CaesarIII - Market and granaries / warehouse problems
mer...@mind#spring.com
>If the granaries or warehouse locate to far from the market , the market
>just won't get the stuffs from it . Sometimes , those farm are located very
>far from the city centre . Anyway to solve this problem ?
Build granaries between those distant markets and warehouses and
granaries on the opposite side of town. Your new granaries will get
supplies from the others and then provide supplies for the local
markets.
mersey@mind#spring.com
remove the # to email
Calvin Kong
just won't get the stuffs from it . Sometimes , those farm are located very
far from the city centre . Anyway to solve this problem ?
Will native trading earn money ? Those brabarian just push into the
warehouse and take without my permission .
Calvin
Calvin Kong
housing area . And further more , the new granaries will be too far from the
farm .
I'm now on the level where on a very rocky map ( peaceful ) . The fertile
land is totally separated from my starting area and between that , is a
group of barbarians . In this map , I have built various community
everywhere in the map due to rocky terrain . The far most area from the
fertile land just can't get a chance to get the food . And I can't beat this
level because my prosperity is very low ( 29 and 50 is needed ) because my
house standard is very lousy due to unavailable of food supply in most of
the housing area .
How to play this level ? I had met the requirement for others except
prosperity .
Thanks
Calvin
David Lester
for desirability, but they aren't dreadful, either. You can also offset the
negative desirability with other things, like gardens or plaza.
Don't forget that you need to use Special Orders on your granaries (access
these by right-clicking on them) and set them to GO GET the food type you
are farming. This will keep them well-supplied, and able to supply your
markets well.
David Lester
Designer
Calvin Kong wrote in message <36343...@news1.tm.net.my>...
Steven McAllister
.
I essentially concentrated my settlement on the two islands. There's enough fertile land there on the second island to build half a dozen farms. I also allocated some denarii to build city gates to seal off the two islands from the wolves (the first time I tried this scenario I didn't do this and the wolves invaded and ate my populace!) So far the city gates seem to act as a barrier. The really difficult thing to do is keep things in perspective and stay on budget. This is difficult for me because I am very fastidious about how I build my cities. I like everything neat and square. These two islands don't always lend themselves well to my utopian ideals and this serves as a constant source of frustration.
There's enough room on the first island to build an iron mine and a couple of weapon factories. Build your farms on the second. You'll need two granaries. It's important to toggle the "getting food" button on the second granaries in order to induce the cart pushers to move food across the bridges to your iron mine/weapon factory island. Of course you'll need a market in each community to distribute the food.
(The plan is): Eventually, the natives will make nice, and I can make a bee line up the slopes and gobble up the fertile farm land that lies so tantalizing behind those rocks. I haven't gotten this far yet, but I remain ever hopeful. A 50 prosperity rating does seem steep for this scenario especially when you consider the paltry trade potential.
祐. Mc Allister
Bob
prosperity
>above 47. I am really, really, really frustrated.
>
>: (The plan is): Eventually, the natives will make nice
I'm going to fire up the game (again) and send my legion against the
Indians. Let's see what happens :)
>
>expanding onto the eastern mainland, although I'll be damned if I can
>figure out how to make the main island and the native island alone
support
>5000 people. I seem to have to sacrifice prosperity for population,
and
>vice versa.
>
Very true. I had 5500 people and 42 prosperity. Then I started making
statues etc. Anything they wanted to raise prosperity. The rating came
up to 46 and the people went down to 4500.
>I've complained about wolves before, and I don't think anyone wants
to
>hear me rhyme off the reasons they annoy me yet again. But BOY do
they
>annoy me. This is the logic as I see it:
>
>- If you surround wolves with aqueducts they'll leave you alone.
They
>won't die, of course, since they have plenty to eat in the 3x3
aqueducted
>
What I did was build a legion _before_ I connected with the last
bridge. When I connected I sent over the legion and wiped out all the
wolves. It worked.
If you figure out how to win this level _do_ post the answer here!
>have EVERYBODY leave EVERY OTHER CATEGORY in order to fill the
>high-priority category to maximum. Let's say I have 30 labourers and
I
>set Water, Religion, and Industry to 1, 2, and 3. Then it should set
10
>people to each of those, not 30 to Water and let the other two go
empty.
>Or at least there should be an option to do it that way.
>
>I didn't explain that very well, but I hope I made my point.
>
You did. I also find it poor to not be able to proportionate my
workers. Maybe a slider type of thingie instead of a check box for
on/off
>Anyway, I've ranted enough for now. I really wish I could just
forget
>this level for the rest of my life. It hasn't been fun for a long
time,
>and I just want to move on. I spent a lot of time reading Mr.
Lester's
>friendly and informative posts, and I want to reiterate how glad I am
he's
>here. But I really find this level a dud, and as much as I like and
>respect Mr. Lester, I can't get over the fact that the game would
have
>been a lot better if this level were more reasonable.
But not much more 'reasonable'. The game is hard. And that's a good
thing.
henn...@itech.net
"Bob" <b...@abac.com> wrote:
This is the peacefull level 6 or 7? map in gaul with the natives and hills
with farm land.
> >I have been playing for about TWO WEEKS now and I can't get my
> prosperity
> >above 47. I am really, really, really frustrated.
> >
> >: (The plan is): Eventually, the natives will make nice
>
> I'm going to fire up the game (again) and send my legion against the
> Indians. Let's see what happens :)
I made about 3 mission posts when I wanted to colonize this part of the map.
With the risk overlay you can see if there are any native problems. If you
have risk areas the natives will trash you buildings. I had a hippodrome up
in a small patch of red, 5000 bucks for that mistake.
>
> >
> >expanding onto the eastern mainland, although I'll be damned if I can
> >figure out how to make the main island and the native island alone
> support
> >5000 people. I seem to have to sacrifice prosperity for population,
> and
> >vice versa.
> >
People was not much of a problem for me, had 5400 as a peak, but to raise my
prosperity up I had to trash anything below small casa. It went down to
4600, but as I made sure I had lots of insulie, the people filled in again
and I won.
>
> Very true. I had 5500 people and 42 prosperity. Then I started making
> statues etc. Anything they wanted to raise prosperity. The rating came
> up to 46 and the people went down to 4500.
>
> >I've complained about wolves before, and I don't think anyone wants
> to
> >hear me rhyme off the reasons they annoy me yet again. But BOY do
> they
> >annoy me. This is the logic as I see it:
> >
> >- If you surround wolves with aqueducts they'll leave you alone.
> They
> >won't die, of course, since they have plenty to eat in the 3x3
> aqueducted
> >
>
> What I did was build a legion _before_ I connected with the last
> bridge. When I connected I sent over the legion and wiped out all the
> wolves. It worked.
I set the speed to 10 and well the wolves in. Later (when i have lots of
cash) I make a legion or javalins and they kill the wolves.
>
> If you figure out how to win this level _do_ post the answer here!
I solved it and will try to relate what I did to help others out.
First thing I did was set the speed to 10 and wall in the wolves. I then
surveyed the map and the empire to come up with a plan as to what to make and
where to start my colony. There is an island on the south that has a small
patch of farm land. Build small bridges (no sea trade) to connect that
island with the main road from rome. I built a 7x7 area with a fountain
surounded by gardens and houseing 2 from the road. Build up the farms and
make and iron mine and 2 weapon factories. Open the trade route with the
city that buys weapons. Now get people in and build up this island with a
granery and market and temples and other things they need that you can fit
into the island. Once you start making a profit from weapons trade build a
bridge to the natives area and build mission posts. The posts dont need
employes just road access so just build em on the natives roads and check to
native risks overlay. On this new land I built up another 7x7 community.
This is where you have to expand quick up to the farm area, since the farms
on the island cant handle the extra load. In the new farm area, just make a
few tent areas so your farms get workers. Make a bunch of graneries so you
can crank out grain and meat, because you will need it! Dont make a
community up on that hill you need all the space for farms and graneries!
Make sure you are maxing out your marble,pottery and weapons trade. At the
end of the mission I had 20000 gold so you dont have to worry to much. If
you find you are getting short on employies just mothball the marble and
weapon industrys. Once you get the native area popluated with a couple
comunities (I only have 1 major 7x7 and a couple of 2x2 areas), you can move
east from your first island. Make new comunities there and make sure you
have 2 or 3 graneries getting food, a warehouse or 2, and 3 or 4 markets per
each 7x7 block, to make sure you get villas. This is the hardest part since
food has to travel very far for your markets. Make a few warehouses with
funiture and pottery areas close by so you dont have to ship these things all
over. Once you get about 5500 pop., with less than 50 prosperity bulldoze
anything less than a small casa, unless you can up thier house. Not enough
workers was always a problem for me. But that was not so bad , since I kept
health/education as the lowest priority and had 10000 gold + for most of the
game. I think a large (medium?) villa is the best you can get on this map
since you only have 1 wine. So be very happy when you have 1 or 2 villas per
7x7 block. Dont be to worried about having houses right up next to a factory
or granery. I was able to get those houses to medium cassa with plazas,
statues and gardens. Most of what I did when everything was in place was to
tweek the placement of things and fill in areas with gardens and statues.
Food and goods distribution is a pain so you have to over compensate with
extra graneries and markets, And if you notice an area that just can get
food, bulldoze and put up statues or gardens.
>
> >have EVERYBODY leave EVERY OTHER CATEGORY in order to fill the
> >high-priority category to maximum. Let's say I have 30 labourers and
> I
> >set Water, Religion, and Industry to 1, 2, and 3. Then it should set
> 10
> >people to each of those, not 30 to Water and let the other two go
> empty.
> >Or at least there should be an option to do it that way.
> >
> >I didn't explain that very well, but I hope I made my point.
> >
>
> You did. I also find it poor to not be able to proportionate my
> workers. Maybe a slider type of thingie instead of a check box for
> on/off
I just had everything set to 1 with health/education at 2 and military at 3.
(once i had my legion)
>
> >Anyway, I've ranted enough for now. I really wish I could just
> forget
> >this level for the rest of my life. It hasn't been fun for a long
> time,
> >and I just want to move on. I spent a lot of time reading Mr.
> Lester's
> >friendly and informative posts, and I want to reiterate how glad I am
> he's
> >here. But I really find this level a dud, and as much as I like and
> >respect Mr. Lester, I can't get over the fact that the game would
> have
> >been a lot better if this level were more reasonable.
>
> But not much more 'reasonable'. The game is hard. And that's a good
> thing.
>
Yeah this game is rough, but its fun! This next map looks like its going to
be a real nasty challenge. Desert map(god I hate all the fires) with no
farms and I need to get a really high prosperity. Maybe next week I will be
able to post my solution for this map.
Wondering when I am going to have time for Ceaser III, fallout 2, xenogears,
diablo with friends online, heavy gear 2, starsiege tribes, and starcraft,
Shane
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Aaron Baugher
level:
> I still love this game in theory, but the "peaceful" level with
> three bridges and the natives and the nine-farm fertile area in the
> middle of an island is about to make me quit it forever. It's not
> quite there yet, but it's close. I am starting to suspect that if I
> don't build exactly the right city, with each building in exactly
> the place the programmers thought I should put them, it's damn near
> unwinnable.
I doubt that, as my city is pretty chaotic, and I'm always redesigning
as I go along. I just finished it last night, and I posted some stuff
specific to raising prosperity on another thread (Subject: Ceasar III
Procurator (peaceful) level).
> I *sailed* through the levels before this one, needing only a couple
> of shots at each one before I was able to do them right. But this
> one is picky and contrary. I'm about THIS close to requesting that
> someone send me a saved-game where they're just about to win it so
> that I can just win it and move on, since I have lost all hope of
> having any fun with it any more.
I don't have a save from *right* before the end, but I've probably got
one at about 4000 pop. with high ratings, if you want to take a look
at it.
> I'll start with a minor bug report. Does it seem to you guys that
> there is no risk of fire anywhere on this level? Like, ever? Is it
> supposed to be like that?
Yes, it's apparently a very wet part of the world. :-) I finished the
level with one prefecture, which I built for crime but discovered I
didn't need.
> Natives lose their tempers for absolutely no reason in this
> scenario. I have a game (I'll send it to tech support if they want
> to see it) where I have three active mission posts and the natives
> are happy for years, trading their big carts full of (cotton? what
> is that stuff?) with me, and generally keeping their plans to
> overthrow my city to themselves. And then, blam, down go my
> buildings with NO warning whatsoever.
I had this happen once despite having four mission houses, but this
time I finished the level with two. I'm not certain, but I think that
if your missionaries don't cross an area of the natives' territory
every so often, it'll return to hostile status, and if you build on it
then, they'll get mad. I'm not sure about that, though. It might
also make a difference if you remove their roads, so the missionaries
can't get around to all their territory; this time I left their roads
alone, or just moved them.
> That part is possible (at least until the natives Lose It). What's
> less possible is getting furniture and pottery to the area north of
> your primary island. I'm getting better at micromanaging warehouses
> and granaries (empty granary! OK, now stop! OK, empty again! how'd
> you get so empty so fast? stop!) so that goods go where they're
> supposed to, but it is definitely an Extremely Large Headache. I've
> pretty much given up expanding onto the eastern mainland, although
> I'll be damned if I can figure out how to make the main island and
> the native island alone support 5000 people. I seem to have to
> sacrifice prosperity for population, and vice versa.
I squeezed 5000 people into the native island and the three islands
below it (the farm island, the big island in the bottom corner, and
the one in between those two), with a few houses dispersed among my
farms on the plateau for labor. I only put a fort, a granary, and a
warehouse on the mainland. It's a little tight, but you can do it.
Keep in mind that once housing develops to insulae, it'll usually have
room for a lot more people, and it takes quite a while to fill up,
especially considering how far immigrants have to walk. If you've got
housing with extra room, you might try things other than adding
housing to bring in people - low taxes, high wages, 0% unemployment,
etc.
> I've complained about wolves before, and I don't think anyone wants
> to hear me rhyme off the reasons they annoy me yet again. But BOY
> do they annoy me. This is the logic as I see it:
> - If you surround wolves with aqueducts they'll leave you alone.
> They won't die, of course, since they have plenty to eat in the 3x3
> aqueducted space that has been given to them, but they'll leave you
> alone.
It's always annoying when people find a loophole to defeat a challenge
in a game. (Didn't a single beta-tester try walling in the wolves?)
If you build a tower on your side of the river, it'll keep the wolf
population trimmed down until you get a javelin troop formed. Then
you can build a bridge, run them across, and wipe them out. Once
you've wiped out all the wolves, they won't come back.
> You're telling me! Not to mention the fact that you can never count
> on getting your imports, since "random" landslides often prevent
> traders from getting to your city later on in the scenario.
> Moreover, the psychos from one of the trade routes seem to think you
> need 400 oil at a time, bankrupting you the minute they set
> donkeyfoot near your warehouses.
They won't sell you more than the limit on the trade map, but at the
price of oil, that adds up fast anyway. In my other post, I recommend
holding off on importing oil until you've got your treasury to $5000
and have a steady income. It doesn't do any good to bring in a short
supply - that'll just cause your housing to fluctuate a lot and make
things more difficult.
> I know this level is winnable, since a number of the people on the
> newsgroup have done it. But it's starting to remind me of those old
> text-adventure games, like Zork. As much as I loved those games, I
> hated the fact that you basically had to read the developers' minds
> so that you could choose EXACTLY THE RIGHT verb to use with the
> object they gave you.
I get that feeling less with this game than with most. The
first-person shooters are really bad about that - jump here, shoot
there; they remind me of Pac-Man, where if you knew the pattern, you
could play the game forever. Even in games like SimCity, the radius
method of providing services doesn't leave much to the imagination;
everything gets laid out in a similar grid every time.
In C3, I can design cities of long main streets with side cul-de-sacs,
small blocks, large blocks, and probably some things I haven't thought
of yet. In fact, my cities look a lot like real cities - square
blocks of different sizes, dead ends, streeets and neighborhoods
weaved around the terrain.
> I said in my last message that I thought there was a fruit bug. I
> had done everything right -- emptying the warehouse, setting the
> granary to "getting goods", you name it. One thing I've noticed is
> that food seems to be lowest priority for cart pushers -- they will
> spend all their time running around your city taking iron to weapons
> workshops and they will CONTINUE to do this even if your people are
> starving. I guess the right thing to do is to have a warehouse that
> does nothing *except* accept fruit, which seems like a huge waste of
> space and labour.
I'm not sure if it's a priority problem, or if it's random, but you're
right, I've seen this too. Since the granaries don't go get food from
warehouses, the best solution is to make sure nothing else is allowed
at that warehouse that would need to be delivered. You could still
let your industries put export goods on it, though.
> Why does prosperity creep up so slowly? I'll have the "Your
> prosperity is rising" message for months and months of game-time and
> nothing will happen. Then my prosperity will go up by 2 for a short
> time, usually to drop again soon afterwards.
I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that it's easier to *keep*
ratings high than to *get* them high. That's probably just a
perception on my part, but it seems to help me if I add housing
slowly, and get it up to at least insulae, so it doesn't pull
prosperity down. That message is annoying; I don't think I've ever
seen it say anything but "Your prosperity is rising", even when it
clearly isn't. It's too bad it doesn't tell you something useful,
like the other ratings do.
> Oh, while I'm here, I'd like to complain about the priority
> system. [snip] Let's say I have 30 labourers and I set Water,
> Religion, and Industry to 1, 2, and 3. Then it should set 10 people
> to each of those, not 30 to Water and let the other two go empty.
> Or at least there should be an option to do it that way. I didn't
> explain that very well, but I hope I made my point.
In other words, you'd like to be able to set multiple things to the
same priority, so they would split whatever workers are left for that
priority level. There are times when that would be handy.
> Anyway, I've ranted enough for now. I really wish I could just
> forget this level for the rest of my life. It hasn't been fun for a
> long time, and I just want to move on. I spent a lot of time
> reading Mr. Lester's friendly and informative posts, and I want to
> reiterate how glad I am he's here. But I really find this level a
> dud, and as much as I like and respect Mr. Lester, I can't get over
> the fact that the game would have been a lot better if this level
> were more reasonable.
I have to say that I'm enjoying the difficulty of the game. So many
games nowadays become too easy once you figure out the basics; I've
been playing this one quite a while and still don't feel like I've
mastered it yet. That's not to say that difficulty options would have
been a bad idea; just that it's nice to play a game for once where I
don't feel like I've outsmarted the programmer after the first few
hours of play.
Aaron
--
Aaron Baugher - abau...@rnet.com
Extreme Systems Consulting - http://haruchai.rnet.com/esc/
CGI, Perl, Java, and Linux/Unix Administration
Chris Schirlinger
>I still love this game in theory, but the "peaceful" level with three
>bridges and the natives and the nine-farm fertile area in the middle of an
>island is about to make me quit it forever. It's not quite there yet, but
>it's close. I am starting to suspect that if I don't build exactly the
---CUT---
When I first looked at this level, I couldn't believe you had to walk
your road down, build three bridges and place you entire starting
population including farms on a small island *WITH* wolves *AND*
natives. I spent about half an hour trying to find another route that
I must have missed in the rocks to that nice farm land. Anyway, I
didn't find it, here is what I did to win...
Build your road and bridges to the island. Don't build a bridge over
to the natives yet. Build a starting pop and grow on the island till
you are using all three farms and have a LITTLE unemployment. (all
that was really obvious)
PROBLEM 1 : The natives : Ok, the native risk (red area) can be
reduced by missionary posts. Each post *seems* to have a area around
it where walkers from the post reduce the native risk to normal
territory. The walkers NEED roads and there is at least one hut (The
northern one, to the NE actually) that can't be reached by roads! I
had to build a road close to the red area (NEVER INTO IT) and then
build another missionary post near by. Once ALL the red is gone (It
took four posts with me but I was paranoid) you can walk through the
native areas and do anything you want. I never had any problems with
the natives but made sure there was NO red risk are before I let
anyone wander around.
PROBLEM2 : The Wolves : Sure, you can build some troops, Javelins are
nice, but they take up area which you need for population (There was
barely enough for me). I build a LOT of prefectures (4 on the island
side of the bridge and generally three instead of where ever I would
put one. This keeps the wolves down a little. Second, I watched where
the wolves went. Often, the walk in a pack over to the far left of the
screen, I just built a wall once the walked far enough over top the
left. I lost a little land, but during the game they move about in
their area, you can reduce their corral if you wish. The remaining
wolves (only two or three) were killed by prefectures which were
dismantled once they were dead. The wolves remained in the corral for
the rest of the game.
PROBLEM 3 : The Prosperity Rate : Population and the rest of the
requirement are easy enough. I managed about 1000 over the
requirement but prosperity was only 15 or something silly. To fix
that, try and get ALL buildings to the MAX you can get them to. Get
pottery up and running and respond to ALL "this building cannot
advance because it has no xxxxxx". My final employment rate was
terrible, I required 600 for education and only had 200 or something,
still, the schools with 2 of 10 workers STILL advances the buildings
near it, just not as fast or as well.
I spent a lot of time getting my farm houses (Usually just tents near
the far away farms to they would have workers near by) advanced. To
finally raise my prosperity level I had NO TENTS ANYWHERE on the map,
if I couldn't give them AT LEAST fresh water and a market, I flattened
them. On the wealth graph, there were no bars on the left most three,
all the bars were in the middle.
Prosperity was the hardest since it seems to only increase once a
year, you have to wait till december and then it raises or not. If it
doesn't the requirements screen will tell you if you click on
prosperity button and it will tell you why. Usually because you have
tents or others like shacks. Tents (Even three of four squares) REALL
holds your prosperity back.
Hope this helps, after re-reading it, it looks a little long winded.
Oh well
Chris
Chris Schirlinger
>Hi there, and thanks for your message.
>
>In article <363f64f...@news.cosmos.net.au> you wrote:
>
>You misunderstand me. There was no red risk for MONTHS, and then a red
>risk suddenly appeared. I only realized this *after* the natives flipped
>out. This has happened to me about three times. I know all about
>building a road up to that last house, believe me.
>
>The only answer that has been suggested which made any sense to me was
>that a walker may have missed a path for a while, and the red reappeared.
>But I didn't get any warning message, and that's what I'm complaining
>about. When the gods are angry, you get a warning -- is it too much to
>ask for the same when the natives are angry? Or at least have some sort
>of warning behaviour (natives waving torches) before your granaries go up
>in flames?
Ahh, sorry. Ok, in that case it seems the likely answer is the one you
already have, that a walker hasn't gone past a native hut in a while
and the red spot has come back. I agree that there should be a warning
though, as the gods. Perhaps you should over compensate with Missions?
As I mentioned, I had four. Since the natives had a rather convoluted
path system and I didn't want to bother them too much, I placed the
missions all over so the walkers generally only had two choices, go
left, or go right.
>: PROBLEM 2 : Wolves.
>
>I have taken care of the wolves with aqueducts. I still think that their
>presence is annoying and doesn't add anything to gameplay. They're like
>zebras that reproduce and can kill anyone instantly!
The animals are a sort of after thought I think that don't really add
much to the game. Sure they look pretty, but a herd of sheep sitting
in the middle of the city blocking off 10 or so building sites and
never moving is very annoying. The first mission with wolves all I
heard was "growl...ARRGH" with no indication where it came from. It
took me about 10 mins real time to find on wolf in the MIDDLE of a
busy street, eating people and totally ignored by prefectures.
>Thanks, though, for pointing out that prosperity only goes up once a year.
>I didn't realize that. Perhaps I would have been able to increase
>prosperity if I did more stuff in December. It's like all those people
>who get married in December so that they can get all the tax benefits at
>the end of the year. :)
The annoying thing about the once a year prosperity thing (I should
have warned you earlier) is that you can see "Your prosperity is
raising" on the requirements screen in December and in January, your
prosperity is EXACTLY THE SAME OR LOWER and the text "Some housing is
holding your cities prosperity back" replacing it. Remove ALL tents.
This I cannot enforce enough. Apparently The prosperous abhor campers.
>Still hating this level (but doing better at it my fourth time through!)
This was the level I nearly ditched the game for. It was fine up to
the prosperity problem, since you only see a raise once a year, I
would *fix* the problem and leave the machine on for a while to wait
for the year to pass, find the problem wasn't fixed, repeat. I
finished a novel and a technical magazine while I was waiting. :-)
Share and Enjoy
Chris
namas...@gmail.com
Ross Ridge
>How to accept wheat to granary from farm? even if keep "accept" i.e
>display will be showing accept in granary, granary is empty
in the granary. If you're barely feeding your population grain may be
removed from the granary as soon as its put there. Houses also keep a
large stock of food, more than they need over the short term, so it may
take a while for the houses to fill up with food before any surplus ends
up in the granary.
If the granary is too far from the farms it may take a long time for carts
to move grain from the farms to granary, slowing down wheat production.
Also if there's closer grainry to the farms the grain will probably end
up there.
It should be obvious, but you should also have a road between your farms
and the granary. While the carts will move offroad if necessary, it's
much slower than using a road.
Ross Ridge
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l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
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