MOO2: Ship Design
Matt McLeod
I've been playing the game for a while now, and I think I've hit on
something of a winning pattern.
Cruisers. Small enough to be cheap and quick to produce, large enough to
pack a punch. The only reason I can see to bother with Doom Stars is if you
want to tote a Stellar Converter around with you.
In particular, 3 general types of cruiser:
Missile Cruiser: useful early in the game. Fill it with MIRV nukes. A
couple of these can take out most space monsters, and provide a credible
defence against greedy neighbours. Missiles generally seem to be more
useful than beams in the early game - a nuke will do a lot more damage than
a laser cannon, and the ships are slow enough that you can get away with
slow missiles
Assault Cruiser: for the midgame. Fill the bugger up with assault
shuttles, and watch the enemy get creamed! Why bother with bombers, when
you can capture the enemy battlestation and use it to take out the planetary
defenses? There doesn't seem to be any defense against these guys - even if
you knock them out quickly, there are still those shuttles full of marines,
who'll probably capture your best ships quite quickly. These are best
combined with the Telepath ability (which I almost always take now - it's
the real show-stopper of all the abilities - an Uncreative Telepath will
beat the crap out of a Creative non-Telepath).
Beam Cruiser: the king of the endgame. Fill it with disruptor cannons,
plus the best sheilding specials you have (e.g., mutliphased sheilds, sheild
capacitator, etc). Knocks out enemy battleships with a single shot, and can
easily take out titans and starfortresses if you have a couple of them.
Don't retire those Assault Cruisers from the midgame though - they still
come in pretty handy, especially if you find yourself outgunned at some
stage.
I'm sure there are other good designs around, but I've found that these 3
are enough to beat the CP's.
--
Matt McLeod "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses."
System Administrator - Sir Humphrey Appleby
Hunter Network Association KDE: http://www.zws.com/kde/
James Winsor
ma...@praetor.hna.com.au (Matt McLeod) wrote:
Actually, I tend towards building Doom Star and Titan fleets, due to
the Command Point restraints, but I did design an absolutely killer
late-game cruiser design - the Black Hole Cruiser:
Cruiser Hull with:
Battle Pods
Phasing Cloak
Subspace Teleporters
1 Black Hole Generator
NO shields
NO computer
No computer because there are no beam weapons to direct, so might as
well save a few bucks. No shields because I need just a little more
room to fit everything else in, unfortunately.
This is the ultimate assassin cruiser. One of these puppies can easily
take out a Doom Star, and live to tell about it. The way it works is
they cruise along under Phased Cloak till they get in range of their
prey, decloak, then Black Hole the target ship. Then, they Teleport 20
spaces away.
The enemy fleet has one turn to kill the offending cruiser, which is
tough because it is now very far away. Missles/fighters wont make it,
and beams will likely miss at that range.
Next round, cruiser teleports further away, and then recloaks. Evil
bad Doomstar blows up. Then, the Black Hole cruiser moves up to its
next victim....etc...
Great fun! :)
Jim
steve_yancey
In article <matt.850267647@praetor>, ma...@praetor.hna.com.au says...
<snip>
>Assault Cruiser: for the midgame. Fill the bugger up with assault
>shuttles, and watch the enemy get creamed! Why bother with bombers, when
>you can capture the enemy battlestation and use it to take out the planetary
>defenses? There doesn't seem to be any defense against these guys - even if
>you knock them out quickly, there are still those shuttles full of marines,
>who'll probably capture your best ships quite quickly. These are best
>combined with the Telepath ability (which I almost always take now - it's
>the real show-stopper of all the abilities - an Uncreative Telepath will
>beat the crap out of a Creative non-Telepath).
>Matt McLeod "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses."
I don't understand what you mean by "<no> defense against these guys".
I've fought CP fleets armed with hordes of assault shuttles and had no
problem with them. If you have adequate point defenses and/or
interceptors, those shuttles die easy. Then those "assault" ships are
toothless. Plus when you try to board a target with 20 or 40 marines,
your initial assault better be with more than 4-8 marines. You can
only put so many shuttles on a cruiser, and it never really gets better
because they don't miniaturize space-wise (just get cheaper). If you're
counting on going back for 3 or 4 "reloads" and attriting your target with
several waves, you better have pretty good armor/shielding/defenses on
your mother ship because he'll be shooting at you the whole time. Either
that, or you're going to have to reduce your target's marine count before
the assault with some neutron blasters. But you don't have the space for
enough weapons to punch through shields and start killing marines if
you're loaded up with enough shuttle bays to do the job.
Since I saw how easy it was to negate the CP's assault shuttle threat, I
never tried building them myself. Is it possible that you're successful
with this tactic because the AI is brain-dead and doesn't treat assault
shuttles as enough of a threat and promptly toast them? I don't think
this would work very well against a competent opponent.
BTW, I've been playing a telepath/feudal/warlord, and I agree that it is
immensely powerful, but I don't think ship-capturing is the best focus
of these powers. You will get further, faster if you improve and load
up on your beam weapons. In this mid-game you're talking about, two or
three of my beam-armed cruisers or battleships are taking out the CP
battlestations _and_ planetary defenses in one or two shots, where assault
shuttles would still be enroute. These same ships are also effective
against monsters and Antareans, which can't be said for the "assault ship".
Steve (sya...@griffin.com)
Evan Wetstone
Matt McLeod (ma...@praetor.hna.com.au) wrote:
: I've been playing the game for a while now, and I think I've hit on
: something of a winning pattern.
: Cruisers. Small enough to be cheap and quick to produce, large enough to
: pack a punch. The only reason I can see to bother with Doom Stars is if you
: want to tote a Stellar Converter around with you.
: In particular, 3 general types of cruiser:
[3 Types of cruisers deleted]
Just for grins, I decided to try out an Aegis class missile-defense cruiser.
Load it up with Anti-missile rockets, and Laser Cannon, PD, AF, AP, CO.
Deploy a screen of 2 or 3 in front of some Battleships, and they BB's never
get touched by missiles. Load the BB's up with Heavy Graviton Beams, and
they'll toast just about anything.
--
Evan Wetstone ev...@dell.com
D. B. Brown
Matt McLeod wrote:
>
> I've been playing the game for a while now, and I think I've hit on
> something of a winning pattern.
>
> Cruisers. Small enough to be cheap and quick to produce, large enough
Yeah, I've found that Cruisers work very well up until you get
Titans... then Titans work well until you get Doom Stars...
(Personally, I usually don't build many battleships... never
really had the reason to... by the time I have the specials to
justify it, I have titans...)
Early game: Missile-bound cruisers with mirv nukes, two shot
to save space.
Middle game: Take some cruisers, and fill them up with laser
cannons with _all_ the modifications except point defense,
keep them forward arc only for max impact. I've found that
laser cannons at high techs are the most effecient because of
the extreme small size and cost, even after you give it all the
cool mods. A couple of tech levels higher, fusion beams have
the same effect, but more damage and range.
Late game: This is where you need the big ships, just to stack
all the specials on there... the size ratio is much more favorable
the higher up you go, so you can pack the triple hull, triple
armour, and automated repair. I'll usually start these big guys
off with proton torpedoes, and then change to maulers or similar
beam weapons when I get subspace teleporters... In general, I
very rarely go for the highest tech weapon availible... it takes
some refinement before they really pack the big punch.
Also, one thing I noticed that I rather liked was the added
dimension weapon modifications has on ship design -- this is the
biggest reason why creative doesn't dominate the game... you
don't need all that many weapons designs, as long as you keep
researching in the field, your weapons get a lot better on their
own.
(As a sidenote, I think Telepathic is the 'spoiler' pick...
Creative is just nice)
--
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|too damned real and in the present tense? |zep...@spectra.net |
| -Ian Anderson | "..." |
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Pat LaBine
Hey everybody,
Has anyone noticed that the Battletoids tech picture looks like the
Mech..Herc...uhh robot from that scrapped Simtex game Mechlords? Anyone
remember that ad? Beat me to a pulp if I'm out to lunch.
Pat
NecroGuy55
True, absolutely true. I noticed this the first time I played Psilons, (I
don't usually research Battloids) and got it with Creative. I guess
Microprose wanted to use the pic for something....?
Nathaniel Perez
aka Necroguy55, aka Orclord.
"....there is no point in driving yourself mad trying to stop yourself going mad. You might just as well give in and save your sanity for later." Ford Prefect- Life, the Universe, and Everything.
DarkKnight
I have found that it works best for to have a combination of these two types of ships.
Usually at a 3 to 1 ratio of beam ships to assualt shuttle ships. Reason I like this so
much is that playing Creative, even at impossible level, is a big no-no. So there is
always tech that I need/want. Capturing enemy ships and them scrapping them usually gets
me some tech I don't have.
Walter
ma...@praetor.hna.com.au (Matt McLeod) wrote:
>In particular, 3 general types of cruiser:
>Missile Cruiser: useful early in the game. Fill it with MIRV nukes. A
>couple of these can take out most space monsters, and provide a credible
>defence against greedy neighbours. Missiles generally seem to be more
>useful than beams in the early game - a nuke will do a lot more damage than
>a laser cannon, and the ships are slow enough that you can get away with
>slow missiles
I agree with you on the Missile Cruiser point.
There is really no reason to use anything other than a warship packed
to the gills with Nukes in the early game. I laugh at those computer
players who show up for the party armed with lots of laser cannons and
one lonely nuclear missile mount. :)
But, once the middle-to-late game approaches, I favour building a ship
which the computer players simply CANNOT destroy.
A Titan class ship equipped with a Reinforced Hull, and Heavy Armour,
plus a Auto-Repair system, is nearly unkillable by most computer
firepower in the middle part of the game. Of course, getting the
industry to build this could be tricky, but a good Rich or Ultra-Rich
planet can manage it in about 10 turns if everyone is producing.
The main strength of that kind of ship is it's survivability. It will
take nothing less than your opponent's complete battlefleet to kill
it, usually. At that point, you can pick off his ships at leisure
until he no longer has enough ships to damage you faster than you can
repair.
I like Titans, personally speaking. Sure, they're a bugger to
construct. But you can name them personally, and they're fun to use.
Will Culbertson
Matt McLeod wrote:
>
> I've been playing the game for a while now, and I think I've hit on
> something of a winning pattern.
>
> pack a punch. The only reason I can see to bother with Doom Stars is if you
> want to tote a Stellar Converter around with you.
>
>
> Missile Cruiser: useful early in the game. Fill it with MIRV nukes. A
> couple of these can take out most space monsters, and provide a credible
> defence against greedy neighbours. Missiles generally seem to be more
> useful than beams in the early game - a nuke will do a lot more damage than
> a laser cannon, and the ships are slow enough that you can get away with
> slow missiles
>
> shuttles, and watch the enemy get creamed! Why bother with bombers, when
> you can capture the enemy battlestation and use it to take out the planetary
> defenses? There doesn't seem to be any defense against these guys - even if
> you knock them out quickly, there are still those shuttles full of marines,
> who'll probably capture your best ships quite quickly. These are best
> combined with the Telepath ability (which I almost always take now - it's
> the real show-stopper of all the abilities - an Uncreative Telepath will
> beat the crap out of a Creative non-Telepath).
>
> plus the best sheilding specials you have (e.g., mutliphased sheilds, sheild
> capacitator, etc). Knocks out enemy battleships with a single shot, and can
> easily take out titans and starfortresses if you have a couple of them.
> Don't retire those Assault Cruisers from the midgame though - they still
> come in pretty handy, especially if you find yourself outgunned at some
> stage.
>
> I'm sure there are other good designs around, but I've found that these 3
> are enough to beat the CP's.
>
> Matt McLeod "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses."
> Hunter Network Association KDE: http://www.zws.com/kde/
Actually I've found that once you get Phasers in the game, it's over. No
matter what the enemy has or you eventually get. Heavy phasers will
toast about everything and they miniaturize quickly. Only when you start
fighting things with reflection shields do you run into a problem, but
by then you'll have something else because I've only seen the Antarans
use them in number. Once you get Heavy, Cont., Auto-Fire and Shield
Piercing then can easily be the best weapon (except maybe Death Rays.)
I've tried various specialist ships, a few of my favorites are:
Yellow Carriers:
Fill with Interceptors and a few Missiles with only 2 shots. Give them
Battle pods and Fast Missile Racks. On the first turn, launch the
fighters and both missiles (emptying the racks) and then retreat the
carriers. The enemy fleet will most likely fire on them the first turn
but at that range they should survive. It gives you a free turn to fire
on the enemy and they still have to deal with the missiles and fighters.
Torp/Missile Boats:
I usually make these when I get Anti-Matter Torpedoes & Missiles but
they work with only missiles as well. First turn, fire and move away
from the enemy fleet. The AI seems to like to fire on these first (like
carriers) and with them moving away, they take little damage and so
survive. Even if they live, you can make them on cheap hulls and pump
them out. When you get overloaded/enveloping torps, these get real
nasty.
In any case, once Phasers are developed (and they should in every game,
either with research, trading or stealing) refit every ship with them
(unless you have something better.) I have really found that the enemy
fleets seldom can deal with Phaser armed ships and live. I usually kill
fleets 5-10 times my size even when I am massivle out-teched elsewhere.
Will
John Lansford
les...@singnet.com.sg (Walter) wrote:
>But, once the middle-to-late game approaches, I favour building a ship
>which the computer players simply CANNOT destroy.
>
>A Titan class ship equipped with a Reinforced Hull, and Heavy Armour,
>plus a Auto-Repair system, is nearly unkillable by most computer
>firepower in the middle part of the game. Of course, getting the
>industry to build this could be tricky, but a good Rich or Ultra-Rich
>planet can manage it in about 10 turns if everyone is producing.
>
>The main strength of that kind of ship is it's survivability. It will
>take nothing less than your opponent's complete battlefleet to kill
>it, usually. At that point, you can pick off his ships at leisure
>until he no longer has enough ships to damage you faster than you can
>repair.
Actually I saw a fleet of four A/I battleships that would take down
your unkillable Titan.
The Klackons had picked up the Plasma Web from somewhere and had
placed five of the things on each BB. When my battlefleet showed up,
each one of them dumped their webs on one of my ships. The first
round, they did 400 points of damage. The next turn they did 1800.
Plasma Webs do 5-25 points of damage --per ship size--. That means a
Titan will take much more damage than my BB. I've found the only thing
I could do against these weapons was to destroy the ships before more
than two rounds happened with those webs on my ship.
John Lansford
Rob C. Johnson
I find Plasma Cannon to be much more effective than Phasors, for
sheer damage potential. Most of the time, that is.
Assuming you don't have to deal with Hard Shields to often,
Phasors which Auto Fire and Shield Pierce combined with a
special called the Achilles targetting system (your beams are
armor piercing, even against Xentronium), well, that's just
plain cruel! Oh, and Achilles likes to target weapons and
shields as well...
Of course, there are other cool combos, like Death Rays and
Transporters, one of my faves for telepaths.
Rob favorite quote of God:
"We're sorry for the inconvenience."
(rcjo...@prairienet.org)
Eugene Wong
Has anyone noticed that when you equip a ship with a Time Warp
Manipulator & Phasing Cloak, you create what, effectively, is an
unkillable ship? i.e. you use your first round to fire at the enemy,
then use the extra round (given by the time warp device) to re-phase
cloak.
By putting these 2 specials in a doom star/titan together with a
couple of stellar converters, you can plink an immense enemy fleet
away (or at least till the computer decides it cannot win and
retreats). I once defeated a fleet of 170 battleships & 30 doom stars
with this tactic on impossible difficulty level.
Thomas M. Holsinger
les...@singnet.com.sg (Walter) wrote:
>But, once the middle-to-late game approaches, I favour building a ship
>which the computer players simply CANNOT destroy.
>A Titan class ship equipped with a Reinforced Hull, and Heavy Armour,
>plus a Auto-Repair system, is nearly unkillable by most computer
>firepower in the middle part of the game. Of course, getting the
>industry to build this could be tricky, but a good Rich or Ultra-Rich
>planet can manage it in about 10 turns if everyone is producing.
>The main strength of that kind of ship is it's survivability. It will
>take nothing less than your opponent's complete battlefleet to kill
>it, usually. At that point, you can pick off his ships at leisure
>until he no longer has enough ships to damage you faster than you can
>repair.
>I like Titans, personally speaking. Sure, they're a bugger to
>construct. But you can name them personally, and they're fun to use.
I use those things with Augmented Engines and Gyro Destabilizers until
the AI starts putting on banks of 5-10 Ion Pulse Cannon. Then I
remove the armor, reinforced structure and faster engines in favor of
maximum long-range beam firepower.
Ong Boon Hean
In article <58unk8$d...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, hols...@netbox.com (Thomas M. Holsinger) wrote:
>les...@singnet.com.sg (Walter) wrote:
>
>>But, once the middle-to-late game approaches, I favour building a ship
>>which the computer players simply CANNOT destroy.
Yes, saves lots of time/resources trying to rebuild new ships to replace
destroyed ones =)
>>A Titan class ship equipped with a Reinforced Hull, and Heavy Armour,
>>plus a Auto-Repair system, is nearly unkillable by most computer
>>firepower in the middle part of the game. Of course, getting the
>>industry to build this could be tricky, but a good Rich or Ultra-Rich
>>planet can manage it in about 10 turns if everyone is producing.
Battleships IMHO are better ships for the early-midgame as
a) I like Ground Batteries alot =)
b) Specialist/invulnerable ships don't require that much firepower (ie My ship
will outlast your fleet)
c) Titans are a pain to build if you need a fleet ASAP.
>I use those things with Augmented Engines and Gyro Destabilizers until
>the AI starts putting on banks of 5-10 Ion Pulse Cannon. Then I
>remove the armor, reinforced structure and faster engines in favor of
>maximum long-range beam firepower.
>
Speakin of which, I absolutely *ENJOY* combining these 2 aspects. Heck,
I only start cranking my colonies into war-machines after I've researched
Shield-Capacitors, Gyro Destabliziers, Auto-Repair, Class III Shields, a
good engine or two and have heavy/reinforced armored hulls.
My personal favourite battleship carries all the survival-equipment and
about 3-4 destabilizers for punch. Add missiles, pd weapons or bombs
to taste. Most of the time, they give me the ability to take over alot
of CP colonies in the early midgame and wipe out a CP or two, plundering their
tech etc. However, after a while, they'll become obselete when the CP gets
heavily-armored Battlestations, tonnes of ground defenses (Destablizers take
up too much space for more planet-busting) autorepair or heavy fighters...
Then again, if I can survive the midgame, the CP is good as gone =)