Thermal Imaging for Soviet Tanks
Robert Wartburg
Anybody know if the modern Soviets tanks were given the thermal sights
they are supposed to have (ie. T-80, T-80U, T-90, maybe even some
later model T-72's)? I've tested some scenarios and found that the
Western tanks (Abrams, Leopards, Challenger, etc) can shoot through
obscure hexes (smoke, night).
Also, what do the Fire Control and Visibility ratings mean? Is that
the key? If so, what is the rating for thermal imaging?
Robb McLeod
In article <32a65de0...@news.ni.net>,
wart...@ni.net (Robert Wartburg) wrote:
>Anybody know if the modern Soviets tanks were given the thermal sights
>they are supposed to have (ie. T-80, T-80U, T-90, maybe even some
>later model T-72's)? I've tested some scenarios and found that the
>Western tanks (Abrams, Leopards, Challenger, etc) can shoot through
>obscure hexes (smoke, night).
Russian tanks don't have Thermal Sights. At least, they don't have Thermal
Sights right now, and they aren't going to get them unless the Russian
government is willing to shell out the money necessary.
Robb McLeod
rmc...@uvic.ca
Colin Campbell
rmc...@uvic.ca (Robb McLeod) wrote:
>Russian tanks don't have Thermal Sights. At least, they don't have Thermal
>Sights right now, and they aren't going to get them unless the Russian
>government is willing to shell out the money necessary.
FYI, the T-90, late-model T-80's and even a few t-72 & 64's do have
thermal sights.
You can easily tell which ones have thermal sights. Just look at a
picture, and if there is no infra-red searchlight, then that tank has
thermal sights (this technique works on western tanks as well).
SFC Colin Campbell
Master Gunne - M60A3, M1, M1A1
Unit Master Gunner
B Troop, 1/18th Cavalry
John Waters
rmc...@uvic.ca (Robb McLeod) wrote:
>
>>Russian tanks don't have Thermal Sights. At least, they don't have Thermal
>>Sights right now, and they aren't going to get them unless the Russian
>>government is willing to shell out the money necessary.
Where did you get that idea that the Russians don't have an TIS?.
Russian tanks do have TIS's. The Russians currently have 2 TI systems
the 1st is the TPN4-49-23 Buran-PA, which was standard on the initial
T-80-Us. The 2nd is the newer 'Agava-2' TIS for the later T-80/T-90
tanks.
Regards, John Waters
Robb McLeod
In article <32a87ef3...@ns1.imcnet.net>,
JWa...@imcbbs.imcnet.net (John Waters) wrote:
>Russian tanks don't have Thermal Sights. At least, they don't have Thermal
>Sights right now, and they aren't going to get them unless the Russian
>government is willing to shell out the money necessary.
>
>Where did you get that idea that the Russians don't have an TIS?.
Jane's Armor and Artillery, 1994?
>Russian tanks do have TIS's. The Russians currently have 2 TI systems
>the 1st is the TPN4-49-23 Buran-PA, which was standard on the initial
>T-80-Us. The 2nd is the newer 'Agava-2' TIS for the later T-80/T-90
>tanks.
I know the Russians have operable TIS, but I was under the impression that
they hadn't equipped any units with them due to economics.
Why would the T-90 carry a TIS? It's an export varient of the T-72M sans
reactive armor, no?
Robb McLeod
rmc...@uvic.ca
Buddy Knight
In article <589s6n$7f8...@i2-36.islandnet.com>, rmc...@uvic.ca said...
>
>Why would the T-90 carry a TIS? It's an export varient of the T-72M sans
>reactive armor, no?
Customer demand??? (I'm serious.)
--
Buddy Knight
Paveway Programs
PH: (903-868-5712)
Fax: (903-868-7240)
Colin Campbell
rmc...@uvic.ca (Robb McLeod) wrote:
>Why would the T-90 carry a TIS? It's an export varient of the T-72M sans
>reactive armor, no?
Th T-90 is a top-of-the-line tank. Due to the need for hard currency
(and the abysimal performance of their export models) their customers
are only settling for 1st quality models.
The T-90 is a completely new design with several innovative features
(such as an ECM set with anti-antitank missile rockets).
Robert Wartburg
rmc...@uvic.ca (Robb McLeod) wrote:
>I know the Russians have operable TIS, but I was under the impression that
>they hadn't equipped any units with them due to economics.
>
>Why would the T-90 carry a TIS? It's an export varient of the T-72M sans
>reactive armor, no?
No, the reactive armor is similar to the T-72BM. The T-90 is a
front-line MBT for the Russian Army. Besides, why would they give
their TIS for the export market?
Check out the the following web site:
http://users.aol.com/threatmstr/afvs.htm#tanks
Steven Skutell
I remember that they had light intensifying scopes. You could buy one
for about $150 a couple of years ago in Germany. Now I would not
get a pair unless you like Radiation going straight to your Cornea.
Steve
James Moore
In article <32a65de0...@news.ni.net>, wart...@ni.net (Robert Wartburg) wrote:
>Anybody know if the modern Soviets tanks were given the thermal sights
>they are supposed to have (ie. T-80, T-80U, T-90, maybe even some
>later model T-72's)?
Take a look at http://users.aol.com/threatmstr/ptwserg.html. Here's what's
listed there for thermal imaging systems on MBTs:
TR-125 This is the Romanian version of the T-72 which has a number of
significant differences to the original Soviet MBT. The TR-125
weighs 48 tons, due to increased armor protection over
the frontal arc. The TR-125 has seven road wheels of a different design, a new
one
piece skirt and is powered by a more powerful 880 hp
diesel engine. PT-91 Twardy This Polish variant of the T-72 has a number of
improvements over the earlier T-72M1. The major improvements include:
Polish-developed explosive reactive armor Type ERAWA-1; four laser warning
receivers, which warn
the crew if they are being targeted by a laser rangefinder or designator; new
computerized fire control system, with optional thermal sight; new passive
night sights; improved
automotive components including 850 hp engine, rubber bushed tracks, and a
modern fire detection and suppression system.
T-80UK This is the command version of the T-80U fitted with additional radios
and antennas. At a recent display of military equipment, a
T-80UK was displayed fitted with the Shtora-1
electro-optical countermeasures system, a metero-logical sensor, laser warning
receivers, and
thermal sights. The Shtora-1 system consists of a laser
warning device, remote aerosol formations system (81-mm smoke mortars), and
electro-optical jammers.
T-84 This vehicle is essentially a T-80UD tank produced by the Ukraine and
powered by an uprated 6TD-2 diesel engine. This engine develops
1200 hp, giving the vehicle an improved power-to-weight
ratio of about 27 hp/ton. The T-84 also includes the Shtora-1 electro-optical
countermeasures system, the Arena vehicle protection
system, improved tracks, thermal protection for the engine, and an air
conditioning
system for the crew. The armament consists of a Ukrainian
produced 125-mm KBA-3 main gun, fitted with an autoloader for 28 rounds. The
fire
control system enables accurate fire in daylight for up to 5000 meters for the
AT-11 ATGM and up to 2500 meters for main gun rounds. At night, the gunners
fire-control
system gives a forward field of view of up to 1200 meters while the thermal
imager extends this to 3000 meters. The Shtora-1 (described in the T-80UK
section) is fitted to this
tank, with the primary differences being six 81-mm smoke mortars on either
side of the turret, instead of the 4 fitted to the T-80UK. The Shtora-1 system
is reported to reduce the
hit-probability of ATGMs with semi-automatic control systems (TOW, HOT,
Dragon, and MILAN) up to five fold, while missiles with laser-homing heads
(Hellfire, Maverick
and Copperhead) have a similarly reduced probability of hitting.
T-90 Main Battle Tank
The T-90 retains the low silhouette of the earlier FSU tanks. The suspension
consists of six
large, die-cast, rubber-coated road wheels with the drive sprocket at the
rear, idler at the front
and three track-return rollers that support the inside of the track only.
Shock absorbers are
fitted at the first, second and sixth road wheel stations. There are side
skirts that extend along
the entire side of the tank. The front third of this skirt consists of armored
panels, whereas the
rear two-thirds consist only of rubberized panels. There is an engine exhaust
on the left side of
the hull above the last road wheel. The glacis is well sloped, and is covered
by second
generation ERA bricks and a large transverse rib that extends horizontally
across the glacis.
The driver sits at the front of the hull and has a single piece hatch cover
that opens to the right, in front of which is a single wide-angle observation
periscope. Integrated fuel cells and stowage containers give a streamlined
appearance to the fenders. The tank has a toothed shovel/dozer blade on the
front of the hull beneath the glacis. There are attachment points beneath the
blade for the KMT-6 mine-clearing plow. The low, rounded turret is centered
on the hull. The commander’s cupola is on the right side of the turret; the
gunner’s hatch is on the left side. The 125-mm main gun has a four section
removable thermal shield. It has two sections in front of, and two sections to
the rear of the mid-tube bore evacuator. A 7.62-mm coaxial machine-gun is
mounted to the right of the mantlet. The T-90 mounts two infra-red
searchlights on either side of the main armament; these are part of the Shtora
ATGM
defense system. The turret is covered with second generation reactive armor on
the frontal arc. This ERA gives the turret an angled appearance, with the
ERA bricks forming a "clam shell" appearance. There are ERA bricks on the
turret roof to provide protection from top-attack weapons. There are banks
of smoke mortars on either side of the turret, The T-90 is powered by the
Model 84 V-84 diesel engine, which produces 840 hp. This results in a power to
weight ratio of only 18.06 hp/ton, which is considerably less than that of the
T-80. The second generation ERA package, combined with the advanced
armor technology, makes the T-90 one of the best protected main battle tanks
in the world. This high level of protection is supplanted with the TShU-1-7
IR-Jamming system, which is designed to disrupt the guidance of incoming
ATGMs. This system consists of two infrared lights, one on each side of the
main gun, which continuously emit coded pulsed infrared jamming when an
incoming ATGM has been detected. The T-90 is also equipped with a laser
warning package that warns the tank crew when it is being lased. The T-90
retains the 125-mm 2A46-series main gun of the T-72 and T-80, and is
capable of firing the AT-11 SNIPER laser-guided ATGM. The AT-11, which can
penetrate 700-mm of RHAe out to 4000 meters, gives the T-90 the
ability to engage other MBTs, vehicle ATGMs, and even most helicopters before
they can engage the T-90. The computerized fire control system and laser
range-finder, coupled with the new gunner’s thermal sight permit the T-90 to
engage targets while on the move and at night. Detailed information on the
Agave gunner’s thermal sight is not yet available, but this is probably a
first generation system and not as capable as current Western systems.
James Moore
ban...@banshee.com
Robert Wartburg
ban...@banshee.com (James Moore) wrote:
>In article <32a65de0...@news.ni.net>, wart...@ni.net (Robert Wartburg) wrote:
>>Anybody know if the modern Soviets tanks were given the thermal sights
>>they are supposed to have (ie. T-80, T-80U, T-90, maybe even some
>>later model T-72's)?
>
>Take a look at http://users.aol.com/threatmstr/ptwserg.html. Here's what's
>listed there for thermal imaging systems on MBTs:
Yes, I'm aware of this great site and it is bookmarked. I was looking
for more sources to document the TIS on Soviet tanks. Using the
SPOBedit 1.7 I've given the T-80U Vision of 40, which is the benchmark
for TIS in the game. I'm still looking for sources for early model
T-80's and late model T-72's.
PAUL PRESTON
T-80U and T-90 tanks have been offered for export with thermal sights,
they are not supposed to be has capable as the latest western
systems. The T-80B and T-72S are only reported to have Image
Intensifiers, but if an export customer has enough dollers - Iran -
then maybe the T-72S could be fitted with thermal sights.
Paul Preston
blac...@msn.com