Transport Tycoon: Incredible Disappointment!

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David J. Calvin

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Dec 8, 1994, 10:57:06 PM12/8/94
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At first, this was one of the greatest games I'd ever played. I loved it,
I was so addicted it wasn't funny. Pretty soon I hit my station limit and
got a little annoyed.

But, that wasn't too bad, I just had to consolidate some stations together,
and it didn't interfere with the game too much. I was still having fun.
Then in 1990, I hit the vehicle limit. Not the player limit, but the global
limit that doesn't let you build railroad cars.

Now I was pissed. I couldn't build anything else! I trashed some
computer road vehicles, but I was still rather limited. I just went around
replace trains that weren't so profitable. The game was still pretty fun,
but not nearly as good as it used to be.

Then in 2009, the fun disappeared. My monorails started going into depots,
coming out and going right back in again endlessly. I tried everything and
the only way to get them to stop was to trash the depot. Soon every ship
I had was doing the same thing and my trains were starting. Now the
game was ruined, all my vehicles were messing up and making no money.

I'm pretty annoyed about this as it totally ends the game. I wrote to
Microprose and am awaiting a response. The same thing happened to my
roommate, BTW, it's not just limited to me.

My advice to people considering buying this game: don't! It was incredible
fun for a while, but just sets you up for constant disappointments and
eventually becomes totally useless.

--
Dave Calvin | Star Trek, DOOM, GUS, Star Wars,
cal...@rpi.edu | Atari 2600, 486DX2-66, Starcon 2,
Computer Engineering - `97 | Aliens, PGP, BBS, HUGE, Usenet,
PGP key available by finger| Simpsons, Monty Python, Rush, XCOM!

Robert Court

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Dec 9, 1994, 1:36:55 PM12/9/94
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In article <3c8kii$c...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J. Calvin) says:
>
>At first, this was one of the greatest games I'd ever played. I loved it,
>I was so addicted it wasn't funny. Pretty soon I hit my station limit and
>got a little annoyed.
(snip)

>Then in 1990, I hit the vehicle limit. Not the player limit, but the global
>limit that doesn't let you build railroad cars.
(snip)

I'm afraid I have to agree with this - from being a total addict I too am
disappointed by the long-term playability. Perhaps MPS UK read this group
and will ask Chris Sawyer if something can be done to remove the
restrictions on units. Then the game really would be Paradise on a
monitor.


********************************
Robert Court
rob...@court.cityscape.co.uk
********************************

brook Heimbaugh

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Dec 9, 1994, 3:41:31 PM12/9/94
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In article <3ca847$4...@ns.cityscape.co.uk>, rob...@court.cityscape.co.uk (Robert Court) says:
>In article <3c8kii$c...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J. Calvin) says:
>>
>>At first, this was one of the greatest games I'd ever played. I loved it,
>>I was so addicted it wasn't funny. Pretty soon I hit my station limit and
>>got a little annoyed.
>(snip)
>>Then in 1990, I hit the vehicle limit. Not the player limit, but the global
>>limit that doesn't let you build railroad cars.
>(snip)
>
>I'm afraid I have to agree with this - from being a total addict I too am
>disappointed by the long-term playability. Perhaps MPS UK read this group
>and will ask Chris Sawyer if something can be done to remove the
>restrictions on units. Then the game really would be Paradise on a
>monitor.

I had the same problem with Railroad Tycoon - I was considering T.T., but
now I think I'll wait & see...

-----------------------|-------------------------|---------------------------
Brook Heimbaugh | E-mail: br...@bga.com | Voice: (512) 448-2728
2214 Tallow Ct. |-------------------------|---------------------------
Austin, TX 78744-3257 | CServe: !Canceled! | Fax/Data: (512) 440-1032
-----------------------|-------------------------|---------------------------

Ergie

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Dec 9, 1994, 8:29:33 PM12/9/94
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In article <3c8kii$c...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J.
Calvin) says:>>

>At first, this was one of the greatest games I'd ever played. I loved it,
>I was so addicted it wasn't funny. Pretty soon I hit my station limit and
>got a little annoyed.
(snip)
>Then in 1990, I hit the vehicle limit. Not the player limit, but the global
>limit that doesn't let you build railroad cars.
(snip)


Is this ture? I loved RRT but the 32 train limit made the long term
playability extremely limited. I was gonna get TT next weekend (after
finals :)) but with this vehicle limit, I don't...

--Ergie

David J. Calvin

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Dec 10, 1994, 1:17:05 PM12/10/94
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Ergie (mex...@psu.edu) wrote:
: In article <3c8kii$c...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J.
: Calvin) says:>>

Yes, the limits are definitely there. There is both an individual player
limit and a global limit. The individual limit allows 80 cars, 80 trains,
50 boats and 40 planes. This limit only counts engines on trains though,
it's really not that bad. Then there is the global limit which even counts
cars on trains, so it's pretty easy to hit it, and your competitors stuff
counts too. This along with the bugs I've encountered ruin the game, I
wouldn't buy it. It's too bad too, it was such an excellent game up till
that point.

Chris Smith

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Dec 10, 1994, 9:25:55 PM12/10/94
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In article <3ccrb1$4...@usenet.rpi.edu> cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J. Calvin) writes:
Then there is the global limit which even counts
cars on trains, so it's pretty easy to hit it, and your competitors stuff
counts too. This along with the bugs I've encountered ruin the game, I
wouldn't buy it.

I don't mean to start an argument about this, but I really disagree.
TT is a keeper. It's fantastic.

It's conceivable that the global limit is due to filling up memory --
you could perhaps find out by running it under OS/2 if you have it
around, giving it 16 or 32 meg. Or it might run under Windows.
Unlikely it would be playable -- VM is not magic -- but you could at
least tell if more memory would remove the limit.

Or just play with fewer competitors. I'm all the way up to 1936 or
something and I don't care what happens, I've already got my money's worth.

TT is a historic event -- a version 1 Microprose game that is finished,
and works correctly. (Not to mention that it's *great*.)

David J. Calvin

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Dec 11, 1994, 12:33:14 AM12/11/94
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Chris Smith (csm...@convex.com) wrote:

: I don't mean to start an argument about this, but I really disagree.


: TT is a keeper. It's fantastic.

: It's conceivable that the global limit is due to filling up memory --
: you could perhaps find out by running it under OS/2 if you have it
: around, giving it 16 or 32 meg. Or it might run under Windows.
: Unlikely it would be playable -- VM is not magic -- but you could at
: least tell if more memory would remove the limit.

: Or just play with fewer competitors. I'm all the way up to 1936 or
: something and I don't care what happens, I've already got my money's worth.

I doubt it's memory based, my roommate has 4 megs and I have 8, and he
and I seem to have approximately the same vehicle limit. I definitely
do not have twice as many vehicles.

I agree it could be a great game, up until the 90's I loved it, thought
it was one of the best ever. Wait until you hit limits or even bugs
which stop every vehicle you have from working, you may not enjoy the
game as much. The same game without limits or bugs would be one of my
alltime favorites though. I'm still awaiting a reply from Microprose,
somehow I get the feeling nothing will be done about these problems.

Jim Borynec

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Dec 11, 1994, 1:01:36 AM12/11/94
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In article <3ccrb1$4...@usenet.rpi.edu>,

David J. Calvin <cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>Ergie (mex...@psu.edu) wrote:
>: In article <3c8kii$c...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J.
>: Calvin) says:>>
>
>: >At first, this was one of the greatest games I'd ever played. I loved it,
>: >I was so addicted it wasn't funny. Pretty soon I hit my station limit and
>: >got a little annoyed.
>: (snip)
>: >Then in 1990, I hit the vehicle limit. Not the player limit, but the global
>: >limit that doesn't let you build railroad cars.
>: (snip)
>

I for one am rather grateful for vehicle limits. I am running a game
(at 1970) where there are LOTS of vehicles. The computer is
so slow that it can only process about 1 year every hour and that
speed is only if I don't muck with it. I found this out after
leaving the machine on, going to bed and waking up 8 years later :-).

I am running a 33 Mhz 486 and if the limits weren't there I would
soon choke up the universe and NEVER get a chance to finish.

jb.

D Israels

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Dec 11, 1994, 2:05:03 AM12/11/94
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In article <3ccrb1$4...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David
J. Calvin) writes:

>then there is the global limit which even counts


>cars on trains, so it's pretty easy to hit it, and your competitors stuff
>counts too. This along with the bugs I've encountered ruin the game, I
>wouldn't buy it. It's too bad too, it was such an excellent game up till
>that point.

I heartily disagree. The global limits in the game do not ruin game play.
They change it. In the latter part of the game it becomes one less of
madly building to one of consolidating and improving. Instead of putting
stations all over the game map you learn to optimize the stations you
have. Do you keep them where they are? etc. Again the same with the
vehicle limits. If you hit that limit it's probably because you have a
goodly number of vehicles not making that much $. Find them, get rid of
them and build more profitable ones on different runs.

Remember, in the real world a company doesn't just keep building willy
nilly it learns to make do with a limited resources. If you can think of
the global limits as just another resource limitation the game continues
to hold fascinating possiblities.

To those considering buying this game I say go for it. It will likely be a
marketing winner because it is a first-class ticket to gaming pleasure.

Enjoy.

David J. Calvin

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Dec 11, 1994, 12:46:52 PM12/11/94
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Jim Borynec (jbor...@tigger.edtel.alta.net) wrote:
: In article <3ccrb1$4...@usenet.rpi.edu>,

But mine hasn't slowed down that much, why should I have a limit? You should
at least be able to turn the limits on or off.

David J. Calvin

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Dec 11, 1994, 12:48:34 PM12/11/94
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D Israels (disr...@aol.com) wrote:

: I heartily disagree. The global limits in the game do not ruin game play.


: They change it. In the latter part of the game it becomes one less of
: madly building to one of consolidating and improving. Instead of putting
: stations all over the game map you learn to optimize the stations you
: have. Do you keep them where they are? etc. Again the same with the
: vehicle limits. If you hit that limit it's probably because you have a
: goodly number of vehicles not making that much $. Find them, get rid of
: them and build more profitable ones on different runs.

I don't think the limits ruin it either, they just hinder gameplay. However,
the bug I encounter where all my vehicles just went to depots ruined it.
None were making any profit or going anywhere other than depots. That's
what ruined the game for me.

Jeffrey C. Parker

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Dec 11, 1994, 4:41:36 PM12/11/94
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I've had Transport Tycoon for little over a week now and I think it is fabulous. Two of my friends have gotten
hooked on playing now, for hours on end. We now play it in shifts..I tend to play during the day and they play it at night. All
three of us think it's one of the best games we've ever played. Several other people have stopped by to watch us play and
now they are considering buying the game, too. I have encountered to limits, and my PC does slow down (it's a 486DX/33), but
they have not been a problem for me. So, basically, I highly recommend buying this game.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey C. Parker E-mail: jpa...@vt.edu
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, Virginia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark Harris

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Dec 12, 1994, 5:28:02 AM12/12/94
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In <3cdnvj$3...@magnum.convex.com>, csm...@convex.com (Chris Smith) writes:
>In article <3ccrb1$4...@usenet.rpi.edu> cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J. Calvin) writes:

[snip]


>It's conceivable that the global limit is due to filling up memory --
>you could perhaps find out by running it under OS/2 if you have it

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If only !! I've tried everything to get this sucker to run under OS/2 but as soon as you
touch anything to do with trains it bombs !! I've already tried the COMP.OS2.GAMES group
to see if anyone else had managed to get it working but I got no replies!

>around, giving it 16 or 32 meg. Or it might run under Windows.
>Unlikely it would be playable -- VM is not magic -- but you could at
>least tell if more memory would remove the limit.

WinDOZE is that ? Sorry the OS/2 bigot coming out in me !

>
>Or just play with fewer competitors. I'm all the way up to 1936 or
>something and I don't care what happens, I've already got my money's worth.
>
>TT is a historic event -- a version 1 Microprose game that is finished,
>and works correctly. (Not to mention that it's *great*.)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hummm, I'm not going to re-open the debate on trains going off on 'alternate' lines again.

I do agree that TT is pretty darn good but maybe they rushed it out for the pre-Christmas
sales just a little too quickly. I play it and will continue to do so but I've always got
a reminder about the various limits hanging about at the back of my mind (Ghee, that must
get lonely in there !! ;-) )

Mark Harris
CEO of The Yellow Peril Transport Company

Jamesy

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Dec 12, 1994, 9:29:00 AM12/12/94
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In article <D0p12...@unx.sas.com>,

suk...@mvs.sas.com (Mark Harris) writes:

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>If only !! I've tried everything to get this sucker to run under OS/2 but as soon as you
>touch anything to do with trains it bombs !! I've already tried the COMP.OS2.GAMES group
>to see if anyone else had managed to get it working but I got no replies!

Come off it d00d. (Yeah, I'm as American as you are.) The game is
toned down only to prevent you packamac clad, thermos huggers glasses
from steaming up like they do when you play a real game.

Why don't you get your wallet out and buy a real PC?


>
>WinDOZE is that ? Sorry the OS/2 bigot coming out in me !

Aiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!! Which magazine did you read that one in?


>
>>TT is a historic event -- a version 1 Microprose game that is finished,
>>and works correctly. (Not to mention that it's *great*.)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Hummm, I'm not going to re-open the debate on trains going off on 'alternate' lines again.

A historic event. Where're the smilies? I've not had so much fun since
Hornby bought out the InterCity 125.


>
>I do agree that TT is pretty darn good but maybe they rushed it out for the pre-Christmas

Oh hot-diggety-dang. You're one of the Beverley Hill-Billies!


>sales just a little too quickly. I play it and will continue to do so but I've always got
>a reminder about the various limits hanging about at the back of my mind (Ghee, that must
>get lonely in there !! ;-) )

Yeah. Like some sort of sensory deprevation tank.


>
>Mark Harris
>CEO of The Yellow Peril Transport Company
>

Jamesy
CinC of the Sad Trainspotters Club.

--
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!ny+++

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
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¦ =/ ~~ \= / ¦
¦ \ / Jamesy - SUK...@MVS.SAS.COM ¦
¦ / \ ¦
¦ / \ 'Civilise England's Licencing Laws' ¦
¦ | | ¦
¦ \ / My opinions - come and get me. ¦
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

D Israels

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Dec 12, 1994, 10:50:34 PM12/12/94
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In article <1994121209...@MVS.sas.com>, SUK...@MVS.sas.com (Jamesy)
writes:

Something silly.

But to those concerned about the station limit, I thought you might be
interested in comments Chris Sawyer, the designer of TT, has made about it
in an e-mail I got from him this evening.

Sawyer said that he played the latter part of the game in an optimizing
mode rather than a heavy building mode and that " I find this
'optimisation' process very satisfying, as it makes the network more
efficient and profitable, and can quite often cause computer-controlled
routes to close because their services don't get enough cargo to be
profitable- thereby also releasing some station 'slots'."

He also said that "one of my most successful games has been one where I
have set up very long multiple-track railways between distant industries
and used several trains to generate very large incomes - perhaps
players...should try this strategy rather than connecting up every pair of
adjacent towns and industries they can find."

Sawyer also said that "I sympathise with players who find this limit
irritating" but he would resist raising the station limit because
"increasing the limit from 200 to just 250 has a substantial effect on
game speed." The limit, Sawyer said, exists so that the game would "run at
an acceptable speed on a 486-33 machine."


David J. Calvin

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Dec 13, 1994, 1:31:20 PM12/13/94
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In article <3cj5ma$j...@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, disr...@aol.com (D Israels) writes:

|> Sawyer also said that "I sympathise with players who find this limit
|> irritating" but he would resist raising the station limit because
|> "increasing the limit from 200 to just 250 has a substantial effect on
|> game speed." The limit, Sawyer said, exists so that the game would "run at
|> an acceptable speed on a 486-33 machine."

So why not let players with faster machines have more stations/vehicles?
Many games test your machine speed and set the detail accordingly. TT should
set the limits accordingly. I shouldn't have the same limits as someone with
a 486-33 if I have a DX2-66. While a certain amount of "optimization" is fun,
sometimes I just want to be able set up a new route without tearing down an
old one. Is that too much to ask??

chris

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Dec 13, 1994, 7:14:09 PM12/13/94
to
In article <3cfduc$i...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David J. Calvin) says:
>But mine hasn't slowed down that much, why should I have a limit? You should
>at least be able to turn the limits on or off.

Ok here's as good a place as any for this question. In my options section
there is an untitled on/off switch could that be for vehicle limits?

Just curious

Chris

Ergie

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Dec 13, 1994, 8:17:31 PM12/13/94
to

>Ok here's as good a place as any for this question. In my options section
>there is an untitled on/off switch could that be for vehicle limits?

If it is then I'll go buy the game tomorrow!

--Ergie

David J. Calvin

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Dec 14, 1994, 12:48:07 AM12/14/94
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Ergie (mex...@psu.edu) wrote:

: >Ok here's as good a place as any for this question. In my options section


: >there is an untitled on/off switch could that be for vehicle limits?

: If it is then I'll go buy the game tomorrow!

I was hoping it was too, but that's not what it's for. I fooled around
with it a while, couldn't figure out what it did.

Peter Elfers

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Dec 15, 1994, 2:14:54 AM12/15/94
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In <3cj5ma$j...@newsbf01.news.aol.com> disr...@aol.com (D Israels) writes:

>In article <1994121209...@MVS.sas.com>, SUK...@MVS.sas.com (Jamesy)
>writes:

>Something silly.

>But to those concerned about the station limit, I thought you might be
>interested in comments Chris Sawyer, the designer of TT, has made about it
>in an e-mail I got from him this evening.

[lines deleted]

>Sawyer also said that "I sympathise with players who find this limit
>irritating" but he would resist raising the station limit because
>"increasing the limit from 200 to just 250 has a substantial effect on
>game speed." The limit, Sawyer said, exists so that the game would "run at
>an acceptable speed on a 486-33 machine."

Hi.
Can you please mail me Chris Sawyers email-address? I have lots of questions
to him.

Peter

Chris Smith

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Dec 16, 1994, 5:07:32 AM12/16/94
to
From: suk...@mvs.sas.com (Mark Harris)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 10:28:02 GMT

>you could perhaps find out by running it under OS/2 if you have it
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If only !! I've tried everything to get this sucker to run under
OS/2 but as soon as you touch anything to do with trains it bombs
!! I've already tried the COMP.OS2.GAMES group to see if anyone
else had managed to get it working but I got no replies!

Hmm, yeah. It works in a specific DOS session (i.e. run the DOS on C:).
It's probably irrelevant, but I gave it no DPMI, no EMS, 8 meg of XMS.

Chris Green

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Dec 20, 1994, 3:35:27 PM12/20/94
to
In article <3ce8av$h...@newsbf01.news.aol.com> disr...@aol.com (D Israels) writes:
> In article <3ccrb1$4...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cal...@magritte.its.rpi.edu (David
> J. Calvin) writes:
>
> >then there is the global limit which even counts
> >cars on trains, so it's pretty easy to hit it, and your competitors stuff
> >counts too. This along with the bugs I've encountered ruin the game, I
> >wouldn't buy it. It's too bad too, it was such an excellent game up till
> >that point.
>
> I heartily disagree. The global limits in the game do not ruin game play.
> They change it. In the latter part of the game it becomes one less of
> madly building to one of consolidating and improving. Instead of putting
> stations all over the game map you learn to optimize the stations you
> have. Do you keep them where they are? etc. Again the same with the
> vehicle limits. If you hit that limit it's probably because you have a
> goodly number of vehicles not making that much $. Find them, get rid of
> them and build more profitable ones on different runs.
>
> Remember, in the real world a company doesn't just keep building willy
> nilly it learns to make do with a limited resources. If you can think of
> the global limits as just another resource limitation the game continues
> to hold fascinating possiblities.
>
Have I got this right? You're trying to justify a vehicule limit by
saying its realistic? Oh yeah, like all real world transport companies
are restricted to 80 busses. If the programmers wanted to restrict a
company from not building 'willy nilly', then it should not be with an
unrealistic limit, but with added problems for larger corperations.

> To those considering buying this game I say go for it. It will likely be a
> marketing winner because it is a first-class ticket to gaming pleasure.
>

Its good so far for me, but I don't really feel the urge to play on now
that I know that my company won't be able to expand adequately.

James J Hoxsey

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Dec 21, 1994, 10:45:21 AM12/21/94
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In article <787981...@isbd.demon.co.uk> b...@isbd.demon.co.uk (Chris

Green) writes:
>In article <3ce8av$h...@newsbf01.news.aol.com> disr...@aol.com (D
>Israels) writes:
>>
>> Remember, in the real world a company doesn't just keep building willy
>> nilly it learns to make do with a limited resources. If you can think of
>> the global limits as just another resource limitation the game continues
>> to hold fascinating possiblities.
>>
>Have I got this right? You're trying to justify a vehicule limit by
>saying its realistic? Oh yeah, like all real world transport companies
>are restricted to 80 busses. If the programmers wanted to restrict a
>company from not building 'willy nilly', then it should not be with an
>unrealistic limit, but with added problems for larger corperations.
>
You're saying that "real world" transport companies aren't
limited to 80 busses. That is correct. However, "real world"
transport companies aren't limited to a world that is only an
approximate 25 square mile square (has anyone figured out the scale in
this game?). Therefore, a smaller world means lower limitations. A
smaller cake requires less sugar, flour, eggs, etc. The "real world"
isn't limited to 50m increments in altitudes. It isn't restricted to
only east/west and north/south roads. It isn't restricted to 8
compass points with railroads.
While it is a simulation of a real world, Transport Tycoon is
also a _strategy_ game. The vehicle limit is one more piece of the
puzzle that you have to work in. Without it, you would never get into
the "it's time to start cutting back" mode. You would just build and
build and never be forced to look at which routes are acutally
profitable.
I agree that the vehicle limit is a good idea. Too often in
this game I will have a train running back and forth from a coal mine
to a power station and just forget it. Later on in the game if I get
to the limit, it is time to start deciding what goes and what doesn't.

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in the tub and there's a | 700C Fairlane Plaza South
rub at the lamp." | 330 Town Center Dr. (313)337-1616
-- The Genie | Dearborn, MI 48126 USA FMEAplus(R)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Christopher G. Wood

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Dec 22, 1994, 1:35:03 PM12/22/94
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In article <3d9iih$i...@tbd120.tbd.ford.com>, jjho...@quality.pms.ford.com
(James J Hoxsey) wrote:


> While it is a simulation of a real world, Transport Tycoon is
> also a _strategy_ game. The vehicle limit is one more piece of the
> puzzle that you have to work in. Without it, you would never get into
> the "it's time to start cutting back" mode. You would just build and
> build and never be forced to look at which routes are acutally
> profitable.

All my routes were highly profitable when I hit the limit. Would a company
in real world say "it's time to start cutting back" if all the routes were
profitable? More likely, they'd say "let's keep expanding". The same
should be true in a _simulation_ of the real world.


> I agree that the vehicle limit is a good idea. Too often in
> this game I will have a train running back and forth from a coal mine
> to a power station and just forget it. Later on in the game if I get
> to the limit, it is time to start deciding what goes and what doesn't.
>

But the fact is that many people do NOT like the limit. Regardless of
whether it is intended to be part of the strategy of the game, a lot of
people just plain don't like it. This should be reason enough for Chris
Sawyer/Microprose to put in a toggle for the limits (none/small/large or
some such).

I returned the game to the store after I got bored with the game, almost
entirely due to the vehicle limits. I doubt anyone would return it because
it didn't have limits or because the limits could be toggled.

Christopher

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