Warcraft II: Who's better? Part 2: Death Knights/Mages
Dave Choe
Death Coil vs Fireball
A few death coils can take out any unit quickly (except for
non organics like Flying Machines, Destroyers or
Ballistae). Almost any unit threating a Death Knight can be
Death Coiled; and the actual spell can branch out and hit
several units at one time.
The fireball doesn't do enough damage and has a small range
for its cost. You want fireballs, build a Gryphon.
Flame Shield vs ?????
Not bad, but your shielded unit can't be beside any other
friendly units, or there's trouble. Try it with a flying
machine.
I'm sorry, but I can't recall the Death Knight equilvalent.
Each unit can cast six spells, I can't remember one of the
Death Knights' spells. Please jog my memory.
Haste vs Slow
Haste increases the speed of a unit to a knight. This is
no good for Ogres, but for Dragons or Sappers, this is
great. Hasted Dragons can attack much faster, and Hasted
Sappers can get to where they're going without (hopefully)
taking too many hits.
Slow is great for defense, but I know that a slowed Ogre
can still catch up with a mage. Slowed Dragons are near
useless, however. And slowing down those sappers is
another plus.
Polymorph vs Raise Dead
Nothing beats a good polymorph for pure fun. Good against
hard-to kill units, like Dragons, or even a Zeppelin. And
an arrow through a sheep is still considered a kill.
Expensive, though.
Raise dead is a spell that is rarely used in my circle.
Still, it would be fun to see another army where there were
only bones before.
Unholy Armor vs Invisibility
You can't put invisibility or Unholy Armor on Sappers/Demo
Squads, so let's move on.
To me, Invisibility sux. As soon as you attack with an
invisible unit, it becomes visible again. For a mass
attack of 9 paladins, you need nine mages. And as soon as
you've finished casting the last one, the first guy is
probably visible again. The only advantage is that
invisible units can't be attacked. Good for scouting
purposes, escaping from a fight, or getting that one peon
to that gold mine when several ogres are guarding it. But
for 200 mana, it's damned expensive.
With Unholy Armor, you can send one Ogre with the Armor,
and he can punch and punch, killing at least two Paladins,
maybe three, before the spell wears off. Also a bit costly
though, but you get more results.
Death & Decay vs Blizzard
I noticed a weird thing playing Orcs once: I had a Death
K
Dave Choe
Death Coil vs Fireball
Flame Shield vs ?????
Haste vs Slow
Polymorph vs Raise Dead
Unholy Armor vs Invisibility
Knight cast Death & Decay in it's own area: the spell
seemed to have no effect on it. Apparently Death Knights
are immune to Death and Decay. I did the same with a Mage
and Blizzard when playing Humans, sure thing, the Mage was
dead within seconds. This slight difference gives this
spell to the Death Knights.
(I could be TOTALLY wrong about this Death&Decay thing,
please tell me if I am)
In conclusion, the Horde will probably end up destroying
any Humans with their magic advantages. Combos like a
Hasted, Bloodlusted Dragon or a Bloodlusted Ogre with
Unholy Armor can kick some major human @$$.
Comments, criticisms and additions are welcomed and
encouraged.
(I play Humans, and I need to find some Orc weaknesses!!)
dave...@utoronto.ca
???
useful and are the only reasons, along with Polymorph that the humans should
ever win.
Things to do with Invisibility:
1) make a Transport Invisible after loading it up with units for a major
surprise offensive (really nice if filled with Dwarves).
2) make a Mage (or two) Invisible and have them Blizzard the enemies Farms
(if clustered), Barracks, Blacksmith, Stables or Town Hall.
3) if there are choke points on the map, make a Peasant Invisible and have
him just stand in the way (see below).
4) make a peasant invisible and have him build Towers in the enemies camp.
If resources are good, build several and upgrade them simultaneously.
Things to do with Flame Shield:
1) cast it on an Invisible Peasant and have him become a formidable fighting
piece.
2) cast it on one member of a clustered group of enemy units (particularly
Peasant mining) and let them kill themselves.
In my opinion, Orcs have a large advantage in land wars (Garden of War) due to
Bloodlust. In naval conflicts, it is about even, with the nod going to the
Humans (due to Invisibility).
- LK
Commander Spock
wrote:
>The next category, Mages vs Death Knights.
>
> Death Coil vs Fireball
>
>A few death coils can take out any unit quickly (except for
>non organics like Flying Machines, Destroyers or
>Ballistae). Almost any unit threating a Death Knight can be
>Death Coiled; and the actual spell can branch out and hit
>several units at one time.
>
>The fireball doesn't do enough damage and has a small range
>for its cost. You want fireballs, build a Gryphon.
>
> Flame Shield vs ?????
>
>Not bad, but your shielded unit can't be beside any other
>friendly units, or there's trouble. Try it with a flying
>machine.
That's the point, cast flame-shield on enemy units that are clumped
together. Your opponent will have to spend time scattering his units
to prevent damaging his own units. Send in paladins to mop up the
scattered units in a concerted manner.
Totally disagree. Invisibility is THE spell. For example, on an
ocean level, you can cast invis on a transport. Voila, troops can
land as if from thin air, and devastate the unsuspecting opponent with
a strong navy. A couple of invisible paladins will MOW through an
enemies peons in a HURRY. Make 3-4 mages invisible, send them to your
opponents base, find a nice, hard to reach corner, and unload
simultaneous blizzards on clumps of farms, guard towers, barracks. A
kamakaze attack that pays off in spades. Send an invisible peon into
a well scouted enemy area, and build barracks right next to his base.
Place it right, and it will not be spotted for most of the game.
Jeff L. Montondon
> The next category, Mages vs Death Knights.
>
> Death Coil vs Fireball
>
> A few death coils can take out any unit quickly (except for
> non organics like Flying Machines, Destroyers or
> Ballistae). Almost any unit threating a Death Knight can be
> Death Coiled; and the actual spell can branch out and hit
> several units at one time.
>
> The fireball doesn't do enough damage and has a small range
> for its cost. You want fireballs, build a Gryphon.
>
can't get Gryphons.
> Flame Shield vs ?????
>
> Not bad, but your shielded unit can't be beside any other
> friendly units, or there's trouble. Try it with a flying
> machine.
>
> I'm sorry, but I can't recall the Death Knight equilvalent.
> Each unit can cast six spells, I can't remember one of the
> Death Knights' spells. Please jog my memory.
>
Whirlwind. Totally worthless. Try to use it on one target, it wanders off,
and even when you cast in in the middle of an area, it goes exactly where it
won't do you any good. Sometimes it wanders back and kills your own units...
You would think that since it's a magic whirlwind it could chase stuff...
Naturally attracted to trailer parks?
Single units aren't much use, so Flame Shield is rather limited usefulness.
Maybe if you're trying to kill a Guard Tower quick or something...
> Haste vs Slow
>
> Haste increases the speed of a unit to a knight. This is
> no good for Ogres, but for Dragons or Sappers, this is
> great. Hasted Dragons can attack much faster, and Hasted
> Sappers can get to where they're going without (hopefully)
> taking too many hits.
>
> Slow is great for defense, but I know that a slowed Ogre
> can still catch up with a mage. Slowed Dragons are near
> useless, however. And slowing down those sappers is
> another plus.
>
> Polymorph vs Raise Dead
>
> Nothing beats a good polymorph for pure fun. Good against
> hard-to kill units, like Dragons, or even a Zeppelin. And
> an arrow through a sheep is still considered a kill.
> Expensive, though.
>
> Raise dead is a spell that is rarely used in my circle.
> Still, it would be fun to see another army where there were
> only bones before.
>
Polymorph is a great Oh, Shit! weapon for Mages. It can stop pretty much
anything in its tracks... and change the tracks too. Raise Dead is okay for
cheap scouts after an attack or maybe little piddly units to buy some time with
when you're losing the battle. Polymorph is worth about 1000 times as much in
my book.
> Unholy Armor vs Invisibility
>
> You can't put invisibility or Unholy Armor on Sappers/Demo
> Squads, so let's move on.
>
> To me, Invisibility sux. As soon as you attack with an
> invisible unit, it becomes visible again. For a mass
> attack of 9 paladins, you need nine mages. And as soon as
> you've finished casting the last one, the first guy is
> probably visible again. The only advantage is that
> invisible units can't be attacked. Good for scouting
> purposes, escaping from a fight, or getting that one peon
> to that gold mine when several ogres are guarding it. But
> for 200 mana, it's damned expensive.
>
> With Unholy Armor, you can send one Ogre with the Armor,
> and he can punch and punch, killing at least two Paladins,
> maybe three, before the spell wears off. Also a bit costly
> though, but you get more results.
>
Well, I dunno about that. Maybe because I'm a naturally sneaky sort I like
Invisibility better, but an invisible transport packing 6 demo squads can be
extremely useful! First shot opportunity is generally a plus.
That dang Unholy Armor darn near kills of your unit though! After the spell is
cast, it loses about 50 percent health. It'd be fine if you had some Paladins
on your side, but IMHO, a half-dead Ogre isn't worth it. The resources tend to
be a bit scarce as it is without murdering your own guys...
> Death & Decay vs Blizzard
>
> I noticed a weird thing playing Orcs once: I had a Death
> K
Oops...
Basically they're the same.
Jeff
jm1...@swt.edu
Avijit Bandyopadhyay
: useful and are the only reasons, along with Polymorph that the humans should
: ever win.
: Things to do with Invisibility:
: 1) make a Transport Invisible after loading it up with units for a major
: surprise offensive (really nice if filled with Dwarves).
: 2) make a Mage (or two) Invisible and have them Blizzard the enemies Farms
: (if clustered), Barracks, Blacksmith, Stables or Town Hall.
: 3) if there are choke points on the map, make a Peasant Invisible and have
: him just stand in the way (see below).
: 4) make a peasant invisible and have him build Towers in the enemies camp.
: If resources are good, build several and upgrade them simultaneously.
Or better yet, take submarines and battleships, make em invisible, take
em in deep and surprise enemy. Combine with visible ships coming in off a
different direction and voila.... Or cast it on gryphons (later in the
game) and use em to take out pesky enemy units.
: Things to do with Flame Shield:
: 1) cast it on an Invisible Peasant and have him become a formidable fighting
: piece.
: 2) cast it on one member of a clustered group of enemy units (particularly
: Peasant mining) and let them kill themselves.
Or make an invisible paladin and cast flame shield on him. Take him in
let him sit beside a group of enemy units. When the invisibility wears
off, bring him back. (paladins are the fastest human unit).
: In my opinion, Orcs have a large advantage in land wars (Garden of
War) due to
: Bloodlust. In naval conflicts, it is about even, with the nod going to the
: Humans (due to Invisibility).
: - LK
Although, you can bloodlust and haste a group of four dragons and they'll
take out two towers (if they're close enough) before returning. Or they
can take out a coupla ships too... so, depends on yer style of game.
--
< Avijit Bandyopadhyay - ad...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca >
Old Man
: cast, it loses about 50 percent health. It'd be fine if you had some Paladins
: on your side, but IMHO, a half-dead Ogre isn't worth it. The resources tend to
: be a bit scarce as it is without murdering your own guys...
Unholy armor is great if you have an army coming at your defense and have
only a few ogres to protect. Just put the ogres in the key points, cast
unholy armor, and they will last considerably longer, giving the towers
the opportunity to wear down the enemy with arrows/cannons.
--
Scott Willhelm
more annyoing after destroying an enemy army with a few whirlwinds than
to see those whirlwinds come back and wreck your down... Blizzard is much
more useful..Add in polymorph and invisablitly and a well used mage can kick
some ass...
--
| Scott Wilhelm | Born Jan 22 1973, one of the lucky ones... |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
| Proudly PROLIFE | Hillary, why were you hiding the files? |
John Tsau
>IMHO, mages are better because blizzard beats whirlwind. There is nothing
>more annyoing after destroying an enemy army with a few whirlwinds than
>to see those whirlwinds come back and wreck your down... Blizzard is much
>more useful..Add in polymorph and invisablitly and a well used mage can kick
>some ass...
Yeah, whirlwind sucks... but blizzard should be compared to the death and decay
spell. Plus, Unholy Armor is a very nice spell.
--
John Tsau.
Internet Address : jo...@nwu.edu
Real World Address : 375 Oak Trails #101, Des Plaines, IL 60016
Real World Phone Numbers : (847) 297-5160 [home]
(708) 814-2275 [cellular]
M. Turian
> : In my opinion, Orcs have a large advantage in land wars (Garden of
> War) due to
> : Bloodlust. In naval conflicts, it is about even, with the nod going to the
> : Humans (due to Invisibility).
I don't think so. The Paladins heal is quite nice to have since you can
send 9 units into battle, have them fight until thay are running low and
retreat all of them. Have some Paladins cast heal and you have caused
mass destruction without spending valuable resources. Also Blizzard can
do wonders.
> Although, you can bloodlust and haste a group of four dragons and they'll
> take out two towers (if they're close enough) before returning. Or they
> can take out a coupla ships too... so, depends on yer style of game.
If they are attacking land then the humans can counter this with a few
well placed polymorphs. Or if the dragons are clumped then a flame shield
placed on a dragon to kill the dragons near, followed by a polymorph also
works well.(Of course you will have to act quite quickly)
Mike
--
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they
have exhausted all other alternatives." Abba Eban