MOO2: Beat Antares: Cheezy way to win?
John and Candice Emerson
Michael Liu wrote:
>
> Anyone else finding that beating Antares is a cheezy way to win?
> I was playing a Hard, Huge game with 8 players. I was a custom race
> with Creative. I like to play the diplomacy game so the computer
> players left me alone to research in peace. I had about 5 systems
> that were built up. Eventually I managed to research Doom Stars,
> so I decided it was time to go out and kick some butt. At this point
> in the game, most of the other computer players were ahead of me in number
> of systems though I was 3rd in population. I was also 3rd in tech.
> So, I pick a fight with the neighboring Gnolams. After fighting them
> to a stalemate, I finally built up a good fleet with about 5 Doom Stars
> and 5 Titans. I was going to attempt to wipe their colonies with this
> fleet but I decided to test the waters a bit with a smaller fleet consisting
> of about 3 Titans and 4 Battleships. Unfortunately, by this point
> the Gnolams had Death Rays in their Star Fortresses! So my smaller
> fleet got wiped without doing anything and I didn't think that there
> was any way for me to score a military win here. I decided to screw it and
> just beat the Antarans. Which I did quite easily with my fleet of Doom
> Stars and Titans.
>
> So I managed to win the game even with an underpowered military, a small
> number of systems, and not even the best tech. In MOO1, it would have
> been hopeless, but here you get the cheezy option of putting together
> the remnants of your fleet and going after Antares. And Antares is just
> too easy in my opinion. Anyone with a half decent fleet of Titans and
> Battleships can beat the Antarans. It just seems like a cheezy way to pull out
> a win while you're losing in the overall game. Of course, I could always
> choose not to go to Antares, but like I'm going to forgo a chance to win
> in an otherwise losing game, right? :P Opinions?
>
> MikeI agree. I think its more of a challenge to take on massive fleets and
conquer the galaxy than take out a few superduper ships and 1 system any
day.
John
"Kill 'Em All Let GOD Sort 'Em Out"
Michael Liu
Piemax
John and Candice Emerson wrote:
>
> Michael Liu wrote:
> >
> > Anyone else finding that beating Antares is a cheezy way to win?
> > I
> >
> conquer the galaxy than take out a few superduper ships and 1 system any
> day.
>
> John
>
seems as if your strategy
won't yield a very high score- no races conquered, not that much pop,
and, it sounds
like, a time penalty? My highest-scoring game so far was on a medium
galaxy when
I didnt go to Antares at all, but had a time bonus.
Pesonally, I finf it tedious to mop-up a huge galaxy, so I'm gald that
there is now
a way to short-circuit that process.
Pie.
Lawless
Piemax (obr...@ziplink.net) wrote:
: I'm not sure I see a problem here. Sure you can win this way, but it
: seems as if your strategy
: won't yield a very high score- no races conquered, not that much pop,
: and, it sounds
: like, a time penalty? My highest-scoring game so far was on a medium
: galaxy when
: I didnt go to Antares at all, but had a time bonus.
: Pesonally, I finf it tedious to mop-up a huge galaxy, so I'm gald that
: there is now
: a way to short-circuit that process.
Point One, to the original poster: It's cheezy, yes - but you don't -have-
to do it. 'course, in a multiplayer game your opponent could do the same,
while down and out, if they get dimensional portal first.
Two, to Piemax: Yep, it's pretty tedious, especially in this new version
because you have to deal with more micromanaging to produce the fleets to
clear out the galaxy. (Had to throw that in there<g>) And also, because
in the original game, the galactic council met -much- sooner, allowing you
to shortcut the process in a much better way than the Antaran conquest does.
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (law...@netcom.com / law...@eskimo.com)
--
-- I've got a couple of years on you baby, that's all.
-- I've found a few more places to fly and many more places to fall....
Jlp
Michael Liu (m...@houston.geoquest.slb.com) wrote:
:
: Anyone else finding that beating Antares is a cheezy way to win?
That is why you only get 250 points for doing it......
I don't consider winning a "success" condition, I should be able to win every game. I'm shooting for maximum points.
--
---<--'@ j...@albany.net @`-->---
Michael Liu
Jlp (j...@magik.albany.net) wrote:
Speaking of scores and game lengths, what kind of numbers are you guys
throwing up? I've been playing Hard with a Huge galaxy and 8 players
and my games range from 300-500 turns and score is usually around 1800
or so. I know some of you must be blowing that away, I just want to
know by how much :)
Mike
John Dassow
: Speaking of scores and game lengths, what kind of numbers are you guys
: throwing up? I've been playing Hard with a Huge galaxy and 8 players
: and my games range from 300-500 turns and score is usually around 1800
: or so. I know some of you must be blowing that away, I just want to
: know by how much :)
In the last game I played, (Avg/Huge/8) I had conquered most of the
galaxy and there was only me and the psilons left. I was at peace with
them so I decided to see how many points I could get if I maxed the
populations on all of my planets. After 550 turns, I ended it with 5600
points or so. By the end I had so much trade I flipped my income. +32800
one turn -32700 the next. I had to throw people into research just so I
wouldn't have a negative income. ;)
- John
Peter J. Stewart
John Dassow (ih...@winternet.com) wrote:
: : Speaking of scores and game lengths, what kind of numbers are you guys
: - John
I was hoping that Simtex would understand what long integers are by now,
but I guess not.
Pete
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Stewart | "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"
ste...@bae.bellcore.com | - Salvor Hardin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RICHARD KENAN
Michael Liu (m...@houston.geoquest.slb.com) wrote:
: Jlp (j...@magik.albany.net) wrote:
: : Michael Liu (m...@houston.geoquest.slb.com) wrote:
: : :
: : : Anyone else finding that beating Antares is a cheezy way to win?
: : That is why you only get 250 points for doing it......
: : I don't consider winning a "success" condition, I should be able to win every game. I'm shooting for maximum points.
: Speaking of scores and game lengths, what kind of numbers are you guys
: throwing up? I've been playing Hard with a Huge galaxy and 8 players
: and my games range from 300-500 turns and score is usually around 1800
: or so. I know some of you must be blowing that away, I just want to
: know by how much :)
Even on average, it isn't hard to get 1200-1300 points, and if you are
willing to capture rather than eradicate enemy colonies, the score will
skyrocket. 1200 for me, on average, comes from a large galaxy, and
after I decided that it would take too long to build a fleet that could
beat the Antarans, I just eradicated all enemy colonies and won that
way. Since I was telepathic, I could have captured them and won that
way, but I didn't feel like queuing in all those new colonies.
Oh, my score was from beating the Guardian, defeating 2 players, and
the standard stuff (tech, pop, captured pop, etc).
Just me.
--
Richard Kenan
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!eefacdk
Internet: eef...@prism.gatech.edu
David Ramsey
Michael Liu (m...@houston.geoquest.slb.com) wrote:
:
: Anyone else finding that beating Antares is a cheezy way to win?
Personally, I've started turning off the Antarean option when I start
now. This knocks out the Antarean random attacks but it keeps from
tempting me with a cheap out when I'm in a tough game situation. If
they aren't in the game, you can't go after them. Just turn them off
and play against the CP's. Then you'll HAVE to win the hard way.
: Mike
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Jeffrey M. George
Peter J. Stewart wrote:
>
> John Dassow (ih...@winternet.com) wrote:
> : : Speaking of scores and game lengths, what kind of numbers are you guys
> : : throwing up? I've been playing Hard with a Huge galaxy and 8 players
> : : and my games range from 300-500 turns and score is usually around 1800
> : : or so. I know some of you must be blowing that away, I just want to
> : : know by how much :)
>
> : galaxy and there was only me and the psilons left. I was at peace with
> : them so I decided to see how many points I could get if I maxed the
> : populations on all of my planets. After 550 turns, I ended it with 5600
> : points or so. By the end I had so much trade I flipped my income. +32800
> : one turn -32700 the next. I had to throw people into research just so I
> : wouldn't have a negative income. ;)
>
> : - John
>
> I was hoping that Simtex would understand what long integers are by now,
> but I guess not.
>
> Pete
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Pete Stewart | "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"
> ste...@bae.bellcore.com | - Salvor Hardin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's stupid problems like this that are the one big turn off on this
game for me. Between numerical limitations and the combat initiative
(BTW, what good is a leader that gives you a bonus to initiative
anyway?) there are some serious flaws here. I like the game a lot but
will be very pissed off if MPS/Simtex does not address these issues, and
soon. After all, they already have our money and we have only an
incomplete product. It's also annoying that we have seen no official
word from MPS/Simtex on what's happening with an update. Some game
designers/publishers here (who shall remain nameless) go out of their
way to make sure that the consumers know what's going on with their
product and to ensure them that they will take heed of the customers
complaints/suggestions and fix blatant error at first opportunity. And
if something that is perceived to be a bug is not, they will explain why
the software does what it does. Is that too much to ask for from
MPS/Simtex?
JMG
Will Dieterich
I just finished a where there was probably no possible way for me to kill
off the last remaining race, they had far too much technology
and 40+ death stars vers. my 10. So I just easily killed off the antares and
won.
A patch should be released that gives the antares a missle base and beam defense
on thier planet. Also instead of winning the game for winning against
antares instead you should get the end score points, get a large amount of
money, maybe some technology you don't have, and the fun items
Raise your rating with the other races so that you are no longer at war, or
already friendly races are wanting to make every type of treaty they can with
you. Also give the you 5 or 6 points to spend with evolutionary mutations,
this would allow you to pick Trans Dimensional or Subterranean.
Theses would make taking Antares worth taking but would not total end the game.
--
William Dieterich Call Sign: KD4LZE Email: wdie...@rmi.net
"As the flowers are all made sweeter by the sunshine and the dew, so this
old world is made better by the lives of folks like you" inscription on the
tombstone of Bonnie Parker of Bonnie and Clyde fame.
Peter J. Stewart
Jeffrey M. George (j.ge...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: It's stupid problems like this that are the one big turn off on this
: game for me. Between numerical limitations and the combat initiative
: (BTW, what good is a leader that gives you a bonus to initiative
: anyway?) there are some serious flaws here. I like the game a lot but
: will be very pissed off if MPS/Simtex does not address these issues, and
: soon. After all, they already have our money and we have only an
: incomplete product. It's also annoying that we have seen no official
: word from MPS/Simtex on what's happening with an update. Some game
: designers/publishers here (who shall remain nameless) go out of their
: way to make sure that the consumers know what's going on with their
: product and to ensure them that they will take heed of the customers
: complaints/suggestions and fix blatant error at first opportunity. And
: if something that is perceived to be a bug is not, they will explain why
: the software does what it does. Is that too much to ask for from
: MPS/Simtex?
: JMG
I agree that there are bugs here that need addressing, but having been
working in software development and testing for about 6 years now, I know that
unless a bug report from the field indicates that a problem is causing the
software to completely break, meaning it doesn't run at all, we have to
prioritize the bugfix along with the hundreds of other tasks that we're
doing at the same time. I am quite sure that Simtex is aware of the bugs
in the software and are going to come out with more patches; this is what
they have done in the past for other games. Give them some time to catch
their collective breath; it sounds like they put a LOT of effort into getting
this thing out the door; I'm no stranger to that kind of pressure here at
work, so I know what it means to need a short breather first.
Brian Wade
I kind of like this as an option. The reason is I usually treat my allies
honorably. In my last game it came down to me and and my allies the
Psilons. In MOO, to win I would have had to attack my long term allies and
clobber them. Now I just have to take out the Antarans. I know that this
is a weakness, but I try to give the computer players a break.
James Winsor
wdie...@rmi.net (Will Dieterich) wrote:
>I just finished a where there was probably no possible way for me to kill
>off the last remaining race, they had far too much technology
>and 40+ death stars vers. my 10. So I just easily killed off the antares and
>won.
>A patch should be released that gives the antares a missle base and beam defense
>on thier planet. Also instead of winning the game for winning against
>antares instead you should get the end score points, get a large amount of
>money, maybe some technology you don't have, and the fun items
>Raise your rating with the other races so that you are no longer at war, or
>already friendly races are wanting to make every type of treaty they can with
>you. Also give the you 5 or 6 points to spend with evolutionary mutations,
>this would allow you to pick Trans Dimensional or Subterranean.
>Theses would make taking Antares worth taking but would not total end the game.
Yeah I totally agree. The Anterans are disappointing wimps. In
addition to what you suggest above, I'd make Anteran raids more
powerful. All they do now is send out a handful of frigates and
destroyers (I've never seen bigger than a destroyers out on a raid)
which my planetary defenses can usually handle all by themselves.
The Anterans should start sending out their Harbingers on their
raids...now THAT would make life more interesting! :)
Jim
Lee Cole
In article <58d2fg$n...@natasha.rmii.com>, wdie...@rmi.net says...
>
>I just finished a where there was probably no possible way for me to kill
>off the last remaining race, they had far too much technology
>and 40+ death stars vers. my 10. So I just easily killed off the antares and
>won.
>A patch should be released that gives the antares a missle base and beam
defense
>on thier planet. Also instead of winning the game for winning against
>antares instead you should get the end score points, get a large amount of
>money, maybe some technology you don't have, and the fun items
>Raise your rating with the other races so that you are no longer at war, or
>already friendly races are wanting to make every type of treaty they can with
>you. Also give the you 5 or 6 points to spend with evolutionary mutations,
>this would allow you to pick Trans Dimensional or Subterranean.
>Theses would make taking Antares worth taking but would not total end the
game.
I agree. However, I don't find it a cakewalk to defeat the Antareans. I'll
bet most people (myself included) always save the game before attacking, and
if you lose, you restore the saved game. Of course, doing this, you risk
nothing. Of course, I justify this as 'learning' the game.
--
Lee Cole Sometimes I sits and thinks,
lee...@bigfoot.com and sometimes I just sit.
http://www.ipass.net/~leecole/
John Alcock
lee...@bigfoot.com (Lee Cole) wrote:
If that's learning then I'm going to be learning the game for a long
time <g>.
I agree that the Antareans should be beefed up or you shouldn't be
able to win that way. It is possible to pull a dead lost game out of
the fire by going and wasting them.
The CP's are IMPOSSIBLE to beat at Impossible, at least I have found
them so. Anybody beat the CP's at Impossible?
David H. Lee
John Alcock (jal...@ct1.nai.net) wrote:
: lee...@bigfoot.com (Lee Cole) wrote:
: I agree that the Antareans should be beefed up or you shouldn't be
: able to win that way. It is possible to pull a dead lost game out of
: the fire by going and wasting them.
: The CP's are IMPOSSIBLE to beat at Impossible, at least I have found
: them so. Anybody beat the CP's at Impossible?
It can be done, but you really have to cheese the AI.
The CP's will get obscenely ahead of you in everything early on.
The secret is to take a Subterranean/Creative race and just control
2-3 GOOD systems, and HOLD them. Try to get non-aggression pacts, etc.
If you can last until you finish the research tree, then you go
out with loaded cruisers and battleships and use that stellar converter
against the CP's planets.
nomor...@aol.com
WEll, I have just played my second game of MAster of Orion2. I played it
on impossible level and easily beat the game in 281 turns or 28 years and
1 turn.
I had a Creative, Democratic, SubTerranena, Large world, -10% spying, -10%
ground attack, low-g world. I killed 3 races, had lamost all the techs
researched(6 out of 8 categories next tech was hyper-techs), and won by
killing the antareans. I was really hoping for more of a challenge, but
the computer opponents never really attacked in force, and were for the
most part, pretty wimpy. AI could have been way better IMO.
Matt McLeod
jwi...@earthlink.net (James Winsor) writes:
>wdie...@rmi.net (Will Dieterich) wrote:
>>I just finished a where there was probably no possible way for me to kill
>>off the last remaining race, they had far too much technology
>>and 40+ death stars vers. my 10. So I just easily killed off the antares and
>>won.
>>A patch should be released that gives the antares a missle base and beam defense
>>on thier planet. Also instead of winning the game for winning against
>>antares instead you should get the end score points, get a large amount of
>>money, maybe some technology you don't have, and the fun items
>>Raise your rating with the other races so that you are no longer at war, or
>>already friendly races are wanting to make every type of treaty they can with
>>you. Also give the you 5 or 6 points to spend with evolutionary mutations,
>>this would allow you to pick Trans Dimensional or Subterranean.
>>Theses would make taking Antares worth taking but would not total end the game.
>Yeah I totally agree. The Anterans are disappointing wimps. In
>addition to what you suggest above, I'd make Anteran raids more
>powerful. All they do now is send out a handful of frigates and
>destroyers (I've never seen bigger than a destroyers out on a raid)
>which my planetary defenses can usually handle all by themselves.
>The Anterans should start sending out their Harbingers on their
>raids...now THAT would make life more interesting! :)
In my last game, I had several Antaran fleets containing at least one Titan,
2 Battleships, and a bunch of smaller ships, attacking me all over the
place.
But I was rather disappointed by the Antaran defenses - all it takes is a
bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters, and they're mincemeat.
--
Matt McLeod "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses."
System Administrator - Sir Humphrey Appleby
Hunter Network Association KDE: http://www.zws.com/kde/
Werner Arend
On 9 Dec 1996, Matt McLeod wrote:
> But I was rather disappointed by the Antaran defenses - all it takes is a
> bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters, and they're mincemeat.
JUST a bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters? Oh, is there anything
else you could wish for? If you couldn't get them with Stellar Converters,
would there be any way to defeat them at all? Just a question...
Werner
BTW: Is there any way to get at that "Quantum Detonator" tech that Loknar
has on his ship?
Andrew D. Myers
[e-mailed and posted]
Werner Arend <kii...@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:
>BTW: Is there any way to get at that "Quantum Detonator" tech that Loknar
>has on his ship?
Yup, I've gotten it from captured Antaran ships before. It does two things:
1. If a Quantum-Detonator-equipped ship is captured, it has a 50% chance of
exploding immediately.
2. If a QD-equipped ship explodes, it the explosion is three times as
powerful as normal.
This is, of course, assuming I'm remembering this correctly :)
--
Andrew D. Myers
andrew...@pobox.com
John Alcock
nomor...@aol.com wrote:
No, I meant winning Impossible by defeating all your CP neighbors,
instead of winning the easy way by beating the Antareans.
As far as the CP never attacking in force, well, they sure managed to
do it in my game. The Mrrshan in particular were all over me when I
decided to go for the easy win, nuking 2 or 3 planets a turn.
I suggest you may have been lucky, try again :) Also, what size
universe was it and how many opponents?
I don't know, I guess you could just be really good at these games. I
am certainly not finding the CP's "wimpy" at upper difficulty levels.
--
John Alcock
work: jal...@watson.ibm.com
home: jal...@ct1.nai.net
John Alcock
ih...@winternet.com (John Dassow) wrote:
>: Speaking of scores and game lengths, what kind of numbers are you guys
>: throwing up? I've been playing Hard with a Huge galaxy and 8 players
>: and my games range from 300-500 turns and score is usually around 1800
>: or so. I know some of you must be blowing that away, I just want to
>: know by how much :)
> In the last game I played, (Avg/Huge/8) I had conquered most of the
>galaxy and there was only me and the psilons left. I was at peace with
>them so I decided to see how many points I could get if I maxed the
>populations on all of my planets. After 550 turns, I ended it with 5600
>points or so. By the end I had so much trade I flipped my income. +32800
>one turn -32700 the next. I had to throw people into research just so I
>wouldn't have a negative income. ;)
>- John
It disturbs me a little that you were able to get such a high score at
Average level, since I'm finding 1800 to be about right for a
quick-win type game at Hard. It suggests to me that Simtex didn't
balance things too well.
I'm also wondering about the difference in points between, say, a win
at Impossible and a win at Hard with a 120% race. Can anybody shed
any light there?
IronParrot Jiim
Werner Arend <kii...@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> did say:
>
>
>On 9 Dec 1996, Matt McLeod wrote:
>
>> But I was rather disappointed by the Antaran defenses - all it takes is a
>> bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters, and they're mincemeat.
>
>JUST a bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters? Oh, is there anything
>else you could wish for? If you couldn't get them with Stellar Converters,
>would there be any way to defeat them at all? Just a question...
>
>Werner
>
>BTW: Is there any way to get at that "Quantum Detonator" tech that Loknar
>has on his ship?
>
>
I captured an Antaran ship and got ahold of the tech. for it.
Hugh A. Caldwell
Will Dieterich <wdie...@rmi.net> wrote in article
<58d2fg$n...@natasha.rmii.com>...
<snipped good ideas on alter Antaren end game>
>
Allowing you to build a transdimensional colony that could only be
attacked
through a portal would also be nice.
nomor...@aol.com
Yeah, I think SimTex really messed up the scoring in MOO2. You do not get
any more points for beating the game on say averagevs impossible. I beat
the game on average in 320 or so turns and had all the techs and had
killed all the races, plus had alot of population. I got a score of 2500
or so. Than I played a game on Impossibel(all these games were 8
opponents/huge), and beat it in 281 turns, killing 3 races, killing
antarens, ect. and my score was 1900 or so. How lame, you DO not get
rewarded for playing harder games in the scoring.
Roberto Ullfig
"IronParrot" Jiim <wil...@softdisk.NOSPAM.com> wrote in article
<32ac6b97...@news.softdisk.com>...
The techs you get from Orion are random. I've usually gotten the QD after
killing the Guardian.
>
Matt McLeod
>> But I was rather disappointed by the Antaran defenses - all it takes is a
>> bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters, and they're mincemeat.
>JUST a bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters? Oh, is there anything
>else you could wish for? If you couldn't get them with Stellar Converters,
>would there be any way to defeat them at all? Just a question...
They could at least have an SC or two of their own... Some more (large)
ships. Planetary defences. It'd be nice if they had some ships left after
the first round.
They should either be a lot harder to beat, or it shouldn't end the game.
Some extra techs, conquest of the Antares system (so you can colonize it),
maybe the ability to jump into "realspace" at whatever point you like (just
like the Antarans).
Quite frankly, I've had larger Antaran fleets attack my colonies than the
one defending Antares. Which just plain silly for a game-winning option.
Kirati Laisathit
In article <32b04785....@news.macatawa.org>,
Andrew D. Myers <andrew...@pobox.com> wrote:
>[e-mailed and posted]
>>BTW: Is there any way to get at that "Quantum Detonator" tech that Loknar
>>has on his ship?
>
>Yup, I've gotten it from captured Antaran ships before. It does two things:
[snip]
Well I have to wonder why would you want to put QD on your ship, aside
from the fact that it reduces the chance of having your ship captured by
the enemy.
Later...
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kirati/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
grundman
First of all, LIGHTEN UP dude! Good Lord, you sound like the guy that
yells at the checker at the supermarket because the price of Bacon is so
high, even thought they have nothing to do with the price! Now, back to
your post . . .
Simtex has an excellent reputation for listening to customers
feedback and adjusting gameplay balance HUGELY and quickly in future
patches (behold Master of Magic). For God's sake, its the freakin
holidays, they deserve a small break at least until January, and I for
one think the gentlemen/ladies deserve it.
I would suggest that during the VERY short lull for the things you've
so impatiently DEMANDED, you spend the time wisely by delicately pulling
that potato chip outta your ass thats obviously irritating you, and
relaxing.
Relax.
relax.
Ohmmmm . . .
There now. Isn't that better? :)
Grundman
--
'I'm just the same as you, I just do the best I can;
That's the ONLY answer . . . for an Ordinary Man'
Rik Emmett, Triumph
Sean Matheis
On 9 Dec 96 04:55:50 GMT, ma...@praetor.hna.com.au (Matt McLeod) wrote:
>jwi...@earthlink.net (James Winsor) writes:
>
>>wdie...@rmi.net (Will Dieterich) wrote:
>
>>>Yeah I totally agree. The Anterans are disappointing wimps. In
>>addition to what you suggest above, I'd make Anteran raids more
>>powerful. All they do now is send out a handful of frigates and
>>destroyers (I've never seen bigger than a destroyers out on a raid)
>>which my planetary defenses can usually handle all by themselves.
>
>>The Anterans should start sending out their Harbingers on their
>>raids...now THAT would make life more interesting! :)
>
>In my last game, I had several Antaran fleets containing at least one Titan,
>2 Battleships, and a bunch of smaller ships, attacking me all over the
>place.
>
>But I was rather disappointed by the Antaran defenses - all it takes is a
>bunch of Doom Stars with Stellar Converters, and they're mincemeat.
>--
>Matt McLeod "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses."
>System Administrator - Sir Humphrey Appleby
>Hunter Network Association KDE: http://www.zws.com/kde/
I was able to take on Antares one my first try, using nothing but
Titans & battleships (and 2 doom stars for good measure). Best weapon
I had was Hv Phasors (and death ray on the avenger, for the 2 turns it
lasterd). Something like 35 ships in the fleet, and antares was
mine. Granted, 16 hv phasors/ship is pretty powerful.
beow...@aol.com
In article <58bbvg$9...@uuneo.neosoft.com>, dra...@neosoft.com (David
Ramsey) writes:
>Personally, I've started turning off the Antarean option when I start
>now. This knocks out the Antarean random attacks but it keeps from
>tempting me with a cheap out when I'm in a tough game situation. If
>they aren't in the game, you can't go after them. Just turn them off
>and play against the CP's. Then you'll HAVE to win the hard way.
I believe you may be mistaken here. By turning off the "Antarans Attack"
option at the beginning of the game, you only put a stop to their
transdimensional raids. They're still there, and you can still build a
portal and attack Antares.
Very respectfully,
Beowulf92
"If that fellow wants a fight, we won't disappoint him." Captain Isaac
Hull, U.S.S. Constitution, 1811.
RICHARD KENAN
Kirati Laisathit (kir...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: In article <32b04785....@news.macatawa.org>,
: >>BTW: Is there any way to get at that "Quantum Detonator" tech that Loknar
: >>has on his ship?
: >
: >Yup, I've gotten it from captured Antaran ships before. It does two things:
: [snip]
: Well I have to wonder why would you want to put QD on your ship, aside
: from the fact that it reduces the chance of having your ship captured by
: the enemy.
Kamikaze fleets! 100+ frigates with augmented engines, fast missile
racks, 2 rack missiles, and Quantum Detonators. No shields, nothing
else, just zillions of missiles that go boom in the first couple of
rounds, then zillions of ships that go boom in the later rounds. No,
I don't think it'd do all that well, but it's an interesting idea.
RICHARD KENAN
beow...@aol.com wrote:
: In article <58bbvg$9...@uuneo.neosoft.com>, dra...@neosoft.com (David
: Ramsey) writes:
: >Personally, I've started turning off the Antarean option when I start
: >now. This knocks out the Antarean random attacks but it keeps from
: >tempting me with a cheap out when I'm in a tough game situation. If
: >they aren't in the game, you can't go after them. Just turn them off
: >and play against the CP's. Then you'll HAVE to win the hard way.
: I believe you may be mistaken here. By turning off the "Antarans Attack"
: option at the beginning of the game, you only put a stop to their
: transdimensional raids. They're still there, and you can still build a
: portal and attack Antares.
Don't their raiding parties get pulled from their home fleet? If so,
this could make for a *REALLY* nasty Antaran home fleet, with about
a zillion ships in it. Not the sort of thing you want to see at the
other end of your dimensional portal.
Werner Arend
On 10 Dec 1996, Matt McLeod wrote:
> Quite frankly, I've had larger Antaran fleets attack my colonies than the
> one defending Antares. Which just plain silly for a game-winning option.
You had? I've never met any ship bigger than a Cruiser in an invading
Antaran fleet, but since I took these out easily I decided to have a
look at their homeworld... aargh, this was wrong! They had 7 Battleships
and a Titan, and my 4 Titans and 8 Battleships got blasted in two turns!
Never even had a chance to retreat...
Werner
Jim Vieira
> : I believe you may be mistaken here. By turning off the "Antarans Attack"
> : option at the beginning of the game, you only put a stop to their
> : transdimensional raids. They're still there, and you can still build a
> : portal and attack Antares.
Are you sure of this? I posted a message two days after the game
came out called 'Moo2:Manual Contradiction' in which I posted about
this.
Moo2 manual, page 152: (in the 'Winning' section)
"An alternate method is to seek out and defeat the Antaran home fleet.
This involves traveling to the Antaran home world...." (lil' snip)
"(This strategy is not available if you disabled Antaran Attacks when
settting up your game)"
ok, so turning off attacks means no Antaran Attacks and no Antaran
homeworld right?
BUT in the 'Prima's Strategies for Master of Orion II' (NOT the strategy
guide, but the little book that came with the game) on page 5, under
the heading 'Those pesky Antarans':
"Unless you have a reliable method for dealing with Antaran attacks
(and if that were the case, why would you be reading this?), turn
them off. If you build a Dimensional Gate, they're still out there.
Turning off attacks just stops them from breaking into the galaxy
and stomping on you"
So what I wanna know is, WHICH ONE IS IT!? :) I have been playing with
attacks on and haven't taken the time to turn them OFF and see if it
is still possible to get to their homeworld.
---
Jim Vieira
whip...@axisnet.net
Matt McLeod
se...@internal.mcafee.com (Sean Matheis) writes:
>I was able to take on Antares one my first try, using nothing but
>Titans & battleships (and 2 doom stars for good measure). Best weapon
>I had was Hv Phasors (and death ray on the avenger, for the 2 turns it
>lasterd). Something like 35 ships in the fleet, and antares was
>mine. Granted, 16 hv phasors/ship is pretty powerful.
I have since clobbered Antares with my beloved Assault Cruisers. Cruisers
crammed with assault shuttles - not a single shot fired... :-)
Karl Davis
In article <58lec4$r...@catapult.gatech.edu>, eef...@acmez.gatech.edu says...
>
>beow...@aol.com wrote:
>: In article <58bbvg$9...@uuneo.neosoft.com>, dra...@neosoft.com (David
>: Ramsey) writes:
>
>: >Personally, I've started turning off the Antarean option when I start
>: >now. This knocks out the Antarean random attacks but it keeps from
>: >tempting me with a cheap out when I'm in a tough game situation. If
>: >they aren't in the game, you can't go after them. Just turn them off
>: >and play against the CP's. Then you'll HAVE to win the hard way.
>
>: option at the beginning of the game, you only put a stop to their
>: transdimensional raids. They're still there, and you can still build a
>: portal and attack Antares.
>
>this could make for a *REALLY* nasty Antaran home fleet, with about
>a zillion ships in it. Not the sort of thing you want to see at the
>other end of your dimensional portal.
>
but 2 frigates and fortress, before losing. So next turn I sent in some more
ships to clean up and they had a new fleet. It wasn't as strong as the first
but they couldn't have built 5 ships in 1 turn!
Later
Doug Jacobs
Karl Davis (da...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu) wrote:
: I don't think they have to follow the rules. I went in once and wiped out all
: but 2 frigates and fortress, before losing. So next turn I sent in some more
: ships to clean up and they had a new fleet. It wasn't as strong as the first
: but they couldn't have built 5 ships in 1 turn!
They're the Antareans...what do you expect? If they have transdimensional
portals, why not transdimensional banks from which to pour forth the
funds to build a fleet a turn?
(frankly, I feel the Antarean's fleet needs to be at least 5x bigger...
I've fought bigger, nastier fleets in my own galaxy.)
Karl Davis
In article <58ntg9$a...@samba.rahul.net>, dja...@rahul.net says...
raid ships came out of their home defense fleet. Making it easier to attack
them after a raid. I'd like to know if this is true. I doubt it.
Later.
Matt McLeod
Werner Arend <kii...@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> writes:
I don't attack Antares any more at all, but on the couple of occasions I
did, I did leave it pretty late in the game (so their raiding fleets had
time to build up a bit).
John Alcock
da...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Karl Davis) wrote:
>Later.
That's what the strategy guide says, that raiders come out of the home
fleet.
But given some of the other inaccurate information I've seen in the
s.g., I would take that with a very large grain of salt.
Kia
Matt McLeod wrote:
>
> Werner Arend <kii...@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> writes:
>
> >On 10 Dec 1996, Matt McLeod wrote:
>
> >> Quite frankly, I've had larger Antaran fleets attack my colonies than the
> >> one defending Antares. Which just plain silly for a game-winning option.
I've seen this problem, I was getting whomped by the psilons in one
game, they had more tech bigger fleet and no way I could defeat them.
The only way I was staying alive is I had a Non-agression pact and I hit
ignore so they coudn't declare war. If the CP can't declare war it can't
attack. It got to the point of only 3 races left in the game me,
kalckon and psilon. I had Orion and realized if a vote started i would
lose. so I attacked antares and blew them up with 4 doomstars. I won the
game. It seems a little cheezy that a game that I was sure to lose I won
because i attacked antares.
Ken
Btw has anyone seen the CP attack antares?Also does that mean
multiplayer games are only a race to attack Antares. There is no way to
tell if another player is ready to go for it and no way to stop him. I
have not tried multiplayer. Need advice from someone who has.
>
Barry Gaudet
Kia (K...@cris.com) wrote:
: Btw has anyone seen the CP attack antares?Also does that mean
: multiplayer games are only a race to attack Antares. There is no way to
: tell if another player is ready to go for it and no way to stop him. I
: have not tried multiplayer. Need advice from someone who has.
Havent played it mplayer but I would assume you could still turn the
'antares' switch to off at game start.
Walter
Kia <K...@cris.com> wrote:
>I've seen this problem, I was getting whomped by the psilons in one
>game, they had more tech bigger fleet and no way I could defeat them.
>The only way I was staying alive is I had a Non-agression pact and I hit
>ignore so they coudn't declare war. If the CP can't declare war it can't
>attack. It got to the point of only 3 races left in the game me,
Hum. Actually, I thought that declarations of war bypassed 'ignores'.
Doesn't it say so somewhere in the manual or something?
Anyway, generally speaking, the Psilons tend to be a very peaceful
race.
Walter
eef...@acmez.gatech.edu (RICHARD KENAN) wrote:
>Kamikaze fleets! 100+ frigates with augmented engines, fast missile
>racks, 2 rack missiles, and Quantum Detonators. No shields, nothing
>else, just zillions of missiles that go boom in the first couple of
>rounds, then zillions of ships that go boom in the later rounds. No,
>I don't think it'd do all that well, but it's an interesting idea.
Actually, speaking of self-destruct devices, I managed to win one
battle at the early stages by using the self-destruct button.
I had attacked the Silicoid home planet with my missile cruiser and my
remaining scout. (the other had encountered a Space Hydra earlier :)
The Missile cruiser shot it's load of missiles, damaging the starbase
severely but leaving it intact. It was nearing destruction from the
constant Starbase missile fire.
So I sent the little Scout in right next to the Starbase, fired it's
laser once, and hit the self-destruct! Boom! One destroyed Starbase.
Next turn, my telepaths told the Silicoids to join me and rule the
galaxy and they did. End of the Silicoids. :)
Anyway, I think the 'self-destruct' is probably the only thing Scouts
are good for after the first 50 turns or so.
DarkKnight
Kia wrote:
>
> I've seen this problem, I was getting whomped by the psilons in one
> game, they had more tech bigger fleet and no way I could defeat them.
> The only way I was staying alive is I had a Non-agression pact and I hit
> ignore so they coudn't declare war. If the CP can't declare war it can't
> attack. It got to the point of only 3 races left in the game me,
> lose. so I attacked antares and blew them up with 4 doomstars. I won the
> game. It seems a little cheezy that a game that I was sure to lose I won
> because i attacked antares.
Is this true? Can you really hit ignore to stop them from declaring war? If so this is a major
oversight!
Joe
> > I've seen this problem, I was getting whomped by the psilons in one
> > game, they had more tech bigger fleet and no way I could defeat them.
> > The only way I was staying alive is I had a Non-agression pact and I hit
> > ignore so they coudn't declare war.
>
> oversight!
Nope, it just ain't true!
Joe.
Karl Davis
In article <58qkg3$8...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>, bga...@uoguelph.ca says...
everyone could go after them. That is if other races portals appear on the
overview screen.
John Mueller
>> Btw has anyone seen the CP attack antares?Also does that mean
multiplayer games are only a race to attack Antares. There is no way to
tell if another player is ready to go for it and no way to stop him. I
have not tried multiplayer. Need advice from someone who has. <<
I'd simply keep the Antares out if I were playing a multiplayer game.
It really is a cheesy way to win and there isn't any reason to go that
route when playing other humans. I know that I'd be screaming foul if I
were about to win the game and someone stole my thunder using such a
despicable method.
John Mueller
John Mueller
>> Anyway, I think the 'self-destruct' is probably the only thing Scouts
are good for after the first 50 turns or so. <<
I haven't tried self-destruct yet, but it sounds pretty effective. Just
how big a bang do you get? It would be nice to think that if I had a
ship that was pretty well wiped out during a battle, it could make one
last stand using self-destruct to save several other ships.
John Mueller
Kagetora
In article <58ntg9$a...@samba.rahul.net>, Doug Jacobs <dja...@rahul.net> wrote:
>Karl Davis (da...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu) wrote:
>
>: I don't think they have to follow the rules. I went in once and wiped out all
>: but 2 frigates and fortress, before losing. So next turn I sent in some more
>: ships to clean up and they had a new fleet. It wasn't as strong as the first
>: but they couldn't have built 5 ships in 1 turn!
>
>They're the Antareans...what do you expect? If they have transdimensional
>portals, why not transdimensional banks from which to pour forth the
>funds to build a fleet a turn?
>
>(frankly, I feel the Antarean's fleet needs to be at least 5x bigger...
>I've fought bigger, nastier fleets in my own galaxy.)
I think the Antaran fleet should have a minimum size, gaged up for how strong
your own attack fleet is so as to always provide a challenge...even at the
highest, all-tech tiers. In otherwords...if I attack with a lighter fleet,
there is a lighter defense of the base, but one bigenough to give me a hard
time winning (there should be a minimum set-up, though, so some idiot who just
slaps laser cannons on frigates doesn't win)...or if I attack with a
screen-full of Doom Stars decked out with Stellar Converters, Death Rays, and
Proton Torps (the only missle/torp worth a damn) that I face a comparably
powerful Antaran force, if not stronger....the Antarans should be a hard fight,
not some galactic pushover. Like the previous poster said, I've had harder
times against Human and Psilon mega-fleets (Huge galaxy, impossible level) in
the same game that I took out the Antarans in a couple of turns.
"Power is in tearing human minds to | Jon Hickman
pieces and putting them together again | Oni Dragon -=={UDIC}==-
in forms of our own choosing." - _1984_ | Kage...@pernet.net
James Winsor
les...@singnet.com.sg (Walter) wrote:
>Actually, speaking of self-destruct devices, I managed to win one
>battle at the early stages by using the self-destruct button.
>I had attacked the Silicoid home planet with my missile cruiser and my
>remaining scout. (the other had encountered a Space Hydra earlier :)
>The Missile cruiser shot it's load of missiles, damaging the starbase
>severely but leaving it intact. It was nearing destruction from the
>constant Starbase missile fire.
>So I sent the little Scout in right next to the Starbase, fired it's
>laser once, and hit the self-destruct! Boom! One destroyed Starbase.
>Next turn, my telepaths told the Silicoids to join me and rule the
>galaxy and they did. End of the Silicoids. :)
>Anyway, I think the 'self-destruct' is probably the only thing Scouts
>are good for after the first 50 turns or so.
One game, I was attacked by an Ion Pulse armed fleet, which turned my
Starbase into an (apparantly) useless hulk - all shields, weapons and
specials knocked out, but structure untouched.
But then, a hoard of missles from the enemy fleet came in the
direction of the planet, and ended the turn parked next to the
Starbase. Well, you can guess what happened - my brave Starbase
commander hit the self-destruct button, and saved the planet from over
200 inbound missles! Hooray! His brave action allowed my missle base
to take out two more of his ships before being overwhelmed! :)
Jim
James Winsor
Joe <jkr...@bbn.com> wrote:
Hmmm....Actually I think it MAY be true to a certain extent!
I do not think the CP has to have an audience to declare war on you
per se. For example, I remember at least one game where my Repulsive
Silicoid neighbors just parked a fleet in my home system, and
proceeded to blast away. The turn before we were at "NO TREATY", and
then, when I checked that turn, we were at "WAR". No attempts to
communicate with me beforehand were made, so a diplomatic meeting does
not HAVE to occur, apparantly.
However, in my last Hard game I tried a little experiment. I was the
Gnolams, and the Darloks were in the game, and all my treaty relations
were destroyed by those damnable spy frameups, and I was at war with
the entire galaxy EXCEPT for the Mrrshans. The Mrrshans did falsely
accuse me of spying once, but I managed to somehow avoid having them
declare war, and reinstated trade, tech and NA pacts with them
eventually.
However, since the game was a typical framefest, I knew that would not
last long. So, I set the Mrrshans to IGNORE to see what would happen.
And you know what? It seems I was now IMMUNE to frameups! 200 turns
went by, and the whole rest of the game the Mrrshans and I were happy,
hunky-dory treaty partners! That is just TOO strange an occurance to
be mere coincidence. So, while IGNORE may not stop declarations of war
per se, it MAY be able to stop deterioration of your diplomatic
standing due to events such as framing - in other words, you can
"freeze" your friendly standing by hitting IGNORE. QUITE a useful
feature!
I'll experiment a bit more with this in an Impossible game to see if
this is really true or not.
Jim
Danno
John Mueller wrote:
>
> >> Anyway, I think the 'self-destruct' is probably the only thing Scouts
> are good for after the first 50 turns or so. <<
>
> how big a bang do you get? It would be nice to think that if I had a
> ship that was pretty well wiped out during a battle, it could make one
> last stand using self-destruct to save several other ships.
>
> John Mueller
Self-destructing frigates and destroyers in FRONT of a nasty is a great way
to weaken it's shields enough where the shields FAIL on the side facing the
explosion. I usually build something fast enough to get in an enemy ship's
face, then as the enemy fires off missiles, fighters, shuttles, etc, I self
destruct my ship, taking the launched subsystems AND the enemy ships forward
shield out. THEN, I follow up with my ranged attacks, funneling the damage
throught the now-depleted front shields. If and when you get the quantum
detonator (or whatever that thing is called) you destruction damage is TRIPLED
and REALLY lays waste just about every shield and launched subsystem within
5 or 6 squares distance.
Of course, using this strategy will eventually fail due to a lack of usable
kamikazes, but against two or three bad guys or a nasty creature, this works
like a charm. I haven't tried it against the Guardian, but I assume I'll try
that tonight. <G>
Shheesh.. ANOTHER stay-up-till-4am-playing-this-game evening.
Danno
Doug Jacobs
John Mueller (JMue...@pacbell.net) wrote:
: >> Anyway, I think the 'self-destruct' is probably the only thing Scouts
: are good for after the first 50 turns or so. <<
: I haven't tried self-destruct yet, but it sounds pretty effective. Just
: how big a bang do you get? It would be nice to think that if I had a
: ship that was pretty well wiped out during a battle, it could make one
: last stand using self-destruct to save several other ships.
A favorite tactic to use against those large computer fleets is to make
a fleet of ships with transports & troop pods. Get up near a ship, take
down its shields (if neccessary) and board it. You'll have full use of
its weapons (though not its engines :( so fire of it's load, then self
destruct it. Since fleets always start in those amusing block formations,
between the 'friendly fire' and self destructing ships, there won't be
much left of the computer's fleet.
(of course, this is due to the goofy human player goes first rule...maybe
it'll be fixed and I'll have the computer actually capture one of my ships
for once...)
John Lansford
Doug Jacobs <dja...@rahul.net> wrote:
>A favorite tactic to use against those large computer fleets is to make
>a fleet of ships with transports & troop pods. Get up near a ship, take
>down its shields (if neccessary) and board it. You'll have full use of
>its weapons (though not its engines :( so fire of it's load, then self
>destruct it.
You can only use the ship in that combat if you have a psionic race.
Everyone else has to haul off the ship before they can use it in
combat later.
John Lansford
John Mueller
>> Of course, using this strategy will eventually fail due to a lack of usable
kamikazes, but against two or three bad guys or a nasty creature, this
works
like a charm. I haven't tried it against the Guardian, but I assume
I'll try
that tonight. <G> <<
Using self destruct against the Guardian was one of the first thoughts I
had since I usually don't have an overabundance of firepower available
during my attempt to kill it.
John Mueller
John Mueller
>> A favorite tactic to use against those large computer fleets is to make
a fleet of ships with transports & troop pods. Get up near a ship, take
its weapons (though not its engines :( so fire of it's load, then self
formations,
between the 'friendly fire' and self destructing ships, there won't be
much left of the computer's fleet. <<
I usually don't keep extra troops on my ships anymore. Keeping the
space available for beam weapons seems to make more sense to me. That
way you can clobber the CP fleet without getting too close.
John Mueller
John Mueller
Sounds like I'm ahead then with my current strategy. I usually try to
kill everything in sight using beam weapons. That way I don't have to
worry about how many command points I still have or whether the space I
used for troops could have been better used for weapons.
John Mueller
John Lansford wrote:
>
> Doug Jacobs <dja...@rahul.net> wrote:
>
> >A favorite tactic to use against those large computer fleets is to make
> >a fleet of ships with transports & troop pods. Get up near a ship, take
> >down its shields (if neccessary) and board it. You'll have full use of
> >its weapons (though not its engines :( so fire of it's load, then self
> >destruct it.
>
Mats Olsson
In article <58emlu$m...@a3bsrv.nai.net>,
John Alcock <jal...@ct1.nai.net> wrote:
>lee...@bigfoot.com (Lee Cole) wrote:
>The CP's are IMPOSSIBLE to beat at Impossible, at least I have found
>them so. Anybody beat the CP's at Impossible?
Yep. Impossible/Large/avg/avg, as Alkara and Meklar, so far. The last
battle was a bit... difficult. My 60 Doom stars vs his 90 Doomstars + 118 Titans + 90 Battleships... but the computer player can't design ships worth a damn.
/Mats