Morrowind...Overhyped?
-
It seems (to me), Bethesda sells their products on a lot of hype and
marketing- I almost think they write a bunch of check "donations" to
all the sites.
Their titles sell like hotcakes in the beginning and then the all the
bugs start to appear. Followed by a bunch of "Pathesda sux" posts. I
mean, is this the Holy Grail of Computer Games? All the reviewers not
really finding anything wrong with the game other than "graphic"
requirements?
So what are your thoughts? Will History repeat itself?
***one small observation:
In the movie previews, is it just me or do the towns & landscape look
highly detailed- but barren? I guess games like EQ, AC, or UO have
spoiled me. When I go into a town/city- I want to see people all over
the place. Not just 2-3 walking around- with one or two people in
major buildings. bah- maybe that is the problem. Online Games allow
much better Interaction. No canned scripts here (i.e "Sow Me", "Vas
Flam", "Wot lvl are you?")...you see what I mean :)
bah- not trying to flame...I'm buying this regardless- heh. I just
hope Bethesda has given this the proper Development_time it deserves.
Later!
Adam West
>I've read a bunch of "glowing" reviews and nothing "negative".
>It seems (to me), Bethesda sells their products on a lot of hype and
>marketing- I almost think they write a bunch of check "donations" to
>all the sites.
>So what are your thoughts? Will History repeat itself?
Overhyped? Certainly. But I'm still betting it will be less buggy than prior
attempts. Alright, that's not saying much. How about this: I'm betting it will
be a bug free as any other game this year. Alright, that' s not saying much
either.
Say... I'm beginning to think our standards are lower. Therefore, even if they
had the same amount of bugs as prior games, would we notice? That's the better
question.
Bumper
noman
"Adam West" <ad...@spamproof.runesword.com> wrote in message
news:R52n8.135778$1g.10...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> Say... I'm beginning to think our standards are lower. Therefore, even
if they
> had the same amount of bugs as prior games, would we notice? That's
the better
> question.
If Morrowind comes out with the same amount of problems that
Daggerfall had on release, then noticing them won't be an issue. Darn
thing may not even run to begin with.
--
Noman, who never got Daggerfall demo working
Crawfish Fiesta
news:789p9ukbq95m3nh1c...@4ax.com...
> I've read a bunch of "glowing" reviews and nothing "negative".
> It seems (to me), Bethesda sells their products on a lot of hype and
> marketing-
What company doesn't sell their products on a lot of hype and marketing?
> Their titles sell like hotcakes in the beginning and then the all the
> bugs start to appear. Followed by a bunch of "Pathesda sux" posts.
Although buggy at original release, Arena and Daggerfall were groundbreaking
and excellent games in many respects. This is hardly a reputation for
Bethesda to be embarrassed about.
> mean, is this the Holy Grail of Computer Games? All the reviewers not
> really finding anything wrong with the game other than "graphic"
> requirements?
Of course it won't be the Holy Grail of Computer Games. It's a real
product, with tons of limitations and design decisions that some players
won't like. The official game forums are full of people listing their
disappointments over various features that were either dropped or left out
from the get go (NPCs can't sit or lay down, there are no children in the
world, there's no climbing, you can't become a werewolf, you can't become
mayor of a town, the world is much smaller than in their previous games,
etc). If you believe that any game will be God's gift to gaming, you're
going to be disappointed. But so long as you have reasonable expectations
(i.e. should be a fun game to play with for a good length of time), this
game will be as cool as anything else that's coming out.
Jooks
hightened due to the fact that xboxes wont be able to download tons of
patches
"Adam West" <ad...@spamproof.runesword.com> wrote in message
news:R52n8.135778$1g.10...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Olaf
> It seems (to me), Bethesda sells their products on a lot of hype and
> marketing- I almost think they write a bunch of check "donations" to
> all the sites.
Well, they certainly are hyping the living shit out of this game. I have
never seen so many previews appear via the web in a 2 week period for *any*
game.
> Their titles sell like hotcakes in the beginning and then the all the
> bugs start to appear. Followed by a bunch of "Pathesda sux" posts. I
> mean, is this the Holy Grail of Computer Games? All the reviewers not
> really finding anything wrong with the game other than "graphic"
> requirements?
Well, I havent played the preview copy...but how likely is it that *all* of
these reviewers were somehow bribed or snowed?
> So what are your thoughts? Will History repeat itself?
I dont think so. I think the fact that they are developing it
simultaneously for the Xbox means there will be a lot less bugs in the PC
version, gameplay bugs that is.
> ***one small observation:
> In the movie previews, is it just me or do the towns & landscape look
> highly detailed- but barren? I guess games like EQ, AC, or UO have
> spoiled me. When I go into a town/city- I want to see people all over
> the place. Not just 2-3 walking around- with one or two people in
> major buildings. bah- maybe that is the problem. Online Games allow
> much better Interaction. No canned scripts here (i.e "Sow Me", "Vas
> Flam", "Wot lvl are you?")...you see what I mean :)
The previews look AWESOME, IMO. The water effect is incredible, and the
shadows and weather effects are the best ever, that I have seen. The only
thing I have a problem with, and this is 100% subjective, is that the
models I have seen, of the chars and monsters, very rarely look right to
me. Like their art department just has different opinions of what looks
cool than my own. The landscapes, architecture, weather, and everything
else though, look top notch to me.
> bah- not trying to flame...I'm buying this regardless- heh. I just
> hope Bethesda has given this the proper Development_time it deserves.
Maybe I have fallen victim to the hype machines, but damn I want this game
BAD!
olaf
Kyle Roberts
> It seems (to me), Bethesda sells their products on a lot of hype and
> marketing- I almost think they write a bunch of check "donations" to
> all the sites.
>
> Their titles sell like hotcakes in the beginning and then the all the
> bugs start to appear. Followed by a bunch of "Pathesda sux" posts. I
> mean, is this the Holy Grail of Computer Games? All the reviewers not
> really finding anything wrong with the game other than "graphic"
> requirements?
Those aren't "Reviews", those are "Previews" based on playing a Beta copy.
The fact the Morrowind is also an Xbox game is a very good thing. Bethesda
can not release and will not be allowed by MS to release a product that is
full of bugs. So this benefits the PC gamers in giving us a more bug free
game. Will it have bugs? Of course, it would be impossible to squash them
all in a game of this complexity. Will it be in the same state that
Daggerfall was in upon release? I seriously doubt it.
Kyle
random
"Kyle Roberts" <pkro...@REMOVEbellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:iO4n8.163465$Nn6.8...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> Those aren't "Reviews", those are "Previews" based on playing a Beta copy.
> The fact the Morrowind is also an Xbox game is a very good thing. Bethesda
> can not release and will not be allowed by MS to release a product that is
> full of bugs. So this benefits the PC gamers in giving us a more bug free
> game. Will it have bugs? Of course, it would be impossible to squash them
> all in a game of this complexity. Will it be in the same state that
> Daggerfall was in upon release? I seriously doubt it.
I wouldn't count on MS to do much quality control policing... Just look at
their track record. ;)
random
Arcana
news:Ne2n8.107546$q2.10290@sccrnsc01...
> Noman, who never got Daggerfall demo working
Aha.
--
Arcana, who finished Daggerfall (the full game) three times.
Andreas Koch
- wrote:
> In the movie previews, is it just me or do the towns & landscape look
> highly detailed- but barren? I guess games like EQ, AC, or UO have
> spoiled me.
Uhm, if people demand high-polygon actors, they will get them - at
the cost that there aren't thousands of them. Same as with 3D -
2D graphics like UO allow a lot more of small stuff & critters
on the screen.
--
Andreas
To spam me by mail, please add NOSPAM to my
email address.
Jochen Heistermann
I guess it will be not as buggy as Daggerfall and will be playable out
of the box. The gameplay will be exciting for the first 20+ hours, then
the question is whether it will get tedious and monotonous or give
some new challenges. BG2 managed to keep the game intesting with
a lot of variations concerning the gameworld (very different locations),
Daggerfall for example was very repetitive.
My expectations: a good game with hundreds of hours of gameplay, but
probable repetitive after some time.
Jochen
Lucian Wischik
>Well, they certainly are hyping the living shit out of this game. I have
>never seen so many previews appear via the web in a 2 week period for *any*
>game.
I don't count previews as Bethseda's hype. I count it as websites and fans
that are desperate for news and screenshots and reviews -- i.e. I count
them as our *own* hype, not Bethseda's.
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Lucian Wischik
>Uhm, if people demand high-polygon actors, they will get them - at
>the cost that there aren't thousands of them.
I agree, and hate it. I think people should stick to below 800 polys per
model for the time being, and concentrate on getting lots more of them on
screen. Every time I see a review praising the high-number of polys per
character, I think the reviewer is being ignorant unless it's also
accompanied by a criticism of the low number of characters on screen.
Myros
All these gaming sites write their articles on their own initiative, using
their own judgement. Nobody is paying them to write these glowing reviews.
I honestly havent seen much actual company hype at all from Bethseda, a
couple of press releases and a couple of movie releases is about it over the
past 6 months, not nearly as much hype as I have seen for many other games.
You can hardly blame bethseda if a bunch of gaming sites decide to hype
their product up ... though Im guessing they dont mind in the least ;)
Myros
http://www.neuralgrid.com
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James Garvin
>
> I've read a bunch of "glowing" reviews and nothing "negative".
> It seems (to me), Bethesda sells their products on a lot of hype and
> marketing- I almost think they write a bunch of check "donations" to
> all the sites.
I donno any site that give a glowing review to a game that hasn't even
gone gold isn't worth listening to.
> Their titles sell like hotcakes in the beginning and then the all the
> bugs start to appear. Followed by a bunch of "Pathesda sux" posts. I
> mean, is this the Holy Grail of Computer Games? All the reviewers not
> really finding anything wrong with the game other than "graphic"
> requirements?
They are good games...Daggerfall was fine after a little tinkering ;-)
> So what are your thoughts? Will History repeat itself?
Yup...I'm betting on a big bug fest...but a huge patch that will come
out QUICKLY will solve most problems...
> ***one small observation:
> In the movie previews, is it just me or do the towns & landscape look
> highly detailed- but barren? I guess games like EQ, AC, or UO have
> spoiled me. When I go into a town/city- I want to see people all over
> the place. Not just 2-3 walking around- with one or two people in
> major buildings. bah- maybe that is the problem. Online Games allow
> much better Interaction. No canned scripts here (i.e "Sow Me", "Vas
> Flam", "Wot lvl are you?")...you see what I mean :)
Ug...Not to mention "A/S/L?", "GROUP!!! I NEED GROUP!!!", "IM L33T
HaX0R!! I ST33l you sh33t good!1111!!!!!111"
> bah- not trying to flame...I'm buying this regardless- heh. I just
> hope Bethesda has given this the proper Development_time it deserves.
I think it should be good...I have a feeling it will be something like
Gothic (peoplewise) and something like BG2 (plotwise)
--
James Garvin
bo...@nmt.edu
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Olaf
news:a7n3ku$if7$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> Olaf <ola...@swbell.net> wrote:
> >Well, they certainly are hyping the living shit out of this game. I
have
> >never seen so many previews appear via the web in a 2 week period for
*any*
> >game.
>
> I don't count previews as Bethseda's hype. I count it as websites and
fans
> that are desperate for news and screenshots and reviews -- i.e. I count
> them as our *own* hype, not Bethseda's.
When there are 20 previews in a 10 day period, I think the publisher has
something to do with it.
olaf
Lucian Wischik
>> I don't count previews as Bethseda's hype. I count it as websites and
>> fans that are desperate for news and screenshots and reviews -- i.e. I
>> count them as our *own* hype, not Bethseda's.
>When there are 20 previews in a 10 day period, I think the publisher has
>something to do with it.
Imagine if Bethseda had done exactly the same act (distribute previews to
previewsers) and they had all written, "This is a dull game with weak
gameplay and lousy graphics." You wouldn't call this hype, I presume?
Therefore, you'd suggest that either Bethseda are hyping or not hyping,
even though they perform exactly the same act in both cases, and the
difference is purely in how people receive the game! That's just weird.
Fate of Nations
> probable repetitive after some time.
>
> Jochen
>
The latter part of that sentence described every computer game ever written.
--
Fate
Knight37
> there are no children in the world
I'm trying to think of a downside to this one but so far... nope.
Oh wait, that means I can't get the "Child Killer" reputation.
Damn. Oh well. At least Postal 2 won't let me down. ;P
--
Knight37
"Innocence torn from me without your shelter.
Barred reality. I'm living blindly!"
-- Metallica "Dyers Eve"
Knight37
> remember this is an xbox title too and I a assuming the quality
> assurance is hightened due to the fact that xboxes wont be able to
> download tons of patches
Xbox is capable of following the "release-now-patch-later" methodology of
gaming. It comes with an ethernet adapter and a hard drive. I certainly
hope MS doesn't allow this to happen, though.
--
Knight37
"A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
'The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign'
Blame is better to give than receive"
-- Rush "Free Will"
James Garvin
>
> "Jooks" <mon...@optonline.net> had the moxy to write:
>
> > remember this is an xbox title too and I a assuming the quality
> > assurance is hightened due to the fact that xboxes wont be able to
> > download tons of patches
>
> Xbox is capable of following the "release-now-patch-later" methodology of
> gaming. It comes with an ethernet adapter and a hard drive. I certainly
> hope MS doesn't allow this to happen, though.
I don't think MS can allow it to happen...(Unless the PS2 suddenly dies,
then they can do it)
Olaf
> Olaf <ola...@swbell.net> wrote:
> >> I don't count previews as Bethseda's hype. I count it as websites and
> >> fans that are desperate for news and screenshots and reviews -- i.e. I
> >> count them as our *own* hype, not Bethseda's.
> >When there are 20 previews in a 10 day period, I think the publisher has
> >something to do with it.
>
> Imagine if Bethseda had done exactly the same act (distribute previews to
> previewsers) and they had all written, "This is a dull game with weak
> gameplay and lousy graphics." You wouldn't call this hype, I presume?
A publisher would not ship dozens of beta preview copies if they felt that
the game would give a poor impression. So this analogy is invalid.
> Therefore, you'd suggest that either Bethseda are hyping or not hyping,
> even though they perform exactly the same act in both cases, and the
> difference is purely in how people receive the game! That's just weird.
I am suggesting that the blitz of previews for the game, that all read the
exact same, we are seeing now was part of plan orchestrated by their
marketing department and carried out by delivering a version of the game
that shows exactly what they want it to show, to a pre-screened group of
websites.
olaf
S. Tanry
> Lucian Wischik <ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
>
>> Therefore, you'd suggest that either Bethseda are hyping or not
>> hyping, even though they perform exactly the same act in both
>> cases, and the difference is purely in how people receive the
>> game! That's just weird.
>>
>
> I am suggesting that the blitz of previews for the game, that all
> read the exact same, we are seeing now was part of plan
> orchestrated by their marketing department and carried out by
> delivering a version of the game that shows exactly what they want
> it to show, to a pre-screened group of websites.
>
> olaf
Well, that's just paranoid bullshit. They delivered the same game to
everyone, and the game doesn't have limitations in place. One site put
god mode and flying on and went to several highlevel areas and far away
towns to take screenshots. The game always starts the same, and
naturally, there is a common way in place for players to progress at the
beginning. So of course most of the previews take this way, thus leading
to similar results. I also dislike the first post in this thread that
thinks everyone was bought off. Gee, Bethesda sent off preview copies to
everyone at the same time, so it only makes sense that most of them
would actually preview it around the same time, don't it?
--
-S. Tanry
-
encapsulate "just" Bethesda products). Buying off Gamesites with $$$
doesn't happen (at least I hope not). But buying a Gamesite off with
exclusives does happen (at least I think so). So it bodes well for
some sites to sugar-coat a preview or review.
Bethesda seems to put out very few titles- when they do, they are
pretty buggy. Yeah- eventually, they get a game to a playable state.
Gamespot pointed out that they crashed to desktop a few times and I
would have thought that other sites would have experienced similar
problems. Some other sites wrote previews that were as flawless as
reading the back of the box.
Previews are favorable "tilts" no matter how you look at it. Read past
previews- and then compare to the final reviews. How well does the
final product live up to the original preview?
Sorry you disliked my first message, but I fail to see your point of
"Gee, Bethesda sent off preview copies to everyone at the same time,
so it only makes sense that most of them would actually preview it
around the same time, don't it?" ...not sure what you meant other than
the obvious?
Anyway- no worries. Like I said- I'm buying this game regardless
(can't wait). Though I am bummed thieves won't be able to climb
walls. And no horses!!! Arrrgggghhh...I'm still waiting for a game
where during a battle, I can make a quick retreat and scale up a
wall- drop to the other side- and gallop away on my Horse "Cupcake"
...ummm I mean "Skullcrusher"...ya!
On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:35:31 -0500, "S. Tanry" <sta...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Steve
"Knight37" <knig...@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91DC7AE82...@216.148.53.82...
> "Jooks" <mon...@optonline.net> had the moxy to write:
>
> > remember this is an xbox title too and I a assuming the quality
> > assurance is hightened due to the fact that xboxes wont be able to
> > download tons of patches
>
> Xbox is capable of following the "release-now-patch-later" methodology of
> gaming. It comes with an ethernet adapter and a hard drive. I certainly
> hope MS doesn't allow this to happen, though.
>
than you can patch a game on a PS2 or GameCube. The reason why you can't is
simple, unlike a PC, the game is never installed on the hard drive! MS won't
allow developers to install a game onto the hard drive. So despite that fact
that the XBox has a harddrive, it works very similar to any other console
that doesn't have a hard drive. So if you want to patch a console game (even
an XBox game), you'd have to send everyone a new disc (remember GT2?). The
harddrive was intended for game saves, add-ons (ie. extra cars, tracks,
levels, sounds/music, etc.).
Barbarian X
"Steve" <no_t...@nope.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:ac%n8.14571$R8.12...@carnaval.risq.qc.ca...
>
> Unless I'm seriously mistaken, you cannot patch a game on the XBox no more
> than you can patch a game on a PS2 or GameCube. The reason why you can't
is
> simple, unlike a PC, the game is never installed on the hard drive! MS
won't
> allow developers to install a game onto the hard drive. So despite that
fact
> that the XBox has a harddrive, it works very similar to any other console
> that doesn't have a hard drive. So if you want to patch a console game
(even
> an XBox game), you'd have to send everyone a new disc (remember GT2?). The
> harddrive was intended for game saves, add-ons (ie. extra cars, tracks,
> levels, sounds/music, etc.).
>
AFAIK, XBox saves game data to the hard drive as well as swap files.
And I HAVE read somewhere that it would be able to patch a game too, IF the
coders of the game have programmed it to look for patches on the HD of
course.
/S
Ykalon Dragon
<n...@valid.adress.com> wrote:
>
>AFAIK, XBox saves game data to the hard drive as well as swap files.
>And I HAVE read somewhere that it would be able to patch a game too, IF the
>coders of the game have programmed it to look for patches on the HD of
>course.
>
>/S
>
Sort of how the override directory in the BG games work. You instruct
the game to look in the overrides folder first-
Reply to ykalon at subdimension dot com
Memnoch
>"Crawfish Fiesta" <kpet...@nyc.rr.com> had the moxy to write:
>
>> there are no children in the world
>
>I'm trying to think of a downside to this one but so far... nope.
>
>Oh wait, that means I can't get the "Child Killer" reputation.
>
>Damn. Oh well. At least Postal 2 won't let me down. ;P
Will there be cows though. ;-)
Knight37
>
> "Knight37" <knig...@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91DC7AE82...@216.148.53.82...
>> "Jooks" <mon...@optonline.net> had the moxy to write:
>>
>> > remember this is an xbox title too and I a assuming the quality
>> > assurance is hightened due to the fact that xboxes wont be able to
>> > download tons of patches
>>
>> Xbox is capable of following the "release-now-patch-later"
>> methodology of gaming. It comes with an ethernet adapter and a hard
>> drive. I certainly hope MS doesn't allow this to happen, though.
>>
> Unless I'm seriously mistaken, you cannot patch a game on the XBox no
> more than you can patch a game on a PS2 or GameCube. The reason why
> you can't is simple, unlike a PC, the game is never installed on the
> hard drive! MS won't allow developers to install a game onto the hard
> drive. So despite that fact that the XBox has a harddrive, it works
> very similar to any other console that doesn't have a hard drive. So
> if you want to patch a console game (even an XBox game), you'd have to
> send everyone a new disc (remember GT2?). The harddrive was intended
> for game saves, add-ons (ie. extra cars, tracks, levels, sounds/music,
> etc.).
That's not correct. First of all, there is already one XBOX game that
installs large portions of code and game data to the hard drive the first
time you play it, for performance reasons. The game in question is Dead or
Alive 3. Second of all, you could work out a method to patch the code and
only save the patched portion of the code on the hard drive. For example,
if you need to patch a file, you have a directory on the hard drive that
takes a priority and the patched version of that file will get loaded from
that directory before it hunts for the file on the DVD. You could even work
out a method that only stores the patch difference file itself to the hard
drive and applies that patch to the code in MEMORY each time the game loads
(this of course, could make the game take too long to load, it just depends
on how much patching it's doing).
In a nutshell, since Xbox has a hard drive and a means of downloading
patches to that hard drive over the net, it's possible to patch games for
that system if the games are written in such a way to allow it.
Now of course, if Microsoft is smart, they'll make sure this isn't abused,
and they'll make sure they give new games a rigorous QA period before
allowing a game company to put the "made for xbox" label on the game. The
last thing Microsoft needs for XBOX is a reputation that the games aren't
stable on release much like the PC games are plagued with now.
--
Knight37
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human
world, where none suffered. Where everyone would be happy. It was a
disaster.
-- Agent Smith, "The Matrix"