Cactus Development and Ralph Rhodes
Eddie Kasica
little wars like the one between you and your neighbor over the damned
stereo or the barking dog or the car alarm.
I've been a customer of Cactus Development for almost 10 years now. Cactus,
IMHO, provides great products. And I think that most people in this
newsgroup know about the bunker mentality owner Ralph Rhodes has about his
released products, with an even stronger wall regarding items which are not
yet released.
Cactus has not released a single new product -- outside of season disks --
since the summer of 1997. Along the way, promises and hints had been made
about the following:
A Team Converter Utility for Cactus League Baseball. I think for depth &
width of single season play, there is nothing -- including Diamond Mind
Baseball -- that compares with CLIB. The strength of the game is also its
problem. So much work goes into each season that the time and cost involved
make it prohibitive for many to be released. So a Team Converter(a utility
that would allow season imports from any other baseball game) would be a
dream. Cactus has been promising this for 3 years now. The promise is still
on its website! No go. But since I thought I had a reasonable relationship
with a company I have supported and talked up for many years now, I have
repeatedly asked about the Converter. With no response.
AutoPlay for the Pro Basketball Game. Fact is, if you open up the basketball
game you find (under Utilities) that a place for AutoPlayoffs is there(but
not active). Again, promises were made and I followed up with questions
regarding the promises.
Hints that Windows versions of College & Pro Basketball and a brand new Pro
Football game have also emerged.
So, in response to the confirmation of AN ORDER I HAD PLACED, I typed the
following:
> > > > > > > At 08:39 PM 5/30/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > > > > >Thanks, Barb!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Can you answer some questions for me:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Wasup with Cactus Baseball Version 2?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Wasup with Cactus Pro Basketball for Windows?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Wasup with Cactus League Football?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Regards,
> > > > > > > >Eddie
The response was this:
> > > > > > > HI:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We haven't made any announcements about any of these.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Susan Williams
> > > > > > > Cactus Development Company, Inc.
> > > > > > > 7113 Burnet Road Suite 214
> > > > > > > Austin, Texas 78757-2216
Which, of course, is not true.
Then I wrote:
> > > > > At 12:26 AM 5/31/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > > >Great answer!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thanks for nothing.
> > > > > >
OK, I admit, "Thanks for nothing" may be somewhat cheeky. But I've asked
these questions -- in response to Cactus promises and hints -- for years
with the same "We haven't made any announcements about any of these" kind of
answers.
Susan Williams wrote back:
> > > > > Hey Eddie:
> > > > >
> > > > > We answered your question.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where did you get the misimpression that you could be rude to us?
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't be a jerk, OK? You don't have that right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Susan
Then me:
> > > >Susan,
> > > >
> > > >First off, your "rude threshold" is very low.
> > > >
> > > >Second, let's say I was rude. Where do I get the right? Well, let's
see: how
> > > >'bout from the fact that I've been asking these 3 questions for about
a year
> > > >now with no answers. Also, if you check your records, you'll see that
I've
> > > >bought just about everything your company has sold. EVERY pro b-ball
season.
> > > >The college basketball game with several seasons. And everything
baseball.
> > > >
> > > >Third, you guys have made promises (AutoPlayoff for Pro Basketball,
Team
> > > >Conversion Utility for the baseball game, etc.) that disappear over
time.
> > > >Maybe you should have more respect for the expectations of your
customers.
> > > >
> > > >And speaking of customers and expectations, I think the good folk
over at
> > > >the IBM Sports Games Newsgroup might find this exchange very
interesting.
> > > >
> > > >Unless, of course, I get an apology.
Mr. Ralph Rhoades himself steps in:
> >Hi Eddie:
> >
> >This was forwarded to me.
> >
> >Will you please cool it?
> >
> >We have done nothing but treat you with respect.
> >
> >You have no right to be a jerk.
> >
> >And, don't threaten me.
> >
> >You are welcome to go to any news group you want and say whatever you
want.
>> But, if you do, have the balls to post this complete thread, OK?
> >
> >I am in this business because it is fun. But, you are taking the fun out
of it.
> >
> >You have a right to be disappointed if you don't like our answers to your
questions,
>> but that doesn't give you the right to abuse my employees. The fact is,
we have never
>> announced these products, nor taken your money for them.
> >
> >You have received everything you have paid for, in a timely fashion. If
you hadn't,
>> then you'd have a right to bitch. Short of that, you don't.
> >
> >We didn't try to humiliate you when your credit card was declined. We
have always
>>treated you with respect.
> >
> >We deserve the same from you.
> >
Me, again:
{QUOTE ON}
Wow, Ralph, you are an asshole.
Let's see now. I've been a customer of Cactus since Cactus Pro Basketball
was called APBA Pro Basketball. (1991!) I think your products are great,
otherwise why would I keep buying them? If you add up everything I've spent
with you guys ... well, let's see, I'll do the math:
Pro Basketball:
The game plus all 45 NBA seasons and 9 ABA seasons plus AutoMerge =
$1,250(approx)
College Hoops:
The game plus 4 past seasons = $150
Cactus Baseball
Game plus '78, '95-99 = $200
Wow! I am a jerk! $1,600 spent with you. All of which was charged with a
credit card. And you have the fucking gall to mention the one time my card
was declined?! Why don't you mention why it was declined? It was declined
because it was a debit card whose expiration date expired between the time
you offered the 1999 baseball disk for sale and the MANY months it took for
the damned thing to actually come out.
And all this because of some obviously kidding questions about future
releases. . . .
Guess what, Mr. Charm School? You just lost your oldest and most loyal
customer. And you're damned right I'll post this entire exchange at PC
Sports Games NG.
{QUOTE OFF}
I know this is personal and I never would have gone ahead with the NG
posting -- an idle threat -- if he hadn't made the credit card low blow and
the dare : "But, if you do, have the balls to post this complete thread,
OK?"
This is the complete thread. Up to a point.
I then wrote a note to Rhoades asking for an apology.
His response:
>>Eddie:
>>Please include this in your news group message.
>>You aren't getting an apology. There is nothing to apologize for. You are
the one who was abusive. You are the one who >>wrote profanity. You are the
one calling names.
>>You insulted my employees. I defended them.
>>I have wasted way too much time on this and I would think that you have
also. I have much better things to do with my >>time than read your rants
and raves.
>>You are not going to intimidate me or my company with this nonsense.
>>Sending this e-mail message to me and threatening to post it on a public
news group if I don't apologize is asinine.
>>Ralph Rhoades
Well, that's it. I don't know how I feel about this. It was stupid to get
into this kind of piss fight with the King of the Skunks. And I will
probably buy Cactus Basketball for Windows in the year 2010. But I thought
you'd guys would want to know about how one person was treated by one
company.
Thanks for reading.
Phil Gabriel
It's why he has no friends at the shows and conventions, it's
why he never participates in any newsgroups, it's why there is
no message board at his website. And it's why you dropping off
his bandwagon now probably leaves him with his "staff" of 2
people and his mangy dog as his only customers. If this sounds
mean, it's because I've had many run-ins with this guy.
Eddie, you've been buying this guy's junk for 10 years? I don't
want to say it serves you right, but I will say that I'm
surprised it took this long for Ralph to bite you in the ass.
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Sal V.
David Loring
buy another game or product from them for as long as I lived.
Sal V. <sal...@home.com> wrote in message
news:aJkZ4.226539$Tn4.1...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
Jeff Jones
I dumped those jerks several years ago. After blowing a C-note on Cactus
baseball, and finding out it took about nine days to sim a season, I asked
for a refund. I was told that I would be issued one. After a week, no
refund. I emailed them and got some BS about them still working on it. Like
you, I started to get a little upset. I was then told that I would not be
getting a refund after all, because the "license agreement stated ... yada
yada yada".
Needless to say, I was pissed. I had my own little shouting match with that
prick Rhodes, and he never got another dime from me. I also made sure I
turned away at least 5 others from buying his products. I made sure he paid
for my $100 five times over.
Eddie, my advice is to let it go. He'll go under soon enough. Think about
this: in the text sim market is a well-defined niche, and the customers are
very specialized. After all the games are double and triple what you'd pay
for retail products. Those who treat these special customers with dignity
and respect, like Tom Tippett does, will succeed. Those who don't will fail,
or squeak by at best.
Vote with your wallet, and spread the word about Cactus. Negative word of
mouth is very tough to overcome. You listening Rhodes? you lying prick.
Jeff Downey
buffoons. I never had any contact with Ralph, but his wife, Barb
is just as bad if not worse.
Here is my little story...
I purchased a copy of APBA Basketball, the computer version.
After playing the game a bit and liking it, I contacted the sales
department at Cactus, which is Barb, and asked if the data files
from the Cactus Basketball game were compatible with my APBA
game.
Her reply to me was that I was a "filthy pirate" and they would
not sell anything to me. I pleaded my case trying to use reason,
stating that I had a legitimate copy of APBA basketball, and was
more than willing to PURCHASE their data disks if they were
compatible.
The reply was again that I was a "filthy pirate", they would not
sell me anything, and I was being reported to the SPA.
So, as you can guess, I've never purchased a Cactus Development
product. It just amazes me that one simple question can lead to
some wild reactions from that group.
Needless to say, the experiences recounted here do not surprise
me in the least.
-Jeff
Jeff Jones
> buffoons. I never had any contact with Ralph, but his wife, Barb
> is just as bad if not worse.
>
> Here is my little story...
>
> I purchased a copy of APBA Basketball, the computer version.
> After playing the game a bit and liking it, I contacted the sales
> department at Cactus, which is Barb, and asked if the data files
> from the Cactus Basketball game were compatible with my APBA
> game.
>
> Her reply to me was that I was a "filthy pirate" and they would
> not sell anything to me. I pleaded my case trying to use reason,
> stating that I had a legitimate copy of APBA basketball, and was
> more than willing to PURCHASE their data disks if they were
> compatible.
>
> The reply was again that I was a "filthy pirate", they would not
> sell me anything, and I was being reported to the SPA.
Unbelievable. Is anti-social behavior a prerequisite for employment at
Cactus? the mere mention of their name makes my blood boil.
> So, as you can guess, I've never purchased a Cactus Development
> product. It just amazes me that one simple question can lead to
> some wild reactions from that group.
>
> Needless to say, the experiences recounted here do not surprise
> me in the least.
Just make sure you sway as many as you can from buying from them. There are
better products out there anyway. Much better.
asignpro
Jeff Downey <jeffNO...@operationsports.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:182205bb...@usw-ex0108-063.remarq.com...
> Hey, add me to this list of people treated poorly by these
> buffoons. I never had any contact with Ralph, but his wife, Barb
> is just as bad if not worse.
>
> Here is my little story...
>
> I purchased a copy of APBA Basketball, the computer version.
> After playing the game a bit and liking it, I contacted the sales
> department at Cactus, which is Barb, and asked if the data files
> from the Cactus Basketball game were compatible with my APBA
> game.
>
> Her reply to me was that I was a "filthy pirate" and they would
> not sell anything to me. I pleaded my case trying to use reason,
> stating that I had a legitimate copy of APBA basketball, and was
> more than willing to PURCHASE their data disks if they were
> compatible.
>
> The reply was again that I was a "filthy pirate", they would not
> sell me anything, and I was being reported to the SPA.
>
> So, as you can guess, I've never purchased a Cactus Development
> product. It just amazes me that one simple question can lead to
> some wild reactions from that group.
>
> Needless to say, the experiences recounted here do not surprise
> me in the least.
>
Eddie Kasica
I guess I'd heard glimmers of this kind of treatment through the years, but
it just goes to show -- you don't really listen until it's you in the hot
seat.
Misery loves company and Rhoades has obviously dished out his share. Thanks
for the good words, guys.
"Jeff Jones" <jeff....@home.com> wrote in message
news:YUlZ4.26433$45.4...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
Keith Hemmelman
<EKa...@email.msn.com> wrote:
<clip>
After reading your post, it makes me glad that I avoided Cactus
products in the first place.
Keith Hemmelman
---------------------
khemmelman - name
@home.com - domain
(Reassemble for email)
---------------------
Edward Muchnick
have bought many of their products and had several discussions with Mr.
Rhodes.
They don't and never have made annoucement of any product until they are
ready to do so. A consistant approach.
Just another view.
Ed
Jeff Jones
> I have never had any problem with Cactus Development or Ralph Rhodes.
Neither had any of us, until we did.
> They don't and never have made annoucement of any product until they are
> ready to do so. A consistant approach.
Tom Tippett (Diamond Mind) has the same philosophy, he's just not an asshole
about it. Get an email or phone call from Tom's wife, and you'll get one of
the most pleasant people you'd ever want to meet. It's almost as if she's
dying to tell you about the next version, but just can't. I've occasionally
talked with Tom on the phone, and he's cool, he's your "bud". He treats his
customers like they were his friends. Cactus and the Rhoades clan is
...pardon the pun... a whole nuther ballgame.
Madcap710
transpired here.
Thanks for the heads up!!!
-=/\=- -=/\=- -=/\=-
Trust me. How hard can it be?
Famous last words
Jayhawker
about Tippet. I've written to DM a few times with the questions. I asked
if they would be adding the ability to play head-to-head over the internet
now within the game, rather than using NetMeeting now that they were going
with a windows interface.
Not only did I get a prompt reply, but I was told that they just couldn't
discuss any features of the game in which Tom has not already announced via
his newsletter. While not giving me any info that I requested, the response
was worded in such a way that I felt like an important customer with an
important question.
While I am chomping at the bit to see what DM has in store for 8.0, I think
that this is a GREAT idea. Basically, he decides to show off a feature once
it is functioning well, and he knows that it will be in the game. But not
before. And only through his newsletter and website. I know that any info
about the game will be there.
I am chomping at the bit for version 8.0, but part of my anticipation is
that I feel comfortable that when the game comes out, it will be full of
features that work as intended. He is taking the time to produce the game
in such a way that it should be solid, without any self-imposed due date or
feature set that he may not be able to live up to. Of course, time will
tell.
Jayhawker
W. J. Sullivan
> into this kind of piss fight with the King of the Skunks. And I will
> probably buy Cactus Basketball for Windows in the year 2010. But I thought
> you'd guys would want to know about how one person was treated by one
> company
hmmm....I assumed this had happened only to me. Three days after Cactus
released their baseball game, I contacted them about some statistical flaws
in the game results. I was met with what I felt was arrogance. Several days
later, I e-mailed them several pages of statistical comparisons
demonstrating the 'unrealistic' results. I was then met with what I felt was
sarcasm. After that, I basically ignored their game except for downloading
new updates to see if the problems were fixed. (They WERE fixed - 8 months
later)
Conversely, I have 'beaten up' Tom Tippett several times about Diamond
Mind producing 'non-realistic' performances and he has always responded (by
phone and by e-mail) in a very positive, courteous, friendly manner.
Admittedly, not all of the 'problems' in Diamond Mind have been fixed (and
apparently will not be fixed in 8.0). The Cactus baseball game does not have
those problems. I will not buy a new Cactus baseball game. I WILL buy
Diamond Mind 8.0. This will be a pretty good example of what happens when
you don't treat customers properly, compared to what happens when you DO.
.
Carmine
> Well, that's it. I don't know how I feel about this. It was stupid to get
> > into this kind of piss fight with the King of the Skunks. And I will
> > probably buy Cactus Basketball for Windows in the year 2010. But I thought
> > you'd guys would want to know about how one person was treated by one
> -----------------------------
> hmmm....I assumed this had happened only to me. Three days after Cactus
> released their baseball game, I contacted them about some statistical flaws
> in the game results. I was met with what I felt was arrogance. Several days
> later, I e-mailed them several pages of statistical comparisons
> demonstrating the 'unrealistic' results. I was then met with what I felt was
> sarcasm. After that, I basically ignored their game except for downloading
> new updates to see if the problems were fixed. (They WERE fixed - 8 months
> later)
> Conversely, I have 'beaten up' Tom Tippett several times about Diamond
> Mind producing 'non-realistic' performances and he has always responded (by
> phone and by e-mail) in a very positive, courteous, friendly manner.
> Admittedly, not all of the 'problems' in Diamond Mind have been fixed (and
> apparently will not be fixed in 8.0). The Cactus baseball game does not have
> those problems. I will not buy a new Cactus baseball game. I WILL buy
> Diamond Mind 8.0. This will be a pretty good example of what happens when
> you don't treat customers properly, compared to what happens when you DO.
> .