BOTF Questions
Brian Robinson
the tutorials this morning and find that they didn't give me a
particularly deep uderstanding of the game. My biggest problem now is
that I can't figure out how to colonize systems with minor races. With
the many setting, it seems like half the systems have minor races but I
don't get the option to colonize. It looks like I should be able to
colonize because I get a listing of what buildings they'll let me
construct. I tried attacking one but they completely trashed me. I sent
three troop transports after one of them and they destroyed them all.
Diplomacy is also weird. At different times I can't seem to do
all of the options for some of the races, but I haven't figured out why
yet. I remember a while back reading that the diplomacy was basically
giving money repeatedly, but I don't know how it works yet.
--
Brian Robinson
brob...@ist.ucf.edu
Institute for Simulation and Training
Rich Goranson
>that I can't figure out how to colonize systems with minor races.
Easy...you can't.
>I remember a while back reading that the diplomacy was basically
>giving money repeatedly, but I don't know how it works yet.
That's pretty much it.
Rich Goranson (Lord Stephan Calvert deGrey)
Buffalo, NY (Barony of the Rhydderich Hael, Æthelmearc)
Diplomacy addict, F&E guru, Expos fan and medieval re-creationist
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - Henry
II
Ed Rutherford
Brian Robinson <brob...@figment.ist.ucf.edu> wrote in message
news:8iivn...@news2.newsguy.com...
> My biggest problem now is
> that I can't figure out how to colonize systems with minor races.
Colonizing is only used when someone else isn't there (on the planet). The
only way to get control of the planet with the minor race is to "bribe" them
into joining you -- this will take a good amount of money but will work
eventually. Actually another way to get control of a system that has a
minor race on it is to go to war with that race and TAKE the planet from
them. If possible just try to "bribe" them -- it's easier that way.
> With
> the many setting, it seems like half the systems have minor races but I
> don't get the option to colonize.
Oh not much you can do. You'll learn to love the "many" setting if you're
the Feds. or Ferengii.
> It looks like I should be able to
> colonize because I get a listing of what buildings they'll let me
> construct.
Hmm you normally only get a list of buildings to construct if they're
already a member of your empire .... you shouldn't need to colonize. BTW if
you're trying to have a "racially pure" galaxy (like klingon only) then your
only option is declaring war and going the "genocide" route -- then when
you've killed everyone you can "colonize" the planet as usual. BTW this is
the extreme route and is not recommended ... you'll learn why keeping
conquered aliens around is good when you get to fleet support issues.
> I tried attacking one but they completely trashed me.
When you attack a planet you have to go in with "overwhelming" force. The
planet you attacked probably had a lot of orbital batteries and shot your
ships up. If I play the Federation, for example, I wait until I have at
least 9 Galaxy class cruisers before I bomb a planet. With the Galaxy
class's better hull rating they are harder for the orbitals to shoot down.
If a planet is better defended I just add more Galaxy classes and more
transports.
> I sent
> three troop transports after one of them and they destroyed them all.
You've got to attack a planet with a "mini-armada". For a lightly defended
planet (5 orbitals, 200 population, and medium tech level) I send in at
least 9 Galaxy class cruisers to blast the defenses to smithereens and have
at least 9 transports assist the attack. If a planet has better defenses
you probably want more Galaxy classes attacking and you want to hold your
transports in reserve for at least the first wave of attacks so they don't
get shot up. At this point the planets orbitals, shields, and possibly
bunkers have a good chance to be down. You should be able to "waltz" in the
next turn with your transports.
Please note my strategies are against the AI -- Multi-Player support in this
game was so frustrating that I don't bother with other players at this
point. Other folks seem to have gotten multi-player to work more reliably
than I did though --- your milage may vary.
> Diplomacy is also weird.
Diplomacy comes down to who is capable (and does) spend the most money. The
Feds & Ferengii are great at this brand of "diplomacy". If it matters the
Feds. start off with most minor races liking them more than other empires.
Therefore the Feds. have a starting advantage.
> At different times I can't seem to do
> all of the options for some of the races, but I haven't figured out why
> yet.
If you can't do all of the operations that generally means (bugs
withstanding) that the race you met already has some sort of alliance or
membership treaty with another race. The only thing that you can do here if
you REALLY want this race is to go to war and TAKE it or bribe the aliens
away or out of the treaty. Please note that you will need to give them TONS
of money until they are totally "Worshipful" of you before you can bribe
them away. Once they agree to take their bribe bring them into your empire
ASAP .. offer the maximum amount of money for them to join you. Then if
everything goes well you've got yourself a minor race.
> I remember a while back reading that the diplomacy was basically
> giving money repeatedly, but I don't know how it works yet.
You've probably already got the "jist" of it.
As the last piece of advice ... play on the easiest difficulties with random
events turned off until you get the hang of things. If you play with random
events on then .. watch out for the Borg. Bwhahahah
Good luck. I hope you have fun with the game.
Robert Warren
> As the last piece of advice ... play on the easiest difficulties with random
> events turned off until you get the hang of things. If you play with random
> events on then .. watch out for the Borg. Bwhahahah
>
> Good luck. I hope you have fun with the game.
As regards the Borg in the patched version you could disable them while
having random events on. I think the patch document old you how to do
so.
Robert
Ed Rutherford
Robert Warren <rt...@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:394E67...@ukc.ac.uk...
> Ed Rutherford wrote:
>
> > As the last piece of advice ... play on the easiest difficulties with
random
> > events turned off until you get the hang of things. If you play with
random
> > events on then .. watch out for the Borg. Bwhahahah
> >
> > Good luck. I hope you have fun with the game.
>
> having random events on. I think the patch document old you how to do
> so.
The documentation does tell you how to do it (I think). Once you've played
a few games though you should be able to make the Borg "eat snakes" ....
Just throw everything at them and hope it's enough.
LurkerInTheShadows
It's buggy, poorly designed and even broken in some areas (by
the designers own admission later on). Diplomacy is basically
throwing money at all the races, the combat system is laughable
at times, and the whole thing degenerates into micromanagement
Hell by the end game.
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
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Brian Robinson
> Sorry, Brian, but this might not be one to pursue for very long.
>
other games I'm in the middle of, though, like Thief and Enemy
Infestation, and I need to finish them to have room for Diablo II when it
comes out. Or buy a new HD...
> It's buggy, poorly designed and even broken in some areas (by
> the designers own admission later on).
>
Could you give me an idea of where the bugs and broken parts are?
If you just mean the diplomacy, I agree its simplistic but at least it
works.
> Diplomacy is basically
> throwing money at all the races, the combat system is laughable
> at times,
>
One thing about the combat system I don't like is that I often can
see what the heck is going on. I wish they had made the viewing options
more intuitive. However, when you've got a bunch of task forces of yours
going against a bunch of the enemies, it can be quite cool. I took out a
starbase, a fleet of four warships and some scouts at Cardassia with nine
of my warships and two strike cruisers, and the battle was awesome! One
thing I don't like about the combat is that the phasers seem to do zero
damage.
Brian Robinson
> Colonizing is only used when someone else isn't there (on the planet). The
> only way to get control of the planet with the minor race is to "bribe" them
> into joining you -- this will take a good amount of money but will work
> eventually.
>
where I can't seem to get a proper responce to my membership proposal.
> Actually another way to get control of a system that has a
> minor race on it is to go to war with that race and TAKE the planet from
> them. If possible just try to "bribe" them -- it's easier that way.
>
It there any effective way to get the morale of a conquered planet
up? As the Klingons I figured I should raid everyone and I took over some
planets but I could never get their morale up. Using the martial law
build option didn't seem to work at all, either.
> Oh not much you can do. You'll learn to love the "many" setting if you're
> the Feds. or Ferengii.
>
Currently playing a Ferengi game on the large map with the lowest
number of minor races and I like it so far. Maybe for my next game I will
try the next up level to see what its like.
>> I tried attacking one but they completely trashed me.
> When you attack a planet you have to go in with "overwhelming" force. The
> planet you attacked probably had a lot of orbital batteries and shot your
> ships up. If I play the Federation, for example, I wait until I have at
> least 9 Galaxy class cruisers before I bomb a planet.
>
Okay, can non-troop transport ships assault a planet? I've tried
attacking planets with my Strike Cruisers but they don't seem to make any
difference...
> Please note my strategies are against the AI -- Multi-Player support in this
> game was so frustrating that I don't bother with other players at this
> point. Other folks seem to have gotten multi-player to work more reliably
> than I did though --- your milage may vary.
>
Is there any kind of active multiplayer going on with this game?
I'd like to give it a try, but the games take so long I doubt we could
finish,
>> Diplomacy is also weird.
> Diplomacy comes down to who is capable (and does) spend the most money. The
> Feds & Ferengii are great at this brand of "diplomacy". If it matters the
> Feds. start off with most minor races liking them more than other empires.
> Therefore the Feds. have a starting advantage.
>
I was able to do very well as the Ferengi for a while when I
wasn't at war with anyone and had trade routes to every planet I could
see. But now that everyone's at war with me I have to get my own colonies
to produce and that's making the game tougher.
> As the last piece of advice ... play on the easiest difficulties with random
> events turned off until you get the hang of things. If you play with random
> events on then .. watch out for the Borg. Bwhahahah
>
I've been playing with random events on. So far it isn't too bad.
I get a Husnock every now and then and he'll blow away an undefended
transport or scout, but then I send my fleet after him and its over. I
haven't seen the borg yet.
> Good luck. I hope you have fun with the game.
>
Surprisingly, its been completely consuming all my time. I've
been staying up late and skipped work yesterday to play. Its really a lot
more fun than I thought it would be based on what people said about it.
Maybe that will wear off after a while...
Robert Warren
>
> Ed Rutherford <eruth...@dtkga.com> blathered:
> > Actually another way to get control of a system that has a
> > minor race on it is to go to war with that race and TAKE the planet from
> > them. If possible just try to "bribe" them -- it's easier that way.
Don't try both though. Attracks make the minor race more loyal to thwe
major one, even if the major race is being wiped out.
> It there any effective way to get the morale of a conquered planet
> up? As the Klingons I figured I should raid everyone and I took over some
> planets but I could never get their morale up. Using the martial law
> build option didn't seem to work at all, either.
Only time seems to work. Martia law will make a really bad morale into
an Ok morale but no more than this. It substitues policing for
happiness.
> >> I tried attacking one but they completely trashed me.
>
> > When you attack a planet you have to go in with "overwhelming" force. The
> > planet you attacked probably had a lot of orbital batteries and shot your
> > ships up. If I play the Federation, for example, I wait until I have at
> > least 9 Galaxy class cruisers before I bomb a planet.
> >
> Okay, can non-troop transport ships assault a planet? I've tried
> attacking planets with my Strike Cruisers but they don't seem to make any
> difference...
Warships destroy enemy defences but can't invade.
Robert
sum...@mediaone.net
<eruth...@dtkga.com> wrote:
>
>Robert Warren <rt...@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:394E67...@ukc.ac.uk...
>> Ed Rutherford wrote:
>>
>> > As the last piece of advice ... play on the easiest difficulties with
>random
>> > events turned off until you get the hang of things. If you play with
>random
>> > events on then .. watch out for the Borg. Bwhahahah
>> >
>> > Good luck. I hope you have fun with the game.
>>
>> As regards the Borg in the patched version you could disable them while
>> having random events on. I think the patch document old you how to do
>> so.
>
>The documentation does tell you how to do it (I think). Once you've played
>a few games though you should be able to make the Borg "eat snakes" ....
>Just throw everything at them and hope it's enough.
Unfortunately, the borg are capable of destroying a fleet of 10-15
ships easy, even if you win you're completely at the mercy of your
neighbors. With Random events on, you should see a monster every few
turns-the AI players become a sideshow.
>
>
>
>
>
Ed Rutherford
> Ed Rutherford <eruth...@dtkga.com> blathered:
<snip>
> It there any effective way to get the morale of a conquered planet
> up? As the Klingons I figured I should raid everyone and I took over some
> planets but I could never get their morale up. Using the martial law
> build option didn't seem to work at all, either.
For a conquered planet I wouldn't even bother trying to get morale up. The
only thing that I use a conquered planet for is the boost that the
population gives me to fleet support (and any "free" things I can get)
I'll build structures like:
shipyard (extend range of ships)
wind turbines (free energy)
energy collectors (free energy)
research center (almost free extra points of research)
sensor arrays (got to see the bad guys coming at you)
anything that's "free" or gives you some kind of bonus
Race specific structures if they're worth it
As for the rest of the population I have just enough farmers to feed
everyone and the rest are in research. From then on I "ignore" the planet
...
> > When you attack a planet you have to go in with "overwhelming" force.
The
> > planet you attacked probably had a lot of orbital batteries and shot
your
> > ships up. If I play the Federation, for example, I wait until I have at
> > least 9 Galaxy class cruisers before I bomb a planet.
> >
> Okay, can non-troop transport ships assault a planet? I've tried
> attacking planets with my Strike Cruisers but they don't seem to make any
> difference...
Yes non-troop transport ships can assault a planet. If you're playing any
race BUT the Feds just get a lot of heavy ships and have them assault the
planet for a turn or two. When you've killed all of the orbitals have the
"troop transports" join your heavy ships and have the troop transports
attack the planet ... make sure you have a good number of transports
attacking (say 9 or so).
> Surprisingly, its been completely consuming all my time. I've
> been staying up late and skipped work yesterday to play. Its really a lot
> more fun than I thought it would be based on what people said about it.
> Maybe that will wear off after a while...
Almost everyone (ok almost every Trek fan) has fun at first. Once folks
have played each empire once or twice their opinions tend to change. I
still like it every once in a while.
Martin Leslie Leuschen
<for conqueured planets:>
: As for the rest of the population I have just enough farmers to feed
: everyone and the rest are in research. From then on I "ignore" the planet
: ...
Actually, you should do your espionage on conquered planets.
Morale effects science and industry but not espionage, food,
or energy. Conquered planets are also obvious places to do
stuff that sucks down energy. Big scanners, Romulan singularity
plants, etc.
Racial specials can also effect this. The Mizar are great slaves,
and the guys with the +50% industry bonus are nice builders
even if conquered.
Regards,
martinl
Ed Rutherford
Martin Leslie Leuschen <mar...@rice.edu> wrote in message
news:8ir4jo$2a7$3...@joe.rice.edu...
> Ed Rutherford (eruth...@dtkga.com) wrote:
>
> <for conqueured planets:>
>
> : As for the rest of the population I have just enough farmers to feed
> : everyone and the rest are in research. From then on I "ignore" the
planet
> : ...
>
> Actually, you should do your espionage on conquered planets.
> Morale effects science and industry but not espionage, food,
> or energy. Conquered planets are also obvious places to do
> stuff that sucks down energy. Big scanners, Romulan singularity
> plants, etc.
Cool -- I thought that morale effected espionage also ... thanks that's
handy. In general though I've already got enough espionage by the time I'm
conquereing planets. I'll try that next time though and see what happens.
Now I remember another reason why I usually do research --- I almost NEVER
conquer a planet with decent espionage (ok Romulus & Cardassia are generally
ok). So instead of building up the espionage with bad industry I just say
"aw heck" & throw them into research which they generally have.
>
> Racial specials can also effect this. The Mizar are great slaves,
> and the guys with the +50% industry bonus are nice builders
> even if conquered.
True .. Mizars with the morale structure and the Benzites (I think) with the
50% industry bonus are WORTH trying to make happy.
Thanks for the advice.
Brian Robinson
> Cool -- I thought that morale effected espionage also ... thanks that's
> handy. In general though I've already got enough espionage by the time I'm
> conquereing planets. I'll try that next time though and see what happens.
>
security up around 85 because if I take it lower I start getting a lot of
theft and sabotage. Its hard for me to remember to focus on espionage
because the effects are less immediate, and I think I tend to not give as
many reseources to it as I should. Also, I've never got anything decent
from my spies. I'll get a report that says "The Feds have an economy of
100". Okay, so?
Ed Rutherford
I'm not sure but I think what was meant by "espionage" was all spy-like
activity in BOTF -- this means both sabotage & espionage.
I'm going to get flamed by the Cardy & Romulan fans out there but I normally
keep my internal security around 100% -- especially IF the bad guys
occasionally do something against me. I only start doing the sabotage thing
when it's fairly late in the game. This is probably the wrong strategy but
I prefer to concentrate my "excess" intelligence (spy stuff) into pure
research -- at least when I play the feds.... Your mileage may vary :)
Martin Leslie Leuschen
: Now I remember another reason why I usually do research --- I almost NEVER
: conquer a planet with decent espionage (ok Romulus & Cardassia are generally
: ok). So instead of building up the espionage with bad industry I just say
: "aw heck" & throw them into research which they generally have.
That is a very good point. Minors can have very bizzarre planets,
but they usually don't have much espionage. Still, if there is
extra labor, I go spy rather than sci on slave systems. :)
As for my own spying, I prefer just enough to keep the CPs off my
back. If I'm not the Roms or Cardies, but have met them, this
can be a *lot*. Between their Pheonix facs and racial bonii, they
can get darned annoying on impossible.
Regards,
martinl
Robert Warren
>
> That is a very good point. Minors can have very bizzarre planets,
> but they usually don't have much espionage. Still, if there is
> extra labor, I go spy rather than sci on slave systems. :)
>
Minor races have no espionage facilities. They develop in occasional
jumps as the game goes on. The don't build like a major race so some end
up with 20+ farms whilst others (occasionally) have none.
Robert