walking/running in KOTOR
-=Matt=-
Is there any way to walk instead of run in this game? I don't mean stealth
mode, I mean just walking rather than sprinting over to everywhere!
Irritates me.
Cheers,
-=Matt=-
bp
Why ? It will just take longer to get anywhere.
-=Matt=-
"bp" <6b...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:406q00dreaajb4kq1...@4ax.com...
Walking sometimes feels more realistic to me personally.
El Senor
> Is there any way to walk instead of run in this game? I don't mean
stealth
> mode, I mean just walking rather than sprinting over to everywhere!
> Irritates me.
There is supposed to be a walk/run toggle in the next patch. No idea
when it will be released, though.
-Mike
m...@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu
: Hi,
According to the Bioware boards, you could do this on the X-Box but
it was left out of the PC version, however a run/walk toggle will be
in the 1.02 patch, whenever that comes out.
Mark.
--
Mark P. Nelson, Programmer/Analyst III
Department of Integrative Biology, Thomson Laboratory
Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos -- the only sysadmins that matter
-=Matt=-
<m...@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:bujqf6$ig4$3...@agate.berkeley.edu...
DocScorpio
"-=Matt=-" <zaari...@NO-SPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:buk96a$6dv$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
most other rpg's). Your pc/npc's look very strange wandering around
clutching multiple swords/blasters all the time.
Sarah
news:o_iPb.59427$Mf2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> What's also needed in a patch is a means to put your weapons away (as in
> most other rpg's). Your pc/npc's look very strange wandering around
> clutching multiple swords/blasters all the time.
I thought that too - especially on Taris when you're trying to keep a low
profile. Bastila walking around holding her lightsaber when the Sith are
supposedly trying to locate her was a bit much.
higgy
Am I the only person that kept removing weapons in [what I judged to be]
non-combat zones? The main thing I found disappointing, actually, was the
lack of reaction to walking near Sith, whilst holding a lightsaber and
dressed as a Jedi. Also, later in the game, on Manaan, all the Sith knew
I was good, even when I wasn't wearing Jedi garb, yet later on, no-one
would believe I was Revan. Are they selectively psychic?
On the subject of Bastila - WHY DID THE STUPID BITCH FEEL THE NEED TO
*SACRIFICE* HERSELF, WHEN I WAS KICKING MALAKS ASS?! That goof cripppled
the second half of the game for me, as any sense of credibility was well
gone.
If there's ever a sequel, I hope they try to make the game-world more
dynamic, because the heavy scripting often underminded the plot, IMHO.
Dave.
higgy
> Is there any way to walk instead of run in this game? I don't mean
> stealth mode, I mean just walking rather than sprinting over to
> everywhere! Irritates me.
It would have been nice, but I was mostly crying out for a "Retreat"
option. Having to keep reloading, because my party wanted to play Kamakazi
was well irritating.
Dave.
Nostromo
>"Sarah" wrote:
>
>> "DocScorpio" <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> news:o_iPb.59427$Mf2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>> What's also needed in a patch is a means to put your weapons away (as
>>> in most other rpg's). Your pc/npc's look very strange wandering
>>> around clutching multiple swords/blasters all the time.
>>
>> I thought that too - especially on Taris when you're trying to keep a
>> low profile. Bastila walking around holding her lightsaber when the
>> Sith are supposedly trying to locate her was a bit much.
>
>Am I the only person that kept removing weapons in [what I judged to be]
>non-combat zones? The main thing I found disappointing, actually, was the
>lack of reaction to walking near Sith, whilst holding a lightsaber and
>dressed as a Jedi. Also, later in the game, on Manaan, all the Sith knew
>I was good, even when I wasn't wearing Jedi garb, yet later on, no-one
>would believe I was Revan. Are they selectively psychic?
>
>On the subject of Bastila - WHY DID THE STUPID BITCH FEEL THE NEED TO
>*SACRIFICE* HERSELF, WHEN I WAS KICKING MALAKS ASS?! That goof cripppled
>the second half of the game for me, as any sense of credibility was well
>gone.
Tx for the spoiler arsewipe!
*plonk*
Sarah
news:bukjdb$kl3$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Am I the only person that kept removing weapons in [what I judged to be]
> non-combat zones?
I probably would have done that if it didn't require several mouse clicks
due to the clunky interface.
> The main thing I found disappointing, actually, was the
> lack of reaction to walking near Sith, whilst holding a lightsaber and
> dressed as a Jedi.
Me too. Ok gang, let's keep a low profile by walking around armored from
head to toe with weapons in hand. Paying off everyone's large debts and
solving everyone's problems for them will keep us unnoticed too. Um, sure,
whatever you say.
SPOILER......
> Also, later in the game, on Manaan, all the Sith knew
> I was good, even when I wasn't wearing Jedi garb, yet later on, no-one
> would believe I was Revan. Are they selectively psychic?
Well, I thought the Revan revelation was a joke because it just didn't make
sense given what had happened so far. For example, when you go to Korriban,
Bastila says she better stay behind because she might be recognized, yet the
PC doesn't stay behind. Yeah, the person who used to be the Dark Sith Lord
wouldn't be recognized by a single Sith on a Sith planet? Also, Juhani is
hung up on Revan but doesn't recognize the PC, even the voice?
-=Matt=-
"Nostromo" <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
news:l2nr001739bnfhogd...@4ax.com...
> On 21 Jan 2004 01:07:55 GMT, higgy <higgys...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Sarah" wrote:
> >
> >> "DocScorpio" <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >> news:o_iPb.59427$Mf2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> >>
> >>> What's also needed in a patch is a means to put your weapons away (as
> >>> in most other rpg's). Your pc/npc's look very strange wandering
> >>> around clutching multiple swords/blasters all the time.
> >>
> >> I thought that too - especially on Taris when you're trying to keep a
> >> low profile. Bastila walking around holding her lightsaber when the
> >> Sith are supposedly trying to locate her was a bit much.
> >
> >Am I the only person that kept removing weapons in [what I judged to be]
> >non-combat zones? The main thing I found disappointing, actually, was the
> >lack of reaction to walking near Sith, whilst holding a lightsaber and
> >dressed as a Jedi. Also, later in the game, on Manaan, all the Sith knew
> >I was good, even when I wasn't wearing Jedi garb, yet later on, no-one
> >would believe I was Revan. Are they selectively psychic?
> Tx for the spoiler arsewipe!
>
> *plonk*
Ditto :(
-=Matt=-
Anyway annoying plot giveaways aside, yes I do the removing weapons thing
too just to add a bit of realism. Just gets annoying trying to remember who
has what weapon.
El Senor
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> Yeah, the person who used to be the Dark Sith Lord
> wouldn't be recognized by a single Sith on a Sith planet?
How could anyone recognize the face of a masked sith lord whose
appearance has since been radically altered? It's possible that
someone might have 'sensed' his presence using the force. However, it
seems very unlikely that anyone employed at a training academy on an
unimportant planet would have ever been in the personal presence of
the reclusive sith leader.
> Also, Juhani is
> hung up on Revan but doesn't recognize the PC, even the voice?
She saw him during the Mandalorian Wars, after his appearance had
already been warped by the influence of the dark side. She was only a
child at the time, having since been prejudiced by the "fact" that the
PC can't possibly be Revan.
-Mike
DocScorpio
npc's would either go hostile on you or wouldn't talk to you, if you openly
brandished weapons. Once I realized that KOTOR simply ignored the issue, I
just went with the program. I couldn't be bothered disarming/arming
pc/npc's when it made no difference in the game......especially since it has
to be done one weap at a time. This is just another example of the "lite"
aspect of the game which was discussed at some length a few weeks back.
Sarah
news:V9mPb.2553$ro4...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> appearance has since been radically altered?
When you see the "revelation cut scene", Revan pulls off his/her mask and
looks just like your PC does, albeit with yellow eyes. That's not altered
enough for people not to recognize him/her. How did Malak know? How did
Saul know? And I doubt Revan was masked 100% of the time - in the early
days, the mask probably wasn't required.
> However, it
> seems very unlikely that anyone employed at a training academy on an
> unimportant planet would have ever been in the personal presence of
> the reclusive sith leader.
They wouldn't need to be in his/her presence. They must have the equivalent
of photographs or holographic images. At a sith military academy, surely a
sith military genius like Revan would be in the text books complete with
image. Why would they recognize Bastila, then? I'm sure she had never been
in the physical presence of lowly sith either. Also, the PC visits all the
planets that Revan visited within the past few years and not *one* person
does a double-take? It just doesn't hold together.
> She saw him during the Mandalorian Wars, after his appearance had
> already been warped by the influence of the dark side. She was only a
> child at the time, having since been prejudiced by the "fact" that the
> PC can't possibly be Revan.
I'm sure the voice would sound similar. It was such a defining meeting for
her, she'd remember details. And I was under the impression that she met
Revan before the fall to the dark side. It was Revan who encouraged her
dream.
All plot holes can be rationalized if one tries hard enough, granted. For
me, the main plot in KOTOR was like the plot in a sci-fi movie that seems
okay while watching it, but on the way home you start to think, "hmm, that
doesn't make sense, and that wouldn't have happened, and....".
El Senor
> > How could anyone recognize the face of a masked sith lord whose
> > appearance has since been radically altered?
>
> When you see the "revelation cut scene", Revan pulls off his/her
mask and
> looks just like your PC does, albeit with yellow eyes.
Nope, he looks quite different. The facial structure is the same, but
the face is discolored, gnarled, wrinkled, and bruised. It's very much
like the 'burn victim' effect or those computer projections of what
you'll look like in 50 years.
> That's not altered
> enough for people not to recognize him/her.
It's more than enough, considering that no one is looking for Revan
and anyone who might've had significant personal interaction with him
as Sith Lord is dead. At most, it's an odd coincidence.
> How did Malak know?
This is explained in the plot. Calo Nord informs Malak of your
identity. They don't go into Nord's story, but it's reasonable to
assume that he was sufficently POed by your escape to thoroughly
investigate your background. Most likely he was able to buy stolen
information about your 'conversion,' just like the Exchange folks on
Koriban.
With all the Jedi / Republic pomp and burocracy and the unusual
likeness, it can't be TOO hard to find complete information on your
identity. But Revan is just a bad memory, so no one cares.
> How did Saul know?
This is also in that cutscreen after Taris. Calo Nord tells Saul, who
then informs Malak in secret. Saul and Malak are probably the only
people in the Sith hierarchy who know.
> And I doubt Revan was masked 100% of the time - in the early
> days, the mask probably wasn't required.
It's not unreasonable to assume that he went maked immediately after
openly adopting the Sith ways. Anyway, even if he didn't, it's
expressly stated by the Exchange agent on Koriban that Malak ordered
the deaths of everyone who might have personally known Revan.
> They wouldn't need to be in his/her presence. They must have the
equivalent
> of photographs or holographic images.
This is quite a stretch. Do you really think Revan would be dumb
enough to allow his image to be taken? Can you imagine Darth Vader or
the Emperor taking off their gear for a photo shoot?
Anyway, in the dialog Malak explains that Revan was always embarrassed
about his appearance and probably preferred the mask anyway because it
made him seem more threatening.
> Also, the PC visits all the
> planets that Revan visited within the past few years and not *one*
person
> does a double-take?
Yup. I can see it right now - "Gee, mister, thanks for comming into my
store. Did anyone ever mention you sorta look like Hitler? Uh, want to
buy anything?" Furthermore, all of the worlds you visit are
convienently isolated from the media machine of the Core Worlds. Few
people know or care much about what goes on half a galaxy away.
If Slobodan Milosevic showed up in your average hick town, how many
people would recognize him, much less bother to talk to him about it?
80% of the US population does not even know the identity of their Vice
President -- and they aren't even stranded on a rock in the middle of
nowhere.
> Why would they recognize Bastila, then? I'm sure she had never been
> in the physical presence of lowly sith either.
Presumably she's been lauded all over the galaxy as the hero and
saviour of the republic. More importantly, unlike Revan, she is known
to be alive and is wanted by the Sith Lord himself. People are
*looking* for her.
The Jedi Council were worried about people recognizing you, which is
why they sent you off in a small group of Padawans alongside
Bastila -- who people would be sure to notice instead of you.
> I'm sure the voice would sound similar. It was such a defining
meeting for
> her, she'd remember details.
The more emotional baggage attached to a particular memory, the more
vulnerable it is to the power of suggestion. Rape and assault victims
frequently misidentify their attackers, even when the attacks occured
in broad daylight; witness misidentification is the 2nd most common
cause of false convictions. Junani saw Revan through the eyes of a
little slave girl and thought he was a god. A particularly pursuasive
individual could probably convince her that Revan was Santa Claus.
We don't like to admit it, but the human memory is a totally
unreliable recording device. People remember what they want to
remember, which is usually what others tell them they should remember.
> And I was under the impression that she met
> Revan before the fall to the dark side. It was Revan who encouraged
her
> dream.
Revan came to Taris as part of the Mandalorian campaign. He'd already
fallen but was still playing possum.
> All plot holes can be rationalized if one tries hard enough,
granted. For
> me, the main plot in KOTOR was like the plot in a sci-fi movie that
seems
> okay while watching it, but on the way home you start to think,
"hmm, that
> doesn't make sense, and that wouldn't have happened, and....".
Dunno...I didn't find anything too incredible about the storyline.
They tied it all together surprisingly nicely.
-Mike
Highlandish
Sarah <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> Quoth The Raven:
>
> SPOILER......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, I thought the Revan revelation was a joke because it just
> didn't make sense given what had happened so far. For example, when
> you go to Korriban, Bastila says she better stay behind because she
> might be recognized, yet the PC doesn't stay behind. Yeah, the
> person who used to be the Dark Sith Lord wouldn't be recognized by a
> single Sith on a Sith planet? Also, Juhani is hung up on Revan but
> doesn't recognize the PC, even the voice?
well the excuse was oft given that Revan always wore a mask, and only the
higher echelon of the sith ever met Revan in the first place. and that mask
may have changed her voice to sound more threatening, I mean who would ever
be scared of the PC's voice? I chose a chic to use as my PC and she was
wussy sounding.
--
Sometimes majority simply means that all the fools are on one side.
Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me
higgy
Well, sorry, but that happens mid-game - it's not like it's part of the
finale. I figured everyone discussing KOTOR would have reached there by
now. Besides, I haven't seen any spoiler warnings in other threads,
relating to events much further on than that.
Dave.
higgy
Very sorry about the spoiler. It was late, I wasn't thinking.
Dave.
-=Matt=-
nevermind!
I could see where it was going, I was just too weak to look away!!
Cardinal Fang
> "Sarah" wrote the following potential plot revelations:
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>>Yeah, the person who used to be the Dark Sith Lord
>>wouldn't be recognized by a single Sith on a Sith planet?
>
>
> How could anyone recognize the face of a masked sith lord whose
> appearance has since been radically altered? It's possible that
> someone might have 'sensed' his presence using the force. However, it
> seems very unlikely that anyone employed at a training academy on an
> unimportant planet would have ever been in the personal presence of
> the reclusive sith leader.
>
I found the Sith Academy's lack of faith disturbing. But there was no
option to prove myself in the dark side way by just choking everyone who
doesn't believe me.
Michael Anderson
news:bumhpp$1t2$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
:)
But then, Korriban isn't some unimportant Sith world - it is *the* place -
you have people like Ragnos and Sadow buried there ... Korriban is the
proving grounds for Exar Kun ...
Oh well ...
Mike
Sarah
news:bulfvv$idg7c$6...@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de...
SPOILER.....
> well the excuse was oft given that Revan always wore a mask, and only the
> higher echelon of the sith ever met Revan in the first place. and that
mask
> may have changed her voice to sound more threatening, I mean who would
ever
> be scared of the PC's voice? I
Well, I'm sure people saw Revan before the fall to the dark side, like
Juhani. That's the part I find so unbelievable about the entire thing -
that Juhani wouldn't register a spark of recognition considering what an
important role Revan played in her life.
Sarah
> Nope, he looks quite different. The facial structure is the same, but
> the face is discolored, gnarled, wrinkled, and bruised. It's very much
> like the 'burn victim' effect or those computer projections of what
> you'll look like in 50 years.
I've only seen the cut scene once and she didn't look that different to me.
> It's more than enough, considering that no one is looking for Revan
> and anyone who might've had significant personal interaction with him
> as Sith Lord is dead. At most, it's an odd coincidence.
We can't be sure that everyone who had interaction with him is dead. And
don't forget, many people had interaction with him *before* he became the
sith lord, a fact you've ignored in your response.
> This is explained in the plot. Calo Nord informs Malak of your
> identity. They don't go into Nord's story, but it's reasonable to
> assume that he was sufficently POed by your escape to thoroughly
> investigate your background. Most likely he was able to buy stolen
> information about your 'conversion,' just like the Exchange folks on
> Koriban.
Everything about how Calo found out is speculation. And if Calo could
figure it out, so could others. Here we have an individual who appears out
of nowhere, is very strong in the force, and doesn't exactly keep a low
profile. If Calo was interested enough to dig, others would be too.
> With all the Jedi / Republic pomp and burocracy and the unusual
> likeness, it can't be TOO hard to find complete information on your
> identity.
Exactly.
> But Revan is just a bad memory, so no one cares.
But your PC isn't just a bad memory. And the statement that Revan is a bad
memory that nobody cares about is an assumption.
> This is also in that cutscreen after Taris. Calo Nord tells Saul, who
> then informs Malak in secret. Saul and Malak are probably the only
> people in the Sith hierarchy who know.
That's speculation.
> It's not unreasonable to assume that he went maked immediately after
> openly adopting the Sith ways.
And it's not unreasonable to assume that he didn't.
> Anyway, even if he didn't, it's
> expressly stated by the Exchange agent on Koriban that Malak ordered
> the deaths of everyone who might have personally known Revan.
Well, given that many of the Jedi on Dantooine personally knew Revan, I
guess that order failed. Could the sith hunt down and kill *everyone* who
could recognize Revan? Doubtful.
> This is quite a stretch. Do you really think Revan would be dumb
> enough to allow his image to be taken? Can you imagine Darth Vader or
> the Emperor taking off their gear for a photo shoot?
Unauthorized images of people are taken all the time.
> Anyway, in the dialog Malak explains that Revan was always embarrassed
> about his appearance and probably preferred the mask anyway because it
> made him seem more threatening.
But we don't know when Revan started wearing the mask, and you keep
forgetting all the people who knew Revan before he fell to the dark side
which invalidates just about all of your speculation and assumptions.
> Yup. I can see it right now - "Gee, mister, thanks for comming into my
> store. Did anyone ever mention you sorta look like Hitler? Uh, want to
> buy anything?" Furthermore, all of the worlds you visit are
> convienently isolated from the media machine of the Core Worlds. Few
> people know or care much about what goes on half a galaxy away.
Who said they'd talk to him? They'd probably mention to friends that
someone came into the store who looked just like so-and-so and word might
get around and pique someone's interest enough to take a closer look. As
for the worlds you visit, you're forgetting that Revan had visited those
worlds within the last few years. They aren't just *any* worlds. Many
people on those worlds would have seen him before. You may be able to hide
the face, but body build, mannerisms, speech patterns, and the force are a l
ot more difficult to hide.
> The Jedi Council were worried about people recognizing you, which is
> why they sent you off in a small group of Padawans alongside
> Bastila -- who people would be sure to notice instead of you.
That's speculation. And I don't know about your game, but in my game I was
never knocked out of the way because people wanted to get to Bastila.
Funnily enough, it was usually the PC who was approached, while Bastila was
all but invisible. And often she was left cooling her heels on the Ebon
Hawk. So much for that plan.
> The more emotional baggage attached to a particular memory, the more
> vulnerable it is to the power of suggestion. Rape and assault victims
> frequently misidentify their attackers, even when the attacks occured
> in broad daylight; witness misidentification is the 2nd most common
> cause of false convictions. Junani saw Revan through the eyes of a
> little slave girl and thought he was a god. A particularly pursuasive
> individual could probably convince her that Revan was Santa Claus.
Well, you get marks for working really, really hard to explain why there's
no flicker of recognition for Juhani, but how Juhani saw Revan when she was
younger is all speculation, and I don't accept the parallel you're trying to
draw between the memory that rape and assault victims have of their
attackers and the memory a person would have of someone who made a positive
impact on their life. In fact, I find it distasteful that you've even
brought up rape and assault victims in this context. It's just a computer
game. Chill, will ya?
> We don't like to admit it, but the human memory is a totally
> unreliable recording device. People remember what they want to
> remember, which is usually what others tell them they should remember.
Well, I think that's a sweeping generalization - you can't possibly argue
that no memory is valid. I think it's likely that Juhani would remember
enough to recognize Revan - nothing you've written has convinced me
otherwise.
> Dunno...I didn't find anything too incredible about the storyline.
> They tied it all together surprisingly nicely.
I'm not convinced, given the history and circumstances, that nobody would
recognize Revan or stumble on to the big secret. And in fact I'm right,
because Calo did. As I said before, any plot hole and inconsistency can be
rationalized away if one tries hard enough. You think the "revelation" part
of the storyline worked - I don't. We can go around in circles or just
agree to disagree on this one because I doubt we'll change each other's
minds.
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
news:67_Pb.94405$nl2....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> "El Senor" <no...@nowhere.nohow.com> wrote in message
> news:pfpPb.2704$kH2...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
>
> > Anyway, in the dialog Malak explains that Revan was always embarrassed
> > about his appearance and probably preferred the mask anyway because it
> > made him seem more threatening.
>
LOL!
I can imagine it now. How about,
M: "My Lord! The mask that you so suddenly wear; which Jedi scarred your
face so? Which Jedi did this to you, so that I may have thier heart. The
dark side of the force will wreak its vengence upon thier very-"
R: "-Relax, man! Its just that mask I got off that dodgy street seller in
Tatooine! Cool innit! Remember that guy?"
M: "Err no, my Dark Lord. I, I don't understand, which of the Sith
teachings..."
R: "'I find your lack of mask disturbing'...cool eh? I look, ooooh
threatening! I suggest you get one. Something robot and metal would be
wicked."
M: "At once my lord."
R: "Raaah! Look at the mask of evil+2!! I'm threatening you now!!"
> But we don't know when Revan started wearing the mask, and you keep
> forgetting all the people who knew Revan before he fell to the dark side
> which invalidates just about all of your speculation and assumptions.
> SNIP
I agree with you.
Apart from the rest of the rediculous arse he was saying, this bit made me
laugh.
Maia
I was crying for an alternate weapons slot. Think of all tactical
options in combat that were sacrificed due to the fact that changing
weapons is beyond tedious. Makes using the non-Jedi characters
unnecessarily monotonous - flurry, flurry, flurry.... and makes
firearms rather obsolete too. And it doesn't even seem to be the X-box
limitation - surely they could have used the weapon flourish button
for a quick weapon change instead?
Highlandish
-=Matt=- <zaari...@NO-SPAMyahoo.co.uk> Quoth The Raven:
> "Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
> news:67_Pb.94405$nl2....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>> "El Senor" <no...@nowhere.nohow.com> wrote in message
>> news:pfpPb.2704$kH2...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
>>
> SNIP
>>> Anyway, in the dialog Malak explains that Revan was always
>>> embarrassed about his appearance and probably preferred the mask
>>> anyway because it made him seem more threatening.
>>
>
> LOL!
> I can imagine it now. How about,
> M: "My Lord! The mask that you so suddenly wear; which Jedi scarred
> your face so? Which Jedi did this to you, so that I may have thier
> heart. The dark side of the force will wreak its vengence upon thier
> very-" R: "-Relax, man! Its just that mask I got off that dodgy
> street seller in Tatooine! Cool innit! Remember that guy?"
> M: "Err no, my Dark Lord. I, I don't understand, which of the Sith
> teachings..."
> R: "'I find your lack of mask disturbing'...cool eh? I look, ooooh
> threatening! I suggest you get one. Something robot and metal would be
> wicked."
> M: "At once my lord."
> R: "Raaah! Look at the mask of evil+2!! I'm threatening you now!!"
>
that must have left Malak gobsmacked (well something did anyway)
--
We should learn something every day. Sometimes it is the discovery
that what we learned yesterday was wrong.
Sarah
> I can imagine it now. How about,
> M: "My Lord! The mask that you so suddenly wear; which Jedi scarred your
> face so? Which Jedi did this to you, so that I may have thier heart. The
> dark side of the force will wreak its vengence upon thier very-"
> R: "-Relax, man! Its just that mask I got off that dodgy street seller in
> Tatooine! Cool innit! Remember that guy?"
> M: "Err no, my Dark Lord. I, I don't understand, which of the Sith
> teachings..."
> R: "'I find your lack of mask disturbing'...cool eh? I look, ooooh
> threatening! I suggest you get one. Something robot and metal would be
> wicked."
> M: "At once my lord."
> R: "Raaah! Look at the mask of evil+2!! I'm threatening you now!!"
LOL. That's the second bit of dialog you've written that's cracked me up
(the first was between Mission and Bastila, last week, I think). :-)
Sarah
news:a4o1101f2gtk9236h...@4ax.com...
> I was crying for an alternate weapons slot. Think of all tactical
> options in combat that were sacrificed due to the fact that changing
> weapons is beyond tedious. Makes using the non-Jedi characters
> unnecessarily monotonous - flurry, flurry, flurry.... and makes
> firearms rather obsolete too. And it doesn't even seem to be the X-box
> limitation - surely they could have used the weapon flourish button
> for a quick weapon change instead?
The pain involved just to change from ranged to melee weapons is
unforgiveable, IMO. In fact, I think the whole inventory system sucks.
Partway through the game that I finished, I stopped bothering to check if
there was better stuff available to equip my characters because the thought
of having to click, click, click just didn't appeal. It didn't seem to
matter, so in my current game I'll sell everything once I'm off Dantooine
and not access my inventory again unless I absolutely have to.
El Senor
> We can't be sure that everyone who had interaction with him [Revan]
is dead. And
> don't forget, many people had interaction with him *before* he
became the
> sith lord, a fact you've ignored in your response.
There is no reason to believe that his appearance would be identical
after it was warped and re-warped by the influence of the force.
Furthermore, the PC only visits backward, ignored worlds in a
backwards, ignored galaxy. Prior to Revan's fall to the dark side, he
would have been known almost exclusively by fellow Jedi. The fact is
that, considering these circumstances, an encounter with one of
Revan's former colleagues would be extremely unlikely -- so unlikely
that this possibility can be easily dismissed.
> And if Calo could
> figure it out, so could others.
Others did figure it out, as demonstrated by the merchants on Koriban.
However, there aren't many people with membership cards to the
galaxy's most exclusive criminal organization, AND Calo's highly
unusual persistence, AND sufficient reason to investigate your PCs
background, AND the motive to publicize such information. There just
aren't THAT MANY serially homicidal nuts with an irrational grudge
against the PC wandering the galaxy.
Some Bothans, for example, might be aware of Revan's existence. But
they probably wouldn't be eager to see the information made public.
> Here we have an individual who appears out
> of nowhere, is very strong in the force, and doesn't exactly keep a
low
> profile.
You've just described every one of the millions of Jedi roaming the
galaxy. As far as civilians are concerned, the PC is just another
random goody-goody Jedi.
> And the statement that Revan is a bad
> memory that nobody cares about is an assumption.
A reasonable assumption, considering the short length of Earthly news
cycles, and the presumably much shorter
> And it's not unreasonable to assume that he didn't.
But you are the one arguing that the plot is implausible. If there is
any reasonable interpretation of the events in KOTOR that results in a
credible and internally consistent narrative, then KOTOR can be said
to have a plausible storyline.
> Well, given that many of the Jedi on Dantooine personally knew
Revan, I
> guess that order [to kill] failed.
Revan wasn't trained on Dantooine. And regardless, your PC only meets
one Jedi in the course of his quest. Remember that the Republic
encompasses millions of worlds. Finding even a single Jedi at random
would be an incredible stroke of luck -- like finding the needle in
the haystack.
> Unauthorized images of people are taken all the time.
Most people aren't dark lord of the Sith. Do you know of any
unauthorized images of Kim Sung Il?
> Who said they'd talk to him? They'd probably mention to friends
that
> someone came into the store who looked just like so-and-so and word
might
> get around and pique someone's interest enough to take a closer
look.
> As
> for the worlds you visit, you're forgetting that Revan had visited
those
> worlds within the last few years. They aren't just *any* worlds.
Many
> people on those worlds would have seen him before.
There is no evidence that Revan visited all the worlds depicted in
KOTOR. We know for sure only that Revan visited Tattoine; he almost
certainly didn't visit Manaan.
You're also forgetting that Revan was a Jedi who didn't want to be
seen or remembered and therefore generally wasn't seen or remembered.
Jolee points out that even he didn't notice Revan installing machinery
on Koriban, right under Jolee's nose.
> And I don't know about your game, but in my game I was
> never knocked out of the way because people wanted to get to
Bastila.
> Funnily enough, it was usually the PC who was approached, while
Bastila was
> all but invisible.
I can count the total number of times I was approached on two hands.
The number of people looking for NPCs outnumbered the number of people
looking for my PC.
> And often she [Ballista] was left cooling her heels on the Ebon
> Hawk. So much for that plan [to use Ballista as a decoy].
Maybe, but this is hardly the Jedi Council's fault.
> I don't accept the parallel you're trying to
> draw between the memory that rape and assault victims have of their
> attackers and the memory a person would have of someone who made a
positive
> impact on their life.
Do you have any evidence to support this? The recall of pleasurable
and unpleasant memories is associated with the same regions of the
brain. Both forms of emotional disturbance increase retention while
also increasing suggestibility. Planting a highly emotional false
memory is easier than planting something dull and incipit.
> In fact, I find it distasteful that you've even
> brought up rape and assault victims in this context. It's just a
computer
> game. Chill, will ya?
In the good old days, the veracity of any assertion was determined by
careful examination of the arguments. Today, an argument is valid only
if it fails to offend the delicate sensibilities of its audience. I'm
more of a traditionalist, who benchmarks all claims using the logic of
truth and falsehood, not the metrics of "sexism," "homophobia,"
"imperialism," or the latest trendy Class of Appointed Victims, as
calculated by way of least common denominator of the ignorant masses.
> Well, I think that's a sweeping generalization - you can't possibly
argue
> that no memory is valid.
It is a simple fact that the any human memory must be independently
verified before it can be trusted. If the memory is very old,
emotionally charged, AND the subject has received extensive suggestion
and misinformation about the events in memory, then you can make a
reasonable assumption that the memory is distorted.
> I'm not convinced, given the history and circumstances, that nobody
would
> recognize Revan or stumble on to the big secret. And in fact I'm
right,
> because Calo did.
In other words, the storyline met your expectations for plausibility
in this area.
>As I said before, any plot hole and inconsistency can be
> rationalized away if one tries hard enough.
True, but my claims are hardly contorted or contrived. Revan's
appearance has been radically altered twice over, many of the people
who knew him are dead, human memory is inherently unreliable, and no
one is looking for him. All these explanations are quite simple and
remarkably obvious.
> We can go around in circles or just
> agree to disagree on this one because I doubt we'll change each
other's
> minds.
The main purpose of argument is not to convince.
-Mike
Sarah
<snip>
As I said in my last post, we're just going to go around in circles. That
was my way of saying I wasn't interested in discussing it further, but I
guess you missed the point (as you did many others).
Have a good one...
Mark Blunden
Absolutely jaw-dropping.
--
Mark.
* We wanted to be honest and real and to do this we needed zombies,
aliens, invisible teenagers, wild dogs, midnight rescues, good guys,
bad guys, rave pixies and guns, lots of guns
Maia
wrote:
SPOILERS:
>"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote:
>> We can't be sure that everyone who had interaction with him [Revan]
>is dead. And
>> don't forget, many people had interaction with him *before* he
>became the
>> sith lord, a fact you've ignored in your response.
>
>There is no reason to believe that his appearance would be identical
>after it was warped and re-warped by the influence of the force.
Except that in the game the PC's appearance is quite recognizable,
even when s/he reaches the Dark Mastery. And indeed the face we see in
the revelation sequence is unmistakeably the PC's.
>Furthermore, the PC only visits backward, ignored worlds in a
>backwards, ignored galaxy. Prior to Revan's fall to the dark side, he
>would have been known almost exclusively by fellow Jedi. The fact is
>that, considering these circumstances, an encounter with one of
>Revan's former colleagues would be extremely unlikely -- so unlikely
>that this possibility can be easily dismissed.
Huh? Many of the Sith _are_ Revan's former collegues who followed
him/her first to the War and then to the Dark Side. And indeed a
couple of Sith on the Unknown World do recognise him/her, only to
subsequently throw their lives away in a typical display of Sith
idiocy. Not to mention that a visage of a celebrated war hero should
have been pretty widespread over the Republic news networks. Bastila
is quite well known, after all.
And Revan couldn't have worn the mask all the time - after all s/he
was trying to be discreet when visiting the 4 planets and yet was seen
and recognised.
>
>
>> And if Calo could
>> figure it out, so could others.
>
>Others did figure it out, as demonstrated by the merchants on Koriban.
>However, there aren't many people with membership cards to the
>galaxy's most exclusive criminal organization, AND Calo's highly
>unusual persistence, AND sufficient reason to investigate your PCs
>background, AND the motive to publicize such information. There just
>aren't THAT MANY serially homicidal nuts with an irrational grudge
>against the PC wandering the galaxy.
Once the PC starts causing massive waves, there should be enough. But
the point is, PC's appearance should be well enough known that
Canderous (if Mandalorians are worth anything militarily), Carth,
Juhani, Jedi on Dantooine and a boatload of Sith on Korriban should
all recognise him/her.
What the Jedi Council was thinking of is difficult to understand.
>
>But you are the one arguing that the plot is implausible. If there is
>any reasonable interpretation of the events in KOTOR that results in a
>credible and internally consistent narrative, then KOTOR can be said
>to have a plausible storyline.
No, it is quite implausible. I would have preferred it if the PC had
received a face surgery and the revelation sequence was filmed in some
over way. For instance, with a change to first person or something
like that.
>
>There is no evidence that Revan visited all the worlds depicted in
>KOTOR. We know for sure only that Revan visited Tattoine; he almost
>certainly didn't visit Manaan.
Huh?! Watch the revelation sequence again. "Revan visited each of
these worlds" and seen and recognised there.
>
>You're also forgetting that Revan was a Jedi who didn't want to be
>seen or remembered and therefore generally wasn't seen or remembered.
Except that the fact of Revan's visits was known from the witnesses.
S/he obviously was both noticed and remembered.
Darren Compton
>On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 07:24:00 GMT, "El Senor" <no...@nowhere.nohow.com>
>wrote:
>
>SPOILERS:
>
>
>
>
>>"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote:
>>> We can't be sure that everyone who had interaction with him [Revan]
>>is dead. And
>>> don't forget, many people had interaction with him *before* he
>>became the
>>> sith lord, a fact you've ignored in your response.
>>
>>There is no reason to believe that his appearance would be identical
>>after it was warped and re-warped by the influence of the force.
>
>Except that in the game the PC's appearance is quite recognizable,
>even when s/he reaches the Dark Mastery. And indeed the face we see in
>the revelation sequence is unmistakeably the PC's.
>
Yeah, but if you saw a leader who was supposed to be dead, accompanied
by the one of the persons that was supposed to have killed them, who
was a feared fighter and was calling themselve Fred, would you go up
to them and tell them that was not their name or just leave them
alone.
Darren
Highlandish
Mark Blunden <m.blunde...@ntlworld.com> Quoth The Raven:
I have to ask, has anybody else read the name Malak and thought "malaka"
(its some foreign swear word, possibly Greek for wanker, but I might be
wrong)
--
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> I have to ask, has anybody else read the name Malak and thought "malaka"
> (its some foreign swear word, possibly Greek for wanker, but I might be
> wrong)
No, I thought of the name "Malik."
--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.ma...@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Robert Oliver
@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> "Highlandish" <ckreska...@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bulfvv$idg7c$6...@ID-140307.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> SPOILER.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > well the excuse was oft given that Revan always wore a mask, and only the
> > higher echelon of the sith ever met Revan in the first place. and that
> mask
> > may have changed her voice to sound more threatening, I mean who would
> ever
> > be scared of the PC's voice? I
I rather liked my female Jedi's voice. What little I actually
heard of it. I've have noticed that your PC seems to talk more
if you're controlling a different character though.
>
> Well, I'm sure people saw Revan before the fall to the dark side, like
> Juhani. That's the part I find so unbelievable about the entire thing -
> that Juhani wouldn't register a spark of recognition considering what an
> important role Revan played in her life.
>
>
>
I'm fairly sure that Juhani never actually saw Revan.
She states that the Jedi she met was a woman regardless
of the gender of your character.
You would think though, that there would have been some news
footage of the war. Or maybe not. The highest form of
entertainment in the Republic seems to be watching
Twi'lek women standing in one spot, flailing their arms and
gyrating their hips in time to some fairly mediocre
music.
And let's not forget that the Republic has yet to
invent the bathroom. The atmosphere must be fairly
thick on the Ebon Hawk. I don't even want to think
about what Zalbaar does when nature calls.
--
When you have to kill a man it costs nothing
to be polite.
Winston Churchill
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> And let's not forget that the Republic has yet to
> invent the bathroom. The atmosphere must be fairly
> thick on the Ebon Hawk. I don't even want to think
> about what Zalbaar does when nature calls.
I think there was a restroom hidden somewhere in Dark Forces.
Sarah
news:MPG.1a8857db4...@news.east.earthlink.net...
SPOILER ALERT...
> I'm fairly sure that Juhani never actually saw Revan.
> She states that the Jedi she met was a woman regardless
> of the gender of your character.
She says she sees something of the Jedi who made an impact on her in you - I
took that to mean that she saw a physical resemblance, because the dialog
went something like "when I look at you, I see something of ...". I'll pay
more attention next time I play through. I definitely got the impression
that she had met Revan before.
I just had the "on top of the temple" dialog with Juhani last night - what a
nice surprise! Of course, that put my character into a tizzy because she'd
already told Carth there was a future with him - not that this stopped my
character from saying yes to Juhani too - perhaps Revan hasn't *totally*
turned from the dark side after all. I'll have to remember to say no to
Carth next time I play a female lightsider just to make it all plausible
because somehow I don't see either one of them as the sharing type. I was
getting the drift about Juhani well before that because my darksider killed
her in the grove and Belaya(?) threw a shit fit about it that strongly
implied that they were more than just friends.
> You would think though, that there would have been some news
> footage of the war. Or maybe not.
I just finished replaying through the game and I'm even more convinced that
it couldn't have been kept a secret. Funny how more and more people who
know your identity conveniently come out of the woodwork right after the
revelation, and their dialog indicates that it wasn't the best kept secret.
I do think the plot would have been more interesting had you known up front
because the game seemed more interesting the second time around, and I think
it's because I knew who my PC was from the start. And the second time
through, I thought it even more ridiculous that Bastila can run around Taris
with you after she's rescued even though the Sith are scouring the planet
for her. Oh well.
I have to say I enjoyed the game much more the second time through and will
play through it again...
Sarah
news:401EC060...@comcast.net...
> Robert Oliver wrote:
> >
> > And let's not forget that the Republic has yet to
> > invent the bathroom. The atmosphere must be fairly
> > thick on the Ebon Hawk. I don't even want to think
> > about what Zalbaar does when nature calls.
>
> I think there was a restroom hidden somewhere in Dark Forces.
You guys need to head over to the action group where "toilets in games" has
its very own thread right now...
Julie d'Aubigny
No, no, I'm sure I'm fine, thanks.
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
But does being evil limit the romance storylines? It should do really, ("I
love you PC; despite your homicidal maniac nature...") but I never explored
them properly, so want to do that a bit more but play evil too.
-=Matt=-
Sarah
news:bvmo3b$l4d$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Actually, I plan to play the game second time around as an evil character.
> But does being evil limit the romance storylines? It should do really, ("I
> love you PC; despite your homicidal maniac nature...") but I never
explored
> them properly, so want to do that a bit more but play evil too.
From everything I've read, I think the romances are only available to
lightsiders. I don't really consider them storylines - they are just a few
extra bits of dialog and some extra dialog choices. They aren't like the
romances in BG2.
I disagree that being a darksider should limit the potential for romance -
after all, Canderous is dark, and I think darksiders (or those somewhere in
the middle) are probably more interesting people than saints. Just not in
KOTOR, where walking the dark side seems to equate to "being a mindless
thug" and so isn't that interesting at all (or should that be "mindless thug
who laughs a lot"?).
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> I disagree that being a darksider should limit the potential for romance -
> after all, Canderous is dark, and I think darksiders (or those somewhere in
> the middle) are probably more interesting people than saints. Just not in
> KOTOR, where walking the dark side seems to equate to "being a mindless
> thug" and so isn't that interesting at all (or should that be "mindless thug
> who laughs a lot"?).
That's standard for Bioware, though. Good = really nice, but kills a lot
of people. Evil = Really mean, and kills a lot of people.
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
Star Wars does tend to deal in absolutes. All black, or all
white, and not a shade of gray to be seen.
>
A little spoiler space.
Though I haven't done it...yet, I gather the romance with
Bastila is possible when playing as a dark side male
character. Just _do_ _not_ talk to her again after
the kissing scene. I think this might be due to a bug in
the game, though I won't swear to it.
I'm not sure about a dark side female and Carth,
though I think that hinges mostly on successfully completing
the "Dustil" quest.
The Juhani romance is available _only_ to a light side
female character.
--
I rejoice in the multifariousness of nature
and leave the chimera of certainty to
politicians and preachers.
-Stephen Jay Gould
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
like Carth and Bastilla. But yes, that would be good if you could have an
evil romance with one of the evil characters! "I am a the dark lod of the
sith! Wha ha ha ha haaa!" -"Kiss me oh dark lord" -"I will when Carths not
looking at us! Wha ha ha haaa!"
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> "Robert Oliver" <rbol...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1a8857db4...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>
> SPOILER ALERT...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm fairly sure that Juhani never actually saw Revan.
> > She states that the Jedi she met was a woman regardless
> > of the gender of your character.
>
> She says she sees something of the Jedi who made an impact on her in you - I
> took that to mean that she saw a physical resemblance, because the dialog
> went something like "when I look at you, I see something of ...". I'll pay
> more attention next time I play through. I definitely got the impression
> that she had met Revan before.
I remember her saying that to my female PC. I'm not sure if she
said to my male character. She did say that the Jedi she met
was a woman. She also mentioned "hearing tales the exploits of
their leader" (I think the quote is correct) and I'm assuming
that that was the reference to Revan.
> I just had the "on top of the temple" dialog with Juhani last night - what a
> nice surprise! Of course, that put my character into a tizzy because she'd
> already told Carth there was a future with him - not that this stopped my
> character from saying yes to Juhani too - perhaps Revan hasn't *totally*
> turned from the dark side after all.
That was a surprise, wasn't it? It happened to me on my first
time through the game. Kind of a shame it doesn't really go
anywhere.
> I'll have to remember to say no to
> Carth next time I play a female lightsider just to make it all plausible
> because somehow I don't see either one of them as the sharing type. I was
> getting the drift about Juhani well before that because my darksider killed
> her in the grove and Belaya(?) threw a shit fit about it that strongly
> implied that they were more than just friends.
>
> > You would think though, that there would have been some news
> > footage of the war. Or maybe not.
>
> I just finished replaying through the game and I'm even more convinced that
> it couldn't have been kept a secret. Funny how more and more people who
> know your identity conveniently come out of the woodwork right after the
> revelation, and their dialog indicates that it wasn't the best kept secret.
> I do think the plot would have been more interesting had you known up front
> because the game seemed more interesting the second time around, and I think
> it's because I knew who my PC was from the start. And the second time
> through, I thought it even more ridiculous that Bastila can run around Taris
> with you after she's rescued even though the Sith are scouring the planet
> for her. Oh well.
I've been thinking about that. If you saw, oh say... Saddam
Hussein walking down the street would you think, "hey that's
Saddam Hussein" or would you think "hmmm, that guy looks like
Saddam Hussein". Revan is supposed to be dead, after all.
(And I do apologize for not coming up with a better example.)
> I have to say I enjoyed the game much more the second time through and will
> play through it again...
>
I know. I can't believe the amount of dramatic foreshadowing
in this game. And I can't believe I missed all of it on my
first time through.
--
In war as in love, we must
achieve contact to triumph.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
CCF
> Actually, I plan to play the game second time around as an evil character.
> But does being evil limit the romance storylines? It should do really, ("I
> love you PC; despite your homicidal maniac nature...") but I never explored
> them properly, so want to do that a bit more but play evil too.
>
No, it doesn't limit it that I found- with Bastila the only romance I
ran. Turns out she digs on the bad boy thing.
> -=Matt=-
>
>
Sarah
> That's standard for Bioware, though. Good = really nice, but kills a lot
> of people. Evil = Really mean, and kills a lot of people.
I saw it as good = being a sucker but kills a lot of people. Evil = what
you said. I mean, really, paying off people's debts and crap like that.
Some people would make an argument that you should have got dark points for
encouraging people not to be held responsible for their own messes.
But I do get your point.
Sarah
> Though I haven't done it...yet, I gather the romance with
> Bastila is possible when playing as a dark side male
> character. Just _do_ _not_ talk to her again after
> the kissing scene. I think this might be due to a bug in
> the game, though I won't swear to it.
Ok. Haven't played through as a male to that point yet so I'll keep it in
mind, though my plan is to play through as a light side male. There wasn't
a kissing scene with Carth and I did get the romance stuff with him. Did I
miss something?
Sarah
> I remember her saying that to my female PC. I'm not sure if she
> said to my male character. She did say that the Jedi she met
> was a woman. She also mentioned "hearing tales the exploits of
> their leader" (I think the quote is correct) and I'm assuming
> that that was the reference to Revan.
I'm playing through as a light side male next so I'll try to pay attention
to her dialog in particular.
> That was a surprise, wasn't it? It happened to me on my first
> time through the game. Kind of a shame it doesn't really go
> anywhere.
None of the romances really go anywhere. The light side ending, at least,
left room for a sequel to pick up with the same characters. If they do
that, I hope they keep the complete set and don't pull the stunt they did
with BG2 by only keeping certain NPCs, and perhaps they'll let you declare
who you're with off the bat, if anyone. But I doubt that'll happen.
> I've been thinking about that. If you saw, oh say... Saddam
> Hussein walking down the street would you think, "hey that's
> Saddam Hussein" or would you think "hmmm, that guy looks like
> Saddam Hussein". Revan is supposed to be dead, after all.
> (And I do apologize for not coming up with a better example.)
Well, I've addressed this before. I think enough people would do a
double-take that some buzz would be created and word would reach the "right"
people. There is no need for people to walk up to the PC and say, "hey, are
you Revan?" - just a need for enough whispers to start. I also think that
there's no way s/he could have gone back to Korriban. No way at all
> I know. I can't believe the amount of dramatic foreshadowing
> in this game. And I can't believe I missed all of it on my
> first time through.
There is foreshadowing but at the same time there is a lot of stuff that
doesn't make sense. I found the game much more interesting after the
revelation because somehow the dialog choices and what I was doing took on a
whole extra layer of meaning, which is why I wish they'd passed on the cheap
thrill and instead let you in on the secret up front. What would have been
really interesting is if only you and Bastila knew for a while and none of
the other NPCs did. Now that could have lead to some interesting dialog and
NPC interaction.
CCF
> Well, I've addressed this before. I think enough people would do a
> double-take that some buzz would be created and word would reach the "right"
> people. There is no need for people to walk up to the PC and say, "hey, are
> you Revan?" - just a need for enough whispers to start. I also think that
> there's no way s/he could have gone back to Korriban. No way at all
Yeah but Revan ins't a superstar. He's just one of many Jedi and his
fame comes when he's on a battlefleet away from everyone- unless CNN
stops in. I can see where he might not be a public figure except to
those folks who knew him.
Plus, he always wore that mask you find so maybe he had the KISS effect
on his side as well.
Sarah
news:V%DTb.9503$F23....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Yeah but Revan ins't a superstar. He's just one of many Jedi and his
> fame comes when he's on a battlefleet away from everyone
Revan visited all the planets you visit again - remember, you're retracing
your steps.
> Plus, he always wore that mask you find so maybe he had the KISS effect
> on his side as well.
S/he didn't always wear the mask. S/he had a life before turning to the
dark side.
There are two groups of people - one group thinks the plot is plausible and
the other one doesn't. They will never agree. The end.
Julie d'Aubigny
I'm not arguing that your comment wasn't valid, I was just feeling
cynical. Apparently not cynical enough, though.
CCF
> "CCF" <c...@XsprintmailX.com> wrote in message
> news:V%DTb.9503$F23....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
>>Yeah but Revan ins't a superstar. He's just one of many Jedi and his
>>fame comes when he's on a battlefleet away from everyone
>
>
> Revan visited all the planets you visit again - remember, you're retracing
> your steps.
Sure, I've been to Prague but I doubt anyone there recognizes me now. I
just don't think he was BT enough to warrant automatic recognition.
hell, I'm watching Joe Lieberman wander around a boat show on TV and no
one knows who the hell he is.
> There are two groups of people - one group thinks the plot is plausible and
> the other one doesn't. They will never agree. The end.
Well so much for discussion.
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
Not a lot! She kisses like a fish! ;-)
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
S
p
o
I
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
I don't know if the 1.01 patch has fixed the "romance
dialog" bug with Bastila. I gather that if you talk to
her again after the "kiss", which you never actually
get to see, you loose the option to bring up the romance
during dialogs with her on the temple or the Star Forge.
I'm not even sure it applies only to dark side characters.
I decided not to risk it.
BTW, a little advice on dealing with Bastila. Tease her.
Mercilessly. I don't think you can get the romance with
her if you don't. It would have been nice had there been
similar amount of banter with a female character - verbal
sparring with Bastila is a lot of fun.
Also, make sure the "kiss" and the reconciliation with
her mother take place before the encounter with the
Leviathan.
--
There are two ways of telling the complete
truth - anonymously and posthumously.
-Thomas Sewell
m...@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu
: Robert Oliver wrote:
:>
:> And let's not forget that the Republic has yet to
:> invent the bathroom. The atmosphere must be fairly
:> thick on the Ebon Hawk. I don't even want to think
:> about what Zalbaar does when nature calls.
:
: I think there was a restroom hidden somewhere in Dark Forces.
There were rest rooms all over the place in Dark Forces, some of them
filled with stormtroopers, too!
Mark.
--
Mark P. Nelson, Programmer/Analyst III
Department of Integrative Biology, Thomson Laboratory
Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos -- the only sysadmins that matter
m...@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu
:>
: Actually, I plan to play the game second time around as an evil character.
: But does being evil limit the romance storylines? It should do really, ("I
: love you PC; despite your homicidal maniac nature...") but I never explored
: them properly, so want to do that a bit more but play evil too.
If you play as a female darksider, the ending with Carth is different,
and well worth the price--that wretched whiner!
Sarah
> > There are two groups of people - one group thinks the plot is plausible
and
> > the other one doesn't. They will never agree. The end.
>
> Well so much for discussion.
You're right, I was a bit short. But I've had this same discussion about
three times now, and I'm saying the same tired old things in response to the
same tired old arguments. Sorry. I think I'll avoid the topic of "was the
part of the storyline about the PC's identity plausible" from now on.
(ok, do I get light points for this or what? ;-) )
Sarah
> > Ok. Haven't played through as a male to that point yet so I'll keep it
in
> > mind, though my plan is to play through as a light side male. There
> wasn't
> > a kissing scene with Carth and I did get the romance stuff with him.
Did
> I
> > miss something?
> >
> >
>
> Not a lot! She kisses like a fish! ;-)
Ok, you're a bastard, because I read this at work and it kept cracking me up
all afternoon. And I couldn't get the thought of "god, I hope it doesn't
happen on Manaan" out of my head! :-)
Sarah
> > Ok. Haven't played through as a male to that point yet so I'll keep it
in
> > mind, though my plan is to play through as a light side male. There
wasn't
> > a kissing scene with Carth and I did get the romance stuff with him.
Did I
> > miss something?
> >
> As far as I'm aware, no. Just the scene on the beach.
I did get the scene on the beach, but having just told Juhani we had a
future, I played it coy with Carth instead of flinging myself into his arms
and professing my undying love. I said something like, "slow down, we still
have a lot to do". Mission's response to this was hilarious, BTW.
>
> S
> p
> o
> I
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
>
> I don't know if the 1.01 patch has fixed the "romance
> dialog" bug with Bastila. I gather that if you talk to
> her again after the "kiss", which you never actually
> get to see
Bummer.
> you loose the option to bring up the romance
> during dialogs with her on the temple or the Star Forge.
> I'm not even sure it applies only to dark side characters.
> I decided not to risk it.
So I shouldn't talk to her after the "kiss" until after she's turned to the
dark side, right?
> BTW, a little advice on dealing with Bastila. Tease her.
> Mercilessly. I don't think you can get the romance with
> her if you don't. It would have been nice had there been
> similar amount of banter with a female character - verbal
> sparring with Bastila is a lot of fun.
Yeah, my female teased her a lot and it is fun, though obviously you don't
get the romance. It's not as fun to tease Carth.
> Also, make sure the "kiss" and the reconciliation with
> her mother take place before the encounter with the
> Leviathan.
Will do. Thanks.
Sarah
news:bvotlq$20ig$3...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> If you play as a female darksider, the ending with Carth is different,
> and well worth the price--that wretched whiner!
SPOILER...
Actually, I felt ripped off. *I* wanted to kill him, not have a cut scene
do it. (I saved my game before the confrontation with Bastila and played
through both light and dark scenarios from there).
Did anyone else find Bastila a bit comical for the dark scenario? She
seemed to scamper around a lot, constantly saying "Maaassster". I don't
know, I just found it funny - she didn't seem half as dignified as she did
when she was a Jedi.
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
finding her habit of rolling her hips constantly very intimidating. I wonder
if she does that for Malak as well or just the PC?
-=Matt=-
-=Matt=-
"CCF" <c...@XsprintmailX.com> wrote in message
Don't they all! Must be the subsequent metalic limbs that go hand in hand
with the dark side...!
> > -=Matt=-
> >
> >
>
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
Well, that is where it happened for me. I tended to let
the conversations come as they would rather than trying
to force things along. It should happen on the 3rd
planet, whichever it is.
--
Sacred cows make the best hamburger.
-Mark Twain
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
Still, it could be worse... she could have lips like a Gizga
-=Matt=-
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
Yes. Apparently the game engine won't allow the characters to
actually touch. With one exception... Your party members seem
to make excellent roadblocks.
>
> > you loose the option to bring up the romance
> > during dialogs with her on the temple or the Star Forge.
> > I'm not even sure it applies only to dark side characters.
> > I decided not to risk it.
>
> So I shouldn't talk to her after the "kiss" until after she's turned to the
> dark side, right?
I wouldn't. Of course, there is always quick save/quick load
if you're curious.
>
> > BTW, a little advice on dealing with Bastila. Tease her.
> > Mercilessly. I don't think you can get the romance with
> > her if you don't. It would have been nice had there been
> > similar amount of banter with a female character - verbal
> > sparring with Bastila is a lot of fun.
>
> Yeah, my female teased her a lot and it is fun, though obviously you don't
> get the romance. It's not as fun to tease Carth.
The "audition for masterhood" dialog? That was funny. But a
male character get considerably more dialog options.
Example (from memory so excuse any mistakes.):
PC: You wanted to talk?
BS: How did you know?
FemPC:
1 Your face is scrunched up like a Kinrath pup's.
BS: <calmly> Amusing but hardly accurate....
2 Educated guess. You've been staring.
BS: <calmly> (Speech about being a Jedi and not showing
her emotions)
MalePC:
1 You've been staring. See anything you like?
BS: <Indignant anger, fists on hips> You are the vainest,
most arrogant man I've ever met....
2 Your face is scrunched up like a Kinrath pup's.
BS: <Indignant anger, fists on hips> _A_ _kinrath_
_pup_...
3 Educated guess. You've been staring.
(I didn't try this one. I would guess the same as 2 from
above)
Options 1 and 2 lead to:
1 You're so cute when you're embarrassed.
2 You have feelings for me?
Both of which lead to an extremely flustered and frustrated
Bastila.
>
> > Also, make sure the "kiss" and the reconciliation with
> > her mother take place before the encounter with the
> > Leviathan.
>
> Will do. Thanks.
>
My pleasure.
Sarah
> In article <nNWTb.123644$ef.37130
> @twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
> DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
me up
> > all afternoon. And I couldn't get the thought of "god, I hope it
doesn't
> > happen on Manaan" out of my head! :-)
> >
>
> Guess what? ^_^
>
> Well, that is where it happened for me. I tended to let
> the conversations come as they would rather than trying
> to force things along. It should happen on the 3rd
> planet, whichever it is.
Change of plan then. I was going to do the planets in the order Kashyyk,
Tatooine, Manaan, and Korriban, but now I'll just fall off my chair laughing
if the kiss happens on Manaan. So I'll do Manaan before Tatooine instead.
I can never be kissed on Manaan now! :-)
Sarah
> Yes she reminded me of a kid acting all spoilt.
Yes, that's a very apt description. She seemed smaller too, if that's
possible.
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> <m...@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:bvotlq$20ig$3...@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
> > If you play as a female darksider, the ending with Carth is different,
> > and well worth the price--that wretched whiner!
>
> SPOILER...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, I felt ripped off. *I* wanted to kill him, not have a cut scene
> do it. (I saved my game before the confrontation with Bastila and played
> through both light and dark scenarios from there).
According to posts in the Bioware forums there was an ending
left out of the game. You could allow Carth to "redeem" your
character, kill Bastila, and go down with the Star Forge.
Probably just as well. I can't imagine anyone having gotten
to that point and then having the character they've nurtured
and cared for commit suicide.
The sound files for this ending actually get installed
on your HD.
NM45AACART02000_.wav
NM45AACART02011_.wav
NM45AACART02013_.wav
NM45AACART02044_.wav
NM45AACART02049_.wav
NM45AACART02052_.wav
NM45AACART02053_.wav
NM45AACART02057_.wav
NM45AACART02061_.wav
-> Note - these are not (standard) wave files. You can rename
them as *.mp3 files and play them with Winamp. Don't forget
to undo the rename or the game might break.
>
> Did anyone else find Bastila a bit comical for the dark scenario? She
> seemed to scamper around a lot, constantly saying "Maaassster". I don't
> know, I just found it funny - she didn't seem half as dignified as she did
> when she was a Jedi.
>
LOL. I don't remember her doing much scampering. In truth, I
found Bastila to be an effective sycophant. And I loved the
breathy way she said "master". She made it sound almost
sexual. Of course it might be because I'm male. ^_^ YMMV.
Sarah
> >
> > SPOILER...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> According to posts in the Bioware forums there was an ending
> left out of the game. You could allow Carth to "redeem" your
> character, kill Bastila, and go down with the Star Forge.
> Probably just as well. I can't imagine anyone having gotten
> to that point and then having the character they've nurtured
> and cared for commit suicide.
Yeah, I can't see it, though it certainly would be a change for the hero to
die in the end. But what would be the point of killing Bastila if you're
all going down anyway? If you were truly redeemed, surely you'd try to turn
her right to the very end.
> LOL. I don't remember her doing much scampering. In truth, I
> found Bastila to be an effective sycophant.
I found that she was constantly telling me what to do next, which was
annoying. I felt like saying, "Bastila, do shut up, or your probationary
period as my apprentice will come to an abrupt end. I'm the master,
remember. I'll decide what to do next."
> And I loved the breathy way she said "master". She made it sound almost
> sexual. Of course it might be because I'm male. ^_^ YMMV.
Bastila does have her sexually charged moments, but not as my apprentice.
Now, my blonde chick as dark Revan in her dark Jedi robes during the end
game scene - *she* was hot. Of course, it helped that she was standing up
normally, and not with one of her hips stuck out, the ridiculous posture
usually used by the female PC and female NPCs during the game.
Robert Oliver
@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> "Robert Oliver" <rbol...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1a8a2ad71...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > SPOILER...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > According to posts in the Bioware forums there was an ending
> > left out of the game. You could allow Carth to "redeem" your
> > character, kill Bastila, and go down with the Star Forge.
> > Probably just as well. I can't imagine anyone having gotten
> > to that point and then having the character they've nurtured
> > and cared for commit suicide.
>
> Yeah, I can't see it, though it certainly would be a change for the hero to
> die in the end. But what would be the point of killing Bastila if you're
> all going down anyway? If you were truly redeemed, surely you'd try to turn
> her right to the very end.
I assume it's to stop her from using her Battle Meditation
to aid the Sith fleet. Besides, you've just betrayed her.
I don't imagine she would take that very well.
> > LOL. I don't remember her doing much scampering. In truth, I
> > found Bastila to be an effective sycophant.
>
> I found that she was constantly telling me what to do next, which was
> annoying. I felt like saying, "Bastila, do shut up, or your probationary
> period as my apprentice will come to an abrupt end. I'm the master,
> remember. I'll decide what to do next."
>
You're right, I hadn't really noticed. Of course, after the
events on the beach have transpired her conversation options
become extremely limited.
> > And I loved the breathy way she said "master". She made it sound almost
> > sexual. Of course it might be because I'm male. ^_^ YMMV.
>
> Bastila does have her sexually charged moments, but not as my apprentice.
>
> Now, my blonde chick as dark Revan in her dark Jedi robes during the end
> game scene - *she* was hot.
I went with the black haired woman with the short ponytail. The
female Jedi you see on the Endar Spire. Unless, of course you're
using her. There's just something about that face...
> Of course, it helped that she was standing up
> normally, and not with one of her hips stuck out, the ridiculous posture
> usually used by the female PC and female NPCs during the game.
That is annoying isn't it? It's almost as if they're
posing for a clothing or lingerie ad.
But it's not nearly as annoying as that strange head
jerking motion the male characters start doing when
hitting on a female PC. Is it supposed to be manly?
Sexy? Are they having muscle spasms? A seizure?
Every time it happens I feel like reaching for a steel
wool pad to scrub off the ick.
--
It is wrong always, everywhere and for everyone
to believe anything on insufficient evidence.
- Clifford's dictum -
Sarah
> I assume it's to stop her from using her Battle Meditation
> to aid the Sith fleet.
That's true, I never thought of that.
> Besides, you've just betrayed her. I don't imagine she would take that
very well.
Can a master betray the apprentice? Hmm. I do think Revan could have
turned her after Malak was dead because my impression of Bastila when all
was said and done is that she was indeed very weak mentally. I don't think
she could have stood on her own and been leader of the sith. Bastila was a
follower, not a leader, even though she tried to act like one at times (and
failed).
> You're right, I hadn't really noticed. Of course, after the
> events on the beach have transpired her conversation options
> become extremely limited.
There are no conversation options that I recall after the beach scene, at
least for a female PC.
> I went with the black haired woman with the short ponytail. The
> female Jedi you see on the Endar Spire. Unless, of course you're
> using her. There's just something about that face...
That's who I'm playing through as right now and the very first game I
started (and abandoned) was using her. I agree that she has a striking
face. I've got two games on the go right now - a light male soldier for the
romance options with Bastila - I chose the handsome looking guy with the
longish hair, and the second game is with the one you've mentioned as a
light female scout. I can't play the entire game as dark - I tried once and
made it up to the first planet after Dantooine but I just find the
situations and dialog you have to choose too ridiculous and I don't like how
the PC looks as they fall more and more to the dark side.
> That is annoying isn't it? It's almost as if they're
> posing for a clothing or lingerie ad.
That's exactly what it looks like.
> But it's not nearly as annoying as that strange head
> jerking motion the male characters start doing when
> hitting on a female PC. Is it supposed to be manly?
> Sexy? Are they having muscle spasms? A seizure?
LOL. The only guy I noticed doing that was Tanis, the hunter on Tatooine
whose wife leaves him a nasty surprise in the desert. He looked like he had
Tourette's. I didn't really notice any of the other guys doing it. I
thought it was a bug...
mr bernard langham
> "Robert Oliver" <rbol...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1a8b73496...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> But it's not nearly as annoying as that strange head
>> jerking motion the male characters start doing when
>> hitting on a female PC. Is it supposed to be manly?
>> Sexy? Are they having muscle spasms? A seizure?
>
> LOL. The only guy I noticed doing that was Tanis, the hunter on
> Tatooine whose wife leaves him a nasty surprise in the desert. He
> looked like he had Tourette's. I didn't really notice any of the
> other guys doing it. I thought it was a bug...
Tanis' involuntary tic (whenever he's being sleazy) was a deliberate joke,
I'm sure. The game engine isn't capable of making him slobber or lick his
lips in a slimy fashion to enhance his lack of appeal, hence the tic. I
thought it was hilarious.
In fact, later on (if you're female and have persued his conversation tree
to the bitter end) Carth does the *exactly the same tic*. Eek!
--
>^..^<
Bernard
www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~langhb01
Sarah Jaernecke
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:
> Yes she reminded me of a kid acting all spoilt.
What did you expect? All young darksiders in KotOR act that way. >:)
Uthar and Yuthura are the only Sith I can take seriously, and the
latter's heart isn't even wholly in it. Even Malak himself is criminally
underdeveloped and, apart from a few of his lines, pretty stereotypical.
Ugh, that stupid Evil Laugh(TM) has to go.
However, what really annoyed me about the DS endgame is that it's all
about Bastila. She does the talking, she friggin' tells you what to do
and not to do (!!!), and Master Vandar and Admiral Dodonna babble about
Bastila this, Bastila that without even wasting a thought on the return
of the Dark Lord Revan. Just who is supposed to be in charge here,
Bioware?!
--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
(nightfi...@web.de)
Kookie Jar's quote of the day:
"The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'."
- Abby Powers on rec.games.frp.dnd
Sarah
news:4021...@quokka.wn.com.au...
> Tanis' involuntary tic (whenever he's being sleazy) was a deliberate joke,
> I'm sure. The game engine isn't capable of making him slobber or lick his
> lips in a slimy fashion to enhance his lack of appeal, hence the tic. I
> thought it was hilarious.
Well, the joke went over my head. I can see what you're saying but it
looked so unnatural that I didn't take it as a joke.
> In fact, later on (if you're female and have persued his conversation tree
> to the bitter end) Carth does the *exactly the same tic*. Eek!
Ah yes, now that you mention it I do seem to remember something like that
with Carth. Surely there was a better way for them to show embarassment or
whatever it was he was supposed to be feeling!
Sarah
news:jr9420d8lag1b8cgs...@4ax.com...
> However, what really annoyed me about the DS endgame is that it's all
> about Bastila. She does the talking, she friggin' tells you what to do
> and not to do (!!!), and Master Vandar and Admiral Dodonna babble about
> Bastila this, Bastila that without even wasting a thought on the return
> of the Dark Lord Revan.
Exactly! That's why I found Bastila comical for the dark ending. She kept
telling me what to do. Like, hello? It's me, Revan, remember. Your
Master? And you're right, Vandar says Bastila must have turned to the dark
side but doesn't mention Revan at all. But there were a number of points in
the story where stuff like that annoyed me, so by the end I found it more
amusing than anything else.
Robert Oliver
@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> "mr bernard langham" <speedw...@spammustdie.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4021...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> > Tanis' involuntary tic (whenever he's being sleazy) was a deliberate joke,
> > I'm sure. The game engine isn't capable of making him slobber or lick his
> > lips in a slimy fashion to enhance his lack of appeal, hence the tic. I
> > thought it was hilarious.
>
> Well, the joke went over my head. I can see what you're saying but it
> looked so unnatural that I didn't take it as a joke.
>
> > In fact, later on (if you're female and have persued his conversation tree
> > to the bitter end) Carth does the *exactly the same tic*. Eek!
>
> Ah yes, now that you mention it I do seem to remember something like that
> with Carth.
IIRC the first time it happens first during the "apology"
dialog which follows his "out of the loop" rant.
> Surely there was a better way for them to show embarassment or
> whatever it was he was supposed to be feeling!
>
Embarrassment, no. Preening, yes. It's appears to be some
sort of exaggerated sexual display intended to impress the
female of the species. I found it to be quite creepy.
--
In war as in love, we must
achieve contact to triumph.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
Sarah
> IIRC the first time it happens first during the "apology"
> dialog which follows his "out of the loop" rant.
My god you have a good memory for the NPC dialog. I'll keep a watch out for
it when I get to that point again.
> Embarrassment, no. Preening, yes. It's appears to be some
> sort of exaggerated sexual display intended to impress the
> female of the species.
In that case it was a joke!
> I found it to be quite creepy.
Like I said, I thought was a bug. I sat back and thought, "what the hell is
that?". So I didn't find it creepy... or funny. I honestly thought there
was a glitch.
Andreas Baus
> "CCF" <c...@XsprintmailX.com> wrote in message
>> Plus, he always wore that mask you find so maybe he had the KISS effect
>> on his side as well.
> S/he didn't always wear the mask. S/he had a life before turning to the
> dark side.
That's what confuses me... the vision of Revan's and Malak's visit to the
ruins on Dantooine shows both of them in their full 'Sith Lord' get-up...
but that was where they found the *first* map, which put them on the trail,
and it supposedly wasn't until they followed the maps to the rim and found
the Star Forge that they fell to the dark side for (haha!) good, under the
Forge's corrupting influence.
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
Andreas Baus
> What the Jedi Council was thinking of is difficult to understand.
Oh, yes, that's so true... when I played an 'evil bastard' (this one almost
got to 'pure dark' on the alignment scale before even leaving Taris for the
first time) I escalated the situation between the two farmers on Dantooine
so the two killed each other and their kids... and when I came back to
report, they let it slide (having Mission along at that time provided the
most interesting insight, because she apparently can tell they're putting
up an act). Two families slaughtered, and they let it go - presumably
against better knowledge - why? For the "greater good"? Ok, they need
Revan's memories to find the Star Forge - but after such a display, they
must be unbelievably naive to still belive they can control him/her...
Sarah Jaernecke
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:
> Now, my blonde chick as dark Revan in her dark Jedi robes during the
> end game scene - *she* was hot. Of course, it helped that she was
> standing up normally, and not with one of her hips stuck out, the
> ridiculous posture usually used by the female PC and female NPCs
> during the game.
LOL! I thought I was the only one who found that annoying. Why would an
ass-kicking Jedi sway around like a reed in the wind and gyrate her hips
like a cheap hooker? Makes me want to slap the females upside the head
and tell them to stand up straight and stop sticking out their chests
and butts unless they *want* to have serious back problems in a few
years. >:)
--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
(nightfi...@web.de)
Kookie Jar's quote of the day:
"Hardware is that part of the computer system we can kick, whereas
software is the part we can only curse at".
Sarah
news:c0016t$csb$1...@news.tu-darmstadt.de...
> That's what confuses me... the vision of Revan's and Malak's visit to the
> ruins on Dantooine shows both of them in their full 'Sith Lord' get-up...
Revan was in full Sith lord get-up (at least the robes) but Malak wasn't.
And he still, um, had a complete face.
> but that was where they found the *first* map, which put them on the
trail,
> and it supposedly wasn't until they followed the maps to the rim and found
> the Star Forge that they fell to the dark side for (haha!) good, under the
> Forge's corrupting influence.
That's something else I found dumb. In the ruins dream, they seemed to
already know what the Star Forge was and that it was "dark", hence the "once
we open this door there's no going back" melodramatic dialog. But how could
they know when they hadn't found the Star Forge yet and had no idea what lay
behind the doors (the map)? We know the guardian droid wasn't any help in
that regard.
There are quite a number of places in the game where stuff like this happens
that just doesn't make sense based on what you already know or find out
later (another one is Bastila mentioning that there's no mention of the Star
Forge in the academy archives when you're talking to the guardian droid, yet
how would she know since she's not a master and you're told when you ask
where the archives are that only masters have access to them). And then
there's...
-=Matt=-
"Sarah" <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote in message
...the fact that you never actually sense anyone else with the force! It
could be like, "What do you sense Bastilla?" "Nothing." and then Shit,
there's Malak stood there!
It would be nice if the sub woofer gave out a low rumble or something like
in the films I reckon. Something to indicate that your character can
actually use the force for other purposes than 'force push' 'force speed'
and 'force nod head in silence and look interested'.
-=Matt=-
Sarah
> LOL! I thought I was the only one who found that annoying.
I noticed it right away and thought "oh, please".
> Why would an ass-kicking Jedi sway around like a reed in the wind and
gyrate her hips
> like a cheap hooker?
And constantly stick her ass out, making it very accessible to other
ass-kicking Jedi. I forgot about the swaying but yeah, that too.
> Makes me want to slap the females upside the head
> and tell them to stand up straight and stop sticking out their chests
> and butts unless they *want* to have serious back problems in a few
> years. >:)
I'm surprised that one of the light/dark situations for females wasn't being
solicited for sex while standing on a Taris corner.
Sarah
> ...the fact that you never actually sense anyone else with the force! It
> could be like, "What do you sense Bastilla?" "Nothing." and then Shit,
> there's Malak stood there!
Actually, that reminds me of something else I noticed. That your bond with
Bastila doesn't come into play at all after the leviathan. I would think
that you'd at least sense something to indicate that she'd turned to the
dark side before actually meeting up with her.
> It would be nice if the sub woofer gave out a low rumble or something like
> in the films I reckon. Something to indicate that your character can
> actually use the force for other purposes than 'force push' 'force speed'
> and 'force nod head in silence and look interested'.
Yes, they could definitely have worked in something like that. For example,
if you had to use the force to locate the star maps, it would have been more
interesting.
Robert Oliver
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
in public. There's a reason for that empty bunk room.
--
Nothing in life is more exhilarating as
to be shot at without result.
- Winston Churchill -
Robert Oliver
@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> "Robert Oliver" <rbol...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1a8caba56...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>
> > IIRC the first time it happens first during the "apology"
> > dialog which follows his "out of the loop" rant.
>
> My god you have a good memory for the NPC dialog. I'll keep a watch out for
> it when I get to that point again.
>
birthday is, and I endlessly misplace my glasses and car keys
but I can remember the details of games I haven't played in
a decade.
> > Embarrassment, no. Preening, yes. It's appears to be some
> > sort of exaggerated sexual display intended to impress the
> > female of the species.
>
> In that case it was a joke!
Well, it went over my head.
> > I found it to be quite creepy.
>
> Like I said, I thought was a bug. I sat back and thought, "what the hell is
> that?". So I didn't find it creepy... or funny. I honestly thought there
> was a glitch.
>
I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't right. I had started
another game and was on Dantooine. I just finished dealing
with Juhani in the Grove and had returned to the enclave.
I stopped to Nemo, the elderly Jedi standing just outside the
entrance, and there was a conversation option I hadn't
noticed before. Something about Mandelorians - don't remember
the exact wording. Well, I chose the dialog option and he
started doing it. Now I'm just confused. And it's still
just as creepy.
Robert Oliver
@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
> news:MPG.1a8a2ad71...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > SPOILER...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
<snip>
>
> Now, my blonde chick as dark Revan in her dark Jedi robes during the end
> game scene - *she* was hot. Of course, it helped that she was standing up
> normally, and not with one of her hips stuck out, the ridiculous posture
> usually used by the female PC and female NPCs during the game.
>
I found the "bad" ending to be just as cheesey as the "good"
ending, though for different reasons. Getting there was a
good deal more dramatic.
And if you want *hot*...
http://home.ix.netcom.com/~rboliver/Screen%
20Caps/KotOR/KotORcap12.jpg
Damn word wrap.
Robert Oliver
@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom says...
character walk instead of run (the <B> key). Preferably
in armor rather than robes. They walk like models on
a runway and amazingly, the rolling motion of
the buttocks is even more exaggerated. It's positively
hypnotic.
Rick Russell
Sarah <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote:
> already know what the Star Forge was and that it was "dark", hence the "once
> we open this door there's no going back" melodramatic dialog. But how could
The Jedi masters make a number of references to extensive history and
archives. And then they make quite a big deal out of denying access to
your player character.
My guess is that R&M gained access to the archives (through special
permission or subterfuge), found some coherent reference to the
Rakatan and the Star Forge. Their lust for knowledge is
well-established. They investigated the ruins, then passed word of the
Star Forge secretly to the Sith. They knew they couldn't romp around
the galaxy without raising suspicion, unless they were on their way to
save the Republic.
Canderous says explicitly that the Mandalorians were paid and supplied
by the Sith. What better reason for the Jedi to mount a massive
expedition to the outer reaches of the galaxy?
In fact, it's quite possible that the Jedi Masters already know about
the Star Map(s), including the map on Dantooine, but they don't say
anything explicitly because they don't want the main character to know
what's going on. They want him/her to rediscover the memories
"naturally".
So, they send a very old Jedi Knight into the ruins, then use a rescue
mission as an excuse to "discover" the local Star Map.
> later (another one is Bastila mentioning that there's no mention of the Star
> Forge in the academy archives when you're talking to the guardian droid, yet
> how would she know since she's not a master and you're told when you ask
> where the archives are that only masters have access to them).
Ding.
Of course, whether Bastila knows about the local Star Map or not, we
have to assume that she's lying through her teeth most of the game
anyway. In fact, I always credited her deception with turning her to
dark side... especially when she realizes she is in love with the main
(male) character, but must keep lying to him.
Rick R.
Sarah
news:c01n46$cgo$1...@joe.rice.edu...
> In fact, it's quite possible that the Jedi Masters already know about
> the Star Map(s), including the map on Dantooine, but they don't say
> anything explicitly because they don't want the main character to know
> what's going on. They want him/her to rediscover the memories
> "naturally".
If the Jedi Masters knew about the map on Dantooine, then they don't need
the PC to rediscover their memories. Any Jedi could have gone into the
ruins, looked at the map, visited the 4 planets to find the other star maps,
and gone to the Star Forge, just as Revan and Malak did. The PC's lost
memories wouldn't be required.
On top of this, everyone keeps saying that they have no idea how the Sith
amassed such a big fleet, blah, blah, blah. If there were clues in the
archives, I have to think that things would have proceeded differently. If
Revan and Malak could figure it out from what they found in the archives,
then so could the masters, one would hope. So I doubt there were references
to the star forge or star maps in the archives.
> So, they send a very old Jedi Knight into the ruins, then use a rescue
> mission as an excuse to "discover" the local Star Map.
They didn't need the excuse, though. They used the shared dream as an
excuse to go check it out.
> Of course, whether Bastila knows about the local Star Map or not, we
> have to assume that she's lying through her teeth most of the game
> anyway.
Yes, this is true. That's how I justified my light side character suddenly
going dark. The betrayal and disillusionment when she realized that Bastila
(and the council) had been using her all along. That and the fact that the
Jedi are a boring, pompous bunch on the edge of becoming insane. Repressing
all of one's emotions does that to you.
Okay, so perhaps the archives aren't limited to the masters - they just
wanted to keep the PC away from them for whatever reason. But I do believe
Bastila when she said that there was no reference to the star forge/star
maps in them, otherwise there was no need to have Revan retrace his/her
steps.
Sarah
> I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't right. I had started
> another game and was on Dantooine. I just finished dealing
> with Juhani in the Grove and had returned to the enclave.
> I stopped to Nemo, the elderly Jedi standing just outside the
> entrance, and there was a conversation option I hadn't
> noticed before. Something about Mandelorians - don't remember
> the exact wording. Well, I chose the dialog option and he
> started doing it. Now I'm just confused. And it's still
> just as creepy.
Well, I've just saved a game near Nemo so I'll ask about Mandelorians and
see what happens...
Sarah
> I found the "bad" ending to be just as cheesey as the "good"
> ending, though for different reasons. Getting there was a
> good deal more dramatic.
That's true. The light ending didn't sit too well with me - after all, I
was the one responsible for the death and destruction in the first place.
And I'll assume my true identity wasn't common knowledge because I doubt any
sort of crowd would have turned out...
> And if you want *hot*...
>
> http://home.ix.netcom.com/~rboliver/Screen%
> 20Caps/KotOR/KotORcap12.jpg
Yeah, that's the face I'm using now in my current game. I think I said I
was playing a scout but I'm actually playing a scoundrel, the only class I
haven't finished the game with. You should try playing with the blonde
sometime...
Sarah
> If you've applied the 1.02 patch, try having a female
> character walk instead of run (the <B> key). Preferably
> in armor rather than robes. They walk like models on
> a runway and amazingly, the rolling motion of
> the buttocks is even more exaggerated. It's positively
> hypnotic.
Okay, this is laugh out loud funny. It reminds me of those silent movies
where everything is sped up. The guys look normal when they walk, though...
Rick Russell
Sarah <DELscrub...@DELrogers.DELcom> wrote:
> If the Jedi Masters knew about the map on Dantooine, then they don't need
> the PC to rediscover their memories.
Well, sure they do. As you probably noticed, most of the Jedi are
hopelessly incompetent :-)
Besides, it's not like the Star Maps on each planet were easy to
find. The former Revan was uniquely equipped to relocate them.
> On top of this, everyone keeps saying that they have no idea how the Sith
> amassed such a big fleet, blah, blah, blah. If there were clues in the
> archives, I have to think that things would have proceeded differently.
Again, I think this is just intentional deception. It's a fair bet
that the Jedi Masters (and before them, Revan and Malak) knew little
of the Star Forge -- just that it's a legendary fortress of Dark Power
located somewhere beyond the outer rim of the galaxy.
If they lay the entire story on your character right from the start,
he/she will get suspicious. The "mission of discovery" serves two
purposes: to give Bastila time to extract the information from your
visions, and to give your main character time to redeem
himself/herself and find a new path.
It's all a big gamble, of course, since your character might rebel
against the manipulation of the Jedi and turn evil again.
> (and the council) had been using her all along. That and the fact that the
> Jedi are a boring, pompous bunch on the edge of becoming insane. Repressing
> all of one's emotions does that to you.
Yes, but Jolee is there to show you that there is a middle ground.
> But I do believe Bastila when she said that there was no reference
> to the star forge/star maps in them, otherwise there was no need to
> have Revan retrace his/her steps.
But they still need to find all the Star Maps to locate the Star
Forge.
Rick R.
Rick Russell
Robert Oliver <rbol...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I've been thinking about that. If you saw, oh say... Saddam
> Hussein walking down the street would you think, "hey that's
> Saddam Hussein" or would you think "hmmm, that guy looks like
> Saddam Hussein".
Well, if you saw him with a cannister labelled "SARIN GAS -- MILITARY
GRADE -- COMPLIMENTS OF MORTON THIOKOL", you might recognize him after
all.
Bastila wanders around Taris _wielding her lightsaber_. Legendary,
ancient weapon of the Jedi. At least they could have forced her to use
a double-bladed melee weapon instead of a saber.
Rick R.