MoM: Best Summoned Creature
David Ross Thompson
tend to think that it's the Sky Drake...the lightning attack and the
magic immunity make them killer units. Hydras are pretty good too,
though, as are Colossus (which I haven't yet seen in v1.3, come to think
of it). Great Wyrms aren't very cost effective (huge upkeep in mana) and
aren't of much use
against flying units, and strangely both Demon Lords and Archangels are
pretty easy to kill.
Dennis Andrew Blazewicz
: multi-figure summoned units, such as Gorgons and Chimeras, and
: the temporary units, such as Air and Earth Elementals. This
: being said, I agree that the Sky Drake is the best summoned
: creature, with the possible exception of Torin the Chosen, if
: he has a lot of experience and good magic items. But I think
: heroes weren't what you had in mind.
Well, personally i just *LOVE* using Great Drakes for intercontinental
assaults. For combat summonning, nothing can beat the death/sorcery combo
of a BERSERKed Phantom Beast. Hero.. hmm. Yamrag (sp) The Witch isjust the
best, with her combat-inclined spellbook.
Astinus
Bill Poitras
: of it). Great Wyrms aren't very cost effective (huge upkeep in mana) and
: against flying units,
Then don't use them against flying units. Or make them fly.
: and strangely both Demon Lords and Archangels are
: pretty easy to kill.
They probably aren't great fighters because they cast spells. A Demon
Lord can summon 3 demons, and Archangels have life spells.
--
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Jeffrey Robert King
Archangels can cast Invulnerability on themselves, if you
haven't already done so from the overland. They should do so.
Demon Lords have a life-steal attack - use it against
low-resistance targets - and can summon demons. I don't find
either of those easy to kill. Also, you are neglecting the
multi-figure summoned units, such as Gorgons and Chimeras, and
the temporary units, such as Air and Earth Elementals. This
being said, I agree that the Sky Drake is the best summoned
creature, with the possible exception of Torin the Chosen, if
he has a lot of experience and good magic items. But I think
heroes weren't what you had in mind.
Thomas Stockheim
>personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
>find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
>be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
>summoned creature.
I suppose that you never summoned wraiths as your first spell in the game ?
Thats the easiest way to win a game.
Sky Drakes are also great, there is not much that can stop them.
The only problem I have with summoned creatures is taking nodes, especially
those with great or sky drakes or great wyrms, there heroes or killer slingers
or paladins are better.
Thomas
Will Dieterich
personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
summoned creature.
--
--
William Dieterich Call Sign: KD4LZE Email: wdie...@rainbow.rmii.com
In search of a stupid line.
Kent Coleman
exploring Arcana. Load them up with a hero or two... (sorry, I just realized
this was about summoned creatures... my mistake...)
-Clayton Coleman at Delphi
Jeffrey Robert King
: -Clayton Coleman at Delphi
Also, the readme for 1.31 states that draconian airships may
not carry other units. I thought they could too, because
otherwise, what's the use of building them? Guess I was wrong..
Daniel Lemberg
If you have a group of creatures, hydras rule! I'd bet 9 hydras versus
any group except a bunch of high level hero guys.
Eli Nelson
>Kent Coleman (kentc...@delphi.com) wrote:
>: David Ross Thompson <dtho...@is.dal.ca> writes:
>:
>: > What do people think is the best creature that can be summoned? I
>: >tend to think that it's the Sky Drake...the lightning attack and the
>: >magic immunity make them killer units. Hydras are pretty good too,
>: >though, as are Colossus (which I haven't yet seen in v1.3, come to think
>: >of it). Great Wyrms aren't very cost effective (huge upkeep in mana) and
>: >aren't of much use
>: >against flying units, and strangely both Demon Lords and Archangels are
>: >pretty easy to kill.
Death Knights. I'm playing Hard (wimped out; just got the 1.31 patch) with
4 opponents, and two units of Death Knights are the only things I've
been able to keep alive. I had six elite paladins with Wraith form and
cloak of fear on each... and they kept getting their asses kicked. The
only way I could keep from losing them was to rotate my attackers until
the enemy was dead and all of my paladins were almost dead. Sucks,
considering how powerful they used to be :( The Death Knights, on the
other hand, have crushed everything in their way. Four figures strong
each, they have that nice armor piercing first strike combo, AND
steal life (great way to quickly regenerate), on top of the fact that
they fly at three (very handy sometimes) and have lots of cool
immunities. Upkeep of seven or eight is a little annoying, but
I'll take it over the huge upkeeps required for green any day.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooh, eeh, ooh ah ah. Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang!
Ooh, eeh, ooh, ah ah, ting tang walla walla walla bing!
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DriveBy Billy
Will Dieterich <wdie...@rmii.com> wrote:
>personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
>find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
>be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
>summoned creature.
Torin isn't shabby at all, but try some summoned Champions like
Mystic X or Warrax. Warrax at present for me at Grand Lord level has
27 swords, 33 ranged magic, Sage* +24 or more Arcane Power* +10. He is
also Armor Piercingm Prayermaster* + ??. He wears armour and can wield
sword/stave/mace/axe. Sir Harold and Roland make excellent warriors.
With Mystic X and Warrax as your strong Mage/Warrior types. Elena the
Priestess isn't shabby but Alorra is better in my opinion. Deth Stryke isn't
worth 10 gold per round. I usually find incarnation after I have my set of
six champions so I make due with Summon Champion.
--
-BillyBoy
Chan Hoong Keong
> personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
> find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
> be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
> summoned creature.
My opinion differs. A full stack of strong summoned creatures are the only
battle formation that can guarantee to reach enemies units in time in
order to engage in hand-to-hand combats. While regular armies units are
cheaper and as effective most of the time, they simply have too few hit
points as compared to summoned creatures.
To illustrate my points, consider paladins, a bad-ass unit that can wipe
out almost any opposition, will still fall when going up against power-up
slingers, elven archers and other strong missile troops. Magicians and
warlocks are helpless against paladins and invisible creatures. Most
missile troops cannot even handle weak monsters with missile immunity,
like skeletons.
--
Email : hkc...@hkchan.pc.my
Jeffrey Robert King
: In article <3jl2jv$7...@rainbow.rmii.com>,
: Will Dieterich <wdie...@rmii.com> wrote:
Here's another vote for Warrax. But I should note, I find
Aerie, Yramrag, Malleus, and Morgana about equally effective.
I've only gotten Mystic X once, so I can't say much about him.
And obviously, anyone at Grand Lord kicks ass. I don't find
much use for fighter types (other than Torin, who does well
early with ride up 1, cast, ride up 1, cast, by then you're in
melee) - if there were a Champion with thrown or first strike
similar to Shalla's, that would be useful, but I've never seen
one. I think the fighter/mage types like Aureus are damn near
useless - they're not good at anything. Alorra and Marcus are
good, but need a lot of + to hit to offset range penalties on
their bow attacks. Also, the game needs a Might for bow
attacks. (Marcus' Might applies to melee, but not bows? Gimme a
break..)
DriveBy Billy
Jeffrey Robert King <jr...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>DriveBy Billy (sp...@clark.net) wrote:
>: In article <3jl2jv$7...@rainbow.rmii.com>,
>: Will Dieterich <wdie...@rmii.com> wrote:
>
>Here's another vote for Warrax. But I should note, I find
>Aerie, Yramrag, Malleus, and Morgana about equally effective.
I like Malleus since he has a strong ranged attack and has
some nice spells as does Yramrag which has doom bolt. Morgana
usually has Arcance Power*. Aerie is weak in my opinion. Her ranged
attacks don't have that needed kick, and she is a champion too. Does
she have spells which make her a must have?
>melee) - if there were a Champion with thrown or first strike
>similar to Shalla's, that would be useful, but I've never seen
>one. I think the fighter/mage types like Aureus are damn near
You will like Roland the Paladin. Armor Piercing & First Strike as
well as Magic Immunity, Healer, Prayer Master, Con & Might*. He cost
10 per turn. He and Torin mop up big time as a team. Gunthor is a regular
Hero he had at Grand Lord level 22 thrown. I think Fangor with breath 30+
is decent as well. In fact better than thrown.
>useless - they're not good at anything. Alorra and Marcus are
>good, but need a lot of + to hit to offset range penalties on
>their bow attacks. Also, the game needs a Might for bow
>attacks. (Marcus' Might applies to melee, but not bows? Gimme a
>break..)
I like Alorra and Marcus with the ranged bow attacks. Alorra
is superior with bow and her magic casting.
--
-BillyBoy
Jeffrey Robert King
: In article <D5C5L...@murdoch.acc.virginia.edu>,
: Jeffrey Robert King <jr...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
: >DriveBy Billy (sp...@clark.net) wrote:
: >: In article <3jl2jv$7...@rainbow.rmii.com>,
: >: Will Dieterich <wdie...@rmii.com> wrote:
: >
: >Here's another vote for Warrax. But I should note, I find
: >Aerie, Yramrag, Malleus, and Morgana about equally effective.
: I like Malleus since he has a strong ranged attack and has
: some nice spells as does Yramrag which has doom bolt. Morgana
: usually has Arcance Power*. Aerie is weak in my opinion. Her ranged
: attacks don't have that needed kick, and she is a champion too. Does
: she have spells which make her a must have?
Well, Phantom Beast, Confusion, Vertigo, Mind Storm.. little
things like that. Also she has the special ability 'Illusion' -
her rangestrikes ignore armor. (Unless the target is illusion
immune)
: >melee) - if there were a Champion with thrown or first strike
: >similar to Shalla's, that would be useful, but I've never seen
: >one. I think the fighter/mage types like Aureus are damn near
: You will like Roland the Paladin. Armor Piercing & First Strike as
: well as Magic Immunity, Healer, Prayer Master, Con & Might*. He cost
: 10 per turn. He and Torin mop up big time as a team. Gunthor is a regular
: Hero he had at Grand Lord level 22 thrown. I think Fangor with breath 30+
: is decent as well. In fact better than thrown.
I would like him if I ever got him, maybe.. the only Champion
level fighter I have ever gotten was Deth Stryke, who is
utterly worthless compared to magic-using Champions or even
Heroes.
: >useless - they're not good at anything. Alorra and Marcus are
: >good, but need a lot of + to hit to offset range penalties on
: >their bow attacks. Also, the game needs a Might for bow
: >attacks. (Marcus' Might applies to melee, but not bows? Gimme a
: >break..)
: I like Alorra and Marcus with the ranged bow attacks. Alorra
: is superior with bow and her magic casting.
Marcus also casts, and pathfinds too IIRC. My point was not
that they weren't good, but that they have problems hitting at
long ranges, and their attacks do not increase rapidly with
level like, say, Morgana's, or Torin's.
: --
: -BillyBoy
Rob Buchner
Jeffrey Robert King <jr...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>Alorra and Marcus are good, but need a lot of + to hit to
>offset range penalties on their bow attacks. Also, the game
>needs a Might for bow attacks.
I'm curious, the manual says under range penalties that
plusses to hit only apply for short range attacks (1-2 squares)
No plusses to hit apply for any range which has penalties.
Am I misreading the description? It does not seem the case
in actual play, but I'm not particularly sure about it.
--
Rob Buchner
rai...@ihlpf.ih.att.com
Rob Buchner
Chan Hoong Keong <hkc...@hkchan.pc.my> wrote:
>
>In article <3jl2jv$7...@rainbow.rmii.com> wdie...@rmii.com writes:
>
> > personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
> > find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
> > be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
> > summoned creature.
>
> My opinion differs. A full stack of strong summoned creatures are the only
> battle formation that can guarantee to reach enemies units in time in
> order to engage in hand-to-hand combats. While regular armies units are
> cheaper and as effective most of the time, they simply have too few hit
> points as compared to summoned creatures.
I agree with the original poster. The only summoned creature I ever
bother with are phantom warriers (in combat to wear down an opponent),
and then only early in the game. Mana is better spent elsewhere than
in supporting summoned creatures. Properly utilized normal units
can be used effectively in all battle situations. If I send in troops
which have to cross the battle field in order to engage in hand-to-hand
melee, and taking lots of damage in the meantime, then I submit to you
that my combat stretegy is pretty bad and I deserve to lose those units.
I should at all times be able to plan for the proper units to attack.
In fact, I usually consider resorting to hand-to-hand melee as a failure.
Between missiles and magic, I entirely expect to take down the enemy.
If they get to my troops before I've killed them, my strategy has failed,
but at worst I've worn them down to the point where I can handle them.
Unless of course I'm using paladins or eleven lords or heroes intended
for hand-to-hand melee, in which case I make sure I'm immune to magic
and/or missiles.
Its easy to make well-rounded attack forces. With slingers, compliment
them with heroes using magic range attacks, and a hero with good melee
strength/defense. With paladins, compliment them with heroes using magic
range attacks, and a hero with good bow strength. With warlocks, heroes
with bows and swords work well in combination. Then pick and choose which
ones to use for the combat situation at hand. You don't have to take them
all in if there is a risk (ie your slingers being taken out by warlocks).
> To illustrate my points, consider paladins, a bad-ass unit that can wipe
> out almost any opposition, will still fall when going up against power-up
> slingers, elven archers and other strong missile troops. Magicians and
> warlocks are helpless against paladins and invisible creatures. Most
> missile troops cannot even handle weak monsters with missile immunity,
> like skeletons.
The only point you've illustrated is that you must use strategy
in effectively using a variety of normal troops. There is not a
single unit which can handle any situation and unbalance the game.
The same can be said for summoned creatures. So what's the point?
--
Rob Buchner
rai...@ihlpf.ih.att.com
DriveBy Billy
>I would like him if I ever got him, maybe.. the only Champion
>level fighter I have ever gotten was Deth Stryke, who is
>utterly worthless compared to magic-using Champions or even
>Heroes.
Well, cast the spell, then divide the 750 mana cost of the spell and
divide by your skill. Save your game when it is about 250 mana or less left
to completion. If you don't like the champion restore and move some various
units around <wink> you should get some else.
>Marcus also casts, and pathfinds too IIRC. My point was not
>that they weren't good, but that they have problems hitting at
>long ranges, and their attacks do not increase rapidly with
>level like, say, Morgana's, or Torin's.
Create a +4 dam +2 hit misc item for them.
--
-BillyBoy
Jeffrey Robert King
: In article <D5Fqr...@murdoch.acc.virginia.edu>,
: >I would like him if I ever got him, maybe.. the only Champion
: >level fighter I have ever gotten was Deth Stryke, who is
: >utterly worthless compared to magic-using Champions or even
: >Heroes.
: Well, cast the spell, then divide the 750 mana cost of the spell and
: divide by your skill. Save your game when it is about 250 mana or less left
: to completion. If you don't like the champion restore and move some various
: units around <wink> you should get some else.
But that's cheating.. :>
: >Marcus also casts, and pathfinds too IIRC. My point was not
: >that they weren't good, but that they have problems hitting at
: >long ranges, and their attacks do not increase rapidly with
: >level like, say, Morgana's, or Torin's.
: Create a +4 dam +2 hit misc item for them.
Hmm.. a bow would be better. It's cheaper to put the same
properties in a dedicated item than a misc.. costs about double
for a misc, I think. Either way, this is likely to be
impractical for a non-Artificer. +2 to hit is bloody expensive.
I've got to try LLLLLSSSSS Artificer again sometime..
: --
: -BillyBoy
Thomas Stockheim
>The only point you've illustrated is that you must use strategy
>in effectively using a variety of normal troops. There is not a
>single unit which can handle any situation and unbalance the game.
Are you so sure ? Ever used a Sky Dragon with guardian wind ?
If handled right, nothing can hurt him !
Thomas
Jeffrey Robert King
: rai...@apxws48.ih.att.com (Rob Buchner) writes:
Other than another sky dragon, a demon lord, a flying hero, a
flying paladin/pikemen (esp. with flameblade, lionheart, etc.),
a great drake, a hydra, or an archangel? I'm sure there are a
few I'm leaving out.. Sure, Sky Drakes are awesome. I'd say
they definitely deserve the title 'Best Summoned Creature' - if
we discount heroes, that is. Otherwise Torin, hands down.. but
you knew that already. But Sky Drakes aren't available until
the very end of the game, and they take a lot of mana to summon
and maintain (although by the end of the game, that isn't a big
issue.)
Summoned creatures will tend to be proportionally more
important in smaller landmass games, where you have fewer
cities to churn out masses of normal units to wear them down.
In large landmass games, the production from 20-30 maxed out
cities pretty much overwhelms even the most determined
spellcaster, leaving magic mostly to tip the balance in close
battles, or cast unit enchantments like lionheart, iron skin,
or invisibility.
Also, I find that summoned creatures just don't improve in
power per mana cost the same way normal units do, once you have
the cities built. Maybe if you could keep phantom warriors
outside of combat and load them up with lionheart, berzerk,
flameblade, invisibility, etc. But summoned creatures' lack of
gaining experience, not benefitting from some overland or
combat enchantments, etc. is a pretty serious weakness.
Finally, the realm you are playing will have a huge impact on
summoned creatures vs. normal units. Death magi will be hard
pressed to compete with life magi using only normal units, but
a few death knights or demon lords can get those lionhearted
pikemen back on your side, as undead. (Yes, undead do retain
unit enchantments. So do converted zombies.)
: Thomas
Moses Cline-James
>attacks don't have that needed kick, and she is a champion too. Does
>she have spells which make her a must have?
I think she has illusionary attack. It negates any enemy defenses. Very
useful against enemies with a lot of shields.
DriveBy Billy
Jeffrey Robert King <jr...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>: Well, cast the spell, then divide the 750 mana cost of the spell and
>: divide by your skill. Save your game when it is about 250 mana or less left
>: to completion. If you don't like the champion restore and move some various
>: units around <wink> you should get some else.
>
>But that's cheating.. :>
Naw, it's following a different time line <wink>. Besides when you
spend 750 mana and a possible 10 gold/turn, you want who you want. In fact,
when you summon; the game should at least ask you what type of Champion you
wish to hire or give you a choice of several. I was wondering if anyone
playing hard/medium/4/normal had the case where the first hero to ask for
employment is Gunthur the Barbarian. I play a Warlord/ Node master with
3L3S1C1N, and in six games he is always first. Second is B'shan in 5 games
since he hasn't appeared yet <wink>, and I already bought Hell's bolt for him.
Hell, instead of a swordsman & a spearman why don't they just start there.
>Hmm.. a bow would be better. It's cheaper to put the same
>properties in a dedicated item than a misc.. costs about double
>for a misc, I think. Either way, this is likely to be
>impractical for a non-Artificer. +2 to hit is bloody expensive.
I conquer nodes pretty much first then I conquer wizards, so I
find plenty of spells, weapons and armor. The misc stuff is what is rare
to find. I usually have mana up the gazoo, money too by mid game. It is
best to put it to use. There is no bonus for having 30000 mana at game
end. The drawback for me is the casting time <wink>. A misc item with
4 attack, 4 defense and 2 hit is about 3950. I admit that is outraagous but
a 44 ranged attack is ...... Warrax had +8 hit one time with helm of tides
and I think it was blademaster* or armaster*. He was murder on Skydrakes.
--
-BillyBoy
Herbert DM Yeung
You think that Sir Harold is an excellent warrior?!? I think that, of
the Champions, only Aerie and Sir Harold aren't that great. Mystic X I
don't really care for either, (don't know why they upgraded him to
Champion status) but he isn't that bad. Aerie just dies much too quickly,
and she can't affect undead very well because her attack is illusion.
Sir Harold is good for keeping in the back because of his leadership
abilities, but he is terrible as a fighter. Now, since First Strike and
Magic Immunity is downgraded, I even keep Roland in the back. The only
reason I keep them around now is because they are both Legendary. (Just
love that Fame bonus. It seems to reduce your upkeep by one gold per fame
point.) Also, notice how weak Roland has become? Now, it seems that
my favorite hero, Fang, is even more powerful than before? ;)
Go Fang!, the only naturally flying hero/Champion.
(BTW, only Torin and Fang, IMHO, are the best heroes/Champions.)
--
Herbert D.M. Yeung (hye...@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu)
Herbert DM Yeung
Personally, I find that it's fun to summon a Sky Drake and send it out
conquering all of the enemy cities. However, I noticed that they have
balanced things out between all of the very rare summoned creatures.
Before, Sky Drakes were the most powerful summoned creatures. Now, when
I had my Invisible, Hasted, Blurred Sky Drake attacked a regular Great
Drake, I finally won, but survived with only two hearts remaining. Also,
before, I said that Arch Angels, Demon Lords, Death Knights, and Colosses
did notcompare with the rest of the very rare creatures, Sky Drakes, Great
Drakes, Great Wyrms, and Behomeths. But now, a nasty Arch Angel fought
against my Sky Drake and did considerable damage, about a third or so.
Beforehand, they would do absolutely nothing. I'm glad that they balanced
out the very rare creatures more. Now, it may be worthwhile to summon
an Arch Angel to help out my heroes.
<stuff deleted>
Jeffrey Robert King
: In article <3jslqi$j...@explorer.clark.net> sp...@clark.net (DriveBy Billy) writes:
: >In article <3jl2jv$7...@rainbow.rmii.com>,
: >Will Dieterich <wdie...@rmii.com> wrote:
: >
: >>personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
: >>find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
: >>be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
: >>summoned creature.
: >
: > Torin isn't shabby at all, but try some summoned Champions like
: >Mystic X or Warrax. Warrax at present for me at Grand Lord level has
: >27 swords, 33 ranged magic, Sage* +24 or more Arcane Power* +10. He is
: >also Armor Piercingm Prayermaster* + ??. He wears armour and can wield
: >sword/stave/mace/axe. Sir Harold and Roland make excellent warriors.
: >With Mystic X and Warrax as your strong Mage/Warrior types. Elena the
: >Priestess isn't shabby but Alorra is better in my opinion. Deth Stryke isn't
: >worth 10 gold per round. I usually find incarnation after I have my set of
: >six champions so I make due with Summon Champion.
: >--
: >-BillyBoy
: You think that Sir Harold is an excellent warrior?!? I think that, of
: the Champions, only Aerie and Sir Harold aren't that great. Mystic X I
: don't really care for either, (don't know why they upgraded him to
: Champion status) but he isn't that bad. Aerie just dies much too quickly,
: and she can't affect undead very well because her attack is illusion.
Try some defensive items/enchantments, Heroism, etc. Mystic X
frequently has arcane power. Aerie has illusion, which works
normally against undead, and ignores armor completely against
anything not illusion-immune. (Note that illusory units -
Phantom Warriors and Phantom Beasts - can still be fooled by
illusions!) The one I don't find much use for is Aureus - he's
just not good at anything.
: Sir Harold is good for keeping in the back because of his leadership
: abilities, but he is terrible as a fighter. Now, since First Strike and
: Magic Immunity is downgraded, I even keep Roland in the back. The only
: reason I keep them around now is because they are both Legendary. (Just
: love that Fame bonus. It seems to reduce your upkeep by one gold per fame
: point.) Also, notice how weak Roland has become? Now, it seems that
: my favorite hero, Fang, is even more powerful than before? ;)
What's so great about Fang? I would rather have thrown then
breath, thrown is not negated by magic immunity. Flight is easy
for a Sorcerer.
: Go Fang!, the only naturally flying hero/Champion.
Go Jaer, the only hero that makes all the others flying. No
more screwing around with galleys and not being able to get a
ship on the Myrror plane.
Go Yramrag, the only hero that can doom bolt.
: (BTW, only Torin and Fang, IMHO, are the best heroes/Champions.)
Well, obviously Torin. Hell, there's an entire separate spell
just to summon him. But I would say that Fang is not all that
great - I'd rather have Morgana, Malleus, Yramrag, Jaer, Aerie,
Warrax, Elana, Ravashack, Serena, or Greyfairer. (Do you notice
I have a bias towards magic-using heroes? I just love casting
four combat enchantments, a death spell, and a flame strike all
on the first round of combat.. :>) Anyone I left out here?
Mystic X, if he has arcane power, otherwise he's not that great.
: --
: Herbert D.M. Yeung (hye...@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu)
DriveBy Billy
Herbert DM Yeung <hye...@uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> wrote:
>You think that Sir Harold is an excellent warrior?!? I think that, of
>the Champions, only Aerie and Sir Harold aren't that great. Mystic X I
>don't really care for either, (don't know why they upgraded him to
>Champion status) but he isn't that bad. Aerie just dies much too quickly,
>and she can't affect undead very well because her attack is illusion.
Well, I help my champions out <wink>, since their primary purpose
is to crack nodes and deal with unruly wizards. The mana cost for the six
per turn is about 25+ each depending on if they picked up any good eq
while node cracking. Sir Harold usually has con*+, might*+, blademaster and
armsmaster which are ideal for warriors. I provide the magic immunity and
invulnerabilty. He gets beat up but he lives and with 40+ swords he does
the job when I heal during battle. Same can be said for Roland, but he also
has the protection from breath and gaze attacks and armor piercing. I need
fighters to beating up on Sky Drakes and to close quickly on those damn
collosi. I tend to agree with you on Aerie, if she has a spell book with
illusionary spells and illusionary attacks <ranged> there is value if you
know how to use it. I will see this next game. Mystic X as a ranged attacker
does need help, but he has alot of hp too with con*+ and sage+ helps too.
He usually has Arcane+ and agility(*)+. In fact he has the best shields of
all my chars and alot of hp too. Warrax is the man though. If I had a
choice in the matter I'd go Torin, Warrax, Roland, Alorra, Malleus then
a toss up for the final choice of Morgana, Ymrang, Fang or Marcus.
>(BTW, only Torin and Fang, IMHO, are the best heroes/Champions.)
Fang with invulnerabilty and magic immunity from spells or
objects would lead my armies, too bad he does have wind walking. I have
Fang this game, now I need to grab Warrax for to complement him.
--
-BillyBoy
Pat LaFreniere
: Ooh, eeh, ooh ah ah. Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang!
Should read:
Ooh, eeh, ooh ah ah. Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang!
;)
Pat LaFreniere
: I usually have mana up the gazoo, money too by mid game. It is
: best to put it to use. There is no bonus for having 30000 mana at game
: end. The drawback for me is the casting time <wink>. A misc item with
: 4 attack, 4 defense and 2 hit is about 3950.
If you have that much mana at the end of the game maybe early in the
game you should crank up the skill bar(staff/candle/?) and crank
down the mana bar :-)
Martin Schafer
>
>In article <D5G21...@ssbunews.ih.att.com> rai...@apxws48.ih.att.com (Rob Buchner) writes:
>>In article <795062...@hkchan.pc.my>,
>>Chan Hoong Keong <hkc...@hkchan.pc.my> wrote:
>>>
>>>In article <3jl2jv$7...@rainbow.rmii.com> wdie...@rmii.com writes:
>>>
>>> > personally I find most summoned creatures to be worthless, the only ones I
>>> > find of any use are phantom warriors, and phantom beasts, becase they can
>>> > be summoned during battle. Also Torrin the Chosen as a hero is a great
>>> > summoned creature.
>>>
>>> My opinion differs. A full stack of strong summoned creatures are the only
>>> battle formation that can guarantee to reach enemies units in time in
>>> order to engage in hand-to-hand combats. While regular armies units are
>>> cheaper and as effective most of the time, they simply have too few hit
>>> points as compared to summoned creatures.
>>
>>I agree with the original poster. The only summoned creature I ever
>>bother with are phantom warriers (in combat to wear down an opponent),
>>and then only early in the game. Mana is better spent elsewhere than
>>in supporting summoned creatures. Properly utilized normal units
>>can be used effectively in all battle situations. If I send in troops
In general I prefer normal units, but there are some important
exceptions. The quickest wins available are taking an eleven
spell book Death Magician, or an eleven spell book Nature Magician.
Put all your mana into mana production and begin summoning either
a wraith (death) or a gorgon (nature). I've taken over both planes
with only a wraith and a shadow demon, or with two gorgons. 1407 wins
in both cases.
There are several other situations in which a summoned creature or
so, early on is useful. A Basilisk or for sorcery a naga or two
can take any neutral town, and sometimes an enemy's capitol if you
get there early enough.
Martin
Eli Nelson
Someday I'm going to hear this song again and prove you *all* wrong :)
E "trying not to start a senseless thread but unable to resist the
temptation to respond"
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooh, eeh, ooh ah ah. Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang!
Ooh, eeh, ooh, ah ah, ting tang walla walla walla bing!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DriveBy Billy
Pat LaFreniere <pla...@news.hookup.net> wrote:
>If you have that much mana at the end of the game maybe early in the
>game you should crank up the skill bar(staff/candle/?) and crank
>down the mana bar :-)
Hi, I do at midgame my skill is about 250 and 375 by game-end. I
defend nodes with 1 char but summon up the yang <wink> when in battle.
At 250 skill 3950 is a long way to finish. I usually move my heroes back
to the keep for a boost to 500+. I usually need at least 6 misc items too.
--
-BillyBoy
Rob Buchner
Martin Schafer <sch...@walleye.network.com> wrote:
>In general I prefer normal units, but there are some important
>exceptions. The quickest wins available are taking an eleven
>spell book Death Magician, or an eleven spell book Nature Magician.
>Put all your mana into mana production and begin summoning either
>a wraith (death) or a gorgon (nature). I've taken over both planes
>with only a wraith and a shadow demon, or with two gorgons. 1407 wins
>in both cases.
What version, what difficulty level, how many opponents?
--
Rob Buchner
rai...@ihlpf.ih.att.com
Rob Buchner
And what pray tell is the year when you reach game-end?
--
Rob Buchner
rai...@ihlpf.ih.att.com
DriveBy Billy
Rob Buchner <rai...@apxws48.ih.att.com> wrote:
>And what pray tell is the year when you reach game-end?
Got me. I finish after I have killed everything on the maps and
every ruin and node. I usually finish in the %52 range. I have my own agenda
not some arbitrary high score guide. I truly am the Master of both worlds
when I win since there isn't anyone else alive even raiders. I don't get
the superhigh + fame bonuses since I *raze* Gnolls and Klackons on sight and
anything that may isn't worth cultivating like a city with 2 green squares
in the middle of a Tundra.
--
-BillyBoy
Francis Chang
snip...
>Well, I had a Demi-God Aerie, who still got killed quite easily. And I
My Demi-God Aerie, who is loaded with goodies just banished Lo Pan by herself.
Lo Pan had 7 Great Drakes (no that's not a typo), a Djinn, and a Chaos Spawn.
The computer AI wasn't smart enough to get out of the castle and go after
her, and instead, all the units stayed inside the castle waiting to be
butchered. Once Lo Pan had wasted all his combat mana, he was history (thank
god for Regeneration).
No summon creature beats a well equiped hero (hint: Artificer).
Herbert DM Yeung
>
>: You think that Sir Harold is an excellent warrior?!? I think that, of
>: the Champions, only Aerie and Sir Harold aren't that great. Mystic X I
>: don't really care for either, (don't know why they upgraded him to
>: Champion status) but he isn't that bad. Aerie just dies much too quickly,
>: and she can't affect undead very well because her attack is illusion.
>
>Try some defensive items/enchantments, Heroism, etc. Mystic X
>frequently has arcane power. Aerie has illusion, which works
>normally against undead, and ignores armor completely against
>anything not illusion-immune. (Note that illusory units -
>Phantom Warriors and Phantom Beasts - can still be fooled by
>illusions!) The one I don't find much use for is Aureus - he's
>just not good at anything.
>
Well, I had a Demi-God Aerie, who still got killed quite easily. And I
try to spread my items evenly, to the best possible effects. Spells, I
try to put on them, but I am usually always casting some global spell or
other. For some reason, all of the monsters/enemy wizards tend to go after
Aerie first, killing her off. Unless she is flying, invisible, and magic-
immune, she doesn't tend to fare well. Plus, there seems to be a bug
in her illusionary attack. Whenever I try to blast some Death units with
her, she does virtually nothing, and this is with her at Demi-God level.
Warryx on the other hand was doing quite well. At least she can cast
Mind Storm, which is great with Confusion. ;)
The Golden One is a Fighter-Mage type. He has the advantage of versatility,
but is quite average, being worse of than someone who specializes, like
Gunthur, or Malleus. Notice that this does not include Champions like
Torin or Warryx, who are ... Champions. ;)
>: Sir Harold is good for keeping in the back because of his leadership
>: abilities, but he is terrible as a fighter. Now, since First Strike and
>: Magic Immunity is downgraded, I even keep Roland in the back. The only
>: reason I keep them around now is because they are both Legendary. (Just
>: love that Fame bonus. It seems to reduce your upkeep by one gold per fame
>: point.) Also, notice how weak Roland has become? Now, it seems that
>: my favorite hero, Fang, is even more powerful than before? ;)
>
>What's so great about Fang? I would rather have thrown then
>breath, thrown is not negated by magic immunity. Flight is easy
>for a Sorcerer.
>
Well, for one thing, he is flying. Don't have to worry about that nasty
Disenchant True, which can mean death for your other flying heroes. Plus,
he looks neat! ;) I mean, having a Dragon as your hero is pretty fun.
Plus, you can have a flying hero even if you don't play Sorcery magic. I
like Fang, especially when I am playing all Life. True, Thrown is better
than Breath when you are fighting Magic Immune creatures, but how often
do you do that? (Excepting Sky Drakes and Paladins ;) Plus, Gunthur and
Shalla don't have flying. Don't have to bother with 5 upkeep, especially
in the beginning of the game, when you can't afford it.
>: Go Fang!, the only naturally flying hero/Champion.
>
>Go Jaer, the only hero that makes all the others flying. No
>more screwing around with galleys and not being able to get a
>ship on the Myrror plane.
>
True, but since he is a pure mage, he also tend to get targeted/killed. Plus,
his ranged attacks don't seem to be as effective as others.
>Go Yramrag, the only hero that can doom bolt.
>
True, but to be able to Doom Bolt, you have to have him pretty high level.
Plus, Doom Bolt isn't all that useful, (unless you have a large bunch of
Warlocks) since you need several to take out that Great Wyrm/Great Drake/etc
which you can't cast since it takes up so much mana. I notice I tend to do
more damage just blasting them with my ranged attacks which only take up
3 mana. Even Warlocks tend to do more damage with their ranged attacks than
with Doom Bolt. The time to use it is when you are down to one or two
figures. Then give them one last shot before you get killed. ;)
>: (BTW, only Torin and Fang, IMHO, are the best heroes/Champions.)
>
>Well, obviously Torin. Hell, there's an entire separate spell
>just to summon him. But I would say that Fang is not all that
>great - I'd rather have Morgana, Malleus, Yramrag, Jaer, Aerie,
>Warrax, Elana, Ravashack, Serena, or Greyfairer. (Do you notice
>I have a bias towards magic-using heroes? I just love casting
>four combat enchantments, a death spell, and a flame strike all
>on the first round of combat.. :>) Anyone I left out here?
>Mystic X, if he has arcane power, otherwise he's not that great.
>
Well, I agree that Morgana, Malleus, Yramrag, Jaer, Warryx, Eland, Serena
(a favorite, since she can cast healing), and Greyfairer are pretty good.
I don't use all fighters for my heroes, that would be insane. ;)
However, as noted before, I don't care for Aerie, plus Ravashack, IMHO,
the single most useless Champion/spell caster. He is the weakest, I believe,
so that he will be singled out before any other hero/Champion, plus his
ranged attack is not very effective, especially against undead, like Aerie's.
Also, he doesn't life drain, except in melee, which is suicidal for any
mage, let alone someone wearing a "hit me" sign on his back. Plus, he
can't create undead very well, like Wraiths/Death Knights/Demon Lords, and
when he does finally create some, the game crashes! I have to admit though,
this is for v1.2 They may have corrected the life draining/create undead
bugs by now. I posted about it a while back, but I don't think they noticed
it.
As a side note, do the Vampiric magic items actually work? I gave Fang
one of those magic weapons with it, and it seemed to do nothing. Perhaps
it's because he fried them with his breath first, but I believe I gave it
to other heroes, and it seemed to do nothing either. I know life draining
works, cause I see Wraiths healing, but not my heroes.
Herbert DM Yeung
(Notice that they are all naturally Famous? ;) I like to go for those
high scores. Can't seem to beat my roommate's score of 115% with all Death.
:( ). The sixth would be Fang, of course ;), who has Might, Constitution,
and Fame perferably.
>>(BTW, only Torin and Fang, IMHO, are the best heroes/Champions.)
>
> Fang with invulnerabilty and magic immunity from spells or
>objects would lead my armies, too bad he does have wind walking. I have
>Fang this game, now I need to grab Warrax for to complement him.
>--
>-BillyBoy
Laura Downs
>>Eli Nelson (fne...@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu) wrote:
>>: Ooh, eeh, ooh ah ah. Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang!
>>: Ooh, eeh, ooh, ah ah, ting tang walla walla walla bing!
>>: ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>Should read:
>>Ooh, eeh, ooh ah ah. Ting, tang, walla walla bing bang!
>>Ooh, eeh, ooh, ah ah, ting tang walla walla bing bang!
Well, actually my friend the witch doctor told me what to say, and it was:
Ooh, Eeh, ooh-Ah-Ah. Ting, Tang, walla-walla Bing-bang!
Ooh-eeh, ooh-Ah-Ah, ting-Tang-walla-walla-bing Bang!
>Someday I'm going to hear this song again and prove you *all* wrong :)
>E "trying not to start a senseless thread but unable to resist the
>temptation to respond"
Too much fun.
--
Laura Downs (la...@cs.berkeley.edu)
"You say I'm not making any sense? I'm under no onus to make any sense!"
-heard on Sproul Plaza, UC Berkeley
Martin Schafer
4 and Impossible of course I never play anything else. I haven't
gotten 1.3 yet so that's 1.2. First thing I'll do with 1.3 is see
if I can replicate it. Odds are good unless they've cranked up
the other wizard's initial mana and production bonuses.
Martin
Jeffrey Robert King
: In article <D5t6v...@news.hawaii.edu>,
: snip...
I'll go you one better: I banished Sss'ra with Deth Stryke. Yes, Deth Stryke,
the hero with no special abilities worth anything - except that this game
he happened to have constitution and might, neither of which is normal for him.
I had a fairly good, but not max, weapon and armor, and of course, he was at
Super-Hero level, but still, he defeated a 9-stack singlehandedly, with only
a minimum of magical support (3 healings, IIRC.. he would have lived anyway,
but been wounded.) BTW, this was not an easy 9-stack... multiple beastmen
priests, 2 or 3 minotaurs, some chimeras, etc.
Returning to Aerie - I'll concede that she's no match for Warrax, Malleus,
or Yramrag, but she is still very effective, especially when properly equipped.
: No summon creature beats a well equiped hero (hint: Artificer).
Second hint: Heroism. Third hint: Warlord. Fourth hint: Crusade.
Warlord will do far more for your ability to get and maintain powerful
heroes than either Famous or Charismatic, or both together. And it boosts
your normal units, too: champion Rangers are fun!
Ultimate combo IMX: LLLLSSS Alchemy, Warlord, Artificer.
(The Alchemy is for the normal units, and not having to worry about mana.)
You will be better off if you can trade with other users: due to your low
'concentration' of picks, you may have trouble getting rare/v.rare spells.
In fact, it might be worthwhile to broaden your base instead, with say
LLLSSCC, or LLLSSCN - using much spell trading to fill in the realms you
only dabble in.
Strategy: Get heroes, and keep them. Cast Heroism on them. (Also cast it
on normal units - U.E's with magic weapons are no joke.) Most valuable
spells = Summon Hero (obviously), Summon Champion (duh), Crusade.
Life/Sorcery has all the defensive stuff, and if you choose to add a little
bit of Chaos or Nature it will give you some offensive punch for combat
support.
DriveBy Billy
Jeffrey Robert King <jr...@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>Second hint: Heroism. Third hint: Warlord. Fourth hint: Crusade.
>
>Warlord will do far more for your ability to get and maintain powerful
>heroes than either Famous or Charismatic, or both together. And it boosts
>your normal units, too: champion Rangers are fun!
>
>Ultimate combo IMX: LLLLSSS Alchemy, Warlord, Artificer.
>(The Alchemy is for the normal units, and not having to worry about mana.)
>
>You will be better off if you can trade with other users: due to your low
>'concentration' of picks, you may have trouble getting rare/v.rare spells.
>In fact, it might be worthwhile to broaden your base instead, with say
>LLLSSCC, or LLLSSCN - using much spell trading to fill in the realms you
>only dabble in.
Hello, Fellow Warlords. I agree with all you said. Now let me take it
one step further ---> Warlord & Fighter Guilds & Crusade & Altar of Battle =
All starting units start at Champion levels. You will have to go one step up
to Armorer's Guild for special units like Paladins, but with this setup
just turn on your slinger factory <champion level>. It is the optimum setup
on Impossible level. Heaven help anyone if you get Mass Invisibility.
A champion level slinger has 3hp + 4hit Lucky +5 base stones and no creature
can kill an entire unit taking 2 attacks. Champion Pikemen and/or Barbarian
Calvary are the Vikings of old Norse Legends.
--
-BillyBoy
Zhen Zhong Zou
Thomas Stockheim (to...@rama.informatik.rwth-aachen.de) wrote:
: rai...@apxws48.ih.att.com (Rob Buchner) writes:
-perhaps you didn't try maellus(?) the magician with flaming staff at
high level. about 42 magical range attack!!! I usually could take out
one sky drake with no more than 2 range attack with maellus?
-ever try Torin(demi god) with flight! take out one sky drake with one
melee attack(don't forget your super weapon with chaos and destruction
attack) with minimal damage
-ever try Champion adamantium berserker with lionheart
-how about Chaos Warrior(demi god) with Theodore liberator??
-how about web and then crack call
-and I could go on forever......
*** any one will be welcome to add to this list I got tired***
first rule in MOM no single unit is invincible not even Torin
with invulerability + flight + spell lock.
you could alway web + crack call(who say web is useless?)
: Thomas
John Sheridan
Zou) writes:
Regarding the veracity of Sky Drakes: I consistently defeat multiple
Sky Drakes with Ultra-Elite (Warlord option, War College) Magic-weaponed
(Alchemist) Paladins. I have defeated nine (on the IMPOSSIBLE setting)
with only three of these paladin units, and without casting any spells.
Am I misunderstanding the subject here? For me, it's the damn Great
Drakes that tend to nix my Ultra-Paladins half the time. Then again,
like Elric--one of my favorite fantastic heroes--I am loath to use
sorcery unless absolutely necessary.
John Sheridan, Sacramento, CA. (jshe...@ix.netcom.com)
***** End Message
Thomas Stockheim
>: Are you so sure ? Ever used a Sky Dragon with guardian wind ?
>: If handled right, nothing can hurt him !
I wrote this from my experience with older versions, where the magic
immunity bug helped sky dragons a lot. In 1.31, they are not as strong
anymore, however ...
>-perhaps you didn't try maellus(?) the magician with flaming staff at
> high level. about 42 magical range attack!!! I usually could take out
> one sky drake with no more than 2 range attack with maellus?
>-ever try Torin(demi god) with flight! take out one sky drake with one
> melee attack(don't forget your super weapon with chaos and destruction
> attack) with minimal damage
>-ever try Champion adamantium berserker with lionheart
perhaps, but only if they get to attack first !
>-how about Chaos Warrior(demi god) with Theodore liberator??
>-how about web and then crack call
This is the only thing the computer would do against you.
>-and I could go on forever......
>*** any one will be welcome to add to this list I got tired***
> first rule in MOM no single unit is invincible not even Torin
>with invulerability + flight + spell lock.
> you could alway web + crack call(who say web is useless?)
Invincible if you add wraith form to it !
But - the computer never makes any of these units !
Thats what i was referring to, you can use sky drakes against most
things the computer has, except perhaps a stack of nine great drakes.