DaggerFall (some bitterness is gone...)
Douglas J. Rener
O.K- I know I have posted a bunch of sarcastic posts on the issue of
Daggerfall. This post is sort of an apology...
Since playing the game more in depth- it is finally getting
pretty addicting. Of course I keep recreating characters because I am
fine tuning the skill system for my character.
That isn't to say that the game isn't:
1) Buggy - even though Bethesda claims it was rock solid.
2) Dungeons are too large.
3) NPC's are still cutouts (but better than Arena ...)
3) The companion book outright sucks (big waste of money.)
4) Still don't agree with the Comp USA exclusive.
That said- it is a pretty fun game and suspends belief a lot. I
have to agree with the other posts- if you hated the game at first
(like I did), stick with it a little while more and you will see a
world unfold- and grow richer as you play....
I guess I felt jaded after hearing Bethesda brag about how great, bug
free, and huge the game was...
L8ter
Joe Sislow
Douglas J. Rener wrote:
> That isn't to say that the game isn't:
>
> 1) Buggy - even though Bethesda claims it was rock solid.
> 2) Dungeons are too large.
> 3) NPC's are still cutouts (but better than Arena ...)
> 3) The companion book outright sucks (big waste of money.)
I disagree with this on one count...some of the information
is quite helpful (how to get into guilds, formulas for things),
but on the whole the fragment sentences lead me to believe that
they just chopped up the design document and put pieces into a
book that they could get $20 a pop for...I mean, they give the
values of various Soul gems without actually explaining them
at all, and they have sentences that sound like programmer
pseudocode "Three days after the triggering theft or break in,
spawn the Thieves Guild joining quest."
It does function quite well as a template for aspiring and
experienced designers alike.
Of course, you could go on to say:
- Automap needs help
- Quests should have a bit more guidance (if I'm supposed to
talk to people in three cities, shouldn't people there give
me SOME indication that I'm on the right track and not just
doing random quests?)
- Better interface for telling you that clicking on objects
actually DOES something! After switching to look mode and
checking out ten or so objects, I had decided that it was
useless. All I got was a) nothing, or b) "You are too far
away..." Then I manage to figure out that in the starting
dungeon, you need to click on the altar in the room with the
bookshelves in the corner to open the secret door. Nice touch,
but how the hell was I supposed to know? Some indication that
actually clicking on objects does something would have been
nice.
- Why have 4 modes when I can look at, grab, and talk to a
person and all that happens is that I talk to them?
- Something to do without a quest...every time I pick a random
dungeon or cemetery to visit...they seem to be fairly small...
of course I could just have bad luck. Actual exploration seems
to play a pretty small part in the game.
- 450MB install and all the towns are fundamentally the same?
No varied houses based upon region?
And one bug to ask about:
- Do the signs and rumors work for anyone the way that they're
outlined in the Daggerfall Chronicles? The only rumors/news
I get from people is "So&so fell from power, long live so&so"
or something to that effect...and the signs mostly just say
the name of the town...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Sislow, Designer / Producer
Millennium RUSH, LLC
"It's like the man says, 'There's no problems, only soultions.'"
- Jeff Bridges, TRON
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Desslock
Joe Sislow wrote:
><snip>
>
> Of course, you could go on to say:
>
> dungeon, you need to click on the altar in the room with the
> bookshelves in the corner to open the secret door. Nice touch,
> but how the hell was I supposed to know? Some indication that
> actually clicking on objects does something would have been
> nice.
Agreed. I use the view mode and click on everything, just to be safe.
> - Why have 4 modes when I can look at, grab, and talk to a
> person and all that happens is that I talk to them?
Talk and grab are particularly redundant
> - 450MB install and all the towns are fundamentally the same?
> No varied houses based upon region?
You're wrong here - check out the middle eastern style architecture in
places like Sentinel. There definitely is some eye candy in Daggerfall.
> And one bug to ask about:
>
> - Do the signs and rumors work for anyone the way that they're
> outlined in the Daggerfall Chronicles? The only rumors/news
> I get from people is "So&so fell from power, long live so&so"
> or something to that effect...and the signs mostly just say
> the name of the town...
Haven't read the hint book - but clicking on signs in towns will
sometimes just give you the name of the town, but othertimes will give
you a message (i.e. allied with another town, etc.)
Neal Ensor
Joe Sislow wrote:
>
> Douglas J. Rener wrote:
> > That isn't to say that the game isn't:
> >
> > 1) Buggy - even though Bethesda claims it was rock solid.
> > 2) Dungeons are too large.
> > 3) NPC's are still cutouts (but better than Arena ...)
> > 3) The companion book outright sucks (big waste of money.)
> Of course, you could go on to say:
>
> - Automap needs help
Gotta agree there, looks neat the first couple of times, but in a large
dungeon, this just gets nuts... Direct overhead is more useful, but you
have to be careful with rotation or panning, as stuff moves a little too
quickly...
> - Quests should have a bit more guidance (if I'm supposed to
> talk to people in three cities, shouldn't people there give
> me SOME indication that I'm on the right track and not just
> doing random quests?)
> - Better interface for telling you that clicking on objects
> actually DOES something! After switching to look mode and
> checking out ten or so objects, I had decided that it was
> useless. All I got was a) nothing, or b) "You are too far
> away..." Then I manage to figure out that in the starting
> dungeon, you need to click on the altar in the room with the
> bookshelves in the corner to open the secret door. Nice touch,
> but how the hell was I supposed to know? Some indication that
> actually clicking on objects does something would have been
> nice.
How about a click in "info" mode giving you a line of text, like
"a very ugly monster" or "some old moldy books". Gives a little
atmosphere.
> - Why have 4 modes when I can look at, grab, and talk to a
> person and all that happens is that I talk to them?
Hmm, what WOULD happen if you "grab" someone? ;) Why the possibilities
are limitless! ;)
> - Something to do without a quest...every time I pick a random
> dungeon or cemetery to visit...they seem to be fairly small...
> of course I could just have bad luck. Actual exploration seems
> to play a pretty small part in the game.
This game's awefully large to be 'stumbling around' in, which is nice on
one hand. However, I'd like to get more NPC interaction, like person X
mentioning 'hey I heard there's a haunted crypt nearby...' or something
like that. Maybe this happens, if one's reputation/personality isn't
weak... Seems nobody likes to talk to Dark Elves.. ;)
> - 450MB install and all the towns are fundamentally the same?
> No varied houses based upon region?
Actually, travel to another region, say Sentinel, and you'll see some
degree of change in the architectural styles of the houses... At least
the outsides and structures change.
> And one bug to ask about:
>
> - Do the signs and rumors work for anyone the way that they're
> outlined in the Daggerfall Chronicles? The only rumors/news
> I get from people is "So&so fell from power, long live so&so"
> or something to that effect...and the signs mostly just say
> the name of the town...
I have seen signs in some small town that stated 'Persons from X will be
prosecuted' or some such. Don't know how that worked in, though... I
don't get any juicy rumors either, but perhaps that's tied to
fame/personality.
As buggy as this game is, it's still a blast, IMHO. I might start
another character, though; the armor restrictions on battlemages are a
real drag. :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Sislow, Designer / Producer
> Millennium RUSH, LLC
>
> "It's like the man says, 'There's no problems, only soultions.'"
> - Jeff Bridges, TRON
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nekros the Black
Battlemage
aka Neal Ensor (en...@turnharp.com)
Douglas Rener
> That said- it is a pretty fun game and suspends belief a lot. I
>have to agree with the other posts- if you hated the game at first
>(like I did), stick with it a little while more and you will see a
>world unfold- and grow richer as you play....
Wooops, I take it all back.
The game went back tonight. I got sick of the same dungeon crawls.
The first two were fun (but long,) the third I couldn't finish because
even though I was looking for something different, It still felt like
"goto dungeon A, find B, then take to C"
(back to Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games....)
I am hoping that 3d Realms, or Lucas Arts attempts a true RPG. It will
blow Daggerfall away!!!!
L8ter
Don Nalezyty
Howdy Neal,
Don at Bethesda here. I'm glad to here you're enjoying DaggerFall.
Since I'm the project leader on TES III, I'll keep your ideas in mind.
I'm hoping to re-work the dungeon creation system so the dungeon feel
better and smaller.
The Daggerfall Patch is available at our website and most of the
online services...
Happy adventuring!
Don Nalezyty
dnal...@mail.bethsoft.com
d...@bethsoft.com
jarvinen
> Don at Bethesda here. I'm glad to here you're enjoying DaggerFall.
>Since I'm the project leader on TES III, I'll keep your ideas in mind.
>I'm hoping to re-work the dungeon creation system so the dungeon feel
>better and smaller.
Hmm.... since you've announced that you are the project leader for TES III, I
have a couple of questions:
1. Will it be SVGA?
2. Will it use a different engine?
3. When's the release date? (multiple :} here)
4. How big is your mailbox?
Dick
------------------------------------------------------
jarv...@proaxis.com "T.W.I.G.T.D.T.W.Y.C.Q.M."
maintainer of the Unofficial Master of Magic Home Page
http://www.proaxis.com/~jarvinen/magic/magic.shtml
Don Nalezyty
Howdy,
Don again. I have opened a can of worms haven't I? <G>
Dick wrote:
>1. Will it be SVGA?
The immeadiate answer is: it's one of my top priorities, chances are
very high.
>2. Will it use a different engine?
It will use a slightly updated version of the XnGine.
>3. When's the release date? (multiple :} here)
Not determined yet, hopefully '97.
>4. How big is your mailbox?
Well, I only have about 20mg free on the HD on my mail machine...
Later,
Don
Thomas Ruschak
In article <5333fs$8...@news3.digex.net> Don Nalezyty <dnal...@mail.bethsoft.com> writes:
>Howdy Neal,
>
> Don at Bethesda here. I'm glad to here you're enjoying DaggerFall.
>Since I'm the project leader on TES III, I'll keep your ideas in mind.
>I'm hoping to re-work the dungeon creation system so the dungeon feel
>better and smaller.
Yes! I don't mind random dungeons, but at least make them SMALL
random dungeons, not giant 4-d pretzels consisting of 1,000,006 miles of
corridors... Sheesh.. spend some time making up more building blocks,
and eliminate some of the damn corridors...
Tom
--
-- I don't know why I did it,
I don't know why I enjoyed it,
and I don't know why I'd do it again! -Bart
jarvinen
>>1. Will it be SVGA?
>
>very high.
I would suggest that you point out to any SVGA-nay-sayers that they to have to
respond to all customers who bitch if comes out in VGA.
>>2. Will it use a different engine?
>
> It will use a slightly updated version of the XnGine.
Slightly updated is OK; largely bug-fixed is much better.
>>3. When's the release date? (multiple :} here)
>
> Not determined yet, hopefully '97.
:} :} :} :} :} :}
>>4. How big is your mailbox?
>
> Well, I only have about 20mg free on the HD on my mail machine...
Last week I sent an email to te...@bethsoft.com and it bounced because my mail
server said the mailbox was full! Sent it again, just make sure I had the
address and everything OK; bounced back, mailbox full!! Never saw that before,
never seen it since.
John Bauer
Douglas J. Rener wrote:
>
> 4) Still don't agree with the Comp USA exclusive.
> You can download the CompUSA patch on the web from a site called Daggerweb.
Just look it up under Yahoo.
See Ya,
Johnbo
Jochen Heistermann
Don Nalezyty (dnal...@mail.bethsoft.com) wrote:
: Howdy,
:
: Don again. I have opened a can of worms haven't I? <G>
Hi Don!
I sent mail to the tech@... address and it bounces.
My problem is a special bug: When I get this "kill some rats/bats/bears"
quests I can enter the location, the monsters are there, but they are
invisible. This has been reported by other people too, but not from
everyone. Can you help?
By the way, Daggerfall brings some fresh wind into the games szene.
Contrary to the trend to release games that can be played through
in 10-15 hours (Phantasmagoria, Full Throttle) Daggerfall leaves
me with the choice what to do. Its amazing to read how different
characters the people use. its further amazing that the players do
completely different things in the games world.
Thanks for making Daggerfall - it will be a keeper on my hard disk
for a long time to come (and maybe with the fourth patch or so all
customers are satisfied).
Ciao
Jochen
--