> > Being able to train units before they go into battle, so they are not
> cannon
> > fodder fed to the grinder.
>
> Metal Fatigue will let you have your own units train one another. At least
I
> think that feature is in this game.
>
> > Swarms of bats sweeping down to bloodily slaughter my enemies peons.
>
> How is this different from an area-effect spell that is found in a lot of
> RTS games?
>
> > Kung Fu Priests Training my peasants aka 'The Seven Samurai'
> >
> > THE BEST AI EVER IN AN RTS!
> >
> > An excellent economic model. Four resources, trade by land or by sea,
> > getting loans, gambling.
>
> I'm not always a fan of multiple resources. To me resource collecting in
an
> RTS is only interesting in a strategic sense -- that is, ensuring that I
> have control of a large enough resource pipeline and that I can deny my
> opponent. I actually like TA: Kingdoms mana site model. You still have
> something to fight over, but it's simple enough that it never gets in the
> way of all the other micromanagement issues you have to deal with.
>
> > Hiring mercs and heroes
> >
> > Finding Magic items. There is nothing so satisfying as a peasant who
can
> > cast a 'Rain of Fire' on a mass of enemy troops, or to open a hole in
the
> > enemies defenses.
>
> There's another RTS, a Warcraft knockoff from Europe or Eastern Europe I
> think, that did this. I sure can't remember the name though.
>
> > Making magic items. ("My leige there seems to be a surplus of gold in
the
> > treasury. For a small donation we could oufit your favorite hero with
> > weapons and armor of great power!")
> >
> > Stone Golems spearheading a charge.
> >
> > The GD AI landing another boatload of guys in an undefended stretch of
my
> > coast!
> >
> > Detailed unit bonuses and penalties. (And using them properly)
> >
> > Great graphics.
> >
> > Random Map generator.
> >
> > Excellent map and campaign editor. (I put a summon bat book on one
map,
> > and late in the game was nearly killed by a horde of bats that filled my
> > monitor. The Ai waited untill it had about 100 before it attacked, and
> took
> > out 20 veteran longbowmen and a half dozen priests.)
> >
> > Technology tree that forces you to make decisions that have a lasting
> > impact. In most games you have to decide on one or two of the guilds. It
> is
> > very difficult to get more than that. The choice you make will mean
very
> > different games. (In most mp AOK games, it seems that by the end of the
> > game, most players have most of the techs.)
> >
> > Great sound effects. Battles, ambient sounds, deaths are excellent and
> > varied.
> > (The music is weak but who wants to hear the same music for all of the
> hours
> > they play a game)
> >
> > No bad voice acting. But the engine supports voices, (the game is going
to
> > so many countries the designers left it out) I am hoping for some cool
add
> > ons
> >
> >
> > All in all, if you are not convinced, get the demo and spend some time.
> The
> > full version is a bit more polished (lots of the hot key commands work
> > better) This game has taken the best parts of Warcraft2, Age of Kings,
and
> > Total Annihilation, and put it into one hell of a fun game!
>
Trade Agent
machine than the Microsoft behemoth. The discussion here is being fuelled
by RTS fans who have found a good product and more importantly a indepth
enjoyable game and want to develop a community of players inspite of the
massive hype of other games. It should not be about the best or biggest
Publishing company budget for marketing but about the quality of the Game.
Word of mouth may not be the most effective but it is if you believe in the
honesty and judgement of the person telling you about it, the most sincere.
Mark Asher: It is also not about having exclusive rights to a game idea. A
ferrari has a steering wheel like most other cars this does not stop it from
being a fine package even though it uses such a common mode of navigation.
It is about how it all meshes together and makes for your entertainment and
enjoyment.
BTW anyone who returns this game after one day doesn't have the depth to
play it well anyway so probably best that you did take it back. For those
who compare it to other games aand then say it doesn't have this or that
about it well I would say games are not meant to be identical and if TZAR is
different in some aspects you should try and find out why and then see if
the difference has an affect on your overall enjoyment of the game.
Caton
>
> Hey Mark,
>
> I would be interested in what you think about the game.
> As has been suggested, there are not a lot (anything?) completely new in
> this game.
> It is one place that brings many of them together in one place in a very fun
> package.
Well, technically, there are very few 'new' features these days... often, it
comes down to the implementation, rather than the idea per se. To me, the ones
the really work in Tzar are:
x Smart peasants
x Fields that don't run out
x Stat-enhancing items
x A challenging AI
x Unit experience
However, all of those things are secondary to the game's atmosphere. Comparing
both Tzar and AOK to All The Other RTS Games reveals that they are much more
similar than they are dissimilar. What sold me on Tzar was that it's the first
game I've come across that *feels* like Warcraft2 (and it took me *years* to get
tired of *that* game).
<IMHO>
AOE and AOE2 just didn't have the right feel to them. All the right bits were
there, but it felt a bit 'formal'... an RTS dressed up in a business suit.
Warcraft2 was very much an RTS dressed up like a rabid wargamer going to a
con... cheesy fantasy battle armour and all. Tzar carries on that tradition...
which is fine by me :)
</IMHO>
--
Caton Little
Jeffrey L. Cooper
Trade Agent
It is growing and gaining momentum. The community is building and the
retention rate is very high. This is not like AOK which inherited the AOE
and ROR communities. TZAR: "The Burden of the Crown". Is a new product 3
plus years in the development. Explore it you will find winning strategies
are many.
"Jeffrey L. Cooper" <java...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:eaeqes0iacnmog3hd...@4ax.com...
Jabba
does simulate better a battlefield , TZAR has atmosphere.It's like you are
in there,simply get caught in the story and enjoy playing.The comparation
with Warcraft is immediate.And that (as Caton said) is a good thing.
However:
-the units tend to move out of control in large battles.I did not play
Tzar in multiplayer yet, but I think I will never do that:after I get used
to see my troops carrying orders with acurracy, standing in formations as
ordered and obeying the stances I impose them, is hard to get 'back' to a
stage where I constantly have to scroll around the battlefield to search for
my essential 30 knights that are hunting an pour archer who bothered them,
while 'his' knights are devastating my village.
-the hot keys for troop selection don't work if you have another 'un-hot
keyed' troop selected, which is confusing.The troops get stretched hen
moving across even small portions of the map.
-there is no 'undo' or 'back' in the menu!This means that if you choose
to build a gate , and the cursor turns into a gate, then you have to, even
if you change your mind!You can't directly destroy your buildings (with DEL
for example), you have to atack them
-the gate AI is poor.You can't trust it.At some instances my gate looks like
a trampoline, opening and closing about 2 times per second, non-stop.
This being said, let's remember what the Latin said: 'non compare
dissimilia' - do not compare different things : although both AOK and TZAR
are RTS, the focus is on different things.I say : let AOK to be played in
multiplayer games, and TZAR in single player and you will get the best of
both.
And tonight will be the first Friday night (after some many months) when
instead playing an AOK with the office guys, I'll go home and play Tzar.
Regards,
Jabba.
Caton <ca...@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message
news:38ED1111...@netwin.co.nz...
mark...@my-deja.com
In article <8ck8ie$v3$1...@nebula.dnttm.ro>,
"Jabba" <mcj...@iname.com> wrote:
> -the units tend to move out of control in large battles.I did not
play
> Tzar in multiplayer yet, but I think I will never do that:after I get
used
> to see my troops carrying orders with acurracy, standing in
formations as
> ordered and obeying the stances I impose them, is hard to get 'back'
to a
> stage where I constantly have to scroll around the battlefield to
search for
> my essential 30 knights that are hunting an pour archer who bothered
them,
> while 'his' knights are devastating my village.
While Tzar does not have the AOK formations is does have a guard order
which works well. Order your knights to guard your archers and they
won't run half way across the map:)
> -the hot keys for troop selection don't work if you have
another 'un-hot
> keyed' troop selected, which is confusing.
I haven't noticed this myself but will have to check it out.
>The troops get stretched hen
> moving across even small portions of the map.
This can definately be annoying. I wish they had it set so a group only
traveled as fast as the slowest unit.
> -there is no 'undo' or 'back' in the menu!This means that if you
choose
> to build a gate , and the cursor turns into a gate, then you have to,
even
> if you change your mind!
This can be done with the Esc key or a right click of the mouse button
will cancel what you are building but won't change the menu.
>You can't directly destroy your buildings (with DEL
> for example), you have to atack them
The Delete key on the keyboard does delete units or buildings. I am
not sure about the one on the number pad.
> -the gate AI is poor.You can't trust it.At some instances my gate
looks like
> a trampoline, opening and closing about 2 times per second, non-stop.
>
I have found the gate AI to be excellent. I have yet to have an enemy
unit come through an open gate. You can also shut it off if you prefer.
> This being said, let's remember what the Latin said: 'non compare
> dissimilia' - do not compare different things : although both AOK and
TZAR
> are RTS, the focus is on different things.I say : let AOK to be
played in
> multiplayer games, and TZAR in single player and you will get the
best of
> both.
> And tonight will be the first Friday night (after some many
months) when
> instead playing an AOK with the office guys, I'll go home and play
Tzar.
> Regards,
> Jabba.
I agree that both games have their place, however I would qualify it
differently.
I still play both although I prefer Tzar in Multiplayer games. I find
the ability to switch on and off sharing units, vision and resources
very nice.
I also love the fact that in most games you won't build more than one
or two Guilds. This gives a nice flavor to the game IMHO.
Markus
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
TG_Fordy
I would like to correct a couple of things to help you enjoy
Tzar a lot more..
If you want to undo or back just press the Esc key, it will take
you one step back.
To delete buildings it is the delete key.
I never use the al to control gates, just dont trust them...lol
You think that Tzar wont be any good as a multiplayer game and
that is a big mistake. Tzar has the best features of any
multiplayer game on the market. In team games you can have it so
your team mates can control your units and you can even share
your resources. It is so much better in a big battle to be able
to control all units instead of either waiting for your teammate
to move before using something real powerful like the rain of
fire spell.
For the Death Match fans Tzar has an unlimited resources setting
so you dont have to worry about running out of anything, just
build up and fight...
I have been an avid Aoe\RoR fan for a long time and I brought
AoK when it first come out but they now sit in the cd rack never
being used.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
LShaping@...
>Hi Caton..
><snip>
>You think that Tzar wont be any good as a multiplayer game and
>that is a big mistake. Tzar has the best features of any
>multiplayer game on the market. <snip>
Spectating? Well, almost the best.
:o)
LShaping
LShaping@...
>Lshaping: Get perspective. There is no greater or more aggressive marketing
>machine than the Microsoft behemoth. The discussion here is being fuelled
>by RTS fans who have found a good product and more importantly a indepth
>enjoyable game and want to develop a community of players inspite of the
>massive hype of other games. <snip>
Time will tell. Looks a little like more than one sales person is
involved in this thread.
C ya,
LShaping
mark...@my-deja.com
Hey,
Or could it just be possible that these are people who really enjoy the
game ;o)
Later
Kryptic Lizard
and 'this has been done before' threads is that Tzar is the first game to
really throw it all together in a functional way. IMHO Tzar is the best
implementation Ive seen of all these features in a tight framework.
KL
LShaping@...
>"Jabba" <mcj...@iname.com> wrote:
>>>>>>><snip>
>
>>The troops get stretched hen
>> moving across even small portions of the map.
>
>This can definately be annoying. I wish they had it set so a group only
>traveled as fast as the slowest unit. <snip>
>Markus
That is common with all games, isn't it?
LShaping
LShaping@...
>"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> "Trade Agent" <nos...@nspam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Lshaping: Get perspective. There is no greater or more aggressive marketing
>>>machine than the Microsoft behemoth. The discussion here is being fuelled
>>>by RTS fans who have found a good product and more importantly a indepth
>>>enjoyable game and want to develop a community of players inspite of the
>>>massive hype of other games. <snip>
>>
>> Time will tell. Looks a little like more than one sales person is
>> involved in this thread.
>> C ya,
>> LShaping
>
>Hey,
Ho,
>Or could it just be possible that these are people who really enjoy the
>game ;o)
>Later
>Markus
My guess is that some of them might enjoy selling the game. I would
not rush out and buy it. I would wait to see if the enthusiasm is
still there in a week or two, like when their boss is yelling at them.
:o)
Actually, if I wasn't so busy with flight simming at the moment, I
might look at their posting history. That is a fairly easy way (not
always easy) to figure that stuff out. One indicator would be if they
have few posts, devoted only to this subject. And yeah, of course you
might be right. But how else can you tell?
C ya,
LShaping
Markus
In my case though you would not find much of a posting history for me :-0
I kind of enjoy routing for the underdog and rarely post as I am one of
thosee people that figure someone else will bring up that same point:)
In this case, due to lack of marketing or some such reason, there has been
very little word available about this program.
I also have the naive idea that companies that come out with a good product
should be successful.
Then again, who knows in a couple of weeks the luster may wear thin (I doubt
it though:)).
There is a demo available. I would recommend trying demos whenever
possible.
Later,
Markus
"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:53oses8ehk5kook93...@4ax.com...
Markus
of course.
Currently the only way to do it in Tzar is to have one unit start walking
and set the rest to 'guard' that unit. Luckily this seems to be the default
action when right clicking on a unit (sets the units selected to guard that
unit or building).
Hopefully they can do something about that in a patch...
Markus
"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:036seso50p474t6t0...@4ax.com...
LShaping@...
>Not a bad way to tell most of the time:)
That's right. Unless you know of better. Advertising is guided by
profit, you wont find them identifying themselves unless they are
doing public relations.
>In my case though you would not find much of a posting history for me :-0
Uh oh. Of course, you can just change your handle again the next time
you promote something. That's why I look for a posting history.
Bye,
LShaping
>I kind of enjoy routing for the underdog and rarely post as I am one of
>thosee people that figure someone else will bring up that same point:)
>In this case, due to lack of marketing or some such reason, there has been
>very little word available about this program.
>I also have the naive idea that companies that come out with a good product
>should be successful.
>Then again, who knows in a couple of weeks the luster may wear thin (I doubt
>it though:)).
>There is a demo available. I would recommend trying demos whenever
>possible.
>
>Later,
>Markus
>"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
Kathleen Chin and Joseph Zakszewski
In my office (Bose) it is considered a joking insult to call someone part
of Marketing (unless they are in marketing).
Sorry to burst your bubble. I just like the game. A lot.
My boss yells at me when my sales people dont sell enough stereos.
GhengisRexx
LShaping@... wrote in message
<53oses8ehk5kook93...@4ax.com>...
Trade Agent
a back key.
Stand ground key.
Guard key.
A delete building Key
A Gate AI toggle and a lock/unlock gate key
You can also HotKey group your 30 Knights. You can also order them to
attack a particular type of Unit or Building.
Tzar does not have formations but then again you can play 4v4 with pops from
200 to 300 per player on a laggy connection without the Formation Pathing
chewing up the CPU and slowing it to a stutter fest. In many instances
formations are overrated anyway, tight formation is a splash damage target.
Flanking is usually ineffectual. Protecting square is so dynamic that your
weak units can soon become front line anyway. I want formations I just
don't want stutter and shuffle and slow performance as the cost.
Apples and Oranges. AOK do have similarities in Battle units tactics and
even strategies. However AOK does not have the magic, spawning, experience
and training of units, hi-colour graphics, place and forget 'farms' (fields
in TZAR farms are a building with tech upgrades.), a unit explore function,
smart peons ......etc
Tzar does not have the formations, Age system of Civ advancement, 256 colour
graphics, unit outlines (thanks heavens), peons shooting out of Town
centers, TC, etc....
Now comparisons can go on and on...thi shas that doesn't blah on
boring....if you want to be a true judge then get TZAR play it for a month
and learn the mid and end games in team play especially and you will then be
able to compare the two games....
I have played both for months and TZAR wins, although AOK is till taken for
a run now and then. They are both very good games...the sections of the
game that are similar are pretty even and down to preference but the fact
that TAR has whole new chapters added make the differences huge and that is
the Why i find it more enjoyable. TZAR is a Battle/Magic/RTS/RPG hybrid
giving me the best of all the worlds I want. You don't want the same things
...then great, variety is the spice of life.
Play both if you can but putting down one after playing for a week is just a
newbie loss. It is sad to see people running down a good game because they
haven't learnt it properly and are ignorant of what is actually there or
not.
"Enjoy it whilst it is still friendly"
"Markus" <mar...@flashemail.net> wrote in message
news:38ee6d68$0$42...@news.solutionsgroup.net...
> Most all of the games I have seen in the last year have had that as a
matter
> of course.
> Currently the only way to do it in Tzar is to have one unit start walking
> and set the rest to 'guard' that unit. Luckily this seems to be the
default
> action when right clicking on a unit (sets the units selected to guard
that
> unit or building).
> Hopefully they can do something about that in a patch...
>
> Markus
>
> "LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
Trade Agent
I want TZAR to succeed because I want to play it. I want to play it
multiplayer against lots of opponents good bad but not ugly :).
L saping can be as cynical as he likes about our motivation heck he could be
right about some but not me. The main issue is are we posting sales hype
crap or truths...I don't think anyone here has fallen into ADblurb lingo..
Maybe fanblurb...what got me posting was that people were being factually
incorrect saying TZAR doesn't have this or can't do that...
After the flood of titles that hit the market we are all a bit jaded or
sceptical in the RTS genre... But TZAR has a purpose built and good engine(3
plus years in development), that handles lag well and the most important
thing to me is that the Development team patch their errors and improve
their product with the patchs. This is not just a old engine with new
graphics pottered out by 5 guys in a garage. It is quality work that turned
out FUN baseline.
I don't want to wait for a patch for this game after they release their next
game....which I had to do with ROR.
Trade Agent
I wouldn't take it so I don't give it to anyone working for me.
"Kathleen Chin and Joseph Zakszewski" <chi...@mdc.net> wrote in message
news:38eeb307@news...
Sea_Witch
publicised... promoted... hyped.... ever.
Because of which it's already selling cheap here (UK) and a bargain it is
too:)
Just because ppl like a game they must be selling it like just because they
post to more than one ng they must be spamming. It's not always wise to
presume you *know* everything when it's so obviously not the case.
Sea_Witch
LShaping@... <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:0svseso7ctu0cq27n...@4ax.com...
> "Markus" <mar...@flashemail.net> wrote:
>
> >Not a bad way to tell most of the time:)
>
> That's right. Unless you know of better. Advertising is guided by
> profit, you wont find them identifying themselves unless they are
> doing public relations.
>
> >In my case though you would not find much of a posting history for me :-0
>
> Uh oh. Of course, you can just change your handle again the next time
> you promote something. That's why I look for a posting history.
> Bye,
> LShaping
>
>
> >I kind of enjoy routing for the underdog and rarely post as I am one of
> >thosee people that figure someone else will bring up that same point:)
> >In this case, due to lack of marketing or some such reason, there has
been
> >very little word available about this program.
> >I also have the naive idea that companies that come out with a good
product
> >should be successful.
> >Then again, who knows in a couple of weeks the luster may wear thin (I
doubt
> >it though:)).
> >There is a demo available. I would recommend trying demos whenever
> >possible.
> >
> >Later,
> >Markus
> >"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >news:53oses8ehk5kook93...@4ax.com...
LShaping@...
>Actually they have a crap marketing department this game is one of the least
>publicised... promoted... hyped.... ever.
>Because of which it's already selling cheap here (UK) and a bargain it is
>too:)
>Just because ppl like a game they must be selling it like just because they
>post to more than one ng they must be spamming. It's not always wise to
>presume you know everything when it's so obviously not the case.
>Sea_Witch
Listen dear, I didn't suggest that I know everything. I just want to
know whether the enthusiasm is partly based on advertising. Don't
bend your broom out of shape.
We shall see,
LShaping
Markus
not regular posters to usenet.
Personally I find it rather insulting to be dismissed out of hand just
because I am not a regular poster.
This is especially insulting to people (such as myself) who really believe
the game is an improvement over all the other RTS's out there.
All I ask is that you give it a fair chance rather than dismissing it
because someone who likes it doesn't have a long posting history. To be
cautious is understandable but just don't dismiss it out of hand:)
Later,
Markus
"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:k0tues0gaf8n37vqf...@4ax.com...
LShaping@...
>I think the issue is that you seem to dismiss anything from people that are
>not regular posters to usenet.
That is an illusion.
>Personally I find it rather insulting to be dismissed out of hand just
>because I am not a regular poster.
That is a straw man.
>This is especially insulting to people (such as myself) who really believe
>the game is an improvement over all the other RTS's out there.
><snipped repetition of the straw man stuff>
I understand that your angle is "I am an innocent consumer who likes
Tzar and LShaping is calling me a shill". I haven't pointed my finger
at you. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
C ya,
LShaping
Chris White
value to say about Tzar.
Personally, I am enjoying Tzar very much (especially multiplayer - check out
http://tzar.gameglow.com/ forums for details and online opponents). We have
had some kickass games so far. Come join us (need more multiplayer
opponents :-) ).
And NO, LShaping, I do not work for any of the companies involved in
developing/marketing Tzar.
-Chris
Trade Agent <nos...@nspam.com> wrote in message
news:pFAH4.991$5D....@ozemail.com.au...
LShaping@...
>Reading this thread, it becomes very apparent that LShaping has nothing of
>value to say about Tzar.
I did ask whether it allowed spectating. Just because that was not
what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it is worthless. I think you
value my comments too much.
>
>Personally, I am enjoying Tzar very much (especially multiplayer - <snip>
>And NO, LShaping, I do not work for any of the companies involved in
>developing/marketing Tzar.
>-Chris
Seems to me that some do. I have another question. Is it more of a
click fest, or a strategy game? The only thing I have heard so far,
except for the restlessness attributed to my comments, is that Tzar is
like Warcraft.
C ya,
LShaping
Markus
Sorry, didn't mean to blow anything out of proportion.
That was just the impression I got. Glad it wasn't accurate.
If you do try the demo or full game I would be interested in your opinion.
Later,
Markus
"LShaping@..." <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:f82vesst9439am2kq...@4ax.com...
Chris White
LShaping@... <NoS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:chfvesk64itkm2g7e...@4ax.com...
> "Chris White" <nos...@no.spam> wrote:
>
> >Reading this thread, it becomes very apparent that LShaping has nothing
of
> >value to say about Tzar.
>
> I did ask whether it allowed spectating. Just because that was not
> what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it is worthless. I think you
> value my comments too much.
Sorry, I didn't see your original message asking about a spectating
capability. To me, it looked like you were making negative comments, having
played neither the demo nor the retail version. I was too quick to bang out
a response, without first understanding the context in which your comment
was made. <sheepish grin>
> >
> >Personally, I am enjoying Tzar very much (especially multiplayer - <snip>
> >And NO, LShaping, I do not work for any of the companies involved in
> >developing/marketing Tzar.
> >-Chris
>
> Seems to me that some do.
It is, of course, always possible that some posters work for game
publishers/developers. However, I think in the case of Tzar, you see people
who have discovered an unhyped game that has *far* exceeded their
expectations. I do not usually get all that excited about a computer game
because, frankly, many of them are not fun to play. However, speaking as a
former Warcraft player, Tzar is really the first RTS game since Warcraft to
have the same atmosphere and "feel" to it. Yes, there is nothing
"revolutionary" about Tzar. And, no, it's not perfect. But, IMO, it's
gameplay and atmosphere come very close to Warcraft, plus incorporating many
of the improvements the last several years have brought to the RTS genre. I
think this is why people are enjoying Tzar so much, and showing it in the
newsgroup.
> I have another question. Is it more of a
> click fest, or a strategy game? The only thing I have heard so far,
> except for the restlessness attributed to my comments, is that Tzar is
> like Warcraft.
It's as much a click-fest as Warcraft was. :-) That's not to say that
strategy is not important. In fact, without it, you will certainly lose.
You must do more than just build a ton of units and move them against an
enemy position. Tactics such as mixed forces, simultaneous and multiple
directions of attack (pincer), ambushes, and clearly stated objectives for a
particular military manuver are essential to success. Without them, a good
player will absorb the attack, then counter-attack. In other games,
building 150 of one type of unit, and moving them directly into an enemy
base is often successful. This is not the case in Tzar.
-Chris
Markus
multiplayer game or viewing how the AI operates?
> I have another question. Is it more of a
> click fest, or a strategy game? The only thing I have heard so far,
> except for the restlessness attributed to my comments, is that Tzar is
> like Warcraft.
Depends what you mean by click fest. Units have a decent pathing AI and
your peasants have an excellent AI which results in less micromanagement of
peasants than I have experience in AOK, Warcraft, TA or TA:K.
There are five game speeds (I believe). I would expect that the quicker you
run the game the more the click speed would play a role.
In the single player you can turn on AI assist in either economy or military
assist modes (or complete assist).
The computer will then take care of your economy or military and does a
decent job at it.
This can leave you free to take care of the other aspect.
This can be used in multiplayer as well. However, I have noticed that it
can cause lag. This is only on one occurance (haven't tried again) so may
be an isolated incident.
And, I am in no way associated with the makers or sellers of this game
(although I wish I were:)).
If you have any questions about the game another great resource is the forum
at tzar.gameglow.com.
Later,
Markus
> C ya,
> LShaping
Kathleen Chin and Joseph Zakszewski
to this forum to publicly support this game because we enjoy it, and
because, in our humble opinions, the designers have done a great job making
a very FUN game.
In response to this you have accused people of working for the company to
'market ' the game, and you have flamed at least one other person.
This is why there is now a topic 'Re: Ignore LShaping... He has nothing of
value to say regarding Tzar'
Everyone has a right to their own opinion. Some of us like the game. If
you don't that is ok too. Lets try to keep this civil, so people coming to
this group can get the info they need to decide if they would like the game.
To answer your question, it is much more of a strategy game than a click
fest. There are ssignificant unit bonuses and penalties versus different
unit types, so the dreaded 'C&C tank rush' is useless.
There are also four different technology paths that are somewhat exclusive
due to the costs to build and research.
And there are some new twists, like being able to train your units before
battle, and creating magic items, and hiring heroes, (and the explore
command).
The game does remind me of warcraft, and the graphics are similar to AOE,
and you have lots and lots of units like in TA,
But I am having an awfull lot of fun playing it, and playing it, and playing
it.
Check the demo out for your self.
GhengisRexx
LShaping@... wrote in message ...
>"Chris White" <nos...@no.spam> wrote:
>
>>Reading this thread, it becomes very apparent that LShaping has nothing of
>>value to say about Tzar.
>
>I did ask whether it allowed spectating. Just because that was not
>what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it is worthless. I think you
>value my comments too much.
>>
>>Personally, I am enjoying Tzar very much (especially multiplayer - <snip>
>>And NO, LShaping, I do not work for any of the companies involved in
>>developing/marketing Tzar.
>>-Chris
>
>Seems to me that some do. I have another question. Is it more of a
>click fest, or a strategy game? The only thing I have heard so far,
>except for the restlessness attributed to my comments, is that Tzar is
>like Warcraft.
>C ya,
>LShaping
Trade Agent
Exactly which game released in the last year has been revolutionary?
They are all just building on each other. Like you say a Fun game what more
can we want?
?
"Mark Hanson" <mar...@flashemail.net> wrote in message
news:8XsD4.3577$nI2....@ptah.visi.com...
> As I see it Tzar is a mix of AOK and Warcraft II with a few different
ideas
> thrown in the mix.
> Tzar is a fun game (IMHO). Not a revolutionary game.
> The large selection of buildings is cool.
> I have only played the first few tutorials so far. I do like the fact
that
> you can domesticate animals (cows) and get a huge increase in food for
that.
> The villager AI seems adequate.
> Fields don't run out of food.
> Technology can give you actual changes to the way your units operate (such
> as gaining experience).
> Forests can actually be traveled through instead of operating as a
barrier.
> Peasants can convert an enemy building. This takes time and the level of
> success depends upon how far the building is away from enemy outposts as
> compared to your own.
> As it is not instant the opponent has time to stop this from happening.
> As I complete each tutorial I am looking forward to what the next will
have
> in store for me:)
> Not every game will apeal to every person. Nothing wrong with not
enjoying
> a game, just find one you do:)
>
> Markus
> "Jason Lutes" <jlu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:38DD4E8E...@earthlink.net...
> > A request to all you Tzar-lovers:
> >
> > I returned the game the day after I bought it because I found it
> > feature-poor and quite inferior to AoK, which is my new standard for
> > RTS. I really want a good fantasy-themed RTS, but I thought Tzar was a
> > weak attempt. Maybe I just didn't give it enough time. Those of you that
> > have played the game for awhile now, I'd be interested in hearing what
> > you're continuing to like about it and what good things you've
> > encountered the more you play. Convince me I was too quick to judge!
> >
> > Thanks...
>
>
mark...@my-deja.com
True in a sense.
While not really 'revolutionary' formations in AOK was a very nice step
forward.
Tzar just put together a very nice package of things that were already
floating around out there:)
Markus
In article <71TK4.7559$5D.1...@ozemail.com.au>,
"Trade Agent" <nos...@nspam.com> wrote:
> Hmmm
>
> Exactly which game released in the last year has been revolutionary?
>
> They are all just building on each other. Like you say a Fun game
what more
> can we want?
>