Cleve and Gould
august
death, I think it's worth reposting a little debate Cleve had in
talk.orgins some time ago. Note that his hatred for Gould has
everything to do with Gould's stance on genetics, which clashes with
Cleve's racism. Also note that Cleve, despite his ability to write,
understands nothing about scientific subjects. This doesn't stop him
from posing, however.
This is a long one, and goes into several hilarious side issues.
The Annotated Greatest Hits of Cleve vs. Talk.Origins Thread
This is really long, but entertaining. Cleve's bits are noted with
his name where it's not obvious, the sensible people are simply noted
with } My after the fact comments are all bracketed. Note that many
of Cleve's opponents list PhD's with their sigs, and unlike certain
usenet personalities, they seem genuine.
[It begins with Cleve taking potshots at S. Gould, a well-known
scientist. Don't worry, we'll get to his idiotic racism and
misunderstanding of several branches of science momentarily.]
Cleve} Gould has become a comical embarrassment to mainstream
science. He is openly ignored at conventions and rarely even replied
to by any serious evolutionary thinkers. It is not unusual for
scientists to actually do an about face, turn their backs to him in
public and refuse to speak to him. They don't do this because he is
considered to be controversial. They do this because he is widely
perceived to be some kind of polemical village idiot in the field of
evolutionary science. At many conventions you can see the pudgy,
bearded somewhat grungy looking Gould shambling idly about on the
floor sipping at a diet coke being ignored by his colleagues who fear
being seen even speaking to him.
}Speaking of polemics, your rant hardly smacks of objectivity. And if
pudge and diet coke are reasons for embarrassment, then few academics
would succeed, I think. Wasn't Gould recently elected president of
AAAS? Or am I thinking of another SJG? "Mainstream science" has
elected their villiage idiot out of, what?, an obscure sense of humor?
I think treating Gould as controversial (and a strong personality,
which is certainly not unusual in academia) is probably a more
accurate representation than "villiage idiot".
[Then Cleve tried to tangle with another poster and get smacked]
Cleve} Lysenko keep his position in Soviet Biology for so many years?
Because of his *brilliant* or "controversial" ideas? I don't think
so. Lysenko literally screamed down his detractors... literally. He
ruined their careers, flooded them with hyperbole, indundated them
with gobbledegook. That isn't science.
}Are you claiming by extension that Gould has been elected by AAAS by
the threat of ruined science careers? And somehow you also claim that
he weilds so little influence that he is ignored and considered a
"villiage idiot" at scinece meetings. What an interesting assertion.
And yet some of the most outspoken anti-Gould evolutionary biologists
(at least anti-PE types) are the likes of Russ Lande, Jerry Coyne,
Brian Charlesworth. These folks have hardly had their careers ruined.
Cleve} Gould is one of those nuts around the fringes who writes these
elaborate straw man arguments that impress the hell out of people with
average IQs who are themselves laymen.
}Yes, the members of the general paleontology community and AAAS are
rather known for their paucity in IQ. Anybody who knows what they are
Cleve} doing can see through Mr. Charlatan in about ten seconds ...
}Including, evidently, the recent editorial boards of Science, PNAS,
Linnean Society, Journal of Paleontology, etc. (Although I'll readily
agree that Gould isn't nearly as productive recently as he could be.)
Cleve} Gould is your average Marxist monster ... a pathological liar
who succeeds by making you think that nobody could be so immoral as
to go around impersonating a scientist and speaking deliberately in
such a misleading way. He is following Hitler's advice ... most men
are more prone to believe a big lie rather than a small one. People
think that no human being could be this evil ... they are wrong, this
is what Gould is and this is what this vile, greasy creature does. It
is the goal of Marxism to baffle people into submission with a
bewildering array of arguments delivered in grand confident tones ...
read Communist Revolutionary writing. This is why Gould's "fellow"
scientists despise him so much ... not because he is merely
mistaken,(they'd easily forgive this, it happens to most anybody at
times) but they know perfectly well that he is an abomination from
hell who does what he does on purpose, not by accident. Gould has an
agenda and it is a very evil one indeed. But you keep believing that
such a creature could not possibly keep a straight face delivering
this intellectual garbage .... that is Gould's secret power over you
and anybody who reads him avidly.
}Wow. What an amazing amount of horse shit. I'm leaving it in for
entertainment value. (And I'm no follower of Gould, but this is
amusing hyperbole -- not to mention some failed rhetorical trickery
and ad hominem attacks, not the least of which is judging his science
by his putative political views.)
[Now the conversation takes a turn, as one of the posters does a
search on Cleve, and finds those wriggly racist worms beneath his
titanium skull]
}I just read some of your posts on deja.com, and you're a pretty
frightening guy. What I find most remarkable are statements like the
following: "There is a gap because the other "ethnic groups" are
radically biologically different. Research has shown time and time
again that the way that whites and blacks react to stress, incentive,
reward and novelty constitute fundamental differences in innate
biology. [snip] "Black and white children have been put into rooms
with a wide variety of toys available to them. The black children go
for the weapons and begin enacting mock tribal combats as soon as they
are left alone. White children tend to pick up toys that appear
visually interesting or challenging, including technological tools
like computers or video games. If or when black children approach
computers, it is not out of curiosity but out of a desire to destroy
them or vandalize them."
}What's most amazing about this is that, along with 29 posts to
alt.rush-limbaugh (some titled applauding JFK, Jr's fall), one of
which has the following quote: "Why don't you let me know where I can
find you, tiny man, and we'll split two ginsu knives and see who hits
the pavement first. I confess I'm not exactly a newcomer to that game
so if you need some practice first you get all you want before you
contact me. I'm sort of the Carl Lewis of the sport, in fact if they
gave away Olympic medals I'd probably take home a gold in that event."
[Whee! Cleve reasserts, then everybody jumps in]
Cleve}You think this isn't accurate or researched out the gazoo?
}Yes. I think there is very little evidence of any kind about the
"innate", i.e. genetic, differences between whites and blacks with
respect to things like intelligence, mental capacity, and emotional
reaction. I'd be happy to review sources that you suggest. I've done
so before.
2nd person}Cite the research.
Cleve}What's your point? Are you saying these studies have no
validity, or are you saying like many modern people who have
completely lost touch with the real world, that science itself has no
validity?
}My point was multiple. First, I chose this quote to show your
attitude toward race. This was to test a hypothesis of mine, namely
that what offends you so much about Gould was not his science (which
you have hardly mentioned, except to say that he is out to discredit
all of it) but his public dismissal of things like eugenics. Second, I
chose this quote because I found it ironic that an avid a gamer as
you, and one who makes threatening comments to people on the web,
should find fault in anyone's "mock tribal combat". I'd laugh, but
actually I'm too disgusted. Finally, I chose this quote because of
your representation of a study, the details (i.e. citation) of which
you do not include. Finally, with respect to your previous point,
there is nothing in the scant and biased review of this putative study
that suggests an "innate" element of children's actions.
2nd person}You haven't mentioned any studies, you've just made an
assertion. Perhaps you could make it clear when & where these studies
were carried out & by whom. What was the methodology? Where were the
results published?
[Dazed and confused, Cleve begins name-calling]
Cleve} You're SUCH a liberal sissie, it is astonishing. You can barely
stop your wrists from spinning around your elbows.
}Is this where I say, "do not"?
[We'll skip a side trip into McCarthyism, but you'll see some
references to that bit below. We continue where Cleve rants some more
and dodges requests for scientific backing for his claims]
Cleve} Please hit the "STOP" button on your playback of your received
ideas. I already know the spiel by heart, blah blah blah. They taught
me the same thing in high school and college ... but in time I came
to believe something else.
Cleve} There is a difference between knowledge and belief. A huge
difference. You can believe whatever you want, but the rest of us
will use knowledge. Knowledge such as McCarthy was on a political
witch hunt, destroying careers and people for no more reason than to
further his own political agenda. An agenda which was decidedly
unAmerican.
Cleve} Once again you seem to misunderstand the difference between
"your knowledge" and the real world.
}Too late to save the irony meters.
[Now we include a side trip where Cleve attempts to educate the others
on other scientific facts they're unaware of, included the benefits of
shark liver oil. I goes with his general point that they're all
ignorant of Cleve's secret knowledge. No, I'm not kidding.]
Cleve}I doubt if your beloved authority figures have told you this,
but following up any form of cancer with superantioxidants like OPC's
(Pycogenol) is becoming de rigeur for progressive doctors who actually
know what they are doing nowadays.
}What the fuck are you talking about now, moron? Hey, I noticed you
shut up about race wars when I pointed out that you have no idea what
my race is. :-).
Cleve}Couldn't be a black man - they still haven't figured out how to
use the computers they stole in the '92 riots. Then again, I heard the
new WEB TV is so simple even a brother could use it, so ... I guess
we'll be seeing a lot of dogs and cats surfing the web shortly as
well. Might be hispanic - I dunno. Who cares?
[shark liver oil again]
Cleve}Your cells mutated once.
}Twice, probably. You knew that many cancers are caused by two
mutations, right?
Cleve}That means the genetic tendency is likely to be there. They'll
mutate again unless you question your authority figures and do
something to inhibit it. But by all means, ignore the advice.
}Uh, you know nothing about DNA, right? I'm guessing here. Could you
explain what a 'genetic tendency to mutate' is? Mind you, using
antioxidants to try to mop up various things that can cause DNA
lesions is not a bad thing per se.
[A brief side trip for Cleve's insults]
Cleve}This desire to bend over for the dominant male and be
ceremonially mounted, to be stripped of your weapons for
self-defense, to passively aqquiesce to government assaults on your
private liberty ... tell me that you are far more female than male.
You're thin boned, limp wristed and a bit of a seriously contrived,
posturing pussy. Sad that relatively soon in the United States
you're going to find yourself between a pack of criminal insurgents
with guns and an evil government with guns, whereas middle class
whitebread like yourself were willingly disarmed with ease. You're
going to be everybody's bitch, count on it. Maybe if you're lucky
they'll castrate you and make you into a "comfort girl" in one of the
government recreation camps.
}Wow. And until today, I thought the NRA was a tad extreme.
2nd person}Yeah. And I considered that maybe I was misreading things
when I thought I saw a lot of homoerotic imagery in the gun nuts'
literature. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but sometimes a gun
*is* a penis substitute for someone with serious doubts about his
masculinity.
[Cleve starts rambling again about shark liver oil, and will get bitch
slapped a bit further down]
Cleve}Also shark liver oil will stimulate your immune system to ferret
out any misbehaving cells from now on. This stuff (in my humble
opinion) is about ten times as effective as any prescription cancer
medication, 100% non toxic, has no known side effects and is dirt
cheap compared to the poison those baby killing quacks will try to
sell you. They have growth inhibitors they prescribe nowadays that
basically encourage the entire body to perform suboptimally, in the
hopes the cancers cell will become weak and sickly as well. This is
the exact opposite of a sane approach. They should try to supe up the
body so it can properly identify and destroy aberrant cells rather
than cut, burn n' weaken the body so nothing grows. A wide range of
regular vitamins A, E, C, Zinc, Chromium and Mg plus K even for
healing are essential too. After big trauma like you have been through
I'd hit my body in the morning and night with a saturation dose of all
the good reinforcement vitamins plus OPCs and shark liver oil.
Cleve}As Nietszche pointed out, a shallow mind of common constitution
is nearly incapable of understanding the brief and concise ideas
generated by a man who has plumbed intellectual depths the likes of
which they can't even imagine. They have no experience for the kind of
profound perception of such people, it falls outside the range of
human thought that they have been exposed to.
}Naturally, CMB thinks of himself as one of these extraordinary
intellectuals. Let's see if it's true.
Cleve}Always, without fail, such men mistake my kind of person for
simpleminded, when in fact they just aren't capable of comprehending
that I've already OUTGROWN all of their arguments, having held them at
one time and eventually discarded them. My brevity, clarity and power
is derived from the fact I'm not affecting a viewpoint at all or even
defending my convictions.
}This registered 47 HOLDENS on my Irony-O-Meter. Does anyone have a
late model Ego-Meter? Did it survive? [snip]
Cleve}"Felipe," I've read about 4 hours a day, usually 1-2 books a day
average for the past 30 years of my 36 year span on this planet. At
certain points in my life I've read 18 hours a day, 8-10 books a day
on average (more sometimes) for several years without interruption.
}Wow! That means that you've read at least 10,000 books. I'm
impressed. But comic books don't really count, do they?
}Even more important to understand ... I retain a great deal of what I
read, far more than ordinary people do.
}Nobody is going to accuse you of being ordinary.
Cleve}Furthermore, my mind integrates what I have read into my
existing knowledge of the world with stunning dexterity.
}Amazing. How do you do it? Were you born with this special gift or
did you acquire it through a good education in the public schools?
Cleve}Nobody needs to spell it out for me. I can read a book about
crop rotations in Russia and immediately draw inferences and
connections unconsciously to a previous book I've read about the
tendency of Africans to deforest their own lands and destroy the top
soils written by an African missionary. It is no work for me at all,
in fact probably most of the association and cross referencing of
information is done for me while I sleep by my unconscious.
}Thanks for explaining this. I've often wondered about your ability to
make associations and draw inferences. I'm relieved to hear that it's
not due to any conscious activity on your part. That confirms my
suspicion.
Cleve}I'm sure you understand that such spartan intellectual training
is simply impossible for a regular mortal. Even if they did not have
responsibilities like work, food and rent ... there still is no
guarantee that they would have the necessary drive, discipline or
curiosity to devote themselves so wholeheartedly to aqquiring
understanding. The brainpower just isn't there.
}Sigh. Us regular mortals owe you a great debt of gratitude. We are
grateful that people like you condescend to share with us your
infinite wisdom and wonderful new paradigms.
Cleve}Your average man is interested in sex, status, sleep and
football.
} I'm not really interested in sleep.
Cleve}There isn't a real hunger to analyze existing social trends to
project possible developments in the next few decades ... like all out
civil war along race lines. The push just isn't there inside an
ordinary person.
}I'm just an ordinary person but I bow to your extraordinary insight
into future trends. I'm not an American but isn't there something I
could do? If I buy a gun, who should I shoot?
Cleve} To answer your silly little comment about shark liver oil. I
have to make myself think and speak really slowly in order to explain
this and it is uncomfortable.
}This is going to be good, I can hardly wait.
Cleve}I have to keep in mind that I'm talking to a person who is not
on the cutting edge, probably doesn't read widely and knows little of
emergent developments in medicine and science. Probably someone who
gets most of their information from television. I've got to spell
everything out explicitly without assuming any common reference for
either of us. It's not easy.
}I take it you're on the cutting edge and have read widely in the
fields of medicine and science? How many of the 10,000 or so books
were about real science and medicine?
Cleve}Shark liver oil contains amazing compounds called
alkoxyglycerols. I'm not going to add a bunch of links to clinical
papers or studies. I assume you have heard of Alta Vista. Go do a
search and see what you turn up. To put it briefly, they are
extraordinarily powerful anti- oxidants. The connection between free
radical damage and cancer is very, very, very, very well established.
}I did a search of the scientific literature for "alkoxyglycerols" and
turned up ten papers. The most recent was published in 1986. Seven of
the ten papers were by the same author (A. Brohult). Most of these
papers are in obscure journals or issues that are deep in our
library's archives so I wasn't able to find out anything about
alkoxyglycerols. I also looked in the biochemistry textbooks (I've
read a few of these) and didn't find anything about alkoxyglycerols. I
checked my scientific dictionaries and turned up nothing. Finally I
checked out my books on mutagenesis and the effects of free radicals
and discovered that alkoxyglycerols weren't mentioned. What this
means, of course, is that CMB is so far out on the cutting edge that
most scientists aren't even aware of the amazing compounds called
alkoxyglycerols. Let's see what's on the web - we all know about the
world wide web and how up to date it is on the latest developments in
medicine and science. Sure beats television, doesn't it? Here's
something, http://www.healthaire.com/history.html This cutting edge
article says that alkoxyglycerols were discovered in shark liver oil
way back in 1922 (no references). According to the author of this web
page, alkoxyglycerols are the key substances in mother's milk that
provide infants with natural immunity against infection. Hmmm ....
Check out the immunology textbooks ... nothing there. I bet those dumb
immunologists haven't read 10,000 books. Here's something else. It's a
reference to a TV clip (Eyewitness News) on the healing effects of
shark liver oil.
http://www.healthaire.com/tv.html It must be real because it's been on
TV. It gets better. Here are a couple of other references to
alkoxyglycerols. http://thehealingpine.com/sharkliveroilorder.html
http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/lpvitamins/immune.htm
}What these web pages show is that there are companies that sell shark
liver oil to promote better health. This is real cutting edge stuff.
Cleve}Studies with aog using radioactive markers reveal it is easily
absorbed by the body through intestinal lining. Studies also reveal
(using control groups, placebos and no supplement) that aog has very
powerful effects in cancer in inhibiting growth of cancerous cells,
stimulating the immune system and tissue repair. The list is too long
here and I'm too short tempered to go through my library and find all
the positive effects it has on well-being. You do the deductions, I'm
getting really bored now.
} In my search of the scientific literature I found a few papers from
the 1970's and early 1980's that claimed alkoxyglycerols (whatever
they are) will inhibit cancer cells. All the papers were from the same
lab and were published in obscure journals. I assume that CMB must be
referring to much more recent work on the cutting edge. These many
papers have probably not been published yet and that's why I can't
find them. Perhaps CMB would be kind enough to let us mortals know
when to expect publication of these scientific studies? I hope he
isn't too bored to deal with ordinary people who are trying to learn.
} [sacrasm off] Alkoxy substituents consist of an alkyl group (methyl,
ethyl etc.) linked to another molecule through an ether linkage. If
the other molecule is glycerol then one example of an alkoxyglycerol
would be, CH3-O-glycerol (methoxyglycerol) Glycerol is a common
molecule in living cells and is the major component of many lipids.
Most of the time fatty acids are linked to glycerol through an ester
linkage and not the ether linkage expected in a compund called an
alkoxyglycerol. I have no idea which "alkoxyglycerols" are found in
shark oil but as a class of compounds they aren't significant players
in biochemistry. Perhaps the name actually refers to something else
that is more familiar to scientists. [sarcasm back on]
Cleve}As for OPCs ... well, again, I assume you are pulling enough 'G'
force upstairs to type in the words on Alta Vista and do a search,
which will connect you to hundreds upon hundreds of documents with
clinical evidence on the effectiveness of this second anti-oxidant.
[severe bitch slapping ensues again]
}Hmmm ... I wonder what OPC's are? My small brain just can't
understand all this cutting edge stuff. Let's try Alta Vista to get
the latest medical and scientific results. Here's something ...
http://www.primarysourceopc.com/ This tells me that OPC's are
"Oligomeric Proanthocyanidins". They'll cure you of aging and make you
smarter. (I wonder if that's what CMB used?) There are ten papers in
the scientific literature. Some of them show a modest anti-oxidant
effect. One or two claim to show a clinical effect. Most of the OPC's
are derived from plants. [snip]
Cleve) Sharks don't get cancer.
)Yes they do. You need to read a few more books.
Cleve}Sharks have strange livers that produce these weird compounds
called alkoxyglycerols.
}Could you please tell me what's strange about shark livers and what
kind of alkoxyglycerols you are referring to? I assume that this is
information that you read and, given your remarkable memory, you
shouldn't have much trouble supplying the information as soon as you
read this.
Cleve}Aog is the most powerful antioxidant known to man amongst many
other properties.
}Could you please supply a reference? Most of us ordinary people
aren't able to retain information the way you do so we forget such
important details. You should be able to back up your statement right
away because you are so knowledgeable. Excuse me for boring you but
it's the price you have to pay for being a genius.
Cleve}Antioxidants control free radical damage in the body. Free
radicals definitely cause cancer in some situations by literally
bouncing off organic molecules during cell duplication and destroying
RNA transfers. This turns out a mutated cell because the manufacturing
process has been interfered with.
}You know, sometimes people like you are so far ahead of the rest of
us that your words sound like gibberish. This is one of those times.
Cleve}A postmodernist or Marxist would say "so?" after being trained
for years in university to deliberately cultivate awesome stupidity in
themselves through practice. They'd also probably insist that water
was just as good a source of hydration on a desert island as sand.
}Be patient. Universities teach stupidity and some of us haven't had
your advantage of being exposed to the real world of health foods.
Cleve}Think. Shark. Antioxidant. Free radical. Cancer.
}Sorry, too many steps for me. I can't get beyond "think" and "shark".
Cleve}Anything coming to you yet?
}Not yet. Keep trying.
Cleve}See? I tried to be patient, here I am too bored to go on.
}Oh please don't stop now. Have pity on us mortals. This is fun.
[now if you or I were bullshitting, we might be inclined to stop,
because we're not up to standard. But we're not Cleve. He makes some
claims about chemistry and women]
Cleve}They discovered the hormone last year, it is called Oxytocin and
women have 6 times as much in their bloodstream as men. It is almost
perfectly isolated as the hormone responsible for maternal feelings
and impulses. Do I get a refund on my tuition?
}Uh, discovered? I'm not sure when oxytocin, also called pitocin, was
_discovered_ but the structure was described in 1953, so somewhat
before that.
2nd person}Would this be the same Oxytocin that was used to induce
labor in my wife just over two years ago? I don't know about your
college tuition, but you'd better start questioning whatever you're
using for info sources in the last year
Cleve} By the way, Larry, intelligence is 99% genetic and 1%
conditioning.
}Evidence?
2nd person} CMB is an authority on everything. The "evidence" is his
statement, which must be correct because he is so much more
intelligent than the rest of us and has read more than 10,000 books.
It's a waste of time asking CMB to back up his statements. He doesn't
understand the question.
3rd person}This is part of Cleve's unique use of frequencies,
estimates, and averages. Many cultures that don't rely on quantitative
skills have numbering systems like, "one, two, three, many". Cleve's
use of frequencies seems to be similar. Anything greater than roughly
half is "99%" -- to the extent that it suits his world view. (Some
might call this lying, perhaps comparing it ungenerously to Sen. Joe
McCarthy's varying estimates of the number of "card carrying
Communists" in Congress, which coalesced at one point to 57 -- a
number evidently gathered from a bottle of catsup. But I prefer the
hypothesis that it is a result of Cleve's cultural upbringing, esp
w.r.t anything analytical or quantitative, and his unique view of the
world.)
}The most generous estimates of the genetic component of IQ (e.g.,
reviewed in Jensen's "The G Factor") are about 85%. This, of course,
has little to do with the differences among races in measured IQ,
given that even monozygotic twins reared apart were still reared in
similar environments. Few, if any, twins started out in Harlem and
wound up in the Hamptons. Estimates more often used are between
30-70%, comparable to most quantitative traits that aren't strongly
related to evolutionary fitness. (Such traits tend to have very low
heritabilities, e.g. litter size in pigs or mice, 5% and 20%,
respectively; or egg production in poultry or Drosophila, 10% and 20%,
respectively. See Falconer 1989 or Falconer and MacKay 1996 for
discussion). Actually, Falconers estimate of heritability of IQ score
from twin data is around 34%, with the caveat that this is probably a
better estimate of genetic contribution to IQ than heritability in the
narrow sense. Even with the caveats, I'm more willing to trust
Falconer, who literally wrote the book on heritability, than Jensen,
whose background is in psychology.
}Keep the faith, baby.
[and back to naked racism]
Cleve} If you had ever been around black men anywhere coast-to-coast
in any city for 10 seconds, I'm sure you have noticed it is virtually
impossible for an unaccompanied female to pass a black man on the
street without them making a variety of lewd smacking noises or
turning and following her or propositioning her.
}Oh, this is a pretty easy one to refute. I grew up in black
neighborhoods. Except for a few years in Minnesota, I've lived my
entire life in either largely (greater than national average, let's
say at least 20%) or predominantly (let's say at least 75%) black
neighborhoods. I've had thousands of interactions with single black
men. (Interesting change of tense you use, by the way.) The vast, vast
majority entailed nothing like what you describe. Thus I refute you.
But I confess, I have seen behavior similar to that which you describe
on a very few occasions. Funny thing is, I've seen it as often among
Italian-American men as black men, and I've spent a lot less time in
Italian neighborhoods. Are you suggesting that Italians are inherent
sexual degenerates, too?
}For that matter, there is one ethnic group in the State's that's
famous -- even notorious -- for incestuous rape and pedophilia. That's
the Scotts-Irish of the Appalachians. Inbreeding is so common in some
of these people that genetic anomalies never seen before pop up there.
From what I gather, these populations are more Scottish than Irish;
the big Irish immigrations wound up in Northern industrial areas. So
you're claiming that Scotts are somehow genetically predisposed to
incestuous rape and pedophilia? Perhaps it's their low intelligence
and their inability to keep their hands off little girls.
Cleve} with an average IQ of 85, how the hell could they imagine any
long term consequences or even dream of delaying their short term
gratification?
}Speaking of IQ, here's an interesting find. IQ's have increased over
the last couple generations. That is, an IQ result that would have
earned a score of 100 a couple generations ago would only earn a score
in the low 80's now, e.g.,
http://www.amsci.org/amsci/articles/97articles/nartifact.html If you
think that intelligence is determined mostly by genetics, then you
have to conclude that the population has changed so radically in the
last two or three generations to account for this change. What would
cause such a genetic change, perhaps an influx of Hispanic immigrants?
Few thinking people believe that the change is genetic. Instead, the
probable cause is that modern people are better trained in the
abstract tasks that IQ tests measure. Hmmm, training. What groups live
in such economically blighted areas that they might not get adequate
schooling in these skills? The other thing we can conclude is that
someone scoring in the 80's on an IQ test today would do better than
average if he took the test in the 30's. That is, the average black
person today, even by Cleve's statistics, is still smarter than the
average American of any stripe in the 30's. [snip]
Cleve} Just how much of this do you think white men could take in the
reconstructed South, where the North encouraged freed slaves to take
retribution on the conquered whites there?
}Well, Cleve, the point is that they didn't have to put up with any of
it because they fabricated the charges. The supposed victims of these
crimes were the ones that wouldn't sit still for lynching. Women were
so horrified by what amounts to the torture and murder of innocent men
that they led a campaign against lynching.
Cleve} You claim I feel threatened by the "sexual" threat of black
men.
}Oh, no. I claimed that there is a broad pattern of white male sexual
insecurity feeding American racism, and that you seem to fit that
pattern. I never claimed that you feel sexually threatened by black
men. (Do you?) I dasn't ask the source of your sexual insecurities.
Cleve} I advise you to speak less and read more, you're just another
largely subliterate TV watching stooge.
} Still no sources for those studies, huh? Are the insults an
attempt to change the subject?
2nd person}Insults, bullying, and red-baiting seem to be Cleve's m.o.
On other groups he resorts to chest-thumping, bragging about his size
(he is evidently impressed enough that he thinks others should be
swayed to his line of thought by the force of his bulk alone), and
occasional threats of violence. Even folks at alt.rush-limbaugh have
scolded him. This is an individual who, by all appearances, has some
serious issues of self-worth to deal with. To his credit, he usually
uses correct spelling and grammar.
[Post mortem. Cleve ran away. His sources were pop culture books for
the mass market. I know long time Cleve watchers will be shocked, but
he seemed at a loss to provide research papers that supported his
views on races, women, pitocin, shark liver oil, or anything else.
For the original thread in all its glory, search talk.origins]
Dosey69
Alexander Mars
I wonder why Cleve singled out Gould, there are a lot of people who disagree
with Darwin on one point or another.
-Well, God was my co-pilot....but we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat
Him.
www.atar.com/alexmars (yet another useless web site)
Arklier
<snip log post>
This serves to prove what most of us already knew. Mainly that Cleve
knows as much about biology as he does about game design. Which is to
say, nada. I think the entire sum total of his working cerebral cortex
could fit comfortably inside a thimble with room to spare.
-
If you can't figure out my address, you need help.
Bill Silvey
"Arklier" <ark...@hotnospammail.com> wrote in message
news:kj9ffu4cod8uur8a2...@4ax.com...
> On 31 May 2002 08:57:59 -0700, augu...@hotmail.com (august) wrote:
>
> <snip log post>
>
> This serves to prove what most of us already knew. Mainly that Cleve
> knows as much about biology as he does about game design. Which is to
> say, nada. I think the entire sum total of his working cerebral cortex
> could fit comfortably inside a thimble with room to spare.
Didn't Cleve at one point start eating shark oil by the 55-gallon drumfull?
Apparently even GR3AT ARYAN GAME DESIGNERS are subject to medical quackery.
--
http://home.cfl.rr.com/delversdungeon/index.htm
Remove the X's in my email address to respond.
> I don't think anything short of no-boot would put Macists off Mac.
> The last stable OS was System 6.0.8. So long as system messages
> are phrased as if a patronising aunt were addressing a retarded
> 4-year-old, they will continue to love it. - Patrick Ford
chy...@ludens.elte.hu
> What the hell are you talking about
Try reading it.
> and why are you doing it here?
Because Cleve is on-topic here. This wasn't the original
intention of the NG, you may not like it, but if you've
been around for a while, you'll know it.
Besides, I enjoyed it.
Chyron
--
It is good to have an end to journey towards,
but it is the journey that matters in the end.
We are all travelers, whatever our position,
and as one traveler to another, I salute you.
Bob Perez
"august" <augu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c346d728.02053...@posting.google.com...
<snip a fascinating read>
Thanks for that entertaining and informative angle on the unfortunate Cleve.
I've often wondered what the real story was behind this provocative poster
with the small mind. It's comforting to know that he's unable to back up any
of his desperate ideas and that in the end he's just another snake oil
salesman (um, make that shark oil).
- Bob Perez
Brian H.
But rumors said that shark's liver also contains substantial amt of mercury.
Is it "brain damage" when one's took too much mercury?
Cleve Blakemore The Real One
> Since Cleve attempted to slam Gould upon the eminent scientist's
> death, I think it's worth reposting a little debate Cleve had in
> talk.orgins some time ago. Note that his hatred for Gould has
> everything to do with Gould's stance on genetics, which clashes with
> Cleve's racism.
Ad hominem. Your hatred for Cleve has everything to do with his stance
on genetics and clashes with your own self-destructive urges. Your
leftist pretense at objectivity is not convincing.
> Also note that Cleve, despite his ability to write,
> understands nothing about scientific subjects. This doesn't stop him
> from posing, however.
>
Old Michael Moore trick from his numerous unfunny and unoriginal
socialist propaganda documentaries. Present something as ridiculous,
carve out a little snippet, then show it and tell the audience they
should laugh or what reaction they should have to it. GM Motors had to
shut down their plant in Detroit or go broke. To listen to Michael
Moore, you'd think they had done something illegal or somehow
warranting death. Sometimes companies have to shut down plants,
because of bad management, competition or sometimes just unfortunate
circumstances. Michael Moore is a fat, tiresome fool - and so are you.
By the way - all those miraculous abilities I am always laying claim
to, like flawless perfect recall, superhuman absorption and retention
of literature, uncanny ability to connect different facts across very
wide subject ranges? Those are very, very common qualities found in
autistic people and people with Aspberger's Syndrome. In fact, they
are nearly de rigeur for such people. You take a person with a very
high native IQ, give them Aspberger's in their formative years, you'll
likely get a superhuman computation device of some sort or another.
They may be social clods or completely hopeless at communicating well
with ordinary people, but it doesn't mean their abilities are fake -
quite to the contrary.
Aspberger's Syndrome almost always carries an accompanying frustration
in talking to neurotypicals who lack enthusiasm, breadth and active
curiosity for ideas in general. The worst ones are the "ejimicated"
ones - they are the most narrowminded of them all. That is why
homeschooled students have been kicking their asses on all fronts for
the past two decades.
Autists often express disdain for trying to talk to others at all and
sometimes their brevity can seem baffling or even crazy. When they do
talk, their baud rate is so high everything comes out like a long
nervous screech. Most autists of this flavor are only really
comfortable talking to other autists enabled with the ability to
communicate many different ideas very rapidly without having to stop
to explain where one aqquired it all. For example, if another autist
said to me, "Dirty bombs from Soviet Coast in fall," I'd know
instantly he was speaking about the unattended small reactor power
sources that have been robbed off the coast of Russia by unknown
people. He would not have to take fifteen minutes to tell me what a
dirty bomb was, how it was used, who would be motivated to steal such
material or when we could expect an attack using such weapons and by
who. Our mutual context would be so much richer than your own it
really would be something you could only imagine.
This is why I just drop "shark oil" like that. I can't even imagine
going back and carefully priming my audience with the long history of
OPCs in nutrition, what they do and how they work or why they can
retard cancer. I don't know if I could even be bothered to write a
post that long ... to what end? Nobody will get what you are saying
anyway, why elaborate? There will be those who understand what you are
talking about and a majority who don't. Usenet is read by 89% people
who think professional wrestling is real. No context there. No
communication possible. Such people are not really human in the way
the public discourse pretends humanity is defined. They are more like
clever people-simulators. I'm sure those very breed of people would
have the same strange instinct about me at times - something unearthly
or surreal in my manner they could not put their finger on. You should
step into an autist's shoes for fifteen minutes and listen to ordinary
people babble about all kinds of pointless gibberish - celebrities
they've never met they speak of as though they were close personal
friends, football, social gossip, farting, beer, their next party,
immediate gratification of desire, football, sports, sports, beer,
farting, gossip about Jane Goodall style shifting alliances of social
status and power that seem so important to them, football, farting and
some more farting followed by a good beer. Your mouth would drop open
and hit the ground if you could hear through my ears for ten minutes.
Betcha had no idea people were that stupid. Remember, the average
person has an IQ of 100, Koko the Sign Language Gorilla at the
Smithsonian has scored 91 on that same test. Without the part of the
human brain that manufactures social illusions, you would not believe
what the world looks like with all that fog stripped away. It would be
like Keanu Reeves after he took the red pill.
Stop and "think" about that, Mr. Simulator ... if you can ... "think,"
that is.
James Garvin
>
> But rumors said that shark's liver also contains substantial amt of mercury.
> Is it "brain damage" when one's took too much mercury?
Isn't it the mercury fumes rather then the mercury itself?
Vorlin
news:3CFBE66A...@nospam.comcast.net...
Mercury that gets into the body through any route is bad news, since for all
practical purposes the body can't get rid of it, so it just keeps
accumulating.
If you've ever heard the phrase 'Mad as a hatter', mercury poisoning is the
basis for this saying. At some point in time mercury was used in the
process of hat making (not sure in what way), thus hat makers had a high
incidence of mercury poisoning and the resulting organic brain dementia that
often accompanies that.
James Garvin
>
> Mercury that gets into the body through any route is bad news, since for all
> practical purposes the body can't get rid of it, so it just keeps
> accumulating.
>
> If you've ever heard the phrase 'Mad as a hatter', mercury poisoning is the
> basis for this saying. At some point in time mercury was used in the
> process of hat making (not sure in what way), thus hat makers had a high
> incidence of mercury poisoning and the resulting organic brain dementia that
> often accompanies that.
Ah...got ya...thanks! I've never been very clear on that matter....
Brian H.
"Vorlin" <vor...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9ESK8.6623$EW5.5...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Probably this can explain something. Remember that Cleve's skeletal
structure contains substantial amt of "Titanium". (Well, he said that, not
me.) So where would those heavy metal come from? Ahhhh.... shark liver oil.
But heavy metal doesn't only accumulate into bones, it can also accumulate
in one's brain. If that's so, then we can understand that why Grimoire
would never be finished. And I think I start to understand why Cleve
started to see himself as the reincarnated Nietzsche.
Brian H.
The sea water contains a myriad of heavy metal elements (like mercury, lead,
and..."titanium"?) and sea creatures will absorb certain amt of them. Once
absorbed into their bodies, they usually just accumulate inside. When they
are eaten by some larger creatures, these heavy metals will pass into the
predator's body. Sharks, being on the top of the "food chain" in the sea,
will accumulate the most heavy metals. If such "Shark liver oil" hasn't
been refined to get rid of these heavy metals, then you can imagine that
Cleve will start to accumulate these heavy metals. It may not be much if he
took one bottle of these pills. But if he continually takes these unrefined
pills, the bad effect of heavy metals will surface in his later age. If he
plans to make some women pregnant, he may pass some heavy metals into his
wives or girl-friends, and of course his sons & daughters (Ok, this last
sentence is exaggerated!).
Crimson
You now have a month to finish Grimoire. The clock is ticking...
Crimson
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
august
> augu...@hotmail.com (august) wrote in message news:<c346d728.02053...@posting.google.com>...
> > Since Cleve attempted to slam Gould upon the eminent scientist's
> > death, I think it's worth reposting a little debate Cleve had in
> > talk.orgins some time ago. Note that his hatred for Gould has
> > everything to do with Gould's stance on genetics, which clashes with
> > Cleve's racism.
>
> Ad hominem. Your hatred for Cleve has everything to do with his stance
> on genetics and clashes with your own self-destructive urges. Your
> leftist pretense at objectivity is not convincing.
Anyone with a passing familiarity on your writing style just spewed
cornflakes when you wrote "ad hominem." You may not have invented the
technique, but your worked damned hard at it. I don't hate you,
though I do hate racism.
As super geniuses go, you're a couple rungs down from Wile E. Coyote
in accomplishment.
Paulon
and says...
> If you've ever heard the phrase 'Mad as a hatter', mercury poisoning is
> the basis for this saying. At some point in time mercury was used in
> the process of hat making (not sure in what way), thus hat makers had a
> high incidence of mercury poisoning and the resulting organic brain
> dementia that often accompanies that.
It was used for flattening and shaping hat brims. Pour it out into the felt
used in making the hat while it's on a hard flat surface, and it flattens
the area out nicely. I guess it could be used with moulds for other
shapes too.
--
Paulon Dragon d++ e++ N T+ Om+ UK!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!'!S!'!8!9!A!L!M!W!
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC++ uF uG+ uLB- uA+ nC+ nR nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++ nT+ y
The Other Codex http://www.ultimainfo.net/Codex/
Danger Will Robinson! One of your nodes is about to fall off!
Ultima VII endgame.exe file
Martin Scriblerus
news:Xns9223CEAF08...@127.0.0.1...
> Bingleley-bingleley-beep! A miniature Vorlin pops out of the Disorganizer
> and says...
>
> > If you've ever heard the phrase 'Mad as a hatter', mercury poisoning is
> > the basis for this saying. At some point in time mercury was used in
> > the process of hat making (not sure in what way), thus hat makers had a
> > high incidence of mercury poisoning and the resulting organic brain
> > dementia that often accompanies that.
>
> It was used for flattening and shaping hat brims. Pour it out into the felt
> used in making the hat while it's on a hard flat surface, and it flattens
> the area out nicely. I guess it could be used with moulds for other
> shapes too.
And Queen Victoria had a lovely set of china made with the new-fangled
material "radium". Explains a lot about the royal family, don't it. <g>
Ykalon Dragon
wrote:
>Hey Cleve,
>
>You now have a month to finish Grimoire. The clock is ticking...
>
>Crimson
I think he will cancel it. At least he should if he's a man of his
word. He seems to hate plagiarists. So releasing a carbon copy of
Wizardry 7 should make him a plagiarist too.
--
I think that God got a sick sense of humor and
when I die I expect to find him laughing"
- Depeche Mode "Blasphemous rumours"
Reply to ykalon at subdimension dot com
Ben
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
news:<c346d728.02053...@posting.google.com>...
> > Since Cleve attempted to slam Gould upon the eminent scientist's
> > death, I think it's worth reposting a little debate Cleve had in
> > talk.orgins some time ago. Note that his hatred for Gould has
> > everything to do with Gould's stance on genetics, which clashes with
> > Cleve's racism.
>
> Ad hominem. Your hatred for Cleve has everything to do with his stance
> on genetics and clashes with your own self-destructive urges. Your
> leftist pretense at objectivity is not convincing.
You forgot to use a sockpoppet for this, Cleve.
[snip]
Not only is Cleve fat, lazy, and generally incompetent... He's also
mentally disabled! It just gets better and better. Any other crackpot
psuedo-science you'd like to be wrong about?
Knight37
> As super geniuses go, you're a couple rungs down from Wile E. Coyote
> in accomplishment.
ROFL! Tag line SWIPED!
--
Knight37
As super geniuses go, you're a couple rungs down from Wile E. Coyote in
accomplishment.
-- August on csipg.rpg
Vorlin
news:fZ5L8.102010$352.5376@sccrnsc02...
I don't have documentation for this, so it might just be a completely
bullshit 'urban legend', but try this on for size:
Years back analog watches had glow-in-the-dark hands. The hands of the
watch glowed because they had been painted with a radium-enriched paint. At
first, the paint was applied to the watch hands by women factory workers
using fine-tip brushes. In order to get the brush hairs to come to a nice
point for applying the paint, the women used to place them in their mouths
after painting each hand to draw the brush hairs to a point...
You can imagine the consequences of the constant daily ingestation of small
amounts of radium, as well as the topical damage from the radium particles
on the lips.
If anyone out there knows if this is true or just myth, please let me know.
Vorlin
news:Xns9223E652A...@QsFQDN.dyndns.org...
> "Vorlin" <vor...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> <news:ZfcL8.17907$_p6.50...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>:
>
> > You can imagine the consequences of the constant daily ingestation
> > of small amounts of radium, as well as the topical damage from the
> > radium particles on the lips.
> >
> > If anyone out there knows if this is true or just myth, please let
> > me know.
>
>
> <http://www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/hist1/radium.html>
>
> <http://www.igc.org/solidarity/atc/79Baron.html>
>
> <http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/40/046.html>
Thanks for the links, I knew it -sounded- true but then, the best urban
legends always do. :)
Cleve Blakemore The Real One
>
> Not only is Cleve fat, lazy, and generally incompetent... He's also
> mentally disabled! It just gets better and better. Any other crackpot
> psuedo-science you'd like to be wrong about?
Disabled? The world's wealthiest man also has Aspberger's syndrome,
you sad perverted self-loathing leftist loser.
It brings a smile to my face thinking about you on your knees with
your head shaved in the middle of a Mexican circle jerk as the party
gimp. Don't worry, nobody will ever accuse you of racism, your
particular genetic line is already extinct anyway - you just don't
have enough brains to figure it out.
You are nothing more than a faded genetic ghost, a nothing creature
who will soon pass away with nobody to chronicle your words, your
deeds or your culture. It is as if you were never even born and never
even existed. No matter how loud you scream your last plaintive
objections, no one anywhere will ever even remember what they were.
It is like I can see you at the bottom of a grave with dirt getting
shoveled on your face and you going ... "Diversity! It's our
strength!" as you vanish forever under a shower of earth. Nobody cares
what you think, what your problem is or what you get angry about,
junior. A ghost has no power in this world, only grief that is itself
an echo of the past.
"I see a nation of hispanic people destined to reclaim their land back
and when we do we will see to it that the gringo is not even
remembered in history books. We will forget you were ever here and so
will everybody else. You were a mere interruption in our narrative,
nothing more and nothing less."
Richard Guerrera, Brown Beret (AZTLAN Reconquista Army, Los Angeles)
Mark Morrison
wrote:
I know that the paint was used in clocks and watches, but I don't know
about the factory worker part.
--
Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Mark Morrison
Genetics are a fad.
In a few years, scientists will find that God did, in fact, make the
world 5,000 years ago.
Cleve Blakemore The Real One
> I think he will cancel it. At least he should if he's a man of his
> word. He seems to hate plagiarists. So releasing a carbon copy of
> Wizardry 7 should make him a plagiarist too.
You're out of your mind. Grimoire is almost finished and it is a
fantastic game.
Grimoire is hardly a carbon copy of Wizardry 7 - it's about ten times
as good as Wizardry 6 & 7.
First came Dune. Then somebody took the RTS genre and came out with
C&C and then Warcarft. Grimoire takes Wizardry and similar games as a
genre and seeks to be the best of the bunch ever. It is not a copy of
anything.
Memnoch
One) wrote:
Could you put a release date on it? Or perhaps a Demo release date even?
Gazza
The Real One) wrote:
Yes. I've heard that just like snowflakes,
every turd is different.
g
Acid Queen
vor...@bellsouth.net says...
The expression "kiss of death" supposedly came from the mills where
women put freshly dyed thread (the mordants for the dyes were good
stuff like chrome etc) through a small hole, and used to put the thread
in their mouth to make it into a point.
AQ
Ben
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
news:<adj0p2$la9$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> >
> > Not only is Cleve fat, lazy, and generally incompetent... He's also
> > mentally disabled! It just gets better and better. Any other
crackpot
> > psuedo-science you'd like to be wrong about?
>
> Disabled? The world's wealthiest man also has Aspberger's syndrome,
> you sad perverted self-loathing leftist loser.
Not often do I get called a leftist. And Gates having Asperger's(there's
no B, you retard) is a rumor bandied about by the disabled to make
themselves feel better. Like the way black people try to claim Jesus or
Babe Ruth as blacks.
You are genetically inferior. You should've been drowned at birth,
'people' like you are diluting the genetic purity of the white race.
Perhaps that's why you obess over genetics so much, like the way Hitler
was such a big fan of Aryans.
You are such a profoundly shallow person, you wouldn't even interest a
psychologist because it would take 3 seconds to know everything there is
to know about you. Your social ineptness due to your genetic inferiority
caused you to embrace Ayn Rand's writings without understanding the
politics, primarily the part where you don't care about other people. Of
course, in a interesting twist, you weren't even smart enough to really
get that particular bit of Rand all the way, you aren't supposed to care
what other people think. But it was like a lightning bolt, suddenly you
understood that your inability to interact socially with the genetically
fit wasn't a problem, it was a mark of distinction. You were a
ubermensch, above the petty concerns of normals.
That's why your made-up dialogue in your stories about working out
sounds so stilted, you don't know how normal people talk.
> It brings a smile to my face thinking about you on your knees with
> your head shaved in the middle of a Mexican circle jerk as the party
> gimp. Don't worry, nobody will ever accuse you of racism, your
> particular genetic line is already extinct anyway - you just don't
> have enough brains to figure it out.
White people of Northern European descent are extinct! Oh no!!! I
thought I was super-smart, the chosen people of God. I do well on
standardized testing!
Wait, so who is running the country?
> You are nothing more than a faded genetic ghost, a nothing creature
> who will soon pass away with nobody to chronicle your words, your
> deeds or your culture. It is as if you were never even born and never
> even existed. No matter how loud you scream your last plaintive
> objections, no one anywhere will ever even remember what they were.
That's true. Maybe if I made up shit about shark oil and musketballs
people would remember me. Oh, and take 8 years to steal the source code
of Wizardy 7.
Robert Huston
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
[SNIP]
> Grimoire is hardly a carbon copy of Wizardry 7 - it's about ten times
> as good as Wizardry 6 & 7.
Cleve:
If Grimoire is ANY better than Wiz6-7-8 it should be an outstanding game.
How about giving us an early taste?
Regards,
Bob
Mark Morrison
The Real One) wrote:
Dune was an adventure-type game. Dune 2 was the RTS.
Courageous
>That's true. Maybe if I made up shit about shark oil and musketballs
>people would remember me. Oh, and take 8 years to steal the source code
>of Wizardy 7.
Ouch. :)
C//
Arklier
The Real One) wrote:
>Ykalon Dragon <yka...@softhome.net> wrote in message news:<oivpfuo2jj9gsmohe...@4ax.com>...
>> I think he will cancel it. At least he should if he's a man of his
>> word. He seems to hate plagiarists. So releasing a carbon copy of
>> Wizardry 7 should make him a plagiarist too.
>
>You're out of your mind. Grimoire is almost finished and it is a
>fantastic game.
You've been saying that for how many years now? After the first year,
it tends to fall on deaf ears. In fact, weren't you hyping Grimore
when Daggerfall was released back in 1996? The only game that I can
recall off the top of my head that has been in development nearly as
long as Grimore is Duke Nukem Forever.
>Grimoire is hardly a carbon copy of Wizardry 7 - it's about ten times
>as good as Wizardry 6 & 7.
That would make it less than Wizardry 8, wouldn't it? Face it, with a
production schedule years in the making, your game is not going to be
anywhere near as good as Morrowind or Wiz 8.
>First came Dune. Then somebody took the RTS genre and came out with
>C&C and then Warcarft. Grimoire takes Wizardry and similar games as a
>genre and seeks to be the best of the bunch ever. It is not a copy of
>anything.
With the way you keep pissing off potential customers on this
newsgroup, I'll be surprised if you even have an audience by the time
your game comes out, if ever.
-
If you can't figure out my address, you need help.
Brian H.
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
Your game should have been released if you have above average IQ.
Cleve Blakemore The Real One
> Not often do I get called a leftist. And Gates having Asperger's(there's
> no B, you retard) is a rumor bandied about by the disabled to make
> themselves feel better. Like the way black people try to claim Jesus or
> Babe Ruth as blacks.
You're out of your gourd. Gates spends half of his time rocking at
rest like he's having an epileptic fit. A good doctor could spot the
autism at 200 meters. Were you born this stupid or was it something
you had to work at?
> You are genetically inferior. You should've been drowned at birth,
> 'people' like you are diluting the genetic purity of the white race.
> Perhaps that's why you obess over genetics so much, like the way Hitler
> was such a big fan of Aryans.
Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life on
Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient to it.
Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the answer to
every question. Environmentalism is less than a pseudo-science, there
isn't even enough concrete data to merit calling it a discipline.
Genetics is a science because it is verifiable with repeatable
observable experimental data. Environmentalism is somewhere between
astrology and professional wrestling as a science. Maybe you could
break the news to Oprah and her audience for me.
You're a popular culture goofball desperately trying to sound hip and
not realizing like most of the masses your brain is essentially
farting dust and fungus spores you're so far behind the intellectual
power curve. You're stuck in a time loop in the 1930's intellectually
and you can't escape. That is what happens when you watch too much
televitz.
> You are such a profoundly shallow person, you wouldn't even interest a
> psychologist because it would take 3 seconds to know everything there is
> to know about you. Your social ineptness due to your genetic inferiority
> caused you to embrace Ayn Rand's writings without understanding the
> politics, primarily the part where you don't care about other people.
What is really bugging you is that I don't care about you. The truth
is you've got a massive homoerotic fascination with me and follow me
from thread to thread sweeping my fingernails into a dustpan and
putting them into your home shrine. I don't love you Ben and you have
to realize I never will, so tell your parents you're moving out and
you're going to get yourself a life. I'd quit your job as a school
crossing guard and look for something in either tourism or food
service.
> Of
> course, in a interesting twist, you weren't even smart enough to really
> get that particular bit of Rand all the way, you aren't supposed to care
> what other people think. But it was like a lightning bolt, suddenly you
> understood that your inability to interact socially with the genetically
> fit wasn't a problem, it was a mark of distinction. You were a
> ubermensch, above the petty concerns of normals.
Ayn Rand. I am so past Ayn Rand. I outgrew her by 2000. I grew beyond
Rand so quickly. Let's face it, Ayn Rand was a pretentious affected
dope who like many females just couldn't cut the mustard when it came
to good critical reasoning. Ayn Rand was an insipid control freak, a
home wrecker and one of the worst advertisements for her own
"philosophy" (ah, the USELESSNESS of PHILOSOPHERS!) she could have
possibly offered to the world. I am sure there are real female savants
in the world - Rand, however, was not one of them. Ayn Rand was
without throttle control and no accelerator. She was a woman playing
at being a man.
Ayn Rand was another human flash bang grenade. Freedom without
homogeneity of culture lasts about 5 seconds before it is taken away.
Freedom can exist only in a homogenous country based on in-group
altruism, not universal altruism. Rand was a moron who knew almost
nothing of either anthropology or genetic science, she was like the
Darwinians who were never able to grasp kin-related bias and thus
unable to explain altruistic behaviour within a gene pool. Ayn Rand
was another public performer who acted out the role of a "genius" on
the public stage ... like most celebrated female "thinkers," she was
always glancing around to see if anybody was watching while she did
her melodramatic spiel.
Like Camille Paglia, Ayn Rand was also a lousy writer. Truth.
There is so much more to the world than market theory. So much more.
Market theory explains an enormous amount ... and conceals almost as
much as it reveals. Without market theory, you don't stand a chance of
understanding anything. With only market theory, you definitely won't
understand a thing. Ayn Rand was fixated on the individual and did not
understand the biological dynamics that are the foundation of
functioning market systems. So many assumptions based on such weak
assertions.
> That's why your made-up dialogue in your stories about working out
> sounds so stilted, you don't know how normal people talk.
I don't even know what you're talking about and I don't think you do,
either.
> > It brings a smile to my face thinking about you on your knees with
> > your head shaved in the middle of a Mexican circle jerk as the party
> > gimp. Don't worry, nobody will ever accuse you of racism, your
> > particular genetic line is already extinct anyway - you just don't
> > have enough brains to figure it out.
>
> White people of Northern European descent are extinct! Oh no!!! I
> thought I was super-smart, the chosen people of God. I do well on
> standardized testing!
You're bad stock, about to be clocked, sealed in rock, zipped into a
smock, as the rappers say. Your largest musical industry consists
mostly of cultural enrichers singing endlessly about the
extraordinarily painful way in which they are going to kill you. Your
own children are the biggest customers for this music. Do you really
pretend you have a future? I think not.
You and I don't share any genes worth mentioning buddy, you're a
self-hating super-effeminate pathetic shell of a man fit to polish
pork sausage knobs in the reconquista comfort hotel and not much else.
> Wait, so who is running the country?
I wasn't aware anybody was running the country. It is clearly a ship
headed for the rocks with no captain at all at the helm. I see a lot
of cabin boys rushing around trying to play soldier ... they have
tried to make up some official sounding terms like "homeland
security." Let's face it, America is a bunch of mentally disturbed
school kids about to get whacked from ten different directions at
once. They don't have the foggiest clue of how to be men. They are
human fossils and have not yet laid down into their rock castings.
> > You are nothing more than a faded genetic ghost, a nothing creature
> > who will soon pass away with nobody to chronicle your words, your
> > deeds or your culture. It is as if you were never even born and never
> > even existed. No matter how loud you scream your last plaintive
> > objections, no one anywhere will ever even remember what they were.
>
> That's true. Maybe if I made up shit about shark oil and musketballs
> people would remember me. Oh, and take 8 years to steal the source code
> of Wizardy 7.
Or you could make up even less significant sh*t like your posts on
Usenet.
I think you must be kidding. The source code from Wizardry 8 was the
weirdest overlay clusterfuck I have ever seen. It was worse than
useless. Why would I steal that code when I am capable of writing
better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
over? Wizardry 7 was a pale shadow of what Grimoire will be when it is
released. Wizardry 7 was John the Baptist. Grimoire is the chosen one.
Lucian Wischik
>Ayn Rand. I am so past Ayn Rand. I outgrew her by 2000. I grew beyond
>Rand so quickly.
So did I :) Someone mentioned her to me, so I bought "Atlas Shrugged"
and read it in September 2000, and for the next two years Amazon insisted
on recommending Rand stuff to me whenever I logged on. It's taken two
hard years of consistent and frequent non-Rand purchases for them to
remove me from their Rand-readers database.
>Ayn Rand was a pretentious affected dope who like many females just
>couldn't cut the mustard when it came to good critical reasoning.
And I'd agree with that as well! Although you've told only half the
story... change "females" to "people" to include the other half.
Moreover, I've read most of Nietzsche and liked it. And I haven't yet
released any game I've worked on. I must be turning into a Cleve.
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Courageous
>You're stuck in a time loop in the 1930's intellectually
>and you can't escape.
Comma splice.
C//
Hong Ooi
She should never have quit the Splice Girls.
--
Hong Ooi | "What's so great about Australia anyway?
hong...@maths.anu.edu.au | It is a salted Jezebel of scorched
http://www.zip.com.au/~hong | earth forsaken by God."
Canberra, Australia | -- CMB
Stephen Smith
news:b51vfu025d81tpcbo...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:21:47 GMT, Courageous <jkr...@san.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 6 Jun 2002 06:23:05 -0700, cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore
>>The Real One) wrote:
>>
>>>You're stuck in a time loop in the 1930's intellectually and you can't
>>>escape.
>>
>>Comma splice.
>
> She should never have quit the Splice Girls.
>
>
I liked tilde splice MUCH better. She was curvy in all the right places!
Steve
Ajay Tanwar
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com:
> Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life
> on Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient
> to it. Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the
> answer to every question.
Hmmm...so genetics determines the laws of physics? Let me know when
your superior genes and shark oil let you bend spoons using your mind.
--
Ajay Tanwar | MCSE | ajta...@spam.yahoo.com
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people
in large groups." -Despair.com
Bret Ripley
>
> cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore The Real One) wrote in
> news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com:
>
> > Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life
> > on Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient
> > to it. Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the
> > answer to every question.
>
> Hmmm...so genetics determines the laws of physics? Let me know when
> your superior genes and shark oil let you bend spoons using your mind.
Child's play! The real test of genius is when you can bend minds using
your spoon. Or something.
Bret
J. Rinehart
Cleve Blakemore The Real One wrote:
> Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life on
> Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient to it.
> Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the answer to
> every question.
Bullshit, this describes Physics more than anything else. I'm a geneticist and even I don't
subscribe to this wacko hypothesis.
Rinehart
hoy.Don...@hawaii.edu
: Bret
Isn't that more a test of strength? ...brrainnnss....brAAINNnns....
--
hoy xatx hawaii xdotx education
dnashifter
> your head shaved in the middle of a Mexican circle jerk as the party
> gimp. Don't worry, nobody will ever accuse you of racism, your
> particular genetic line is already extinct anyway - you just don't
> have enough brains to figure it out.
>
Cleve Blakemore and the Mexican Circle Jerk: A Love Story
Among the Mayan ruins they sat, their pants tossed aside, their bodies
glistening with sweat in the glow of the fire. Blakemore was
astounded by the size of their cocks. He wiped away a drop of drool
that hung off the side of his mouth like a spider. It had been a long
time since he had desired to fuck the ripe brown ass of a senorita.
He had never cared much for women's cunts. They were not as tight,
not as firm, not as masculine as an anus. They were far too soft and
warm and inviting.
Blakemore stared longingly at the gimp who wimpered in fear knowing
his fate. "I want him first," said Blakemore under his breath. "I
want him to know that I am a man and to know me is to understand what
it is to be a man. None of those women ever understood me. Even when
I raped them, tore into them, implanted them with my superstrength
seed. But you will, little boy, you will."
The gimp was an illegitimate spawn of Blakemore's. The boy was born
from the womb of a 13 year old girl Blakemore had taken by force many
years ago. He did not care as much for her virgin pussy as much as he
did her cherry crap hole, but no matter. He had tied her to the back
of his truck with the ram's horns fastened on the hood and the dead
body of a koala hanging from his rear view mirror. He had taken her
like a wild bore attacks its prey. And from that attack came the most
beautiful boy/man/gimp he'd ever seen.
The circle of men got up and danced. It was their custom to always
play a Donna Summer's song at such events. The disco beat throbbed in
Blakemore's ears like a heartbeat. He could feel it, that simple
rythem that demonstrated to white men the meaning of soul. A volcano
puffed out confetti and the men whooped and hollered. The fire rose
higher as each man through another history book on the fire.
"I hate this woman-scribed rubbish that I worshiped!" Blakemore heard
himself cry as his copy of The Fountainhead went hurling into the
flames. "And now it is time," he hissed as he lunged towards the
young boy.
"No, daddy, no!" were the last cries the child made as Blakemore
separated the young man's ass cheeks and plunged inside
"YMCA!" Blakemore screamed upon entry, "YMCA!"
A disco ball dropped from the sky and the Villiage People took the
stage as the boy/man/gimp cried out in pain at the plucking of his
cherry.
"I am Ironman!" Blakemore screamed as he filled the young boy's
portal with his mega man juice, coming in only a matter of moments.
He sighed in relief, knowing it was the best sex he'd ever had. Then
he passed the boy around the circle, watching hungrily as they invaded
him. Blakemore waited with bated breath for the next time the boy
would come around the circle to him again.
Gouge
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
> better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
> over?
Good question. Maybe, because, if you were to steal the code, you would be
able to complete the game in under a decade?
Gouge
Arklier
<ajta...@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore The Real One) wrote in
>news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life
>> on Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient
>> to it. Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the
>> answer to every question.
>
>Hmmm...so genetics determines the laws of physics? Let me know when
>your superior genes and shark oil let you bend spoons using your mind.
That's our Cleve. The laughingstock of this newsgroup for the past
half dozen years.
Brian H.
you our Lord Marcus aka Pathesda BetaTester Sux aka Draconian Dragon aka
Supreme Master Blah Blah Blah, my eyes have inadvertently touched his post.
DAMN YOU!!
*vomiting*
"Supreme Master in the Order of the Dragons of Dracon"
<lordm...@dracon.com> wrote in message
news:psc0gu8jrhrfpnhil...@4ax.com...
> You are a sick phuquer!!!!!!!!!
>
> On 6 Jun 2002 18:38:43 -0700, dnash...@thevortex.com (dnashifter)
> wrote:
>
(*snipped offensive & revolting stuff*)
Cleve Blakemore The Real One
<snip>
That was not a funny thing to write. That was sick and disturbed. It
wasn't even anything like amusing. You've got all kinds of problems.
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>"Ben" <mon...@monkey.com> wrote in message news:<adlfqh$55u$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
>> That's true. Maybe if I made up shit about shark oil and musketballs
>> people would remember me. Oh, and take 8 years to steal the source code
>> of Wizardy 7.
>I think you must be kidding. The source code from Wizardry 8 was the
>weirdest overlay clusterfuck I have ever seen. It was worse than
>useless. Why would I steal that code when I am capable of writing
>better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
Wow, he mentions you stealing Wiz7 source, you reply with "wiz 8 source
was shit, why would i steal it."
>over? Wizardry 7 was a pale shadow of what Grimoire will be when it is
>released. Wizardry 7 was John the Baptist. Grimoire is the chosen one.
Ahh, so we can expect Grimoire sometime _after_ the second coming of
Christ?
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Xocyll
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:21:47 GMT, Courageous <jkr...@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On 6 Jun 2002 06:23:05 -0700, cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore The Real One) wrote:
>>
>>>You're stuck in a time loop in the 1930's intellectually
>>>and you can't escape.
>>
>>Comma splice.
>
>She should never have quit the Splice Girls.
Dammit man, keyboard warnings, keyboard warnings!
Arklier
The Real One) wrote:
Pot, meet kettle.
James Garvin
>
> Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life on
> Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient to it.
> Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the answer to
> every question.
So let us forget about physics and chemistry. Not to mention computer
science (can genetic computing really work...yes...can it solve NP hard,
NP complete, or just plain ol' NP problems....it looks like no...unless
you fill a city the size of New York with a DNA computer)
> Ayn Rand. I am so past Ayn Rand. I outgrew her by 2000. I grew beyond
> Rand so quickly. Let's face it, Ayn Rand was a pretentious affected
> dope who like many females just couldn't cut the mustard when it came
> to good critical reasoning. Ayn Rand was an insipid control freak, a
> home wrecker and one of the worst advertisements for her own
> "philosophy" (ah, the USELESSNESS of PHILOSOPHERS!) she could have
> possibly offered to the world. I am sure there are real female savants
> in the world - Rand, however, was not one of them. Ayn Rand was
> without throttle control and no accelerator. She was a woman playing
> at being a man.
Ayn Rand was posing as someone who had a brain. I read Atlas Shrugged
around 1996 and I was so amazed that anyone actually bought the crap she
wrote....
Anyway replace ...who like many females... with ...who like many
people...
> So many assumptions based on such weak assertions.
This coming from Cleve!!! Can I get a woot woot ;-)
> I think you must be kidding. The source code from Wizardry 8 was the
> weirdest overlay clusterfuck I have ever seen. It was worse than
> useless. Why would I steal that code when I am capable of writing
> better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
> over? Wizardry 7 was a pale shadow of what Grimoire will be when it is
> released. Wizardry 7 was John the Baptist. Grimoire is the chosen one.
Somehow this sounds so redundant redundant.
Cleve Blakemore The Real One
Oh, you're a physicist and yet you've never heard this often proposed
hypothesis about the relationship between physics and genetics? Have
you read THE BLIND WATCHMAKER?
Quantum physics says our perception affects reality itself. Genetics
determines how we think and WHAT we can think about. The universe
looks the way it does to us first and foremost because of our inherent
genetic design. Our genetic makeup has to be understood first before
we can make the correct conclusions about physics and our arbitrary
approximation of the world around us.
Such mental sluggards. Your minds are so imposingly dull and
commonplace. Scarcely any wit, lightheartedness or velocity in your
ideas and assumptions.
James Garvin
> > Bullshit, this describes Physics more than anything else. I'm a geneticist and even I don't
> > subscribe to this wacko hypothesis.
>
> hypothesis about the relationship between physics and genetics? Have
> you read THE BLIND WATCHMAKER?
He is a geneticist. Anyway, the relation is purely academic.
> Quantum physics says our perception affects reality itself. Genetics
> determines how we think and WHAT we can think about. The universe
> looks the way it does to us first and foremost because of our inherent
> genetic design. Our genetic makeup has to be understood first before
> we can make the correct conclusions about physics and our arbitrary
> approximation of the world around us.
Genetics does not determine how we think or what we think about.
Environment, upbringing, friends, etc determine how we think and what we
think about...at best genetics determines intellegence...however, this
isn't even clear.
Ever hear of the human genome project? It is a HUGE undertaking and
will take years to understand what each gene does. We have mapped the
entire genome, now we have to understand what each gene does.
How does physics come into play?
> Such mental sluggards. Your minds are so imposingly dull and
> commonplace. Scarcely any wit, lightheartedness or velocity in your
> ideas and assumptions.
Uh huh...
Ykalon Dragon
The Real One) wrote:
>Oh, you're a physicist and yet you've never heard this often proposed
>hypothesis about the relationship between physics and genetics? Have
>you read THE BLIND WATCHMAKER?
>
>Quantum physics says our perception affects reality itself. Genetics
>determines how we think and WHAT we can think about. The universe
>looks the way it does to us first and foremost because of our inherent
>genetic design. Our genetic makeup has to be understood first before
>we can make the correct conclusions about physics and our arbitrary
>approximation of the world around us.
>
>Such mental sluggards. Your minds are so imposingly dull and
>commonplace. Scarcely any wit, lightheartedness or velocity in your
>ideas and assumptions.
Wrong. Genetics is largely based on hypothesis. Physics are largely
based on facts.
--
I think that God got a sick sense of humor and
when I die I expect to find him laughing"
- Depeche Mode "Blasphemous rumours"
Reply to ykalon at subdimension dot com
Mark Morrison
The Real One) wrote:
>
>Oh, you're a physicist and yet you've never heard this often proposed
>hypothesis about the relationship between physics and genetics? Have
>you read THE BLIND WATCHMAKER?
>
A blind watchmaker ?
Surely he'd lose all the little springs ?
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore The Real One) looked up from
>reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
>the signs say:
>
>>"Ben" <mon...@monkey.com> wrote in message news:<adlfqh$55u$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
>
>>> That's true. Maybe if I made up shit about shark oil and musketballs
>>> people would remember me. Oh, and take 8 years to steal the source code
>>> of Wizardy 7.
>
>>I think you must be kidding. The source code from Wizardry 8 was the
>>weirdest overlay clusterfuck I have ever seen. It was worse than
>>useless. Why would I steal that code when I am capable of writing
>>better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
>
>Wow, he mentions you stealing Wiz7 source, you reply with "wiz 8 source
>was shit, why would i steal it."
>
>>over? Wizardry 7 was a pale shadow of what Grimoire will be when it is
>>released. Wizardry 7 was John the Baptist. Grimoire is the chosen one.
>
>Ahh, so we can expect Grimoire sometime _after_ the second coming of
>Christ?
>
Christ's busy beta-testing Grimoire.
dnashifter
Why, Cleve, thank you. I try.
Robert Norton
news:sk02gu0n3d5gdm3tj...@4ax.com:
> A blind watchmaker ?
> Surely he'd lose all the little springs ?
No He just throws everything into a box, and shakes it, and eventually a
watch pops out. He's got to shake it a looooong while, though!
dnashifter
I just wanted to extend my gratitude to you for your kind words
involving my post. It is not often that I am inspired to pen
something that induces vomiting, lables me a sick "phuquer", and is
offensive and revolting. It brought tears to my eyes that those 15
minutes of hard mental labor were able to bring about such a reaction
from you. Thank you.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
Next, could you do something involving sheep ?
Cross-dressing sheep, ideally.
Thanks.
Martin Scriblerus
news:3D00B9D5...@nospam.comcast.net...
> Ayn Rand was posing as someone who had a brain. I read Atlas Shrugged
> around 1996 and I was so amazed that anyone actually bought the crap she
> wrote....
While there is much in Rand's work to take issue with I'm not sure one can
reasonably characterize her or her readers as idiots. Everything interesting
garners its fair share of kooky supporters, but surely the fanatics do not
represent the mean. I mean, Allan Greenspan was a devotee at one point. Is
he an idiot?
Ajay Tanwar
> On 7 Jun 2002 18:38:25 -0700, dnash...@thevortex.com
> (dnashifter) wrote:
>>I just wanted to extend my gratitude to you for your kind words
>>involving my post. It is not often that I am inspired to pen
>>something that induces vomiting, lables me a sick "phuquer", and
>>is offensive and revolting. It brought tears to my eyes that
>>those 15 minutes of hard mental labor were able to bring about
>>such a reaction from you. Thank you.
>
> Next, could you do something involving sheep ?
>
> Cross-dressing sheep, ideally.
>
> Thanks.
Nope, we all know this group needs more erotic Fallout fanfiction.
Preferable something with Marcus, Sulik, and Cleve.
Thanks!
Robert Norton
@sccrnsc02:
> I mean, Allan Greenspan was a devotee at one point. Is
> he an idiot?
You son't have to *be* and idiot to *follow* an idiot, but it helps. Can I
get you another Jimmy Jones cooler?
dnashifter
> >> > You are a sick phuquer!!!!!!!!!
> >> >
> >> > On 6 Jun 2002 18:38:43 -0700, dnash...@thevortex.com (dnashifter)
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> (*snipped offensive & revolting stuff*)
> >
> >I just wanted to extend my gratitude to you for your kind words
> >involving my post. It is not often that I am inspired to pen
> >something that induces vomiting, lables me a sick "phuquer", and is
> >offensive and revolting. It brought tears to my eyes that those 15
> >minutes of hard mental labor were able to bring about such a reaction
> >from you. Thank you.
>
> Next, could you do something involving sheep ?
>
> Cross-dressing sheep, ideally.
>
> Thanks.
Well of course. Cross-dressing sheep are always a steller topic.
By popular demand USENET is proud to present a story so tender, so
strange, so utterly bizzare it will leave you breathless! The story
of a poster and his undying love for his woolly friends. The NEW YORK
TIMES calls it "AMAZING! THE BEST POST OF THE YEAR!" The LA TIMES
RAVES, "IT WILL ABSOLUTELY SHOCK YOU. FOUR STARS." GENE SHALLOT says,
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David Benson
"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
> augu...@hotmail.com (august) wrote in message
news:<c346d728.02053...@posting.google.com>...
> > Since Cleve attempted to slam Gould upon the eminent scientist's
> > death, I think it's worth reposting a little debate Cleve had in
> > talk.orgins some time ago. Note that his hatred for Gould has
> > everything to do with Gould's stance on genetics, which clashes with
> > Cleve's racism.
>
> Ad hominem. Your hatred for Cleve has everything to do with his stance
> on genetics and clashes with your own self-destructive urges. Your
> leftist pretense at objectivity is not convincing.
>
> > Also note that Cleve, despite his ability to write,
> > understands nothing about scientific subjects. This doesn't stop him
> > from posing, however.
> >
>
> Old Michael Moore trick from his numerous unfunny and unoriginal
> socialist propaganda documentaries. Present something as ridiculous,
> carve out a little snippet, then show it and tell the audience they
> should laugh or what reaction they should have to it. GM Motors had to
> shut down their plant in Detroit or go broke. To listen to Michael
> Moore, you'd think they had done something illegal or somehow
> warranting death. Sometimes companies have to shut down plants,
> because of bad management, competition or sometimes just unfortunate
> circumstances. Michael Moore is a fat, tiresome fool - and so are you.
>
> By the way - all those miraculous abilities I am always laying claim
> to, like flawless perfect recall, superhuman absorption and retention
> of literature, uncanny ability to connect different facts across very
> wide subject ranges? Those are very, very common qualities found in
> autistic people and people with Aspberger's Syndrome. In fact, they
> are nearly de rigeur for such people. You take a person with a very
> high native IQ, give them Aspberger's in their formative years, you'll
> likely get a superhuman computation device of some sort or another.
> They may be social clods or completely hopeless at communicating well
> with ordinary people, but it doesn't mean their abilities are fake -
> quite to the contrary.
>
> Aspberger's Syndrome almost always carries an accompanying frustration
> in talking to neurotypicals who lack enthusiasm, breadth and active
> curiosity for ideas in general. The worst ones are the "ejimicated"
> ones - they are the most narrowminded of them all. That is why
> homeschooled students have been kicking their asses on all fronts for
> the past two decades.
>
> Autists often express disdain for trying to talk to others at all and
> sometimes their brevity can seem baffling or even crazy. When they do
> talk, their baud rate is so high everything comes out like a long
> nervous screech. Most autists of this flavor are only really
> comfortable talking to other autists enabled with the ability to
> communicate many different ideas very rapidly without having to stop
> to explain where one aqquired it all. For example, if another autist
> said to me, "Dirty bombs from Soviet Coast in fall," I'd know
> instantly he was speaking about the unattended small reactor power
> sources that have been robbed off the coast of Russia by unknown
> people. He would not have to take fifteen minutes to tell me what a
> dirty bomb was, how it was used, who would be motivated to steal such
> material or when we could expect an attack using such weapons and by
> who. Our mutual context would be so much richer than your own it
> really would be something you could only imagine.
>
> This is why I just drop "shark oil" like that. I can't even imagine
> going back and carefully priming my audience with the long history of
> OPCs in nutrition, what they do and how they work or why they can
> retard cancer. I don't know if I could even be bothered to write a
> post that long ... to what end? Nobody will get what you are saying
> anyway, why elaborate? There will be those who understand what you are
> talking about and a majority who don't. Usenet is read by 89% people
> who think professional wrestling is real. No context there. No
> communication possible. Such people are not really human in the way
> the public discourse pretends humanity is defined. They are more like
> clever people-simulators. I'm sure those very breed of people would
> have the same strange instinct about me at times - something unearthly
> or surreal in my manner they could not put their finger on. You should
> step into an autist's shoes for fifteen minutes and listen to ordinary
> people babble about all kinds of pointless gibberish - celebrities
> they've never met they speak of as though they were close personal
> friends, football, social gossip, farting, beer, their next party,
> immediate gratification of desire, football, sports, sports, beer,
> farting, gossip about Jane Goodall style shifting alliances of social
> status and power that seem so important to them, football, farting and
> some more farting followed by a good beer. Your mouth would drop open
> and hit the ground if you could hear through my ears for ten minutes.
> Betcha had no idea people were that stupid. Remember, the average
> person has an IQ of 100, Koko the Sign Language Gorilla at the
> Smithsonian has scored 91 on that same test. Without the part of the
> human brain that manufactures social illusions, you would not believe
> what the world looks like with all that fog stripped away. It would be
> like Keanu Reeves after he took the red pill.
>
> Stop and "think" about that, Mr. Simulator ... if you can ... "think,"
> that is.
Martin Scriblerus
news:3d02576d$0$3338$272e...@news.execpc.com...
As a free thinking man of action I'd have to say...
..what flavor?
dnashifter
> > Next, could you do something involving sheep ?
> >
> > Cross-dressing sheep, ideally.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Nope, we all know this group needs more erotic Fallout fanfiction.
> Preferable something with Marcus, Sulik, and Cleve.
>
> Thanks!
SPECIAL NEWS BULLETIN:
This just in. We take you now to Hollywood California where a major
deal has just been cut. Renouned director Roman Polanski has just
signed on with Fox Searchlight Productions to release the first
fallout fanfiction story for USENET. Fox Searchlight, known for the
famous The Full Monte, is estatic about the release. It is believed
it will make USENET history. "There will be no use of sheep in this
one," said Polanski, his new wife Hallie Kate Eisenberg on his arm.
"We were on the set when that one was filmed, though. Hallie is still
recovering, although I think the whole thing will enrich our sex
life." Famous posters Marcus and Sulik have signed onboard to costar.
The two left today with big smiles on their faces. "We've never done
something like this before but we are very excited about it," said
Marcus. "I am making an apointment right now at the Frederic Fekkai
Salon. I want to look extra hip in all my close ups," said Sulik.
When reporters at the press conference asked about Cleve staring in
the lead roll Polanski was beaming. "We know he has been difficult to
work with in the past but he is so great we just had to get him."
Cleve, known for his work in Scharmers and Cleve Fuck in the Dungeon
and Cleve Blakemore and the Mexican Circle Jerk, was not available for
comment. "He loves his trailer and we expect he will be retreating
there after his well known tyrades. But he's the best and we know
he's thrilled."
Ben
As he zips up his pants...
How terrified are you of homosexuals, Cleve? I wonder why...
Cleve isn't just retarded, he's a fag!
Ben
> "Ben" <mon...@monkey.com> wrote in message
news:<adlfqh$55u$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> rest like he's having an epileptic fit. A good doctor could spot the
> autism at 200 meters. Were you born this stupid or was it something
> you had to work at?
Who else would you like to transpose your weakness onto? Anyway, Gates
is nothing but a skinny little gayboy, right?
> > Perhaps that's why you obess over genetics so much, like the way
Hitler
> > was such a big fan of Aryans.
>
> Genetics is not a subject, it is the construction code of all life on
> Earth. All other science revolves around it and is subservient to it.
> Science begins and ends with genetics, it is literally the answer to
> every question. Environmentalism is less than a pseudo-science, there
> isn't even enough concrete data to merit calling it a discipline.
> Genetics is a science because it is verifiable with repeatable
> observable experimental data. Environmentalism is somewhere between
> astrology and professional wrestling as a science. Maybe you could
> break the news to Oprah and her audience for me.
Well, that was bizarre. You mean physics, as was mentioned. And no, you
made that up, to head you off at the pass.
> You're a popular culture goofball desperately trying to sound hip and
> not realizing like most of the masses your brain is essentially
> farting dust and fungus spores you're so far behind the intellectual
> power curve. You're stuck in a time loop in the 1930's intellectually
> and you can't escape. That is what happens when you watch too much
> televitz.
Who mentions professional wrestling every other post(oooh, those
muscles!)? Who references The Matrix?
> What is really bugging you is that I don't care about you.
Oddly enough, I told you that you shouldn't. Yet you do. Little retard,
doesn't know how to deal with people. Go live in a group home and clean
toilets. All you are good for. Certainly making a 1994-era computer game
is beyond your talents.
> Ayn Rand. I am so past Ayn Rand. I outgrew her by 2000. I grew beyond
> Rand so quickly.
Actually, no, Randlove was the major theme of your posts for like 4
years there. But you regressed to Rhodesian racism. I guess geocentric
solar system theories are next.
> Ayn Rand was another human flash bang grenade. Freedom without
> homogeneity of culture lasts about 5 seconds before it is taken away.
> Freedom can exist only in a homogenous country based on in-group
> altruism, not universal altruism.
Homogeneity only leads to decline. Fresh stock is required to advance.
And altruism and freedom are unrelated to everything else you've
mentioned.
> There is so much more to the world than market theory.
Actually, the beautiful thing is that there really isn't. That's what
makes it so great. Market theory is one of a handful of social sciences
to be worth a damn. The combination of genetics, sociology, and
psychology have really made very little progress.
> > That's why your made-up dialogue in your stories about working out
> > sounds so stilted, you don't know how normal people talk.
>
> I don't even know what you're talking about and I don't think you do,
> either.
Jesus, it was like a week ago. You had these little stories about people
being impressed by your powerful homosexual attracting muscle tissue. I
think you ended up taking a guy back to your hermatically sealed bunker,
but it all kind of blends together in this incoherently homoerotic mush.
I don't blame you, though, your brain damage makes you the socially
incompetent sociopath that you are. I heard on the radio that a lawyer
might be able to get damages if it was the doctor's fault, though. Maybe
you could hire a real game developer to finish Grimoire with the money.
> You're bad stock, about to be clocked, sealed in rock, zipped into a
> smock, as the rappers say.
Quoting fake rap music. Somebody wants to be cool.
Your largest musical industry consists
> mostly of cultural enrichers singing endlessly about the
> extraordinarily painful way in which they are going to kill you. Your
> own children are the biggest customers for this music. Do you really
> pretend you have a future? I think not.
Yep. A rich and full one.
> You and I don't share any genes worth mentioning buddy, you're a
> self-hating super-effeminate pathetic shell of a man fit to polish
> pork sausage knobs in the reconquista comfort hotel and not much else.
Projection, eh?
> > That's true. Maybe if I made up shit about shark oil and musketballs
> > people would remember me. Oh, and take 8 years to steal the source
code
> > of Wizardy 7.
>
> Or you could make up even less significant sh*t like your posts on
> Usenet.
Your dumb ass, for all your fast reading ability and 'super human'
ability to remember shit you read before(hint: EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT,
EVEN BLACK PEOPLE AND WOMEN), are factually wrong all the time. It's
funny.
> I think you must be kidding. The source code from Wizardry 8 was the
> weirdest overlay clusterfuck I have ever seen.
I said seven, retard. Go back to the sanitarium. I know you enjoyed the
tender ministrations of the male nurses there.
It was worse than
> useless. Why would I steal that code when I am capable of writing
> better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
> over? Wizardry 7 was a pale shadow of what Grimoire will be when it is
> released. Wizardry 7 was John the Baptist. Grimoire is the chosen one.
Chosen to... never be released?
The funniest thing ever, IMO, was Cleve telling his artist to make the
male characters more macho and butch on the Grimoire boards at his
amateurish website. I never really thought about Cleve as a repressed
queer, but he clearly thrists for the freedom of admitting that he likes
the dick. All the evidence is adding up.
Mike Noren
> 'people' like you are diluting the genetic purity of the white race.
I've often said that the best way to improve the master race would be
to gas all nazis.
And that all communists ought to be shot in order to liberate the
working class.
> Wait, so who is running the country?
Don't worry, I just took a short break.
Mike Noren
> Genetics does not determine how we think or what we think about.
That is probably not entirely accurate, depending on what you put into
those words... It seems schizophrenia is hereditary*, for instance,
and there is indication the same is true of some kinds of depression.
*although the genetic definition of 'heredity' is different from what
most probably put into the word, and IMO quite bizarre - genetically
speaking there is no hereditary component to having, say, a heart.
> Environment, upbringing, friends, etc determine how we think and what we
> think about...at best genetics determines intellegence...however, this
> isn't even clear.
None of this is clear, IMO. Personally I suspect genetics lays down a
set of default thought patterns, which are highly, perhaps completely,
modifiable by experience.
> How does physics come into play?
Physics always come into play; you know, chemistry.
Brian H.
"Ykalon Dragon" <yka...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:cdj1gus31l44pqc72...@4ax.com...
> On 7 Jun 2002 07:03:55 -0700, cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore
> The Real One) wrote:
>
>
> >Oh, you're a physicist and yet you've never heard this often proposed
> >hypothesis about the relationship between physics and genetics? Have
> >you read THE BLIND WATCHMAKER?
> >
> >Quantum physics says our perception affects reality itself. Genetics
> >determines how we think and WHAT we can think about. The universe
> >looks the way it does to us first and foremost because of our inherent
> >genetic design. Our genetic makeup has to be understood first before
> >we can make the correct conclusions about physics and our arbitrary
> >approximation of the world around us.
> >
> >Such mental sluggards. Your minds are so imposingly dull and
> >commonplace. Scarcely any wit, lightheartedness or velocity in your
> >ideas and assumptions.
>
> Wrong. Genetics is largely based on hypothesis. Physics are largely
> based on facts.
Cleve thinks that way because he thinks that *he* is the universe.
Everything existed in this world, even Physics, are only perceptions due to
his genetic makeup. He thinks that he is omnipresent in his own tiny
universe and when he dies, the world would cease to exist. He thinks he's
the God.
Now we can understand why Cleve is so inline with Nietszhe. There is no
Science here. Talking Science with Cleve is just like talking Science with
a pile of worms in the shit.
Brian H.
"Xocyll" <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:1e81gu43nclnu6heb...@4ax.com...
>
> Ahh, so we can expect Grimoire sometime _after_ the second coming of
> Christ?
>
After reading all Cleve's posts in these days, I no longer anticipate
Grimoire anymore. Previously I thought it may be a serviceable RPG full of
wits but now I think this game, if ever released, would only be a sick man's
diary. I don't think I will let my brain be poisoned or contaminated by
that.
Brian H.
"Andy" <ausm1dontspa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7i26guoj3qvdtrt54...@4ax.com...
> On 6 Jun 2002 06:23:05 -0700, cle...@iprimus.com.au (Cleve Blakemore
> The Real One) wrote:
>
>
> >I think you must be kidding. The source code from Wizardry 8 was the
> >useless. Why would I steal that code when I am capable of writing
> >better code in C++ than any of that stuff from scratch many times
> >over? Wizardry 7 was a pale shadow of what Grimoire will be when it is
> >released. Wizardry 7 was John the Baptist. Grimoire is the chosen one.
>
> you be sending it out by cd (charging shipping, of course).
>
Never touch Grimoire even if it's free. It's a toxin to the mind.
Brian H.
> dnash...@thevortex.com (dnashifter) wrote in message
news:<83aa70ea.02060...@posting.google.com>...
> <snip>
> That was not a funny thing to write. That was sick and disturbed. It
> wasn't even anything like amusing. You've got all kinds of problems.
I think both you and dnashifter can make a dream team.
James Garvin
>
> While there is much in Rand's work to take issue with I'm not sure one can
> reasonably characterize her or her readers as idiots. Everything interesting
> garners its fair share of kooky supporters, but surely the fanatics do not
> represent the mean. I mean, Allan Greenspan was a devotee at one point. Is
> he an idiot?
Of course not. However, I see Rand as a dark pool. It may look very
deep...and it might be deep, but once you jump in you realize there is
only 2 feet of water....
James Garvin
>
> James Garvin <jgar...@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<3D00C701...@nospam.comcast.net>...
>
> > Genetics does not determine how we think or what we think about.
>
> That is probably not entirely accurate, depending on what you put into
> those words... It seems schizophrenia is hereditary*, for instance,
> and there is indication the same is true of some kinds of depression.
>
> *although the genetic definition of 'heredity' is different from what
> most probably put into the word, and IMO quite bizarre - genetically
> speaking there is no hereditary component to having, say, a heart.
Agreed to a point. Though it isn't clear why some mental illnesses are
passed and some are not...also it is hard to see how a mental illness is
"given" to another generation.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/genesmental.htm is a pretty good paper on
the whole matter (though I don't claim to understand it all...it is
pretty deep and a great read...but some of it is hard to follow unless
you have a strong background in both genetics and in psychology. Which
I don't)
> None of this is clear, IMO. Personally I suspect genetics lays down a
> set of default thought patterns, which are highly, perhaps completely,
> modifiable by experience.
I agree with a "default" personality that is formed (if that is what you
are saying). Though from current reading, this might not even be
true...the blank slaters might be right.
> Physics always come into play; you know, chemistry.
To a point, though it is transparent to the geneticists.
Courageous
>I agree with a "default" personality that is formed (if that is what you
>are saying). Though from current reading, this might not even be
>true...the blank slaters might be right.
Next on your reading list: subject matter from the field of cognitive
anthropology.
C//
Martin Scriblerus
I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but life really could be just
that simple. Humans love to complicate things, but the truth is usually
simpler (and uglier) than we think it is.
James Garvin
;-)
Lucian Wischik
>Of course not. However, I see Rand as a dark pool. It may look very
>deep...and it might be deep, but once you jump in you realize there is
>only 2 feet of water....
Nietzsche: "women are not deep; they are not even shallow"
James G: "Rand is not deep; only 2 feet of water"
Cleve: "Nietzsche is great, Rand is rubbish"
James, I think you're turning into a Cleve...
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
James Garvin
>
> James Garvin <jgar...@nospam.comcast.net> wrote:
> >Of course not. However, I see Rand as a dark pool. It may look very
> >deep...and it might be deep, but once you jump in you realize there is
> >only 2 feet of water....
>
> Nietzsche: "women are not deep; they are not even shallow"
> James G: "Rand is not deep; only 2 feet of water"
> Cleve: "Nietzsche is great, Rand is rubbish"
>
> James, I think you're turning into a Cleve...
AAAAAARRRGGGG!!! NOOO!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!! *sob* I take it all
back...Rand is the best! ;-)
El Ravager
<bh1234...@nospam.please.ismart.net> wrote:
>
>"Cleve Blakemore The Real One" <cle...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>news:181db1cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
>> Ykalon Dragon <yka...@softhome.net> wrote in message
>news:<oivpfuo2jj9gsmohe...@4ax.com>...
>> > I think he will cancel it. At least he should if he's a man of his
>> > word. He seems to hate plagiarists. So releasing a carbon copy of
>> > Wizardry 7 should make him a plagiarist too.
>>
>> You're out of your mind. Grimoire is almost finished and it is a
>> fantastic game.
>>
>> Grimoire is hardly a carbon copy of Wizardry 7 - it's about ten times
>> as good as Wizardry 6 & 7.
>>
>> First came Dune. Then somebody took the RTS genre and came out with
>> C&C and then Warcarft. Grimoire takes Wizardry and similar games as a
>> genre and seeks to be the best of the bunch ever. It is not a copy of
>> anything.
>
>Your game should have been released if you have above average IQ.
>
Therein lies the problem.. his sub-par intelligence (think
chimpanzee) has compelled his mouth to write checks his ability can't
cover.
- El Rav